 I think I'd like to welcome all to the Thursday to December 5th regular meeting of the Berlin Select Board. To my left is Flo Smith. To my right is Jeremy Hansen. Angelina Kaepern. I'm Brad Town. And our winner also is Dana Hadley. Additions or changes to the agenda? I have one addition I'm expecting Carla, Nuisal and Phil Gentili to come in. They've been working on a job description for the proposed position that they're working on. I'm expecting them to come in to speak with you. That's the only addition. Okay. You have a public comment? Here she is. Hearing none. Can I say something? Sure. Do you need me for anything for the Selections meeting? Not that I can see. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Good evening. Yep. Okay. Tax sales schedule? There is one property left on the tax sale list that Diane has. It is scheduled for the sale of December 12th. It is for a property at 982 Payne Turnpike South. I've provided the board with pictures of the property. And if you remember last year, and Flo won't remember this, however, we decided that when we have a tax sale we'd give the Select Board a little background on the property. This is an interesting property because the person that is, it's owned by an estate. Both the parties are deceased. They have a son who's been living there. He's been unable to pay the taxes. It's been on this list for a number of years. And the property itself is in poor condition. We bring it to you. We always want your advice whether you want the town to bid on this. In this case, I wouldn't recommend that you bid on this. It would sure be nice if someone did. I didn't notice what the taxes were. What are the annual taxes? Right now the taxes owed, I know, are $8,600. And I think the annual is maybe $1,500 in that range. So unless I hear that you want me to bid on it. Okay. Great. Oh, well, you know, maybe I'd have a view of the pond. Yeah, okay. I think it goes that dream, right down the tube. Do you want me to go on, Brad, to the next item? Yeah, the loan documents for the highway truck. Right. These are the loan documents for the new highway truck. These are items that you have previously voted on. Last time, if you remember, we had a question where the interest rate would remain the same, and it did at 2.05% with Community National Bank, and the borrowing is $150,000 for a... Right on the top of my head that I go to be with me while I search for it. I believe this is a five-year loan. Yes. And it is a $30,000 payment annually. So I guess... How much? $31,000. $31,000. $31,000. $31,000. $31,000. So I guess I'm asking for a motion from the board and accepting the highway note from Community National Bank at 2.05% in the amount of $150,000 for a period of five years, and I'm looking for board signatures. And also, I mean, so it's the next bit there, the non-arbitrage and use of proceeds certificate. Also, we're going to sign that, too. It's part of the same transaction. Yes, because... So there's another resolution that needs to be signed as well? Yes. Okay, so I think I'm going to try to do this all at once. I move that we accept the approved the highway equipment note, the non-arbitrage and use of proceeds certificate for highway equipment borrowing, and the town of Berlin resolution about highway equipment borrowing as presented. And I second the motion. Any further discussion? Hearing none, those in favor? Aye. All in favor? No. The move is opposed. Motion carries. If I could have signatures on both, please. And approval of licenses, permanence vouchers, and applications. Moved to approve general fund accounts payable warrant number 20G10 with checks 19779 through 19822 in the amount of $149,376.04. Also, payroll warrant number 20-11 for payroll from November 10th, 2019 through November 23rd, 2019 in the amount of $44,097.47. I second the motion. Any further discussion? All those in favor? Aye. Motion carries. Now we come to the Berlin volunteer party. Let Keith have this. All right. I had emailed you the budget as I was out yesterday, so unfortunately I didn't see the email until today. But I did make copies, which I will give you, I think. Would you like to take one of those, Angelina, and pass it forward, please? Thank you. So you have two pieces here. So I do have two pieces. And we could look at what I would say to be front page, but I'm not sure if you all have that. If you do. OK. So the first one is the first one. I think you need it. OK. Do you not have a flaw? No, I think so. All right. Very good. I do now. OK. It was a popular page. So this kind of gives you the brief overview of the different expenditures and of the income of the budget. As you can see, we have an expenditure difference this year of $20,850 from the previous year, last year being $331,400, and this year being $352,250. That is an increase of the 5.92% in expenditures. And one of the things on the income, which in the previous years, you see that there is zero in the previous budget surplus. The last few years, we've been detaining the pain, if you want to call it with any of the extra. But what happens is last year, let's just say, last year we put in $20,000. But at the same time, we're trying to put, we're putting $20,000 into a truck replacement, which just a few meetings ago, possibly, there was a discussion on the trucks and what we're trying to do with those. So we actually, I'm just showing that it's there and it's in the zero state. If you went to the actual budget and the line items we have broke down, we can kind of skip over the income portion and just going down through, starting at the bottom of the first page, the administration, the accounting is staying the same, Bachelors still doing the accounting. We have an audit that is wrapping up currently. There is a few differences, the increase in the software that we use for reporting. There's a couple different modules that are coming out that are going to be very beneficial. So you see a 10% increase there. The hazmat line item, which wasn't there previous year, we found that it was needed to be there to take care of what has been used so we can replenish. And if you go to the next page, the insurance, insurance is going to be one of those things that is out of our control. We're looking at a 5% increase there. The next down is benefits. Now, this is where you're going to see a $10,000 increase with the stipend. The stipend is what is given to the responders for time served. It was started back in, I believe, 2001 and has never changed. These are people who are getting up 3 o'clock in the morning, staying all hours of the day during windstorms or snowstorms and actually going out at times purchasing their meals to be eaten there at the station. We did a breakdown on that and honestly, it's costing your volunteers. And I think we see that in the number of volunteers that we actually have. We necessarily think that is one of those reasons why we don't have a whole lot of volunteers, but that is a possible reason for it. So we felt like it was time to do an increase to compensate the guys and girls that are there. How many people does that involve? That involves just under 20 people or just over. You have a very number of hours responding for each. So it's all based on Keith's track of the hours. So if you were to go to a fire call of any sort, you're going to get a point. And a point is good for two hours. So at the end of the year, depending on how many points somebody may accumulate, and that could be volunteer time, the different calls that we go on, it could be meetings, they all get thrown into the pot per se. And at that time, you would then determine how much a point may be of a value. I've seen times where it's been $1.17 a point. And that's for two hours of your time. Not much for compensation. The original idea on the plan was that every time somebody responds to the station, they're using their vehicle and they're burning out gas. And there was supposed to be incentive here for people to come up and work on special projects or participate in meetings and participate in trainings and that sort of stuff. And every time they do that, come to the station. Again, they burn in gas and use their vehicles and, as Joe said, eat in meals. And so the idea was to come up with a compensation plan to help alleviate some of that pain, give them bonus of benefit and do it in such a way that if we had a lot of events in a year, if we were on and out of this hour, we would blow our budget. We would be here other areas where they have a busy citizen and their budget is completely thrown out. So we started off with a $10,000 figure, earned the points. The things they do are supposed to take longer than filling out the form to get the point. It was based on hours and what not to earn their points. And then tally it up, divide it up into the $10,000 and pay it out. But as they said, over the number of years it's been in place, I prefer to do it for an upgrade. We did a quick analysis during the budget and found that the $10,000 we had wasn't even paying for gas to get up and back. And I think if you looked at the hours that everybody puts in there and you pay each person minimum wage for those hours, I think you're looking at 30 or 40 times this amount. Yeah, quite far. Thank you. No hardy for me. So the stipend tax right below it going up at 58% is just to cover the taxes. That's the payroll tax. Going down through the utilities, virtually all staying the same. And communication, again, dispatch services, that increase of only 3%. Thank God, I do believe last year was 7%. It was 9 last year. Dispatch through? Through Montpelier. Capital? So moving down through to the buildings, again, this is kind of a tough one to foresee what's going to happen with the price of fuel and such. But if you looked at FY19 of just over 17,000 spent when we only budgeted 13, you can see that 18 is, I think, at this point is still kind of a conservative number. Let's hope. Moving down towards trucks, the truck fuel for years been kind of dropping it down to what is getting to be maybe more or less realistic. But at the same time, we have to keep in mind that it's a number of responders and number of trucks going out. You have six guys responding. They can all respond in one vehicle. You have more than that. You probably have two going out. And when we have an alarm activation in the commercial zone, you need to have two vehicles going out. Your tower truck needs to go out there. Big lots. There's a big deal. We're going on the roof every time we're down there. That's been a hot topic in the last few weeks, big lots ass. And then going, so that one was decreased by $2,000, but your vehicle repair you see has gone up 7%. This is due to our aged fleet. When we looked back at Fy19, we blew that out by a little over $2,000. And this year, we're getting off of close to that number already. Of the 28,000 that we have budgeted for Fy20. Again, that's due to the aged fleet. So down at the training and education, we did increase the EMS training portion. We're having some young people coming in, and they want to be as active in the EMS, the fast quad as they are in the fireside. And to keep these people in the department, I feel the need to offer that training. And again, $2,000 will hardly put three people through that course. In last year, we did put three people through that course. So moving on, gear. Gear is staying the same with the increase of what is the uniform line item. Virtually that's just your hats and t-shirts and such as that, what we may be wearing for apparel right now. We haven't purchased much. In fact, we didn't purchase any in 2019, whereas this year we are making a purchase and just made it actually the other night. Moving down to our equipment. Again, we decreased the equipment maintenance based off some of the historical data that we've had. And down through, the only other difference would be the miscellaneous. And if we look at FY19, we were probably our first year with Bachelors doing the accounting. I think that was part of some growing pains in marking the appropriate line item that it should be put to. I would not... It was a transition thing. I don't necessarily think that $1,000 in miscellaneous is quite appropriate, but that's what it ended up being. Your miscellaneous typically would be births or deaths in the department of some sort, and you may be sending flowers or a gift of some sort for, you know, people with new babies. Very small item. Yes. Deserved, I think. Yeah. New baby. So I don't know if you have any questions. How is the audit, how is it going? You said it was almost done. It's almost done. Just sent off a list of inventory, which was requested, and we went round and round on the volunteer hours. What they want to define as, let's see, a professional service, such as accounting or, you know, lawyer fees of some sort, in-kind hours is really what it is. And I said in my experience in the past, if I don't have one of my members mode along, I have to then, you know, go out and seek that service. Those are as much as in-kind service as it is somebody looking over the books. So what you would probably have seen in the past of over 4,000 hours, if I go by the definition of the accountant who's doing the audit, you'll probably see a couple hundred hours at best. And I'm fighting her on that because each and every one of us puts in many hours over 4,000 hours in a year. And I think it's well-deserved to be recognized. So she's not putting it in. What did I miss? She's not believing what you're telling me. She's not, I should say, they are not accounting for just volunteer hours but more of a professional service that would have been provided. So in other words, like if it was someone donating time to do the accounting or someone donating time to be a lawyer type. Correct. But what you're saying is the volunteer work that your department is doing to keep you on the station, for the benefit of the... That's not hours that she's counting towards those. Right. So I don't necessarily know if I'm going to win the battle but I do want to state that. You're not. I'm not going to win the battle. But you know better. It doesn't mean you're not going to be determined. To a point. Sorry, couldn't help it. It's kind of a challenging subject when to be a qualified firefighter we are supposed to be a certified firefighter and yet we are coming and doing this without being paid hourly. Isn't that a professional service for no volunteer? I would agree with you not an accountant either. One question I've always had is what if there were savings from paying bachelors to do your accounting as opposed to dying in here at the town doing the accounting and whether that savings could go into what you just said Nick in terms of paying you folks for your services. It seems to me that that's a lot of money to pay for the accounting when you folks are... you realize that that's accounting and the audit. And the audit, correct. And we would still have to have an audit regardless of who did the bookkeeping. What portion of that is the audit, would you say? The audit was $5,000? Yeah, $5,000. So this has been spoke about at different meetings. This is the last December we'll be the end of our contract with bachelors. So I have, once I'm done with the budget moving on to the RFP to be sent out in the next week, again, those are my in-kind hours. Anyway. And so, and bachelors just does know that that's coming up. And I have been mentioning that I would like to sit down maybe with Diane Dana to see what that possibility might be. Again, that's a... I don't know. A topic of which some people have concern with. And I noticed the FY19 actuals are $10,890 and the proposed is $20,000. So is part of that increase also the cost going up in terms of how much it costs? Yes. So you're going to be asking the Count's warrant article for 308. 308. And does that increase what you guys get for a stipend? That is showing the increase to the stipend and the decrease of the previous year's budget. Of the previous budget. Of the previous budget surplus. That increases our stipend from $10,000 to $20,000 in that 308 number. Okay. I mean, if I had my way, you guys would be paying. Right. I'd say the same thing. In fact, if I could get your accounting to the $10,890, that would compensate the increase in the $10,000 to your stipend. And that's where I'm coming from. And that's the only reason that I mentioned the actuals versus the proposed. In the best of all works. I have talked to Joe a little bit about the accounting. And I think that it's a process that we need to talk some more about with Diane. And we need to have the software that we can put the modules. Can you mention that with the modules? She could use. And also I think that there is probably some more work on your part on your side. People that need to work on that. Yes. But we're always open to discussion on that. So if you need to sit down with us, please let us know. Because Joe mentioned a 10% increase in the modules themselves. That was a different set of modules. That was for our fire reporting software that we have to have that includes the national reporting that we have to do on all our calls. Great. But that reporting that contributes to the insurance rates in the town. Does that link to that? If we do not do that reporting, ISO does not have that data available. The other thing is if we do not do that reporting we are ineligible for federal grants. Well done. It's always a You were going to talk about equipment? What was that? No. The equipment? The increase in the maintenance? No. I'm sorry. I'm talking about fire trucks. Are we looking to put an article in this year's warning for any truck? What is the timing that we would need to do? What are the milestones? You would need to have that into by and I don't have the date right in my head but by the third week in June. Okay. And you would need to decide if you bring it to the select board and they're going to support the warning. It's different than if you're asking for a petition which if you need to go to the voters and Rosemary could tell you 100 people I think it is out of the percentage. Bring it here first. As well in advance of that we're going this route first. Yeah, absolutely. So we want to see a couple different bids, three anyway. But not bids but budget estimates. Right. Yes. But last time equipment was purchased was it done in a separate article? For a part of the article it was. We had it warned as a separate article. The last vehicle we bonded was our rescue truck and the rescue truck is a 2003 truck. We have purchased new since then our tanker was awarded through an AFG grant so we only had we paid I think it ended up being about 15, 20 percent and that percentage was taken out on a loan for our part. AFG covered the federal government paid for the rest of that. We're extremely lucky for that and the town benefited well and then we've purchased the tower truck and engine two both used both under 50,000 each and we did our own loans on each of those two. And we talked about the situation on all those vehicles a few meetings ago like Joe said. So it's been like 17 years since we have requested a bond for a truck. Is it a bond you're requesting as well? A truck and well that was junction with a bond. A bond for the cost of the truck. Which is the way that we did. That was the way it was done before. The town bonded I believe it was a neat year payback on the rescue is what the town did. I believe the reason for that the research done the bond was going to give the best interest rate. I'll need to get back to you because there are some requirements as far as public hearings and things like that. I'll do that. I'll look that up. I remember the rescue one was bonded over a nine year time I believe we can find the write up of the warning for those trucks I would expect it would be in the town annual report for 2002 or it might be 2001 because that truck took two years to build it. It's either 2001 or 2002 but that warning should be published in the annual report. You'll have it now it was written and then the way engine one was written would be back in 1991 in that town report. Anything else? Any other questions from the party? If you have recommendations on a budget or think we should do something different part of the reason you bring it to present it to you guys. I can tell you I'll be racking my brain for weeks probably trying to figure out how to get you guys more money. So the key with the budget is obviously and I think I tend to always try and make it as little increase as possible just because of the political part of it but is to be realistic and it seems that you're realistic with your figures. It does do that way yes. Well it's been obviously the stipends very low and you know sure who wouldn't want the age asked volunteers to have to pay for their serving him. Thank you. There was several yeah several weeks several meetings. All these figures are based off of you know historical data of five years past. So we can watch the trends and make adjustments where we feel we could and I also got to give you a lot of credit Jerry D'Amintides who sits in on these meetings and gives us the right questions at times maybe we need to rethink you know how we do business. I'm not going to crank your way but I think you've got really realistic figures and I think you've come about them in a sensible manner and you have to always realize that you're never going to be right so I mean and you bring them to us in an auto fashion. Appreciate it. What was the hourly rate you guys are getting for the stipend again? Oh there is no hourly rate. It's not an hourly rate. So they collect all their hours at the end of the year to violate the 10 or 20,000 by however many hours there are and then it goes to everybody based on how many hours they put in. Through a point system. Through a point system. It's it's ranged from 35 cents to a dollar 50 an hour to us. When do you distribute it? We finish up the calendar year and then process it and usually send them out February or March. And that stipend is taxed? Yeah unfortunately. That's it. We tax 57 cents an hour. Do we have a coin card? We do a coin card once a year. Does Berlin have any big donors like for example Norwich University in Northfield might do a lot for their town? Does Berlin have any entity that we've ever reached out to? We have in the past. Like Walmart. It's part of our plan to do it again in the future because we have reached out in the past of CDH, Crossbow Shield, and a few other entities, Walmart. And it is. They can be somewhat generous. They like to be asked. Right. We will be doing a letter campaign that's been going through quite a few drafts. And I think what we have is what's going to be sent out. This is for the replacement of the three trucks in the period of X number of years. Again, we have a 30-year truck. We have a 26-year-old truck. We have a 40-year-old truck. And so all these will have to be replaced at some time before we see our maintenance costs go up even higher. Okay. There's been discussion about the charge. Are you thinking of a charge for false alarms or things like that? And I know we have some sort of ordinance. We are moving forward with big lots currently. They have been, they've had technicians down there trying to remedy the situation. It was like an automatic alarm that keeps going on. It is. We have a term for that. It's an automatic false alarm of fire. Okay. That's a good term. I just went to a seminar. I should take a look at your ordinance because our ordinances need a lot of work in order to be legal to collect. It's on the books here with the town. It's a town ordinance. We should have a conversation about that offline. Right. One of the things that did develop the last couple of days is our chief Jeremy Dufresne Keith Van Eiderstein, the deputy chief is going to be stepping in to finish up the term. So thank you. You're welcome. So after the term is over, do you run? We have our elections are for the chief and the president are two year cycles. The next one up this May during our annual meeting is the chief's position. So you'll serve at least through May. That's what I'm hearing. Yes. And then you run a hard campaign to I don't think it needs to be very hard. I think the transition would be quite smooth. I'm sure it would be. It's been started all very lucky. Now one of the things that probably should be at least mentioned and that we don't have to go into any great depth in discussion and I might be surprising some of my colleagues to my left. But the department the department and the town of Berlin are growing in different rates. And I do believe that that department needs to have a part time at a minimum I don't care if you call it a part time chief or a part time administrator of some sort. There's a lot of hours that go into that. There's a lot of outreach that is not happening. A lot of oversight on the buildings of the commercial growth within Berlin. And I think not just the department but I believe the town is missing the boat on it. So I think that's a discussion that we need to have throughout this year and we might I don't know be talking about something different next. There are some benefits to the town that having staffing would be good. I think there's some benefits as you say if the town would help out with the accountant that would benefit the town as a whole. Well if we had staffing on the department there are benefits that I think could help the town. Right now I believe our hydrants are getting shoveled out but there's something maybe that we could pay and do in-house. We have things to take care of our own building oversight and other things of that nature but I think there's other ways that we're paying some of your plow. Well if we put a plow in our pickup we could take care of our own plow. We could possibly take care of some other plowing on small yards as well and keep the cost in-house. There's benefits there and other things that would put somebody in our station, in our facility close by to help take care of some of the issues that we are having in-house. I even think of applying for grants. There is a grant out there called it's a federal grant similar to the AFG called the Safer Grant. It's for fire service funding actually police too I believe for emergency services funding where it's a five year cycle it starts with the federal government paying for the majority of the payroll the first year and then after the fifth year it's the 100% of the payroll goes back to the organization the municipality or what have you. It's intended to help staffing in this situation and help ease into it. That Safer period is is it open now as well? I believe it's open December 4th That Safer period grant application is happening as we speak Are we prepared to move forward with that obviously not right now Could we get a plan to do it for next grant cycle? It's feasible Is it an annual? It's an annual That goes hand in hand with the AFG I talked about a couple of meetings ago as well for vehicles and so on and so forth I've had conversations with a few other fire officers in central Vermont and their thoughts are that we would this department in this town would benefit greatly by having a paid chief be a part-timer full-time How that model looks right now We haven't gone into depth with it yet How where it's going to be funded and so on and so forth But that Safer grant is a possibility to help out the funding It gets you gently into it It gets you gently into it And the town is changing a lot It is So you might have already mentioned that with the fire truck grants and what not that is something else that we are applying for We are hoping to apply for Grant, bear it open now I know you are making it real after One of our other goals as well is to not only is a letter campaign for a membership drive so that we can recruit smaller volunteers What's the average age of your volunteer? You got to take me out of the mix You would So would I I don't know 30 Probably 25, 28 I would say Somewhere around here in society 89 We do have quite a few younger members on right now Which is good 30 may be the right age but it does seem like the older ones Anything else? Thank you gentlemen Thank you Did you want to speak with Carla and Phil? Sit right at the table You want the good share? So we got great news today We got the grant Yes But I did want to and I don't want to beat a dead horse But it does One of the conditions is that they do want to the note said this grant has been fully funded but the award is conditioned on amending the work plan Before issuing the grant agreement we would like to discuss the work plan with you to make sure it is realistic for the 18 month time frame of the grant So we have to work with Jacob at ACCD to I'm not sure what the work plan currently looks like He's coming in next Wednesday He's been invited Tom and I are planning to meet with him I don't think it's a huge problem that will take very much Did we have a longer time frame? I don't even know about the time frame but naturally we want to get it done as soon as we can Obviously there's a requirement on the grant side that it be done within a certain amount of time Tom's been in touch with Jacob The only reason I mention it is because I'm here once again a staff person and I think that that staff person and obviously the grant would begin before any position would begin but I think that having this grant really sort of exemplifies it makes it more important that we think about having somebody Isn't the grant to kick start the application process? It's to do the application but I think there's a lot of and assuming I'm not sure who's going to be hired to do it as a consultant but assuming that it's the one we've had in the past or one that acts like the one we have in the past it may be fine but I still think someone at the town level that's coordinating activities would be beneficial to that process as well as other things because I think one of the things this position would be as a project coordinator and I think keeping that person in task would be helpful but again I feel like we've maybe put too much emphasis on this person only being for the town center designation when I think that regardless of that this person would be valuable to the town I don't know if you've seen that we did get the job description I know Dana has it but I don't know if you've seen it but that's the one from Burlington which I looked through it and a lot of it I think although some of the words are different you and I talked briefly about this but I wanted to sit down with you and fill I was going to call you yesterday but so that we can kind of rewrite I mean I don't have any problem with that job description but a lot of it is either not applicable actually I would say not a lot of it a small portion of it isn't but some of the things we've talked about in terms of economic development when we were talking with some of the other local development entities is like keeping track of properties that are available in Berlin trying to find actively seek tenants or attract people to the businesses to the community and I think that's something else that this position could do but I really think that it's I just hate to do it too late for it to have the effect if we do it sooner rather than later I think the progress that we make will be exponentially greater whereas if we put it off too long I feel like it's not going to have the same impact and I'll let Phil talk because he well I was asked to come obviously by Dan and Tom and I guess I'm here to advocate a little bit on behalf of the Berlin Conservation Commission and whether you know it or not we're reorganizing in a way we lost four members in 2018 and we've added three new members some of which I think still have to write a letter we need to formalize that but it shouldn't be a problem but you know we're gaining some new traction and we have some new energy which is exciting because for about a year we were very stagnant Angela left and she was the heavy leader for 10 or 15 years obviously she did so much and then Cheryl Peterson left Ellen Drysdale left and Beth Doubt left the commission so they left myself, my wife Ellen Sulek and Tom Willard and then we've added two other three other members you know JC Earl and then we brought on Sister Lorian Matthew Pollock I think those are the two that the board needs to right and Matthew unfortunately couldn't be here in November because of work so last week it was two weeks ago we had a meeting with the Planning Commission so we kind of checked in with them and told them our agenda and everything and it became apparent to both Tom and Ellen and I when there were just the three of us going through the lists of what we'd like to do and what we think the charge of the town is to the Conservation Commission and what we're responsible for now and what we'd like to see happen and the list got rather long and in doing that after meeting with the Planning Commission the idea got hatched that maybe down the road if we would get another administrator on board through grants or whatever maybe 0.1 you know one tenth of the time or four hours a week or something four to eight hours a week could be used not just on the town itself but supplementing both the Planning Commission and the Conservation Commission with some hours and time and organization and admin support so that got us pretty excited but I thought maybe what I could explain to you are some of the topics that the Commission has been exploring and what our focus has been just to give you an idea you know we have a laundry list of things here and I just think it's interesting if you hear about where we are and what the task we think we're charged with are different areas of concentration we'd like to address land conservation obviously we'd like to do a town wide inventory in mapping so the townspeople can know where the public lands are where we own land, where we can walk where we can bird watch, where we can trail ride or whatever that's pretty important we think one thing that came to light with Sister Lorian which is very interesting and she brought up a lot of interesting issues especially in the town plan is make sure we address ground water protections so we want to make sure that in the town plan that's included ground water protections she cited a problem over in Waitsfield where a land owner you know was about to do with the old remember the Vermont what they call it in Randolph Vermont Pure remember up on next to VTC up there Vermont Pure they were withdrawing large and the trouts when a couple stream dried up because you don't know what you're affecting in a way when you're tapping like that so that's an issue we also have river access issues we're talking about river dog river cleanup, access to the jacuzzi trying to get to the jacuzzi safely without going on the railroad tracks which is illegal Tom Tom Willer is very interested in the Stevens branch he actually says that the make of the Stevens branch and the river I guess has a lot of similarities to the dog river for trout and that even believe it or not even you know behind McDonald's could be a nice trout fishing area or access so those are some ideas in the future trail planning and management which is coordination with VAST they'd like to consider putting a trail in with Mumba which we Montpelier Mountain Bike Association we've had some issues with them cutting trails on Irish Hill that weren't allowed to connect with the state forest over on Crosstown and eventually talking with the Northfield Conservation Commission about continuing the ridgeline trail over all the way to Payne Mountain the peak and then down the old ski access to Shaw Outdoor Center so those a lot of that's just that issue you know we have existing management issues that we'd like to address we have to mow the Stuart fields we think that we should be charged or at least come up with a plan for invasive species to kind of regulate buckthorn and a couple other issues that are sprouting up we have the town forest plans that we continue to address and manage you know we have Friendship Park and Dog River Nature Area which we would like to maintain in a way and also alert our population that there are places to go the year before last the year before last summer Corrine came up with this wonderful list wasn't generated by the Conservation Commission or the Recreation Commission she did it but it's a wonderful thing that I think should actively have the town posted in somewhere and this is our Greater Central Vermont community summer in Berlin 2008 what's on your list to do this summer she has wonderful ideas you know concerning what to do in Berlin that would be great to continue that and support her I mean we are I guess in a way indirectly we do have a little admin support to the town office but it's not you know we're not coordinated in some way at this plan let's see town plan you know we talked the other day about the town plan and eventually developing a trail or a boardwalk trail between the school over wetlands to the mall and where the new development will be that will be a whole project unto itself as far as figuring out how to get zoning for that and how to build things like that to make the town center plan more accessible and including the school and all the land around it the other thing we'd like to do and I don't want to take up too much time here but we thought maybe a component of the conservation commission would be an educational component and so we had ideas about having conservation commission sponsor talks maybe at the school on evenings maybe just four times a year or something like that we came up with ideas like having Roger Hill come and talk about weather and climate chaos or change or whatever you want to call it you know what's been going on maybe having Jim Jim I think his name is Jim Andrews or Eric Sorensen talk about amphibians and reptiles and vernal pools and Brian Pfeiffer coming to talk about birds or Chipped Armstead about birding in Berlin we've already had Audubon Vermont Steve Hochbach has been here and identified you know critical areas with the Stewart fields going up Irish Hill and how to create habitat for birds Berlin pond itself working with Fish and Wildlife and Vermont lakes program and refuge you know United States forest and wildlife services and the refuges whether Berlin pond should be on it you know I said vernal pools wildflowers other town lands you know maybe acquiring other town lands we know that there's a piece of land up on Irish Hill that is totally landlocked but has where many springs come from in the fence up there and Tom Willard says it's a choice piece of property we should maybe look at purchasing once more protection for the Berlin watershed Berlin pond watershed and of course always out there is at some point how can we protect or work with Henry and getting Turner's Falls and protecting that as a very valuable resource and people you know right now we're not allowed on it's private property but if you've ever seen Turner's Falls it's one of a kind in Vermont is magnificent and it's right in our backyard but you know what does that mean eventually it might mean something so you know the list is long and there were three or four of us and we're looking at all this and go how do we parse this up you know at this point it seems like the best way to get traction is if someone's on the committee and has an interest or real affinity towards groundwater or mapping or land acquisition that's kind of the direction we're going I think what would be really helpful is if in the long term planning in the next year or two if there's a new admin person added to the mix here and they could you know give a committee like ours you know two or four hours a week that would be immense because you know we're all working as volunteers and you know how that is as soon as you leave the meeting it just kind of gets diluted and lost and it's sometimes hard people have other lives so I think someone to really stay on the ball and help us coordinate these things we could get a lot more done and I just want to add the meeting that we had one of the best things was just learning what they're doing like we don't communicate enough I think among the committees because I had no idea what types of projects the conservation commission was working on and I think it's really and I was really excited after that meeting to hear all the things that they were talking about but I did want to say the other thing that I just brought was this grant opportunity that I saw there were several things on your list that could qualify for this grant it's up to $200,000 it's due by January 20th but this is just an example of something that I think the new person could could facilitate Is that the one the governor just told? Yeah it was in the digger yesterday so a lot of those things it's a recreation This was last year too right? Yeah I remember that from last year and we were just looking at it going it sounded great but we were just like So I think one of the things that we actually sort of Tom and I threw around today was the pedestrian access idea and trying to maybe put a grant together to get some money for that opportunity but I tried to sell them this I had a guy come in the other day trying to sell me a splash pool because I hadn't explained what it was but I think I need one So anyway again I just I feel strongly about it I know it's a commitment but I just I think when I think of the planning commission when I first started we really didn't have support and we really weren't very productive for that reason you know just having that person that keeps you on track and keeps everybody behind the scenes and you know I think it would really aid the other committees as well One of the thoughts I had too Phil when you were talking about the educational component CBH does community meetings and they do events and they build it in on certain nights of the week so you were mentioned doing it at school downstairs in there yeah CBH they would band with you and have you know services and commitment and money yeah that's a great idea that's a really good idea the other thing I thought about and we floated just about a year and a half ago I went to Wayne and asked if we could put a kiosk or a board up a maple wood to announce when her meetings were in general if you know I feel like it would be helpful I don't know if all you know committees or boards could get together and say should there be something hanging somewhere so people going by would say select board meeting 10-7 o'clock and then take it down the next thing put conservation commission tonight at night you know it's 6.30 somewhere and there is a bulletin board over there I know there is it's against the wall it's not that effective well I don't I don't think we have control over his where he puts it but we do hope over there he said he would be more than willing to put a kiosk or a sandwich or something under the overhang so it doesn't so people walking in and out now you don't see it from the road the other thought I had just dreaming was maybe he'd let us put you know like it's an old looking colonial signpost with you could change something on it just hang tonight you know I mean obviously someone has to do that it's not up to date you look foolish we also have to have the recorded message that they change frequently that could include other things like that I think Korean re-records that once a week once a week so if there's meetings or things coming up you can just you can literally right now just tell Korean and she'll add it to the package of the message it's also possible Washington world might advertise on their board for free it's worthwhile asking doesn't hurt to ask yeah they are in our town another thing too everybody's on Facebook so do you have a Facebook page you don't that's a great idea that's a great idea I'm not in Facebook they have an event I use front porch forum to announce things but we don't get much response from it a lot of events that I attend are things that I find on the events and then they build on upcoming events so anyone who utilizes that will look for upcoming events and find things that way too it is I agree with you Phil you really do need to get the word out somehow in a variety of ways you can do it and frankly you're never going to be able to do it enough and I'd love to have a chance to talk with you and both of you and redo that job description so are you envisioning us adding to the budget that we're considering right now that was my hope that would be the ideal world and my ideal world and I know it's a commitment and I know Dana has some concerns about the work but just communication I was talking to Jacob at the ACCD one that we have to work with on the grant and he said often times communication, outreach gets lost it's a small town small staff a lot of volunteers and he said this type of position is really good at picking up types of activities and he really thought that the $60,000 salary was very in line with that position both at the state level and at the regional commission level regional planning commission level so I think I think the idea is a really good one I'll just tell you where I am I think it's something that maybe you could get a soft entry to like maybe have someone part time for a while and move into it because I think we're looking at about $90,000 with benefits and I'm just using the worst case scenario which is what concerns me is we don't have the designation I think we're going to get it and we're going to have professional help to get it right but do you think if we don't have it just because we don't have the designation we're not going to have growth I mean I don't think that's the case if we did not get the designation let's just say and there was no new town center would the person be like what promoting I mean the only thing that's dependent upon the town center is the TIF I think the TIF requires that we have a town center designation but I think the development will happen regardless I mean I think there's opportunities for I mean the town center designation is desirable because it helps us to how do I want to say this better control the development and the way the development happens because of the having that official map but I still think that regardless of whether that happens there's potential or we would certainly want to try to continue to look at that area and there's certainly a lot of work to do for that to happen you're dealing with a private landowner and you have a lot of negotiation to make and you need to really communicate with the board as far as what you're going to be looking for them to do and so I it's not the position that I'm just looking at the budget right and thinking how it's going to not be too painful all at once you know you could do a grant like the fire department might get for help or you know well yeah I mean obviously I don't want to say that this person is going to fund themselves through grant funding but I do think there's a strong opportunity for the right for the position to create some of their own funding but you can't you're never going to wouldn't be 100% but it would be interesting if it was that way if it could be tied in for the fire department as well you know grant funding throughout the town in all respects that would be another way to look at the beneficial there's a lot of logistics that we need to really talk about how it's going to work I hear you I'm not against the person I'm just trying to be realistic I hear you I mean even if it was funded it could be funded full time but start in January or something I mean I don't know it doesn't necessarily have to be maybe because who knows how long it would take to even find somebody I'm concerned about the idea of it being half time and not being able to find an adequate person I'm concerned at the same thing because if you're offering someone a job you don't want to say to them six months down the road sorry we don't have any job for you anymore no I mean you mean if it starts in January no I'm just talking to make sure that we're in the position that they can immediately take off running Tom tells me yes and I don't disagree with him but yes you do obviously which maybe we need to talk but I do agree and I don't mean to keep talking about I do agree that the committees need more assistance the conservation commission could really benefit I mean I saw Mrs. Chandler all the time doing a lot of work here as a volunteer wow I mean it leverages the volunteer activity if you have somebody that is willing to support or that can support the committee because I just we've done so much more since we've had help and I just think it really leverages those hours makes people want to participate in the committees more when they feel like they're accomplishing something when you're spinning your wheels it just doesn't feel you don't feel like you're doing anything productive so I think it really would make a huge difference so if we could do that job description that way I can go to the board and say this is what the proposal is if I can get you on board Dana I know I can get them on board so we'll work on that we'll work on that thanks guys for listening to me again no worries thank you you're welcome a bid opening for the 2019 town reports yes we have four fitters and if you'd like to take your dance card if you'd like to see it I don't know if that's why they aren't okay actually shall I give one to each of you I think that'll work oh I got presents and you need something to open it I've got scissors I've got scissors okay good I have some in my pocket too because this pen doesn't have oh and that is a that's a good point because we're not first year we will not have the school this will be just a single report so are we really going to have 140 pages I think so last year we did okay so we will have the school that will be putting this no no last year the book had over 200 pages we had like 230 pages or something half the solution half the solution solutions the one you have half the solution do you want to just tell what the so the cost to print the 2019 Berlin town report is $1873 delivered this price was based on all the requested specifications specifications sorry and close is the Nottingham book we printed this year and also in 2011 2012 in 2014 thank you for the opportunity to provide and they are in North Brookfield I forgot to put the address here North Brookfield service accurate printing they have a bid here in the amount of $2199 they included copies of a smallish copy of the middle sex town plan the town report the town report spiral bound and we have a stapled town of Chelsea and they have done they are in Berlin and they have done our reports this one is repo and for 600 copies they are at $590 did you say $1590 and if we do a two-year thing with them for 2019 and 2020 it would be $1520 for each year have they done it $520 before? yes they have done it last year they did it and I think they did it the year before 2019 $1590 and that's that's for 2019 but they do the 2019 and the 2020 it will be $1520 each year and I have RC Bradshaw and company and they set a finished size 8.5x11 140 pages 70 sheets printed double sided with black text on 20lb white 4 to 1 color over black on 8 points C1S cover perfect bound delivery via their company quantity 600 for $1971 and they included the town report for town of Killington Hancock, New Hampshire town of Hopkinson town of Baskow in New Hampshire and the 2018 annual report for Piermont, New Hampshire and they are located on 11 Commerce Avenue and West Lebanon, New Hampshire so I would say repos are pretty good price they're the lowest one and if we go with the two years which I think is still they've consistently been if not the lowest they've been within $50 of the lowest price I think it probably makes sense then to go with the two year bid well it takes and give you an idea what it's going to cost the next year that's for sure they're saying for both years it would be $15 $20 they'll do a cost grade of $70 per year for doing the two years and it locks in so prices go up we get saddled with those increases and there was nobody there's not really anybody even terribly close so I'm going to move that we accept the bid from repro of Winooski for two years at $1520 $120 per year I second that motion any further discussion all those in favor those opposed, motion carries probably not as good as I should it's going to take a right back by the way thank you present for you Dana I can't do it either okay appointment of Tor Nelson for ultimate member DRB Tor has expressed interest in serving as an ultimate member of the DRB I did not ask him to come in because I thought you knew him Tor Nelson is an ultimate to the DRB second motion any further discussion those in favor those opposed, motion carries proposal for cemetery survey Dana if I could have you sign Tor's appointment appreciate it we had talked a little bit and I know I've talked to Jeremy down on Junction Road who is interested in donating a piece of property to the town to add to the Colby Cemetery which is a I don't it's an old cemetery that is no longer people are no longer interred there but it's located right off of they're still interred they're not newly interred they haven't gone anywhere it's really quite a nice cemetery but it's right off of Junction Road the gentleman who is willing to donate a little bit of property is willing to give it to the town but obviously and it would be done as a property line adjustment so it wouldn't have to go through a form of subdivision they do need a survey done which he is asking the town to pay for and the estimate for that is $3,050 how many acres is that? it's the amount of acres that he wants to give that's a very good question I think that's part of the survey but I wouldn't call it more than certainly an acre at the most basically it's the straight the cemetery the line the cemetery is on like a little mole and also to bring the line right to Junction Road whereas right now it's not so what you're saying is that what he's quoting here from the wastewater design and permitting we are certain that it's not going to require that extra step that he mentions because it's more than $3,050 if that's the case have we run it by our we haven't done any of that this is right out of the to answer your question Jeremy no I'm not certain but I read it because he's talking about less than 500 feet but I think Tom has assured me it doesn't require a subdivision so I don't believe we're going to need a wastewater permit which seems kind of ridiculous for a cemetery about I mean engineer or the project manager here is suggesting that we probably do so I mean I'm certainly going to trust Tom that he knows his zoning stuff and development what not well I guess I could clarify that and to we could certainly approve the first bit I mean but or we could approve the first bit and then conditionally approve the second if it's necessary I mean it sounds like another $1,500 we don't want to spend it of course we don't have to I think the whole question is is it beneficial in the amount of $3,050 require this piece of property for the town for that cemetery and also I have not put this out to bid this is the only so I mean that might be something we could think of as well so I guess I'm asking for the board's advice and then as far as funds there are some cemetery funds that I would ask the cemetery committee if I could end the board if I could access those putting it out to bid might be a good thing I thought so as well but do we want to inform with it doesn't seem ridiculous for just shy of an acre for some I'm just trying to think of what he's trying to as I understand what Mr. Slate is trying to do is just straighten up his boundary line I think he is planning his estate and he's doing some estate planning and it's more that he would like to see the town have it for the cemetery straight lot I don't think it's he's concerned about his line so much although I shouldn't speak for him I think we should go forward with the bidding I do too so I move that you put the survey and mapping for that boundary adjustment potentially subdivision permitting out to bid second motion any further discussion on that Dana I think it's better off to have Rob look into the whether or not it's going to need waste water I certainly would do that I'm not feeling well I mean you know I don't I do believe Tom however I would I would obviously run this through and I got the I had them give me this figure I had no idea what it would cost survey a little piece of property and when I saw the cost I said wow but when I think of it I suppose that's not unusual any other discussion on this those in favor those opposed that carries updated municipal sewer ordinance yes I'd like to give you that ordinance it's been approved by the town attorney it's been approved by the public works board and the next step would be for this board to update the existing ordinance so if you'd like to just take one and pass it down please and I was thinking maybe you bring it back in January I've asked Tom to give us a synopsis of exactly what changed in there so that you know again an ordinance like this would require the select board to vote on and it would be a 60 day period to take effect there are some changes in how they figure the some of the charges for items in here that you might be aware of how Berlin charges residents who hooked up things like that yes exactly so this is the Tom's been working on this for a little while and the public works board has and so now they're recommending that the board go forward with it anything else on that no no I just got that approval of select board minutes for November 21st and November 26th moved that we approve the minutes for the first day of November 1st 2019 and the November 21st thank you Tuesday November 26th 2019 select board minutes as presented second the motion any further discussion on this hearing none those in favor aye motion here please maybe all here for these I think even for the Tuesday I was here you were here and Flo was here and so were you Brad okay I just want to make sure so we have one abstention yes were you here when we put it up the police officer was last Angelina was not here so that's Tuesday all those in favor aye motion carries one abstention for the 2000 for the 26th you were here for the 21st she was there in the 21st ok Brad our minute taker is very thorough and she asked me a question and she asked me a question that I thought was interesting and Robert's rules of order and she asked if the chair voted in many cases the chair only votes when there's a tie or to make a tie or to make a tie and I don't know I always thought you voted and we're also not obliged to follow Robert's rules exactly I mean the way we do our discussions here is different I wanted to understand what her question was when she saw that we changed the number of the last Justin brought up about Robert's rules states that I had a feeling you might have heard about it states that for boards 12 members and up the chair does not vote for 12 members and down for 12 members so I so I leave it up to the board if they want me to vote I guess that's what I'm asking because that person I mean I was a little bit consensus so I mean the CB Fiber board there's 18 people on that board and I chaired that but our rules of procedure allowed me to make motions and I vote explicitly with that that we're just going to assume you're going to go with the majority. I was under the impression really you've always voted, but I think we can just assume that you cast your vote with the majority unless you say otherwise. That's how I've always interpreted it. The way I understand it, when I read Robert's rules years ago, the Mabel's got it all right. It's fascinating too. I don't like how it comes out. The basic of the chair is I tend to stay out of the arguments as much as I can because I don't think it's right for the chair to get to involved because you lose some of your projectivity. At least that's my feeling. The rest of it is Robert's rules is just a way to take and make sure everybody has their say. I'd like to think I'd do that. Well I appreciate the guy who's because I'm going to speak with our minute taker because I told her I would find out. I would say whatever the board wants me to do, I'd be fine with that. I think we just go forward like we have in the past and just assume that we're going with the majority unless you say otherwise. So just make sure we don't correct your owner. We'll welcome those. Otherwise, because on that motion that we talked about, it would have been a 2-1. If we assumed that you were voting with the majority then it would be 3-1. But a 2-1 still passes. Still has a quorum even if you're not voting. Anything else on that one, Dana? Thank you, no. I promise the minute taker I'd find out. Time to minister this report, Dana. This week what I have to report to you is yesterday I did go over to a class on you remember that Trevor Whipple came in and spoke to you about the ticketing process and we had kind of expressed to Trevor about having an additional way to enforce our ordinances and our zoning ordinance specifically and if it would be more of an incentive if we could issue people tickets. And it is possible and it's a procedure we do need to rewrite several of our ordinances to match what we need to have in there in order for this to happen. I'm not so sure whether it will make a huge difference in the zoning because zoning goes to the environmental court rather than just basically the judicial court but I think that and I'll have more information for you but I think that we do need to start going through and putting in the wording that's needed in our existing ordinance which means we're going to have to amend several ordinances. Would violations of the ordinance also go to the environmental court? Yes I would imagine. So this would allow us to... It would give you the legal right to and you would designate who is the ticket writer. Now law enforcement officers automatically designated by the state but as far as zoning violations it could be me, it could be Tom or whoever else. It could be you if you designate yourself to write the tickets. And I don't anticipate. This is not a revenue stream at all. This is just to have fairness throughout the town maybe. It also catches people's attention. It catches people's attention and realistically many times the people that you're going to be writing tickets to do not have the resources to pay you. And you're going to have to have a mechanism of what you're going to do about that. Because I think of it as like small claims court where I used to work the policy was to take people to small claims court and nine times out of ten you'd spend all this money to get into the court and have the sheriff deliver the paperwork and you'd get there and they'd have no money and I've been there. I understand it. And the judge would say to you, well they have no money so see you later. Thank you anyway. That was it? That's it. Okay round table. Flo? Nothing. Jeremy? I'm good. Angelina? No. Executive session data? No, not tonight. Second to motion to adjourn. All in favor? Aye.