 It's time for the Lawn Gene Chronoscope, a television journal of the important issues of the hour, brought to you every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. A presentation of the Lawn Gene Wittner Watch Company, maker of Lawn Gene, the world's most honored watch, and Wittner, distinguished companion to the world-honored Lawn Gene. Good evening, this is Frank Knight. May I introduce our co-editors for this edition of the Lawn Gene Chronoscope? Larry LaServe from the CBS television news staff and Associated Press correspondent Francis W. Carpenter, covering the United Nations. Our distinguished guest for this evening is Dr. Charles Malick, Ambassador from Lebanon to the United States. Dr. Malick, Lebanon is a country about the size of New Hampshire with a population of about two million, I guess. Would you tell us something about the role of Lebanon in the Middle East? Well, Mr. LaServe, I don't know whether it is really as big as New Hampshire, but it's a very small country. And as to its population, it's not quite two million yet. It may be nearly a million and a half, but it's a small country, both in size and in population. Yet its importance in the Near East and, I dare say, in the world at large cannot be measured by either its size or its population. For it is a unique country in the Near East. It's a country that is half Christian and half Muslim. It's the only country like this in the Middle East and, in fact, in history, where you have these two religions meeting with each other on a basis of complete equality and mutual respect. The Christians in Lebanon participate in Western culture and Western spirituality to the full. The Muslims, who are very vigorous citizens in my country, they participate in Islam and in Eastern culture. So I should say the most important thing about Lebanon is that how these two outlooks, how East and West meet together in freedom and in perfect mutual respect. The second thing about it is that everywhere, whether in the Arab League, to which we belong or in the United Nations or in any international gatherings, we try to play a moderating and mediating role because we believe that in the end only such a policy is successful and worth pursuing. And finally I will add one word and that is about freedom. Lebanon is famous for its freedom in all of its phases. People can think what they like, they can express what they think and they can live as they please. So I should say as a moderating influence, as a place where East and West really meet and mingle in freedom and as a place where freedom can flourish, Lebanon is really a unique little country in the world. Dr. Malik, could we follow that up a little bit and can you tell me, is the Middle East itself stable and secure at the moment? Is it in a stable situation? Well now, I think that you mean by secure whether it is in danger of external attack or of internal eruptions. Is that what you mean? Yes, I'm thinking mostly of the internal situation. I don't think we need to worry about aggression at the moment for the minute quarter, but is there is a ferment in the Middle East or are they politically stable and calm at the moment? Well of course there is calm and stability, but I think it's more apparent than real at the present moment because we still have terrific problems throughout the whole area. First of all, we have not yet related ourselves on any permanent basis with the outside world. It is still a question as to how we should be related to Europe, America or to the communist world, still unrelated in any permanent manner to any of these words. Secondly, even our relations among ourselves have not been fully stabilized. So it is a question also what sort of order among the countries and peoples and nations in that area is going to emerge in the next few years? Well Dr. Malik, do you think at the moment that the question of French-Morocco and France's relations with its protectorate is capable of settlement? Well it is capable of settlement if the French are going to yield, yes, but I find it very difficult for the French at the present moment with all their internal problems and their relations to the African protectorates to proceed with any great hope for an immediate settlement of the problem. So I am rather pessimistic about the immediate outlook but in the long run there must be a settlement because it is a problem capable of settlement if there is good will all around. Mr. Malik, you're not only the ambassador to the United States from your country or the ambassador to the United Nations from Lebanon and as that ambassador you're also entitled to a seat on the Security Council. Now do you think that the problem of Trieste which is coming up in the Security Council tomorrow is capable of settlement there? Well I marvel at your desire to see every problem capable of settlement and immediately. I don't know. I know very little about Trieste. This thing has come up all of a sudden to us in the Council. I'm going to study it this weekend. Again there are great difficulties there but I'm not as pessimistic in that problem as I am with regard to some of these other issues. So I think some kind of a modus vivendi will be worked out between Yugoslavia and Italy and the other interested parties. Could I go back to Morocco? The Arabs in their contention to the Security Council said that Morocco is a threat to international peace and security. Well now sir, taking for granted that you have argued that from all the evidence of the case does it really appear that Morocco is really a threat to the international peace? There's no war there, there's no aggression anywhere? Well I don't think the Security Council Mr. Carpenter should be seized only of those issues which deal with war or with real threat to security. The Charter says any situation that is likely to produce international friction or international disputes. Now certainly Morocco is producing lots of friction and lots of disputes among nations. And therefore from that angle it is certainly worthy of examination both by the Security Council and by the General Assembly. Well Dr. Malik you're not only a diplomat, you're also known as a philosopher. Could you tell us do you believe that coexistence is really possible between the communist world and the free world? If you want my most honest opinion I'll tell it to you although I am seen in television now. I believe unless there is a radical fundamental change of heart in Marxist practice and theory throughout the communist world I honestly do not see how in the long run peaceful coexistence is possible. Do you see any changes in the Marxism philosophy now? I don't see any changes in the fundamental Marxist theory now. I read whatever literature I can get hold of and I read certainly the pronouncements of the great masters living and dead and I think it's still the same old Marxist doctrine. Well there have been fluttering of the dove of peace since Stalin died. You think then that those are just fluttering that the spirit of world domination is still there in the communist world? Well I read Marx and I read Lenin and I read Stalin rather carefully as much of them as I could and I do not believe that these men honestly believe that there can be peace until they have communized the whole world. And that's what they say. I'm not saying that. It's they who first said it. Dr. Malik, besides being a diplomat you were also the chairman of the committee that wrote the Declaration of Human Rights back in 1948. Have you seen any progress in human rights since that declaration was first presented? In the United Nations so far as developing documents of legal binding force is concerned we have not made much progress during the last five years. But I can assure you that the influence of that humble declaration which we proclaimed five years ago has been most incalculable throughout the world. I would like to pay a tribute to you at this time because I watched you work during three long months of working that document out. I think that a great part of its value is due to the ideas you contributed. Do you go around the country making speeches from time to time Mr. Ambassador? Could you tell us what in your opinion is the current state of American opinion of the UN at this time? I frankly am a bit discouraged because I find people losing faith in the United Nations at the present moment. I don't think it has the strength in this world organization and make it the real instrument that it should be. But there is a real slump in the feeling of the American people about this matter. Dr. Malik, do you feel there's any relaxation in the world tensions at this time? Yes, there is some relaxation. But it may be very deceptive and we should be most careful not to allow it to lull us into premature letting down our guards. Dr. Malik, may I ask you one final question? Could you tell us what the Arab nations really want from the United States? I think they really want simple things Mr. Lesard. They want justice, namely that they do not feel at the present moment that they have been justly treated. They want freedom, namely wherever there is a problem where their own liberties are at stake. They want to feel that the United States would help them to achieve freedom. They want a sense of equality with the rest of the world so that people can respect them on a basis of equality. They do not feel that. And finally, they want closer cooperation among themselves. And they would hope that the United States and the other Western powers will not stand in the way of developing whatever natural, closer relations they can develop among themselves. Well, thank you very much Dr. Charles Malik. We've been very glad to have you here tonight. The opinions you've heard our speakers express tonight have been entirely their own. The editorial board for this edition of the long gene chronoscope was Larry LeSard of the CBS television news staff and Associated Press correspondent Francis W. Parker Carpenter. Our distinguished guest was Dr. Charles Malik, Ambassador from Lebanon to the United States. To watchmakers of the old school such as Long Gene, pride of workmanship is a traditional attribute of every detail of every operation. In truth, the smallest cog in a watch is just as important as the biggest wheel. Pride of workmanship made Long Gene the world's most honored watch. Honored at world fairs, by 10 grand prizes and 28 gold medals. Honored at government observatories with countless prizes and citations for accuracy. Honored as official watch of leading sports and contest associations the world over. For you who have an appreciation of the fine and the beautiful, the pride of workmanship so evident in every Long Gene watch makes an irresistible appeal. And our particular message at this time is an important one. If you wish to buy an owned or proudly give a truly fine watch, you may select the Long Gene watch for as little as $71.50. And regardless of the price you pay for that Long Gene watch, it is made with that pride of workmanship which has made Long Gene the world's most honored watch. The world's most honored gift. Long Gene, premier product of the Long Gene Witner Watch Company. Since 1866, maker of watches of the highest character. We invite you to join us every Monday, Wednesday and Friday evening at this same time for the Long Gene Chronoscope. A television journal of the important issues of the hour. Broadcast on behalf of Long Gene, the world's most honored watch. And Witner, distinguished companion to the world's honored Long Gene. This is Frank Knight reminding you that Long Gene and Witner watches are sold and serviced from coast to coast by more than 4,000 leading jewelers who proudly display this emblem. Agency for Long Gene Witner Watchers. History repeated and you are there Sundays on the CBS television network. It's time for the Long Gene Chronoscope. A television journal of the important issues of the hour. Brought to you every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. A presentation of the Long Gene Witner Watch Company. Maker of Long Gene, the world's most honored watch. And Witner, distinguished companion to the world's honored Long Gene. Good evening. This is Frank Knight. May I introduce our co-editors for this edition of the Long Gene Chronoscope. From the CBS television news staff, Larry Lusser and Charles Collingwood. Our distinguished guest for this evening is Eric Johnston, special emissary of the president to the Near East. Mr. Johnston, you've done so much work of national importance in the last 10 years under three administrations, I guess. I probably covered more of your press conferences than almost anyone else. Now you've just returned from the Middle East where you were the special emissary of the president. Can you tell us exactly what your mission was there? Yes, I went out to the Near East to present a program for the development of the Jordan Valley. Before the program was presented to the United Nations and perhaps summarily dismissed by the nations involved. The development of the Jordan Valley calls for the irrigation of 240,000 additional acres of land in this area. For the development of 65,000 additional horsepower of electric energy. Under this program, the four nations involved in which the Jordan, which comprises the Jordan watershed, would agree upon the division of the waters of the Jordan. It would avoid future conflict between the countries involved. It would make this valley blossom such as it has never done before. And probably would allay a great many of the fears and the bitterness that exist in this whole area. Well, Mr. Johnson, weren't your negotiations made considerably more difficult by the flare-up of trouble on the Israeli-Jordan frontier at about the time you were there? It certainly was made extremely difficult. As a matter of fact, the bitterness and the hatreds are very difficult to describe here and I think it would be difficult for us in America to understand them. Mr. Johnson, do you think it's possible to put up a TVA authority for the Jordan River Valley without peace in the Middle East? Oh, I certainly do. As a matter of fact, I think if the people involved would agree upon a division of the waters of the Jordan watershed that that in itself would avoid future conflict inside the riparian rights of the river. It will inevitably lead to future conflict and the President of the United States wants to avoid that. Well, did you make progress? I went out there merely to ask these nations to consider the program and to talk to a special presidential envoy when he returned. In each instance, the heads of the governments of the countries involved agreed to study the program to see if it fitted into their particular plans and schemes and to talk to a presidential envoy when he returns and the presidents asked me to return. You're going to be that presidential envoy? I think I am. Mr. Johnson, do you think that the Middle East can ever be turned back into the biblical land of milk and honey under such an electric project? Yes, it really can. As a matter of fact, in this whole area, at the time of the fall of the Roman Empire, there were about 57 million people who lived in a standard of living which was the highest of the then known world. Today, there are about 16 or 17 million people living in the same area at one of the lowest standards in the now known world. And if we continued our technical assistance program in this area and if the British and the French continued their program perhaps 400 years from now, we would restore this area to its productive capacity at the time of the fall of the Roman Empire. Mr. Johnson, this gets us to something which has been considerable preoccupation of yours for some time, which is point four. You're still chairman, are you not, of the International Development Advisory Board, the point four board. What do you think about the role of point four in the Middle East and in the world in general? Well, I think the role of technical assistance is one of the finest things that America has ever done and I believe most of the people of America feel that and most of the people of the world. Technical assistance in its broadest scale tries to teach other areas of the world to help themselves. In other words, we provide technical assistance to people in the fields of agriculture, health, sanitation, education so that they can help themselves to improve their lot. We in America don't realize how important technical assistance from other countries is to us in the United States. For instance, during the last 50 years we've imported thousands of plants from abroad that has increased the productive capacity of various of our agricultural products and without these new strains from abroad that have resisted disease or resisted rust or have increased the productivity per acre. We would not be producing anywhere near the agricultural things in America that we are today. Mr. Johnson, each new administration seems to make a policy of rediscovering Latin America. It seems to me you are once chairman of the Inter-American Development Commission. What's the situation now, south of the border? South of the border they've made a great deal of progress in technical assistance. As a matter of fact today, the nations of South America contribute about $4 for every dollar that we contribute. I think there is no program in Latin America that is more popular than the technical assistance program. Milton Eisenhower testified to that in his recent report after his tour of Latin America. .4 have made areas of South America that have grown unproductive through misuse, brought them back into productivity again. It has eliminated malarial areas and yellow fever areas that existed in these countries. It has brought new and improved livestock strains and new improved seeds to the country. And technical assistance is really beloved by the people of South America. Mr. Johnson, to go back to your power project, your water power project in the Middle East, do you think that the president's new offer of a pooling of atomic energy resources would make a great difference to the output of electrical power, say, in the Middle East and Latin America? Well, it could in great many areas, but probably not in the Middle East because they have tremendous resources of gas and oil. And you can develop electric power from gas and oil probably much cheaper than you can from anything that we know about atomic energy today or nuclear fission. But in other areas of the world where there is little or no gas or oil or coal or hydroelectric energy, of course, it can do a great deal towards increasing the productivity by increasing the power facilities of those areas. Mr. Johnson, you were a man who met budget problems as a businessman and also as the economic stabilizer right after the war. You had some ideas then about balancing the budget. Do you think it's possible to do so? I don't think it's possible in the next year or so to balance the budget. No, I don't believe it's possible. I think when we want to balance the budget, we must decide in our own minds what are the things that we're going to do without. Because you can't balance the budget unless you are willing to cut out services or goods which we're purchasing. If you're willing to do that, then I think you can balance the budget in the United States. You mean it would be a reduction of the standard of living in the country to balance the budget? No, not. I don't necessarily mean a reduction of the standard of living. I mean that there are things which we enjoy, which our government pays for, and we're going to have to decide what are those things which we're going to eliminate. What about inflation, sir? The cost of living index is creeping up. This administration promised to end inflation and it seems to be coming around all over again. Oh, I think inflation is pretty much of a dead duck. I think it may fluctuate to one or two tenths of one percent in the next year, but that's about all. I think inflation is pretty well checked. Well, these things don't stand still. Would we have deflation then, do you think? No, I doubt if we'll have much deflation either. First place, there are inflationary tendencies in the economy, such as an unbalanced budget. Furthermore, I doubt if you will find a reduction of wages, and I think it would be undesirable to find a reduction of wages. So it's probable that for the next 12 months at least, things will be pretty much in balance. Mr. Johnson, your distinguished career in government has been involved a great deal with our relations with other countries abroad, particularly our economic relations with them. Do you think that it's possible for this country to exist independently apart from other nations in the world? Of course I do not. I think it would be utterly impossible for us to do so. Many of our strategic materials we get from abroad, many of them we do not have in this country, we're becoming more and more of a have-not nation, more and more of the raw materials we get from abroad and many of the skills we get from abroad. I think the leadership of the world has been thrust into our hands, this sceptre of world power many of us don't know how to use and many of us don't want to use. But the fact is that it is here, we can't throw it away and we are the leader of the world, irrespective of what we may think about it. We have to take the position of leadership and the responsibilities that go along with it. You mean our own self-interest involves the rest of the world? Unquestionably it does. Well, in what way? You said something about raw materials. Well, for instance, most of our cobalt comes from outside the United States. We find that practically all of our tin and nickel come from outside the United States. A good deal of our copper, we're getting iron ore now from outside of the United States. Many other raw materials that we find essential for any type of productivity. Richard Johnson has been talking in the past of a roving economic ambassador, and I think your name was mentioned in that connection. Do you think anything could be accomplished by having economic ambassadors from the United States? Yes, I think a great deal can be done. The Economic Development Advisory Board that you mentioned a moment ago of which I'm chairman recommended to the President of the United States some time ago that there be economic roving ambassador to various areas. I think the job that Mr. Randall did in Turkey as an illustration is a remarkable job that she talked to the Turkish people, told them changes that might be made in their legislation in order to attract foreign capital. Until today, Turkey has done those things. And today we'll find that Turkey is one of the most profitable, can be one of the most profitable areas for private investment. There's a final question, Mr. Johnson. You're on the television now, but you've been long associated with the motion picture industry. Can you tell us something about the situation in Hollywood now? Well, I think Hollywood's going through a great revolution. It's always been in a series of crises. If it has a period of tranquility, it's kind of sandwiched in between crises. It's always been that way. But I think Hollywood will emerge better and finer than it's ever been before. Well, do you actually think that the TV will not put it out of business? Of course it won't put it out of business. Nor will the motion picture put TV out of business. They're both here to stay. Thank you very much, Mr. Johnson, for a very informative evening. The opinions you've heard our speakers express tonight have been entirely their own. The editorial board for this edition of the Lone Gene Chronoscope was Larry LeSœur and Charles Collingwood. Our distinguished guest was Eric Johnson, special emissary of the president to the Near East. Falling snow, carolers in the quaint costumes of the 1860s remind us that this year, Lone Gene, the world's most honored watch, will celebrate its 87th Christmas. It was the success of Lone Gene Watches in early World's Fair competitions, which started Lone Gene on the road to world fame. As Lone Gene Watches won one grand prize after another, great people the world over simply had to own this celebrated watch. The Sultans of Turkey, the Mandarin of China, the Grand Dukes of Central Europe, and the Millionaires of America. The Lone Gene Watches for this Christmas of 1953 are truly magnificent. Each is individually worthy of the awards and honors which Lone Gene Watches have won over the years. And each, through personal experience, will demonstrate the greater accuracy for which Lone Gene Watches have won prize after prize. Remember that you may still buy and proudly give a Lone Gene Watch this Christmas for as little as 70-150. Lone Gene, the world's most honored watch, the world's most honored Christmas gift. Premier product of the Lone Gene Witner Watch Company, since 1866, maker of watches of the highest character. We invite you to join us every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday evening at this same time for the Lone Gene Chronoscope, a television journal of the important issues of the hour, broadcast on behalf of Lone Gene, the world's most honored watch, and Witner, distinguished companion to the world honored Lone Gene. This is Frank Knight reminding you that Lone Gene and Witner Watches are sold and service from coast to coast by more than 4,000 leading jewelers who proudly display this emblem. Agency for Lone Gene Witner Watches. This is the CBS television network. Time for the Lone Gene Chronoscope, a television journal of the important issues of the hour, brought to you every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, a presentation of the Lone Gene Witner Watch Company, maker of Lone Gene, the world's most honored watch, and Witner, distinguished companion to the world honored Lone Gene. Good evening. This is Frank Knight. May I introduce our co-editors for this edition of the Lone Gene Chronoscope? Larry Lisser from the CBS television news staff, and Kenneth Crawford, National Affairs Editor of Newsweek Magazine, our distinguished guest for this evening is the honorable Herman Talmadge, Governor of Georgia. Governor Talmadge, the economic situation, I guess, is just about the most important subject in the country these days. I'd like to ask you, how is business down in Georgia? Well, on the whole, it's held up remarkably well, Larry, but farm prices, as you know, have been going down for approximately 18 months. Georgia, with all of its great industrial expansion, is still largely an agricultural state. Our farmers aren't far and too well at the moment. They're concerned because if farm prices have been going down about 18 months, everything they buy has either been going up or remaining at a high level, though they have been caught in a price squeeze that's concerned them a great deal. Governor, President Eisenhower apparently was quite popular in your state in the last election. Has the economic slump affected that? Well, the president was relatively popular, Ken, but you must remember that Georgia gave the Democratic Party and the Democratic nominee, Governor Stevenson, the greatest percentage-wise majority of any state in the Union. The relatively large vote that President Eisenhower polled in Georgia was due largely to his personal popularity, the respect and the confidence that people had in President Eisenhower. And second, there was good many of them in Georgia, dissatisfied with President Truman. I would not think that the Republican Party in Georgia is anything like as popular as President Eisenhower, and if the elections for Congress were held at the present time, Republican candidates in Georgia would not poll half as many votes as President Eisenhower polled in the last presidential election. Governor, who do you Georgia Democrats feel as the head of the Democratic Party now? Is it Governor Adler Stevenson? Well, of course, we recognize Governor Adler Stevenson as the titular head of the Democratic Party since it was he who carried the Democratic standard in the last presidential election, 1952. But Georgians looked to their United States senators, their congressmen and to their Democratic governor to form policy in our state rather than to the titular head of the national Democratic Party. Would you think that Senator Russell's name would be presented again at the next Democratic Convention as it was at the last? I don't know whether it will be presented again or not. I presume that fact would be determined by Senator Russell's wishes. If he desires to do so, certainly Georgians will support him as loyally in the next Democratic Convention as they have in the last two. Well, Governor, who do you Democrats feel controls the Democratic Party now? The industrial north or the more conservative south? Well, I wouldn't say that either element entirely controls it. Now, prior to the last day or two, the last convention, when they were passing the so-called Moody Resolution, the Democratic Convention in 52, it was pretty apparent that the left-wing elements of the industrial east were in the ascendancy of the party at that particular time. But before that Democratic Convention adjourned, reason had reasserted itself somewhat, and some of those who had rammed through some of those stringent restrictions had to eat crow, and the southerners and the conservatives were in the ascendancy of the party and regained control prior to its adjournment. Well, speaking about that civil rights platform, the Supreme Court is due to make a decision pretty soon, sir, on the segregation in the schools. Now, how do you, George, think that decision is going to go? Well, anticipating what the Supreme Court will do, all you can do, Larry, is follow legal precedents that have existed for a great number of years. Now, we know that the Supreme Court of the United States for the last 88 years has been making decisions relative to segregation in the common schools. Those decisions have all been the same. They've been written by Justice Brandeis, Chief Justice Hughes, William Howard Taft, Justice Stone, all of the legal giants of American jurisprudence. Without exception, they have held that the matter of segregation in the common schools of our state is a matter that addresses itself to each state and not to the federal government. Nowhere in the federal constitution is the word schools or education or anything of that kind mentioned. Constitution hasn't changed. The laws have not changed. Sometimes the political complexion of a court does change. Sometimes it may be swayed by political pressures or sometimes by sociological opinions. But if they follow the law, as all lawyers understand it, they will uphold the present method, which is separate but equal schools, and each state themselves may determine whether they want to maintain and preserve segregation or whether they want to change. Governor, assuming, however, that this decision does go against you, what plans have you? Well, we haven't made any particular plans as yet because we don't know what the decision will be, but we have tried to be forearmed. The General Assembly of Georgia authorized a study commission at its last session of the General Assembly that's composed of approximately 21 ladies and gentlemen of which I am chairman. A good many of the constitutional officers of the state government are ex-officio members, and I, as chairman of the commission, have appointed a number of outstanding leaders in all phases of activity in our state. We will study any decision of the Supreme Court and make recommendations to the General Assembly as to what course of action it should follow. And then, in addition to that, the last session of the General Assembly submitted a constitutional amendment to the people of our state for their approval or rejection, which will enable the General Assembly in its discretion and in its wisdom to utilize tax funds for the payment of tuition fees to private institutions if that becomes necessary. Well, that is going to be a very difficult system to set up, I suppose. Very expensive, sir? Anything the Supreme Court does to thwart or change our present system of state control of our educational systems will be the most difficult thing that we in the southern states have had to approach or deal with since the war between states. It will affect something like 12 million school children in about 17 states in the District of Columbia now. It's a tremendous number. Actually, 17 states have mandatory segregation. 17 states have permissive segregation. But at one time, the overwhelming majority of the states in the Union had segregation. Now, the white people in the south and also the Negroes in the south want it left alone, just like it is. The legislators, white and colored, want to change. Governor, this means, in effect, that your state would set up a private school system. I don't think there's any doubt what my state would do so if they had to maintain segregation. Separate schools in Georgia, one way or another, come what may. A lot of people that aren't familiar with it don't realize how far-reaching or deep-seated that is for both races, white and colored. Now, about the nearest comparison that I can possibly think of at the moment. If the Supreme Court of the United States suddenly handed down a decision that you could no longer worship your God in these United States as you saw fit, you can imagine the consternation, the chaos, the turmoil, the excitement that that would create. Any decision to outlaw segregation in the common schools in the southern states would amount to about the same thing in our area. Well, Governor, does that mean if you're going to may set up private schools and state funds that no matter how the decision goes, Negroes are going to benefit through better schools and more advanced education? Negroes are already benefiting through fine schools. In Georgia, the last several years, we've been building fine schools in the university system and in the common schools. We spend 53 cents out of every tax dollar collected in Georgia for public education. That is the highest percentage of any state in the union. The next highest percentage is our sister state of South Carolina that spends 48 cents per dollar for common school education. We are in Georgia at the present time. Building 1,036 new school buildings in every county and state for both white and colored students, absolutely without any distinction whatsoever. It involves 12,000 new classrooms. It's the most gigantic construction program undertaken in the history of my state. Governor, I know the local custom and tradition are against racial mingling, but how do you think this whole problem is going to be solved in the future? Well, it'll have to be solved in the future just as it has been solved in the past by each state controlling state matters and the federal government handling federal problems and leaving local matters long. Because if we had to set up a federal bureaucracy that tries to regulate the lives and social customs and feelings and one thing and another of all of its citizens, it will mean our Republican form of government as we know it today will be destroyed. The federal government next will be having thought police and people to go around and examine you to see if you have any prejudices against red-headed people or blue-eyed people or freckled-faced people and we find ourselves getting into the realm of the ridiculous when we try to deal with matters that aren't authorized by the federal constitution. Governor, I'd like to ask you the final question, something about the industrial situation in the south. Now, a lot of factories are moving down there from the north and furthermore a lot of new factories are opening up there. Do you think this is going to give the south a lot more political power in the future? Well, I wouldn't say necessarily political power, Larry, but it will mean far more economic ability for our own local citizens. We're proud of the industrial progress that we have made in my state. Last year, Georgia received 270 new industries located in Georgia and the increased payrolls of those industries in one year long amounted to between 40 and 50 millions of dollars. Now, lots of those industries were developed by local people with local capital. We don't offer any inducements to any industries located in Georgia. We want them to become citizens, help them develop our state. We offer them no advantages whatsoever we don't give to other Georgia citizens. Thank you very much, Governor. I'm proud to have you here tonight. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be with you. The opinions expressed on the Long Jean Chronoscope were those of the speakers. The editorial board for this edition of the Long Jean Chronoscope was Larry Lisser and Kenneth Crawford. Our distinguished guest was the Honorable Herman Talmadge, Governor of Georgia. Another baseball season is here. The Major League teams begin their long drive toward a parent and a chance for the World Series. And this year again, in game two World Series, Long Jean watches on the wrists of all national and American League umpires will officially time the baseball games. Now, timing the baseball games is an honor of which Long Jean is very proud because it reflects a trust in the accuracy and the dependability of Long Jean watches, gives practical proof of the superiority of Long Jean manufacture. Among the world's finest watches, only Long Jean has won 10 World's Fair Grand Prizes and 28 Gold medals, and so many honors for accuracy in fields of precise timing. Now, in each of these magnificent watches for you and for you is the famed Long Jean watch movement with greater accuracy and longer life in built through superior workmanship. For an anniversary, a birthday, a graduation, for any important gift occasion, throughout the world, no other name on a watch means so much as Long Jean, the most honored watch, the world's most honored gift, premier product of the Long Jean Wittner Watch Company since 1866, maker of watches of the highest character. This is Frank Knight, reminding you that Long Jean and Wittner watches are sold in service from coast to coast by more than 4,000 leading jewelers who proudly display this emblem, agency for Long Jean Wittner watches. At Long Jean Wittner Jewelers, the perpetual motion clock created by Lecoultre. Atmos runs without winding, without electricity, powered only by variations in the temperature of the atmosphere. Atmos product of Lecoultre division of Long Jean Wittner. It's time for the Long Jean Chronoscope, a television journal of the important issues of the hour brought to you every Monday, Wednesday and Friday, a presentation of the Long Jean Wittner Watch Company, maker of Long Jean, the world's most honored watch and Wittner, distinguished companion to the world-honored Long Jean. Good evening, this is Frank Knight. May I introduce our co-editors for this edition of the Long Jean Chronoscope? Larry Lisser from the CBS television news staff and August Heckscher, chief editorial writer for the New York Herald Tribune. Our distinguished guest for this evening is the honorable Ernest A. Gross, former United States ambassador to the United Nations and Assistant Secretary of State. We're now on until next fall when the United Nations Assembly meets and the congressional elections take place. This country will be faced by a continuing question. Can we keep Red China out of the United Nations? Now, our guest tonight has probably had more experience in fighting the battle of and against Red China's entry, and successfully I may say, Red Japan. Mr. Gross, we'd like to ask you, as our former ambassador to the United Nations, what do you think our present chances of keeping China out are at the moment? I feel very confident that the Communist Chinese Government will not win its seat in the United Nations, either in the General Assembly when it reconvenes or in the Security Council. And I believe that will be impossible because the great majority of the countries in the world, I think this applies to the western European countries to all of Latin America, now with perhaps no exceptions, the British Commonwealth and several countries in Asia and several countries in the Middle East will oppose the Chinese Communist representation in the United Nations. But Mr. Gross, for example, in 1950 before Korea, was there any comparable United sentiment against the admission? It was not nearly as strong. In the Security Council in 1950 before Korea, the Chinese Communists became very, very close indeed to winning a seat on the Security Council. There is no doubt that in the General Assembly there was strong sentiment in favor of seating the Chinese Communists. Mr. Gross, are we against Red China's entry in the UN because she's an aggressor now because we hope someday to overthrow her revolutionary government? The problem of representation of a member state such as China is a different problem than the one of admitting a state into membership in the United Nations. It seems like a technical difference but under the charter of the United Nations it's a very important distinction. You mean China is already a member of the United Nations? China is already a member of the United Nations. The question is, who is to represent China? Now, China now has a representative in the Security Council. The representative is Dr. TF Jiang who is a very able and distinguished one of the leaders of the free world cause in the United Nations. He remains a representative, the representative of China until he's replaced. In the General Assembly, the delegations of the Nationalist Chinese Government have been very distinguished. They would be replaced by the Communist Chinese if they won their seat. Mr. Gross, when you were our ambassador to the United Nations, you said that the admission of Red China to the United Nations or the ousting of Nationalist China was not subject to the veto but the present Secretary of State Mr. Dulles says it is subject to the veto. How do you explain that? In January of 1950 on instructions from the Government I did announce that the position of the United States Government was that we were opposed to the admission of Red China to the Security Council but that we would accept a majority decision. You didn't say therefore that a veto is impossible you said you didn't want to use the veto. We said that we would accept the decision actually our position was based upon a very simple and logical point. The fact of the matter is that the charter of the United Nations provides the procedural questions in the Security Council are not subject to the veto. The question of who represents a member state has been regarded as a procedural question and it's a very simple common sense reason why because you see if a permanent member of the Security Council, one of the so-called Big Five had the right to veto in the case of who represented a government who was on the Security Council then my good friend Dr. TF Chang I hope he stays on the Council for a long, long time but Dr. Chang the Nationalist Chinese representative could veto his own replacement because he represents China. China is a permanent member of the Security Council and therefore there would be no chance of his being replaced. The question of the United States using its veto would never arise Chinese could use it themselves. Does this mean Mr. Gross that if Guatemala's new government were on the Security Council that Russia would veto it? Well that's an interesting point because if Guatemala were a member of the Security Council and the communists, the Soviets did not like the new government they would veto the replacement of the representative of the former government of Guatemala. So there are very practical reasons therefore why we should rely upon the straight majority principle and not get into the complications which would be caused by the application of the veto which I think is unnecessary in any event. Well nevertheless in the Assembly what sort of a vote will be needed there to keep Red China out? Well under the majority of 31, the simple majority or two-thirties, the United Nations that provides that in the General Assembly votes on important questions have to be taken by a two-thirds majority and how do you both decide what is an important question? The procedure is that the majority of the members of the Assembly decide whether or not it is important. If the majority decides it is an important question then it requires a two-thirds vote to carry a proposition. I have no doubt that the problem of the representation of China would be regarded by a majority of the members as an important question and therefore would be subject to the two-thirds vote. Well isn't all this discussion rather backwards wouldn't the vote come up on the ousting of Famoso of the Nationalist Chinese Government before Red China could be seated? Well what happens in the General Assembly is that each time there is a session of the Assembly both rival candidates present their credentials you see so that the credentials committee which is appointed each time the Assembly begins its session once a year has to pass upon which contestant which competitor is entitled to the seat for that government. Has Red China actually been doing that? Red China has been sending a telegraphic communication they have not been given visas to appear in person at the UN headquarters but they have been sending a cable regularly and dutifully each time the General Assembly convenes and claiming the seat. Did you feel during your representation at the United Nations that communist Russia actually wanted Red China to be a member of the UN? Well I felt that while I was in the UN I could never read the mind of the Kremlin I believe that they have acted consistently as if they wanted the Red Chinese alongside them in the Security Council and I believe that that's the case I think it's kind of subtle to look for reasons like that. Are there conditions which can be laid down and made clear to the world on which we would admit Red China at some future time? Is there some pattern of behavior to which it would have to conform? And to try to define the reasoning there of course our basic point must be that we should not support the admission of Red China to the UN unless and until we consider it to be on our national interest to do so now in the future in the indefinite future if we say that we shall never under any circumstances support Red China's admission to the UN we are trying to out guess our own national interest my own conviction is that we should not support the admission of Red China to the United Nations until and unless we decide that our support of their admission to the UN is more likely to induce them to change their course of conduct and bring them into compliance with the standards of civilized behavior Mr. Dulles has said that the UN is not a reformatory so letting them into the UN would not reform them they have to purge themselves first The UN is not a reformatory I quite agree it's more like a hospital it's supposed to reflect the state of the world as Mr. Dulles pointed out in his very excellent book written in 1950 War or Peace and it is of course a supposed to be by design a fair reflection of the divisions and tensions of the world I don't not myself draw much of a distinction between Communist China and Communist Russia so far as bad behavior is concerned Well do you think Mr. Gross that if some sort of agreement reached in Indochina as seems possible from the news we've had recently that the chances of red China's entry into the United Nations will be better Well I think that there will be more pressure on the part of countries who some of whom are now of course teetering on the edge of supporting Communist China those countries which have recognized Communist China there are some 14 to 60 and I don't recall the exact number I have not by and large voted to admit red China to the U.N. to seat red China but it is true that the closer the Chinese communists come in the future if they come to compliance with the standards of international behavior there will be pressures to seat them Well actually if this pressure gets very strong and it appears as a red China will become a member of the United Nations do you think we should withdraw what would happen if the United States actually walked out of it I just don't believe we will walk out of the United Nations that would lead to a fragmentation of not of the United Nations but of our national policy of slendifying the free world we cannot possibly break up the United Nations without reverting to the age old balance of power a principle and practice which has inevitably led to war we have to do what has been called develop a community of power I don't think the United Nations is really working as well as it should I think that the Russians have obstructed it from the beginning but we must it seems to me persevere in the effort to solidify the free world and we can only do it through collective action Thank you very much Mr. Grills we appreciate having you here tonight The opinions expressed on the Laun Jean Chronoscope were those of the speakers the editorial board for this edition of the Laun Jean Chronoscope was Larry Lusser and August Hector our distinguished guest was the Honorable Ernest A. Gross former United States Ambassador to the United Nations and Assistant Secretary of State Big League Baseball is one of the many sports timed by Laun Jean the world's most honored watch of both national and American leagues used Laun Jean watches for timing all games including the All-Star Game and the World Series the fact is that Laun Jean is official for timing championship sports events throughout the world official watch for the contest board is the American Automobile Association the National Aeronautics Association the American Power Boat Association and many many other leading sports and contest associations now why is this so Laun Jean's great accuracy and complete dependability the fact is that in some 75 years of accuracy competitions at government observatories Laun Jean watches have consistently maintained a place of honor established many records won countless prizes and awards these are but some of the reasons why Laun Jean is deservedly known as the world's most honored watch the watch of highest prestige among the finest watches of the world and why discriminating people in 100 countries have found the name Laun Jean the first word in buying a fine watch the last word in accuracy dependability and complete satisfaction and yet you may buy and own or proudly give a Laun Jean watch for as little as 70 150 Laun Jean the world's most honored watch the world's most honored gift premier product of the Laun Jean with no watch company in 1966 maker of watches of the highest character this is Frank Knight reminding you that Laun Jean and Wittner watches are sold and serviced from coast to coast by more than 4,000 leading jewelers who proudly display this emblem agency for Laun Jean Wittner watches at Laun Jean Wittner jewelers see Atmos the perpetual motion clock created by Lecoultre Atmos runs without winding without electricity powered only variations in the temperature of the atmosphere Atmos product of Lecoultre division of Laun Jean Wittner it's time for the Laun Jean Chronoscope a television journal of the important issues of the hour brought to you every Monday Wednesday and Friday a presentation of the Laun Jean Wittner watch company maker of Laun Jean the world's most honored watch and Wittner distinguished companion to the world honored Laun Jean Good evening, this is Frank Knight may I introduce our co-editors for this edition of the Laun Jean Chronoscope Larry Lecer and John B. Oaks from the editorial board of the New York Times our distinguished guest for this evening is her Excellency Claire Booth-Luce United States Ambassador to Italy and President Eisenhower nominated Claire Booth-Luce to be Ambassador to Italy two years ago some persons doubted the wisdom of his choice never before had a woman been named or assigned to a first-class European power and certainly not to one that was in trouble where communism was growing well two years have passed and communism has become weaker Italy is stronger even the Trieste problem has been settled in short never underestimate the power of a woman Madame Ambassador Mrs. Ambassador before we kettichize you I'd like to ask you just how do you like Italy well Italy is a very wonderful country I don't say that because I have the honor to be accredited to it the proof of that is that over 6 million tourists visited Italy last year 500,000 Americans and they went there to see the beauty of Italy and to also to find that the Italians are the most charming and courteous people in the world actually is Italy ready to stand on its own feet now or do we have to continue aiding her well let's face it Italy is a relatively poor country it will not be able to solve its own problems entirely alone for a good many years it will need the help of Europeans and others in the world and especially of America Mrs. Ambassador will you attribute the diminution of communist influence inside Italy and how strong is it there still anyway well I attribute such a diminution has been largely to the common sense of the Italian people there are very wise people and they are beginning to see that communism really really doesn't pay and doesn't produce the things that they expected many of them of it that is one of the main reasons also the government has taken some very vigorous action against the communists in the last year such as well they have dispossessed the communists from the former government owned fascist properties communist unions and many communist organizations they have moved into clear communists out of sensitive places also the government they have done a good many things of that sort they are invoking for the first time very strong libel laws against the communists for libel in the press Mrs. would you say that communism is actually still Italy's biggest problem always no question but what this encroaching form of totalitarianism is the major political problem how do you account for the fact that communism seems to have grown in the agricultural areas more backward areas in Sicily well that's a bit of a paradox you know the government has really done some extraordinary work in the question of land reform in the south of Italy in the depressed areas obviously the government couldn't move forward to solve the whole question overnight but very often where it has moved in the communist organizations have moved in faster to take the credit for what the government has done and to demand more than the government can possibly do at this time without without risking inflation would you say that the land reform program really is progressing then practical and positive yes there's no question of it I've seen those areas myself many many of our people have visited land reform areas and the government has done some splendid work what about the question of taxes a lot of people in this country think that Italians do not pay and never intend to pay taxes do you have any comment to make on that well of course millions of Italians do pay taxes because otherwise the government could never never find the revenue with which to keep its own budget going perhaps the upper classes don't pay taxes as heavily as we do that's true that's true all through Europe as you know I mean Americans are the heaviest tax-paying people in the world but also it's a fact that more and more rich Italians well to do Italians are paying more and more taxes than they've ever paid before and there's a lot of tax reform going on too Mrs. Lewis how stable is the government Mario Schelber what about all those scandals we've been hearing about here we've shaken them well there were of course there's some very severe scandals there was a well-known Montesi case then recently there's been a really startling scandal called the Sotu scandal it concerned the really deplorable conduct one wouldn't mention it of course on the air of a communist called Sotu I see and is Sotu still in the communist party no he was promptly thrown out of the communist party when the scandal was revealed Mr. Ambassador what's the most important factor in American-Italian relations as you see it after two years over there economic aid our military strength the refugee program what the the main American-Italian relations are fundamentally very sound there's a long history of friendship and understanding between Italy and the United States I don't think that there's any political power or any situation that I can conceive of that would really damage Italian-American relations badly obviously the Italians do look to us as the world's strongest and richest and most friendly power for aid and they've received an enormous amount in the past would you say American prestige is very high in Italy well Mr. Tarkiani Ambassador Tarkiani when he left his post in Washington last month called at the White House and told President Eisenhower that in all the history of Italy Italian-American relations had never been better to partly to our ambassador in Rome well that's kind of you to say so do if to the ambassador let's say partly to the embassy I've got a wonderful team of men over there what about Trieste? well Trieste is a settled question and the fact one hears so little about it now shows that there was a good solution that has been accepted by both the Italian and the Yugoslav people goes to show you you know that you can avoid trouble and you can get things solved with patience and a spirit of mutual sacrifice as the Italians and the Yugoslavs showed in this very dangerous and troublesome question Mr. Luce diplomacy has been a male the most part of the time a lot of women are looking in at you tonight do you think there is a career in diplomacy for most women or for? oh I think there's a career in diplomacy for all able people who want to try to become diplomats come foreign service officers it isn't a question of whether they're men or women it's a question of if they're willing to work well you actually don't feel that there is a question whether men or women in other words you feel that a woman can negotiate can maneuver with the European politicians as well as a man can well you want to know whether a woman can negotiate and maneuver yes I do ask Mrs. Lasseur about that do you think Mrs. Ambassador that the Italians can make a really effective contribution to the western European Union and if they can how well I think they've already made a very extraordinary contribution in the last few months you do remember that they passed western European Union with a majority of 120 votes apart from the pro-common form parties there wasn't a single vote cast against it in the lower house in the camera of the Italian Parliament I think the Senate will pass it by the same overwhelming majority there isn't any question where the vast majority of Italian people stand they stand very firmly on our side well we don't have anything to fear in the next elections then Mrs. Lewis well no one knows when at this moment the next elections will be they are scheduled for 1958 every five years as you know they might come before so no one knows what the situation is at the time when they come you can't predict Mr. Lewis I was just recalling that the first time I met you was in 1940 up in the Maginot Line when you were gathering material for your book Europe in the Spring now would you go back to Europe this Spring what would you face and find there well certainly a Europe that is made an astonishing economic and I believe political recovery but also you'll find in Europe in the Spring American concerned about what's going to happen in Asia in the winter they will be deeply concerned that American arms American prestige shall have no setback in the Pacific because a blow to American prestige there would have repercussions on European politics do you think that our allies in Europe are really firmly behind us in the event that we should get in trouble in the East I think there's no question where the majority of Europeans want to stand they want to stand within the framework of western European and American civilization they don't want war who does I don't thank you very much Mrs. Ambassador we're very grateful to have you here tonight the opinions expressed on the launch in Chronoscope were those of the speakers the editorial board for this edition of the Lone Jean Chronoscope was Larry Lassur and John B. Oaks our distinguished guest was her Excellency Claire Booth-Luce United States Ambassador to Italy they say everyone notices the watch on your wrist to be well dressed every detail must conform including your watch now Lone Jean makes a watch to fill every need to suit every taste and styles and of models is almost unlimited for ladies, Lone Jean creates superb examples of the jewelers art exquisite in taste and finish perfect for every occasion for men, Lone Jean produces watches for every requirement watches for dress and sport Lone Jean automatic watches the most advanced in the world waterproof and shock resistant watches for rugged service Lone Jean Chronograph watches for sportsmen whether for a lady or for a gentleman is made to the unique standards of excellence which have won for Lone Jean 10 World Fair Grand Prizes 28 gold medals highest honors for accuracy in fields of precise timing and this statement is true throughout the world the Lone Jean watch on your wrist is just about the finest watch made anywhere in the world the watch of highest reputation and prestige yet surprisingly they own or proudly give a Lone Jean watch for as little as 70-150 Lone Jean the world's most honored watch the world's most honored gift premier product of the Lone Jean Wittner Watch Company since 1866 maker of watches of the highest character this is Frank Knight reminding you that Lone Jean and Wittner watches are sold and serviced from coast to coast by more than 4,000 leading jewelers who proudly display this emblem agency for Lone Jean Wittner Watchers at Lone Jean Wittner Jewelers see Atmos the perpetual motion clock created by Lecoultre Atmos runs without winding without electricity powered only by variations in the temperature of the atmosphere Atmos product of Lecoultre division of Lone Jean Wittner help fight polio give to the March of Dimes