 I wish to introduce Dr. Vogel, who's kindly agreed to talk to us about Fraunhofer FEP. That is one of the many Fraunhofer institutes in this case concerned with organic electronics and electron beam and plasma deposition. And the obvious question to start with, Dr. Vogel, is what is all that? How does it fit together? Okay, thanks for the good question. And indeed, considering the history of Fraunhofer FEP, originally it was founded in 1992 or so, and long before my time. And at that point in time it was mainly dedicated to electron beam and plasma technology. So mainly methods for creating or for generating electron beams and for performing specific, let's say, material, let's say, material adaptation steps, but also, let's say, for using electron beam, let's say, for different kinds of applications as, for instance, also let's say, sterilization, also for, let's say, for electron beam-based evaporation and several approaches. And plasma technology has mainly been used for deposition of several materials, for instance, sin films, for instance, also barrier films, but also, let's say, optically active films, or let's say for optical filters or similar. And let's say these two general topics have been the original reason for founding these institutes in the early 90s. And the organic electronics actually, well, joined Fraunhofer FEP in 2014. And since it was, until that point in time, it was part of another Fraunhofer entity, which has been joined with FEP in 2014. And that's why, let's say, now it's organic electronics, electron beam and plasma technology. Anyway, one of the reasons to join, let's say, these organic electronics Fraunhofer entity together with the original Fraunhofer FEP was that they have been, let's say, several synergies already before that. So we already had some collaboration with Fraunhofer FEP, for instance, also on their expertise in, let's say, in specific tools and specific equipments. So, you know, for instance, also, let's say, in OLED, but also, let's say, in Zinfirm, deposition in general, there are sheet-to-sheet equipment, as well as road-to-road equipment. And Fraunhofer FEP, already the original one, has been active in developing road-to-road tools, for instance, for barrier film depositions. And at the previous Fraunhofer Comet, which worked in the organic electronics, we already operated a tool for OLED road-to-road deposition, which was already, before 2014, located at the Fraunhofer FEP, but operated by Fraunhofer Comet at that point in time. And also, let's say, Fraunhofer FEP originally has been also, let's say, process development-oriented, whereas the previous Fraunhofer Comet has a little bit more focus, I mean, which was focusing on organic electronics, but more focusing on using processes, also developing processes, but also using processes for specific applications. So, for instance, for displays, for micro displays, or also for OLED lighting and science applications. So, and that made also, let's say, a good fit for Fraunhofer to even, let's say, make use or make advantage of these energies between the process-oriented, original FEP and the more, let's say, application and product-oriented or device-oriented Fraunhofer Comet. And so, that synergy turned out to be successful. Well, that's interesting. And organic electronics, sometimes that includes inorganic materials and composites on an organic substrate, or are you specializing specifically in organic active materials? Well, in the FEP in general, we are working on several types of substrates. So, I mean, of course, we make use of organic substrates. For instance, also, barrier films are being deposited on organic substrates, for instance, by road-to-road processing, and those foils are being used for packaging, for instance, packaging applications or other applications. We are also making use of class substrates, obviously, both Richard as well as UltraZinc class, so it can be flexible. And also, let's say, UltraZinc class, for instance, can be used for both as a substrate as well as an encapsulation, let's say, material again to provide barrier properties, for instance. And last but not least, if you consider micro-displays, we are using a single crystalline silicon wafer, this is a substrate, where we deposit zeolet on top, on an 8-inch wafer level, for instance. And also, let's say, zeolet becomes covered with a sin film encapsulation layer again with a barrier layer, and also, last but not least, with a hard coat or with another colour filter or glass wafer or similar. So we work with several types of substrates, and often we heterogeneously combine several materials in organic, organic with each other. Yes, and what you put on them is also organic and inorganic, like the barrier layers. Do you do the duplex ones with the organic and inorganic layers? Yes, we do the balancing or the organic semiconductors themselves, which are organic, but for instance also for optical filter layers, these might be inorganic materials again, and often these are also, let's say, combinations of both. And your speciality is micro-displays, can you tell us a little more? Yes, sure, of course. So micro-displays are usually very tiny displays, typically screen diagonals less than one inch, even more typical zeolets are 0.2 inch, 0.4 inch, 0.6 inch. So they're also tiny displays, and you always need some sort of optical magnification to perceive an image out of those tiny displays. Since you have to imagine that on such a tiny screen, you still have the same number of pixels as you have on a regular or nowadays mobile phone display TV screen or whatever. So very tiny, and you would not be able to, let's say, to perceive an image with your naked eye from such a tiny screen, so you always would need some optical magnification in front of that. And that optical magnification could mean, let's say, virtually enlarged image, so you have some sort of magnification optics that projects the display image into your natural field of view. This can be augmented reality, or this could be virtual reality, or maybe also an electronic viewfinder. You have the same, let's say, projection setup, or it can also be, let's say, a real enlarged magnification, like in a projector, for instance, or in the front of a projector. But in any case, let's say, some optical magnification is part of that. And so always you have a tiny display and a much larger image perceived. And we also make use of OLED, so organic single conductors again, for making those micro displays, obviously in that case, and the technology for that is called OLED and silicon. So we use a single crystalline silicon wave for substrate. We perform the so-called backplane design. So if you think of such a micro display with millions of pixels, full HD resolution, for instance. So each of the millions of pixels has to be addressed and driven and controlled individually. So you need a backplane full set, an active matrix backplane, similar as you have it in a mobile phone. But whereas in a mobile phone, you have a Zinfirm transistor backplane and micro displays, we usually use a single crystalline silicon backplane. So much more compact devices, much higher performance, but a much smaller area. And we make this IZ integrated circuitry backplane design. So it's a pixel area circuitry and let's say also surrounding driving and control electronics. And then we receive the wave force from a wave of FEP. So we send our design data to them. We receive the 8-inch wave force from ZFEP. And then we perform the OLED post-processing in our line, our pilot manufacturing line. And then we come up with such tiny displays. Maybe I can even show you something. So that's been a huge success and a long way to go, haven't they? Is that something that can be seen here? I don't know. It should be, it should light up inside. Can you see that? Tiny, tiny. Well, yes, that's the idea. Absolutely. And I can even show you the display itself. I mean most of that is just battery electronics and the tube. And the tube over here is mainly hollow. And there's a lens in front of that. And the actual display is here on the end of this tube. So you can imagine that's the interface towards the display. So it's a serial interface or just a few cables inside. And the display is here behind that tape. And so the display itself is, I don't know, about three by four millimeters, let's say the entire chip. It's about three by four millimeters inside. And the display area may be about three by two millimeters. And that's it. What sort of applications are now envisaged? Yes, I mean specifically that sort of display is intended to be integrated into, let's say, near to eye displays. So let's assume you have kind of sports glasses. And you have such a tiny display. I mean the optics, as you can imagine, is the biggest part of the entire thing. But there are also different optical solutions you can think of. Then you can really integrate that or at least the display and the interface for that into the nose frame of spectacles. And then you might also consider, let's say, a different type of optics that is more or less, let's say, also projecting the display image onto the, let's say, your eye glass. And then you would also embed some maybe smaller batteries in here and also let's say electronics, the same as here maybe, but also in a smaller form factor that provides a blue-to-blue energy connection to your mobile phone, for instance. And then you can wear that, let's say, during cycling, for instance, during bicycling, or let's say also during professional activities. And you receive additional information, let's say, in a semantic context to the activities that you are currently performing. And let's say, and the eye-wear device itself, or also some devices, just the display, the optics, of course. And let's say a wireless interface. And then let's say all the, let's say, processing power and cloud connection and whatever you might need could be performed by your smartphone, for instance. And what is specifically important, let's say specifically in those verbal applications is obviously life, battery life. So I mean, you would not like to recharge your device every four hours or whatever. Also, let's say during cycling, it should last at least one day and it depends if it's 12 hours or eight hours or whatever. And that's why we, let's say, also this specific micro-display architecture has been developed to really achieve ultra-low power consumption. So I mean, finally, the power consumption of said chip is just related to those pixels that are on at a certain point in time. So and all the other pixels are off. But there's a major difference to, let's say, to regular, all the displays on the market is that even the chip itself does not consume much power. On a regular, let's say, micro-display nowadays, the chip would consume power even if the display content would not change. So and to give you, let's say, a proportion, let's say, the back-plane, the chip itself would consume about 100, 150 milliwatts. But there would be no change in the screen content. So even, let's say, if the screen would be completely dark, all pixels off if it consumes is 150 milliwatts, so actually for nothing. So and then, of course, the actual OLED power consumption for the OLED emission comes on top, whatever, 10 milliwatts, 50 milliwatts, something like that. And for that architecture, even if you display a certain screen content, the chip itself is not really consuming power. It's much less than 1 milliwatts as that goes into the chip. So it's almost about a factor of 100 between a regular display back-plane architecture on this one. So as long as there's no change in the screen content, you just consume the power of the OLED pixels that are on and that are emitting light. And the chip itself is more or less consuming, nothing anymore. And that really improves the battery life of such a variable. Yes, yes. And it's significant, not just a few hours. So now you can talk about days, weeks. Yes, yes. So there were companies that were unsuccessful in this field many years ago weren't there. So these advances should make the product a commercial success. That's very exciting. Well, you have a remarkable virtuosity in your institute. So thank you very much. We shall stay very close to you. You're extremely impressive in what you're doing. And thank you very much for talking to us. Thank you as well for this kind interview. You're welcome.