 Okay, welcome back. We'll do one more example before we go to the next topic. Okay, one more example. Okay, one example. Oh, what a life. The job is difficult enough. And on top of that, I have to work with that lazy good for nothing fool. Oh, what a life. The job is difficult enough. And on top of that, I have to work with that lazy good for nothing fool. Okay, how would you respond? Come on, online counselors want to hear from everybody at least once. Shiv Kumar, Chira, Samuel, Yerusha. I haven't heard any of you all. Okay, yeah. Yeah, Francis. You're going through a lot of burdens and heaviness regarding your work. And I was like, very good. Good job. You're going through a lot of heaviness with regard to your job. I know you're really frustrated doing the job. Also, you're not enjoying and on top of it, you have to deal with people. It's incredibly challenging for you to manage the job and this person you're working with. Nikhil, try, try, come on. Unless you try, you know, if Francis said he couldn't, but then he said such a good one, come on, try. Same thing like how they say it. I would like to say also like you suffering from things like this must challenge things from life. I know all corporate jobs nowadays are stressful. Okay, good. It must be really frustrating for you to work with someone who's not helpful to you in any way. Very good. Okay, wonderful. Now, please keep this lesson in mind. Okay, because generally what I see is when we get into the skills, all of this gets forgotten and we've gone back into, you know, you know, do you want to change your job? Or, you know, the advice, yeah, maybe you should complain about this good for nothing fool. So keep this in mind as we're going forward. Very good. Okay. All right. So let's move to the next one. Okay, we're going to be talking about a model in counseling. Right now, this does not know why, why, why is it important for us to understand about a model is for us to know what is the idea that we use to counsel people. All right. Okay. And so this is the model. What we looked at frame of reference is the act of being a counselor. How do you, how are you being a counselor? But this is a model, a general framework that you need to have. Okay, so it's a counseling model. And this is called as an A, B, C, D, E model. So each of those letters stand for a certain thing. Now, this model is based on a specific idea on if you the notes, your notes have a diagram, right? Sorry. She raised her hand. Yes, Nina. Nina. Okay, Nina, put, you could put your question up. I don't know if that's my mistake. Do put your question up on the chat. Okay. Okay. All right. So, yeah, so this is based on a, this A, B, C, D, E, it is it, each of this, it's an acronym for something for, for different things, which we will look into and we will discuss. But this model is based on this specific framework in your notes, you see a diagram, right? And you see that there are three specific areas, thoughts, feelings and behavior. So what it's, what it's telling you, this model is based on this cognitive with cognitive means thinking, right? It's based on this understanding that what you, how you think will determine how you feel and how you feel will determine how you will act. So all of these, your thoughts, your feelings and your behavior actually work hand in hand. Okay. So specifically what it's saying is your thoughts will determine your feelings and your feelings will determine your behavior. So I'll give you an example. Okay. Very simple example. Suppose it's very sunny outside. Okay. It's a situation that is outside. Now, one person thinks of a sunny day as a very, so I may think of a sunny day as a very, it's, it's very sweaty. It's very, it's hot. I don't like it. And it reminds me of school when I had to stand out in the field. These are my thoughts, correct? Right? Now these thoughts will determine what my feeling, how I feel about it. So what will I feel? I'll probably feel irritated, annoyed, right? And that will determine my behavior. So which means I won't go out in the sun at all. Okay. And this behavior will reinforce those thoughts that it's not nice. It's bad. It's, you know, it reminds me of school. I don't like hot sunny days. So you see that? Now, in reverse, maybe one of you thinks of sunny days as, you know, it's so bright, it's so nice, it brings joy, right? It's, it makes me feel that everything around is so beautiful. That's the thought maybe someone else has. What is the feeling? A sense of happiness, sense of excitement. And what is the behavior? You will, you will go, you will enjoy those days. You may go shop or you may do, you go out with your friends, whatever, right? And so it reinforces that. You see that? So this model is based on that, that however we think is the way that we will feel and the way that we will behave. Let's take a more serious example, maybe when sickness comes. So when you think of sickness is, okay, this is the end of the world. From this I'm going to go, you know, I, from having a cold, I will get a flu from having a flu. I will get COVID from COVID. I will go to the hospital from the hospital. I will die. After that, my wife and children will be left alone. They will go to jail. You see how the thoughts have gone? Not jail, sorry. They will, they will be abandoned, whatever, right? And so what are you going to feel? Fear, right? And what would your behavior be? Yeah. So you would probably be taking hundreds of medicine, going to 25 doctors, all of that, right? Let's say the other way you get, you haven't, okay, this is a, this is a small thing. I'll just pray over it and I will be okay. Right? But tomorrow by tomorrow I'll be fine. So what's your feeling? You're normal about it. You're neutral. And your behavior is, you go about your day. So do you see that this, the way that we think will affect our feeling, it will affect our behavior. Do you agree? Okay. So this model is based on that understanding that our thoughts are the ones that really determine our behavior. So situations can happen. But the way we think about it really, really matters. Okay. So let's look into this a little bit more into the model. Okay. It's called the A, B, C, D, E model. So the first one, the A stands for any kind of an activating event. An activating event is either a problem or a situation or a difficulty or even any normal event. Okay. Activating event is like a situation. It activates, it's an event that's going to activate something. You got that? All right. So the activating event can be anything. Like I said, you've probably fallen sick or it may be a crisis in your relationship. It may be something like a change in your work. It may be some presentation you may need to do, anything. It can be absolutely anything. Even an activating event, it can also be, we are all sitting in class. Okay. Or you're called to do a presentation or I have to speak on the mic. That's an activity. Any situation or event can be an activating event. Got that? Okay. Then comes B. B is what we call as the belief system. The belief system is that which is what you believe about the event or the situation or the adversity or the circumstance. What is it that you believe? For example, I said, no, the activating event is you sitting in this class and you have a belief, oh, this class is extremely boring. That's the belief. Right? Or you're falling sick. Every sickness will land in death. That's a belief. Right? Or maybe the activating event is somebody shouted at you in class. Probably your teacher shouted at you in class. Your belief is if I'm shouted at that means I'm good for nothing. It's a belief. Got that? And where does this belief come from? Our experiences. Usually our experiences or it's learned. Someone has told us something. Right? Or you're in the bus. You're in the BTS bus. Your belief is you will get robbed. Whenever you go on the bus, you will get robbed. That's a belief. What happened, Francis? Bangalore Transport Service. Oh, you're thinking about Korean BTS, no, I'm not talking about that. Okay, so the belief about the adversity. So, and this is very, very different for everyone. Right? And unless and until we begin to understand what is the belief system, we don't know the rest. So it's a model for us to help to understand what is the belief of people in different kind of situations. Got that? B is a belief system. C is the consequent, the emotional consequence. So now this, the C is when whatever your belief is, it will produce a certain emotion if you continue to practice it repeatedly. Right? For example, I'm going to say every time I get into the bus, I'm going to get robbed. So what is the emotional consequence to that? Maybe fear. So I just have to think about getting into a bus and fear will come up. Right? Or when I'm going to do a press, someone shouts at me, the belief is that maybe I'm good for nothing. So the emotional consequences, maybe sadness, or a sense of disappointment, or a sense of helplessness. So the belief can turn into an emotional, what do you say, emotional consequence. There will be a consequence emotionally that happens. That is C, the irrational thoughts, whatever the belief system. So beliefs are equivalent to thoughts. Your thoughts come because of certain beliefs. So because of those irrational beliefs, there are, it produces a consequence, which is your emotional consequence. Okay? Is that clear? Clear up till now? Yeah? Okay. Now what does this model say? This model, if you look at, again, if you look at your book, right, that is that it says the activating event will bring about a belief system and it brings about a consequent event. So I'd like you to understand that the event is not what actually brings about the emotion. It's not getting into the bus that will make you fearful. It is what you, what you believe about it that makes it fearful. Got it? It's not the sickness that makes you fearful, but what you feel about it that makes you fearful. But after a point of time, that you lose that connection and that feeling comes in a split second, because it's happened repeatedly over time that you're saying, no, every time I see the bus, I feel scared. Why? Maybe you haven't thought about it, but then it's, it's important to understand what the belief system is about that. Got it? All right? Because as you repeatedly go through that same situation, that thought does not become very prominent. It's irrational, but it kind of gets suppressed somewhere. It's only when you really converse and talk about it, you say, no, I'm actually scared because I got robbed 10 years ago. And I'm afraid every time I go there, I get robbed. So that's the belief system. But you may not catch it immediately because it has become such a, such a, such a pattern that the thoughts are not expressed as much, but you immediately say, no, I just feel, feel afraid when I see that BTS bus. So I, you know, I feel, I fall sick. So in any situation, you can see this, this happens. Okay. Now, what does the model say? The model now usually we all operate just with this ABC. We keep operating in this ABC. But the model, the counseling model is you have to go, the next part of that model is D, which is you're disputing the belief. So what are you doing? You're actually helping your counseling to replace whatever is irrational with something that is rational with whatever is fearful with something that is a faith. So you are helping them dispute that belief. Okay. So what you're doing is you're challenging those belief systems. That's what you do in counseling. You are actually challenging certain belief systems so that they are able to deal with that change that kind of a belief. Because a lot of times when people are going through struggles, it all has to do with the way that they see their struggle. Right. So let me try and think of an example. Let's say someone is coming to you with the, with the financial struggle, they're saying that they don't have money or they don't have anything. Right. So the fee, so why is it important to understand the B part of the belief system? And you can do that only when you keep talking and getting them to talk about their feeling. Right. So they will say, no, I'm very fearful, you know, what I don't have any money. I can't earn anything. Maybe their belief is that, you know, unless and until I have X amount of money, only then can I survive. If I don't have anything other than that, or only if I have a job that is, that is a, that is a white collar job, only then can I, I can, can I survive. Right. So that's become a belief system. Only a job that helps me, the helps others see that I'm in a good office, I'm sitting in a desk, only then can I survive. Right. That becomes a belief system. But at this point of time, they need to change that belief or they need to rework that belief that any job will do. Right. So you may need to dispute, help to dispute that kind of a belief. So when you dispute the belief, what happens? Then you get into E. There are effective new beliefs that replace the irrational ones. There are new beliefs that will replace that. So you replace that irrational thoughts and fears with something that's more calmer with a more reasonable assessment that can actually change the person's feelings and lead them to a more, more, a better behavior. Got that? So when you dispute the belief, what is happening? You're changing that those, it becomes a new approach, an effective new approach in the way that they are seeing their problem or their concerns. Okay. So let me show you an example. Okay. This example is about, okay. So the problem, the activating event here is the son, a son in a house comes home, goes to his room without speaking. Okay. The mother is the issue over here. So now what is the thought that, and what is the belief that the mother has? The belief that he has is my son is rude, is rude. So that's the belief that she has that her son is rude. And so the thought becomes he is ungrateful and discourteous. All right. And so what's the feeling? The feeling is anger. You saw that? So you saw A, you saw B. And because the feeling is anger, what is the consequence action? She's having an argument with her son because what does she believe? He's rude. He's discourteous. He's unaffectionate. So she's a, she's why you can't say hi to me, right? That's what happens. So that's the problem. Now, when you are disputing, what are you doing is you're stopping that original thought and you are questioning yourself. And the question is, am I jumping to conclusions? Is there a possible alternate explanation? Right. So she's saying that maybe he's not rude. Maybe there's something else that's going on. Right? So the belief system has changed. He's not rude. Maybe there's something else that's going on that I don't know. And he doesn't mean to be rude. The belief has changed. He's not, he's not rude. He's going through something that may be a struggle. So what is the consequence? She will actually go to the son's room and actually have a friendly talk with him, maybe asking what happened. Is everything okay? And what is the effective new approaches that is, they're building a relationship, there's confidence, there's trust. Whereas in the earlier consequence, they were both angry, they were withdrawn and that relationship was damaged. Clear? Not clear? Yeah, tell me. So like second consequence, like we are changing the mind. Like to, to counseling, we are changing the mind. Yeah. So how it is like, with the lot of talking or only this question, like suddenly say one thing or a lot of questions is changing. This looks very simple like this. But then in a conversation, maybe I would say, let's say this lady has come to me and she said, you know, my son is very rude and very ungrateful, very discourteous. That's how it is. So then I will first say, okay, it must be really difficult for you to, to, to feel, you know, what do you say, disconnected with your, with your son. So I am looking at the feeling. So she said, yeah, he's been like, he was okay till he was 15 years. Now, since he's 16, 17, he's extremely rude. He's extremely difficult. Right? So, so I'll say, so I may say something like, you did mention that he was rude, right? If, if there was another way that you could see him or think about him, what would that other way be? Right? If there was another way that you were able to see him, you, now you're telling me that you feel that he's really rude. Now, I'm not saying your thinking is bad. I'm not telling her any of this, but I've recognized that probably it's because of her, the way she thinks about her son. So I'm, I'm adding in and saying, if there was another way that you could see your son, what would that be? So she may say, I don't know how to see. I said, how, then I would say, how did you think of him when he was 13 and 14? So, so then she'd say, when he was 13 and 14, he had school, he had tuition, he had this, he had that. So, you know, he must have been going through a lot at that time. Right? So she's told me that she's probably had a different belief about him when he was 13, 14. I'll say, okay, if you were to view him like that right now, how would it be different? So then she may say, yeah, maybe I should ask him why he's probably dealing with so much more. Now he's 21, he's working his, maybe I should talk to him and ask him how he's feeling. So you see, it's through questions that you have got him, got her to reach the part of questioning her belief system. And then I will go back and say, okay, you know, how would you like to do it? What would you like to do it? So I'll get into that action point. Then I will come back and say, okay, maybe the next time that you see your son, how would you like to think about it? To really see whether she's understood that he's still rude or that, you know, there are other ways I can look at it. Got that? Clear? All right. All right. Any questions here? Anybody? No questions? Okay. I think I have one more example just to help. Okay. So this is the problem. The problem, it's a workplace problem. Okay. This person has to give a presentation to the board of directors. All right. So that's the activating event. All right. Got that? Now, what is his belief? His belief is, I must give a good presentation. Otherwise, the outcome will be awful. See that? And what is the emotional consequence? He becomes anxious. He finds it difficult to concentrate. He's not probably sleeping well. All right. And now look at the beliefs. So what you're doing, you're disputing the beliefs. So there are different ways that you can dispute beliefs. So don't worry about the logical, empirical, pragmatic, don't worry about all of that. Okay. But look at the other ways that he can think. So just because I want to give a good presentation, how does it logically follow that I must give a good presentation? Okay. All because I think I should give a good presentation. Why is it that I, that it may happen that it's okay, even if it doesn't happen? Okay. Or where is the evidence that my demand must be granted? So what is the evidence that whatever I think it should come out like that? Or if I don't give a good presentation, will the outcome really be awful? Or because I don't do well, will it really mean that it's going to be difficult? Okay. So these are different ways of disputing the belief. And you see that when you change that belief, there is a new effective approach to the problem, which is, although it's strongly preferable to give a good presentation, it's okay if I don't do it or it's okay if I don't have to. Or there is no evidence that I will get what I demand, even if it is preferable and desirable. Or if I don't give a good presentation, the outcome may be bad, but hardly awful, and it is not the end of the world. Or if I continue holding on to this belief, I will remain very anxious and even more likely to give a presentation. So these are just different ways of how you see that they have begun to change their thinking. Okay. All right. Now, each of you all have an assignment to do. Okay. Which is, which is to, and this is for all the online students and the in-person students, the, the e-learning students also have it. It's not an assignment, but it's something that you all can attempt because it will really help you all to understand your own cells. Okay. So what is the assignment? Is, am I not, the presentation is gone. I'm sorry. Okay. So this is what I'd like you all to do. Okay. This very, the ABCDE model, I want you to take some situation in your life. Okay. Which, think about what you believe about it and what is the, the emotional component and how you can dispute that belief and replace it with a more rational one. Okay. It's a personal exercise. It's a good thing to do because it will help you in a certain area of your life. Okay. So I'll put this up on the, on the stream for all the online and in-person students, but it's something that I want each of you to attempt. It's only if I say you'll, it'll be marked, will you all do it? So it will be marked. Okay. So it is important that you get that done and it's a good learning experience and understanding. Okay. So I'll put that up on the stream. I'll put this and so any one situation you can take and follow through this, through this and it'll be good if you can do it this way through that, you know, it's much easier. You don't have to write it. You can just do it, think about it and how it would be. All right. Yeah. You can use the same template. You can use the same template. Okay. All right. Now, yeah. Yeah, tell me. Oh, Jack is asked a question. Jack came up. Yeah, Jack in. So we should work as a, no, no, no, no. No, Jack in. This is just, this is a personal, you're using this model personally, this A, B, C, D, E model. You look for an event in your own life that has probably bought about a negative emotional consequence. Okay. It can be anything. And look back at what the belief is. Dispute it and see how you have a different effective approach in dealing with your problem. Okay. It's a personal exercise. It's not with a, yeah, it's from your own personal life. Right. Okay. So if I, let me quickly give you maybe one more example so that you understand. Any example anybody can think of? Okay. So maybe, okay. The event is maybe at work, I haven't got a promotion. Okay. I haven't got a promotion. And my belief is that maybe my belief is, okay, I'm struggling because this is not a, this is not an example for me. Yeah. Okay. So if it's, so the belief is that everyone else gets promotions, but it's been 10 years. Maybe my work is not good enough. And that's why I don't get a promotion. Okay. So that's my belief. So my thought is, don't ever expect one. It's never going to happen. That's my thought. And so the feeling will be disappointment. Right. Now, if I dispute that belief, I'm going to say, okay, what does God's word say about it? I'm putting it very scripturally. Okay. Spiritually and scripturally. So I'm going to say promotion comes from the Lord. All right. So what would be my consequence? I am actually hoping to do the best in my work so that I can actually see the fruit of it. Got it. So it can be something spiritual or it can be something normal. It's okay. It doesn't matter. All right. So I'd like you to each of you to do that. Okay. All right. Now quickly before we wind up so that we are ready for our next class is I'm going to bring this entire thing of understanding this together. Okay. So, so we, we, the, another kind of a model that we are going to be looking at is what we said the EUA. That's the exploration understanding action. So the counsellors attitudes are, it's like a backbone for this entire model. Okay. So if you look at that, you know, your skills as a counsellor will affect the learning process in the counselling. So this is a flowchart. For example, when you begin to attend your counselling, attending is not giving them coffee or tea, that's not, there's a lot more of attending skills, which is what we're going to learn from here on. Okay. When you attend to your counselling, that's when they get involved. They begin to involve themselves in the learning process. When they get involved is when you do the bit of actually responding, you respond to their feeling, you respond to their content. And that's what leads them to explore themselves. When they begin to self-explore, you as a counsellor, counsellor are personalizing their problem to them, that is, you are helping them see what is the contribution they have to it. When they personal, when you personalize, they begin to move into the next stage, which is they begin to understand themselves in the problem. When they come to an understanding, you begin to initiate and they move into a place of action. Oops, sorry. Get that? So this is how this model goes and what we are going to be learning in the skills is what you see on the top most, that is, how do you attend, how do you respond, how do you personalize, how do you initiate. But we are also next class, we're going to be looking at this self-exploration part of self-understanding and action, that is the process that your counsellor will be going to. Okay. All right. Okay. Now open for questions. If no questions are there, we will go into some practical learning again, so that I don't have to answer. Yeah. Any questions? We have 10 minutes. No, she's. Yeah, I just, can you hear me? Yes. Yeah. Actually, it was related to one of the examples that you had given a little earlier about that person who was complaining that he, complaining in the sense, I mean, that it is pretty bad as this and work itself is bad. And on top of that, I have to work with somebody who's, you know, who's a fool or something, something on those lines. That's right. Yeah. So what I wanted to know, if it was okay to say, there must be a lot of pressure, but maybe it's not so bad. I don't know, I was, is that okay to say in that particular situation, or is it necessary, not when I say necessary? I mean, the right way is, is it always to say, yes, I mean, you are going through a difficult time, or is it okay to kind of make them think differently? Is it okay? So when, I think what we need to keep in mind when someone is saying something to this effect is that the way they see their problem may be the biggest problem in their lives. But when we look at it, it looks quite minor or it looks kind of small. And that's what entering into the frame of reference means, which means I'm putting aside the way that I think about their problem as either large or big or small. I move that away and see it the way that they see it. All right. So initially, when you are getting to respond to their feelings and all of that, it is important for them, for us, to see it the way that they do, that it may be the biggest problem that they have come across. But when you're tying it to what we just learned, the ABCDE model, in order for them to think about it differently or have a better cognitive understanding of it, more than the counselor actually saying, it doesn't look that bad, it's probably, what is needed is that we facilitate a question in such a way that helps them to evaluate their situation as against the reality. So maybe a question like this, I'd like to ask you maybe in the past, what have been some challenges that you have gone through? So she may recollect one, he or she may recollect a certain challenge. And I would ask, so if you were to compare that and this, which do you think was harder? So that's in one way helping them to come to an understanding that, oh, okay, that was much harder than this. Or it may be reverse or she may say, no, that was quite easy and this was harder. So if she says that, what I would probably say is, tell me a time when you've had a much more difficult situation than this one. So in that way, I'm actually helping them see that this may not be as bad as that. And if I could get through that, I can get through this. So it's not giving them direct suggestions because it will be undermining the way that they see their problem. And I don't want to do that, because it may be very genuinely that she's seeing her difficulty as the top most difficulty. But nevertheless, I want her to come up to a place to change this dispute, this irrational thought of life is hard now. But when I'm able to help her see that maybe life was harder then and I was able to work it out then, maybe this is something I can manage. Did I answer your question, Nina? Yes, yes. Thank you. Thank you. So this is from our last class that I have a doubt. So when we were talking about therapeutic relationship, so it's like a therapeutic how we deal with the person. So we have a relationship with them. So how not to feel like that person, like for example, now we are discussing the examples, I don't even know like Susan or someone else. Like, I don't know the person I've not seen the person. But when we are sitting or like in the same room and they're explaining the body language will be there. And when we are feeling for that person, how I want the clarity between how we cannot experience that same depth of feelings or anger or bitterness or anything, what they're going through. But we have the balance and I don't know how to explain it. It's like, we need to have that controlled emotional things, right? Because when we are counseling them, but at the same time when you have a relationship, it kind of goes deep. So like, we can just so that balance has to have how to have a good positive regard for them but not go into them. Like, you know, I don't want to start crying with them. Okay, that's a good question. So one of the reasons why, you know, as a counselor, it is important that you do not counsel people like your kid, your cane, your friends is for this one reason, because you're so emotionally involved with them that you lose objectivity of the problem because you are just as much emotionally burdened or overwhelmed with their concerns. So that's one of the reasons why you don't counsel people you know very well, your own family or relatives or friends. Now, when it comes to a person who you don't know, but you've built a relationship and an establishing a relationship, that's why you would probably keep a professional. And I mean by professional, it is there are certain boundaries that you may need to maintain. And I know in a church setting that is sometimes can be extremely difficult because you have a dual relationship with people. You're a church member, as well as you may be like a counselor within that same unit, right? But one, I think that comes through practice where you, you know, and that's why as a counselor, as a new counselor, or even a seasoned counselor, you need to go through supervision to really understand how much of involvement you have in that kind of a relationship with them because there are certain concepts that become contraindicative in counseling, which we will look at later. It's called transference or counter-transference. That is counter-transference is when the counselor begins to, you know, identify so much with the counselor. When you get to doing that, you become ineffective in your way to deal with them because you're so emotionally involved. So one is it takes practice to really be aware of what your emotional state is. And that's why supervision is so important to help you draw some of those boundaries. Second is constant reminders that these, that the people who are coming to you, even though you regard them and you empathize and all of that, there are, there are certain parameters to that that you are there as a helper and not there as a doer for them. So that's that constant perspective and change that you need to establish as your counseling. So it's more, more than something you do. It's an, it's a change in the way that your perspective needs to change in the way that you deal with people, right? So initially, you can be sure that is going to happen. You are going to be emotionally that involved. But you know that that's not sustainable. Because after a point of time, you are, you're so invested that, you know, they're always on the top of your head. And that's not a good thing. Just like how, you know, you leave your work behind and get home and do things, you should be able to do that as well. Keeping your, your counseling's lives and what they're going through aside and then yeah, it can affect you definitely can. We're also human, but it's a practice that we may need to be intentional to work, work about. I don't think it's something that happens with the snap of a finger. It's, it's more difficult. Yeah, Jack in. Yeah, yeah, that, that's, that's something that, that's answered my doubt and clarified a bit. So what I'm asking is just in case I, I get into a person and then it's the relationship is taking a long time. So it's better for me to hand it over to another counselor or how at that point in time, like for example, not about the church relationship or anything, but when we are counseling a person, genuinely, we learn the attitudes of how to be a good counselor and we are counseling. But that relationship is getting longer. Is it better for us to hand it over before getting too emotional or how does that work? Yes, you're right. So if there is, if you find yourself getting emotionally too involved, so much so that you know, you're probably, probably doing most of the work, you know that you're not helping. You're actually, they are depending on you. So you've actually become a crutch to them. So it's always better to identify that and move them on to someone else who can be more objective in their work. Yes, absolutely. And it's perfectly okay to do that. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. Okay. Shall we close? I'll ask one of the students to pray today. Father God, we thank you. We bless you for this day, Lord. Help us to, Lord, help us to whatever we learned here, Lord, to do practically in our lives, Father God. We submit each one of us in lying hands in Jesus' name, we pray. Thank you all. We'll meet you all next week.