 Hello everybody, welcome to another episode of the this week in science podcast broadcast we are here as we are every Wednesday and Justin is not going to be joining us this evening as he's not doing well But as I love to remind you before every episode hit the likes hit the subscribes Do all those things. This is just the live recording and if Blair and I make mistakes, which we never do Always always the internet. It's always technical stuff. It's not us at all But if there are ever any errors, then hopefully those are taken out in the podcast version And you can subscribe to the podcasts and all that kind of stuff You ready Blair? Oh, look, yes yawning. She's like I need more oxygen to fuel the science that's coming. Let's do it No, you don't know what I'm gonna stand. I'm gonna stand up for part of this You better because there's kicking involved if you're sitting, right? There's kicking involved no matter what these days Now we have the desk is moving and the the standing is happening. Sorry. I'm gonna wait. I'm knocking things over This in a couple months at this desk. This is live everybody. This is what happens. Okay. All right. Here we go I stood I'm standing. I'm stood. I'm definitely gonna sit later But I'm standing for now Good all the things all these things are good. Yeah, you hear that. I'm winded. This is great. All right. Let's go. I Wasn't gonna talk about the the aging mice study hypoxia apparently. It's good for aging, but Yeah, let's do this show. So I'm gonna get this started Starting the show in three two This is Twist this week in science episode number 927 recorded on Wednesday, May 24th 2023 How did we get here? I? Might not have all the answers, but I am dr. Kiki and thank you for joining us for another evening of this week in science tonight We will fill your heads with spiders Saturn and solar flares but disclaimer disclaimer disclaimer Some days you just pick your head up and look around and wondered yourself How you got where you are? Is this the place you meant to be? Really and Does it really matter? You are here Well choices look in ignorance knowledge There's lots of ingredients that go into that magic soup sometimes it involves solar flares and sometimes it is just This week in science coming up next I've got the kind of mine that can't get enough I want to learn everything With new discoveries that happen every day of the week. There's only one place to go to find the knowledge I seek I want to know Oh Science to you Kiki. Oh and a good science to you too Blair and everyone out there. Welcome to another Episode of this week in science. We are so glad that you all joined us For this episode of science see what we like to talk about science every weekend I hope that you like to be a part of that. Thank you for being here Thank you. I hope you're doing well. All right today. What do we have I have science news? news stories about life vibrations for brains and Saturn, what do you have for us Blair in the animal corner? I have spiders. I have more spiders I have frogs sperm and I also have was the last one. Oh, yeah Dinosaur eyes and bird brains. It's a whole thing. I thought you were gonna say more spiders No, just the two spiders this week. Just two. Hopefully that's enough Only two spiders. That's all it's enough for Blair. It's enough for me But if you're all excited about these stories and the one other ones that we didn't even mention because of course There's gonna be more that comes up. You never know what's gonna happen here I would love to remind you before we jump into the show that you can subscribe to twist all places that podcasts are found and That we broadcast on YouTube Facebook and Twitch weekly on Wednesdays at 8 p.m. Pacific time and Additionally, you can find us on social media look for this week in science or at twist science We're at twist science on twitch also by the way but if you want show notes and audio files and all that kind of stuff you can find all sorts of information at our website twist.org Okay, let's jump on in And What would the earth be without the Sun? Cold and dead Pretty much. Okay, not just the cold part, but the dead part especially and new research that was published this last week in the journal life an article called formation of amino acids and carboxylic acids in weekly reducing planetary atmospheres by solar energetic particles from the young Sun was Published and the basic gist of the whole study is that solar flares and Really energetic solar flares were really important to sparking life on the early earth Which means that Additionally, maybe Mars was another spot where life was started because we know from lots of experiments and we've talked many many times about early life experiments where Just from Electrical stimulation and a few basic ingredients. We've been able to Start to form amino acids and some of the basic building blocks of life And we found building blocks of life all over the place and it just gets the story has gotten more and more and more concrete that Life should be starting everywhere but what is the thing that really starts it right what really gets it going and This particular study Really took The age of the Sun into account and the activity of the Sun into account and so Nowadays we might be afraid of the occasional solar storm and the possibility of solar flares that could You know electromagnetically Wipe out our electrical grid or affect our satellites for communication, but Once upon a time our Sun was a lot more active. It was like a hyperactive little tantrum-y child Yes, and because of that the Interactions of the super flares that we've really never even Encountered during our our time here on earth or what we've been existing in recently that this cosmic radiation from our Sun would have sparked reactions within the atmosphere and within various components of the earth itself to create plasma and to create amino acids carboxylic acids and Would have been better than just lightning on its own or Galactic cosmic rays. So just our Sun by itself being a tantrum-y youngster Might have led to the biomolecules that made life possible. I Love that. I think everything we know about thermodynamics tells us that energy is important and and and that it fuels a lot of things in life and the universe and and that we know that a lot of Chemical reactions that it takes to to make life happen require energy input, right? So It I guess yeah, that makes sense to me It follows right it follows, but I think the one thing that is kind of shocking to People thinking about how the Sun might have been involved in it is that The Sun used to be when the earth was very young a lot dimmer about 30% dimmer But even though it was very dim it had these massive Eruptions right and it was the the energetic particles that would come in the electromagnetic Storm that would come as a result of these super flares that were probably at least once a week Not like oh once every several years once a week Yeah Well, and I guess that also helps to explain why life isn't happening literally everywhere that there is a star that's a good distance, right? so if you need if you need this kind of secret ingredient that is the The secret spice of the of the solar flare then you need it at the right Distance and the right heat and the right intervals and like all these specific Goldilocksy things that make life happen so that that Helps explain why it's not happening everywhere all the time I guess Not everywhere all the time and why like our Sun isn't destroying us Thank you Thank you soul, but it also does give us that perspective on other Planetary systems other solar systems that might be younger than ours And what might be happening there and those that are older than ours Or is it you know that life cycle we now have maybe something that's a little bit you know gives us some more ideas that we can use for Comparison and gives us places to look where are there stars that are having periodic solar flares close together that? Might help spark life. Let's go look. Let's go look for all of those Stormy's flares look at that go. Oh my gosh life That's a firework if I've ever seen one. That's right Thank you, son. Thank you for being quieter now. Thank you for being very active once upon a time. Yes What did you want to talk about? Oh, okay? Let's talk about spiders and right into the spiders. Okay. Yeah. Well, just I have I Have an interesting angle on this study So this is a study on funnel of spiders which Sydney funnel web spiders are extremely venomous They're super dangerous. The development of antivenom is The main focus on this species so almost all research done on funnel of spiders. It's looking at anti venom Which is good. I'm not complaining about that at all because if I ever go to Australia There are so many things that could kill me and I appreciate anti-venoms for as many as possible. So That being said though, they're not being studied for much else. Oh, wow and so there's a lot of kind of Gaps in our knowledge of funnel web spiders So the other issue is that funnel of spiders as the name suggests Live in funnels and so there's it's also kind of obscured and difficult to study them naturally in the wild So this is because they live at the bottom of a funnel. Yes, they come out to attack things Yes. Yes, precisely so this was a study looking at courtship behavior and mating systems in the Sydney funnel web spider Sydney funnel web spider and there were a lot of kind of guesses based on the anatomy of these animals and They found some things they were expecting and some things they weren't so they knew that There's kind of a display that happens outside of a female burrow because again That's something that you can watch pretty easily in the wild Videos have been collected a lot to describe the male and the female kind of behaviors that happen outside And then now they've collected videos for what's happening inside their burrows in a lab So they had mating pairs filmed in 451 videos To create 165 minutes of footage in total so they were able to really see what these guys were up to during courtship and mating And so After they have this kind of elaborate display and the female Welcomes them in or can seeds or whatever you want to call it They they found some some kind of lifting behavior, which is really interesting and In the end some of the males would be chased away and so based on that information the initial guess was that the males were Lifting up the females to Keep them from eating them So basically so the female could not attack kill or eat the males Which is a very common story in spider mating, right? So they're basically like oh can't get me can't get me can't get me they have these The males have these these clasping spurs on their second pair of legs that is used for lifting the females So after watching these videos initially and seeing that a couple ran away They're like oh, that's what it's for but as they continue to study their videos They found that The spurs are actually used to pull the female toward the male and keep them there. It's just it's just a handle it's really just a handle and Selective function and They didn't see any cannibalism happening between these spiders or any reason to believe that that might be happening in the wild so So these very venomous spiders that are very poised like Dangerous spiders to humans. They're not attacking each other. They're they're like hey Yeah, we're in we're together into my funnel. Come on in. Yeah, and you can leave though when we're done You can leave anyway. I'm only gonna hold on to you while you're here Yeah, but so this is interesting because we're looking at an animal that's difficult to study in the wild There are a lot of guesses made on on the fact that these are a dangerous spider to humans I think that definitely colored the conversation a little bit and That coupled with the fact that a lot of Spiders are cannibalistic in mating so they kind of put two and two together with these spurs and kind of made this Guess which there's nothing wrong with that. That's how a lot of zoology started is observational based on Characteristics they that's how originally animals were lumped together before we learned about genetics So all this kind of stuff right so that's a place to start but I think this is a great example of using that kind of Evidence to make a hypothesis and then be able to test it in a lab and be able to actually see oh nope It's used for something else entirely I totally understand why they made that guess, but I like that these extremely venomous scary dangerous spiders are actually not so bad to each other and From what it looks like that Maybe the attacking of mates isn't you know, it's not widespread and maybe it's simply just You know evolution moving a particular direction for different species right and that in this particular case You have two similarly sized very You know venomous creatures that maybe they don't need to do that Maybe they because of the size or there might be all sorts of reasons why it doesn't work out in that direction. Yeah Yeah, but their hypothesis was wrong Yeah, they're not so bad the funnel of spiders unless you're a human or any other animal being bitten by them Then seek seek some anti-venom, please Go to the hospital seek medical help as soon as possible Stay away from funnels in Australia. That would be my suggestion. These are some of the most venomous spiders in the world Yeah, right most dangerous. Yeah. Oh awesome So they brought a bunch into a lab, what could go wrong I am Inspired by those scientists Wanted to work with these spiders That's why it's like bye dear hope to see you at the end of the day Unless I accidentally get bit by a funnel web then see you never I'm sure they have anti-venom. Oh, yes available. I'm sure they've got something. Oh my goodness Well, something that's equally deadly, but not something that you find at the bottom of a funnel or a web Saturn I mean it's deadly to us. You What are you afraid of there's no This week a couple of studies came out that were related to Saturn that I thought were very exciting Researchers talked about their work with the James Webb Space Telescope looking at Enceladus which we know has plumes of what we think is water vapor and James Webb's telescope according to researchers that reported at a conference of the Space Telescope Science Institute in Baltimore on May 17th that There's massive Plumes and James Webb saw them all so this isn't the first time but this is like the highest resolution that we've been able to see these plumes with and the the jets of vapor they say shoot further into space than they previously realized Further than the diameter of Enceladus itself. So It's there's so much pressure. It's just spewing this vapor out into space Their material is part of the forming of one of Saturn's rings So these vapory blasts causing ice particles actually lead to the formation of one of the rings of Saturn Which is also very exciting analysis Suggests that the jets contain methane carbon dioxide and ammonia which are all organic molecules These are necessary for life one of the hypotheses is that beneath the icy surface of Enceladus there may be Oceans of methane and these organic liquid molecules that could be harboring bacterial life But we don't know that for sure because we have to go there and we have to see that for sure But it's a very exciting idea and now maybe there's more evidence from the James Webb Space Telescope That will push us into exploring Enceladus even further You got any pretty pictures of Pretty oh, yeah, you're talking about you about a pretty picture. Well, the the pictures from the James Webb Still need to be analyzed and the odds needs to become out but needs to come out but there are Yes, some gorgeous pictures of these jets shooting out from the surface of Enceladus Yeah, there are one part of that early reporting from from naso. We were talking about before come on Don't tell me what the James Webb saw without some pictures. Give me the pictures first I want to see them. You're a camera, right? Isn't that your whole deal? Give me some pics It's the whole deal Additionally not related to the James Webb Space Telescope, but Uh, we've we all know the Cassini mission that spent years studying the rings of Saturn studying Saturn itself and taking uh, just some beautiful beautiful looks at the the rings and this incredible planet well We kind of take these rings for granted, right? It's these rings of Saturn we look at them and go wow it must have been there and they've Formed over such massive time periods and we think of our solar system as this kind of stable thing But new research that has been published this last week based on some of the last data available from NASA's Cassini mission um Suggests based on theoretical models that these rings are really only A few hundred million years old So younger than the earth younger than the moon Probably we're getting their start sometime in the time of the dinosaurs Okay, so let me ask this question If I was on a planet far enough away And I had a telescope where I could see Saturn. I would see it without rings Yes Yep, yes, exactly very cool or if I had a spaceship that traveled fast enough I could look back you could look back and see no rings Yes Right That's wild. It's really wild and other uh other ideas that come from this Data and this work suggests that maybe the other massive gas planets in our solar system Which also have rings by the way, we just can't see them very well And maybe their rings were bigger and more prominent At one point in time before we started really looking So they're like I wore rings before it was cool. I wore rings. I just thought you know, I've been getting rid of them It's okay. It's fine. Um, so the models based on what they Got from the Cassini data Demonstrates that the rings are actually losing mass onto the planet so that there's You know, we talk about meteors hitting our planet every once in a while But basically those rings are just like being pulled in by Saturn's massive gravitational Pull and there there's meteorites constantly falling and falling and falling and falling in from the rings and the rate of Stuff that's falling Suggests that they're really only going to be around for a few hundred million years So well before our sun decides to expand and destroy us all Saturn will have rings that we can't really see anymore huh, which is So fascinating We're so puny and small. We mean nothing Just think we're such a little blip and the even our own solar system has such a history on either side of us It's wild right That's someday. Yeah, we we're just lucky to be seeing what we're seeing at all. Yeah Yep, how'd we get here? Thanks solar flares Who knows what's gonna happen next? I don't know. We don't know. We'll see what we'll see where it goes Do you want to tell me about uh frog sperm? Yeah, of course does that sound like does it sound like a very like natural segue from? Yeah The rings of Saturn to frog sperm. It's all eternal. Anyway, um No, this is a real quick story that just um, it's it's from University of Newcastle and it's a breakthrough in cryopreservation of amphibian sperm, which I think everybody listening is acutely aware at this point that amphibians are not doing great um, they are very sensitive to changes in water quality and uh changes in temperature and all sorts, you know new fungus introduced to the water and all sorts of things amphibians are called indicator speedy species because they are so sensitive that they're a useful tool when kind of Checking on the health of an environment. They're usually one of the first things to be impacted Um, but so because of that, oh, there's a lot of conservation efforts to raise amphibians in a controlled setting and then release Them when they're adults into the wild so they have a head start a lot of uh programs are working on inoculating them against Kittred fungus and other things in the environment So they have a better chance of survival And remember they also have important ecosystem services because what do they eat bugs like mosquitoes? So all that to say yay This is this is this is why we care about amphibian sperm because there's breeding efforts that happen in captivity to help continue these amphibian populations that are in trouble but um, I wasn't aware of this the methods are imperfect and I think about like human fertility and how eggs can be frozen and sperm can be frozen and all these things and It sounds like it all just works and I just kind of had the assumption that it works And we got it and we figured it out and we can freeze sperm and it's not a big deal but um This recent research found a superior method of freezing and thawing frog sperm Which had improved sperm quality as a result They found that using less sucrose or sugar in the freezing process, which who knew sugar was involved, but it is Facilitates higher cell recovery resulting in more intact membranes and better sperm motility Which produces of course better swimmers which produces more viable offspring So they tested sperm from six frog species in all cases The new preferred thawing method was superior than the traditional cryopreservation method. So um Pretty straightforward study. They just tried a new way to freeze sperm. It worked really well It this could have a huge impact for amphibian conservation. So good job It's kind of interesting, you know specifically considering that their amphibians and they lay Their eggs and they release their sperm usually in a watery environment. So perhaps that's some part of why the difference in freezing like less sugar makes why it makes the difference Yes. Yeah, I would imagine that a pond is very different from A reproductive canal in terms of many things p.a sugar lots of other things Yep Yeah, but yes sucrose is used very often for cell preservation for sperm preservation because when you freeze stuff if you don't do it in the Right way and they use sugar Very often because what it does is it creates a different diffusion gradient so that the cells as they freeze the water molecules Don't get spiky and make ice. Yes That are the membranes that makes sense. Oh man, that totally makes sense Which also Since you brought up the fact that a lot of them are broadcast spawners and they're just spawning generally in the environment Also, some of them live in ponds that freeze So, so maybe they're probably more tolerant Their cells might be more tall. Yeah. Yeah That's really interesting. Yeah, and mixing it up with the sugar is probably mixing up the metabolism of the cells messing with actually the like how the molecules are working and Yeah Interesting, but I yeah, I'd love to see how this Translates to other amphibious species and maybe either other cold water dwelling species fish and yeah, yeah, I wonder I don't know speaking of cold. Uh, the montreal protocol Has been doing its job Uh, do you know what the montreal protocol is Blair? No, I don't recall. It sounds familiar Yes, well, we like to think of it as the uh agreement that or global treaty that decided Everyone around the world basically decided to reduce ozone That we put into products or the cfcs that we put into cfcs. Oh, okay ha's ozone so it was the ozone protecting protocol and according to this was about 1987 when the treaty was signed and we've heard you hear every year all the the ozone hall It's opening or it's closing. It's getting smaller. Uh, and we think of it in terms of sunburns and cancer, but right it also has climate impacts because it is the ozone layer is part of the atmosphere and a new study that was led by researchers at clumbia engineering the university of exeter has shown that the treaty Has slowed down the effects of climate change on sea ice in the arctic by as much as 15 years so the appearance of the first ice-free arctic summer is It would have been earlier but we got rid of those ozone causing Pollutants in the atmosphere at least not got rid of but we minimized it and that was something we did together Yes globally so in terms of solutions communications This I think is one of those stories A global community not a global community the global community came together made an agreement We stuck to it and we have had an impact We can do more. Yeah, I think about the cfc ban all the time in relation to kind of How how much traction was made over such a short amount of time? Versus how slow kind of the fossil fossil fuel phase out is going and It's proof that we can do it for sure But I think it's a lot of it was something that we discovered quickly wasn't being used In that many things they were being used in very specific items Um that there are replacements for very easy not that fiscally impactful replacements for the cfcs Nobody really noticed when you stopped putting it in uh hairspray hairspray for example There are other aerosols you can use And so I think that it was it was a pretty easy switch and replace Not to say that it's not important It's a very important thing that happened and it proves that we can do these sorts of things But it definitely was a lot less complicated than trying to Unentangle ourselves from fossil fuels Which is in everything That's a much bigger bigger task for sure. Yeah Yeah, but I I think it's these kinds of agreements where It's evidence that the global community can come together and do things That are successful and have impacts and so we need to remember that it's big task But bit by bit Yeah, little bit by little bit. Well, and we're making we're making huge strides. So it's happening. I mean It's I went to a webinar a couple weeks ago of like let's talk about what's actually working In in climate change and I was really surprised you don't hear the success stories, but um, what was it electric car purchases are up 10 times in the last Five years, I think one in every seven cars bought currently is an electric car. Yes Amazing, you don't hear these things, right? Like huge numbers of um of houses are being built with heat pumps instead of air conditioners Which work just as well if not better and don't use fossil fuels Like there's all of these things that are happening that we don't talk about and we don't stop to celebrate successes Even though that's what can encourage further change so Yeah Let's celebrate the successes. I think that will help us remember that we have the power Like you hear that ozone layer era. We saved you We're gonna save more things. Yeah, we'll do it I don't know we're helping um Wombats, no, what's the new zealand species that we've been helping cure their cancer? But anyway Tasmanian devils we've been helping with that. We can do that. We've been working on things We fix stuff. It's good This is this weekend science. Thank you for joining us for another fun filled episode We hope you're enjoying the show and if you are please share it with a friend right now Right now text a friend call a friend be like look at this show. You should watch it You should listen to it subscribe Do that that'd be very very helpful And if you really love the show and you want to help do help us do what we do every week Head over to twist.org click on our patreon link and become a supporter Every month, uh, you can support us at your the amount of your choosing $10 and more We will thank you by name at the end of the show $15 and more you'll get a sticker every once in a while. There's stickers. Come on everyone help us out We can't do this without you. Thank you for your support And now That I've thanked you and we're coming back into the show. I think it's time for Blair's animal corner It's Blair What you got Blair? I have a study about dinosaurs Or animals specifically It's actually about alligators and ostriches But they have decided researchers have decided this study on alligators and ostriches Tell us about dinosaurs Okay So it's in my opinion I don't want to color people's opinion before this even starts It feels like a little bit of a far walk, but we're going to take this walk together And we can discuss if this sounds correct So a study from Lund University in sweden They were looking at visual perspective taking in animals So that's a skill that usually evolves or sorry emerges in in humans around age two but This is the idea when when someone here you turns their head towards something in their environment You follow their gaze but specifically The more advanced behavior is when you follow someone's gaze to a location that is initially obstructed So like if I'm in this room and Brian's outside the door And he looks towards our front door Then I Would walk around the corner and look at the front door. I would be able to understand He is looking in that direction. Let me go see what he's looking at That is visual perspective taking so that means I can put myself in his shoes and figure out what he's looking at, right? so and that's without having to like Do a bunch of double checking over and over and over of what you what's What's your deal? Oh, let me stand exactly where you are and look at what you're looking at No, I can understand based on where I am and where you are what you're looking at So that's visual perspective taking. This has been observed mostly in mammals some birds and reptiles um and this kind of Very specific tracking of where a person's looking is mostly attributed to apes monkeys and ravens specifically so they wanted to see When this started happening because has this stuff often Does it was attributed to humans and other apes is like it's a very sophisticated thing that's happening and so the more you look you see other animals that do this and so They wanted to see When this behavior emerged so they used a comparison of alligators with the most primitive existing birds paleonaths Those are ostriches emus reas And one of my favorite types of birds tin amuse, which I will suggest everyone looks it up tin amuse. They're little They're little cartoon birds. There's really no other way to describe it. They look like little Little loafs with bird heads. Anyway, they run around on the ground They are technically flighted, but they're flighted like a chicken is flighted. They're not super great at flying But they are flighted as compared to ostriches emus and reas which don't even have flight muscles at all So they wanted to see the neuro anatomy or specifically they they looked at neuro anatomy of these two groups because They're pretty similar so Basically the idea is crocodilians and birds and their common ancestor, which was a dinosaur They all kind of have the same brain because their neuro anatomy is similar So if you see similar behaviors in these individuals chances are They're based in similar neuro anatomy, which means they're based. Yes. So it's Already you see where I'm getting with this is like a little bit of a leap um, but so They're comparing ostriches emus and reas these paleonaths to They're uh, they're four bears that had similar brains, which are velociraptors and similar Okay So they wanted to compare these two groups Which creates a bracket around an extinct lineage of dinosaurs which leads up to modern birds So basically either they share this behavior and a common ancestor had it Or they do not share this behavior and therefore a common ancestor did not have it so Here's where in my opinion this study kind of takes a turn Our evolutionary psychology behavior stuff is always a bit tricky, but you can't test it. So it's it's anyway Um, so the alligators didn't demonstrate their visual perspective taking in their tests Okay, so their little out group little further further removed from the glossaraptor group of from which birds are derived, right? Every bird species they test exhibited visual perspective taking Also, these birds engage in a behavior called checking back Which is where when they look somewhere then they look back at the individual's eyes and then retract the gaze kind of understand like I'm looking at what he's looking at, right? And previously that's only been seen in humans apes monkeys and ravens and so Based on all this information When paleonath birds emerged 110 million years ago They're saying that that's when this behavior emerged And so that means it predates primates of dogs who have been doing this behavior by 60 million years looking at the neuroanatomical anatomical similarities between these birds and their non avian forebears They say quote it is plausible that the skill originated even earlier in dinosaur lineage However, it is less likely to have been present among the earliest dinosaurs, which had more alligator-like brains. So This is where this study loses me because Just because Ostriches, reas, and teen amuse all can do this Does not mean that their common ancestor definitely did it It's a behavior. It's a behavior. Yeah, I mean I get what they're getting at but you can't test it but also My dear researchers, what about convergent evolution? This does not have to be a common trait that dates back to dinosaurs Because mammals have this and birds have this therefore the common ancestor with mammals and birds but not with crocodiles have this that is not Necessarily the case like all these animals are social all these animals require interaction with other individuals This could be something that has popped up a million times. They all have eyeballs The eyeballs are the convergent or sorry are the common evolutionary trait They'll have vision these animals will have vision. So like they have vision and they have a social structure therefore At some point it's evolutionarily beneficial to be able to pay attention to what my friend's looking at In no way to me Does this mean that this is something that was evolutionarily conserved for 110 million years? I think what you're getting at with the sociality is the most important aspect of that is like once you Are cooperating or working with other individuals you need to know what they're looking at if or I mean even there's even a certain aspect of predation that okay, maybe they the alligators they tested that wasn't the group but Looking at what other Species in your ecosystem are looking at and knowing when there's a threat when there's not a threat Maybe it's you know, I don't know. There's a lot of stuff in there that is not Necessarily being taken into account and that's exactly it right crocodilians are They're they're not pack hunters And they're climb trees predators They can climb trees as we've learned but they're ambush predators. So they don't need They don't care what anyone else is looking at. They're waiting for their food to practically touch their nose Right, but wolves where dogs come from are pack hunters who hunt by sight and smell Um, and so not only do they cooperate in their hunting, but they're they need to be able to track moving prey Yeah All of the birds that we talked about are lunch. So it's really important for them to be able to see if somebody else Noticed a predator exactly So like the crocodilians are also just a really weird choice Because they have such a different behavior set Anyway, and this is all over the internet. I saw this posted maybe six times this week Dinosaurs are better than dogs. It's tracking It's understanding perspectives. We have no idea. This is an interesting study It's a great comparison. Love their approach But But we don't know. Yeah, and maybe some dinosaurs. Yes other dinosaurs. No, I I love you know convergent evolution adaptation based on need Yeah, it's I don't know did velociraptors do this maybe they did to our knowledge pack hunt, right? So like Sounds good. Did t-rex do it? Probably not because They were largely scavengers. So Their stuff isn't moving. It's dead already You know, uh, and they were big there wasn't a lot for them to worry about. Yeah, exactly all the way my I do have um a quote from the senior author professor matias osvath It's a really good quote, which I will I agree with mostly Early in my career crow birds Earned the nickname feathered apes due to numerous research findings that showcase the remarkable cognition However, I'm beginning to question whether it'd be more fitting to consider primates as honorary birds Oh, you're muted Said I like that. Yes. Are you a bird? Well, I mean really we're all reptiles. So yes That's where it goes back to I mean, we're all fish if you want to go that far back It's it's a whole thing Anyway, one is an ant a plant And one is an ant that is a plant actually a spider What? Do um, I think we've talked before on the show about jumping spiders that look like ants I think so. Yeah, so they they like stick up their front legs So they look like antenna and they walk in a very particular way to try to fool potential predators into thinking their ants Mimicking ants is a great defense because Usually they're not very delicious They have spiny defenses They bite and a lot of them carry chemical repellents or venom So if this little jumping spider wants to avoid being eaten by other spiders Looking like an ant can be a really good way to get away with it but this particular jumping spider Siller culling would die Was already known to move like an ant and and kind of look like an ant But one thing that was weird about it is it was covered in these really bright colors and Ants aren't these colors. They're like red and orange and white and black They're not pretty pretty abstract pictures No, usually no, they're solid ants are usually just a solid color maybe a couple of colors Why are you moving like an ant and looking like an ant but colored like I don't know what? um So the they wanted to do some studies to see Who they were trying to fool and how with this stuff from a human's perspective It looks like they blend well with the plants that are in their environment But they wanted to test that to see if it actually helped with predators So they collected wild ant mimicking spiders from four different locations in china And brought them back to the lab and for comparison They collected another kind of jumping spider that doesn't mimic ants and five co-occurring ant species So they could kind of see like who did they blend it with? And in a lab they characterized and compared how the ants and spiders moved in terms of their limbs and their speed and their acceleration And whether they followed a straight path or they took something kind of back and forth and they found that um Jumping spiders usually jump But these jumping spiders They didn't they moved like the ants. They actually did appear to Move very ant-like they bobbed their abdomens. They put their front legs up to look like antenna They lifted their legs to walk in an ant-like matter. So they even like the way they moved their legs were similar to how ants move They most closely resembled the smaller ant species That are closest to them in size because jumping spiders are tiny little tiny. Yeah So it seems like a really effective one But they didn't have they weren't a perfect mimic to any one species It seemed like they kind of got Mostly there to three different species and so you can see how that could be beneficial because being a general mimic Rather than perfectly mimicking one ant species makes it more possible that they could expand their range That they could go in different habitats that they could go into different types of environments And still blend in with the other ants where they live. So Then they tested their spider the spider's defenses Against two of their predators a similar size jumping spider with color vision that does eat other jumping spiders and a praying mantis That will eat jumping spiders and ants and anything it can get its little Mandibles on anything. Yes the other difference is that Jumping spiders as you might guess because of they're always so colorful and beautiful usually They have color vision and as far as we know praying mantises have a monochromatic visual system So that is where this kind of weird coloration comes into play So they looked at how the predators would see these spiders relative to other spray species And they put them against plants as well that the spiders would live on which include red flowering west indian jasmine and a fukian tea tree And they found that the ant mimicking spiders were better camouflaged for both spider and mantis on the jasmine plant So they do appear to blend in well with a very particular plant where they live But when they were just given us the option to take a spider And uh and eat it and they were like, oh, is it an ant? Is it not an ant? Looks like the predatory spider Would attack the non mimic Jumping spider out of 17 trials. They launched five attacks all on the non mimic But praying mantises they ate everything The idea there is that praying mantises as you kind of alluded to They're huge and They can eat spiny ants Doesn't bother right So of course the mimic wouldn't really work for them But the the predatory spiders Would get injured by a spiky ant They would avoid those so it does seem like it's a targeted mimic towards other spiders. They're doing their best They're they're blending in with a specific plant And they are attempting to mimic multiple ant species, which is very cool So it's uh, it's a good enough mimicry. It's a it's a mimicry that's kind of general, but Able to blend in well enough To not die most of the time. It's evolutionarily beneficial, right? Yeah. So like again This isn't the end of the evolutionary line. I don't know how many millions of years it's taken them to get here But in another couple hundred thousand, maybe they'll be better at it Or maybe they'll add something to it that'll help them avoid praying mantises, right? It's just at this point in their evolutionary journey. This is the best model or Maybe they will Uh speciate maybe there will be some species. Maybe they will specialize depending on how Different competition niches work out and predation and you know, we don't we don't know that but They've gotten to where they are which is for now Good enough Yeah, and so I think the reason I was so interested by this story Is that it combined all these different types of of uh camouflage They have right they have coloration They have physical mimicry and they have locomotor mimicry. So they have like they're moving in a particular way They're morphing their body around to a particular shape and they are trying to blend in with their environment. So Camouflage mimicry On so many levels It's very cool that they've been able to kind of stack all these things together It's amazing that they've been able to stack all I mean, that's it's a lot Yeah, the the the probability of all these various things coming together To allow them to to survive and adapt to the you know, the conditions that they're in that's Amazing Please don't eat me. Don't eat me. I would love to know, you know, how widespread these spiders are how big their populations are are these You know, are these are these spiders in a very specialized Environment habitat already are they in danger? Like Usually when you have very specialized organisms, they're going to be less likely to adapt to rapid change So Hmm. Great question. I wonder I don't have a range map for them They're in a A larger genus that's full of jumping spiders Lots of spiders that jump and they don't Yeah, and the majority of the genus is specializes in hunting ants, which is interesting Because this individual depends on them Well, they still eat them. They probably do. Yeah, they look like them and then they blend in and then they eat them I survived no one here but us ants Don't look at me. I'm just an ant. Just just hanging out just like you. I'm totally just like you. That's all Oh my goodness Wow Are we all just ants? Mimicking what we can to survive I don't know right putting on our colorful Colorful paint and yeah moving our our arms in various ways. I look like an ant. It's great. Don't eat me Anyway, moving on to some brain stuff. Yeah, let's get into some brain things we've talked previously on the show about something that is a very Fascinating concept and we don't really know why it's working the way that it is but there's evidence that a certain frequency of light and also of sound 40 Hertz, which is also similar to the gamma wave Brain signal within our brain 40 Hertz frequencies of light and sound have been shown to benefit Alzheimer's dementia other diseases of the brain Related to aging and so a group Out of mit said well, let's look at tactile stimulation And so they took a group of mice that are kind of predisposed to developing Alzheimer's neurodegeneration It's the tau p 301 s mouse It recapitulates the diseases tau pathology where the tau tangles get into the brain and lead to a lot of the symptoms of behavioral change memory loss, etc and They vibrated the they put the mouse cages on speakers On top of base speakers actually that we're playing a 40 Hertz sound So it's a very low frequency sound when in terms of it's within human hearing, but it's a low frequency Uh and the tactile vibration of the speakers bull vibrating Actually led to Changes in neural activity the brains of these Alzheimer's mice were less likely to show tau tango activity they had uh increases in various Components that are more neuro protective rather than neurodegenerative and Uh mice stimulated for three weeks. I could you imagine sitting on a base speaker bull for like three weeks They had preservation of neurons compared to mice that had not been Put on speakers for three weeks. So maybe not a speaker, but hear me out What about prescription massage chair? Right Yeah, and do you need to be vibrated at 40 Hertz consistently for three weeks? Or is this something that could be on and off? Is it a scalable thing too? Because like right is it Is it auditory or? manual like what is what is What is the impact coming from because the There's the frequency of the vibration Which is physical and then there's the frequency of the sound that is causing the vibration Yes, which is auditory with his which is auditory. Yeah, and we know that auditory Uh auditory 40 Hertz stimulation can also be beneficial. So they've controlled for these things It's just it was the massage chair and headphones is what it would have to be And maybe a pair of special glasses that okay sure lights that you So basically i'm just going i'm going to a sensory deprivation chamber for a while I'll be 40 Hertz spa Um, but this is my other question is does it matter that mice hear at different frequencies than humans? And that is an interesting question And does it matter that they're smaller than us? So the physical vibration would feel different like does it have to be scalable? Like is it gonna have to be a way crazy higher vibration for us? or Is it Yeah, I don't know right so many questions. I don't know and it's I think it's You know, this is the beginning of looking into these This fascinating direction for therapeutic non-invasive Treatment right so we need a scaled animal model. We need something larger Yeah, and is it You know, is it something that's really going to you know, it's not going to prevent the disease in the long run but just if it can Ameliorate deterioration slow things down help things out for just a little while right? It's could be and yes This is just mice at this point in time. So We don't know how this will work on people. I mean there are people who talk about you know the the harmonics or the um The frequencies that are involved in cat purring Being therapeutic. So I don't you know, that's not on your brain. I mean you put on your cat hat. Yeah But my cat As long as you don't spook them Yeah, and then you have claws in your Craving eyeball Good But it's just yeah, it's it's a fascinating story that I'm surprised to see it continue in this manner and I'm going to be very interested to see Where it goes because first it was like, oh, we put this blue light at this, you know This weird 40 frequency light the sound but I was like what is going on and Now it's a different modality and if Yeah, if it can help ameliorate pathology health behaviors I mean 40 hertz It couldn't hurt That's one of those things when you go to like an alternative health spa and they ring a bell and they're like This is going to heal you and you're like no, it's not but it might There might be some science behind it, you know, right? So that's like where a lot of these things they start blending a bit. That's like, okay There is probably Some truth to some things but we just haven't studied it and figured out the mechanisms So we don't understand exactly why but and some of these things are actually absolute, you know, bullocks But you know, it it's just a matter of Some are some aren't also like, where did it come from? Was there was this something that's that humans did for thousands of years and we stopped doing it and it Was working and then we stopped because it was like, what is this? but then they're actually they did it for thousands of years because There was a reason it worked. Let's find out scientifically why versus I've decided that if I carry this crystal around, I won't get cancer That's very different than something that's based in kind of more ancient wisdom that might have a reason for having worked in the past so I don't know I Yeah, I don't know. I like I like reason. That's why I'm here. Uh, Yeah, you know, we can't ever assume that we know everything I think what is interesting about the 40 hertz signal is that it is the gamma wave of So it is a brain wave that is part of our of our brain signaling and So that in itself is interesting. Why is that one working? What's the mechanism there? But beyond vibrating 40 hertz researchers at the reinhardt lab in boston, you know, university have looked into transcranial Alternating current stimulation. So last week we talked I talked a bit about like using magnets on your brain to treat a depression this week It's not magnets. It's just alternating current on your head. So like if you have ever used like a Um a tins a muscle stimulator they get alternating current to stimulate your muscles. Maybe can help with muscle cramps or muscles Strengthening you can also people have been using them at particular Frequencies and in particular locations on their heads to stimulate Neural activity within their brains and it has been shown over time positive and negative results I don't know lots of studies going different directions. So they did a meta study a meta review of of a number of One a number of 100 over 100 published studies total over of over 2,800 human participants To look and see Whether or not this transcranial alternating current stimulation has an impact on cognitive functions Whether it's only for people who are Experiencing mental deterioration or a mentally challenged in any way or whether it helps some healthy people as well And really they found it just works It helps everybody It's not just helping people who already have uh disabilities or Deficiencies, it's also, uh, it can also enhance cognitive function It does depend on where the electrodes are placed. They found that A specialized type of this tax can target two brain regions at the same time manipulating how they Communicate with each other and so that in itself can either Enhance or reduce cognitive function because it's affecting how the brain is communicating within itself But it's definitely a technique that Has promise. So yeah, stimulating your brain with electricity And this might be a really silly question But how is this different from the electroshock therapy of like the 70s and 80s? So the difference is that the electroshock therapy was much like, you know, it's a it's higher voltage. It's um The electroshock therapy was more focused on the frontal lobe these The tax stimulation is a lot lower Uh voltage it's different time frame. So it's like the amount of time that the stimulation is occurring is different and then also um Where the electrodes are placed is also very impactful Okay, so there are actually south therapy was like a blunt object kind of like a sledgehammer And now this is like oh, we're getting into needlework. Okay, got it. Okay. Thank you I appreciate the clarification because I was like, I thought we did this and it mixed results Right, so yes mixed results on the sledgehammer effect, right and mixed results also with This needlework as we get more and more refined and the resolution is, you know Increased and increased and we start getting more specific into what areas of the brain are impacted but there appears to actually be a Moderate improvement sometimes great improvement depending on what's happening and who it's happening to and what area of the brain is involved related to Working memory long-term memory attention executive control intelligence How you interact with the world around you so Yes I'm not I'm not ready to electrify my brain, but This is yeah, it's not for everyone It's not for most people probably Uh, but it's it's interesting. It's probably more so going to be used in a therapeutic nature And that'll yeah, it's probably where it's going to be seeing the most promise Moving into the future. Um, I did want to bring up a couple of Cool studies that I didn't put into the notes Or actually one specific one that people are talking about This week that at first I had been like, oh, whatever You know spinal implant stimulating the spine helping people walk I didn't see that But this is really cool What they're doing. Okay, so researchers have published in nature this week their work with one individual, uh, who's part of a study, uh, and How they have created a system that takes The intent of movement From the brain, so they've got cranial implants cortical implants that are positioned to read the electrical activity That reads the intent Of the individual who was injured Uh had issues Had it kind of hit a plateau with walking with a walker and hadn't been able to Get to a point where he was able to Completely return to normal movement or walking activity Uh, they put these cortical implants in they have a Backpack, which is like a they call it a wearable processing unit that receives that data from the brain and then basically as an ai and sends stimulated stimulation Through an implantable pulse generator and electrodes that are in the spine Below the level of the injury To move Muscles in the legs And where previously he was unable to move his hip flexor uh muscles with Within a very short period of time after just first getting this system put on get every getting over the implantation and getting it Moving without a lot of training. He was able to start thinking about moving his hip flexors and his hip flexors were move moving he's recovered a lot of uh of his Independent activity able to walk without a walker is able to move You know still with there's a lot of difficulty involved But in the years that he has been using this it has led to recovery that Is beyond just using the stimulator so his his body is starting to repair and Fix some of those connections that were missing How how long ago did he get this? It's several years ago. So it's In the discussion, I think they say it's something like over three years or or so. That's amazing Well, I love that it's it's already a small enough processor that it's a backpack and if this if this continues And and they continue to develop it It'll be a bracelet and then it'll be a necklace and then it'll be like a lapel pin And you'll be like good to go right it's gonna keep getting smaller and or it's yeah completely implantable, right? You have you don't need a backpack. You've just got you know something. That's just you know a tattoo in your skin or just You know under the skin Yeah, just inject a little a little pill shaped thing and you're good to go This I love this this this is amazing. This is a really smart Connection of a bunch of different kind of science that's been happening all at once This is the perfect concert of bringing them together for a real improvement in somebody's life And I love that this isn't even just we tried it and it worked It's this person's life has been improved for over several years And it's getting amazing. Yeah, his autonomy is improving Increasing. Yeah, it's yeah life is getting better You know, who knows if if the lesion in a spinal cord will ever be completely healed or you know get to that point, but this is An amazing part of that and there's definitely within the nervous system We know there's this mount mantra and in neuroscience is use it or lose it and There's also feedback loops. So if you Are unable to use something there is atrophy, right if you're able to Use it then the feedback loop becomes positive then and so maybe that will help the healing Yeah, absolutely that makes nothing but sense is you get to keep the the muscles moving you're Not to mention you might be building new pathways in your brain to Figure out how to get around certain issues that that are that are preventing you from being able to ambulate normally Oh my goodness, I know it's very cool Yeah, so I wasn't originally going to talk about this story, but I uh took a deeper look Into the study which is available Through nature and it's it's an incredible Advance all the stuff that they're doing. Um, and like you said Where is it going to go from here? How many people is this going to work for? Um, I mean, I guess the question is also You know, who's going to be at the place where they're like, yes put Things in my head, you know You know cut a hole in my in my skull and put implants in my brain and make it work Well, not not everybody who has hearing loss or Has has been born without hearing wants a cochlear implant But like having them available is still a huge improve improvement on quality of life for people who want To have that procedure. So It's you're right. It's not everybody's gonna want it, but particularly if somebody gets injured later in life and and has Has a harder time adjusting to a new lifestyle. I think it might It might be very attractive And it's just it's just amazing to me that we know enough At this point in time to be able to put the electrodes in the correct place in the spinal cord and just be able to go Okay, your brain thought this We're just gonna send that information to the spinal cord right now and make that work. I love it Oh So cool Next up robot legs, right? Yeah, and so this you know, additionally, this is not just The the paper in nature is walking naturally after spinal cord injury using a brain brain spine interface You know, there's also yeah robot legs Brain spine interface we can add more legs or maybe we can add superpowers to your legs or Well, actually this is just basically the iron man suit, right? Like it's You know, it doesn't have the the nuclear power I mean it isn't it isn't I guess it's more it's sorry to to attach it to the appropriate Um comic book thing. I guess it is more like dr. Octavius's Extra arms. That's more what it's more like it. Yeah, it is spine and it's taking his thoughts and and moving the arms or so it's it's more similar to that but Yeah, it's it's why I mean they put a thing in the brain But then it's wireless and in the backpack and then they're like oh electrodes in the spine and I don't know This whole thing is yeah, that means if you had limb loss and you could take brain waves and Then you just need to create It's it's very close to to having a real-time response from From artificial limbs as well. I think it's it's it's It's parallel, but it's I think it's gonna help inform that kind of research as well I mean, I mean just not just recovery from Paralization or spinal injury, but maybe this will help Additionally with limb loss. Maybe it will like you said, maybe this is going to be maybe we can take it further It's just you know, the plasticity of the brain is I did It's extreme. It can go places. It can take us places Which I think is cool. Oh like I mentioned like Very very briefly right before the show actually started Hypoxia if you Blair Want to inhale less oxygen? Maybe it'll be good for you. Well, I mean it's good for mice Possibly I'm not gonna do it now because I have a passenger that I need to send oxygen to so I'm gonna I'm gonna wait Wait to figure this out, but tell me about it. Yep, publishing in plus biology researchers used a mouse model of accelerated aging and well, they They gave them less oxygen. So instead of like Instead of caloric restriction. It was oxygen restriction and oxygen restrictions seemed to Help their brains. They don't know why they're the mechanisms are completely unknown, but oxygen restriction led to extended lifespan in these aging accelerated mice So then people in Denver should be living longer. Yep And oxygen bars are bad for you Very this this is these are just yes, it's very interesting conclusions or related ideas, but uh, yeah, there is a suggestion from some data that there is less metabolic disease Uh diabetes and cardiopum cardiovascular cardiopulmonary vascular disease co pv disease in higher altitudes and maybe some of this is related to the oxygen levels But I don't know. There are also other drawbacks higher suicide rates. I don't know things are very Don't go restricting your oxygen just yet folks. No, thanks No, I'm good. That's the whole thing about COVID that was like causing real lasting problems to people who had real bad COVID right was was oxygen deprivation. So I'm no I'm good Just stick with your oxygen the way that it's given to you and you know, I don't know I'm gonna wait for that 40 hertz spa It won't hurt Have we done it? We've done it. Have we come to the end of our stories? We did it. We did it. We did it. We did it. We did it. All right. Oh, I got the hiccups just in time It was perfectly timed Everyone thank you so much for joining us for another episode of this week in science We hope that you enjoyed the show. I need to thank Very special people for all of their help. Thank you for everyone in the chat rooms for being here in the chat rooms You know keeping up with us while we were talking about things and making comments and giving us your thoughts We really appreciate you in the chat Additionally fada. Thank you so much for all of your work on social media and show notes Identity four. Thank you for recording the show gourd are in law others Thank you for helping make those chat rooms happy places to be and rachel. Thank you for editing the show additionally cannot Go on without specifically saying. 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So everybody listen to what I say I use the scientific math week in science this week in science This week in science This week in science This week in science I've got one disclaimer and it shouldn't be news. That's what I say doodle doodle do And we're in the aftershock Just under a tight 90 Just under I think fata's very excited about this. Yes, you know in our uh discord. We did a job player Oh, you know couldn't have done it without hiccups kicks Oh boy It's getting i'm god i'm i'm panting when I talk now It's so fun. You can't inhale completely Like there's something in the way down there He'll be here in no time We have to talk about the end game here I don't know. It's it's probably time we have a sit down and a conversation for like What happens in august? Yeah Or even earlier. We don't know earlier or later we Yeah, it's probably getting up to like the uh We should talk about this. Yeah stage. Yeah, we probably mean it's end of may Yeah Yeah, I don't have to talk about it right now. No, I do have a camera eight more weeks of work and then I'm I'm stopping my day job at that point. So awesome Cool. So are do you do you have a good? maternity leave Yeah, it's not bad. Yeah, I mean, so first of all california's uh Got some some fairly good stuff. Um, okay, but so you technically get six weeks before your due date Um, but I think I would go insane. So I'm taking three I think three is enough And you have to go earlier, but whatever. Yeah Yeah, it's three is enough where it's like if if he's a couple weeks early, then I'll still be out Which is good. I really don't want to go into labor at work. Um And uh, nope, it's also not too long where that's the other thing is like I don't want to just sit on a couch And so it's it is It's gonna force me to move around and do stuff and talk to people and And stuff to a certain point, right? So I want to kind of keep doing that As long as I can Um, luckily I have a dog who requires me to go on walks every day. So I'm getting my walks in You're gonna go for another walk More and more walking well, I'm sure that Justin probably uh his His missing being here is probably something that was passed along due to children Yes, yeah Daycare programs and whatnot. Yeah but Oh the joys you are in for right now so many good things coming But actually yes, I'm very excited It's gonna be great. Yeah I've already read two books. I'm on to book three So I'm trying to learn things Um Just like, you know, when I when I got married I had to start from the beginning because I wasn't someone who had Been planning my wedding since I was a kid, right like married before all the things Because they've been planning it forever or they they were Made of honor before and they've been through all the things and I I didn't know any of the things And similarly like I knew I probably wanted kids, but I wasn't like someone who Baby sat a bunch as a child. I didn't I wasn't around a lot of babies growing up and I also just like hadn't really thought about it because I It was never a sure thing so So I wasn't putting too much mental space or effort into Learning these things and then it became a reality and I was like, oh, I guess I have to learn these things now You'll learn as you go. Yeah. Yeah, and it continues to be a learning experience and the books are awesome and it's because it's you know experience from other people but In the end you just have to do what you know is right and Get help from other people Never think you're alone. Well, and uh, literally billions of people have done this before so Yes, they've gotten through it. Um, I did appreciate I will put a personal plug out there for anyone else who may be looking for books about having babies In the future this book called expecting better, which I guess is pretty famous, but it's it's basically like Okay, let's talk about all the things that doctors tell you and your friends and families tell you and midwives tell you and all these things And let's look at the data Awesome Let's dive into the actual research. Oh, they tell you You can't drink coffee when you're pregnant. The only research was done on like eight cups a day And there's also like all these all this pressure on not gaining too much weight when you're pregnant But statistically speaking a baby is more likely to have negative outcomes if you gain too little weight then gain too much weight Right. Um, in the end there's all sorts of like neurological and spinal issues that can happen if you don't gain enough The worst thing that can happen if you gain too much weight is that your baby is statistically more likely to b.o.b. Says an adult But that's it So it's it's something it's certainly something but it's nothing as bad As being underweight so for all of the pressure that gets put on you to not gain too much weight It should actually be like the other way around But it's you know, whatever It should be just be healthy be healthy Yeah, and it's looks different for everybody like and that's different for everyone. Yeah, that meant I had to Basically only eat white bread for the first 16 weeks of my pregnancy But it ended up working out. It was fine fortified white bread. I'm sure I ate some pasta also. I ate a lot of applesauce I survived off of applesauce They kept me going. I mean, yeah, you think they're like, oh Sometimes it's like don't gain any weight. You're like, how can I I can't keep anything down Yes, I did not know for example that uh, there was this thing called hyperemesis where Hey everybody listening I'm watching did you know that uh, there's morning sickness and all which is just like, oh, I don't feel good Maybe I barf once but um, there's this thing called hyperemesis, which You don't stop barfing all day every day You barf three to five times a day every day Four weeks two months That was wild. I didn't know that was the thing that could happen to you It's like three percent of people but I got to be uh, and you were one of those three percent lucky lottery ticket winner there But yeah, I mean like the media is just the worst with uh, how pregnancy is portrayed, right? They're just like, oh you wake up. I barfed. Oh, I'm good now. I'm good for my day I was not I think the biggest thing yet. Stay off the internet Don't go to the internet for advice now even just like tv's and movies too like tv's tv and movies the tv's oh those tv's all of them The way they uh, the way they portray pregnancy is uh, I mean, I could have guessed it was wrong But I couldn't have guessed how it was wrong Um, and I learned in lots of ways. Yeah There's so many ways yeah I mean the problem is yeah, there is the generalization which is generalized to like A very specific bias cultural bias And then it ignores a whole bunch of other things that people and ways of being and ways of experiencing and And the science Yeah, it's I mean it's very interesting to learn like One study from 1965 and you're not allowed to take a particular drug while you're pregnant ever again, right? Just something like that. Yeah Some of those studies were very good. And we and we think you know, it's good We don't take certain drugs during pregnancy, but yes, we have time Yeah, there's others that don't matter and especially um What I ended up taking for my uh, vomiting and nausea was something that The two pieces of it which is um unisom and uh b6 Are okay to take while pregnant But this drug called benedictin from this one study No was uh, basically forbidden by the fda to be taken while while in pregnancy But all it is is those two things Together yeah, and it was this one study that had a bunch of confounding variables That Then in the end they pulled it But these two other ones When taken separately, there's a huge mass of scientific evidence that proves that it's fine So then it's It's very funny that it just got pulled from the market, but doctors still prescribe the two pieces Because they know it works. Yes Yes um The other thing that was funny about coffee that I thought was wild was so most of the studies are eight cups or more but also The problem is it's mostly an early pregnancy when If you're if you have more nausea You are statistically less likely to miscarry Because you have higher hormone levels which are causing the nausea Therefore the pregnancy is proving more successful. Therefore you are More nauseous therefore you are less likely to miscarry like it's this whole they're they're they're connected, right tied together Yeah, if you're nauseous you're less likely to drink coffee That's very true So these confounding variables mean that they associated less coffee drinking anecdotally with lower miscarriage rates But then when you actually do studies on caffeine Intake introduced into mice for example You have to current people Nobody's drinking that much coffee It's like, uh, it's it's very you hope That's like, yeah, you hope a pot and a half. I don't know you're taking it to the vein Too much coffee Hook up to mr. Coffee directly That much coffee would make you nauseous just on it's That much coffee would make you like vibrate At 40 Hertz. Yes Oh man Anyway, so yeah, so that book was really cool because she was basically like let's look at what's statistically accurate And what is statistically inaccurate what is based on an old study that has nothing What is based on current studies that make sense? It was very cool That's awesome And in the end she kind of just was like here's what the data says Make your own decision so Pretty wild Pretty wild. I love I love Love when you can get the actual stats. That's like yeah I would always go doctor wasn't available for me and yeah, the not all doctors have that stuff. So no Yeah, that's pretty cool. And um, she also had like a guide on how to um How to talk to your doctor about this kind of stuff Because they'll they'll tell you these kind of blanket statements, right? Yeah, for example, uh, they might tell you that um When you're late in in pregnancy that uh, you need to be induced because your amniotic fluid is low Um, but if you chug a bunch of water before you go It actually might be fine Oh, that's really good to know actually because I usually try to not drink too much water before I go into an ultrasound because you're getting poked In the bladder by a blunt Yeah Um Yeah, it was pretty interesting. I don't know Man, I wish I'd had that book. I didn't have that book. Yeah, I just had the internet friend. It was so good Yeah, the internet's a scary place for advice So scary except for here Yeah, that's true. We do our best. Yeah, we do and you're you're helping people telling them about this book Yeah, it's so good expecting better expecting better Yeah, um, I I think my child came down here and I think I need to help him do something. He's acting strange. This is what you get with 12 year olds. I can't wait I know I know like Um, I feel like the stereotypical thing is that people are really excited for babies and toddlers and young children And then they're like, oh god, they're going to be teenagers one day and all of my experience with kids My professional experience is a teenager And so I'm like, I don't know what I'm gonna do with this potato, but I can't wait to meet the teenager Play a good foundation with that potato. I can't wait. He's gonna be so great Yes, go see to your 12 year old potato and I will go see to mine. I hear scary noises. Oh, no, I need to go Okay All right. Say good night. Kiki. Oh, yeah. Good night. Kiki say good night Blair. Good night Blair Good night, everyone. Thank you all for joining us Stay curious about the noises that are coming from down here that my child is causing and stay healthy safe It will see you all soon Next week, hopefully