 Hey, we are really excited. We've been talking about this now for a couple of weeks, but we have the man himself, Tony Bell here from us. Fundraising Academy is partnering with the nonprofit show to sponsor our Friday Ask and Answers. If you've been watching this show, you know that this is really, I think for both my co-host and I, Jared Ransom, our favorite day, because we are fascinated by the questions that come in. We don't always have the same answer or the same approach. And so it's really great to get an expert in to talk with us. Again, we would not be here without our sponsors that help us along this journey and Fundraising Academy certainly a cornerstone of this. So Tony Bell, you're not just a pretty face. You come to us with some real gravitas and knowledge and you are really somebody who understands so much of what the nonprofit sector deals with and you are involved in the educational space. So that even brings, I think, more of an opportunity for us to learn from you. So here's Tony's information. Again, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. And I say, let's get into it, my friend. I was just going to mention though, because you mentioned Jarrett and I do miss having the nonprofit nerd here today as part of our conversation. So just a shout out to Jarrett and much appreciation for what she brings to the sector in partnership with you, Julia. So just quick shout out to her before we jump into these questions. She is an amazing human being, amazing, amazing, lot of fun, crazy smart. And I won't always be doing this with Tony. So there'll be episodes where she's working with you and we'll go back and forth because I think we all have to become at this from such different places. And that's what makes it fun for me. And if I can say just real quickly, I mean, part of the reason why the fundraising academy would be interested in partnering with you and helping to make sure that these conversations happen, but part of it is, we are very committed to professional development and in the nonprofit space. And our curriculum at the fundraising academy is very specific. It's a very specific lane of professional development. It is relationship driven fundraising, right? It's cause selling. So our partnership here allows us to support conversations outside of that lane. So even though we might talk about cause selling and get some questions around, specifically around fundraising, this partnership and this particular, this partnership allows the fundraising academy to help support and elevate other conversations and other voices. Well, I appreciate that. And before we end the love fest and go on to our next question, my sense of it has always been Tony and you can correct me if you think I'm wrong. Is it everything that you do for an organization should have two lenses? And if you think about glasses, it's the left and the right. The left should be your clients and who you serve and the right should be fundraising. Because if you don't look through that lens, you will never be able to work with your clients. No mission, no money, no mission, you know that thing. And maybe that's a little crass, but I feel like this should be at the way we answer a lot of these questions should be the hardest. And so it's funny cause we talked a little bit about generationally, right? And just the differences between folks like you and I that have been in the game for a little while versus the emerging leaders that are in the space. So what did you say? No money, no mission, right? And so now folks would probably say, no investor, no outcome. That is much kind, large, gentler and more intellectual. Thank you, no investor, no outcome. Okay, when I get back to my office, I'm writing that down. Or no impact, either one, right? No outcome or no impact. No investor, no. I like impact better, no investor, no impact. Okay, so for those of you who follow me on LinkedIn, every Monday I do a nonprofit wisdom post. I am going to go in and do that and quote you and put that in for next Monday. No investor, no impact. Okay. That's good. Okay, let's go, baby. All right, cause Marcus took the time to submit a question, so we should answer it. Yeah, and this one is a doozy and I have never, ever seen this. Is there a legal issue for having a board member serve if they are not 21? We have a new member who will be 21 years old after they have served for about five months. I thought this was a really dynamite question. And it's definitely something a lot of organizations that are kind of, that are future focused are having this kind of conversation about where can we engage younger voices, right? Where can we engage fresh ideals and fresh perspectives? And just where does it make sense? And a lot of organizations are looking at the board level to engage those younger leaders that have kind of those future visions. I know that there are governance guidelines that vary across states. And some states, the guidelines are very specific. I think in Florida might, Florida is one of the few. I think there's only a handful that actually speaks specifically to, you know, an age, a minimum age for serving on a board of directors. So in Florida, I think it's 16 that you can serve on the board of directors. I've always said that board members are volunteers with the highest level of accountability. So you want to think about, well, one, you wanna find out if there are governance guidelines within your state that you need to be mindful of. And you can go to harborcompliance.com as just one of many tools or resources that'll give you kind of a state-by-state listing of what those governance, pardon me, guidelines look like. Great, great, Lee. Yeah, but you can engage these voices without having to put them on your board or having them have that level of accountability that comes with serving on your board. So there are lots of organizations I know that are very successful with a youth advisory board. So there are definitely ways that, again, you can engage those thoughts, those voices without having to worry about increased liability because they're serving at that level of accountability for the organization. So get creative. I totally support, because just think of the experience that an emerging leader gets by serving on a board like that and we have, there are lots of leadership. Julie, I know in your community, there's a leadership program that you've participated in. Here in South Florida, I participated in Leadership Broward. But there is a youth leadership component to that and a board engagement component here in South Florida with Leadership Broward where they help find youth that'll serve on a board for a short period of time to give them that leadership experience. So you're certainly doing a lot to build emerging leaders when you give them those opportunities to serve on your board. So I totally support that. But if you're worried about liability, plenty of other great ways. Yeah, Marcus, I would say you need to check with whoever is doing your staff legal work. And I would also check with the CPAs that are reviewing your policies and your accounting policies because my concern with you is strictly on the liability side and that is the fiduciary aspect of board membership, especially for a 501C3, there's some legal issues here. And to Tony's point, in some states, you are not considered of legal signing age for any documents, contracts, or more importantly, decisions or voting actions. So this is where I think you need to check out. Your site was Harbor... It is harborkompliance.com. Okay, cool, great. It was a resource that I found. So again, Tony applaud Marcus and his organization for wanting to engage youthful leaders and have those voices and that vision at the table. Super smart, really encourage it. Like you said, it's just a matter of what's allowed within your state and to what degree do you, does this affect your liability? Yeah, it's really, I think it's an amazing question. And I can't wait to see, a lot of times what happens is people will comment on our answers or ask other questions because it's sparked something in their own world. Sure, I welcome that. Yeah, so we'll have to see what happens. And Marcus, you need to let us know. Okay, name with health. Okay, ooh, I love name with health. Those are my favorite. I am the new CEO of a wonderful organization with a great history. Congratulations, name with health. Yeah, I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed in wondering if I need an executive coach. However, I'm concerned about the confidentiality of this. Any suggestions? Yeah, that's a tough spot, right? Because you've interviewed for this new role, you've risen above the other folks and you've been offered the job. And now that you're in it, you don't want them to have any sense that they've made a mistake. Right, I love it, yes. You don't want them to go, oh, no. You know, so, but at the same time, the sectors progressing more and more organizations really are seeing the benefit of executive coaching and professional development. So, you know, I don't, I want to offer a specific answer as possible. You can see I'm, my brain is having a fight internally here. Tony, you know what I think? I think you said something really interesting. That reminds me of that line from a movie, son, if that ain't Jesus hang up in church when your phone goes off. Okay, Tony, you said something really powerful at the very beginning in the Chitty Chat Chat. And that was about professional development and the investment in professional development. Do you think if name withheld, switch the vocabulary from executive coaching to executive development or development, you know, I mean, education, training, whatever, that that would reframe it? Yeah, no, I definitely think so. I think same professional development versus executive coaching. If you're concerned, you know, again, coaching does sound a little more like you, you need some of the nuts and bolts and maybe you do. But you can get those same things through professional development. So I think that's spot on, Julie. I think kind of reframing the way that name withheld might share this information. And you may want to, you know, I'm all about transparency because I think that's core to the work that we do in nonprofit and it needs to be a core value of all of our organizations. But I think, you know, there's nothing wrong with kind of taste testing, right? So if you know a specific area and for a lot of CEOs, the biggest thing is around budgeting, you know, looking at a P&L, it's a lot of the fiduciary stuff that kind of catches us off guard if we're a new CEO. So when I say taste test, I'm like, figure out what P, you know, where is your gap, right? Figure out the gap, figure out how you can fill the gap with some professional development and then go ahead and lean into a little bit of it just on your own. I'm sure there's something either in LinkedIn learning or something that you can participate in that doesn't cost a lot of money. You can see if it's gonna bring value and then you can decide, you know, just through that, maybe the gap's not as wide as you thought and you can tackle this on your own without having to be super transparent about it. So before we leave, I've got a question that what you just said kind of made me wonder, who funds this? Well, that's it as well. So that's, and I thought about that as well, Julia, because a lot of, you know, again, professional development, you know, even marketing, a lot of organizations do not have specific line items in their annual budget for professional development or marketing. So again, you know, there are more, more free and affordable services now than ever, I think around professional development. So take a look, do some taste testing. If, you know, if you recognize, if you realize the gap is large and requires a larger investment, then put your case statement together and talk to your board about, you know, what, again, what are gonna be the results of this investment? How are you going to be even better for the community and the organization as a result? Can state your case? Yeah, and don't shy away from it. I mean, we all need education. We all need to be improving ourselves. And I think that's, you know, a great investment. Okay, name with help, thank you. Okay, Danielle from Chicago, Illinois. I'm struggling with work. Don't get me wrong, I love my nonprofit, yet I'm super exhausted by everything. Could I be suffering from compassion fatigue? What are the next steps I should consider? Wow, this kind of breaks my heart. Yeah, but it's, you know, and thank you, Danielle, for sharing this great question. We're all experiencing it. Whether you call it compassion fatigue, burnout, just, you know, however you want to title it, I think now more than ever, folks are feeling some version of this. So I think, you know, I'm not a counselor in this regard, but I think, you know, as we look at best practices and other things we've read around professional development, I think the first step, Danielle, was that you recognized it. Right. You have owned it to the extent that you have verbalized it. So you've put it out there. I think that's the first big step. And I'm super guilty of, you know, self-care. I am not as good about it as I should be. And we need to be better at that. So, yes, Danielle, you could be suffering from compassion fatigue, or again, however you might want to title it. There's nothing about that that makes you, you know, less of a person or anything. It doesn't devalue who you are or your contributions. I think for, you know, it's been a challenging year for a lot of fundraisers. So really think about unapologetically what you need to do for you, Danielle, and carve out those moments, carve out that me time, whatever that looks like for you so that you can recharge your batteries and be the best version of yourself. I love that. Because, Julia, I have mimicked the way that you end the shows and the phrase that you end. And I think Danielle could benefit from the way that you wrap up all of the shows and that particular phrase. So I'll give you a little secret. I came up with that for me. I came up with that for me because I realized that I needed to hear that, you know, and that I wasn't doing it. And that, you know, I see such a bleed-off of amazing talent because they get exhausted. Because they get exhausted, they love their work, they love their missions, exactly what Danielle said, that they just become so overwhelmed and physically and mentally exhausted and also financially. Oh, of course, no, absolutely. That plays a huge role in it as well. And again, you know, I don't know what the specific business norms are, you know, the norms are for this particular organization, but chances are, Danielle, others are feeling the same thing. So if, you know, if you have the type of organization where you can openly discuss some of these things, you may find that you have others feeling the same way and you can start building some internal support system. Another way to kind of combat this is sit down and say, you know, what is my personal mission statement for me? Love that. And how do I fulfill my mission statement? Love that. And what are the components that make my mission statement successful? And I think that your self-care will be part of that equation. I love that. That's like wisdom of the ages right there. I needed to hear that today. Okay, Charles from San Francisco. I'm a volunteer board member and have been tasked with leading a committee on by-law review. Ooh, lucky you. Oh yeah, fun times. Woo-hoo! I have never done this in heaven. No idea where to begin. Also, do we need to hire an attorney to do this? Are there even lawyers who specialize in nonprofit work? So Charles, first of all, thank you for carrying the torch on what is often you saw how Julia and I both reacted. On a topic that is not, you know, the sexiest, but the most important. So, you know, having updated viable, relevant by-laws that are actively used and referred to to govern the organization are super, super important. So I'm glad, Charles, that you're carrying the torch and that your organization is even going through some type of review. They really should be reviewed every three years, you know, at a minimum. And sooner, if you're in an ever-evolving kind of landscape, right? But definitely, so first start there. Yes, congratulations, they need to be reviewed. Yes, there are, you know, plenty of lawyers that specialize in this kind of work. You could, you know, Google it. You'll get tons of great resources. Do you need to hire an attorney? So that's an interesting question. And I think it depends on what resources are available to you. So, you know, many boards make it standard that they're gonna at least have some type of legal representation on their board. So maybe there's a board member that's, you know, an attorney that knows just enough to be able to kind of guide through the process. I believe that I mentioned board source often because they were great, great resources for board development. And I believe they have some resources also for creating and revising bylaws. So Google board source and see what type of, you know, what type of resources they have available to help guide you through the process. I think, you know, I think you can do it on your own with some additional support. If your organization has the funds to invest in an attorney, go ahead and do it. Right. You know, I'm reminded years ago I had an arts organization come to me and they were doing this. They were over 100 years old and they were finally getting around to figuring out that they needed to figure out their compliance and all that. Somebody found the original documents or documents that went back pretty far. Which was amazing. And they were mortified because in the call to action it said that the organization was specifically to support white women, white Christian women of means. And so, you know, this would have been like 95, 90 years which made sense then, but they were horrified to think that that could actually get out and become a marketing problem. Absolutely. So they were like, oh my God, we were horrified. We've, you know, never operated that way. But if you went through, you know, the government corporation commission in this case and found the documents, this would be what was legally stated. And so they were freaked out to, you know, deal with this on a couple of different fronts. And I agree with you, every three years you need to review this. Do you need to restructure and rewrite? No, but you need to be up on what these governance policies are. And so, you know, Charles, look at what you have. Look at what you have or then determine what you don't have. And then trying to figure this out. I love Tony, your recommendation of the sources that are out there. I'm a big believer in doing the work upfront and then having that legal review so that you get that oversight, but you don't have such a huge financial impact. Super smart recommendation, Julia, that's right. You don't have to hire necessarily an attorney to carry it from A to Z. There are lots of great resources for you to get it done and then they can do the review and get that stamp of approval that gives you the peace of mind that you're looking for. Yeah, and I think it's important. And like you said, it's the less sexy committee assignment that you could take. But I think, Charles, you'll use this in other parts of your life. Oh, for sure. I think that's what's the magic of board services. Oh, for sure. It ultimately bleeds out into other parts of your life. Okay, Sammy from Miami. Our CEO and board chair are demanding the all staff return to the campus effective 9-1-21. I'm trying to tell them that we are going to lose staff and that we can't just snap our fingers and replace them. Help. I wonder if Sammy does. Pardon me? I wonder what Sammy does, because that's like an HR perspective. Yeah, yeah. So there's all kinds of things going on in this particular question that I really don't have the HR or legal credentials to really guide appropriately. I can say that, one is, Sammy, I applaud the lens in which you're looking at this, right? That you've got folks that are super talented or in your organization that are bringing relevance and you don't want to lose them. And right now it's a very competitive job market. So to replace them as you're right is not going to be an overnight activity. It's going to be a three to six month activity to replace your team members. You might be able to, our organization has been amazing throughout the last year and a half. And as we've looked at what might the future be, they've sent out a lot of surveys, had focus groups, so that they could understand kind of the needs and the desires of our team before any real decisions were made. So it sounds like in this case, maybe that process wasn't used to kind of just get feedback on what's going to work. As leaders, we have to recognize, appreciate and embrace that things are different. We're not going back to, and a lot of times I know we have these, the conversations kind of keep some of this evergreen, but for this particular conversation, it's very specific to this moment in time. Oh yeah. We're not going to, we're never going back. No. To the way things were pre-pandemic. If we want to meet the needs of team members, we need to be thinking in a hybrid way. Now some folks are going to want to come to the office every day and that's super. Some folks are going to want a balance they're going to want that option to come in or not come in. So, again, I think it's great. You got a question, what is the risk to the talent that we have if we're mandating this or if we've made these decisions in a silo without any input? Right. And I agree. I think it's looking at that impact and that's really the way we started today's episode of Ask and Answer featuring the great mind of Tony Bell. This has been wonderful. You know, Tony, we've had you on before and we thought you were fabulous. Well, thanks. And this is just a joy to get your opinion. As we were talking about earlier, you know, we are on the West Coast, you're on the East Coast. We oftentimes have geographic, cultural, regional differences to the way we answer these questions and it's an amazing, amazing journey. Check out Fundraising Academy Cause Selling. If you want to know more about this process, we did an amazing three month series with the Fundraising Academy just on the cause selling cycle. It was riveting and all of those are archived. All those episodes are archived. So really an amazing, amazing thing. And again, that just scratches the surface because Fundraising Academy has a lot of professional development. So make sure that you connect with them and see what they've got cooking. And we will be seeing Tony back here and members of his team regularly because it's really an exciting opportunity to learn from them. Hey, again, I'm Julia Patrick, CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. Jared Ransom will be back with us next week and we will continue the journey. If you've got a question, there are four main ways to reach out to us. So please do. We love hearing from you. We love tackling some of these questions. If we don't know them, we'll find out somebody who does. And we won't make up the answers. We'll be totally honest about the answers. I don't know about that. I'm not sure. Sometimes my answers are strictly opinions. Well, that's okay. That's part of the conversation, right? But... Oh my goodness. Well, hey, thank you. I shouldn't have had our presenting sponsors hear that, but we do appreciate your sponsorship and support of the nonprofit show. We also wanna let you know that this is a Friday and we are asking you to remind yourselves to stay well so you can do well. Tony, thank you so much. Have a great and restful weekend. You do the same. It's always a pleasure. Thank you so much.