 President Mohammed Buhari has been urged to declare a state of emergency as Secure North and North is Bleeding protests take place in Abuja and Kanu. The all-progressive Congress government has set Nigeria 20 years backwards, says Governor Newsom Wike of River State. Well, this is plus politics. I am Mary Annacolle. A petition seeking a state of emergency in Sakoto, Zamfara, Katsina and other states in the Northwest has garnered 28,000 signatures on Change.org, even as the insecurity in the region continued to escalate. The petition, which was started by one al-Haslam called on President Mohammed Buhari to secure the Northern lives with the hashtag Secure North and hashtag North is Bleeding. As more people signed the petition, groups and individuals berated the federal government and the Department of State Services and the police had also dispersed and arrested protesters in Kanu and Abuja. The petition is asking that a state of emergency be immediately declared in Sakoto, Zamfara and Katsina states and even other states in the Northwest that have been besieged by armed violence and militant attacks. Joining us to discuss this further is Shehu Musa-Gabam, the National Secretary of the SDP and Samayla Musa, the Director of Strategy and Programmes Coalition of Northern groups. Thank you very much gentlemen for joining us. Thank you. Samayla, can you hear me? Great. I'm going to start with you. Looking at these protests, this is something that you hardly see coming from the North. What are your sentiments about the protests? I saw the pictures and some of the videos emerging from those protests both in Sakoto and in Abuja. As someone who works with the CNG who seems to be representing these Northern groups, what is your perspective? Yeah, you know, the point is this, right, what's going on in the Northwest right now, as we speak, it's not even mandatory. The best way to describe it is genocide, you know, so that if you have genocide, you know, in place in a particular section of the country, I think the issue of protests that you're seeing at this level is actually being template to a very large extent and even though the state apparatus are also moving it, you know, shutting it down. You don't want anybody to talk. You saw the threats that went down about a lady who tried to stage people to lead a protest in Kano the other day, how, you know, they invited her over and issued some kind of threat and made her, they had to back down from it, you know. So when the state is desperate, is more desperate to make sure that everyone is being gagged rather than addressing the issue, then it means Nigeria is actually at the breaks of collapse. And so, you know, the protests just say now, it's just a chance because at the end of the day when people don't have any other choice, may perhaps the protests will go to just face the government squarely, but you see, it's unfortunate if people try to address an issue, you, a government took place, you came on demand. Somalia, you there. Or solving security issues and corruption, I mean, and corruption. Are you here? Yes, I can hear you. Go ahead. Yes, we can hear you. I said, if a government comes into power, riding on the mantra of, you know, covering the security and covering corruption, and rather than even making sure that it remains as embedded, rather is escalated, both slogans are, you know, have been trashed in the garbage right now, as you speak. But what I found very unfortunate is that nobody is free to talk. The whole not, the whole Northern Nigeria has been gagged. You know, it's either people are afraid to talk or the ones who are passive to talk are being issued some threats, you know, and that's very, very unfortunate if this is actually happening under a Buhari's presidency. The same person who cried on national TV when, you know, he couldn't get it. He tried about, about the fourth time before he came to power, cried separately that, you know, and the basis of this cry is that there is people are actually suffering, people are getting killed every day. The only reason why I can take this government serious at this time is if the president is having some, is somewhere, somewhere as a result of sleeplessness, because of the killings going on, but rather what do we see, you know, it doesn't even show some care. Let me just button there. Let me, let me button there. I'm just curious, talking about being gagged. Recently, Daily Trust newspaper put up an editorial, a very damning one, by the way, about Mr. President and, you know, the fact that a loss is happening in the north, the president has not necessarily visited. And we know what happened to the editor of that newspaper and the response of the government towards, so if this editorial was something that the government didn't have to debunk, then why are we having these protests? I'm not asking you to answer that question, but then why do you presume that the North decided to come out in this number to protest? Because we hardly see it, we instead hear the elders speaking on this issue, but now we're seeing more and more young people. I mean, knowing that in this country, when you, if you decide to protest, even though it's not written anywhere in our law books, you seem to be clamped down upon as we saw what happened in Abuja the other day. Why did it seem to be a good idea to come out and protest? Because this kind of thing has never happened before in the history of this country. And like I said earlier, this is genocide. You understand? So this, this is quite unprecedented. It's not anything like what people ever experience ever, ever. To get it so really, it's not surprising. And you see, what you hear in the media, what you read in the media is perhaps just a fraction of what is going on there. You know, some of our people is from the coalition of Northern groups just came back from Somatou. You need to hear the testimonies coming out from that place. What is going on there is genocide. Some of these guys have taken over some villages over the air. You understand? They are ruling in those villages. They have taken over governance in some of these places. They, you know, they collect movies and all of that talk. It's nothing like what you're, what you're reading about in the media, really. It's, it's, it's something that has never happened in the history of this country. So that's why I mean, nobody will be surprised if people are actually coming out. That's quite a lot of people who are not coming out, but they are crying. If you understand how I'm sure you must have seen so many videos of women who are actually crying, talking about how they were being raped. Some of the women have sick for asylum, you know, in offices after they were released because they were raped. You know, I watched some of these videos, but I couldn't get back tears from my eyes. This is unfortunate. Now, let me go to the petition. I looked through that petition and some of the demands that were made on that petition, which has had at least 28,000 signatures so far. The protest has made demands. What one of those demands that stood out for me is that they're asking the Northern Elders, they're asking the Emirates to condemn all forms of violence, you know, that was taking place in their territory. And I'm wondering to myself, why are the leaders not speaking? Is it that the leaders are not speaking? Is it that the Emirates are tight lipped about this issue? Or is there some political on the turn to all of this? Yeah, the both. There is some political on the tone. There is the fear that when you come out to say anything, the government, you know, blacklist you, you know, may perceive you to be working with the opposition. And one thing they're forgetting, it's not about party. We're talking about human lives being taken on daily basis in their hundreds. You understand? So quite a lot of people are actually also afraid because their own security is also not guaranteed. I can tell you that the conspiracy going on right now, so many people are also afraid that speak against this carnage. And then maybe some, you know, state apparatus, we come after them in the name of banditry. And so nobody knows what I'm sorry. Just sorry. I need to comment that. Did you just put? Did you just insinuate that that there might be certain people going after those who are speaking up against this in the guise of banditry? But then they are state actors. Is this what you're insinuating? That is the fear. I'm telling you what the fear. Why would why would the states be why would the states be going under the guise of the same mayhem that is doubling its people? You don't need to ask these questions because if the government is more busy with gagging people rather than going after the problem itself, rather than solving the problem itself, then whatever conspiracy theories that come out from there is not surprising because I would assume that also personally at this time when the government should be busy doing, it's not even listening to who is talking. But rather, I'd love to see my president, you know, running off his lips and saying he hasn't slept in the past 48 hours. That's the way he's done it all, the clients. You understand? I want to see president judging out to say he needs some emergency treatment because he's not been able to sleep for like a week because I don't know how the president can actually sleep with his two eyes closed under this kind of tension that we're having, especially in the nutwicks. You understand? So there's so much fear that you don't even know because the people who are talking seems to be the focus and not decriminate themselves. Everybody is actually afraid for their lives. This is very interesting. But we're being joined by Shehu Musa Gabam. He's of the SDP. Mr. Gabam, it's interesting the claims that Samayla is making, they're very damning. But then let's go back to some of the things that these, the demands that these protesters are making. Another of the demands is that they're asking for a declaration of a state of emergency. And I'm wondering, how will it help the situation of things? This is not the first time we're hearing that, oh, the current state of emergency in the northeast or in the northwest, because of all that's happening there. But what solutions will it bring if it be done? Well, let me thank you first and foremost. And of course, I appreciate the contribution of Musa. What I'm going to say is not much far from what we have submitted. Look, no responsible government that understands its functions and responsibility, and are taken out of office to protect life and property, will sit down and allow non-state actors to challenge a democratically elected president, to challenge democratically elected national assembly, to challenge democratically elected government, to challenge democratically elected members of the state assembly that have all the constitutional powers, have all the authorities to make sure that lawlessness, criminality, carnage are being brought under control. In a situation where the state, this kind of crime and criminality, to grow beyond expectation, you expect all sorts of barbarism, cannibalism, and so on and so forth. There's a failure of states. The state has failed to act, to create a deterrence, to save lives and property of people in the community, even in these cities. We actually know where it is right now. Look at just what happened in Imo, the very disturbing pictures that we saw. People have phoned to something else, roasting fellow human beings. Look at all over the country. It's not just about the North West. The North West is so heightened right now because the kinds of killing, the kinds of murdering, maiming, raping, turning children into orphans, it's not acceptable. Nuttos here, anywhere in the world, it's not acceptable. And it cannot be acceptable. And for the state to use instrumental state to stop people from expressing their opinion, I think it's much to be desired. The responsibility of government is to protect protesters who are expressing themselves. The responsibility of government is to listen to people that are airing their views, that are agitating for changes, growing the attention of the government to act faster than they are acting. It's not about the expression of the will but practicing that will, demonstrating that will, that the government have the capacity to operate that way is what is like it. So what Mosa said is right. There's a genocide going on, there's an act of barbarism going on, there's a negligence of government going on, there's a failure of the National Assembly to stand very firm and ensure that lives are being protected. In the absence of doing that, the National Assembly have the instrument to checkmate the excesses of the executive and bring them to work. This is not happening. As you see, recently I saw the Nuttos speaker reacting that his town was attacked by people and then the bandits that were arrested were released by the police. This is coming from the deputy speaker of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. How do you deal with that? It's not just happening in one zone, it has saturated the entire Nigeria as a nation. But it's heightened in the Nuttos because people in the village are being wiped out, nobody is doing anything about it. Even if the students are doing something again, the significance of what they are doing is not sufficient to ignore it. Let me come in there quickly. I just want to, I know the Federal Government has no one on this show to speak on their behalf, so I'll play the devil's advocate here. When that Daily Trust publication came out, even though they had arrested the editor, the police, the Federal Government did come out with a rebuttal of sorts and they said that they were doing the best that they could to deal with this issue. And then there was a comment also made saying that this issue is not just peculiar to Nigeria that it was bedeviling the whole of Africa, including the Sahel region, but that we should not make it about the presidency and about this government. So does this problem that the south west sorry, the northwest and of course other parts of the country are experiencing this level of terrorism and banditry or whatever we want to call it should we be downplaying it in the way that the Federal Government is downplaying and if the government is saying they've done their best Mr. Gabbam, is their best good enough? Well, I I expect the Federal Government to put up a Muslim on defense but if you are saying that it's not peculiar to Nigeria it is Nigeria that are being affected and Nigeria have the right to speak about what they are going through we cannot speak about what America is going through. America are facing their own challenges but domestically here in Nigeria it is obvious it is factual it is visible, it is touchable for you to see the kind of agony for you to see how people are being turned into orphans wives being turned into what you call them, type husbands you can see how children are running shelter this is what we are saying the Federal Government, I know also have invested billions and billions to buy equipment to khanas, about 16 to khanas which is by any standard and also surveillance equipment but with the facilities available with the money they use to buy all these facilities what Nigeria expect is to see the minimization of the crime and criminality you cannot have no state actors to challenge an institution of states no matter how you want to defend I would never be part of any, any, any myth whatsoever or any conspiracy to undermine my country this is the only country I have the stability of Nigeria is my priority I don't want to see Nigeria being internally displaced or being a foreign refugee it doesn't make sense but here the Federal Government they need to go and see physically what the victims are going through the videos are all over how they are expressing themselves one of the women was crying she was red at times it has gone all over the world so yes, we have the responsibility to defend our government at all costs we have the responsibility to ensure that Nigeria as a nation is being defended but those that we elected from various constituencies of this country have the responsibility to do the needful and protect Nigeria have the responsibility to then we are given the responsibility to protect Nigeria to account for what they are doing so they must be done extraordinary so if they are calling for emergency in setting area if there will solve the problem let it be, the problem is that we want Nigeria to be secure we want citizens to be secure I cannot travel from here to Kaduna comfortably, Kaduna is one of the police roads in Nigeria every kilometer you will see a checkpoint but in the range of a week or so you will see perpetual blockage kidnapping, how do you expect that as a government we are not again with the government as a government but we are again the policy that have allowed non-state actors to challenge the stability of Nigeria okay, let me go back to Smila Smila, why do you suppose it has taken the government so long to figure out how to deal with this issue because I asked that question a few seconds ago if they are saying they have done their best how good is that best that the federal government claims to have done well it is simple if actually this is their best you get it so it is actually simple it is simple not because we have a president it is simple because we have a retired general there it is simple because the retired general this was not his first time being the president of this nation it was not like we tried anything out one of the things that was very prominent on his CV was that he has done it before so he knew where the problem is it is simple because he happens to be someone who the masses actually felt he was coming to actually wipe their tears and that is why it is simple and I have this very short message to the president the same state of emergency that was declared at the villa when Yusuf Bahari had an accident on the bike I wanted to see such a display it is not like the president is heartless unless we saw it on display when his own biological son had an accident the whole villa was in chaos everywhere was upside down so many people were giving queries why did you allow him in the first place to go on the bike I want to see such action I want to see such kind of passion for the president to realize that the whole of the country is constituency the whole of like it is children it will be treated like biological children just the same way it takes Yusuf Bahari and that is just my clear message and going forward I think at this structure the national assembly even though the rest of Yura seems to be dark the national assembly should wake up to their responsibilities they are accountable to their constituents and it is funny that some of these places where this carnage is worse you cannot see none of their legislatures are actually visible quite a lot of times except when their father or their cousins are being kidnapped it is unfortunate and we want them to also bear this at the back of their mind that whatever you do you are going to give account to our creator even if you feel Nigerians cannot ask you they can't ask you because they need to come down from their high voices they feel they don't owe us any explanation as to what is going on but there is someone that they are going to give an account to because that is why going forward even in 2020 people need to understand that leadership comes with a lot of responsibilities if you are not ready for it please don't present yourself and don't come and start wasting people's life for no reason that's just my simple message let me quickly take you back to Mr. Gaba there are arrests made during the protests especially the one in Abuja I am curious as to what the police and the security agencies reactions to these protests I always ask this because protests are supposed to be a democratic right in this country it is a right of every Nigerian but then we always see the full weight of our security agencies against the protesters as opposed to protecting the protesters from whomever might want to make it become violent but we saw a lot of arrests being done some people are of the opinion that the police was just doing its job and some people are saying it could have been better handled but what side of the divide are you on and why do you think whatever you think that's another shame it's painful because this same president participated in the protests he didn't just participate in the protests on the streets of Abuja right to the villa taking it to the dust heap of the incumbent president at the time and that's why it's most shameful this is unfortunate that we have gotten to a stage in Nigeria when the rest of the world have actually advanced we are taking like 20 years back to start dragging or treating people who are coming out to protest as just common criminals whereas the criminals the murderers are roaming the streets they're having meetings with governors having meetings with the security agencies yet nothing has been done so this is the height of it it's the height of insult when people feel you shouldn't express yourself you shouldn't come out must we all watch until all of us are led to the Golcota stop but is it really those people that you think it is or is it just the disposition of the police this is how they are naturally that whenever there's a protest I'm just wondering maybe the police does not understand that responsibility of every person under a democratic dispensation to protest even if they don't understand let's assume the police does not know what they are doing somebody is actually at the helm of affairs he has all these reports on daily basis and if he doesn't have it I think the age is not worthy to be there to still be there but he has this daily report and if they are not being partial I mean sometimes you can want to give an excuse of a zealousness of these guys but I mean somebody is getting the the reports on daily basis and if nothing is being done it means they are being backed but the same people are at the helm of affairs or even if not they are the one giving them these orders nobody must say anything that's very very important that Nigeria is actually being taken back so many years back well let me get back to Mr. Shu Gabba I want to note that the human rights lawyer Femi Faleno has demanded the immediate release of all the protesters especially the ones who were arrested in Abuja he is asking that they be released but I want to ask what response do you presume the North is expecting to get from this protest or from this federal government knowing this is the caveat knowing how our government always responds to issues such as this many examples the NSAS and many other protests and other issues that have called for the attention of this administration what response are you hoping to get and if you do not get it what's the next cause of action Memean and Babariz and that is going no one can tell you how this thing will turn into because in the absence of protecting your citizens and your citizens are extremely extremely vulnerable to gangsta and nothing is being happening you will expect Anaki to ensue nationwide you will expect that people would begin to defend themselves and their families at all costs and whatever that is available to them and this is not what we are praying for and that is why we are telling the federal government the bitter truth it is not as if we have anything against the federal government it is the government it is not in our interest to get the government to destabilize it is not anybody's interest for the government to destabilize but the government must also be a way of stabilizing its own administration the government must also find a policy short of standard in terms of performing their job and their responsibility the police we are talking about have taken a lot of tall order a lot of policemen have died along the line a lot of military personnel have died a lot of Nigerians included elected personnel have died so it is not about ABC it is about something that both entire country even northern Nigeria is going through what is going through and the policemen felt that they would not allow people to express themselves they were not carrying weapons they were not carrying knives they were not carrying anything they were only using their mouth to say no, Mr. President we elected you or even if we did not elected you you are the president of Nigeria we have the right to express ourselves we have the right to complain that we are being killed actually the action is not sufficient enough to show that the government is remorseful about what is going on for instance what happened in Sokoto State why is the coloration for some people to mislead the president and ask him to go for a book launch which is a ceremonial thing where people have been killed gone down and monitored gone to ashes how do you defend that? can that happen in America you expect Biden to go to any ceremonial occasion what are hard facts that the government must understand that it is with our heart there is no hatred there is no element of hatred but we love our country we love our citizens and the president was elected it's all in under the constitution to protect every land and property of every Nigeria so it's not just about not like I have said Boko Haram started from a state that has saturated everywhere he started from two or three states in the north west it has saturated the entire Nigeria Anaki meaning cannibalism is all over the place right now so the government must understand some of us there are raising our voice it's simply because we love the government we are not against the government we are not aiming for an but if the government do not manage what is going on okay well I want to say thank you very much okay quickly because we have to go okay now just exactly a year ago in Kaduna you know on our path from the coalition of northern groups we put up a security summit where we have retired DIGs retired military generals graduates both Christians and Muslims gathered in Aliwa house in Kaduna and you know how symbolic Aliwa house is to deliberate on the issue of insecurity and try to see which way forward the stakeholders came from all over the northern states and what we got at the end of it just on the morning morning just 20 minutes into that meeting he was numbering about 300 walked through the streets of Kaduna and stopped that Aliwa house to disperse dignitaries at that meeting and it was very obvious that these are state apparatus in display how is it obvious how is it obvious whether we are saying that they are officers or officials or they were said by the government how do you say that it's obvious do you know the honest part the only security agency that was not present at that place was just the military the DSS was there the SIP was there the police were there none of them could say a word why? because none of them was arrested people were wounded some of the military had to escape leaving their phones behind and all of that no single arrest was made how else do you explain this we also better our intelligence some of the people who were there say oh I know this person and that evening they started finding her from them and they say oh some persons actually give them money and they don't know who are the people who are in the meetings there none of them are present there so jobless there are sponsors that cannot be made apart from the state it's unfortunate we can only hope that something good comes out of this but I want to say thank you Shehul Moussa Gabam is the national secretary of the social democratic party and Samayla Moussa is the director of strategy and programs coalition of northern groups thank you so much gentlemen for having this conversation with me thank you alright well thank you all for staying with us coming up on plus politics governor of the river states accuses the ABC government of setting Nigeria 20 years backwards we'll talk about it after this break