 Let's get started and see everyone. Great. I'd like to call the March 14 2022 parks and recreation advisory board meeting to order. We please have the roll call. Aaron Angel. Scott Conlon is currently not present. Jeff Ellen Bogan. Hello. Manoj, young war. Present here. Paige Lewis. Here. Nicholas Novello. Here. Dan Olson. Here. And council liaison. Tim Waters. Here. Great. Thanks everyone. We'll now go to approval of the agenda. Are there any changes to the agenda? Yeah, could we do new business? All three items before we do old business. Anyone have any concerns with that? Okay. Are there any other amendments to the agenda? No. With that, do I have a motion to approve the agenda as amended? I move to approve the agenda as amended. Great. Thanks, Aaron. You need a second. Thank you. All those in favor? Hi. Great. Thank you. Okay. Next we'll move to approval of the previous month's minutes. And I did have a couple of edits. Does anyone else have any edits? I will tell you mine quickly. Okay. So in the first page of the minutes under old business. Discuss 2022 proud agenda calendar. It says page noted she had prioritized the new facility. And I just wanted to say it prioritized. Talking about a new recreation facility. Noted that having a report card of interim things from parks will help. So I think it's a great idea of doing a report card that was. An update on what had been accomplished from the previous master plan. Does anyone remember? Cause I think she put it out there as an idea, something that we might talk about. That sounds right. Page. I don't actually remember the full context of this. Probably something that's much more doable. It makes more sense as far as we've been tracking projects. And I think it's a report card of. Progress on items in the previous master plan. And then. The last one is where it's a little bit further down. Steve Ransweiler requested the board make dates and suggestions for the tour. I just would say suggestions for the upcoming. Field trip or tour, just so there's context in the notes. And that's it. There's no other edits. I need a motion to approve a minute. A minute. I move we approve the minutes from last month as, as amended. Need a second. Great. All those in favor. I. Any post. Great. The minutes are approved as amended. Okay. Now we are public invited to be heard. I was told earlier that no one had reached out. Have we heard from anyone since. Okay. Then we will move along to new business per just request. Right. Do you want to. Oh, go ahead. Okay. Okay. Okay. Yes. Page. I was just going to say, I would go ahead and do a quick introduction here for people on this first topic. I believe is zero waste. Am I correct? It is. Yeah. The zero length resolution. Myself scroll up here. So our presenters tonight are going to be. Lisa Knoblock, who is our program manager. For sustainability. Charles. Who is our manager of solid waste program for the city. We are going to be talking about water conservation and sustainability. And. A split position at this point between water conservation and sustainability. And the three of them. Thank you. Who wants to start. I'll go ahead. Great. Thank you for that introduction, David. Chair and members of the board. Thank you for having us tonight. Charlie was unable to join us this evening. But I'll be presenting and then Lisa and I will be here to. Answer questions. Just. Should I bring up my presentation or was. That the Veronica going to bring that up. I can also, I don't think I have ability to share my screen at this time. I can make it for you. Sure. Share. Oh yeah. Great. I don't have your. Yeah. The presentation. Hold on. Okay. While Veronica is giving me that ability. We are presenting today on the zero waste resolution update and universal recycling ordinance. These are two items. That. Are being developed this year and hopefully you can all see my screen. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to give a quick background. On. The history and why we are updating and developing these items. And then we have a discussion question that we are going to focus on. During our time today. And that we'd really like to hear some feedback from the board to help guide us in our work. And then after the discussion, I'll have just a quick two slides. On the timeline for implementation and how other ways that you can do that. And then we have a discussion question. What does the impact on our community in different ways from litter to pollution as well as impacting our green house gas emissions. And we have a long history of trying to reduce trash in our community. From starting recycling in 1990. To passing our first year waste resolution in 2008. And updating our residential. Resolution. And then we have a discussion question. And then we have a discussion question. So what we're focusing on this year. Is up developing an update to that zero. Waste resolution and drafting a universal recycling ordinance. So the main difference between the resolution and the ordinance is that the resolution will be setting our. Commitments and policy and direction for the city. We will be bringing. And then we will be focusing on. And then we will be focusing on. Recycling. And then we will really help guide staff work going forward. And then the ordinance will really set this work into law. We're focusing on an ordinance. Zero. A universal recycling ordinance can have different focuses. It could. In the name says recycling. So often the focus is on recycling, but there are ordinances. That looked at composting, especially in restaurants. It can apply to different sectors. We're looking at a large multifamily commercial. Those would be new additions. We already look to provide recycling for all our residents. And it can be done in a phased approach. So we're hoping to present this ordinance to council. By the end of the year. But that doesn't mean that January, if it, if past January 1st next year, it'll start being implemented. And then the next year could be continued education. And then it could start maybe with a focus on recycling to begin with. And have a face approached over time. So the guiding principles that are guiding us. This work is that we want everyone to live in a clean and safe community that we work to increase access to recycling and composting for all. And that reducing waste supports our climate action goals. Currently we have a residential waste diversion target. That was established in the sustainability plan. Of 50% by 2025. Last year we were at 42% of our residential waste being diverted from the landfill. So we are on track to meet that goal. And in terms of composting, it's currently an opt in service. So we have about 24% participation in that. And I know our way services staff are looking into other options and in looking at different program possibilities. Of how we could increase that participation in the future. So I mentioned earlier that we are looking at more aggressive targets. Right now we just have the residential target. We are looking at more aggressive targets. So in late 2020, we did a greenhouse gas life cycle analysis. And in that analysis, we. Looked at these two more ambitious targets. So both are at the same goal at 2025. But aiming for 50% all sector waste diversion at that time. The first scenario aims for 85% all sector. And the second scenario aims for 60% all sector waste. Residential waste. Why all would be any waste being generated in long line. Not just residential. The second scenario is more ambitious bringing that 85% goal to 2035. For the residential and commercial sectors. But 60% for construction demolition. That is construction demolition doesn't. Have as much infrastructure. So we're looking at. But it's probably the hardest sector to increase recycling at this time. But still working by 2050 to have 95% of all sector waste division. So these are the current proposed targets that we are looking at. And considering including in the zero waste resolution update for city council's review. So just in summary. So we're looking at. The universal recycling, probably at a minimum will require recycling for commercial multifamily and residential. But has the opportunity to explore. More. Additional sectors like construction demolition or come close to me in the future. We are reaching out to other communities like bolder and for Collins to see how their ordinances are drafted. So we're really trying to reach out early to our community and boards and commissions to. Develop a resolution and ordinance that really fits long month. So we really wanted to understand with these increased targets. What are specific considerations we should be thinking through for parks and recreation. And I can keep this question up. Or I could pull my, my slight, my slides down, whichever is preferred. I think you could probably take the slide down. That we can all. There you go. Are there any comments? Yeah, I'm not sure if you can. So I'd like to start with a question. That about. Do we know about the impact of residential versus commercial sectors? Which, which has the. A larger amount of these generated commercial or. Or residential. As far as trash and recycling. And then also as far as natural waste, such as compost. I'm going to why thank you for that question. I'm going to pull up our. Our life cycle analysis that looks at all of that. The data that I most recently have is from 2019. And at that time. I think there's a Boulder County requirement for all haulers to report that data. There are data that was that's being reported. But from when I, the data that I have, which is from 2019, I think it was the second year they were reporting data. So I know they did not fully have. All commercial data. I don't know if Lisa, you have access to the most. Recent data. So let me. Pull that up very quickly so I can answer that question. My understanding is that. But I think besides the restaurants. Most. Other commercial entities are not generating. A large amount of food waste. I would. Or any food service business or groceries. Stores as well. In terms of. Tonnage. Let me just. So. When. As others are. If other council members have questions. Well, Francie is looking for that. If you can use the raise hand function, that'll help me be able to call folks in order. Yeah. And I just, I just found that number. So from our other commercials. The amount of waste landfill. Was about twice as much as much as the amount of waste landfill. In. In 2019. And it was. Not quite twice the total. If you're looking at composting and recycling in landfill. So we do have a significant portion. That's non residential. That is being pulled by other commercial haulers at this time. And then looking, but I was correct that. About. Twice as much is composted. By residents than by the commercial sector. So. That I think in terms of opportunities, there's a lot of opportunity for composting. The residential site and a lot of opportunity for recycling. In, in the commercial sector. So Paige, I'll have to apologize. I don't have. Raise hand. This is Aaron. I don't have the raise phone. The ability to do like a knot. Sorry. Just not my. Okay. No, that's no problem. I thought it was just kind of standard on the. Display down at the bottom. That's okay. You can raise your actual hands. That works too. Are there other questions. From board members. Yeah, Nicola. Thanks, Paige. My question is. What if our, what if our. What if our peer cities done or how have they handled this type of endeavor in the past, right? How do we compare? And what are, maybe that's a way for us to get some wisdom out of this, but what the pitfalls are. Have we done any analysis about. Other cities. That have done similar things. Yes, we have. And I, I. We'll probably answer one of the questions. I might pass it over to Lisa. So we've spoken with both city of Boulder and city of Fort Collins. Boulder's program has been in effect. For. Being a couple of years now, they did have a, a long. Education period. They worked a lot with. Boulder County pace to focus on the education and their ordinance focuses on. Recycling and requiring recycling for both commercial and multi. Family. I believe they also. Are and Lisa correct me if I'm wrong. I think they also look at comprehensive. For restaurants specifically. And so the end they really put. They, their focus a lot has been on. Making sure that all the businesses. And multifamily have recycling available. I think. Where they're starting, they haven't fully figured out. Is that then making sure that people are using the bins properly, but they spoke a lot about, you have kind of like stages. And they're still kind of the getting it. Access that people can recycle before they can really continue to launch education. And I'll hand it over to Lisa to talk a little bit more about for Collins's program. Yeah. Sure. So the Fort Collins program, they, they have a little bit different of a take it's, it's focused right now just on recycling. They did a really extensive community engagement process of about two years. And then right as they were getting ready to roll it out. COVID hit. So they actually just rolled it out. Mid last year. So they're still pretty new in their process, but they have been extremely helpful in sharing with us. A lot of the analysis and lessons learned that they did. They've both Boulder and Fort Collins, as well as some folks from Boulder County. You know, helped give us some tips on. You know, what timeframe do we look at in terms of rollout? Cause if you give people too much time, that people just drag their feed and then you can. Lose some of the folks that you did the engagement with in the first place. So usually about six to 12 months is a good rollout period. We've gotten some tips from both of them around possible exemptions. So support Collins has a really straightforward exemption process. They have a minimum. Threshold. That. That folks need in terms of determining. When you're in the process. When you're in the process. When you're in the process. When you're in the process. When you're in the process. You know, I think that. That folks need in terms of determining. Which businesses are which entities have to comply. And then their focus in terms of enforcement is actually on the hauler rather than boulders. Focus is on the property manager. And it or property owner. And those are two very different approaches. And so. Part of what we're doing in our stakeholder process is, you know, we're talking to a lot of. You know, external folks like this, or other folks like this, who are not likely to be presented by or who are going to be really keen rolling this out to understand. You know, what's the approach that long month should take for us to be most successful. So we are talking to those folks. We're also trying to learn from other communities that have done it as well. There's obviously folks in other States, particularly on the west coast that have other ordinances, but we're really trying to learn from our regional communities. Councilman water. Lisa or Francie, it may be that everybody on this panel understands what we have the capacity to haul, right, in terms of composting and recycling, and to grow that capacity, what that will require, because Lisa, you've made reference to haulers, and I didn't know until we got a presentation, I was on the council and we were getting a presentation what the legal constraints were, what we can and can't do with restaurants, multiple multi-housing units, schools, et cetera. So help this group understand what our focus is right now, what the constraints are, and then they probably ought to have some idea of what the implications are, because that's what we'll come to grips with, have to deal with at the time, what there are costs associated with doing, of any of the things we'd like to do, and how those costs are likely to get covered, and this group ought to think about that in relationship to the other things you're going to talk about as priorities. Yeah, thank you, Council Member Waters. I'll jump in on that. So just to take a little bit of a step back for folks to understand, so Longmont does have, we have our own municipal sanitation service, but we only serve single-family households, we serve trash recycling and composting, and we serve some multi-family units up to eight units. Folks can, multi-family up to eight units can opt into the city's municipal service. And, you know, and if Charlie would be the best to give you kind of the much more finer grain details, but from my understanding, we're pretty at capacity from a municipal service standpoint. So if we were to expand additional service, be that to additional customers, we serve all residential customers currently for trash and recycling, and 24% as Francie mentioned earlier with regards to composting. If we were to have a big influx in terms of our composting subscriptions, we would probably need to adjust that, but we would probably likely be able to pay for that through service costs, although that's definitely for a question for, you know, our director of operations. With regards to the commercial sector, multi-family above those eight units, those are all serviced by private haulers. So they pay, we have, I don't know, probably a dozen or so private haulers that provide trash. We already have a haulers license that requires all haulers to provide recycling service if people want to pay for it, but that's all done through a private service. So the constraints to your question would largely be if we wanted to look at somehow expanding who we served through our municipal service. There wouldn't necessarily be constraints on the, if we continued to require that commercial entities go through a private hauler because that would be on the private haulers to manage. There are some constraints regionally in terms of facilities. So right now the only composting facility is pretty far away. And so that pretty dramatically impacts our tipping fee. So right now composting tends to be pretty expensive. There are some regional conversations about looking to collaborate on a closer located facility, but those are only in conversation right now. As far as costs ago, part of this process, as we look at evaluating those more aggressive goals that Francie mentioned, we'll be working with some consultants to do the data analysis around what are the programs and policies we would need to put in place to get to either of those different options and what would the costs associated be with those? So we don't have that information yet, but that'll be part of this process because it is likely that there's gonna be some additional costs somewhere. Part of why we're trying to go through this stakeholder engagement process is to understand if a universal recycling ordinance requires recycling of everyone, of residential and multifamily and commercial entities, that's an added cost for folks. And what can people bear given all of the other costs that people are dealing with right now? And what are some potential ways that we might be able to mitigate that through other measures? So can we help folks reduce the costs that they're currently paying for trash service to help offset the costs for recycling? Those sorts of things, that's what we're trying to figure out during the stakeholder process to really understand what both those opportunities and those constraints are and where people can absorb that. And then if there is additional costs to the city, we would need to determine that, be a conversation with city council where we would want to look to get that revenue from. So does that answer your question, council member Waters? Does that help folks? Yeah, there's just a lot of moving parts and it's easy for a group that doesn't know all that to say, yeah, let's do X, Y or Z without understanding how that might collide with other priorities, especially when we talk about increasing fees or rates, when we're also raising other electric water and because we hear from the public every time we do that. And I'm guessing we will when we get into this conversation and it's one of the most important conversations we're gonna have in the next year without a question, but there's just a lot, just the regional solution we're gonna need to find on composting, right? Just by itself is just gonna be a big challenge. I just, people have all that information as they're thinking about, if they're gonna make an endorsement and what the implications are, that's all. Nice job, thanks. Thank you. Yeah, I just have a quick question and then we'll go to you, Erin. I just wanted to hear briefly from David and Jeff about what would be different for them. I mean, Jeff, in terms of what impact this might have on recreation facilities, there were different requirements for recycling and composting and then for management of sort of parks and open space. I mean, I'm assuming you already take most of the materials that might come from like tree trimming and all that kind of thing. Like what do you see as the potential changes that this would bring in your areas? I don't see Jeff on yet. Jeff, are you on? Go ahead. Okay, I'll start. This is something that the city and timber and Charles have been working on before I got to the city even. It's really how do we expand that right now? Our trash program is that kind of balancing between the cost of getting people out to every location in the park that potentially could use a facility and trying to educate people to use those facilities and trying to associate closer to trailheads and to shelters in places where we know people are generating trash. And in those locations, a lot of that on the weekends is a challenge right now to get the seasonal help to pick that up. So we are definitely facing challenges trying to bring people in to do weekend trash. I'm sure as most of you remember at like Macintosh we just had overflowing just trash cans let alone the recycling out there as the amount of use increase out there. So it would take additional resources as far as helping to educate the public on which cans to use. We do have recycling in our parks right now but it's not at every facility that has a trash can. So we take some additional trash cans, some better education and some additional staff. The piece we're trying to do to help with that though is that timber is working on right now. There's a system called Big Bellies and they are a trash system that's basically solar powered and it's a trash compactor so that we can actually get more material into one container. So we're not having to run out as often with staff. So maybe we'd be able to review staff a little bit to do that but timber is working in that right now with big belly trash systems. But again, we are just really struggling to get that kind of weekend help to keep up on top of it. People try to do the best and they start seeing things alongside the trash containers in the parks. Right now we're just looking at potentially taking those temporary dollars and moving them to overtime for staff. So it definitely is going to take some additional work to get the right containers and education but right now we have staff out there dealing with trash is already out there. So I think incorporating this in is just gonna be something that I think we are already wanting and willing to take on. And I guess to add on to that, the containers for our facilities, we have recycling and trash right now. Don't see that being a big impact. I would guess that our bigger impact would be at our events. And Rhythm on the River, Charlie has helped us really make that a environmental event. And there were years that we were at 90% of what I would call things put in the trash barrels were recyclable. And so that's been kind of an ongoing thing for Rhythm but we need to do probably a better job on Longmont Lights and our triathlon and Turkey Trot. And he has helped us a little bit but the education is really the biggest piece I think for us. Great, thanks. I'm sorry, this was- Oh, go ahead, yep. The education piece, I think that's a, like Jeff said, it's a big piece of that. I think Francie and Lisa recognize that as well. But also there's the design pieces too that we try to make sure we're getting recycling containers that don't take a pizza box really easier. We at least can pull in the glass and the aluminum cans and not have it so contaminated. That's another piece of the parks usually happens is people start getting a lot of trash and sending besides the trash containers. They're just throwing stuff into the most available container. So we do get a lot of cross-contamination of the parks but designs a piece of that as well as education. Thanks, that's helpful. Erin, did you still have a question? Yeah, my question is for probably for Lisa but maybe for Francie. Can you tell me, you probably just couldn't tell me really quickly, to start a landfill that the city uses have nothing, capture technology and do they use it? That's a great question. And from not that I'm aware of, Francie, I don't know if that's something that you're aware of. I do not believe the landfill has a methane capture technology. Our landfills are newer. So I know compared to older landfills they do emit less and even if something is accident, like you put your yard waste into the landfill instead of composting it actually is a, I always switch anaerobic and aerobic. I think it's anaerobic so it actually, the carbon is still actually being stored in the landfill so it actually is still a net positive. It's even better to compost the woody material but even if it ends up in our landfill we are still having a net positive on our greenhouse gas emissions. When we did our life cycle analysis we act because of things like that. And for those who aren't aware a life cycle analysis looks at not just the trash going to the landfill but thinking about the materials and how they were produced, the transportation of the product and then where the product goes. So even with all of that, I believe our trash still had a, it avoided more emissions than generated emissions. Though that being said we could avoid even more emissions with increased recycling and increased composting and probably also a methane capture system. So I see that you guys are potentially coming back around May with a draft ordinance. So you'll take all the feedback that you're getting from us and others and draft the ordinance and then we'll get a chance to take a look. Yes, and I actually had two more slides and that I can pull up. So this is our timing. As you mentioned we'll be returning in May with the draft and then we'll working on developing the universal recycling ordinance. And if requested, we could also bring that to this board as well. And May will be specifically focused on the resolution. And then other ways to stay involved. We have an engaged long-lock page where we have a quick pull as well as a place for people to ask questions and submit ideas. And then this is my phone number. This is also the general sustainability in-vax but you're also welcome to both Lisa and Charlie are also happy to answer questions. And we can, oh, I can always forward you to whoever makes the most sense to answer the questions. Great, thanks so much and thanks for working on that. So when is the appropriate time to do the input on the ordinance? So we've asked questions. So we have not yet drafted the ordinance. Are you interested in giving a more detailed feedback? And so maybe it may be best for maybe let's connect after there's any other board member and we can either set up a time to meet or see if it would make sense for us to meet in kind of in different focus group we're working on. But yes, we'd be happy to talk with you more if you had a lot of more details, thoughts and opportunities and ideas for the ordinance. Member Water. Yeah, in addition to this in this phase during the public engagement phase and the input that through sessions like this and whatever follow-up you might wanna do with Francie and Lisa in that July time, light of December timeframe assuming you will have passed a resolution and at some point in that next six months we'll receive a draft ordinance. There'll be at least two opportunities. One on July 25th, I think. Excuse me, there'll be a public forum. So anybody on any topic can come and bring input on whatever they'd like to have the council here. And if this is a priority, that would be a good opportunity. In addition to public invited to be heard in public hearing when we're actually dealing with an ordinance. So I'm not certain when that's gonna happen and I'm certain that Francie and Lisa will get lots of guidance on the timing and all that. But those would be two opportunities. During the public forum, when we have an ordinance to consider, we'll discuss that in public. We'll take public testimony before we adopt an ordinance which is part of our protocol. Thank you. Thanks so much Francie and Lisa, great to have you. Thank you for having us. Okay, our next agenda item is to hear from Dan Wilford about the purchase near McCall Lake. Board members and council member Waters, thank you for this opportunity to bring you another land acquisition through the open space program. As we try to leverage our open space dollars, we've got partners on this land acquisition with water resources teaming up with our open space program to jointly purchase this roughly three acres with Boulder County. The total acquisition dollar amount is $430,000. Boulder County is gonna provide the 215 and water resources in open space is gonna split that difference. This is three acres that's immediately to the west of the McCall Lake nature area. I've provided you a vicinity map to show you that particular location. For this cost, we do get a foundation. The current owner has gone through Boulder County's land use process to develop the property and he's given no real specific reasons why he's not continuing this, but he's gone through that situation. So we've got a built foundation. We have a septic system that's been installed and ready for attachment. The other thing that we have on this parcel also is along this peak water tap. And just for your information, the value of that long speak water tap today is about $115,000. Again, it falls into the open space criteria as providing visual corridor access to lakes and trails and passive recreation opportunities. It also implements and assists us in implementing some of the open space in Greenway policies and strategies. Boulder County has taken this acquisition through their open space advisory board as well as the County commissioners. And both of those have approved this acquisition unanimously. The interesting aspect of this is we will, based on your recommendation, take this acquisition to council on the 29th, kind of what we would call a parent child. Situation where the first thing we will do is take the land acquisition itself to the council for approval, follow up with an IGA and granting Boulder County a conservation easement for their participation. So it's basically a two-step process through council. So with that said, I will leave it up to you for any additional questions. Happy to answer any of those. I will tell you that we did reach out to Colorado Division of Parks and Wildlife for a Fishing for Fun grant for this acquisition. Their response was, why don't you guys go ahead and buy this three acre parcel and then come back to us. We would be happy to fund a perimeter trail around the Redsmore, similar to that that we've done at Lake Macintosh. So that would be our next hope. Knowing that we are, well, as you all know, very tied up in a wide variety of capital development projects for parks, it would be yet another opportunity to provide passive recreation with shelters and restrooms on that lot. So with that, I'm happy to answer any questions you might have about this acquisition. Great. Simone Waters, did you have a question or is your hand up from before? Anyone have a question? If not, I think we could entertain a motion to recommend this acquisition to Council. Yeah, Nicholas. I motion to recommend this acquisition to City Council. We have a second. Thanks, Dan. I second. Okay. All those in favor? Any opposed? Nope. I think we're all supported, Dan. Is there anything else you need? I am good. Thank you very much for your support. Okay. And our next item is to talk about the April meeting in person or virtual. Jeff, do you, are you gonna adjust that? Yep, I can. So we have been okay to come back in person if that's what the Board wants to do. At this point in time, we don't have the ability to do a hybrid, but it's my understanding that the clerk's office will be taking that to Council to get direction from them. And that may be available to us in the future. But as of right now, we have to pick one or the other. Just wondered what your thoughts were for the April meeting. So and just as a reminder, we have the for COVID typically met at the office on sunset. And Jeff and David and I at least talked about potentially we met in a conference room, but those of you that have been there probably know there's also a bigger kind of open space where they have public meetings where if folks were more comfortable, we could set up more sort of spaced apart, studying if that made any difference to people one way or the other. So any discussion? Yeah. I would feel much more comfortable if we were in a well ventilated larger space as opposed to a smaller conference room. Great. Thanks. Erin. I'd like to meet outside and not because COVID, but because it's more in line with our mission and keeping things thinking about the park. So meeting outside when the weather is appropriate and in our parks and recreation facilities so that we're seeing. Have you guys ever considered meeting outside? Jeff and David, I'm not sure how we would do that public. No, we haven't. The other time we really meet outside is when we do our tours and those are, you know, posted and made so that the public can show up and attend those as well, because it is still public meeting. I think that'd be probably the biggest challenge. You know, sometimes we've even looked at trying to do a different facility, just give people a different venue and it gets kind of confusing to the public on knowing where we're at and where we're going to be. So I'm not opposed to it. I'm just saying that I think it's could be challenging for us to make sure that we're posting and noticing the public on where this group is going to be. And then doing our, making sure that our recording system is there too, Jeff, is that typically your staff doing that? No, that's actually Longmont media that does that. So it would have to be recorded. That would be part of our requirement. We can definitely take it into consideration. Maybe there's some way we can incorporate that in the future. And. I was going to say we do have an outdoor. Meeting area available here at the parks. It's a parks again, whether has to be relatively decent, but we do have an outdoor canopy and tables. We have the ability to bring a large monitor TV out, outdoors and set that up. But again, I certainly wouldn't recommend it for a early spring. Meeting like April, but certainly. June, July, August easily, you know, we can accommodate that out, out of doors with monitors and, you know, the recording and all those details. Thanks. I noticed that you have a comment and then Jeff. Yeah, I'm okay with the in room like we were doing before. That is ideal. To have a discount of meeting. Did you have another comment? I'm not a hundred percent sure how I feel, but I guess one thought I had was why don't we wait till see what the city council does in terms of hybrid so that whatever we pick, if someone needs flexibility for travel or safety or otherwise. We know if that's even a choice. I mean, I'm open. I'm open to coming back in April. Also, I guess I just wanted to throw it out there. It'd be nice to know that if for some reason, one of us was traveling or there's an outbreak that we could. Some people meet and some people couldn't meet. So I'm willing to come back also. Nicholas, any thoughts? I'll just say exactly what Jeff just said. I'm kind of on the same page there. Right. I'm open to coming back. But we'd like to have the flexibility and know that we can. This is a dynamic thing, right? And that if things shift again in June, we're ready to go back to a remote of you. And Dan open. I don't think I've heard from you yet. I prefer a in-person meeting. I don't care which of the two rooms. They were discussed at the South sunset facility, but I'm okay with either of those. And even though I'm far away right now and I may not be able to hang on this meeting too long, I would prefer it in person. Even if that means no hybrid. I think the meeting goes smoother and quicker and gets more productive for all together. Right. Can we just, do we have an option of just making a decision to. Meet in person in April and then. We can revisit it at that time and see if we learn anything more about hybrid for the future. Does that work or no? I'm waiting. I think you addressed Jeff. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah, I did. I didn't know if that was for the board or. Yeah. I just wondered if we can decide today to meet in person in April and then. Just wait kind of wait and see what we find out to make a decision about all of future meeting. Yes. Absolutely. Okay. Well, I would propose then that we. Meet in April and we can try meeting in the bigger state. Just to see how it goes for that. Okay. I'm saying that looking at you guys. We can make, we can make sure that's okay. We definitely can work to make that happen. Okay. Can we have the lights on David or do we have to meet in the dark? Like, you know, it's weird. If I turn my light on, I get a halo over my head, which is just a weird feeling. Okay. Is that something we need to vote on? Or can we just agree? I think we can just agree. I don't think we need a motion. Okay. Great. Well, let's plan to meet. April. Our April meeting will be in person at the sunset office. I mean, you know, the world is what it is. So barring unforeseen circumstances that will be our plan. Okay. Thank you. Great. Okay. I think that's the end of our new business items. So we can go now to old business. So, and the first one is just an update on our discussion about future recreation facilities. And last time we had passed the. Recommendation for the council. So I don't know, Jeff or David, which one of you wants to. I trust that. I can speak. I can talk about that. Okay. Okay. So we're going to find out how to that we do that. And that will be presented. In the council's packet at their next meeting, which is. I believe a week from tomorrow. We're not mean to the 29th. It'll be on the 29th. And then the other thing is we. Were you going to say something, Dan? No, I'm not going to say anything. I'm not going to say anything. I just wanted to make a motion that you all made at the February meeting about. Rec center being a. Priority and encourage council to. To. Work on that. So do we expect feedback? Or can we continue on? Or. We will, we will continue on. Our next step is to. We're going to do an appropriated. Which. That should be at the, the first opportunity that we have to do an appropriation, which I believe is at, will be at the April 12th meeting. And we have a funding source from the. Recreation impact fee. That is much like the. Park impact fee. That is a little bit more than that. And we're going to, we're going to be starting to do that. I think there's a lot of barriers in that right now. And we've received general approval to use that. We just need to get counsel to approve. That funding. And our. Challenge so far is getting. Trying to come up with what the price tag is for that. We've reached out to. Our consultant that we worked with on the. So we're going to reach out to Barker Ranker who did the design of the Longmont Recreation Center to see if they can give us a ballpark of what we'll need to do that study. And is this just when you say study, is that a feasibility study or is this like a public the public outreach to kind of get the new sense of what the public has an appetite for which study are you referring to? It would be a feasibility study which would include public process both with the general public and with stakeholders. So we're redoing the whole start from the beginning kind of thing then. Yeah I believe we will need to do that. Okay got you. Wow okay thanks. When do you, how soon do you think that could start and would you seek initial feedback into sort of what is looked at in the feasibility study? There'd be sort of some early stage input. Absolutely we will have to go to an RFP to hire a consultant and we can present that report in the scope of services to the board to get feedback. I believe that a couple of the board members could actually be on the review panel. I don't know that that you all would have voting rights but you could certainly give input to the staff as we're looking to choose that company to do that work if that's something you're interested in. Great and when would that start if it's approved if that whole process? It would probably start sometime in late May once we get through the appropriations and and then get start getting work on on the RFP. Purchasing right now is telling us that their work is like three weeks out from once you decide what what you want to do. Great. Councilman Waters what do you suspect the council might do when they get our. Well I don't you know we get we get recommendations for additional appropriations periodically you know maybe somebody has a question about them. I've asked questions from time to time but generally it's a no-brainer right it's carry over money it's funded because of a fund like the water fund or the park fund etc so the money's there it's not a matter of trying to cut something else out in order to do this. So that I don't think that's going to be an issue I just I as I'm sitting I'm wondering Jeff and David have you had any opportunity to have input? I know Rigo's working on a customer satisfaction survey right and I know he's asked we've he's asked us if if we have input then I had drafted some notes I have not followed up with Rigo because I hadn't talked to either of you fellas about a question or questions that we if there would be a section that kind of looking to the future not just to the past in terms of services of what the community might want to see and what they would be willing to support in terms of parks and recreation in terms of open space in terms of performing arts and conference centers in terms of library etc right just to get a feel of kind of where where those might sit as as priorities for the community. We've made that suggestion we haven't heard a lot the last I heard back was the survey was too long already so it might be really good if if you could make that suggestion. I will make it tomorrow morning. I would say the same thing we have actually reached out to Rigo we sent some some questions in that we thought would help we tried to umbrella umbrella them under some other topics because we were told the same thing that they were really looking to cut the number of questions as opposed to adding to the number of questions. Well that's what we can do is is push asking push yeah so I'll follow up tomorrow. Thank you. Are there questions about this? Thanks for the update Jeff. It's good to have progress. Any other questions on this topic? So the next topic is a potential retreat so we talked about this a little bit at the last meeting and just as a refresher the idea would be for us to potentially get together in a less formal setting than a meeting kind of like a study session for council where we have maybe two or three topics that we just want to learn more about and we have time to talk about that it would still I mean my understanding that it would still be posted and still be a public meeting since we're still an official meeting but we would not have to operate in a formal manner. So if folks are still interested in that it would be good to hear sort of yes or no roughly on the time frame and if there's any key topics you'd like to consider. Well it's not my retreat but but I did make a notice I heard because I think this would be relevant potentially to a retreat. I heard the comment earlier about the report card and I know that's been discussed and it would be a report card I assume Jeff and David on kind of where we are relative what I heard relative to the master plan. So it would be really helpful in that report card at least for me to know of the projects that are on which we've made no progress what's the scale of those projects and what it would take to move them forward because I'm I'm just speculating that if you're absolutely candid in your in your response to that question staffing would be a response in every case. So I do think page for whatever it's worth I think it would be really useful as I think about where we're headed with priorities for Parks and Rec and I think about the budgeting process and the kind of input I'd like to take to that. It'd be useful to know kind of what what are your priorities with respect to the unaddressed opportunities or projects in the master plan what it would take to move those what those priorities might be from your perspective and then what will be required in the 2023 budget to make that happen because without that when we get into those discussions there's not my I don't have much to say and I'd like to have something to say that that is reflects what your priorities on what the needs of Jeff and David are because I know last year we added 31 FTEs I don't think we added any of them to parks recreation open space and and natural resources so correct me if I'm wrong on that David and Jeff. So really appreciate that and I think this is a great opportunity one of the things that I think we'll hear a little bit later as we get updates from staff the chair did ask some questions of staff find out basically the same thing I think we were prepared to give a little bit of high level of conversation to that the piece that I would just like to share here is that is probably some of you know Dale Radamaker our deputy city manager today was have his farewell going away after work get together so we we have some changes in the organization so we definitely have some new leadership we want to wrap into this conversation as well but I think you guys have set the stage for us to really talk about what we need if we want to try to have different objectives as far as timing and things push through if it is we want to get X number of parts done how do we reverse engineer that and what kind of staffing do we need to meet those those agendas and I think we're ready to talk about a little bit I also make sure that I am keeping whatever new leadership I have in place involved in that conversation to go for so there's a little bit of timing piece for me on that because I do think everyone's going to say we always need more staff within the city there's a lot of people here trying to a lot of things and pushing through and having to readjust and as we readjust over here that means a project may not get done it gets pushed out a few more years and I think the community is kind of waiting for those projects that have been seen to get done and I think for us to be accountable I think the questions you're asking are really appropriate the other piece I would actually tell you though is that we did and then in Pages question as far as some of the safety issues we did get two new FTA FTE Rangers to help with the patrol and maintenance of our park screenways and open spaces before we had arrangers that were up at Button Rock in a union and knowing that we have 100 miles of trail and 42 parks we just did not have the resources there so fortunately Council did give us those two additional ranger positions but as far as pushing projects through there's no additional resources there stay corrected on that one I just want to make sure that I yeah I wasn't taking advantage of the fact we did the benefit of council approving some positions Hey I'm just telling you as your liaison I personally as one council member who would appreciate knowing what the priorities are from this board especially as they relate to things that are in the master plan right and and what your thoughts are on what will be required in 2023 to to move those priorities so I think that's what you advise us on and I'd like to hear that and if the retreat is what you need to do to get there that's that's up to you but I'm just telling you that'd be real helpful Thanks Jeff yeah go ahead yeah so Tim you were correct about recreation we did not we haven't gotten new stuff and there you go quite a few years and are in our second year of having a $1.1 million budget cut on on top of that because of COVID and you know things are looking better and I'm hoping that we get at least part of that back in 2023 I want to tie into something that David talked about not only is this week's Dale Radamaker's last day but Karen Roni who is the department the director of the department of community services is also retiring this month at on the 31st which will probably result in some different leadership for us as well and so we're we're living in a world of kind of unknowns right now but we I will have some things to respond to Paige's questions later on as well thanks both of you are there other any other topics folks would be interested in learning more about yeah we've talked quite a bit about the project development process capital improvement projects you know budgeting just sort of learning and understanding better how that works the timing that would be another thing that we could dig into we could also talk more about sort of the out-year planning in terms of open space acquisitions and connectivity we've talked a lot about you know kind of trail connectivity in the past and just having some time to those of you who haven't met in the in our regular meeting room haven't zoomed around with Steve on the on the board where he kind of takes the google map and zooms around and shows us all the trails and future trails but that can be pretty interesting and helpful too and if it doesn't feel timely to do a retreat yet that's fine too but I thought might be good to get something on the calendar if we want to it's kind of silent but I just like to say that I think staff is more than willing and I think we'd really appreciate opportunity to have those conversations with this board I really appreciate the interest that they're having the questions are being asked and I think to have that opportunity I think would be something that staff would be really appreciate the opportunity. Nicholas did you have a comment? I wanted to break the silence a little bit because it seems like there is crickets a little bit but I'm generally supportive of the idea I certainly like the idea of doing something like this I feel like I'm struggling a little bit with like what the content should be though and what I would recommend where to go on this where my mind goes is we're thinking about what topic we want to focus on maybe it should be more like what what people we want to focus on like what resources you want to focus on maybe it's something like like a day in the life of this department I don't know maybe that's another way to think about this just an idea for another and I'm happy to work with I mean if we can please get some ideas I'm happy to work with Jeff and David and maybe we can put something together and bring it back to all of you so if there's any like any topics you're interested in just let me know and we can put them on the list and think about it. If it's going to if it's going to be tied to the budget we'll need to have that conversation sooner than later because it will be into the budget in in May and that our opportunity to do any kind of requests will go away at the end of May. Yes Ellen Bogan did you have something before I go to Dan? I just wanted to clarify what we're talking about in terms of timing and time commitment why aren't we talking about doing this because that's always a variable or I guess we haven't talked about it but that would impact my ability and interest to participate in such a thing. Yeah I mean you know in terms of time frame we could come speak at the side I mean I've been in retreats that are anywhere from like you know a couple hours kind of open discussion to a full day and I'm guessing we wouldn't be able to take a full day so probably you know probably around a couple hours and then the time frame in terms of when it depends I mean I think if we if we wanted to talk about the sort of master planning we could also do that in a meeting if we feel like that I'm sensitive and we want to put it on a future agenda in terms of the report card for the master plan and I did pose some questions some related questions to Jeff and David based on feedback I heard from previous board conversations and so that will get us a little bit started today actually probably Dan any thoughts? I similar to Jeff I was curious timing wise are we thinking about a second I guess I have a funny echo are we talking about a second April meeting or a second March meeting or is this the instead of the April second Monday meeting I mean I'm amenable to any of those but as Councilman Waters or Jeff said sooner is better so we need to get cracking here I mean I guess I would propose you know two weeks from tonight or six weeks from tonight or four weeks from tonight whatever I mean I'm you know do we have enough I don't know what's on the thought agenda for next month from tonight you know second weekend then second Monday in April is or you know one of the next three two-week intervals seems like it needs to happen or it's too late to worry about well it would be if we want if we're doing it to impact the budget right it wouldn't be if we just have stuff we want to learn about oh okay thank you time sensitive some and some is not um Jeff do you happen to have what we have on the agenda for next meeting handy I'm looking right now I know CIPs are on there we also have open space and greenway considerations discuss the field trip that that's the three primary and then you know the ongoing future recreation facility conversation okay my thought we'd do it on a second night and keep our normal board meeting yeah I think that's what we would have to do so I don't necessarily want to take too much more time on this you've given some ideas maybe Jeff and David why don't we talk about maybe putting a little proposal together and bring it back to the board so there's something a little more concrete that people can weigh in on right that works that works yep and if anyone has any thoughts in the meantime please feel free to share them okay that is the end of our new and old business so we can discuss items from the packet updates does anyone have any questions from the update that were provided in the packet so the memo from David on parks and recreation or parks and open space and then the memo from Jeff on recreation looks like we lost Dan he said he might have to leave early he's with family tonight okay any questions from either if the memo I have a question this is Erin so yeah go ahead number eight on the David bell memo is very assisting planning and development with site plan review and natural resources for Erwin Thomas gravel mining permit and Costco and the river management doesn't really give us any details like what are they thinking about site plan and I'd really like to know more about that um you know I thought Erwin Thomas gravel mining permit was out of it and that Costco got that parcel I don't know so I'm odd I'm trying to scroll through does it say up in there that Dan Wilford was one that kind of can't put that update in there it does it does the ecosystem management I could do it I think Dan's on so he's he could jump in that would help but I'm happy to cover it yeah I'm happy to you know share with you Erwin Thomas gravel mining operation is probably a six or seven year operation they're starting on the south side of Kenpratt Boulevard 119 but if they move into I believe itself uh five and six those are on the north end of could you say what you when they we say when they move into the cells you just kind of mentioned what that kind of looks like they divide the property up into mining areas which they call cells and they will tackle those one at a time they kind of broken it up like Dan said south and north but we have several cells to be gravel mining out of and then moving to the next one correct and so they're starting at the Costco site and moving to the east once they're finished with that which will likely be at least two to three years then they will move to the north of of Kenpratt Boulevard which is currently city open space they have a current recreation or recreation I'm so focused on Jeff reasoner that I you know that's the way it is they have a current reclamation plan that shows existing reclamation of open water and wetlands staff between myself and David and Ken Houston we have a number of other recommendations we would like to see we're not really convinced that we need any more open water that we have to augment with water rights we would really like to see the extension of the left hand creek corridor go through there so we will be negotiating with aggregate industries to make some modifications to the reclamation plan so that's the intent we're dealing with aggregate industries probably on at least three properties at this point in time and dealing with some of the gravel mining operations that are going to take place on Erwin Thomas south the tall property you've probably heard us speak of that as well as the golden farms parcel on the north side of Kenpratt Boulevard we could certainly do as we get closer to this and you know start to negotiate with aggregate I'm certain David and I would be happy to bring some of these concepts to you but we really believe it would be very beneficial to the city to have the left hand creek corridor go through the golden farms property and daylight into the same frame further to the east than it currently does so on that you said that they're going to be mining we're on the same car Costco parcel are they going to mine before Costco goes in I don't understand that that's there may they won't be mining the Costco parcel but they're immediately to the east of Costco they will be gravel mining so basically what has happened is through the city and Diamond G the city of Longmont has purchased that property from Diamond G and in turn turn that land conveyed that land over to Costco the Diamond G property is what is currently being gravel mined by aggregate industries to the east of Costco so they will march I believe they have three or four cells that they will move to the east in a process which will take again I believe somewhere in the vicinity of two to three years before they jump to the north side of State Highway 119 Ken Pratt Boulevard onto city open space no chance you want to ask something I'm sorry Aaron Aaron what was your question no chance of getting that jump north stopped so on that jump north I think you mean the mining north of 119 yes so one thing is well when the when the city purchased that property we were not able to purchase the mining rights so we knew if you look at Golden Ponds and Pelopons a lot of times when we get those opportunities to purchase those properties they maintain those mining rights and then we work with the Reclamation companies to get something back that again is not what it looks like today is a hayfield but hopefully through working with the Reclamation companies we can get something that is still a value to our community and as Dan mentioned that we don't want any more open water I think as he said you we don't like the augmentation piece but if you think about when those ponds to sit there that's just water that evaporates and we have to maintain that within our systems we have to find additional water for that evaporation we have a lot more fishing opportunities and open water than Colorado ever had because of mining so Dan's talking about is really trying to do sense much more of a riparian upland where left hand creek would come through that old mine what would we we claim allow a left hand creek to meander to provide some more natural flood capacity and make something that just has a much more natural feel for the way that the same brain creek and left hand creek have been channelized but give that that creek in that system more room to move so something that is not typical I think when mining companies like to leave they think everyone just wants a gravel pond left over so people can fish we would love to see much more diverse habitat than just open water so I think Dan has some really good ideas on how we can try to make this something that probably is a better ecological piece and even the hayfield that sits there right now. Thank you any other questions on items from the Nemo if not we can go to items from staff yeah Dan Wilkford. Yeah I just want to reach out and thank Jeff and Ben Wagner for their help and assistance with the Chick Clark fishing education program this year this is probably our 20th year of doing the Chick Clark program and with the assistance of the recreation staff we modified the program this year a little bit because of COVID and what we did we took 110 110 110 rods and reels and made those available to the public to sign up for the youth of our community through Jeff's staff and the assistance of Ben they were able to put that registration up and those rods and reels were signed off and and taken within three hours of being up so what we've done is we stocked about 500 fish and Isaac Walton this past week we will stock another 1,000 on Wednesday with the 19th being the first day of spring break with a number of press releases and that kind of thing we will be putting that out to the community just reminding the kids of the community that this is an outdoor recreation opportunity made available to them year-round but like we've all said and and numerous of you know that have been fishermen there's nothing like fun and excitement of fishing and catching fish so we will be stocking over 2,500 fish in the next couple weeks and providing this recreation opportunity to the community so I just wanted to again thank Ben and Jeff and Sue Ellen for their help and assistance in this program that's great sounds like a great outcome any other items from staff yes David Jeff um page I don't know how you want to address the questions you have brought to staff I know that's something you during your update if you would like to read that into the record for them and I could Jeff and I can respond to that or we'll we'll handle that however you like us to yeah I was just going to bring that up during items from board perfect okay so I will go ahead and share so I had heard over various conversations a few different questions from board member it's related to capacity and project workload and you know what would it take to be able to address the backlog we've had sort of these kind of lingering questions and so I sent those and I can just do want me to just read it and then so that it can be captured in the notes that would work for me I could kind of fit my answers into the I think that helps us the back problem that if you were mind doing that I appreciate it yeah so the questions I said is that members of PREV have an interest in better understanding the capacity that would be required to one more quickly address the backlog of approved capital improvement projects and to ensure that natural resource sustainability and public safety are effectively addressed at our existing recreation and open space locations and then there was a related question that was we'd also be interested in understanding what unmet needs you see in your areas of responsibility based on feedback you receive from the public and your staff so and obviously those are long questions so wouldn't necessarily expect full details but just kind of wanted to set the stage and if you recall there was also a potential item that we approved in the agenda to kind of in the calendar that we approved last time to talk about kind of staffing and capacity needs related to the areas of interest for the board so I will yeah go ahead yeah I was gonna say Jeff do you mind if I start this and no it works okay I appreciate that and I would like to say that I do appreciate these questions coming to us I think it's something that as we continue to come to PREV and bring CIP and you look at that list of projects and how we move through those or how we don't move through those sometimes I'm gonna start with something that probably everyone in this group has heard about for way too long now but if you've gone out behind left hand brewery on the green way the city is still involved in flood recovery so if you talk about black swan events back to back you know we really hate saying that but we still have staff fully engaged and flood recovery projects that really take away from the master plan projects that were put out there in 2014 then you put the COVID piece on it and Jeff said you know we have budget dollars pulled away and asked to kind of hold back on doing things so we could take those dollars maybe reappropriate those those dollars to areas where the city wasn't quite sure the budget was going to look like and now with supply chain issues every project manager I have is looking at you know at least double on transportation cost and fees as supplies are coming in if they can actually get it so I really feel like I'm giving some excuses here to start with but the hard part is as I start doing what I've been trying to plan to answer this question is that how do you reverse engineer of this how long did it take actually build the park how long does it take you to the RFP process how long did it work with the consultants how long does the public process piece and we've been really trying to work through that since you've given us these these questions here with that said having Steve and Kathy who y'all know and Danielle Levine who is got about a third of her dollars coming from the general fund right now with funded projects we feel that probably takes about a year and a half to two years to go from the project identified to doing the RFP to putting the RFP on the street to letting staff evaluate that project that that RFP project bringing the design on doing the design bringing the public in to be part of that that process taking the final design to a consultant for the the construction that project following through with construction that looks like it's about a year and a half to two is if we don't have any of these others like I say these very unique situations come up so that being said we right now in funded projects we have 18 funded projects some of those are as the council councilmember waters mentioned some of those are smaller pedestrian bridges that have to go in but of those three are significant greenway projects phase 13 going from golden ponds out to airport road going out to the state park six of those are new projects things like nino gallo and and clover meadow and box meadow so we have six of those projects and then nine of those smaller projects so if you look at those funded projects right now that are assigned to someone there are 18 of those and knowing that our average to get something done is about a year and a half on the good side with supply chain working after that we have another 11 projects that are funded that are on no one's work plan right now we have 34 projects that are really within the city that impact the park if that's a ice per billion out there they're really my staff is assigned to maybe engineering's doing it or is a sewer project going through a park my staff becomes a subject matter expert as we look at how that's going to impact the park we have 34 of those out there and then we looked at all the stuff the adam dairy which the city council has approved is by that property and we know we're getting a master plan for that we have plumb LLC that dan talked about the contribution that the state parks would give us for a fishing as fun grant we have 17 that are out there that we know we could probably go to and start doing other projects through goko and other stuff so we have a long list of projects I think we would love to be able to put out there but to put that in a realty timeline is something that we just really haven't done yet and what we'd like to do is bring this work product back as we do cip next time or through your retreat process and really have us take a hard look at this and say what can we do with the staff we have and then what we want to multiply that by factor of x would it take in staffing to do that if that seems like if that's what you're really looking for is how we try to balance product output and the amount of staff we'd need pager you're you're muted all right double muted and is that is that what you're hoping for is to kind of see that project listen I just kind of I mean this does no good right now this would like I mean this is the kind that that list would give you you could look at it you would see what's on there we say that this is going to take us x amount of time and then if there's a distraction if we need to work on something else it slows it down and we know it takes x amount of staff time to do that and then we can start it again reverse entering these these priorities for proud and for staff and say if we want to do it at a accelerated rate here's the ways we think we could achieve that do you think that we could have that conversation at a meeting or do you think it would be hard I mean would it be better to be able to work through it with more open time you know if we um look at agendas and look at it cip I think we can start that I I would get I'm I was trying to do a little of this math and how many these things actually come up because Steve and Kathy and Dan and others you know really kind of gave me a bunch of kind of raw data here um and I was looking at some of those numbers so I missed as far as the retreat time if we can time that it might be a good time but we can definitely at the cip meeting which is next month I believe would have Steve and Kathy me they would have this list we really could give I think a good overview which then if you want to really dive into it may be the time for the the retreat to have that deeper conversation but I think we do a good job um really preparing this group to have that conversation at a meeting great Jeff did you want to add your thoughts and then we can just open it up if there's any other questions yep uh you know David talks about the cip projects and you know recreation rents out everything that his staff does and we are in a time where we haven't added really any athletic fields to the city system in quite some time and we have user groups that are really interested in expanding our capacity to do more soccer and football and baseball and really cricket would be in that same situation so anything that could be done to get those parks expanded to include those would would be great um as far as specific to recreation and budget one of our main priorities would be to get the 1.1 million reinstated back into our budget in in 2023 and then probably even a more urgent issue that we have right now is trying to address temp wages you know we did a study in the city and not only comparing other municipal recreation but also some of the private sector and the average that people are paying is 1550 right now and all of our lifeguards start out at $13 an hour um I was in a meeting with the city manager today and I was explaining to him that recreation needs 74 more aquatic staff yet this year for us to open sunset pool as well as to be able to keep centennial and the rec center open and we we really need to do something to reevaluate the temp wages and get some additional funding there we're also considering doing a bonus program where if a staff person in aquatics will commit to working the entire summer that we give them some type of bonus if they make their commitment for the future we're looking at trying to take some of our temp wages and moving pool managers and some of our front desk staff from temp to more of a regular or regular is what full-time people are called within the city to be able to have some consistency and some retention that we really don't have right now um and then the final thing is trying to hire a therapeutic coordinator that could help us with all of our scope and and IDD programs that we do we we do quite a few things but feel like our community there's a lot more demand out there we feel like the programs with that we do offer are done well and would like to see the opportunity to expand those offerings right that's helpful any yeah just real quick as jeff did mention the staffing piece and it's one of the things i think herald and dale had made a commitment that at least that we're trying to do and council member waters may recognize this too and we do a council approves a project like a new park in you know gallo and it takes a year and a half two years to get that done and then there's a warranty period after that so we'll be coming back two and a half years later and say we've added x number of acres x number of resources x number mowing x number of trails and we need new staff now that used to go into the general fund request with every other request out there herald has made a commitment that we can try to remind council when this comes in that this will be a level one request that it really is the highest over request that if we made a commitment to build apart put these assets in place we need to have the staff and the budget to maintain that new asset so that's a positive piece that we're moving moving forward with the staffing on our end so i i don't have quite the same need jeff does there but for me it really is that staffing piece of the project manager is moving it forward but staffing is definitely a challenge i know jeff is really facing it um continue to work with him out of union especially on that what would it take jeff to have the 1.1 million re-instated i believe that if we have a better year which we already are having that i i think is COVID hopefully disappears and stays away that people start using our facilities and programs more i think that would help that to to happen so i do i mean if there are there any questions from council members about any of this these initial numbers tonight i do want to make sure that we can have this discussion when we have ideally like our whole our whole board so when dan and scott are also present um so we can follow up more either at the next meeting or at an interim retreat hey jeff were you asking about you asking about council members or no i was asking about the board okay i just misspoke i said council and i meant board david did you want to add something yeah and i'm sorry just just to to um make sure because you mentioned scott is not here tonight and scott has sent some very similar questions about um our plans and things that he's heard about over the years of being along my resident where those go so i i think these questions that you're asking here um are very appropriate and ones that i think you know um first out to be able to be held accountable and that may ask these questions i think we it's time to do that okay councilman waters are there since you're there are there any other related questions you think we should address when we follow back up on this no i think you're spot on i you know i i've talked i mean i've talked with jeff and david about these issues and um i just want to make certain you know just as i run kind of a parallel path to to where you're headed that when by the time we get into budget discussions i'm well informed uh to support the kind of priorities that your recommendations and what i know their needs are um so and it's helpful to hear this conversation just in terms of i think as i think about my own preparation so great okay well i think that's a good start and i appreciate you guys bringing preparing some information to share and responsive of questions and hopefully we can follow up on that conversation are there any other items from board members any other questions for erin sitting outside i hope you're not freezing okay um if there's nothing else i think we are ready to adjourn they have a motion to adjourn the meeting you know i initiate the motion to adjourn meeting today okay great my second great all those in favor hi thanks everyone the meeting is adjourned and we'll look forward to seeing you in person at the next one thanks everyone appreciate your time thank you thank you