 Okay, so welcome everybody once again to class on Christian counseling I'd like to welcome all those who have joined us on the e-learning platform as well as all who are here right now on the live session with me. I'm looking forward to a wonderful interaction and experiential learning because Christian counseling is all about you know conversations and interactions and you know, there isn't a cookie cutter method for counseling and each person who you're going to meet is unique and different and the way these sessions may go it would be very different from sorry one to another so we're going to be learning we're going to be interacting there are going to be many examples that we need to bring up like I said, you know Counseling theory is one but practicum is something very very different. So let's just start with a word of prayer and let's get started. So Heavenly Father we thank you Lord for this time that you have kept and preserved each one of us Lord through the last couple of months and you have brought us back here once again to resume learning in a flesh season Lord we come to you for a greater understanding and wisdom and knowledge as we touch upon this topic on Christian counseling thank you because called each one of us to bear each other's burdens to support one another to encourage one another To bring others to the faith and to maturity in you father even as we learn and understand Lord We pray that you our greatest counselor will be in our midst and help us through this journey Help us to understand concepts that may not be easy Lord help us to Lord help us to hear your voice and Reveal God things and conditions that may be deeply strewn in our hearts father so that we can come to a place of healing and Freedom in you Lord. I bless each student who is here Lord those who have not been able to join in we ask God that You Stand alongside with us be with us God as we go through this course in the next couple of months I ask all these things in your precious name Amen. Amen. So good morning once again for those who've just joined in Like I was saying it's always a pleasure to be here and learn together so our course is on Christian counseling and The textbook has been uploaded for you for those online students in the classroom and those who are the on the e-learning portal it is there Available as well. So we're going to be following through that book for this course, I have prepared some some presentation some PowerPoint presentations because There will be a lot of examples that we are going to be talking about and which which has not been added into the book So, you know for better reading and better Just being on the same page. I have created A PowerPoint presentation, but but the material that you need is all there within the textbook, okay? All right, so let's get started and Maybe the first question I would I want to ask each of you is and you could unmute and You know share is this question on what do you think? Is counseling what do you think is counseling? I'm sure You've probably used the term Counseling and I've counseled somebody or I've been counseled by somebody or someone came to me for counseling So I'd like to hear from you as to what your understanding has been of counseling. So Yes, over to you So remember, this is an interactive class right and the more you interact the more we're going to be learning together Okay, so Taron you've written to help others help themselves, okay, Taron. All right That's a familiar line, Taron. All right. Okay. Yes, Samuel. Hi. Good morning, Samuel Good morning, Pastor. Good to see you again. Yeah, good to see you too Yeah, yeah, I can see you now too Yeah, I think For me counseling would be like Taron mentioned to help others to help themselves but also in broader terms is I think it's more like a relationship building a relationship with someone And and and through that relationship somehow bringing in Transformation to that person's life Yeah, there could be I think good counseling and bad counseling too depending on if there's a goal that the two people are moving towards Excellent. Wow. Thank you. Thank you, Samuel. And I'm seeing so many You know the the messages here are all You know, I don't think you'll need to be on the course anyway So I'm just going to read it out for the help of those of the e-learning students because they're not able to see the chat So someone's written to be able to Guide them well Guide them. Sorry to guide to guide them with their will. Okay guide them with their will Anita has written to help others to analyze and get through the situation which may be critical A hope said counseling is giving wise advice Avina said counseling is empowering another person Charles the emptying of oneself Selflessly to help one needing guidance Rose you said giving guidance and direction through advice Nisha said I've been counseled a resolved to a solution to identify problem areas and work in it to enable a Person get better in a particular area Maxine has written conversation for guiding persons Kennedy is written to give a positive direction Prabhakar to lead in on a right track. Chaya said counseling is a therapy where we can talk to people and help wonderful Okay, you've made my work far far easier. Christopher says it's a talk therapy. Okay, you've you've really Cleared the ground for me. Okay, because I think there's a there's a lot of Steady understanding about what counseling is so as we keep going forward, we are going to be learning a lot more Learning about what it is learning about what biblical counseling is. That's what we are going to deal with our class today We're also going to be looking at different skills and that's what this entire Course is about how do we develop certain skills to work with others now before we start? I think I would really want to share that Counseling is an art and By maybe a couple of weeks of learning a course. I think we're only scratching the surface of it The more that you so one of the things about counseling is yes to understand what it entails the second is practice the second is going out there and Using the skills that you learned in order to work with with one another so you know It's it's like being a doctor You you probably read up many things about how a surgery is done But unless and until you're there doing the surgery you haven't developed a skill of it So it is it is something that takes time. It takes Practice it takes mistakes and so those of all of us As we will here see and understand are called to some form of a ministry of Helping others so these skills even if you do not take it up Professionally or let's say as a pastoral ministry These skills can always help you to deal and to work with others who are in need Okay, so as I said, we are only scratching the surface for those of you who are interested in it. I would Strongly recommend that you take up more courses You know by counseling Institutes that are there and there are so many that really provide good excellent sources and Develop yourself in that skill. So what we are going to be doing is quite a you know Drunken version, but nevertheless, we think it's it is the beginning Okay, so just bear with me. I'm just going to share my screen So we can get started Okay, so before we I know a lot of this course has been Bought to you as part of the curriculum So those of you who have been doing the curriculum. I mean the the entire Theology course the three courses. This is part of your curriculum But I suppose there may be a few of you who've joined in just looking at the at the Title of this and say okay looks interesting. I really want to understand it Okay, and so for those for all of us over here my question over here as the Question asks is what really built your interest to understand counseling? What's actually bought you here to know about it? There is something that that has been stirred inside of you in order to come and understand this So what really built your interest to understand counseling? So I think you can put it up on the chat or you could unmute yourselves and Speak Yes Sorry, I'm not sure who who's speaking This is my hope. Yes. Hope. Yes. Go ahead. Hope. Yeah, what built your interest? Yeah, I Can say what build my interest is that when you start the Bible the minister of Jesus Is full of counseling? So I am interested in order to to save God in a Manaway as Jesus did his ministry Who is full of counseling? So I'm interesting knowing more Jesus because We call even one of his names is a great counselor. So that's why I'm interested to Yeah, thank you. Thank you. Hope. Thank you. Yes Somebody said the methodology of counseling so I'm super max and said methodology of counseling So I'm hoping I hope I think what he means to say is what it what is the process of it? How does one do it is is why? He seems to be interested Samuel said the world needs counseling the young world the right kind of counseling Okay, so everywhere you see someone needs help. Someone needs direction. Someone needs guidance. Okay, any other thoughts? Okay Good. All right. So some of us like Charles said he said I was counseled I think even Nisha mentioned earlier that some of us here have been counseled. I have been Counseled as well. I am going in for another season of counseling as well and and to know how to do it because I'm sure you've had the benefit of Receiving support and help from others Christopher has written to learn the skills to provide effective therapy based on Christian principles. Okay, I need that says all of us are in the same boat or world some things We counsel with experience and some things we to face and discover together. So being there How do we do that? Okay, so how do we do counseling? There are others who've said confusion and daily problems that seem unmanageable yet not being resolved Okay, and you use drugs. I think that's what he meant. Okay To build oneself stronger Elisha Elisha has written he's in youth ministry and I see young people need counseling in many areas So I need to learn the skills to be able to assist them wonderful So I think a lot of you are here because you have been in a place where someone has approached you for guidance or for support and There may be times that you are able to manage it well There may be times that you just don't know what to say and coming here to learn some of those skills is What you've you are looking to do? Okay So I want to start with an example Okay so let's suppose, you know, you're finishing off from your work and That is this young lady who comes to you and says You know, I I just I just see that you're a person Quite mature and balanced I just want to share something with you and she starts to talk to you and an essence of what she says is what I've written here Okay, so Susan says I don't know what's wrong with my husband. He just doesn't allow me enough space to just be me He wants to pry into what I'm doing who I am talking to. I'm having quite enough You know, I have second thoughts about this marriage Now someone comes in and talks to you about this. All right What is what is the first thing that? you Will say What is the first thing that you will say and I'd like you to put it either if you're sharing I'd like you to put it in a first-person statement. How I suppose I'm Susan. What are you going to tell me? Okay, how are you going to respond to me Susan? So you can write hey Susan? You know, this is what or Susan this so Respond like how you would respond to Susan Okay, so Anita says what makes you feel that way. All right Others so I'd like I'd like as many of you to respond on this. Okay, are this Yes, please go ahead. I'm sorry, I cannot see who's speaking because only mind is coming up So it is hope. It is hope. Hope. Yes. Hope go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead Okay, first time here, I will just respond that yeah, you say here second thoughts I will just ask what are the second thoughts you have about your marriage and I will listen to a reply So that I can cancel her here Okay, so hope would say what are your second thoughts about? Marriage And you'll hear that and then you will respond. Okay. She says Susan I would like to hear more come over here and sit. Okay, wonderful. All right, what about the others? Can I say something? This is Charles. Yes Charles, go ahead Susan thank you so much for allowing for seeing me that I can listen to you Yes, here I am It's okay. You can go ahead and tell me more I would love to hear more about What is happening to you? Thank you Okay, wonderful. Good. Thank you Charles Nisha said I would pull more information and help her to vent her situation And listen to her most women want to Most women want to be heard and then I would probe her what she would want to do about it. Okay Samuel said I would start off by trying to understand Susan as a person her husband as a person How long they've been married, etc Avni says be patient. We will find out more on it Maxon says I heard you complaining about The husband, please tell me more if you trust me Chaya says I will thank Susan in trusting me and I will try to know more about her. Okay, wonderful All right, any more responses don't worry about it being right or wrong. That's why we're learning Okay So sometimes I've heard responses like hey Susan You know you having second thoughts about marriage. Do you know what the bible says about marriage? You know, we got to be careful about that. So sometimes that that Happens to be a response Okay, I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong. I'm just saying that these are sometimes the response That comes about or there are responses that go into maybe certain questions that come about Susan You know, maybe not questions. Sorry suggestions or advice that says hey Susan You know what you should remember you're married right now and uh, you're like one team. You're like one body and Does it really matter that he spies on you like that? I mean, are you doing anything for for you to feel afraid? Okay, hope says hey Susan all men are like that don't mind Okay All right, so You know our responses. Okay, Prabhakar says would listen to her Would listen to her and try to guide her to meet a female counsellor so she can be more open Okay, Apni says sometimes we hear and just pray Uh Pray see says first of all, I will pray after that. I will tell her to pray And ask the guidance from god Pratik says I would say every step of our life is ordained by god. So have a prayerful fellowship with him Okay, so we've seen here Um questions that come up We've seen suggestions that come up. We've probably seen some form of judgment that comes up from what I said um Okay, we we may see different forms of Responses and I think what's important So i'm just reading out the responses because I think these are these are perfect And you know, it really helps us to learn. I know some of you can hear it read it But this is for the sake of the e-learning students. Uh, taisha said um Okay, taisha said susan i'm here to help I understand you're having second thoughts about your marriage This is what I found out. Are you open to trying my suggestions? Okay Uh bet says what kind of space do you feel you need? What makes you need this space? Have you always felt like this or just recently? Is this a way he tries to Um show you love and interest in your life. Okay So this is another perspective that is coming out that the other person That the counselor is hoping to bring about Christopher says, um, susan. I need to understand more. Please give me Uh, some examples of your husband's behavior Avinash says susan take more quality time for your husband and try to figure it figure out what he wants If you both are not coming to the point of conclusion then get a counselor with expert Okay. All right. So taisha says look into the word of god what god says about it. Okay, so great I think we have an entire gamut of different Responses now am I going to give you what a right response or an effective response is no, okay? We are going to we're going to keep I'm going to keep the suspense and as we Learn and understand more. We're going to figure this out. Okay, so let me start by Uh, just taking the term of what counseling Uh, what is counseling and we'll before we look at what is counseling. Let's look at What counseling is not? Okay, because I think it fairly helps us to understand Better when we're looking at what counseling is not and then we'll they'll figure out Ways. Okay. So the first thing is counseling is not giving advice you're not number one to understand that We and as we go through these classes, you'll you'll you'll flesh out a lot more of truths as to why it's not advice giving And it is not something where a person comes to you and you give the answers to their problems. Okay remember you are as human as your counseling and You're not there to offer advice or to offer answers to their problems because often The problems that you're hearing Like for example, Susan she's having second thoughts about her marriage Your understanding to the problem Is based on your experience is based on your attitudes is based on your upbringing It's based on your framework right so I maybe As a person I I may advise you and say hey Susan You know, you can't have second thoughts about your marriage. That's not what scripture talks about another person Who may have experienced significant struggle in her own relationship who may be a counselor may say Hey Susan, you know, uh, I think you should give yourself some space I think, uh, you know, you shouldn't allow the man to treat you like that, right? So it really Matters who you're going to that's one, but remember even if you are going to the right kind of a counselor we're all Um, we have our specific framework or our understanding. So counseling is not giving advice or answers to problems Counseling is not being judgmental You and I are as scripture says you and I are not in a place of being a judge to um Give a verdict on what is the right or on what is wrong in in their lives That should come from within the spirit of the person and is the work of the holy spirit So it's not us being judgmental about who they are what they've done what situation they are in So being careful of taking away The person from the problem remember when we judge We are Bringing adding in with judging the person many times. It's a hey, you know, Susan You can't divorce your husband or you can't You cannot separate from him. You are being disobedient. So Which is truth? Yes, I agree. It may it is truth But being careful on how you articulate. So being careful not to be judgmental Counseling is not attempting to sort out the problems of your client or your or your counseling. Okay, so Sorry, the word client. Uh, I I'm thinking I shouldn't have used that word. We we would use counseling. All right But it counseling is not attempting to sort out their problems. You're not there Uh, as a as a problem solver, you're not the specialist or the expert that is able to tell them You know, this is the way go in it. Okay Counseling is a lot more to do with empowering it is enhancing Another person's ability to solve their own problems You are there more as a facilitator To help them to do a bit of searching on what their lives are On how far away they are from the truth of god's word Far away from what god wants the place that god wants them to be okay Counseling is not expecting or encouraging a client or a counseling to behave in a way that you have behaved When you've had a similar problem in your life So then there are many times that you're going to have people come to you with problems very similar to the ones that you're going through All right, and you know your journey of how you've moved from Um a problem to a solution or a or a pain to a healing Or a hurt to a recovery. So you know your own journey and Counseling is not telling the person. Hey, this is what worked for me Go ahead and try this Okay, why? Because that's something that may have worked for you But it isn't necessarily something that works for another However, even though I'm saying this There is a place of self disclosure in counseling where you use but that's not something that you use primarily In order to help the person You use that as one of the skills as as a very basic small part of counseling where you disclose How you have been helped in the past or helped um In your in your situations, but it's not encouraging them to behave in the way that you have behaved. Okay So being careful about that is important Counseling is not getting emotionally involved with the client Now, what do I mean by this emotional involvement? There is a difference between empathy and emotional involvement emotional involvement is Like for example, let's say for those of you who are parents, you know, you have something goes wrong with your child and You're in a place of emotional involvement that you would do anything to get Your child away from the struggle that they are going through. Okay. That's involvement. That is you go out there and resolve their problem and Stand at the front line of the battle to work that out. Okay, that's what we mean by emotional involvement counseling is not that counseling is yes, there is Empathy which we will talk about later There is empathy where you need to put yourself in the shoes of the other person feeling like what they're feeling yet Not taking the reins of the problem and and going on with it Now you're not taking the reins of the horse and and ensuring that you're doing doing that part of it, right? So it is Not getting too emotionally involved that it becomes your problem It becomes your need To resolve their issue. Okay. So that's what it it it is not The last one is looking at the counseling's problem from your own perspective or base Basing it on your own value system Counseling is not that that you look at it from your own perspective or your own lens Um, and and helping them based on what you stand for So this is What counseling is not? So what is counseling? And I think as as many of us spoke about There are the main thing about counseling is that it is a relationship It is a supportive relationship. Okay, it's a relationship of trust between a counselor and a counselor and one Where the counselor helps the other through a purposeful and meaningful conversation So it needs to be a conversation. It's not a question and answer Process, right? It's not what you would do with a doctor With a doctor, you'd say, hey doctor, what's wrong with me? The doctor will say you've got Covid Hey doctor, what do I do about it? Doctor will say one two three four five six That's what he would say, right? It's counseling is not a question and answer process It is a supportive relationship. It's a relationship of trust Where the counseling is given time and space to understand With the situation that they are presenting to you their feelings their thoughts their experiences their responses their behavior And the counselor moves them from that place to a place of change Which is positive which is empowering Which brings about to growth And this is all done Through a conversation Okay, so you may be you may be thinking my my wow what a conversation that is going to be absolutely Okay, and that's exactly why there are skills that a counselor needs to have in order to Make the conversation purposeful make the conversation meaningful Counseling like I said is a relationship of trust And what is that trusting relationship is that The counselors counseling sees so I I'm just to clarify the two words Counselor is the one who's the helping person The counseling is the one who Gets the help. Okay. So those are the two different words for those of us who may not be familiar So it's a relationship of trust Where the counselor stands in a position of acceptance stands in a position of Non-judgmental being in a place of non-judgmental attitude We will be looking at these principles a little later And helping the counseling move from a place of confusion To a place of understanding And to a place of action And where the counselor stands As a support system through that process Now does it mean that process is always easy? and is Hassle-free no There may be times that the counseling may Come up with perspectives or suggestions or thoughts that may be very different from Recovery or healing All right, but the counselor stands in support to help facilitate those decisions So that's why it's a relationship of trust that you will not let go of your counseling all because You know that they are not going in the right direction or they aren't taking the step in the right direction You are there as a person who continues to move with them and they trust that you are there to empower them From one place to another Okay, now I think even as I'm speaking I'd like you to think of the Holy Spirit as the counselor The Holy Spirit, you know, like all of us have experienced Will speak to us Will speak God's truth to us Yet the Holy Spirit will never Push you outside Of your will It never pushes you outside of your will and continues to nudges your nudge your conscience and helps you to come to You know Requires your own will and your own determined understanding to change All right, so even as we're speaking of this try try and Find parallels to the way the Holy Spirit works in you And our understanding comes from the greatest counselor as you read in Isaiah 9 6 says he is the counselor Right, he's the one who convicts us of truth and converts us and that comes from the Holy Spirit But the responsibility to bring about that change lies within you and me, okay So what what do we mean by christian so what do we mean by christian counseling? now The the important we're going to be looking at elements and tenets of christian counseling, but just to put it up in You know Certain highlights christian counseling is where we depend upon the holy spirit To bring about god's truth to people Whatever situations or problems that they are going through to bring about god's truth To people so that they can be empowered to change Empowered to come back in their right relationship with god so that they can enjoy Their relationship with god and also enjoy their relationship with one another and how do we do that? Is through the word of god by cultivating that conformity to his word and Communion with with christ, okay, so there are a couple more of elements which i'm going to going to take on One by one, okay, but before that i'm just going to quickly stop here And ask would anyone have questions so beth said beth has asked a question. How is counseling different from coaching so You know, there are a lot of words that are used interchangeably So there is counseling. There is therapy. There is coaching. There is psychotherapy. There are there are a whole lot of Words that are used now some of them have have slight differences But i think what i would like to just highlight in counseling and coaching coaching a lot of times coaching deals with More than it deals with problems It deals with enhancing growth and development. That does not mean counseling doesn't have that counseling does have it But you would hear the word such as life coaching um, you know work coaching all of that happens in in a place where coaching generally Focuses a lot more on on solutions Focuses a lot more on what you can do counseling differs a bit there is because in counseling you also do go back into sources and roots of Why the problem has come about or why there isn't growth and development in itself So that's that's one of the basic differences that coaching is is very forward movement It's very solution focused that you look towards finding solutions rather than Looking back at the source or at the problem and figuring out where it has come from Okay, so it's it's a lot more forward movement whereas counseling does a lot more digging into The depth and the roots of why the problem has occurred What has been the patterns of thought and behavior and then finding? You know finding ways of beliefs and then going into Finding solutions. So that would be some of the basic differences between Counseling and coaching. Is there anyone else who have a who have a question else? I will I will move forward Okay, I don't think anyone has a question. Okay, so we'll we'll move forward and begin to look at What are some of the core elements? of counseling of Sorry of christian counseling or biblical counseling. Okay, so we we we need to Have a framework and understand and what I'd like to do at the end of the class is also give you A difference between christian counseling and secular counseling. Okay, so that we have a fair amount of understanding of what is You know, how how does how do these two differ? I mean, there are some very Clear-cut answers, but I'd like to bring that up a little later. Okay, so in christian counseling Or as a christian who works as a counselor some of the questions that We need to first of all understand is one is How do people generally know? What what do we know? How do we know what we know? We know things because of our experience We know things because of our Maybe our intuition We know things because of our logical reasoning Or we know things because of some knowledge or some science. Okay Whereas for the christian. Yes, we understand a lot of things in the same way That that a person That a person who is not a believer in christ may understand but the bible or The bible and what god has spoken in scripture becomes A base for what we know Like for I'll give you a very simple example That When you talk about, you know, especially so I I work Within ministry I help in ministry, but I also work outside of ministry, which means I practice counseling to a whole lot Outside of those who are believers. So I see a lot of people who are unbelievers and when someone comes with a problem or a situation that I know Is sin or is something that is far away from what God desires for his children Someone on the outside is unable to see it. Okay, like it says in scripture Their eyes are blinded from the from the truth And what makes us different is that we are able to bring about an understanding of human needs human personality just by looking at scripture And we do see that um That there is an explanation for everything That people go through there is People have whatever struggles that people are going through. There is an explanation so we so when we are um giving counsel as a christian counselor We identify that god is at the center of that counseling The bible the truth that is written in the bible is the center of that Center of christian counseling. So that's the basic element of biblical counseling. Okay, the the next Sorry, I'm just trying to move my Yeah, okay. So god is at the center of counseling the next one What we do understand is every discipline Anything that has to do with understanding the human mind anything that has to do with um understanding socialization understanding community society behavior any discipline, okay Should be under the authority of scripture. That is the element of biblical counseling. So there are many disciplines out there that um that are way Contrary to what scripture talks about And there are very many, you know, if you if you are a student of psychology, you will hear of so many new age techniques That people bring into counseling. All right. So remembering That all Disciplines are under the authority. It should be tested Under the authority of scripture. We ensure that we Whatever new theory that comes up We test that under the authority of scripture. Does it Defy what the bible and scripture says? Okay The third that we would look at is to understand when people come with problems That sin Is the primary concern That we need to deal with And and that is a primary problem that as a counselor that you're going to be dealing with so to understand that Man is depraved Man is sinful and we read that in scripture That all have fallen short of the all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of god And this is essential to understanding The human personality the human problem and also knowing What is it that can only restore that human condition? Okay So sin is the primary concern that needs to be dealt with Now that does not mean That when you see a counseling and they're coming and telling you something you say hey You're being sinful go repent That is the truth but you've got to You you've got to draw Out an understanding from within them to see how far they are from what god Wants of their lives, okay The fourth one Is to know that jesus christ is the answer for every problem Jesus is the answer for every the gospel of jesus christ and what he did for us On the cross is the answer for every Um problem that that we have and it is fundamental to understand this because Man is reconciled to god only because of what jesus did on the cross So what would that mean? It is repentance. It's forgiveness And being justified because of the righteousness of god So these are certain elements that we understand that we we keep as a base Okay, and the last one being The last one being that the process of change Should aim at progressive sanctification now and I'll explain that a bit more that Okay, I think I'll I'll get into so let's let's understand what happens when We are saved When a person is saved There is immediate. There's justification becomes instantaneous. It's it's done immediately Okay, and what is justification? It is where god declares us a sinner Perfectly righteous because of the blood of jesus and that happens At the point of time that you confess You ask for forgiveness of sin and we are adopted Into the into God's family because we have Our our righteousness comes as a because of our faith and our belief in jesus christ So that's the instantaneous one. That's that's justification. Now does Justification immediately mean that you will have a change of life or a change of situation or a change of heart or a change of behavior No, that's what we mean by sanctification And sanctification is a process. It's something that is gradual That it it if what and how is it defined it is defined as something where we We are renewed We are Changed We continue to Be worked upon By the spirit of god. Okay, so as it's defined here, it's that gracious and Continuous operation of the holy spirit and what does he do purifies us renews us Into becoming like christ into Being christ like into Being in the image of god and through that enabling us to change and perform good works So there are here two aspects of sanctification where we are being set apart from So we're set apart from sin set apart from what has been our Past and we are being set apart to Being set apart to holiness set apart to being godly set about being completely Like christ and that happens Gradually and we we understand I mean for all of us who've been believers That that for some there have been some situations where there has been an instantaneous change Right in some area of their lives But there are periods of time that it is a gradual process that becomes You know holiness you need to move be set apart into Into into holiness where we where we progress From one level into another from glory to glory from strength to strength till we become christlike Okay uh Do we have any questions up until now? if not, I think uh we could just Move for a break and probably come back in 10 minutes Anybody has any questions? I think christopher you sorry. I think I missed a question christopher has said let me just read that out In an earlier slide you mentioned counseling is not giving advice and not problem solving would this not be fundamental in what the counseling needs Okay, so yes the the the counseling does come to seek A solution to their problem, but it is not something that you give It's not something that you provide You help empower them To resolve their situation or their problem You are acting as a facilitator You are opening their eyes to maybe things that they have not seen You're opening probably scripture for someone who's a believer and who's in the word you're opening up what What what god desires and helping them to find their solution? So yes, it is fundamental to what they need, but you do not take the role of an advisor or a solution Giver You take the road of a facilitator where you're helping them to come to a place of finding their own Way forward of course for those who are believers with the help of god with the word of god with truth in it Okay, I hope I answered that Christopher Uh, yeah, I don't think there is any other question All right, okay So shall we just close for a break? It's 10 53 on my uh on my clock And we will return in 10 minutes. So 11 three So quickly grab a cup of coffee and some biscuits and do return back