 People of the internet welcome to modern-day debate tonight. We are debating is the Quran scientific and we are starting right now I'm your host Kaz of the atheist edge and I am joined tonight by Nadir Ahmed versus Ghalib Kamal each person tonight will get 12 minutes of opening statements followed by 45 minutes of Q I'm sorry Open dialogue and then 35 minutes of Q&A and leading us off tonight will be Ghalib So Ghalib at your first word. I will start the timer. You're muted by the way. Can you hear me? Can you share my screen? Please? Sorry? I was on mute. Sure. Can you share my screen? Yeah There you go so Is Quran scientific? It's a very good question because Quran is one of those books which is You know revered by and respected by a lot of people around the world more than you know One and a half billion between one and a half billion to two billion. So what is basically a scientific fact? scientific fact is basically a Hypothesis or a prediction that has been confirmed repeatedly through observation and experiment and But whenever we talk about Scientific facts and scientific theories and hypothesis we talk about testability and falsify ability So if any scientist makes us a claim they give us a hypothesis or a scientific You know theory then we can test it through an experiment and that is basically testability So one can make claims that can be testable and that are not testable. So Usually the claims which have a scientific nature are testable and we can come up with something Scientific about those things and this is how it goes So we can test them through an experiment or an observation Then falsifiability is that whenever we have a have a claim that falls into the domain of science Then whenever you make that claim you also give a condition in which that claim can be falsified so this is how it is but Quran gives us many vague statements. There are a lot of verses that That Muslims think give us some scientific Knowledge into into the into the end of our cosmos or of our universe or for the nature But the problem is none of these statements are Scientific in nature as they don't give us a falsifiability criteria or a testability Is not provided for a testability criteria is not available for any kind of Quranic statement And that does not only fall to Quran. It it is correct for all the other religious books as well Muslims claim that there are many scientific miracles and facts in the Quran But all of these nearly all of these claim facts are Unfalsifiable and untestable which does not make them scientific claims Quranic statements all these Quranic statements that people think are scientific in nature basically they conform more to ancient mythologies and Reliefs rather than modern science So anything that we see in a Quranic statement in Quran that Muslims think that is Scientific in nature is not scientific in nature. Actually, it's just conforming to the old mythology and Anything that is mentioned mentioned in the Quran about heaven than earth and any other thing that we see and we think that is Relatable to science is basically more related to ancient mythologies So this is Quran chapter 21 verse number 30 which says do not the unbelievers see that the heaven that earth Were joined together So this is a claim that many a times Muslim scholars or the people who want to claim that Quran is scientific say that this is a verse that explains big bang But I would beg to differ here because this statement conforms more to ancient cosmologies and Ancient cosmogonies like this one is a statement from the song of hoe that is most probably 1600 to 1800 BCE It was a clay tablet that was discovered in the 19th century on which the song of hoe was mentioned and in the song of hoe We can see one thing and little who write who will make the human seed of the land Come forth from the earth and not only did he hasten to separate heaven from earth And this statement is repeated many times in many ancient cosmologies But the song of hoe is one of the most ancient mentions of this claim So any claim that Muslims make regarding this statement that Quran mentions big bang or Quran gives us some factual Information about the nature of our universe. It is just a lie It is just related to an ancient cosmology rather than this Then Quran mentions sky as a roof and in many ancient cosmogonies sky is mentioned as a roof This is I on the right side You can see a picture in which the ancient Israelite Cosmology is mentioned and Rakiya and firmament is the word that is mentioned and the word Rakiya is Used in Quran and many Hadees for the firmament of the sky as well Allah is the one who raised the heavens without any pillars and you can see Quran chapter 13 verse 2 and then and when the sky is stripped away Quran chapter 81 verse 11 and day the day we will fold the heaven like Folding of a written sheet of records that is basically Quran chapter 21 verse 104 and all of these are talking about ancient Cosmologies where cosmogonies where Quran where sky is mentioned in somewhat similar words then Quran also talks about seven heavens and also seven earths and that's also a very ancient Theme that is found in ancient mythologies, especially the Mesopotamian mythologies from where it started Quran chapter 37 verse 6 says indeed we have adorn the nearest heaven with the dormant of the stars So now note this point here that Quran is talking about the the stars existing in the nearest heaven heaven and then again 71 15 talks about seven heavens again and then Quran chapter 2 Surah Baqarah Verse 22 talks about who made from you the earth for you the earth a bed and the sky a ceiling and Sent down from the sky rain brought forth thereby. So in Surah Baqarah chapter 2 verse 22 we can see that Sky is the place from where the rain comes down and rain comes down today we know that it comes down from within that And Quran is using the word Samah for this place from where the rain comes down and in the previous Verse we can see and many other verses in the Quran like this chapter 37 verse 6 that the nearest heaven is the place Where the stars exist. So there is basically not only a scientific mistake here There's a contradiction between these two verses One play at one place Quran is saying that the sky is the place from where the rain comes down and the other On the other place it's saying that the nearest heaven is where the stars exist so is the nearest heaven the The the place where the clouds in the and the rain comes down or is it the place where the stars exist? Because this is a big question and even there are a lot of other paradoxes That can be found in the definition of sky in Quran that we will discuss further in the in this debate So then we have again chapter 37 verse 6 indeed We have a dawn the nearest heaven with the dawnment of stars again the nearest heaven is Where the stars are then in chapter 22 verse 46 So so have they not traveled through the earth and have and have hearts by which to reason and ears by which to hear So Quran says that it is the heart that a person reasons with today We know that it is the brain that people reason with and even in the ancient Ancient Greece people knew some of the some of the philosophers knew that brain is The place where that is the seat of thought rather than the heart But Quran continued this even a thousand years after the Greek philosophers pointed this out and hinted at this Then again We see Quran says that meteors are meteorites are missiles that are fired at the Evil spirits that go and here try to hear what is happening in the sky and again We talk about the nearest heaven from where these meteorites are coming down and again there is a contradiction between this and that worse so Then again Quran talks about in chapter 34 verse 9 that pieces of sky can fall down on people Which is quite stupid because we don't we know that sky is not a solid thing and but we see in in The blue color that we see during the day is basically the Refraction of light happening because of the water vapor in in the atmosphere and again, you know Quran thinks that pieces of sky can fall down on people which means that Quran says that sky is a solid thing and then Then there is the there is a verse in the Quran Sorry, I mentioned to sorry. I forgot to mention the verse number here And we certainly sent our messengers with evident proof and we sent down the scripture and we sent down Iron in which there is intense force and benefit for humanity and that Allah may know who supports him his messengers so Here Quran is claiming that all the iron on earth came down from the sky But this is also an ancient belief that was even held by the ancient Egyptians the ancient Egyptians said the name for iron in ancient Egyptian language is Basically the metal of heaven and there was a common Theme that can be found in the pyramid tax and in the pyramid tablets and that speaks that Farrow would ascend into the heaven by splitting through the metal sky and this is pyramid tablet 257 it is it is also mentioned in pyramid tablet 469 pyramid tablet 184 and Similarly, it speaks again in a lot of other tablets about the king the farrow pushing through the iron dome of the sky and going ascending to the heavens and And there it also talks about an iron door in the starry sky That is also mentioned in pyramid tablet number 757 and pyramid tablet number 669 so all of this is mentioned there that we can talk about and ever anything that is Most of the things that are mentioned in the Quran and we think and Muslims think that this is very scientific All of these verses do not have any basis In modern science rather all of this is based in ancient cosmologies and all of these words that we see Quran saying Okay, we separated the heaven and earth and the iron descended from the sky and And stars are shot as missiles on onto the jinn to Protect what is being talked about in heaven all of that is coming down from these ancient cosmologies Most of that is some of that is also copied from these ancient mythologies into the bible Then it comes down to Quran So all of this is connected the religion of yesterday is basically the mother of religion of today Anything any mythologies that we find in the religion of yesterday is basically brought down into the religion of today And Islam and Quran is no Is is basically fall falls under the same umbrella of these ancient cosmologies and cosmogony So most of the scientific claims that Muslims make about the verses of Quran are not scientific at all But rather That's all I had All right. Thank you so much. Ghalib and we will turn it over to Nadir for his 12 minute opening statement Nadir at your first word I will start your timer. Thank you so much Thank you for that presentation So basically he's uh, you know just to get started. He said look Quran is not scientific Because you see a similarities between the Quran and what he calls ancient mythology But the Quran has already explained that let us go in fact I'm going to share my desktop over here and provides a clear explanation For why you see similarities. Okay, so let me go and present my little screen over here and All you have to do Ghalib it just pick up the Quran and read the explanation inside Surah Nahel Verse number 36 it says over here and certainly we sent to every nation on earth a messenger So that messenger came with a with a message and that message has now fragmented Into the different writings of people Okay, so if you see a similarities between the Quran and some ancient writing That doesn't mean that the Quran is copying from that source. Okay, because let me explain to you If you copy from these ancient writings Then you are going to copy along a lot of those scientific errors into those books But what we're going to see tonight is that there are no scientific errors in the Quran Is in complete harmony with modern science And we'll go through each and every one of the examples which Ghalib mentioned So again showing a similarities between the two books really proves nothing. Okay, because the Quran has already explained itself So you you see the first Let me just jump into some of the issues which he felt were contradictions in science And what you're going to find out is this Ghalib Ghalib doesn't have a very good Understanding of science. He said you see in the Quran it talks about thinking with your heart And this is and he claimed that this is scientifically incorrect. He said look it's found in the ancient pagan literatures Yes, you can find thinking with your heart in pagan literature, but what Ghalib is unaware of is that this is actually scientifically correct Today modern science. I'm gonna give you my if you just look on your screen. Please hit pause on your youtube On your youtube thing just to get my references because I'm gonna go through this very quickly here I'm quoting from a heart math. Okay. It says over here the heart brain Neuro circulatory enables it to independently independently of a cranial Independently of a cranial brain to learn remember make decisions and even feel sense Did you see that this is what science latest discoveries in science? Let me let us go to this article This was in the huffing poll huff post it says what really is fascinating is that the heart contains a little brain of its own Yes, the human heart in addition to the other functions actually possesses a brain Can people think with their heart? Scientists have confirmed that this is absolutely true now. Ghalib mentioned in his one of his videos Well, what do you have to say about heart transplant? Now this is going to kind of freak you out. So let me just quote just straight from the references over here Okay, this is from pub med. This is from the government website over here This is a very prestigious Medical reference from presenting to you here People with heart transplant have reported that they have discovered personality changes Following heart transplant heart transplantation which have been even reported for decades included Including the accounts of the acquiring the personality Characters of the donor of the heart Four categories of personalities changes and it goes on but basically what it's saying is that they acquired the memory The personality of the donor of that heart I talked to a cardiologist about this and he was like, yeah, actually I know about this. He said um That one of his patients actually told him that when he got to the heart transplant He said it felt like he he got the soul of his donor So as we can see what ghalib is presenting as scientific error. It's just copying from pagans Actually, the pagans got it right Science has now confirmed what the Quran what what the Quran has been saying He said, okay, you see the Quran is wrong Because it says that the earth has a ceiling Therefore the Quran is wrong Then what does ghalib have to say about scientists telling us that the earth has a ceiling as we see from the following article astrobiology Magazine life on earth what? ceiling Okay, so let's let's just do a quick google search to find out more about what the why we say that the earth Why the scientists say that the earth has a ceiling all you got to do is just go into google Can you guys see my can you guys keep see my screen just wondering? Yes, we can still see it. Okay, awesome. So weight Of the atmosphere there we go About 5.5 quadrillion tons I think that's a that's a pretty big ceiling So once again, we see ghalib and it's not just ghalib But all of these atheist people who try to criticize the Quran they printed many articles That the Quran is contradicting science But what we are seeing here is that the Quran is in word for word agreement with modern science So as we can see there is no contradiction over there Said tonight that um Oh, the you said like the ceiling is falling with sky falling This can't happen. This can only happen If the uh, if the earth is i'm sorry the sky is solid or something like that. I believe of what he said What does ghalib have to say about live science asking the exact same question in the Quran? What if the sky fell? Well, of course, we know that the sky is like what 5.5 quadrillion tons. That's the weight of it You see to the layman to the person who doesn't understand the science He's looking up in the sky. He's like, oh, that's just all thin air. Uh-uh So once again once you are properly, uh, you know In fact, let us and i'm going to go very quickly through the actually i'm running out of time So i'm not going to go anymore into this reference over here But as you can see from my reference my website the website i'm quoting from live science It says all the oxygen nitrogen other stuff in the earth atmosphere as a whooping combined mass of five Quadrillion tons and they asked the question. What if this fell on you word for word agreement with what we find in the holy Quran he said tonight that um Uh, let's see big bank theory. I'm not here proposing a big bank theory Okay, and we've already explained that if you find some similarities between the Quran and what's an ancient mythology This is just a Quran confirming what was revealed what was revealed before And then he said, ah, you see the Quran is wrong because it talked about Uh, oh, yeah all the iron. I think it's something about iron that um Oh, okay. Actually, he never actually claimed that was an error by just some copying issue Okay, now he said you see the Quran is wrong for saying about stars near to the earth This is this is you cannot say that this is a this is wrong from a scientific point of view then what uh, where am I? Here we go What do you have to say about scientists now? I'm quoting from the article over here Scientists just discovered our stars Uh, uh our stars near Scientists just discovered our stars new to the nearest neighborhood once I figure out how to read So the point here is from a scientific perspective talking about stars near to the earth is Perfectly fine. So let's look at another article over here I'm quoting from this is a nasa article Yeah, here they ask the same questions where they're talking about 20 000 stars Near to the earth So if scientists can say that why is it wrong for the Quran to say that So, uh, and I think that is it in terms of what he believes unless I Unless I have missed something here. Oh, I'm sorry meteors being thrown Okay, so from a scientific point of view, this is perfectly fine. He said oh this all contradict science Did he give you the article did he give actually, you know, I'm presenting many articles here on my screen as you can see Did Khaled present to you one single scientific article No So in what way does this contradict science? But anyways, we'll have some fun with him inside the cross examination period But just to go very quickly on what the Quran talks about inside this verse of the Quran Which he talks about that god will throw these It doesn't the Quran actually doesn't say stars. It said he will throw these lamps at these rebellious devils Actually, there's a scientific miracle Associated with that and I and I actually do have time where I can get into that So I'll look we'll look at that But the first thing I want to also point out to you is that this is something now which god Almighty is doing as a miracle that he hurls them as satan So at the at the devils, what does science say about miracles? Let's go to that article. We'll just type in here miracles Here we go This is from the article which I'm quoting how stuff works science the place this place This place is certain topics beyond the reach of the scientific method. It's talking about miracles science cannot prove Or refute the existence of god or any kind of supernatural entity So when you say a god is hurly something at a devil from a scientific point of view They're saying look, we don't deal with these things because you're talking about gods. God is it uh, no that We are this is where science is limited. Let's read another article from a scientist This is coming from the irish time. You know, you wrote a very good article in here. This is from dr. William revile He says because science has nothing to say about the supernatural world That does not mean that it denies the supernatural world Okay, he goes on to say that you really can't apply science to something of a supernatural So when we talk about that god will hurl these lamps at the devils In no way does this contradict science because science is not going to touch it at all Now let's get to that miracle which I was saying about this this issue if I and so uh, this is about shooting stars Let's go there real quick so As a lot of was pointing out to you that's phenomenon which you see in the sky at night You know where you could see like that little streak in the sky People thought that was a shooting star Okay, but it's not So they're actually meteors one burning up in the atmosphere How much time do I have one minute? What's the awesome? Burning up in the atmosphere as we can see from this nasa article over here So when we go so now what's now? This is something which the early muslims actually believe that those are stars which were being Her which are which are actually being uh thrown over there. So they asked prophet Muhammad So what do you have to say about those shooting stars? Now notice that's a trick question because as I have pointed to you those are not stars If Muhammad is a false prophet, he would have said, oh, yeah, yeah, I'm shooting stars Let me tell you about them. He would have affirmed the scientifically incorrect statement But now my time is up. But in the cross examination period We will see how prophet Muhammad did he fall into the trap or let's see. Let's see what happens So I guess that's my time and I'm done. Thanks All right, thank you so much Nadir and let me just go ahead and stop that timer And we were about to kick it into the open discussion ladies and gentlemen But I want to let you know Especially if it's your first time here with us at modern day debate that we are a neutral platform Hosting debates on science religion and politics and we want you to feel welcome No matter what walk of life you're from So if you have a question or comment for one of tonight's debaters Please fire into the old live chat and be sure to tag me at modern day debate Superchats will go to the top of the list All we ask is that you please keep it civil and that goes for the general discourse in the live chat as well Please attack the argument and not the person Uh live, uh, I'm sorry Superchats and questions and comments that are attacking the person and insults will not be read But if you attack the argument, we will of course, uh oblige those our invaluable moderators are working tirelessly to elevate the conversation So please show them and the debaters at each other the respect that each other deserve Our guests are linked to the description below So whether you're listening on youtube or via the podcast If you like what you're hearing, please feel free to check those out So, uh, click those links right away hit the subscribe button because we have plenty more debates coming your way And you don't want to miss those out. So, um Like on the 23rd at five o'clock. We have uh king crocaduck and david mcqueen That's going to be coming up really juicy debate. You don't want to miss it And with that we're going to go ahead and kick it into the open discussion and that format's going to be I believe, uh We we did agree on 45. What do we say? 45 minutes of open discussion and we're going to do two minutes of alternating Between the two of you is that correct? So yeah, yeah, I am going to adjust this clock real quick because That's two right there. So I'm going to start the timer at your first word But I'm going to also have another clock going that's going to be keeping track of your individual times who's going to I guess, uh since, uh, god leave went first in the, uh Opening statements will let nadir take the first word Okay, so Unfortunately, the moderator said attack the Arguments not the person so he took all the fun out of this. Oh well So, okay, I got to attack the argument. So, you know, ralib you said that, you know I wanted to correct you on your misunderstanding of science. So koran talked about people thinking with our hearts I have shown you from modern science I've presented many uh many articles on that that we have recently discovered that the heart does contain neurons The heart does do thinking it even contains a lot of the memory now a lot of the science We're still discovering as it is. So even though this is my two minutes I want you to just take 30 seconds of my time And retract your statement that this statement contradicts the core contradicts modern science in light of what you just recently discovered So just take 30 seconds of my time real quick So am I open to talk now? Yeah, just take 30 seconds of my time and retract your your claim that contradicts No, I wouldn't retract my claim because Heart has only 40 000 neurons and the gut has a hundred million neurons And even your penis has 4000 neuron your nerve and you know, so If and and we know that some people we even think with their penis So maybe that's what there is coming from because there there are neurons in the I actually use it you're saying do you want me to address the heart issue now? Is it is my time starting now? Okay, so let me let me go Yeah, let me just very quickly go through some of my points. I mean I understand what you're saying about well first of all I never heard about 30 seconds that you know that the male genitalia has neurons I'll ask for I'll ask for you to show a reference for some of the things you're saying Yeah, okay, but the point here that doesn't take away the fact that yes people do think with their heart As the scientists have confirmed go ahead Okay, can you share my screen here? Yes So he's saying there are 4000 neurons in the heart And that is basically the link that you can see here. This is basically public med NIH q and then again the gut has a hundred million nerve endings And you can see nerve cells and you can see that this is from science.org And then again, you can see that 4000 nerve endings in the glands of the penis You can see that oro.co health guide. You can see that there But one thing that I would like to share here is basically this research article Which tells this is the only research study that has been ever done On the heart issue of heart transplant that he was mentioning there And this study says in a group of patients showed massive Defense denial reactions mainly by rapidly changing the subject of making questions 15 or 15 percent stated that their personality had indeed changed but not because of donor organ But due to the life-threatening event six percent of three patients reported distinct change in personality due to their new hearts only six percent And basically this is because of a life-threatening situation that the personality of a person changes after a heart transplant This also changes after a heart attack as well So this happens But another you never talked about this contradiction in the Quran between the surah bakra verse 22 and Chapter 37 verse 6 one says that that you know that That the sky is where the rain comes down from and the other talks about sky is where the Where the stars are and secondly you talked about the ceiling of earth ceiling of sky and Quran says that in the below the ceiling the stars have been Put so are these stars below the ceiling or they are above the ceiling because there this is a big contradiction This is this is just nonsense Yeah, so can you tell me that the ceiling that you mentioned in one of your references sure sure no are the stars below that ceiling Yeah, the ceiling of the earth that you mentioned. Okay, so What okay, what is been confirmed here tonight does the heart think? Yes, it does does a heart have neurons. I mean I've already presented to you You know many references showing that yes, we can think with our heart And so there's no contradiction over there But when you presented your initial presentation, you said, oh, no the heart cannot think you said Oh, this is just this is we use our brains from a scientific point of view. That's not true Now the the next thing about well, I think what you're saying about the ceiling I think I got just a little of that. Uh, yes science I have presented to you an article in which it specifically stated the earth has a ceiling We even talked about the weight is 5.5 quadrillion tons. They ask the same question What if the sky fell on the earth now? Where is a con when the when the Koran said that the earth has a ceiling Science says the earth has a ceiling Where is a contradiction in any of that? Okay, should I just well just take 30 seconds of my time to answer You are talking about the at the top of the atmosphere being the ceiling, right? Yeah, I mean could be anything. Yeah, there is a ceiling up there And and you what you're saying is actually scientifically wrong and it has already fallen down on the earth Why because all the atmosphere that is above you is putting one kilogram of weight on you So if you're saying it has already fallen down and no one has died because of that You know because the weight of the whole atmosphere is on my shoulder than your shoulder As well, okay. So so the issue here is okay. So you are admitting the sky does have a ceiling You do it Can fall on you. Okay. That's all I wanted to hear from you. So Now I missed the point. I'm sorry. I guess my time is up I missed the point about what you feel is a contradiction So can you please very quickly go through what you are just mentioning? I like a couple of minutes ago and show me what you felt was a contradiction. Sorry about that and go real slow So I could catch up go ahead So the contradiction I already told you is between The the verses that say that sky That sky is from where the stars are and in another verse the Quran says the sky is from where the rain falls down Okay, so basically this is a reply to his question. So my time should start after that Okay, so then there then he's talking about hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Wait, wait, wait I'm pausing the time. Is that okay with you here? Oh, yeah, go ahead. Yeah, okay I will pause the time until you answer his question and then I'll push play on your time once you begin answering I'm sorry. Hold on a second. Let's just clarify He wanted to answer your question and then begin his time After he's done answering your question. Is that all right with you? Yeah, fine Okay, go ahead Okay, then one one thing that I told you was that there are a hundred million neurons in the gut Do you think with your gut? You don't There are even nerve cells in the penis. You don't think with your penis In the same way you don't think with your heart and and the neurons and the research paper link that I showed you You can go do that research paper and it will show you that the nerves nerve cells that are in the in the heart are basically to respond to To certain changes in the environment if a person is getting breathless and that's how the the nerves in the heart is They are not for thinking. They are not for thinking. This is what I was mentioning. They are not for thinking secondly, you said if the ancient cosmologies are mentioning that So and so things and I can assure you that whatever is mentioned in the ancient cosmologies Is inter has been explained in detail and wherever it has been explained in detail Like the sky is made of iron and that is the iron pieces that are falling down egyptians use to believe that Okay, so we don't have a solid sky of iron Okay, secondly, quran talks about the sky as being a solid thing So when you say that quran is This thing in quran is not wrong But rather the earlier revelations also showed those things you would have to give me a proof that there were some earlier revelations because You know, this is an absurd islamic claim that there were earlier revelations all around the world that conform that conform with the islamic claim No, there were no earlier Earlier revelations all the prophets that ever came Were in the middle east most of them all of them were in the small region of israel and The last prophet that you claim was the prophet prophet muhammad. He was in arabia. There are no other prophets that came anywhere else You know, there are no other prophet So you would have to show me that there are some other prophets and you can tell me, you know Give me proof Okay, i'm gonna start your time now Okay, well, so what you can do you can write a peer reviewed paper and you can correct the scientists who say that we think with our heart Okay, there's actually many references now know what none of the scientists are claiming that okay You could think with your genitalia, but they do say you can think with your heart Okay, so that is something which is scientifically proven I think i've presented a lot of articles on that and i'm actually just reading one right over here Cardiac consciousness. Can we really think with our heart? Whether neurons exist in other parts of the body is irrelevant The question is can people think with our heart can it store memory? Can it do the things which i've quoted for you? Yes, it can now you said that The quran set is talking about a solid Okay, can you guys see my screen by the way? Yeah, and wait a second. No one second. Let me add it now go ahead So you I think you mentioned that the quran is talking about a solid sky If the quran explicitly states that there is a solid sky the quran is wrong Simple all you have to do is produce a verse Anywhere in the quran where it says that is a solid sky Scientists have already confirmed the earth has a ceiling and it's really really heavy and yes, it can fall on you okay, so I still have not seen where there's any error in what has in what the quran is presenting It's actually all pretty much agreeing with science And then you try to brush off the claim about quran is confirming what was sent to the other messenger. This is absurd Okay, but this is a logical fallacy of adridiculum If we are to sit talk about what is absurd we can talk about a lot of absurd things about atheism Now you now you asked about the contradiction about sky So the word there is samah samah actually has two meanings it can refer to the immediate sky up above But also you'll see the word samah mentioned the quran is talking about this above domain above the earth So there's two meanings there and I think that's why you're seeing a contradiction there Golly, it's your turn Yeah, so basically the the link that he's showing is not a peer reviewed, you know Journal that the where but he's saying that is basically A peer reviewed journal that is not a peer reviewed journal at all So I'll show you something that is there. Can you share my screen? Yes Okay, wait, wait, wait. Sorry I'll have to Yeah, so Wait, wait. I'll have to switch So there is this article addressing my god It just goes off Sorry, I'll Can you just let me adjust this And not count the time right now Because what's going on? I'm sorry. What's that? Yeah, I will I will have to share my screen once again Because I was going on a stream right one second Can you I need to look at the live stream because he was there seeing because This is weird On my end is not showing nadir or your screen Okay, now it's working again. Okay All right. Can you can you share my screen? Yes, are you able to see this? It's not my screen. It's not this. Oh, sorry. All right So there is this article that talks about the heart contains far few neurons than noggin And their job is not to think in the way that folks folks have misinterpret They help the heart react to various demands placed on On it by the body it doesn't think and you know, no one says that the heart thinks like the brain does You know, kurran says that reason with your heart heart cannot reason You know heart can heart can only perform some very preliminary Neurological operations. That's all it does not think like the brain So the thinking seat of the of a human's body is basically the brain not the heart This is what I am saying and that's why it's wrong in the kurran because you don't think with your heart You think with your brain all the analytical thought the mathematics goes in your brain When a person is doing mathematics you can put them under an mra machine and you would see that there is A neurological activity that is happening there when they are thinking when they think about things There's neurological activity that is happening there when you speak There are speech centers in the brain Warnacky and broccoli areas that light up but nothing lights up in the heart, you know Heart is just pumping blood. It's just a pump and then I told you and he doesn't understand the idea of this That there are more neurons in the gut And you don't think with your With your with your gut, you know, if you say At where are neurons that make you think in your heart, you know that that's just absurd It it doesn't prove anything and he hasn't shown any peer reviewed papers He's shown some some links that he has put in a file. That's all that's nothing more than that And still the other thing is pending He hasn't given me any kind of proof that all of those ancient cosmologies that I That I showed are are related to in any way to the abrahamic religions or the prophets and he did not give anything Yeah, I didn't get your last point. What's the last point? Um, just very quickly you didn't give me any kind of proof that the the epic of gilgamesh or the song of hoh was basically from a prophet Give me proof and I'll be because It's not on me. It's on you. Sure. I will address that. Okay. All religions make claims Okay, they make supernatural claims From a scientific point of view it you don't have to demand to prove me this prove me that prove me that no Look the quran is making a claim you can accept it or reject it from a scientific perspective If the quran said that it sent messengers to every nation of people Then from a scientific point of view, this is perfectly acceptable. You can make whatever claim you want There is nothing in science which says oh you have to reject it and it is false If you don't show me proof This is atheist pseudoscientific Quackology not modern science now. I'm not accusing you of that but I'm accusing some other people of making these false claims I know we don't have to show you any proof. This is what the quran teaches now You can definitely ask where is the proof from the quran? That's perfectly fine We're the scientific evidence proving that it is a scientific miracle. We got no problem of proving that now Let me just share Let me just go ahead and share my link over here Uh, you quoted a medium oracle. Okay, so that's that's not that's not peer reviewed. Okay So the here I am quoting heart math institute Over here now. This is what they say. Okay. It says over here the heart The heart brain neural circulatory enabled it to act independently of the cranial brain to learn remember Make decisions and even Feel sense So what you need to do now you need to author your own peer reviewed article Submit it as a scientist and say look what you're saying is all wrong. This article's over here. They're all wrong You cannot think look your gut has so many neurons your penis has so many neurons Submit your article and when the scientific community accept that then I'll say okay fine. I'm wrong. We're all wrong So The issue here I think let us go move on to now some of these other alleged scientific error claims Because I think we've kind of exhausted this one and I would like to know Let's go back to the issue of samah. You said there is a contradiction there. So why don't you go ahead? I'm a hello I'm sorry. Yeah, so go ahead and bring up your issue that the samah or something. This is contradicting go ahead So you do you want me to address the previous issue again and not This one I have addressed it two times before Okay, you want what did you hear my response? That's going to be your time not my time Okay. Well, my response was samah has two meanings in the Quranid me refers to sky And it also can refer to a domain this outer domain out there You know, but that's your translation That is not the translation of any of those translators that are on quran.com or and quranx. No, they do You know, they do no, no, it's not it's not. Okay. It's not would you like to show you the verses that I mentioned? No, not at all. Okay. What I challenge you to show me That the other meaning in reference to those verses that I showed Okay, but you do understand samah should I give you the number again? Should I give you the number again? Ghalib, do you understand the word samah in arabic? You know, okay. You probably yeah, you are taking it out of out of this format as well So you you want it to go like this? Well, I will ask you a question. I can do it. Yeah, I can do it My my question to you Ghalib is maybe the moderator wouldn't have any problem with this Okay, what is the question? Ghalib The question is that he is saying that there are two meanings of the word samah And I am challenging him to show the other meaning in those two verses that I mentioned to him So do you accept the challenge? Oh, yeah, I'll give two minutes to answer whenever the words So you can open. Yeah, so you can open surah bakra verse number 22 and through chapter 37 verse number six Because both of them talk about samah and one talks about a samah from which the rain comes down And the one talks about the other one talks about the samah from where the stars are So quran is basically confused about this Because quran is thinking that samah is something from where the stars are and then again The quran is confused that samah is somewhere from where the where the rain is coming down So are the stars at the same place from where the rain is coming down? Can you say that? No, of course not. I don't think the quran is saying that And quran has a contradiction because quran doesn't know what the what the sky or the samah is Okay, what was the first verse you were talking about? I didn't get I was talking about surah bakra verse number 22 and chapter number 37 verse number six One talks about Sky as a place from where the rain comes down the other one talks about sky as a place where the stars are and Stars are in space rain comes down from within the atmosphere Sky clouds are not even you know 10 kilometers high in the sky Can I can I share my desktop here real quick? Okay, so let's look at these verses What does a quran contradicts itself? Should I put one more question to you before that? Let's let's do this one. Then I'll let you know you are breaking the format here. You're breaking the format here Okay, let's okay guys. Let's go back to the format. Let's let's go back to the format. Um What we're gonna do is I'm gonna give you go leave one more minute And then we're gonna go back to two minutes. Okay, so let's do that But you know the problem is because he wanted me to that's why I asked If you want to ask him questions and you're gonna have to give away your time If you want to ask questions during your time because that's what he did He gave away his time to give you to ask questions during his time So I will I will just refer to one more thing This is chapter number 38 verse 71 and 72 that talks about Man being created from clay And this is also a very ancient claim And in quran it talks about only adam being created from clay But in apric of gilgamesh you can go to this mess of mesopotamia creation Flood and the page is Basically page number is 16 and you can see that there is a goddess that creates humans from clay and it She creates humans in a way that she creates 14 males and 14 females And they don't even have the problem of incest between the sons and daughters of adam and eve because The ancient mesopotamians were even more intelligent than quran because they subverted or they averted this issue of incest Between the sons and daughters of of of the first created people But quran has this problem and islam has this problem Where there is sex between the sons and daughters of of adam and eve So, okay, let's go ahead and kick it back to the deer now. So can can he tell me why there we have this problem? Okay, so the quran the ancient mythology is more intelligent than quran Okay The quran doesn't talk about sex between siblings There's nowhere in the quran which it talks about that. Let me go ahead and share Can you guys see my screen? No, we can. Oh, can you see now? Yes, okay, so here's the verse which you quoted as I was telling you you asked me to you put some challenge before me Uh, yeah, I mean sometimes some can refer to sky sometimes it can refer to Uh, just this heaven this realm above our earth now here is this website It has 82. Oh, I'm sorry 62 different translations of the quran. Let's control f Control f sk y Yeah, some of them translated at sky Let's control f and go to heaven Yeah, some of them do translated as heavens Which which is I'm trying to point out to you that you will find in the translations as you can see in front of you Sometimes it could refer to sky sometimes it can refer to heavens now. That was chapter number 20 Surah 2 verse 22. What was the other verse you quoted? I'm sorry for I didn't write that down Uh, call up can you quickly tell me what that other verse should the other was was uh, this one in the surah So other other is chapter 37 verse 6 37 Okay, verse 6. Okay Well Okay, well, I want to go very quickly once I get this verse up here Okay, should I show it for you? So Once again, we see the same issue sometimes it's called heavens Some of the translators refer to it as sky So it has this interchangeable meaning now these are 62 different translations and that's my point to you So I don't think there's any contradiction there, but going back to your point about the clay Uh, this is actually from a scientific point of view is acceptable There is an article over here in the um, according to this is a daily mail article Uh, I should have went to the actual reference here. It says new theory Is that clay is a breeding ground for chemicals which is absorbed like a sponget Which eventually leads to proteins and DNA forming here Some scientists were actually pointing out that the bible is right about us being Originated with clay, but like I said my time is up. I have more to say about this, but I'll go ahead and let you respond Okay But still you are still stuck at that point You are talking about sky and heaven and you're trying to differentiate between sky and heaven Quran does not differentiate between sky and heaven and the words sky and heaven are not used in arabic It's uh, it's sama How do you differentiate that one sama means sky and the other one means heaven and even in english both things Mean the same thing. It doesn't it doesn't make a difference the claims that you made All these solutions that you try to give do not make any difference in that way So still the problem is still there. It's not going anywhere. It's it's still there You haven't been able to answer this and the the now you are showing us some christian websites and you're mentioning Evangelical christians as yeah, this is what you're doing. You know that this is what you're doing You're not showing us any peer reviewed papers and then you're saying that okay clay gives life Okay. Yeah, there are microorganisms, you know humans are not created from microorganisms humans And you you say your quran says that humans are made from clay And it also talks about Man being created from clay and then everything following from that So it does not give us any specifics. Secondly, you talked about That how do you confirm things? So and you said that there were some scientific things in the quran But the problem is what is the falsifiability criteria for quran and what is the testability criteria? There's no criteria all these verses that you are telling is just claims and the burden of proof is on you not on me Not on me. It's on you. It's on you clearly on you So give us proof that these two skies the skies that one from which rain comes down and the other one that is That is the that is where the stars are Give us a difference between them Okay, so I think that burden of proof is upon you to show that there is a contradiction The burden of proof is upon you to show that one is referring to only sky and can never refer to anything else never can refer to heavens Uh, which you cannot do because I've already shown you 62 different translations They all translated different way heavens skies So I think you have been refuted over there. The burden of proof is not upon me to do anything here Okay. Well, and this is kind of referring to do does the quran contradict itself. It's a little bit off of science I don't mind doing it, but I want to get back to this issue of modern science. So The article actually the daily mail is just your general news article. Okay That is not a christian website, but the but the main problem That's not very viewed either the main problem is what you are saying is when a lot talked about he created adam from clay This is talking about a miracle once again A miracle is something which which is supernatural which we as I've shown you from the references. It does not We cannot apply science to miracles only fools do that The issue about who adam was adam or the miracle created by god And so Nowhere does the quran saying that the quran that adam was created naturally adam was created Supernaturally. So this is something we have to make a distinction in the quran Is this talking about naturally happening or is this talking about something which is supernaturally happening? So you are once again attacking a miracle or a miracle claim of the quran and so There's no way you can prove a scientific error there. Now you did ask about The falsification I want to get on to that and I will show you very quickly an easy way To show a how the quran is to be falsified I will challenge you here today to produce one peer reviewed signed documented scientific article Which contradicts a verse of the quran take the verse of the quran show the article We don't need your explanation and show a contradiction between the two because we saw a lot of articles Which actually do agree with the quran about the sky falling having a ceiling hard thinking go ahead Yeah, so miracles you are saying you cannot give proof for miracles Yeah, that that proves that basically quran is unscientific when it talks about a miracle and cannot give proof That means it's unscientific because anything that cannot be given proof of is basically unscientific and stupid That's all and you said anyone would be fooled to ask proof for a miracle Yeah, that's why only fools believe in the miracles. That's why the only fools believe in the miracle Secondly secondly you you also talked about this heaven and you said that stars are in heaven Do you agree that stars are in heaven? Yeah, exactly and and and that stars are in space. So this means space is heaven, right? So the heavens is a domain within space. Yeah, so so basically space is heavens and stars are in space So what the hell is the earth in because it is also in space. So why don't you say that earth is also in heaven the other side? The earth is in the lowest heaven. Yeah No, earth is not in the lowest heaven Where does it I challenge you to give me a hadith or the quran that says that earth is in the heaven I'm not asking for a peer reviewed paper I'm asking for a hadith or a tafsir or a quranic verse anything anything goes, you know, give me one Yeah, so You're showing me going to answer real quick So it kind of doesn't matter because the whole issue about saying that there's the heavens up there There's seven heavens in no way does this contradict modern science No way to contradict any kind of thing which we know today of science These are the heavens which we I am referring to these are the domains which exist out there somewhere in space Now the question is okay. You got the seven heavens, but is that all is there is there something more to it? The quran doesn't State any of this now you made some claims that you know only fools believe in miracles Miracles is not proof. This is unscientific and stupid, but this is not the position of the scientific community This is atheist pseudoscientific quackology. There's a difference between the two There is no atheist science or pseudoscience, you know, that's just just stupid to say that Secondly again, you know earth is in the same space that the sun is and the proximate centauri and the alpha centauri are So earth is also in the heavens and quran never tells us that quran says that earth is flat You know earth is flat like a bat quran says that and you know And quran never says that earth is in the same heaven as the as the as the stars are because proximate centauri is Somewhere very far away very very far away four light years from us four light years from us is where proximate centauri is And basically rain comes down from within the atmosphere less than a hundred kilometers from us Even less than 10 kilometers from us is the place where the clouds are so do you think that The same domain applies to the atmosphere and also to four light years away from us Where proximate centauri is or eight minutes away from us where the sun is Oh, yeah, so basically um and why and why is the lowest heaven the place where the stars are because The lowest heaven according to this logic should be from where the rain falls down Allah should mention that the lowest heaven is there where from the from where the rain falls down But Allah is saying okay the lowest heaven is where from Where the stars where the stars are so this is basically, you know This is so confusing. This is so So and secondly again about the miracles, you know about them We don't believe in miracles because there's no proof for that You would have to give us evidence for a miracle to make me believe you're debating with an atheist You are not debating with a christian. Maybe you're under the impression that you're debating with a christian I am not a christian. I'm an atheist. Give me some scientific proof that so and so miracles happen You cannot give Yeah, we'll see. So the problem here is okay I understand atheists will not accept miracles, but I'm not here to convince atheists that miracles exist I'm here to talk about from a scientific perspective from a scientific perspective They do not confirm or deny miracles now I have already presented to you many references two references in which they talked about the supernatural It also it and I will quote you those again if you if you uh, if you want me to Well, it stated very clearly that science has nothing to say about the supernatural I'm quoting that and I've quoted you. I think two references one from how science works or how stuff works And from dr. Revile. So this is a scientific position now atheists, of course, they're going to deny miracles, but that's okay. I'm not here to convince them We are here to discuss science from a scientific perspective Now you said the earth is flat that the Quran states that the earth is flat Hey, listen, if the Quran states that the shape of the earth is flat You can show me that ayat. I will say Quran is wrong very simple. All you got to do is just show that Now i'm gonna i'm going to answer your challenge where you wanted a falsification So we have seen many articles today agreeing with the holy Quran But my question for you, can you produce for me one? scientific journal one reference from science which shows that The that there is a clear contradiction like for example what I have over here Uh, the roman physician galen Said blood formed in the liver. However, I can present to you from hematology.org red blood cells Start as immature cells in the bone marrow not the liver Notice the notice the irreconcilable contradictions I can literally take a statement of science right here And juxtapose it with this ancient roman physician galen And you can see the contradiction. So there's a falsification test and I will challenge you now here today Do the same thing as what I have just shown you with the holy Quran because and if you cannot then explain why you cannot go ahead Okay, so can I share my screen just for one more second here? Yeah, sure. Go ahead. So I'll ask I'll need to ask one question to him here So this is chapter 21 surah. Ambiya verse number 30. It says do not the unbelievers see all of Do not the unbelievers see Here it is talking about Seeing the separation of heaven and earth Okay, Quran is talking about the separation of heaven and earth So I want you nadir to tell me that who were the unbelievers Who saw the separation of heaven and earth because this is so stupid here This is so stupid here that Allah is making a claim that unbelievers saw the separation of heaven and earth Allah is making a claim that abu jahal and abu sufihan and all the unbelievers in makkah and madina Had seen or some other unbelievers had seen the separation of heaven and earth So can you give me a rational explanation of this because this seems to me an extremely absurd and stupid claim Just an extremely absurd and stupid claim. This is why I say that Quran is not scientific. It talks nonsense If a person would say that nothing if I would say nadir Ahmad Didn't you see the separation of heaven and earth and you never saw that this means that I'm lying So Quran is basically lying here Quran is basically lying here. And secondly, I talked about those two verses that contradicted explaining the two different places as sky You know, what does the contradiction prove the contradiction only proves that you are a liar Because if I say in one sentence that I am a man in the next that I am a woman And I'm contradicting one Contradicting these two statements are contradicting. They don't prove any either that I'm a man or a woman They only prove the first thing that they prove is that I'm a liar So Quran is basically telling lies in this one and that one too Yeah, so I think referring to the last point you made you were refuted by I showed 62 different references I'm sorry 62 different translations of the Quran Each of them translate the word samad either sky or it could refer to heaven sky or refer to heaven so what I'm showing you over here is that You know the word actually has two different meanings the word samad doesn't mean sky all the time So you then kind of shifted the burden of proof upon me to try to show Prove that this can only refer to that all that the burden of proof is on you to make the to to show this but This really isn't a sign referring, you know talking when you're just trying to point to a contradiction of the Quran Okay, now we can have that discussion. I don't mind But I feel that's a little bit off topic from the issue about sign about when we're trying to have a scientific discussion Now he tried to point out the verse that do not the unbeliever see and he says what what unbeliever? What do they see? So what he's doing? He's trying to say this doesn't make sense to me Okay, that's fine. The verse doesn't make sense to you But this is not the topic for tonight's debate Does this trying to convince and handhold ghalib through all these issues and say look, this is what it really This has nothing to do with as terms of contradicting scientific fact I came here to discuss and debate that where does the Quran contradict modern scientific fact? I didn't come here to try to convince ghalib try to make sense of the Quran to him We could have that discussion, but this is not the time in place for it So I will renew my challenge to you remember I have asked you tonight show me one article a peer reviewed from documented scientific Which contradicts the Quran in the same fashion like how I showed you take the verse of the Quran Take the scientific article show us a contradiction. Can you do that today? Please do Quran contradicts itself Quran proves itself that is it's a liar and the question is that is Quran scientific No, Quran isn't scientific Quran is a liar. Yeah, it is Quran follows the ancient cosmology. Yes That's it and you said that science says nothing about the supernatural. Yes Science says nothing about the supernatural because basically whoever makes the claim That that person or that you know body has to have the burden of proof That is the main scientific thing and when you make claim that Quran is scientific you would have to give us proof Of the scientific claims that are made in the Quran and you are saying that give me a paper that contradicts with Quran Quran contradicts with itself I told you that Quran is talking about two different places as heavens one is Within the atmosphere and the other one is four light years away. You know, that's basically that's basically so stupid And you haven't been able to answer this so far. You are just running away and then you are saying that it doesn't matter You don't need to prove anything To me. Yeah, so who do you want to prove anything to because there are three people here in this panel that are talking right now So the moderator is there. You are not proving anything to him. He's neutral Yeah, but you're proving something to the audience and you're not doing that You are not trying to prove them prove it to them that the word heaven or the sky or the word Samhain Quran makes any sense This is my claim that Quran is not science scientific Quran is nonsense And that's that proves it that two different two different parts of the universe are being Explained using the same word and it doesn't make any kind of sense at all that Quran is not scientific Quran is nonsense This is what I'm seeing So, you know, I think we're we're getting back to the point where you need to convince me Convince me that these words and try to make sense of these verses to you personally That's not what I'm here for. I'm here the the reason why I have accepted the challenge for this debate tonight Is because I wanted to see where does modern science Contradict the Quran not make the Quran makes sense to ghalib. Ghalib thinks is stupid Ghalib said you better show me proof for all these claims that you're making This is atheists pseudo scientific Quackology from a quack a logical point of view the Quran is wrong. I will admit But from a scientific point of view from a from a modern science point of view This is perfectly acceptable Of to make claims not having to all the time state your proof and evidence under every verse From a scientific point of view. This is perfectly acceptable. There's no problem that they have with this You know the you had a problem with science saying nothing about the supernatural now What you are doing you are actually attacking the science itself Okay, you are trying to improve you're trying to impose atheists pseudo scientific Dogma on the scientific community here But once so let it show for the record tonight. I have repeated my challenge three times Show me in the Quran where it contradicts documented scientific fact Ghalib was not able to do so. Okay, and this is something very unusual about the Quran We see a lot of verses which do agree with science. Sky has a ceiling. We talked about skies falling things like that That's so we we could see word for word agreement with with with modern science But I will repeat my challenge for the last time Show me just give me a peer review or some kind of scientific journal Take it and juxtapose it with the Quran like how I just did you know with that statement of the one guy And show me a contradiction. Ghalib don't run away. Don't talk about this doesn't make sense to me This is all stupid. I want you to show me that please go ahead Yeah, I showed you word for word similarities between Quran and the ancient mythology So when you say that this is Atheistic quickology. No, this is not atheistic quickology Atheism does not have you know any say in science Science is something that needs proof and when you say Quran is scientific You would have to give us the proof for Quran and you don't give us the proof for Quran You're running away from giving us any kind of proof for Quran. You're not giving us any kind of proof And you are failing to understand that if a book contradicts within itself Then that book is basically proving just one thing that it's a lie. That's all Secondly, the burden of proof is on you that you have failed to give us any kind of You know you say that okay, such and such thing is a miracle and that's all man created from clay That's a miracle. You cannot give us any kind of proof of that Yeah, that any kind of proof of that wouldn't be possible because that's just a lie copied from the ancient mythologies that I showed you on the screen and you are asking me that show me You know contradiction between modern science and And the Quran but I showed you similarities between Quran and ancient mythologies Those ancient mythologies were written by people who were stupid did not know anything about science And Quran follows their example. It is not giving us any kind of scientific proof for what it says It doesn't give us scientific proof that yeah, there are Missiles that are being shot at chin. What kind of proof would you give me for that? Give me a proof for this And secondly all the rocks that are roaming around in our solar system Basically most of their all of them most of them have been mapped And there are near earth has asteroids that we can see shooting by our by us We can see long tails of them, but all of them all of their paths have been mapped. So human beings are basically predicting that now a gene is going and a rock is following it You know, this is what is happening with Haley's comet all the time And Quran cannot differentiate between a asteroid and a star Quran cannot Yeah, this will be the last round and then we'll let Nadir you'll have the last word and then we'll go ahead and move to the Q&A Okay. Yeah, so to answer your question about showing proof for the Quran You know why the Quran is a scientific miracle. Yeah, you're right. I didn't really get into that tonight I tried to start but unfortunately I was I never got a chance to finish So the only reason why I'm not showing you any proof is because I just kind of got bogged down answering all these Objections, but God if you like you can definitely invite me again for a debate on is the Quran a scientific miracle And I will prove to you to Is a scientific miracle and so now the whole thing about whether the Quran contradicts itself You know, and I think we've had that discussion But let's just go along with what you're saying Let's just go along with it from a scientific point of view. They really don't Care what the issue here tonight is does the Quran contradict documented scientific fact, which we know To be true and that's really the type of discussion I was looking to have with you tonight But I think it was very clear you were not able to show anything like what you see on your screen Can you please show us share your share your thing over there? Show my screen. I'm sorry. It says over here We and I just give you another example the roman physician galen He made a scientific error blood formed in the liver But science tells us that red blood cells form in the bone marrow I can take an article from science right here I can compare it with a statement from the roman physician And I can show or any book of antiquity actually and I can show a contradiction between the two But you will never be able to do that with a Quran So when you say but I showed you that there's similarities between the Quran and ancient works Okay, but what the problem is if you're copying from ancient works You're going to commit mistakes like you're seeing on your screen over here You're going to copy their scientific errors into the Quran and you'll be able to answer the challenge Which you are not able to do so tonight. That is why we say look This is just another evidence for the Quran to be a scientific miracle I think this is something very amazing about the Quran You will find many scientific references which agree but not one that contradicts. Go ahead All right, so we'll go ahead and kick it into the q&a with that last word from the deer So thank you both so much for that spirited conversation. Let me just go ahead and get the timer ready and With that, I just want to let everybody know. Thank you so much for the questions We do have a little bit more room For the super chat So if you do have a super chat You want to make sure that your question gets asked to the debaters then go ahead and send me a super chat now And I will let you guys know when that list is too full to accept anymore So before we go to the q&a No, no more notes. Let's go ahead and start asking some questions. Let me start the clock right About now. Okay. So the first super chat comes in from aziz morani for 109 They say go go galib. Come on. Go. Love you galib sir. He's a fan out there galib. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, thank you Awesome. Thank you. All right. Thank you Yeah And then from big bad mama for one dollar. This was a question and uh came in two parts of the scroll They say uh nadir Do you believe that earthquakes blizzards hurricanes and other destructive natural disasters are a punishment for the people they Um, sorry move this over But the people they affect like the koran says That's very possible. It could now there could be many it could be a test could be a punishment So there's a couple of ways you you could you can um, you could interpret that But I think what we have seen from tonight's debate, you know from a scientific perspective The koran is in complete harmony with modern science. There is no contradiction now definitely atheists have their own personal beliefs And definitely the koran contradicts their personal beliefs, but not from modern science Yeah, should I answer it? Yeah, so basically earthquakes have nothing to do with the sins of anyone because there was a big earthquake that happened on 8th of october 2005 in pakistan in one of the most poorest places in pakistan That you know, it should have happened in some very sinful place on the planet I don't I don't want to name any Place, but it should have happened somewhere else But it happened there why it happened there because there are a lot of huge faults And fault lines going through the tectonic plates there There's this subduction zone of indian plate going under the uratian plate in the northern region of pakistan And it causes a lot of earthquakes in this region And every hundred years we have huge earthquakes in pakistan because of this Because of all these faults fault lines that run in In in in this area and and koran and islam do say islam does say that earthquakes are because of sin There are a lot of hadith There that say that The in in which the prophet said that the earthquakes come because of the sins of people But that is basically a scientific mistake and it it you know, it doesn't happen because of that And nadir you were saying that there are a lot of I haven't been able to show you any contradictions. I gave you one contradiction between the two verses of koran You haven't been able to say anything All right, let me do you have the last word there because it was his question So so as I said it could be because of the sins or it could just be a test So no and just because the koran said look some people were punished because of their sins that does not negate Uh, the science which is actually causing these things to happen No one ever interpreted the koran like that Uh, and as far as your last point about the contradiction you are trying to show internal contradictions within the koran As I said, we could talk about that. I don't have a problem talking about it But what I wanted I wanted you to show me an external contradiction between the koran and documented scientific fact And that was a challenge which you did fail tonight as we have all seen Okay, let's move on from ubi for 10 Euros, I think They say Those articles about the heart have been taken out of context It is talking about the patient's feelings and mental health after a heart transplant Not heart having its own feelings. This is what I've been telling him Oh, the the article stated very differently. I I've read it word for word. I can read it to you again We can go over it again It states very clearly that the heart actually does think in fact, I can share my desktop if I could Real quickly here and we can just go over it one more time Okay Oh, yeah, here we go. The heart's brain Neuro circulatory enabled it to act independently of the cranial brain to remember Make decisions and even feel sense. Okay. Now if you feel that this article is an error Then contact them. Okay. Go to heart math dot org and contact them. I also quoted, uh, let me get good to this article over here and um Click on that right over here Personality changes following heart transplant the cell the role of cellular memory There are actually dozens of articles which talk about the heart thinking about having neurons and so What I would advise or you guys to do write your own peer reviewed articles Get I mean write your own articles get a peer reviewed and when the scientific community starts to Agree with what you guys are saying. No the heart doesn't think at all Then I will say look then we are all wrong simple Go ahead. All right. It was Do you want to share my screen as well? I'm talking about the same That was a question for Nadir. So we should move on. Uh, we'll Yes, I respond to another question. I don't want my response. Nothing Yeah, I mean it's up to the moderator Uh, it's maybe real quick. Let's look at real quick. Okay. Go ahead. Okay So the same paper that he's talking about it explains here the acquisition of donor personality Characters by the city and following heart transfer rotation is hypothesis. I hypothesis size to occur via transfer of cellular memory And four types of cellular memory are presented epigenetic memory Not the memory that the brain has brain does not when we talk about the brain memory It is not epigenetic. DNA memory RNA memory and protein memory These are the four types of memory that a heart has it does not have the cerebral memory Okay, so these are the very research paper that you are showing me That is the abstract of that research paper that I'm showing you the same research paper Personality changes following heart transplant the full cellular memory It is not talking about the same kind of memory that is used in thinking It is the epigenetic memory the dna memory the protein memory not the Cerebral memory that is used in analytical reasoning and You're reading that into the article It doesn't say that I'm yeah, I I Betum from here. I read verbatim from We really must let him have the last word because it is his question. Yeah, sorry. You did not read it properly No, I I don't think the article contradicts anything of what I've presented. Okay I don't see any And when that when the article I quoted stated that it is in decision, you know in making the same article that you quoted I okay, you can go ahead and write your articles. This is wrong And then I will say look yeah, because I told the nature of memory that the article is talking about You got it got it got it. I know I know I know but just let him have the last word so we can just move on Okay, let's move on. All right. All right. So for the next question is from Uh Zargos Oscon for 199 they say did the six lover Split the moon into and how what Did the six lover split the moon into and how I don't even know what that means You know, okay, let's move on. Uh Sorry about that. Zargos From aziz morani for 199 they say nadir sir. You can be great pseudo scientist phd Yeah, so I think what's happening here is The atheists, you know, they're throwing rotten tomatoes. Okay. They're they're Here fail to show documented scientific fact which contradicted the Quran rather he tried to Resort is trying to show internal contradictions, which is kind of not really the topic then he tried to show Okay, well, it agrees with some of the ancient mythologies things like that so I think what's happening or with a quit with a questioner here is that uh, he's angry and uh, and I think uh, You know a lot of times in the question answer time they're going to start lashing out because they did not like what they saw in this debate Yeah, I'm sorry. I shouldn't have read that one. Uh, like I said before We do have to uh, keep it civil guys attack the argument and not be Now he's starting to attack me, you know, yeah very simple. Thank you. Thank you nadir for attacking attack you Yeah Okay, uh from bitter truth for five dollars They say hi nadir. You just misinterpreted science heart neurons that only fine-tune heart rhythm I just had to finish it because it's a it is a super chat. They did pay to have their words But and it wasn't an insult uh protect people from some certain heart disease Okay, uh bitter truth for five dollars. They say nadir. Why do some patients get, uh left Sympathetic de-innovation surgery, uh, why do they cut the nerve connected to the brain? I don't know. I mean these are we're all going back to the heart thing You know, which I think has already been exhausted and we just need to move on and get on to some other issue All right, uh from fact checker for five dollars. They say ghalib, uh make hi mary I'm not sure what this means Uh, I'm not going to read it anymore Bitter truth. They say uh for five dollars human made blood clot in three verses explain this nadir and ghalib Please compare with medical science. So this is for both of you Sure So what I can assure you is ghalib will never be able to bring up anything for uh from medical science Rather, he will give his own personal insight. So basically there is a verse in the quran which talks about Uh, alaqa now from a scientific point of view, this has amazed the scientific world Okay, let me present to you references showing the scientists who have actually talked about this when the quran compared the embryo to uh, uh, to a word the word alaqa has three meanings It means leech like it means a leech something which is leech like it could be clot and um Something which clings What astonished the scientists in fact, let me go ahead and give you the name of those scientists like professor keith more Whoops. Yeah, professor keith more Uh tvn prasad e marshal. These are all scientists who have actually spoke on this on this verse but not only that but Uh, this article actually you can uh, the whole issue about the word clot has made its way and said the national institute of health Uh, this is one of the most prestigious scientific journals in the world today So here is the article right over here again The the scientists were astonished at these three meanings of the word alaqa Because every one of them is absolutely true about the human embryo So i've presented to you three embryologists, but i'm sorry. Let me explain who dr keith more on again He is one of the most uh world's most uh premier embryologists and not only that but other embryologists have also spoken about that I've talked about tvn prasad E marshal johnson So many scientists have actually praised this verse for if scientific actually Accuracy and uh, again, here's from webmed central the same article about it being alaqa was presented over there to the for the scientists see So the article this word alaqa has won Uh, you know a great recognition from the scientific community and when when ghalib gets up He will not be able to present a single article to contradict what i'm saying From sign did not give a single article to say to prove it keith was basically hired by the saudi arabian king to write a book that proves that quran is scientific, you know And it did not prove that even he was He he's his book is very old and no one has been able to write another book like that one in the claims of you know muslim because People understood islam after that and he was the only one who got sold like that Secondly quran fails to when quran talks about embryology. It fails to account For the females eggs females role and it it does not even mention the role of the egg of the female it talks that Women are your fields. That's it. It doesn't talk about the female leg at all Even in the embryological miracle that you're talking about I challenge you to show me the role of the female egg that has more genetic information to create a human being I challenge you to do that right now Tell me that where quran mentions the female egg. It doesn't mention the female egg because Muhammad only knew things that were known at his time the pseudoscience of his time He knew that and most of the embryology that is mentioned in the quran Is copied from galen, you know, I can I can explain that but you know the time wouldn't allow that All of that is copied from galen and the greeks the ancient greeks a thousand years before islam 800 years before islam knew more about embryology than quran tells us I challenge you on that, you know, there's not enough time to explain it But you know, we don't need to give research papers to show their contradictions We would only need to show more information in the ancient greek knowledge and those are not revelations Those are the knowledge of human being that is the knowledge of human beings that they learned, you know Quran copies galen's embryology, but there were other greek philosophers and scientists who had more knowledge About the development of a child in a woman's womb You know, I can only respond to that very quickly. So you're basically trying to open up a new debate You made a lot of unsubstantiality claims Can wild If the time allows, I can show you that okay, I can I'll actually answer your egg challenge there I don't want to have talking over each other But I do I'm gonna let believe have the last Word on this one just because he's not gonna get a lot of the last word in all these questions Um, so I'm gonna let you finish the deer and but I'm gonna let believe come back and have the last word If there's a lot of question. Yeah, so go ahead Though the the fraudulent comment and accusation you've made against dr Professor keith more. This is nothing but wild conspiracy claims. This is atheist pseudo scientific Now you have accused of being paid off But I've quoted three different embryologists So I will challenge you here We'll be if you are gonna make accusations against people you should back that up with evidence Can you show me a cnn article or something from the news? Showing that he was paid off to substantiate your wild claims Yeah, uh, the only thing that we we need to show you is some ancient Ancient writing from the greeks that explained Yeah, because there are many that you made an accusation against him You made an accusation against him. Yeah, back it up with evidence But that's that's yeah, because because he was the personal physician of king fahad Yeah, that is one and his his book was distributed freely on the streets of paris by the sadi embassies Well conspiracy theories Anyone can found these articles on internet. Yeah And secondly just one sentence The embryology in quran You know, we can find better embryology than quran in the ancient text We don't need any kind of scientific paper from now to prove that quran is wrong because the ancient embryology proves quran Even, you know, because they had more knowledge about embryology than quran. Yeah Okay, let's go ahead and move on from bitter truth for five dollars. They say supernatural is just a face saving Ghalib. This is what happening by modern muslims nadir. Your explanation is a disappointment Yeah, it's definitely a Disappointment to the atheist pseudoscientific quacologist as I said the quran isn't complete Is contradictory Atheist pseudoscientific quacology, but as I have pointed out to you from a scientific perspective, and I've given many references Showing that the scientific community is has no problem with miracles the scientific world Say actually science Says nothing about miracles. So so for sure there are the conflict between the atheist way of thinking and But but that's not what I'm here to discuss We have come here to discuss from a scientific point of view So and as I was pointing out to you from a scientific perspective that they have pointed out that we are they're completely comfortable with a concept of miracles But there's no way you can really test Test it to prove that really happened or something like that. So anyways, go ahead. All right from Fact checker for five dollars. They say nadir. Why have you changed science with miracles? Uh in the quran there are verses which talk about the natural science And then there are also the verses which talk about the supernatural The problem here is that basically Focused on nothing but the supernatural verses like the creation of adam adam is that's a supernatural creation That did not happen naturally how adam was created. Okay So I what I did I pointed out to you What was the scientific position on miracles and it and there is no contradiction? There's no conflict between the scientific world and the concept of miracles So that's something which atheists have to bring their will to accept Gotcha from bitter truth for five dollars. They say Mohammed flown on donkey counted donkey 600 wings in microseconds pray in masjid I'm not sure what this word is a qsa and Aksa and flown And flown to seven skies uh Galib slash nadir both reply Yeah, so basically this is a logical fallacy as ad ridiculum. He's engaging in this Into this fallacy. He's trying to show that if the opponent's position is too absurd To be taken seriously But notice what's going on over here. We're veering away from the science And we're and we're moving into Atheist pseudo scientific quackology to the quackologists, of course, they're gonna have problems with the Quran They're gonna problems with all these teachings. Well, I have a problem with atheism Atheism also teaches some really crazy stuff, you know, like for example, how this whole universe originated I can laugh at that too. They say basically there was nothing and then something came out of nothing So in the same way that you can mock and ridicule my beliefs, well, we could do the same thing to yours In the end, what does this prove nothing? What we are seeing here is a retreat from the atheists They were not able to produce A contradiction between the Quran and modern science But rather this was a contradiction between the way they view the world So that and I think that's where this discussion is headed to. So they're really running away from the science Gotcha and Karim. Yeah, so first of all, you know, it wasn't decided in the way that another thinks the question is is Quran scientific And you know, we have to only prove that it is other than scientific. This is what I'm doing here I am proving that it is ancient mythology and and the question also came from this This person who asked the question that what about the sky journey of Muhammad to the seven heavens on a on a donkey-like You know creature. So the problem is this story even the story of Miraj Is copied from ancient Zoroastrian tale of Ardhaviraaf Nimaak where the Ardhaviraaf goes to seven heavens looks looks at the what is happening there We meets with the god Mazdak in the end. This is also copied from there And this is what I'm trying to prove here because all religions all of them Do it be Christianity Judaism anyone they copy from older religions and this is what Muhammad also did He copied from ancient religions. This is not science. This is basically all of that I've explained today is basically ancient mythologies. It's not science. It has nothing to do with science And when we have these stories in ancient books and Quran is explaining that once again like the story of Miraj or the story of Isra and Miraj and all of these other stories The interpretation of these stories has already been done in those ancient books And if you want to understand what those stories mean These stories mentioned in the Quran you would have to read those ancient sources and you would Understand more that where the Quran is coming from and Muhammad is basically doing Pleasureism at that time and there were no fines and punishments for plagiarism at that time. That's why I want to let everybody know of right now fair warning we have more Super chats than we have minutes left in the Q&A. So I'm going to push these guys to get all of these questions answered But we're going to try to get these short and pithy Can we move on Sure, sure, uh bitter truth for five dollars. They say god made this universe six days. Uh, sahih muslim 2789 hadith Tells the days madir and ghalib reply isn't this error No, not at all. So but I like where we are going to now Where we are actually headed to they're they're getting out of the science They know that they cannot win the the the debate on science because the Quran is in complete harmony with science So what they're trying to do I think is they're trying to show some kind of Internal contradiction. They're trying to this ridiculous teachings stuff like that, you know, they're trying to smirk mock ridicule So I'm of course, I don't like it But I'm glad to see them retreating away from modern science because as we have seen tonight Ghalib was not able to make his case from that rather. He's trying to Uh, he's trying to uh, basically rest his arguments on plagiarism plagiarizing from ancient sources But this really wasn't the topic for that, you know, I mean we came here to talk about science But that's what has already been refuted. I think And he's been and what was the real I think uh, blow to his whole argument is if you copy from these ancient sources Then you will copy the scientific errors Into the text like as I've shown from gaolin where you're talking about the blood liver Also, the blood is made in the liver You're gonna make mistakes like that if you copy from those other books But we don't find that in the Quran and that is one of the miracles of the Quran and we've asked him We've asked him to show those scientific errors and he was not able to do so In fact, he failed in fact the exact examples He was trying to give us scientific errors about the star about the sky having a ceiling about the sky falling about I forget what the other one They all actually agree with science. The scientists are actually saying the exact same things which we read in the Quran So there were miserable fails, which actually backfired on him. It actually showed the agreement between the Quran and science but Like I said, and I didn't really understand much more about that six days, but go ahead. Okay So you said sky can fall, you know, you show me a piece of the sky and I will make it fall Yeah, that's my challenge to you You show me a piece of sky the sky that you're claiming show me a piece of that sky and I'll make it fall down Yeah, this is my challenge. You show me the piece of that sky and and what was the question? Can you repeat it? I'm sorry. I'm really sorry. Oh god made this universe in six days from sahih muslim 2789 hadith tells the days, uh Yeah, yeah, yes an error. So yeah, yeah, so so the problem is this universe is 13.8 billion years old and our earth According to Quran the earth was created first then the mountains and then the sun and the moon the problem is You know earth was not created before the star quran in suray ambia says that earth was created first Then the mountains were created then the sun and the stars were created. But the problem is that the problem is that That earth was created only four Earth came into being only four point six billion years ago. So I'm debunking Quranic quack cosmology here, you know, basically quranic quack cosmology Basically, I'm debunking it here There the order of things is extremely wrong because the order of things is that 13.8 billion years ago The big bang happened nine billion years ago the milky way came into being 4.7 billion years ago the sun And then the earth and later on the moon came into being all the mountain On the face of Are less than two less than 100 million years old. Yeah So one of the biggest mistakes he's making here is if you listen to the to the questioner He was quoting sahih muslim not the quran. So but anyways, like I said that can be very talked about the quran I give reference to All right, all right, all right, let's move on from fact checker for five dollars Nadir What do you think about james web as we are getting information close to big bang? So where is the sky? and and a lot So I don't I don't make that affirmation that the quran is specifically referring to the big bang I don't argue people do argue that. Yeah, I mean it could be it could be very possible That it could be referring to the big bang, but I just don't think there's enough evidence But going back to you know, the creation of the earth the creation of adam If you read the quran, as I said that you've got two The science falls into two different categories. You've got the supernatural and then you've got the natural You know like for example, there's many and this is also another important point When the quran talks about how the world naturally works Ghalib ran away from all those statements about how the world naturally works. For example, the quran makes four statements about the about the natural Science of the bees two three statements about bees two statements about alcohol and the list goes on It talks about the science about the natural world, but we didn't hear any of that tonight Rather, we talked about the supernatural the earth Adam this is something which was supernaturally created by the very hand of god This is what we as muslims believe from a scientific perspective. That's perfectly fine to argue that in fact I have a reference over here where they say how the earth was actually created is still a mystery Science doesn't know a whole lot about it. However, in fact, let me get that reference for you real quick So when the quran says look the quran that the earth was made from a miracle from as a miracle Again, this is something which is which is which is an agreement With modern science and of course, you know now I think what's happening, you know, I think ghalib is taking some cheap shots I don't have the opportunity to refute every point because we're in the question and answer time, but Let me just show you that reference over here. How did the earth form it states over here the formation This is actually i'm quoting from the website space.com the earth's formation Remains strange and is a scientific mystery So the following axios article the earth's formation is a long-standing mystery So when Allah says in the quran that in the following article over here space.com again Scientists still aren't certain how planets are built. So when Allah says look, this was something created supernaturally referring to the earth This is consistent with what we know with scientific data as I've shown you from the references on the screen Okay, from bitter truth for five dollars. They say the moon split and joint back the deer. Please show me the evidence Ghalib, please reply on this Yeah, so this is once again, we're seeing that Where the where the atheists are running to the talk is talking about the earth splitting this is a great miracle Which god did Through muhammad. Why are we talking about miracles? You know why? Because ghalib and all these atheists you see in the in this question question period here They're all running away from the natural signs of the quran. You know why they're running away from that? It is in complete Harmony with modern science the quran makes dozens of statements about the natural scientific world And how you know how the world works and things like that Pretty much nothing of that was discussed in this debate because they cannot argue their case from that Rather, they're going to the miracle statements and they're saying look There's the earth or up to the moon split does this moon split naturally No, it does not The quran made it very clear or actually the spot on the teeth that this was a supernatural event So once again, it is in complete harmony with science So when you say that it yeah, when you say that it is a supernatural event So I hear la la la this is what I hear because you have no explanation. You are just making a claim Oh, no Are you still there? If something is true, you can give proof for that, you know And this this miracle never happened and let's say if the moon was split, you know If the moon was split moon being such a large A significant gravity on our earth If the moon was split, you know, there would be a gravitational anomaly anomaly that would have a Substantial effect on the oceans of the earth. There would be some tidal shifting going on and you know A lot many people would be able to see it. No one saw it There are there are no there's just one claim from the muslims that someone in in india saw the moon split No one in turkey saw the moon split. They were just above, you know and on the same On the same longitude on the same latitude, but no one saw it No one saw it in italy. It was very close to that place where the where the rabbi is nearly, you know, not many Lettitude's away from that. No one saw it. So that's just a lie. That's just a lie This miracle never happened or otherwise if it happened It was an illusion that Muhammad did and someone was fooled by and the muslims continue to choose to be fooled by it. That's it Can I can I answer real quick? I'll take very quickly So he tried to get into the science of what would happen if the moon was actually split and I would agree with that If this was to happen Naturally, then all the What you have described would happen But what you're not getting is it's it's not made it very clear. This is happening super naturally Just like how modus split the water, you know, this is again one of the many miracles So he said well, basically, well if the moon split America's not nice. We would have one. Okay. Okay. I'm sorry. Yeah, okay Uh, for fact checker for five dollars. They say no dear. Please explain about Muhammad's journey to seven the seventh heaven on a donkey Please explain Yeah, no, it wasn't on a donkey once again. They're engaging and mocking and ridiculing. This is again We're seeing here what is a retreat A retreat from the atheist are running away from the science of the Quran The natural science of the Quran the Quran made many statements about seas bees oceans And alcohol and I mean it actually went into the science of these things Why are they running away from that? You know, why because this is incomplete harmony with modern science So now what the atheists are doing? They're trying to go it into the miracles And in the miracle statements like for example, whether you want to talk about god taking Uh, Muhammad, you know on a specific creature up to the you know to jerusalem These are all miracle claims. There's moon being split. Why do these things happen naturally? No, it doesn't happen naturally But in atheists pseudo scientific They deny miracles because in their Quackological uh at the at the at the academy of atheists pseudo scientific Quackology it states over there that miracles can never happen. That's fine. You can have that belief But this is not a scientific position. I came here to debate science But we're not debating science. We are debating plagiarism. We're debating internal contradictions We're debating everything but science because they cannot argue their case from the from from science because the Quran isn't complete harmony with science All right from search for truth for five dollars. They say islam sanctions incest cousin marriage Consanguine consanguinity I'm not saying that word correctly marriages among couples who are related as second cousins or closer That's just a statement. So i'm not gonna we move on from that. Let's go ahead Fact checker for five dollars. They say nadir science has no time for these stupid religious science They have to do some positive things. So that's also the statement. So we're gonna move on from that one Aziz morani for four ninety nine. They say my uncle says that when a person Get big beard on his face normally gets brain dead. Is that true? Yeah, can I answer that real quick? So this guy aziz morani, he's spending a lot of money here To basically make comments of insults and abuse towards me and let me just finish his statement Donkeys flying sky falling what it's all this. Sorry go ahead. Like like I said, you know, they're they What this debate proved tonight those atheists got hurt in this debate. So now they're lashing out They're throwing rotten tomatoes, you know, they're not engaging in intelligent discord discourse They're not really engaging with the arguments which they've heard tonight And so I see this as a positive sign They saw something in this debate which they did not like And so now there's this guy spending a ton of cash trying to insult me and that's perfectly fine I don't think it's gonna do any damage All right, so we've got four seconds left on the clock guys Um, I've got 11 questions left on the list. Can we do some overtime? Yeah, we can do some overtime. Yeah Let me do a question If you can Yeah, uh, but you know what we should do we should do a debate on is the Quran a scientific miracle ghalib You already promised a debate with me on slavery in Islam. You know, will you accept that? Yeah, I will accept that. Let's do it All right, so from fact checker, let me get back to you on that Okay, all right for five dollars. They say the deer science has no oh wait. I'm sorry. That's a copy From aziz morani. So only 10 How much did you spend this time? No, I'm sorry from bitter truth for five dollars. They say cashmere cashmere earthquake mosque collapse And poor people with fasting in ramadan dies But rich people it happened in war. Okay I'm sorry This this earthquake happened in ramadan Lots of Yeah, this is a philosophical issue And I'm just finished reading it. You know, we have to respect the people who said the comment. Yeah Yeah, let me just finish reading that Rich people's center were okay. Was that a blessing on them nadir and ghalib You know, again, we're uh, we're once again veering off From the topic of science and getting into the issue of why do bad things happen to good people That's a that's a philosophical issue and I'll very quickly answer that Remember, I said this could this could be a punch friend. This could also just be a test a test of some kind I thought I made that very clear so But what I'm hearing the question and answer period and I'm really liking it What I'm seeing from bitter truth and from the other people Is that they're not able to challenge the science of the quran? What they're doing in the question and answer time is that they're trying to throw a hail mary attempt They're trying to find some way to salvage this debate to try to show islam as well It has been lost. I agree. I like that. I agree. It has been lost and and uh, and I think it was I think the part which really, uh, how shall I say Sent the message home was the great challenge. I pointed out. I presented that you should be able to present If if muhammad was copying from pagan sources and we looked at a pagan source from galen You know, you will find scientific contradictions in the in the quran you should be able to get a scientific reference and Just to pose it with a quran and show the contradiction Zalib was not able to do that tonight And I think that really sent the message home. Now. That's why they're last Interrelant contradiction that you haven't been able to answer that. Okay. We can talk about your Prediction Zalib, but that doesn't answer my challenge Okay, see Zalib look my point to you is whether the quran engages and has internal contradictions Is a very different topic from the challenge because when when someone has a contradiction with their own world And they are lying Prediction only proves one thing that you are a liar. This is not the topic of tonight's debate. That's the problem Yeah, because because this is the this is contradictions one-on-one if you contradict with yourself, you're a liar Because we're not here to determine the quran is a liar. That's not the topic Yeah, quran is not scientific quran is a liar quran copies from ancient mythology Gala that's not the topic quran is quran is a plagiarism. You know a book based on plagiarism Yeah, that's it. That's that's all but I wanted speaking allegation You think I was trying to prove something that you know, there are so many other things in the quran I only had to prove that quran is not scientific but rather methodological You know a lot of uh contradictions in it This is what I wanted to prove and I have been successful in that You're a little riled up, you know, I have a mask you cannot see my smile. You know, I really love you Well smiling. That's a good thing. I like that. I keep smiling You think I'm angry. I'm not angry. I'm very happy. I know you're smiling and I'm happy to see that I do want to remind everybody in the chat that we are now in overtime. So uh, the list is closed as far as questions I'm not gonna add any more to the list because uh, the the gentlemen on the screen now are generally have generously Volunteered to stay past the time to answer more questions, but I'm not gonna add any more to it So if you send more super chats, uh, if you need to send james an email about that I'm sorry if I did leave a warning. So that'll be up to him if he wants to issue any kind of refund on that Uh, so the next question From fact checker for five dollars nadir. I wish the next Nobel prize you get by proving science in the quran Well, that's going to be the next debate I hope ghalib will accept that challenge is a quran a scientific miracle and right now. We just checked We would have to talk about the slavery one, you know, yeah, we could do both So stop Yeah, stop challenging me on that one right now. First we do the slavery one then we do this Definitely. Okay. So then you'll do the science one after that. So that debate's coming up and uh, you gotta stay tuned for that All right from varun for two dollars. They say nadir. Can you please show proof of the moon splitting? I can know whether the moon split. We don't have to show proof for that The issue tonight is does the quran Contradict science the quran makes many claims tonight I mean many claims it doesn't have every religion Makes many different kind of supernatural claims. This is one of the many miracles for example moses split the Split to see is there any proof for that? No from a scientific perspective. Is that okay? Yes, from an atheist that also never pseudoscientific Quackalogical perspective. Is that okay? No I have I've already conceded tonight the quran contradicts atheist pseudoscientific Quackology, I'm accepting that tonight. But from a scientific perspective, it is absolutely acceptable This is one of the miracles which the prophet Muhammad did and science is totally cool with miracles Miracles are not science nadir I didn't say that I wanted to prove it. I already prove You know, if quran has miracles then quran is not scientific because miracles are not scientific miracles as pseudoscience Quackology, you know the word quackology that you're using that is specially Reserved for miracles, you know, there are so many people that are doing miracles today even in pakistan. They're all quacks Yeah, that's why quran is a book of quackology Yeah, not not science quackology All right from uh, can use a pack for two dollars canadian. They say quran says bones formed before flesh in embryos Yeah, it does it does it does say All right Because the bones develop later on No, there's the quran doesn't say that It does say that it does say that if we have time I can show you Okay, well, we'll have to debate that another time. Let's Maybe these questions Well from oliver b. Perez for five dollars. They say nadir. Can you prove god exists? Can he be summoned or roused to show himself? How can I find him without dying? Yeah, I believe well what we can prove We can prove that the quran is a scientific miracle What this means is that the quran makes many statements which agree with modern science Which scientists have only recently discovered today And this knowledge was not present was not available 1400 years ago So now the question is how could a man 1400 years ago have this kind of knowledge? How could he do these things and and when you and so this is an evidence for why god exists Now does god talk does god can I bring down and summon god? I cannot do any of that So as I said in this life, there is a test And and and there we have to pass that test And you can know that islam is true because of the scientific miracle that we're going to do that debate after the slavery debate Which which gala was uh was mentioning All right from zagros oskan they say for 199 uh six lava Arrow over to muhammad. How did he split the moon? We're going back to that So the issue here. This is again. This is uh, you know a miracle which took place I think we've already talked about moon split. Let's just move on. Let's not Whip this dead horse great. Yeah bitter truth for five dollars. They say nadir, uh, laka Problem why keith more didn't convert to islam embryo stages. No blood role. This is your own interpretation Embryo stages. No blood. I don't understand last but the whole thing about why did he convert to islam nadir? Can you please tell us why? Well, well, okay, so so wait a second Barrett in a christian grave in a christian cemetery, you know, what his beliefs are okay From what I understand he he believes the way Majority of the world kind of believes many people they do accept prophet muhammad As a true prophet they do accept jesus But what they believe is that it doesn't matter if you have to go if you're a christian or a muslim It doesn't matter if you go to church or a mosque So long as you're a good person That's good enough. You can be a good christian and go to heaven You can be a good muslim and go to heaven Now, I don't know exactly how much of that he actually believes But a lot of people will embrace islamic theology islamic beliefs and so But but they don't actually make a conversion in islam because they don't see that need because this of course is not a right belief But majority of the world actually do that but they but it's undeniable. I mean what gala did he slandered dr. Keith more Okay, he slandered. Yeah, I'll do that again. I'll do that again. He presented, you know, all these Conspiracy theories, but the issue it's it's not just keith more. I have already presented to you You know articles from from actually from the NIH a national library of medicine Where this this the whole issue about embryology in the quran was submitted to them, okay? and They they were in fact, let me show you the article right over here NIH national library of medicine. They do not they do not publish I can tell you that right now. Okay. Here. We see in a muslim brother He of sister actually submitted the article and they went ahead and I don't know their peer review process But they went ahead and published it and they found it to be very interesting about the about the science in the quran But like I said, it's just not him Many embryologists have come forward not just keith more who have who have Went on the record and said what the quran said about embryology is absolutely amazing And remember my prophecy I did a lot of will not be able to present any Since any references to support his case because his case is nothing but conjecture and slander And and and I don't know just kind of a nefarious view on all of this. Should I should I respond to this? Yeah, yeah, very short response. So keith more believed in the scientific miracles of quran but never believed in Islam as being true. He believed in the truth of scientific miracles of quran. Oh, we don't know that Never believed that Islam was true. He never cared about Islam enough to accept Islam He never accepted prophet Muhammad as the prophet because if he believed that quran was quran had so many scientific miracles in it And he wrote a whole book explaining those miracles Then, you know, he might have been so stupid to not believe in the book And the prophet that brought that book Even though he had all the reasons to believe in the miracles of quran So this proves that he was a hypocrite. Nothing more than that. He's just slandering. He was a hypocrite. Yeah Yeah, he's a member from the Tell me tell me why didn't he he believed in Oh, we don't know what he believed Why didn't he convert to Islam if he would explain it to you You didn't you didn't you God have been just engaging in slander No, I'm not engaging in slander. I'm just and you know, I have nothing against you If you are understanding me wrong here, you know, I'm really sorry my only Uh idea is to discuss the claims that you are making and you made a claim about this dr Keith Moore and you said that he was the one who proved the quranic miracles And I'm trying to explain the logic to you that if he was such a believer of quranic miracles And such a believer that a devout muslim like you is supporting him. Yeah, I explained it to you I did not believe in Islam even then What you are making the mistake you're making we don't know what he believed Okay, we actually don't know what he below that. He's buried in a christian cemetery Okay, well, we'll show you got a show. Yeah, that that actually proves nothing As I told you many people who they embrace islamic theology, but they remain christian Okay, many of you believe in Muhammad as a true prophet But they have this belief that it doesn't matter if you you don't have to be a Be a muslim you don't have to go to church to be good to go to mosque to be good Just just continue as a good christian believe in in all the prophet don't commit shirk and i'm going to go to heaven Okay, i'm not going to like this one. We can so that explains why uh, you know, uh about keith more We can move to the next one, but at the end of the day, we don't actually can move to the next one I'm not going to reply to this one. Okay. Let's move on to the next one. Shall we From can use the pack for two dollars nearly and they say nadir karan sperm from between backbone and ribs Yeah, so I I'm liking this one. So basically what we're seeing is that this is a They're trying to find some way to salvage this debate. I like these type of disparate debate is lost The debate is lost. You don't need to explain it So I like I like what like I said, I like what I'm seeing here You know, they're trying to find some way to find some error in the koran and uh, so so that to me I see that as being very, uh, promising Uh, they're not really engaging with any of ghadib's arguments I mean, that's that's something which is really good. So anyways, let me go ahead and very quickly, uh Answer this issue about the backbone and the ribs. So basically the verse, uh, in fact, I don't know how much time I have here So, well, we do we have we still have some more questions. Uh, can we just you just give them a real quick and pithy Yeah, so basically I'm going to go very quickly over here that if you look over here Science today tells us that the back we understand the backbone and the ribs to be this chest cavity But science today tells us that there's also another area of the backbone of the ribs It's right here You've got the ribbed right here and you've got the backbone going all the way to the tailbone Now semen goes shoots up through this tube over here where the tube called the vas deferens right over here And notice where it's located right between the x and this is I'm sorry. This is wrong This is x and y axis Right between the backbone and the ribs the ribs are up here and the backbone is over here So once again, we see the scientific accuracy of the Quran Okay, and from the semen just one statement semen is semen is born in the testicles. Yeah, that is where it comes from that's all Through the vas we don't need we don't need a peer reviewed paper to show that it's all in the books of You jump through the vas deferens the vas deferens is between the backbone and the ribs Okay, and then from varam for two dollars they say nadir did the sun set in muddy water today Yeah, if the if the if the Quran says that the sun Goes into murky waters Then this is of course clearly wrong But that's not what the what the Quran says the Quran says that the sun Into murky waters and what this means is that this is the way it appeared to be So the Quran once again is in complete harmony with science. There's no contradiction here But like I said, if you could show me where it actually says yet Which in Arabic mean it physically goes into murky waters Quran is wrong and I will and I'll stand by that statement But you'll never find anything like that in the Quran Okay, so that's all the questions after from before I gave the warning And then I gave the warning and then uh, people still kept on sending a super chat So I've got nine more questions left. We're gonna do double overtime Okay, okay. Uh, it's it's okay with me. Nadir. Let's do one more question. I get going. It's like 10 30 over here One more question All right, I'm gonna do the question that people uh, that was the most expensive one Pineapple platypotomous They said a $20 super chat 20 bucks. Yeah Oh Well, you know, other people like you they can send $20 for you. You know, they love you. I also love Oh, thank you. I'm gonna read that one. Thank you so much pineapple platypotomous I've had many indian friends and I'm a christian Is this god or is this just my wanting of indians being my brothers and sisters in christ You know, I don't know how to answer that question But one question I will ask you is why don't we see regardless Whoever you think won or lost this debate will leave that up to you But at least i'm here at least muslims are here to debate science in the quran Christian we thank you for that Christians will not come forward and debate the science inside their book because they know that there are many scientific errors In the bible and it's indefensible. In fact, I challenge david wood I've challenged many of these christians like christian prince and people like that. They all ran away So at least we are here debating that Yeah, all right Now that you invite someone to debate on the bible and I'll join you against the bible They're gonna run away. I'll be I'll be I'll be in new york. You know against the bible Well, the christians will never come forward to debate science in the bible because they know it's it's it's indefensible All right, I've got a chatter that is uh insisting that they set their chats before I issued the warning Is there any chance that you can take two more? Yeah, yeah, that's fine. I'm so sorry From argon cooper for 10 canadian they say nadir you started the journal medical hypotheses Which has a very low bar of rigor because it is precisely for hypotheses rather than reports of thoroughly investigative experiments I did not cite You did you did It's the general of my medical hypothesis. It's not It's not the same thing that you or which argument at least not that I know which which one I talk about Should I show it? You know, can you show my screen? Yeah So this is a general of medical hypothesis. This is not this is not confirmed science. This is the same article This is the same This is your article. This is your article the same title the same general That's not my article. Yeah, this is your article. This is your article I showed the same article that you showed I mentioned at the same time. Yeah Basically, this was published in the general of medical hypothesis Yeah, what I quoted you. I believe it was something called The title of that read the title Let me let me get you do that. This is the same one. This is the same one. Okay. No, I did not let me show you mine real quick Okay, just to Little the matter here Let's see one second The article which I quoted is something called heart math dot org Yeah, so but I am showing the journal you are not showing the journal you are showing a website I am showing the journal. You are not showing the journal You are not showing the journal I am showing the journal. Okay. Let's move on. I think it's this website that refers to the journal I showed the journal and it's a medical hypothesis journal not Not a journal that is Accepted scientifically. This is not explaining an observation. This is giving an giving a hypothesis I explained it then but there was enough time so I did not explain it properly. But even if that is true, even if let's just go along with what you're saying, the point here is the scientific community is learning as we go. They're learning about how the heart thinks, how the heart makes decision making. So you're making claims on something that the scientific community is still learning. Okay, so what I'm saying is this is something which I was actually confirmed. But what I'm saying, even if you were to agree with what you're saying, there is a science are now researching this about how the heart thinks. Therefore you really cannot claim scientific error. You claim it as established science. You will claim it as established science. It is hypothetical right now. Hypothesis does not mean a scientific fact. That is the very definition of hypothesis. You did that. I didn't do that. People can watch this bit again later. When people have memory lapses due to dementia or Alzheimer's, do you think brain is the organ of investigation in scientific studies or the heart? Should I answer it or he should answer it? I would say for brain. It's for him. For brain. All right. I really am conflicted. But you guys have to go, right? Yeah, it sounds very quickly and I got to get going. I'm so sorry. 699 from Shiraz, Canadian, they say if all is non-scientific statements are supernatural, doesn't it make Quranic claims unfalsifiable? Okay, so basically the point which I was trying to make over here is that, in fact, let me very quickly share my desktop over here just so we can see what science actually says. First of all, when we talk about miracle arguments, miracles in the Quran, they are not unscientific, okay? Unless you have your own personal definition of what science is. So once again, I'll just show you very quickly here. We'll go to miracles. Let's go there real quick. And this is, I'm quoting from the website, science, how stuff works, how stuff works says over here. This places certain topics beyond the reach of the scientific method. That's what miracles are. Science cannot prove or refute the existence of God or any supernatural entity. Now, of course, the statements in the Quran about miracles happening, you cannot prove or disprove that. You cannot prove or disprove Jesus walked on water, Moses splitting the sea, Muhammad splitting the moon. These are statements of supernatural. And as we can see over here, science is okay with that. And from the following article it says over here, because science has nothing to say about the supernatural world, does not mean that it denies the supernatural world. Atheists do that, but not scientists. So I think the problem- Okay, should I respond to it very quickly? Yeah, go ahead. Sure. So when you say is the Quran scientific and then, you know, when it mentions miracles and miracles are unfalsifiable, untestable, there's no testability criteria for testing a miracle. So this means that Quran is unscientific. So the question was, when Quran mentions miracles, is it unscientific because it's unfalsifiable? Yes, it is unscientific because it's unfalsifiable. And anything that is unfalsifiable and lacks testability criteria is basically unscientific. And that was the question of the debate today. And this proves that Quran is unscientific because it is unfalsifiable and lacks the testability criteria for miracles. Yeah. But that's not the definition of scientific. You've come up with your own definition. In fact, I can share my screen right here. Yeah, because you can basically any scientific, I'm talking about a scientific fact. Okay. If you talk about the scientific fact. I was going from the dictionary. And it has to go through the testability. What unscientific is, okay. It is not in accordance with scientific principles or methodology. Yeah. So falsifiability. Hold on. Yeah, falsifiability, testability is the scientific methodology. It is a scientific principle. We can't talk over each other. We can talk over each other. Okay. So the point here is we can go through many, I mean, this is just one of the many definitions of what unscientific is. So I actually quoted scientific methodology in the two articles I presented about their position towards miracles. They're perfectly fine with that from a scientific community. You will not find any of them claiming science that miracles are unscientific. The only people who do that are atheist people. That's their personal belief. So you are confusing your own personal dogma with science. Many atheists think, okay, just because I'm an atheist, I'm a scientist. Uh-uh. It doesn't work that way. Yeah. So I think you gave your own definition. You forgot to mention that's atheist. Yeah. Well, that's true too. You forgot your own definition of what's unscientific. Okay. Okay. I'm just going to rattle these three off real quick, nonstop. I'm not going to pause in between them just so we can get them all out of the way and everybody's happy. Okay. Can use a pack for $2 Canadian. They say Nadir 1666 milk comes from between feces and blood, and they say Nadir truth for $5. They say God sends gins. They fought to each other. God sent angels to limit the gins. They then God created Adam Nadir. Show me the evidence rational mind $10. They say Nadir just takes everything out of the natural world to this metaphysical realm and then goes on to claim anything in that realm because that's the world of miracles. So that's all the questions. Yeah. So basically what we're seeing here is people are trying to raise all these other objections against the Quran, but none of them are borrowing or even from Gala stuff. Gala was here for almost two hours. Notice none of them are buying into what he is saying. And these are his own followers who are asking his questions. So what this shows is that they were not convinced by anything. So they're coming up with these other issues like feces between, I think the milk coming between the feces and the blood or something like that. Definitely we could debate that. We kind of ran out of time, but I'm very pleased with what I'm seeing from the atheists that they are not buying into Gala's arguments. And to me that's a very reassuring thing. They're trying to now present other objections. What they're trying to do, they're trying to salvage this debate. That's why I hate all atheists. I hate all atheists. And I like what I'm seeing. Okay. Okay. I forgot the questions, you know. So the milk comes from between the feces and the blood, you know. That's just stupid. It comes from the... Actually it's scientifically correct, but we'll get into that later. It's not. It's not. Okay. Well, that's it. Everybody got their questions asked. I really appreciate you guys for sticking around for a double overtime Q&A. That's insane. But this was a lot of fun. Yeah, I really like to thank Nadir. You know, Nadir, you know, we love you. You are brother. And thanks for coming up for this debate because, you know, the dialogue must go on. And I really thank you. Thank you brother for appearing. Thank you both. Yeah. And I want to thank any of the moderators in the chat that were there. Thank you to James. Thank you guys as well. Thanks guys as well for moderating us today. You know, it's a pleasure. You're welcome. Thank you so much. And everybody who sent in the super chats, all of you guys, thank you so much for elevating the conversation. Thank you to the Baters. You both have the light flow of the show and everybody else. So if you liked it, like it, if you love it, like it, if you want to spread it. Like, like, like. Many more juicy debates coming your way. King Crocoduck versus David McQueen, October 21st, 5pm. Like and subscribe. You don't want to miss it. And we have many more debates coming your way. Our speakers are linked in the description below. So click those links, check them out. Do it right now. Thank you everybody. Have a great night and remember, keep sifting out the reasonable from the unreasonable. We're out of here. Good night.