 he's a hundred and seventeen and a hundred and seventeen in his career that's the definition of average but it's not fair to say he's one seventeen and one seventeen because it's not venus williams against serena williams it's the new york giants and the ten of the people on the on the field when he's actually playing the eleven guys on the other side he can't do it all himself and i've heard the argument well if you're great you can lift people up when when he actually had a decent team around him you know what his record was or the teams record was sixty nine and fifty one that's really good now to get to five hundred from sixty nine and fifty one you know what happened the giants have been bereft in their duty to build a team around them the offensive line has been awful they've been terrible and elie matting has not been great but boy it's hard to be great if you're in fact not surrounded by great person uh... it's funny chris can't he was saying on uh... d p h o can't in rutherford today said in his entire time as a giant entire time named me one guy on the offensive side of the ball that the giants provided him that was a hall of famer not one the closest the best player ever played with was practical burst he said good players take he was a good player not all of famer has yet a uh... an offensive linemen that's all a favor what he's done with the amount of talent around him with a giant some not sufficiently built the team that serves his needs i think he's all a favor and uh... now i will tell you this and this is what makes it complicated if you took those two super bowl champions out of the equation he's not even in the discussion to be a hall of famer but you don't take those out you keep those in and he won the mvp in both of those so those are a big part of her and her back she'd be my uncle as michael k would say you can't take the rings away and take the rings away and he wasn't a passenger in those games he's the mvp mvp although justin tuck could have been the mvp but you you can think of two moments in each super bowl where you're like wow obviously the throw when he escapes the sack and the throw to manningham and that second super bowl so it's not like he was a passenger just kind of hung around the defense got him the ball uh... in a short field and didn't do anything he did things he's the only quarterback to drive the field when the touchdown was needed to win a super bowl or the first one anyway you know i don't want to hear about the record michael because you just outlined it's difficult to put it all on him because it's not a picture and even in pitching in baseball michael we talk about how wins and losses aren't worth anything because a lot of things happen that are beyond the pitchers control good point do you realize that if he just walked away after the twenty sixteen season they went eleven and five that year you started to see that he wasn't the same quarterback he was thirty five going to be turning thirty six years old they go to the playoffs they lose to the packers let's just say decided at thirty five i'm done because look what happened in twenty seventeen the ill-fated uh... gino smith game and then twenty eighteen twenty nineteen obviously the team wasn't very good after twenty sixteen the giants as a team that would win in the games that in which he played seventeen games under five hundred they were three and twelve in the games he started in twenty seventeen you can't tell me they were three and twelve because of the line and they were three and twelve because they were an awful team the next year here five eleven with a five eleven because of the light was a contributor of course he was on the team but did you go boy that team would have been eleven and five but because elie manning was the quarterback they finished five eleven they ended up losing three of the four games that he played on an awful giant team this year so don't give you the record because if you walked away after twenty sixteen and then the team completely fell apart after that he'd be seventeen games over five hundred we'd be talking about the record