 My pronouns are she, her, and I am zooming in from Muskogee territory in the heart of Indian country, Oklahoma. Hello, my name is Amber Ball, and I'm the Executive Director of In the Margin. It is my distinct pleasure and honor to welcome you to our featured Indigenous People's Day panel. As part of the new American Theater Festival presented by In the Margin, B-Street Theater, and the National Music Festival. As part of the new American Theater Festival presented by In the Margin, B-Street Theater, and the National New Play Network. So this is our first panel in a series of three sponsored by the Incredible HowlRound. We have two more panels this month, Power and Theater Coalition Building, Wednesday, October 20th, that features In the Margin's partner companies who help to make it possible. Then adaptation and new creation Thursday, October 21st, featuring some of the amazing featured playwrights. So, today, we are joined by some incredible Native women lead in the arts industry. We will be discussing their practices, methodologies, and of course, just amplifying and celebrating the work that continue to contribute to the arts world. So to start, Muriel, if you wouldn't mind introducing yourself, where you're zooming in from, pronouns, titles, organizations, affiliations. Okay, my name is Muriel Borst-Tarrant. I'm from the Kuna Rappahana Nations. My pronouns are she, her. I am the artistic director of Safe Harbors, New York City, which is the, the, which is the traditional territories of the head of the Shawnee, Muncie, Lenape, Chinacaca, Matinacaca, and Canarsis. Right now, I'm sitting in, which is the traditional territories of Lenny, Lenape land, which is New Jersey. Anything else? That's amazing. Thank you. Lafany, let's have you go next. Awesome. I'm on Sacramento, I'm in Sacramento, California right now, which I believe I texted that whose land are you on number and it's admission on. Hopefully I'm saying that correctly. I'm going to do my introduction. My name is Lafany Tani. My pronouns are she, her, and hers. I'm Black Indigenous. I'm Black and I'm Tongan and my tribes are Talukla, Murak and Klamat. Again, I'm on admission on land and I hope I'm pronouncing that right. Please correct me if any of you know how to correctly pronounce it. I'm currently an in the margin theater ensemble member. Yes. And I'm in Sacramento because I was in the opening play reading exhaustion. And it was so much fun. It was such a cool experience. And so I'm down here for longer. And I really like Sacramento, California in general. So I'm really happy to be here. I'm also a mentee at the American Influencer Council. I do a lot of digital creation. I'm a digital creation creator, an influencer and I like making art. And I'm just figuring out kind of like what art looks for me, like how I can bring my power and stand in my power through art and doing that. And I also just graduated from the University of Oregon and I double majored. I did Asian studies, focus in Korean. I did Indigenous race and ethnic studies. And I also did the minor. I think they have a whole PhD program now, but I did the minor in Native American studies. So we out here just graduated half depressed, but excited to learn and really excited to be on this panel with all of y'all. So I'm ready to learn and have some conversation. So thank you so much. Amazing, Jeanette, would you like to go next? Hello, I'm Jeanette Harrison, my family's on in Daga and I am. I spend most of my time these days on the lands of the coast of Miwok, but thanks to the pandemic I am hanging out on the lands of the Tongva. I am the artistic director of Altar Theater Ensemble. And I feel like I left out everything. I feel like this is a pop quiz that I just failed. And my pronouns are she or hers. Yeah, I was like coming in. Like, go ahead. Amazing. Yes. Thank you so much, Jeanette. To start the conversation, I would love to invite the audience to go to get to know each of you with the panelists better. I think a great way to start with just to be how did you enter the field of arts theater. What was your journey to where you are now for those of all generations who want to pursue the arts, as well like any family history or even legacies that also helped influence your direction. So it would be great to start with you again. Okay. Well, I grew up in theater, not only from my family's theater company, Spider Woman Theater. My mother was a touring actress and I went on tour with her with open theater and to Europe and I was very young. She was also a child performer, and I was in the field and I started around, sorry, professionally dancing around five, seven, you know, then I started working at an actress to round eight to 10, and I continue to perform until I was like 18, I took a break. And then I decided to go back to school. And so what I did was, I got my degree in theater from L IU, and it was there I really was able to develop what I was going to do now for my, for my future. You know, right now, what I'm working on you want me to know what I'm working on or just how did I get into it or is that what you're. Yeah, I come from New York City, which is sometimes very difficult because we have so many things going on in New York we have so many different ethnicities happening. And so, you know what happens is that we are always constantly fighting against the percentages and how do we get people, you know, how are we included in the. We are included in the conversation, even the EDI conversation, even we see you, you know, we really need to be in the conversation. And a lot of times, everybody's spoken about but us. And this is our land that we're on, right. I think things of inclusion are getting better, but let's hope it gets better than that. I served as a special assistant to the northern representative to the United Nations for over six years. And one of those things I really really learned there was not only politics but what is our right what is our human right as native peoples. Right. What is our cultural right. What does that mean, if you're going to exclude us it's a right for us to be at the table. And that's mostly a lot of my work, other than writing plays, I do a lot of talking to theaters. So we're not excluded from the conversation. And that's really what I'm trying to do all the time and it's not only me. There's other actors, there's other theater companies out there, but you know we can't just have one, you know what I mean. And then someone said to me, Well, you know you stop. You know you do that you know you're not going to get hired I'm like I don't care. I'm working too much. And I don't like to say that but I mean the reality is, there's not one, this is a movement this is a theater movement and this is how I see it, and it takes more than one person to do a theater movement. Right, you know, and so that's how I really really see it. Yes, well I think that also ties into the founding of safe harbors NYC of how that just started as a safe place I was also helping you would discuss that to just the founding of the company. Safe harbors started as a program at La Mama called safe harbors indigenous collective. We found out that indigenous was too wide a word, because there's a lot of international work there. And even though I did work at internationally, we needed, we had to break off and like they had to do international I still consult with them. There was an artist there. And then from there, we started to form safe harbors New York City, which is primarily primarily about North North American native peoples and how we look at theater, right. And it was founded originally by myself, and my husband, Kevin talent, and we both he was the managing director, he was the executive director managing director bookkeeper he took care of everything. He recently passed away. So what I had to do is I had to take over as I mean I was the artistic director but I had a collaborative force. And so we brought many different people on. So we could figure out what is it that we're going to do how we're going to go about it what is the vision, what is the vision not from a program not just from me and my husband, but what is that vision in theater, and where, where do we see ourselves 1020 years. You know, and I brought people and like yourself, Amber, who really had that who shared that vision with me. And I'm happy to be here with you. Jeanette kind of the same question to you. Starting back at how did you enter the fields arts of theater your journey. Family histories and legacies legacies also helped influence your direction. Well, I would say that theater was was more of a, an accident for me. I went to college completely convinced that I was going to be a journalist. But I got a work study job working at a award winning magazine and so I decided that first year I was not going to join the school paper I was just going to explore everything else that I could. And a buddy of mine in the dorm said, hey I'm stage managing the show you should come and be my ASM and I was like I have no idea what you're talking about but sure. Okay. And, and so I forgot to leave. And that's how that's how I got into theater. Amazing. I love that's this happy beautiful accident and this legacy behind it. I was also curious, if you could talk to us to about the founding of altered theater how that came to be the process and then kind of like where it is now etc. Yeah, okay. How did alter theater get started well, a bunch of us were kind of early in our careers, and we were hitting roadblocks. You know, alter theater got started not long after 911. And we, there were five of us who founded the company one of whom had a television career that was starting to go. Except she was, she was brown. She didn't pass like, I mean, I, I went to a casting session for native actors and they told me, you know, you should dye your hair blonde. Being being native was the way forward for me in my career and I was like, you know what, I can walk into any room I want take the earrings out and you know I can pass that's not that's that's not my thing here. That's not what I'm looking for that's not how I honor my family and how I want to do my work. And she suddenly went from going in for the lead roles and being the random wild card when everybody else in the room was blonde to being called in for terrorist wife terrorist sister. And we were also seeing that theater in the Bay Area which is where we mostly were was suddenly making very safe choices. And of all of that you know the bridge told more than doubled, and suddenly we were like let's just make make work on our own side of the bridge here this is ridiculous. So we purposely founded a company that was committed to artists that was committed to taking artistic risk that was about defying stereotypes. We, we were. We've always been at the forefront of using using color and casting in ways that challenge stereotypes rather than reinforce them and every single show. I've had a career as a casting director as well. And my whole philosophy is every single role. This is where we start every single role is open to everybody. If you as the director, or you as the playwright believe otherwise, you need to make the case to me. And that's where we start. And you know I mean it's it's no surprise that ultra theaters never produced August Wilson you know we we look for those plays that that, or we did we looked for those plays that have that ability to bring all of us together. You know that was in 2004 and as things have changed and we have been more vocal about the fact that no it's not just enough to tell other people stories we want more opportunities to tell our own stories. And for me that's been more of a journey, you know, and not growing up with with a lot of happy because my college was a very white theater program it didn't matter that the kids in it weren't necessarily all white but it was a student run program run by white theater professors with a very classical worldview and lens on all of the work that there was a Native American studies program but there was one professor and he was white, and he was just bemoaning the fact that in order to get anywhere in Native American studies these days you had to be native. It's like, um, okay, I think I'm dropping your class. Thank you. But yeah, so now it's it's in constantly trying to push the envelope. We challenge our fellow theater companies to do better. And then when they start doing better, we take it another step further because it's just not been enough. And I would say that the incremental change has been really exhausting. And I've now been in this field for 20 years, Altar Theater is 17 years old. And yet here we are and I'm looking and I can't wait to hear from from Amber and La Fonni Tani because you guys are like my hope for the native native artists who are coming up and I really hope you're having different experiences and my fear is that all the work that we have done, it's not been enough. And so I am now at a point where I'm like, burn it down. I'm done. Burn it down. Yeah, so so okay that's that's a few tangents away from the original question but that's kind of where Altar Theater got started out of a dissatisfaction with the status quo. And I think that is where we are. And where we are today is that we are very interested in telling stories by for and with authentic voices and with community. Oh, beautiful. Thank you for sharing, Jeanette. And La Fonni Tani the same question to you again how did you enter field arts of theater. What was your journey to where you are now for those up there, again, all generations who want to pursue the arts, as well as like any family history even legacies that also helped influence your direction. Yeah, first of all, I just like to say burn it down. I love that. I love that. But let's see. So I was born in Portland, Oregon, and I was raised by my mom and my, my grandmother and my kind of like my family mostly. So I was born and raised, Portland, Oregon in the city and then also really on like my reservation in Portland in Southern Oregon so back and forth between Portland and Southern Oregon. And so I feel like I came into the art world mostly through my mother, my mother is an artist. She took me to school with her, I would go to some of her classes she measured and like some of the same majors like native studies and ethnic studies at the time but now it's indigenous ethnic studies so I remember going to classes with her just watching her do her own, step into her own power and her own art and so I got to see that at an academic level, and then going back and forth from the city to the reservation I got to see just like her art with that and she even took me abroad to New Zealand to get her master's degree and so I got to see indigenous art and like, yeah, because I think we went to New Zealand because there wasn't that kind of indigenous presence on university campus and so we had to go to a whole indigenous area, not in the US so I'm trying to think if I'm like saying this. Yeah, so anyway, born and raised rural city, and I just remember being in the studio with my mom doing, watching her do her art she'd give me a canvas sometimes. I think in the city for me like I'd see like children's programs like oh Theater Brigade like during our theater but there was a lot of students of no color, like, and so it was just really like I'll say you want me to be a tree. I don't want to just be like a random tree or like say no that does not sound true to me but I remember like writing these stories and like it was always about my own experiences which like being a black indigenous woman in my experience can be very violent and so some of the topics. Like in first grade would be like oh yeah maybe not at that when you do show and tell or like I would tell stories. Ruraly on the reservation like I would it was during like the Verizon flip phone like had a really nice flip phone and I had a camera on it and it was just like, it was so great so I'd like take videos of us like jumping off the bridge into the water like us going to the store or like I was in my fight club so I just like we do different things and I would record them I knew like I touched in like my in my flip phone like I like telling stories and I like recording them even though at the time it was really weird is like why are you recording us just doing what we do and now there's like I was doing rescue out here. Doing that kind of stuff and so like on the rest I was like recording stuff. In the city I was trying to like write stories and I would like get the kind of classes and exposure to like academia and like school in the city that was not available on the reservation and so like going back and forth I was like, I would like bring those two together and I would like, you know, and so art for my mom city and reservation experiences like figuring out oh I like to record or I like to tell stories. I did a little bit of modeling. And then I feel like once I got to college, I kind of just come down and got more like, and like, I came in undecided, but I was in the native studies program as like my minor. And so there were a lot of classes where we would learn about playwrights we would watch native and indigenous like movies we watch smoke signals we watch like the movies that we had and stuff. And so I got to get into that and be like okay well what does native art look like at a collegiate level what does it look like for me on the red and the city what does it look like for me with my mom. So I just kind of started liking stuff and then my auntie Amber was like, helping me out with stuff and be like, yeah. And yeah so now I'm here in Sacramento California sorry I'm really trying to think about like I'm still like learning about my own story and how I've come to things that I really I'm starting to realize like oh I like doing that. It makes sense for me liking this now or like, yeah, but I never really thought even though I was around art I never really thought that there was a place for me or I never really thought like oh, most coming of age stories about young women are usually young white women and they can like talk back to their parents they can sneak out and go drink. And I was like I can't do those things one like the native population is heavily like hurt by a lot of the things it's just like I just didn't see myself and a lot of like media I didn't see myself in this space even though I was around art, but I'm here and I know I will get better at telling my story and more. But yeah, I think it was just like getting opportunities and like help from getting mentoring from family and being. Yeah, just like. Yes, well just affirming your storytelling to because like even the few projects that I've been with you on like the way you write a script for in a story together I'm like this is brilliant Lafonie. Because it is also transition to you being into like tick tock. Like you, that's what you're really doing right now to the Gen Z activists you're breaking down like the narrow state stereotypes, the native monolith, do you want to talk about that to like what your work on to talk. Yeah, most definitely. Um, so during the start of the pandemic, it was like, Oh, tick tocks up and I was like, and so like I got on tick tock I started making tick tock about like, chill up when Oregon which is like the res area my homeland. And I started making tick tocks like in my black indigenous lens, like what it means to be native what it means to be a woman what it means to be black or it needs to be indigenous Tongan. And like some of our issues on the rest that are happening like what's happening with the kind of tribes and how I experienced that for my own lens and like, I feel like the main thing that people think about Native Americans is like when we don't exist. We look like the lady on the land of lakes butter. Three were just like, just like all of these things and I just knew growing up like I was never like this. And like I'm like, I wanted to just show like what my lens looks like and like, with tick tock you have seven seconds for like to catch someone's full three seconds to just grab it and seven seconds to keep them with you and so I was just like what could I share. And it's really basic so I was like, Oh, what tribes am I from and I just like, boom, boom, boom, add some music add some text and like, people would see it but I didn't realize like it was something that would be helpful for people to visually see because visually we're usually in roles that don't protect this and don't help us with our narratives or our story or help us in our own power so like you know what if I can't get into an agency if I can't get into this movie what if I just create my own space for that. So, yeah, I just make mostly tick tocks about like tribal issues I try to advocate for my tribe, for myself and my own experiences because there's so many black native black indigenous people out there who don't get representation and most people don't even know that we exist or that that's a valid thing, just because of media portrayal of natives in general, it's very violent but yeah digital creation on tick tock is dope and like I love music you can add stuff. And I found a pretty cool creative community of like black indigenous indigenous and native creators and I'd like love to see what they post. Yeah, it's really cool and it's a big I feel like to talk to a big difference. From like, because like all virtual you get like all different kinds of people we can like talk about things because over the screen you can't like no one's going to shoot you if you talk about what you want to talk about, like necessarily over the screen like I could talk about this and like myself, but like in person out here, like, not just Sacramento but just like in person it's just like, it's harder to create and stand in your power because there is like those active violence that are very physical and in person so I found like a lot of creative freedom and like expression for myself, virtually, just because it feels safer, even though it's not. Yes, thank you for sharing. Actually kind of like leads us into the next part of the conversation I think I'd love to hear more from each of you. It's just diving into your works methodology and practices. Each of you has amazing careers and storytelling you need all have delved into theater and digital storytelling. So I was hoping you can share with us your methodology or approach telling and sharing story as well as the importance, maybe even specific projects. Well, you finished TV tales earlier this year and converted it to a short film with safe harbors NYC and the reflections and native voices festival. So this story follows your family as well as the history of Native American law and policy aligned with it. I was wondering, can you share with us the process of how you just start sharing a story, as well as the importance and relevance today of this story with the history shared and all these cycles I appear through our histories. I'm interested really is I'm interested in flawed people. And I think if you are a normal person you have no place in my place or on stage with me. Well, you don't. I love people who are comically flawed tragic tragically flawed. I forgot to neglect earlier that one of the, the main part of my work is making a safe place called safe harbors but making a safe place for you to correct that the mistake. If there is a mistake isn't really a mistake. Right. The mistake is can be something brilliant if you turn it around if you do it in a different way. And for my family, the spider woman methodology and technique of story weaving, you know, and I really do that sometimes. And then sometimes I just, when I want to get stories out from other people and then I write it down and I figure out that's going to be done but sometimes I just write, and I just write monologues first. And sometimes the model log turns into a scene. So then you take one thing of my log you put it somewhere so oh this is for something different. And that's what happened to details is because I had all of these, because there were certain things that people said to me after don't be the Indians a divine comedy pageant. They, a lot of different people said the next play you do is about your family in theater and your family in New York City, because really what I was talking about was troops. And I was talking about when the laughter is no longer at with you it's at you, and for the expense of a white audience right so the whole idea of don't be the Indians was, what does it mean to survive and all of this. What does it mean to how do you make money, how do you live, you know, and there was a lot of showbiz times that all of us had to do, our families had to do things to live, because we weren't allowed to practice our culture and practice our language and practice, you know, any of those things that was outlawed and a lot of people don't know that. Right. And they went into a room with us a lot of people and they wonder why we have this attitude we're like, no, this is our land, you know, land, you know we acknowledge where we are who we are what plans we are, where we're from, and our family history. And part of that family history for me is I grew up in Brooklyn, and a really urban experience when it wasn't all Italian neighborhood. And for many, many years people you know what happens in particularly in New York is that other people come here and they say oh well you know there's no Indians in New York so let's make up history. And I'm a believer like hey we're here what do you mean we weren't allowed to we can go to another we as I how about this how about me because I can't speak for anyone but myself. I can't go to another community and say, Oh, you know, this is the original land of so and so you need to honor them I can't do that you know that's against our ways. So that's the idea of talking about our community and where we're coming from in our community. Right. And what are these stories what are these different stories, TP tells itself is about crossing because my story can be your story your story could be my story but this is my particular story. Right. And nor does one native story represent all native people. And that's what people really don't understand I'm just telling my story. I'm talking about being an Indian who who calls herself an Indian with other Indians, you know, and doesn't like to be in the woods, right. I mean, and I've heard people say you need to get back down there. No, thank you. I'm done. I'm done with this. I live in Jersey now I could barely take Jersey I'm like I need New York. Yeah, I can't, I can't do this anymore. But you know if I have to go to the woods I'm going to vacation you know I know you know, you know, like Boca or something but I'm not you know if I have to go and do a religious practice I go back to those places that I know I have to do right but if you become this anomaly or that's the correct word on being an urban Indian, right, is everyone's always assuming you don't know anything, you know, I mean, same thing when you were telling about when I was in New York, just working as an actress. I, you know, I was told all kinds of things I was told you didn't look Indian enough. You shouldn't like you ever think about Oh, I have so many stories like let's you know you should look like this brunch was in I think I'm dating myself. And I did my hair dark and I did this curly thing and they were like you know you have to look God and I made my face like a light light light and I want this. And my husband looked at me he said are you sick. I said this is the new look. You know, I mean there was like all these different looks that you know you have to grease up your hair and you black it, you know it was like, because you're never going to be called, you know, in for a native part. And again, I couldn't perm my hair I can keep my hair short like this, you know, because native people don't have curly hair in their eyes they don't have short hair, right. So, and so that that trope continues, right, and also can it continues in body in body issues, and where we are even going as a country and how we see native people. You know, you know a lot of women are extremely sexualized, and you can go all the way back to boarding schools. Right, the boarding school is the core is the core, all of us who have been there are two generations, one generation boarding school, and some of us are not even that far. So that's what my play TV tells us about why that fear why that neuroses fear you know how we only stuck together and how it was embedded in us, you know to stay with your community don't let people in your house. You know, which I went through the other day I've let someone in my house and they find me for having it. So going back that you don't let people back in your house. But why is that why is that it doesn't just come from the air this mistrusting that we have for government is mistrusting that we have for institutions, we are true mistrust. Because these institutions and have really done things to us. You know, and we're seeing that again, you know we kind of see that with the vaccine to a lot of people are so scared of the vaccine. And because of those those those reasons, right, and coven what it did was it made us we had to stay home, we had to sit with ourselves and we had to think about what is it the core, what is the core of generations, right. And the thing for me was, it was boarding schools and people have been talking about this week, you know, it just got discovered for some reason, you know, I that makes the crazy, you know, okay, it's discovered that every day all of us are living with the reality that we come from a place that some of us don't speak our language because of boarding schools. So you had a whole house, everyone spoke their language and then you have a mother who didn't so you only could only understand and then you know little by little and how that was, you know, and you see this you see this many communities, you know, many different communities really my work is but how do you do it in a comic like right. And I always think of comedy, like, you know you have to serve a spaghetti enchilada, right, not spaghetti enchilada spinach enchilada, and you want to put some like a lot of cheese in it to make it unhealthy, but they're still spinach. That's how they get you to nutrition, you know, but you put some stuff in there to make it you know tasty and that's how I feel about comedy let's make it funny. It's not all funny but you know, I'm a little I would like to practice joy as we say all the time of our culture. Yes, a lot was taken away but the joy that we still are here. Right, we have these great voices we're being seen on television now we're doing you know we're really and you know, to me that is and I think we even have further to go. Really, really, really, you know, instead of, you know, how do we not typecast, you know, but that's a key, you know, how do we not typecast, if we want to do, you know, cat on the hot tin room, for example. You know, it's never written Maggie is white, never. So it's never written that it's a native that it's a non person of color family ipsin, maybe, you know, but it's never written that way, you know, so I think those things are very interesting and then from there you bring your kids, you know, why can't anti main be a boarding school survivor and saves your nephew I don't know, but something like that, you know, that's what that's kind of my work is taking things and putting it, making it funny but then really hard punching at the end. Yes, and it's as for joy to TP tails just was a ball and you did joy. Yeah. She was the most wonderful thing. You directed it. She never always keeps that out. Her just being they told me what to do. Morgan was our drama turned my job except for whatever you do amber don't trust Muriel because she will cut all her monologues down to five sentences. She'll say she doesn't like saying it. And she just takes she takes with that pen do not let her cut everything. Get back to work. Not catching me, you know, and then just we would call because it was during this pandemic we made this film, and my daughter was the director here was and then she would call up amber. And she'd say did you say that amber I said amber told me to do it this way and was like I never said that. Yeah, that's why I just, yeah, love about each of you too is just centering joy even in this conversation the joy that I've been so thank you for bringing that up. Jeanette, I want to turn over to you. You have such an extensive career and you're weaving your theatrical experience within film and TV. I wish I printed more than 20 new plays to world premiere productions a part of the groundbreaking ultra lab playwright residency program. I was hoping you would talk to us about your process of selection suiting work methodology for the program it's kind of a large question but it's just something that's so important and how you just supported all these playwrights. I love talking about ultra lab I am happy to talk about that. It's one of the things that I'm most excited about and it's also a lot easier for me not to be talking about myself well funny tiny I so identified with what you said about I'm still learning to tell my story. And, you know, one of the things that I've been grappling with I'm sorry tangent. But one of the things that I've been grappling with is realizing that I have learned to make myself and my story palatable for for people who come from a certain privilege background. And, you know, there are lots of things about myself that I don't share because the majority of the people around me don't get it and can't get it. And rather than it being something that leads to anything positive or you know greater understanding or anything it just, it puts up a barrier in a wall. And yet, it's just it's a struggle to because then you find your identity bifurcating and you're yourself with your family and with your community and you're somebody else in your professional spaces. So for me, I think at this point in my career I'm at a point where I don't I don't really care anymore. So like being myself and fully myself and all this, the spaces that I inhabit is something that I'm looking forward to for this, this next part of my personal journey so I just, I love you for naming that and being able to name that because it's taken me like 20 years just to be able to even say that. So big to alter lab. I would say that alter lab got started in part because at alter theater that the company has always really been about the creative growth of theater artists and supporting that and how do we do that and how do we make change in our community. By supporting artists. And what we, we started a commissioning program first, and we discovered that we weren't really supporting playwrights, we were supporting a play, we were supporting a product, and we wanted to be more about the process. So Todd London published this book and did a bunch of research called outrageous fortune the life and times in the new American play and he had conversations all over the country including a really great one in Berkeley California the Aurora theater that I was at and I was at and a whole bunch of Bay Area new play practitioners and playwrights and creators and producers were at. And so like the conversation ended officially they kicked us out of the theater and a whole group of us was like outside the door still like talking and talking and talking and talking and one by one people were peeling off and then finally there were five of us left. Like, I forget who said it but one of us said you know what let's just let's go out for lunch and let's continue the conversation. And so, three more people peeled away and it was just me and Octavio, and we essentially hammered out like what what do Bay Area playwrights need to truly be supported as artists. And so then I went out and I talked one on one with other Bay Area playwrights asking what do you need what barriers are you hitting. What can help propel you to the next stage of your career, and if you're art making. So one of those conversations I created. And, you know, usually at alter theater it's really the ensemble is creating things but this is something that I came up with and I rammed it down their throats and I just, I were doing this. And luckily everybody else was thoroughly on board but man that that first meeting when I proposed this and my heart was like beating so hard. There are three things it's meant to be a playwright centered and playwright empowered residency. And there are only three things that alter theater asks of it's of each playwright cohort. One is that they self identify a creative risk, or artistic challenge that they want to take with their work and it can be about product it can be about process it can be anything. I had one playwright who came in and said, it takes me three years to write a play. The fact that you require us to write a play in one year. That's my challenge, I have to make a serious change in my process to be able to accomplish this. The second part is that you have to support your fellow writers in in the residency and that includes holding them accountable to the challenges that they name. You have to write a new play over the course of the year. Everything else is up to the playwright and it's been really exciting I always shocked by how different each playwright cohort is. Some of them meet monthly, some of them bring in pages, some of them like meet quarterly for like really intensive weekends, some of them are like bring me drama turds, some of them are keep the drama turds out. And this most recent cohort was, which is the first time we're doing it on zoom, like one of the things we have a very active ensemble company and they all love new work and we have actors who are like, yes, let me come in and read some new pages. And so like we'll have like 10 15 new pages from a playwright will have actors come in and read them so that the playwrights can hear them out loud. And these playwrights are like, no I'm not ready for actors will just read them amongst ourselves just the playwrights can read it. And I even have one playwright who's like, it just makes me anxious to hear the word to hear the work out loud can you guys just read it ahead of time and then we can discuss the play. Cool. You know, I think that so many new work programs are really geared around the institution, and what what has somebody at the institution decided is a good way to develop and create new work. And they forget to check in with the artists. One of the things that our playwrights in our most recent altar lab this current cohort is meeting once a month on zoom for three hours. So we just had our monthly meeting a couple of days ago. And like three of our writers were like, man, I just cannot write at home. I wish I had a place to go to. This is the first cohort where I've had people say that and I don't know if that's a function of the pandemic, or, you know, if it's these particular writers, but, you know, I always ask, I always invite everybody to ask for what support they need, we're a teeny tiny company, brutally under resourced, but sometimes I have access to really unexpected things. And if I don't have access maybe I can create a partnership to get you access to that resource. So I always say, ask for whatever it is that you need. And, and so that's that's really the heart of the of the program. It's been incredibly diverse, more than two thirds of the writers are BIPOC 85% of writers have been women. And I think what's also really great is that the program proves that being invested in the artists in the process. Ultimately works. It results in really great work, because our plays and our playwrights are going on to other theaters. One of the first plays we produced the one of the first place we developed and then produced was picked up by Oregon Shakespeare Festival for their season. Larissa fast horse was twice commissioned with us before she went to playwrights horizons and became the first native, hopefully not the last, just the first native playwright produced off Broadway. So we have these success stories and more and more theaters are starting to look at our writers and wanting to build partnerships and asking for plays as opposed to me calling them up and say hey remember me, we met at that TCG conference and I know that your theater is interested in this and boy do I have a BIPOC writer for you to read. You know, and so it's, it's about that commitment to the artist, not just to the product and the commitment to the artist includes helping them get to wherever they next want to go. And, you know, using whatever resources and relationships I have and can develop to help them with that. And, and also it's a multi year thing too because where, you know, if I don't have relationships that can help them with their goal. They start with us before they write a single word so I have like a good year and a half to go develop those relationships and create those resources, knock on wood. And then the final thing that I'll just say about Alter Lab that I think is so special is that we produce 100% of our commissions and on average about 75% of the work that we develop. I dare any large regional theater company to match us. It's not about let's get a commission and give it to the BIPOC writer so we can show how, oh my God, how I was about to like tell tales about somebody forgetting that it wasn't just the four of us. But anyway, you know, yeah, yeah, if you are not producing the work that you are developing. Are you really supporting that writer. You know, I'm like my drop. I know also just affirming like the care that you provide for each playwright is so important in just doing that relationships. And I think that's such an important part of your methodology to which is how you care for the relationships with the artists your companies, and that's something that's truly valuable and important, especially in native community. So just celebrating that aspect of it too. I forgot to mention and shout out your tick tock when you're talking about it but Lofani's bio is listed in this whole series of all finds tick tock she has like thousands of followers throughout to mention that for your follow up. So to get to your methodology and process to you have this award winning short film, the bullet conch shot, it features an all black indigenous cast and ties into the settler colonial violence the Klamath Basin tribes are currently fighting with the water wars. So earlier you're kind of explaining some of that it's like how you approach story, but I was wondering if you would talk more about this film. How you did your methodology editing. It's just a beautiful short. If we can we'll like posted on our sites, too, because everyone needs it. Oh, we don't. Yeah, so earlier this year, March, it was right before my birthday, March, I was in a like native media like competition kind of like celebratory like we're all making art and so I decided I was like I want to make a short film I was already like developing an I remember you're helping me like come up with like a script and I like this is my perfect perfect opportunity to like make a short film. I want to add my siblings and so Loellick conch shot was like that work and so Loellick conch shot. Three words, I believe it's in my clickshaws is language of the people to climate language, and the well it conch shot means let's kill it. And I was like, yeah, I want to know well it comes because I'll work with our language sometimes because I'm like you know what I want to learn how to say snag I want to learn how to say this and that to make like the language more accessible because I'm like, Gen Z we have like all these like, I just feel like there's so many ways that we can use our language that's like accessible and like use it and I was like how about what was the something that I would want to say on the regular. Let's kill it so well it conch is the name of the piece. But let's see, talk about it a little well it conch shot is a short film. I would say it's like a red kids meets goonies extravaganza. It's that on my ancestral homelands and children Oregon, and I would say it's like we talked about a little bit in this. It's about like joy. And it's about me and my two other siblings on the oldest I have two little tuffy up to little siblings. And it's about black indigenous black indigenous joy it's about body sovereignty. It's about land back it's about having fun and like I think a lot of my process because I've always felt like between the city and between the rest between my identities of being black indigenous and like all these things it's always felt like oh it's like life's a test like I can't be wrong like I have to be this have to be this to be native. It's always like, I don't want to be wrong and so I would get so stressed about that and I just realized like let me just find the join this like I'm held wrong all the time. I like when I don't want to say the wrong things, everything wrong and more comes out. And so I was like, you know what I think my methodology is to just like do it and have fun. And if I'm wrong like be wrong in a great way. Um, and so I wanted to also like a part of like what I want to do as like an older sister is like the oldest child I want to like show my siblings like what we can do and I feel like living on my ancestral homelands and Southern Oregon. There's so much settler occupancy still there's so much agriculture that like rips and rapes the land and like we're still being logged in. All of these things are just happening to us like settler induced climate change is happening and our summers are just all smoking it's just like it's so much and I feel like from a young age being like indigenous black indigenous indigenous it's just like you're just thrust upon it it's like oh maybe the teacher will teach us like these things that you experience the violence right away and so like I experienced that growing up being like, wait, so I was like first grade I was like wait so why are we fighting for us them and wait people are trying to kill us wait it doesn't make sense like make it make sense. And so I struggled with that like understanding that concept of like, okay well people are always trying to kill us we're always under attack is under attack. It's always like fugitivity it feels like. And so I was like, you know what my siblings are probably going through the same struggle right now and trying to metabolize and trying to exist in this space where it's constantly just like nerves and anxiety and like the violence and you're just trying to be a kid and you know what I think a film about us doing like a red dot this was like before red dots had come out. So like I was like you know what I love goonies I was like, we need land back like this is a time where our fish are trauma which is like one of our ancestor fish is like in trouble and is in danger within like seven years could like die and like for our people we know once the fish die like we're there's like we're done. And so I was like this is the time for us to like take everything back to be hella radical hella rude to not be politically correct necessarily and to just like let's kill it so like, it goes through me and my siblings it's all in our in our language, I have like English subtitles. And we're just like, we see these cows and the cows are representation of like settler colonialism and violence against our bodies, and you visually like you'll see you see them on our land and next to our water and stuff. And you're like, and we're just like, you know what let's kill it. Well we're just like, let's kill it you know what because like it's just a conversation in our community like we go to school with all these agriculture kids and we're like constantly being taught by these teachers that we're not worth anything. And so I was like what if we could just be like no you shut up no like I'm going to like cows are cows can be cute they can also be very nasty but what would happen if we just, what if I just like, what if I just slapped it with like a fly swatter, and it exploded. And then I could like eat the the stuff that came off of it. And once the cows are gone, our water is it doesn't have feces in it, and then our fish could live, and then we're free. And I'll like what could that look like, what can I like manifest with my siblings in this short film to make them think like, what if we were free like what would we do would we like, would I kick stuff like what I like punch things are like what I go swimming in our water again so like, what would black indigenous joy and freedom look like what would it look like if we can breathe easy on our home land. What it looks like if we could just go run and like fall on something not that we don't do these things already but what would it look like to take that power back, and to show our community, which I feel like not to say my community scared anything but it's a scary environment like what would what would it look like if we were visually empowered because most of the if you look up like climate, just like anything like climate facing kind of area it's always just like, I feel like the narratives are so sad it's just like so like, so sad and I feel like a lot. I think the screen froze. We will hold for Wi-Fi connection. I don't know. Oh, you're back. Okay. I'm so sorry. My wife I'm so trash. We're on the edge of our seats were like, come back. Where did it like, where did I pause that you're describing the climate facing tribes the perception of like sadness like when it's just like this brilliance of reclamation for land back. Yeah, it's always like all the movies that I'll see or all the content on my child tribe is always like yeah. And then they died or like and then history ended here and you know what natives are just so sad and they're just so they're just on the little reds you know kicking cans and even come on cheese I don't like come on cheese necessarily but like just like all these things all these like trauma point stereotypes and even in college like I had to like not beg for money but I'd be like yeah this is my story and I always had to be like a like like sure yeah but like I'm also very bright and I think I don't know but I was just like all this trauma point so frustrating and I was like I'm not little I'm almost six feet tall. I like have a deep voice. I'm not like a girl like chin hair we out here just like I'm not this like little thing and I'm not, I'm not gentle sometimes I can be but I was just like, you know what it's time, we need to save our fish I need to like show my, I want to show my siblings I want to show our community that we're not little we're big we have power in a place that people make us feel powerless. Like if we want to explode explode a cow it might be absurd but like let's do it. And like that looks like I'm going to smear all this stuff on my face and I'm going to like throw money in the air. And so I want it I want the short film to expand into like a series of like just because even even making that short film on our homeland like people would walk by us who are like not our people. And they would just try to make us feel uncomfortable like we weren't supposed to be there like third get your dog before I kick it to space. Like, and so just like it was just so nice to be like here's a camera, not that we need a reason to be there but like we're making a movie. I am directing and I was like, no, we're still making it. So it was just cool to reclaim that space visually that way because it's always not us in charge of our narratives and it's always us not in charge of our bodies and what happens to it. And to also like lose something or just like my siblings know that we can do that. They know that we can explode, explode cows like we did it. And we can get free and that that can look a bunch of different ways and like you can have power through art. And it doesn't have to look like a certain thing it doesn't have to be like I'm painting through like you can paint through, but like there's also a place and it can be accessible. And so I was out there and we were like, throwing we had a bunch of like stuff in the yard, like my process for finding props which at the time I didn't know okay, I didn't know like a lot of like, you know words like words and so I was like you know what, we had this suitcase somewhere in the yard and I opened it I was like okay go grab me that toilet paper from the house, grab that weight that's just randomly in the yard is like 50 pounds. And then I got plushy toy from your thing, okay grab that stick the pine cone and then I want that boot just that one group who was just outside in the rain and the pool thing. And so I was just like, those are the props and like using the things around you I think really helped me to be true to myself. And yeah, it was. Yeah, that was kind of like my process and and I use iMovie to edit it, which was really accessible for me and I just posted on my YouTube channel and I'm working on a website. We're gonna make it. But yeah, I really, I didn't know that I like doing that kind of stuff until I made that and I kept watching it and siblings liked it and I posted on TikTok and then other people from the community side and like. I just thought it's cool because it's not we're not being like, I just like save my mom like save us like no more dams like please no longer please it's like give it let's kill it and give me my land back like I'm not going to buy it back even though I might have to start with buying my back, but like it's not a question. That's kind of my process will be. Yes, thank you for sharing it and just celebrating your creativity with it to like found objects props the incorporation of your family. I think that's so important and brilliant to because I don't know if nope but you already said that the next generation of storytellers that's up and that's really powerful to. So, yeah, celebrating your short film finally thank you for sharing it with us. Yeah, thank you. Great question. Let's see so I figured we could go ahead and wrap up the conversation. What I would love to hear from all of you. Well you have like upcoming projects productions what you have in the works for us to look forward to this anything that you want to share kind of as our closing closing question. Let's see Jeanette will start with you. I'm going to go on forever and ever about so I'm not sure you want to start with me. You want to be able to cut me off. I love the discussion of native joy, because that brings me to snag, which is the fill a play by Tara Moses, and we are doing a filmed version of it, and it is, we think the world's first Native American romantic and and it's, it's, we were, we were going to try to release that for in time for Valentine's Day but because of COVID the schedules moving back a little bit but it's just it's, it's so much fun there is no trauma I mean there's a little bit of a dark edge to it, because you know we're natives we have to, but it is funny and it is just so to be able to see beautiful native people just falling in love and like trying to make it work. It's just, it's powerful and it's healing, and I think it's just what we need right now. So that's what I'm working on. And then finally, oh my gosh so right about, so we talked a little bit about our journeys, and I've spent like 20 years now helping other people tell their stories. And for the first time in my professional career, I was about to produce a story that actually represented my family, and the conversations that we have around our dinner table, and like a month and a half before we were set to go into rehearsals for that COVID just close theaters down and so of all the shows to have to postpone my heart just broken to 10,000 pieces that that was the show. And, you know, we, we put it back in the season, we're going to do it outdoors. It's going to be our first show back with live audiences and it's scheduled for summer 2022 pure native by Vicki Ramirez. The third thing that I'll talk about is the arts learning project for native youth, which I think may be the most exciting thing that I've ever done. We were originally scheduled to take pure native we're going to produce it in the Bay Area and then take it on tour to different native reservations. And, you know, the res is of course, shut down COVID hello tour was canceled even before the production itself was finally, you know, postponed indefinitely. But at one point, one of our trial liaisons called us up and said hey, the res is shut down all the summer programs are non existent parents are struggling and they need something to do with their kids. As part of pure native we were going to do some workshops intergenerational workshops with the community. So that our trial liaisons said you know those those workshops, could you do something virtually with our kids. And we're like, yes, let me get back to you on that. So later we put together, we ran a week long monologue writing workshop and introduction to 3D storytelling with native kids from three different reservation communities. And there actually no we had five different reservation communities that first time, and it was just so rewarding the kids had a great time parents loved it. They asked us for more and so we have this whole program now and it culminated not culminated but it grew to our first in person program which was a five days sleep away acting camp on a college campus with students coming in from different communities. And it was just it was. It was so rewarding. And it's just so great to be working with our kids and in fact we'll find a tiny I there's one, one of our students I still want to talk to you because some of our students are working on Thacker Pass protect back or pass and trying to get uranium or not uranium. And so they're working not to happen on their res. And, yeah, we got to talk. And yeah, so anyway just, just native joy working with native kids and creating an environment where native kids are always aware that they belong that their stories matter that their voices matter and that there is a place for them in this industry. And just growing up, I didn't have that, you know, do you. I studied theater in college, I went looking for native plays and native playwrights, I didn't hear about spider woman theater collective until after I graduated from college, the only native play I read was by a white guy, and I was just like, This isn't my experience of being native with the I finally found a bill yellow role play like two years after I graduated. And that's just wrong. That is so wrong native kids shouldn't have to feel so invisible in this field. Come on, we're the original storytellers of this land and funders have got to get behind that too because hello, we just got turned down for a grant because they're like, native theater isn't traditional like, excuse me. Hello. No, no, no. So yeah so lots of native joy in my upcoming projects and hopefully they will all get fully funded. Yay. Sorry. No, I'm like, yes, celebrating native joy celebrations and thank you so much for your work of like stewarding the generations like that's beautiful thinking seven generations ahead so yes thank you to that for your closing thoughts. Ariel, we'll take it off to you now, love to hear about projects productions what you have in the works, and you like join celebrations to come like, yeah. Okay, so what I'm working on working on four major projects at this point. It's TP tails from the stube, where we're going to be doing at the New York theater workshop for our reflections of native voices festival that New York. And that we produce the state harbors produces. It's one of the only native theater festivals that's on off Broadway and off off Broadway we involve the mama theater and New York theater workshop in the beginning we had four theaters. And now we're trying to break it down into how do we do because of coven we learned a big lesson was that one person shows work really well. How do we produce our own work that we're interested in. And along with that is the artistic director directors labs that we are trying to establish we were able to establish it last year. This year we were in California, and we were able to talk about process and what does that mean, and the retreats and how we're able to breathe and how does that coincide with my second project, which is piece of ghost piece of ghost is an outdoor play. We just received the need for it. And it's a, it's a, it's, it's a, it's a phoenix, as I keep on calling it a phoenix ghost story, not a spirit story but it's a ghost story. And how do we tell our stories about death and keep it and talk about boarding schools but then how do we, you know, talk about joy there has to be like, there was always clowns in our society so we're thinking, you know, how do we do that and you know and it was the lot one of TP tales was one of my collaborative efforts with my husband and this is the last collaborative effort with my husband. And so it's four stories for directions for directors, one master director who pulls it all together. And we'll have the opportunity to bring in other younger, or not even younger emerging directors who want to go from acting play writing, and to really talk about directing and how it works for them. And so what happens if you look at the statistics with native directors in the United States, we're not even in that statistic. And so what happens a lot with a lot of these native playwrights is what I found during reflections of native voices, that the language doesn't have to teach native 101. When you were working with a native director. I don't, you know, you don't have to say so you know, a lot of times is an understanding and that starts with the cultural exhaustion that we get all of the time because it turns into cultural extraction to because a white director is getting a lot out of a native director has never dealt with this. So you're explaining land, you're explaining water, you're explaining colorisms you're explaining tribal politics you're explained you know you have to say sometimes to these directors, look, me and you get along. Okay, this ain't we are the world when you get into the room with 50 Indians you got to watch what you say, and they never listen to me, and I'm I just sit there and I go what I don't I can't help you. You know, so I felt that and I'm not saying that I believe that the cultural exhaustion is a big part of what we go through his native peoples, but also the other end here is. I want also native peoples to be able to direct other, you know, why do we only directing native things. We're always directing our stuff. Always, always, always, always. And they don't get pushed back well now they do. When the beginning they didn't. There was no pushback. And so if a native person directs a non native play, let's say, well we get pushed back that's where I think we're at right now. When we start that conversation. Because if theater is about going further and the creativity and fairness. We are not ever part of that fairness. We're actually with non Indians were playing, you know, Indian roles. And we know this, it's not like I'm making this up and I'm being some radical here. We know this, and we put up with it. Right, because at least there was something but now we have to get I believe we have to get out of that more than it's just something. And the younger generation where I feel a lot of times and I feel like like eugenette is that when they start, you know, I'll take a lot, right because I want the project to go further. I want, you know, and these are all people I train we're all in the room, and I'll bend over backwards I'll be diplomatic and they'll turn around and say, Oh no, you're rude. And you're like, Oh, good. Okay, we're going to fight. We're going to fight this fast but okay. But it happens because the younger generation, Amber's generation and my daughter's generation, what they're not do what they're doing is they're not taking it. And they're saying you're not going to abuse another Indian, while you're on my watch and someone we respect, or, and I see advice of versus so, and they're out fighting, you know, you know, because we're dealing with, I believe to is we're dealing with not a last ceiling, we are dealing with a buckskin ceiling that you can't even see through it's tied or whatever and you got to take a knife and rip it down and pull it open and go through and say we're here. I mean, there's no other way to do this right and then it's always oh you're so angry yes I'm angry. Yes I'm angry there's only 2% of directors in the United States doing native work why is that. Come on give me a break there's not enough for you come on give me a break. How come our statistics are so high for alcoholism and diabetes how come that what our statistics are, but we're so low with our statistics in general, come on. You know, and so that's really like get myself worked up, but that's where I am, you know, with these, you know, with the project so I think they're all interlaced and then the last project I have that me and Amber working on is called the center and center the center is set in the it's a it's a bit of a coming out story but it's loosely based on Hamlet, and it's about an Indian Center and all the dynamics that happens in the Indian Center. So there's a ghost in the Indian Center from the old executive director and the people who know all the business all who tell all the stories like the guards, if we have ever lived worked at an Indian Center, we know that the, the receptionist knows everything and the janitor. So, every day tell the story they're like well you'll never and then it comes in and how does it become that come of age story doesn't hit boarding schools as much. But it's about what is now to our theater piece which is feast of ghosts and this one is that's the last project that I'm doing. So I think that is it and then feast of ghosts we plan on doing a 2020 well we'll be working on it till 2024. Right is that what we're thinking 2024 will be that will be our real tour. I think COVID and everything but only just going to development because I want to get as many stories from many different people it is and believe me, feast of ghosts, I got the idea from games of New York. See that's what I'm saying you can get that idea anyway, and it's the last parting scene of the World Trade Center. And when they, they kill the butch the what's his name the boat. And Leonardo they leave these graves and they leave and you see New York changing and you see the grades get smaller and smaller and smaller. And then you see the World Trade Center. And what I always took it is, we are always on land that have these stories of varied people of the debt. What happens when those stories aren't told. And during COVID we found that it brought us all the way back to our, you know, our genocide. So we have to really talk about, I believe, and so that is that is what that's what I'm working on. I hope I didn't go so long. I'm not at all just celebrating all the works and celebrating the care that you're putting into these stories and histories and caring for like each individual person that you're bringing into these productions to so thank you so much for sharing to Mario. And we look forward to seeing it with safe harbors. Yeah. I'm a funny Tony, we would love to hear you too but any upcoming projects productions what you have in the works for us look forward to. Yeah, so I feel like in the past two weeks I kind of just entered the theater, the theater industry. Yes. But that was really cool and I just like found a lot of freedom in that because I just feel like I've often had to like people please and like not like just be very palatable and kind of just like learning who I am. And so I really enjoyed like that reading the opening of the new American Theater Festival being an exhaustion that was so cool. And so now I've got another opportunity to stay a little bit longer in Sacramento. It'll be in the play smart people. And so I'll be it'll be in November so I have like a part in there. I'm really excited. But I don't want to say too much yet, but I'll be in that and so I'm like really excited and learn my life. I have so much like there's so much terminology I don't know so I need to do that I need to like watch a lot of stuff. But I think in the upcoming I'm not sure specifically what like my plans are for like the upcoming year five years or anything I did have plans before the pandemic pandemic pandemic. I forget because I'm sick that everybody calls it different. But the panoramic the pandemic. But now my plans, my plans have completely changed but I think overall in the next few years, hopefully just this year. I'll be able to learn get more experience in the theater world, acting directing, just like all of it because I can smell art out here and like it's super cool. And just like seeing all these creatives just like standing in their power being powerful and saying no saying yes and like to hear from you all it's just so inspiring and I just like, I want to like keep doing stuff and keep learning. And like see what myself and these how I can exist in these spaces and how I want to and what that can look like and like push it even further because I know like this, we can create even more space and like I'm really interested to see like, I've changed a lot in the last two weeks and I want to like what what what what happened in a month. So I just, I really want to just like learn a lot, experience a lot be like this or like read lines for people or just like anything I think a lot of is needed for you right now and a lot of growth is to help other people with their creative like goals would be awesome just to like, yeah so I just like basically I wanted to live. I'd love to be alive. Um, yeah, but I just, I'm not sure what the future plans are but I'm going one day at a time and like as long as it's art as long as I'm with dope people which like I'm in it right now I think I manifested this like a month ago. Um, but yeah just to keep in the art keep with dope people and like keep building myself and keep like figuring out what my narrative is and like how. And I'm so blessed to be in this place with you all today because I learned so much today and like it's just dope to see this happening. Yeah, great things are coming. And just celebrating you look fine to them like everything that you've accomplished like, I don't know if you got to it but you also just got that writer's residency with illuminators for that like upcoming writers program to. Um, was that for your film. You said wait, wait. They put you on their page. They had your selfie on there. And they're like congratulations to the writers program. Oh my gosh, this was like last week. Well, they're doing great things. Yes, anti work, anti work. I don't know. Just celebrating your work Lafawne and we look forward to like watching your continued even storytelling on tiktok just so important like what you're adding to that sphere. You're resonating with so many people on many different platforms so congratulations for that work too. Thank you thank you. And thank you all again. Thank you all so much for joining this conversation. It was truly an honor and a privilege to learn from you all today. And thank you for the audience for joining us as well. You can find more information about these amazing individuals, their companies they represent and more in the panel descriptions on how around. In the margins new mayor computer festival continues through October 23. Oh wait, you know you have one more dimension. Really quick. Alter theater is announcing on indigenous people's day the opening of a new commission. It's a partnership with language, the language theater in Espanol. And it is for decolonization stories so it'll be released all over social media and whatnot so hopefully all will see it but yeah. That's amazing. I like specifically about supporting language revitalization. We're working on a commission with blossom Johnson and one of the things that came up was, you know, are we truly fluent in our languages even those who are lucky enough to speak their languages if we can't convey humor in our language and I'm like, hmm, how can theater and storytelling support native language revitalization and efforts in that way so I'm super excited about this. It's amazing. Thank you for sharing. Wait, yes. On that note everyone. Happy indigenous people's day. Everywhere. Let's go. Day is every day is every day. That's right. Thank you all so much. Bye bye. Thank you.