 I would like to ask you guys to start the session today by asking what was it about yesterday that was magical? What do you remember from yesterday that still barking at you when you were trying to sleep last night? What was it that was still ringing in your ears at the time from yesterday's session? Mr. Mokhtar, can we start with you please? Well, I think the things that struck me from yesterday were humanity, humility, the courage to be yourself and the ability to do good, you know, whether you stand on the shoulders of a great man or whether you stand at the surface, the ability to change. That's it, that's it, alright? I was here at the opening. Yes. I had to leave, so I missed the transfer and transit to the last session which I regretted but I hope we get a video of that. But I was here when Nipun... Yes. ...gives speech and gives talk and the wars. What I, my key takeaways, I think the idea or the body of knowledge about leadership that we know today and going forward is taking a drastic turn, is changing from what we know it for. And I think Rajiv alluded to it a little bit when you talk about looking at talents we look at the first phase, the second phase, the phase now is the fourth phase where before we take a look at IQ, take a look at, you know, the past performance and past achievements. Now we realize that that might not work that well. Now, people, if you had the opportunity to read an article in the Hubble Business Review in September last year, there's an article that talks about talent spotting the 21st century. They talk about potential instead of just looking at it. And of course, the idea about leadership itself talking about, you know, only the strong survive and survival of the people and all that. The body of knowledge that we have for the past 10,000 years where, you know, we need to get the strongest, the fastest, the tallest, the most handsome guy or the most beautiful Cleopatra. Now that's changing already. Right. It's about having humility to deal with the people and getting a group of people to work together towards the same common cause, to get them excited, motivated and to learn and to develop themselves together moving towards the same direction. And I think that's the dynamic of where we're going. And of course, we talk about humility and gift giving. We talk about that. And that's a completely change of mindset from what we already have. And it's a bit, it's not very comforting but because we're so used to something and changing change is not an easy thing. But it's also an opportunity as well to change the world for the better. And we have the opportunity to do it right now from here on out. Thank you. Rajiv, how about you? You know, it's very difficult for me to pick one or two moments from yesterday. Yesterday was magical overall for me. And if there was one thing I would pick that really came home for me yesterday was this. Once you get clear about your calling, once you get clear about how you're going to make a small difference in the world, then the whole definition of what success is changes. The fact that Nipun lives in a Buddhist monastery in California and he and his wife decided not to have children so they don't let the eye enter their minds, our bodies at all. You know, he doesn't need money. She doesn't need money. And success is defined in hugs and smiles rather than in terms of, you know, the size of my car and my office. Wow. And then a very successful surgeon who has delivered 14,000 babies. She was by far my favorite yesterday. 14,000 babies, was it? 40? 40? 14,000. There she is. 14,000. There she is. It was looking for you. And then decides to completely change her life to do what she's doing now. Wow. Wow. And what's the definition of success anymore? So that's what it was for me. Were there any parts of yesterday's session that made sense to you Rajiv? I'm going to start with you. But you went, now there's a bit of a stretch for me. Let me think on that one for a little bit. Were there any parts of yesterday that was like that for you personally? Well, I asked him. I don't know if there was such a moment, but when I interviewed Was for our leaders room later, I asked him, you know, were there any times when you felt like giving up, when it was the struggle years of Apple, and when it was really tough, and you thought that it's not going to work. And he said, never. He said, we had made so much money with the first couple of computers that we had so many billions in the bank account that we were allowed to make mistakes for 10 years. And I said, wow, now that would be a fun place to be. You have $10 billion in your bank account, and you can then go 10 years and make mistakes after mistakes, whether it was the first Mac, or whether it was the Lisa computer that didn't work. That would be a nice place to be. And that kind of almost sounded unrealistic to me. Dato, sorry. The little time that you had with us yesterday, but you could take your thoughts back to the evening session. We had dinner yesterday also. Were there any parts that you were, okay, that sounds good to me, but I'm going to put that on the back shelf for a little bit for now. I'm going to come back to it later. Were there any parts of yesterday that was like that for you? I was privileged to have given the opportunity to spend some time with the speakers last night at dinner. And thanks to these guys, Nipun also gave a little talk, and the whole idea, the whole concept of gift-giving, that is completely antithesis to what we know human interests would like to do. That's right. And that's a completely change of mindset. I'm not sure whether... I don't know whether it's sustainable. We all like to be surplus. We all like to do things for the greater good. We all like to see people do good things to one another, but yet sometimes we see the opposite happening around us. And also, at the same time, to be able to sustain that mindset and that behavior over a long period of time, seeing what's happening around you is a challenge. The perseverance, right? The perseverance part of it. But perhaps with the right amount of momentum and help around us, maybe we can make it a reality. I don't know. I do have an answer. Sir Mukta. I think my reflection would be, I mean, yesterday was just a series of very inspirational moments where, you know, as you witness through the eyes of those who've lived a life, you know, what the challenges are and how they use those challenges effectively to shape and refine and define their own thinking. They found courage within their convictions. They found the power to do good in very difficult circumstances. But above all, you know, life is about giving, not just receiving. Yeah. And I think that's a sentiment that, you know, rings true. And I think for most of us who live a life where, you know, we're busy on the corporate treadmill, the opportunities to give and give back beyond the corporate life that you live, to give to a community, to give to a good cause, to give time and give yourself, that was a very powerful takeaway. And I think that's, you know, how you find fulfillment. I think that's the other side of the equation, which is what is leadership all about? You know, is leadership about achieving a defined set of aims or objectives? Or is it really about helping people live their dreams? Is it about a group of people doing good, more than just the corporate good? In your, I'm going to push back a little bit and force you guys to be a bit more personal with us today as I gave, as I warned you in the room back room just now. Can you be a bit more personal and share with us in your personal progression to where you are right now? What are some of the learnings that you've discovered about? I think the most difficult person to lead ever, ever, is oneself. So how did you manage to do that? Rather nicely, I would say. And what are some of the learnings that you could share with us in this room today? Who wants to go first? I'll kick off then. They were having this in the back room just now. All the time, so. The two captains, let them decide. Well, I think, look, I mean, I think everybody has a very particular and unique experience to share with regard to their own journey, and I'm sure all of us will recognize the many challenges that we face. I suppose mine, the one that has held throughout my own life, was growing up as an immigrant child in the UK, because I moved to the UK when I was seven. And the UK is a magnificent country, but at that particular time, it probably wasn't the most open society and the most caring society that was around. And I think as an immigrant child, you have so many challenges, the challenges of language, the challenges of culture, just the ability to be assimilated. And I think those were very formative experiences because you learn the hard way. You learn about rejection. You learn about not being part of the in-crowd. You have to find a means of acceptance. And for me, that acceptance came in, actually, the strangest of ways. It actually came firstly through sport, because actually on a sporting field. Don't tell me you play rugby often. Oh, surprisingly. Okay. But, you know, in a rugby field, it's very interesting whether you're big or you're small, you know, you will face your fears, because the big man is afraid of being outrun by the small man. And the small man is afraid of being crushed by the big man. Okay? But neither the big man or the small man can stand still. Okay? They learn to move. You learn to win together as a team. You learn to lose together as a team. You learn to shout instructions to each other and to follow. And actually at the end of the day, you're the collective outcome of your collective efforts. And those were powerful lessons. I think the other thing that taught me was communication. That actually never mind having the greatest ideals and aspirations in your life. But whether you could communicate or not was critical, because you were only as good as or as bad as the weakest or the slowest member of your team. And, you know, look out for, you know, that link, because that's the link that you all need to support. And I think those lessons in my life kind of taught me the importance of being very clear about what you want to do, you know, and be very passionate. Because I don't think you can ever fulfill your dreams if you're not passionate. And I don't think you can lead people if you don't really believe yourself that what you're asking other people to do, you've either done yourself or can do yourself. And conviction really comes from a personal belief that you're heading in the right direction and for the right reasons. And so those years for me were tough years. Years in which there was a lot of pain. But actually, I think now I look back and I think, wow, I'm so glad that that came. And I'm so glad that it came so early in life. Because the earlier you learn those lessons in life, the quicker you as a human being adapt. And I think it taught me the fact that you can never stand still. That life is actually by definition largely unequal. It's you who will make it equal. But you've got to have that determination and that passion to succeed. I think the only other thing I would observe to you is so many great things in life come from having great people around you in life. And my father probably in my own world. That would be my next question. What are some of those people who helped you along? Well, I think my father, you know, was just one of these immensely patient people. You know, who in a few words could touch the lives of many people and gave me an endless enthusiasm to believe in the art of the possible. You know, that you will achieve what you believe you can achieve. Not what other people tell you can achieve. So go and fight for your dream and go and achieve what you can and show what you can do. And I think, you know, whatever I've done in life, I mean, I've always kind of thought, you know, actually a lot of it is down to the wisdom that your parents can bestow upon you and if you're fortunate enough to come from a good home, you're fortunate enough to have good parents, you're fortunate to have a magnificent partner as a wife and as children. You're very lucky. You've got foundations that allow you to grow and it's those people that I think have shaped my dimensions. Even in the quietest of moments, actually even you felt terribly challenged, especially when trying to overcome a huge obstacle, either when you were a child or especially now when you're a banker. What are some of the things that you do? Who are some of the people that you still go to talk to to get, because this is the energy for energy from the continuum of this pursuit? I think energy comes in many sources from many people. I don't think there's just one source of energy. I think that in jobs like mine, actually the greatest exhilaration is actually to get out of your office and go and speak to people who are in the front line. I love going to my branches, I love talking to my people who are actually doing the jobs. Because of course when I talk to my management, everything is fantastic, naturally. Of course, that is as it should be. When I talk to my boss, I'm sure I represent exactly the same thing. But actually it's talking to your people that gives you the energy and the motivation to really realize what's going on. That's right. And I think you've got to find ways of, as I call it, earthing yourself. Go and find a reality. I think the other thing out of yesterday that particularly resonated was go and find a good course. Go and find something where you are away from your corporate wardrobe. So go and volunteer. Go and spend some time and live the real world that people live. Because I do think, and in my case certainly, I think we live a charmed existence. You know, you're in many ways in a privileged part of society. How many times do you really touch the real world? People who don't have what you have and people who have real issues and needs. And so I find my energy really not so much from the textbook or not so much with all due respect from conferences or panels. But it's much more about getting in touch with the real people in the world and finding things that are important. So my father called me one day out of the blue as he normally does. And he said, Muhtara, I need some money. I said, of course. What do you want money for? He said, well, trees. Trees? Really? Trees. He said, well, what you don't realize is I'm about to plant some trees in areas where there are no trees. Okay. So about a year later, I went to see his tree project and he'd taken a road where there are no trees and planted trees all the way along. And he said, I want you to understand that on this roadway there are people who need places to sit in the shade, birds who need branches to sing, and those songs are songs of prayers for the good of all people who are traveling on this road. I thought, now that's interesting. Now when he rings, I'd never ask him. Yeah? And so people do good in their own ways. People, you know, spend money, spend time. And I think if you're going to get energy, you've got to find sources of energy that are not just in your own domain. You've got to find sources of energy and passion. And going back to yesterday, that was why it was just terrific listening to the speakers yesterday, because the inspiration that they provide, that's the energy. That's the energy that I think can help, you know, corporate leaders shape a future for themselves. I'm going to change the meaning of your designation. CEO to me is Chief Energy Officer. That's what you are. And I can see the fruit has not fallen very far from the tree. Yeah. Is your father still around? Oh yes, very much so. I will warm regards to him then. Yes. Lato, Farid, your turn, Lato. I'll have to be listening to him. I'm sure you are. He pulls that trick on us all the time, but he's got loads of stories to share. This is not my first experience with Lato. He's an impeccable speaker. So I'm going to see some of that coming through right now. Be a bit more personal with us today, sir. Yeah, first of all, I got to apologize because, you know, I'm not old enough, neither am I successful enough to share my experience to inspire people. My personal experience is pretty mundane in a way. I grew up in a poor family. I learned to swim in the river, you know, by guides in the paddy fields and all that kind of stuff. And I was fortunate enough to have a parent that focused on education for the children and I managed to do relatively well in school. So, you know, I had brothers who did well in school as well and, you know, I played sports. I represented school in sports and I still live in a world where, you know, for the past 10,000 years, the tallest guy, you know, would be leaders or, you know, the loudest. I wasn't the loudest, by the way. So, you know, I started working in an investment bank and, you know, I like doing it because, you know, the financial engineering part of it, creating value almost out of nothing, that appealed to me for a few years and until, okay, no disrespect to investment bankers in this room, but after a while, I thought, I'm not creating anything. So, I wanted to do something more and again, through the part of life, I met people getting involved in projects and I was on the board of a few companies. I was on the board of UAM and Bangalipo and Exarcomindo in Indonesia and I found that those kind of experiences are more interesting. The opportunity to create an environment where people, ordinary people can become extraordinary, that's something that appeals to me. Not for myself, but to see that happen and to create that kind of environment. Of course. And, you know, I thought it's more satisfying than, you know, doing investment banking deals. So, I did a little bit of that. I experienced some of that in some of my previous occupation and therefore I kept looking for that again and, you know, I think it's fortunate for me that I found that in Maybank, a group of 47,000 Maybankers who are very, very passionate about the bank and about the community that they are in. My personal experience, my personal challenge because I didn't have the kind of challenges that people talk about and I always look for inspiration on other people's lives and see what they have done. Obviously, we talked, we heard about Mandela, we heard about Gandhi and obviously we can find those life experiences in the development of public and I do a lot of that, searching for that experience and sharing with my colleagues. You know, Shackleton is one of them. The perseverance of one person to bring, you know, all of these colleagues to safety when they were in South Pole and that is something that, you know, to create the ability to persevere in a very difficult environment, you know, it's very inspiring. But at the same time, my personal challenge has always been, you know, I'm a... this is a small scale, by the way. Rajiv talked about, you know, using psychometrics and my breaks, I am an ISTJ, I'm a huge, huge introvert. So being up here is not very comfortable for me. You know, speaking in front of public is not very comfortable. You know, I had to do a lot of things to adjust myself to become comfortable. People think I'm an extrovert, far from it. I prefer to stay in the room and read a book. You know, but, you know, I know the requirement of it, being a CEO in this case of Maybank, I enjoy engaging my colleagues and therefore I know the task that I'm up to, which is to inspire people and I try to do as much as I can. The story of my life experience, the story that I've seen that has been happening around me. But most of all, it's the mission. You know, I... in Maybank, a few years ago, five years ago to be exact, we decided that we want to humanize financial services. And by the way, this is not from me, this is not from Wahid, this is not from any of the leaders. It came from the 47,000 Maybankers. They want to change the mission of the bank because we saw the things that are not right in the world involving banks. Banks are not trusted especially in the western part of the world and banks have become so transactional. We see you as dollars and cents instead of seeing you as a human being. You know, we see you as an opportunity to make money from instead of saying let me share your burden and figure this out together. So these are the things that motivates Maybankers and we quickly excellent, let's pick it up and run with it. So humanizing financial services therefore is our mission and we try to put in the balance core card, how do we quantify this mission statement that fire up the belly of 47,000 Maybankers around the world while making money. So, you know, that's the energy that's been helping me. And of course the energy of the 47,000 Maybankers that I have together with me and of course my colleagues I'm very fortunate to have colleagues Nora, Moni, these guys will check each other make sure that we have that check and balance to see that we stay in the right path when it comes to mission, what we're doing at the bank. So I'm very fortunate to be here. Rajiv, you too? Well, what can I say after all that has been said, other than the fact that you know I've realized that finding your calling is not something that happens out of the blue. One day you get a revelation from God that this is what you were sent to the world for. Life's a journey and over time if you pay attention to day-to-day experiences everybody has experiences. Every day, every second, every minute that we live on this earth we're having some experience. Right now we're experiencing the company of the people in this room. So everybody gets experiences. Fewer people do the second part which is reflection based on that experience. What was my experience like today? And what is my inner voice telling me about what that meant? And if we live life that way which is experience plus reflection when you land on your calling in life and when you land, you really land and then it's a lot of fun. It's not work anymore, then it's just fun, fun, fun. So my life is now just fun, fun, fun. Ha! Okay. Wow. I was thinking about the Beatles and he mentioned fun, fun, fun. It's the Beach Boys all over again, the 60s. Anyway, Mr. Mokta, how do you improve the young age that you are at now and the level that you have achieved so far? How do you learn? What do you do to, I mean you run a fantastic organization. Where do you go to, aside from going to conferences held by ICLIF, what do you do to improve your learnings? I think for me, I mean, learning is an everyday experience. You learn everything. I mean, there is a certain anatomical fact. God did give us two ears and one mouth. Perhaps he was also trying to give us a proportion of listening to talking. And if you listen you learn a great deal from many people. And I don't think from my own personal journey I think listen very, very hard to what people are saying or what they're trying to say. I have to say it's challenging in societies which are hierarchical by nature. So people sometimes feel constrained in what they can say to somebody senior. But you know what they're trying to convey and it's important to be able to relate to that. I think learning comes sometimes and I'm very fortunate that I have, however, 32 years had the privilege of working in one institution. Probably because I was too useless to work anywhere else. But in that one institution we are a global institution and there are so many people to reach out to. Because the one thing I've come to realize is that there are very few experiences in life that are truly unique. That actually many business issues have either been faced by colleagues elsewhere and the most important thing to do is to reach out to them. I would observe, I mean leadership is a really lonely business right at the top and that ultimately the hard part of leadership is not soliciting feedback but actually making a tough decision when it's a finely balanced range of facts both for and against. So learning comes I think for me from listening and talking to people taking time to reflect on what they're saying or why they're saying it. Challenging and testing and I think most of my senior colleagues have tested the fact that I challenged them a great deal just to test the assumptions upon which our thinking is built. Because certainly in large multinational corporations there can always be a very easy assumption that actually what prevails in one part of the world also prevails in another and actually local differences can be very substantially different. I think if you listen and you learn to your colleagues and you listen and you learn to people from the community you learn a great deal both outside in. I think it's really important that that's a lens that you apply to yourself because it's not what you think looking out it's much more important what people think looking in and just to pick up on what Dr. Frieders just said I think the industry that we work in has been challenged and quite rightly so I think we have an enormous sense of social responsibility in addition to a financial responsibility and I think we've got to be able to demonstrate that through connecting with people far more and that comes through listening and so a lot of what I'm doing is listening and assimilating and then trying to sort of reach out to people who've had similar experiences and I'm fortunate I think HSBC as an organization has had a privileged history we've been around for a long time 150 years next year so in that time we've been through many a difficult experience and what you learn in life is it's not how you survive your successes but it's how you deal with your challenges you know and those challenges have come somewhere at some time before just have the wisdom to reach out and find out what the solutions were then Dr. Frieders Dr. Frieders Well for me I know you read voraciously you read a lot of books aside from that when I have the time in the toilet I I'm really very clear with my colleagues and this is what I do typically when I go to a place and I tell them look this is the kind of person that I am I have a lot of blind spots I'm not a superman I need you to protect my blind spots so I don't believe in personality leadership I think that is that is a PR on my opinion I think leadership is carried out by a group of people in fact not just a small group of people a big part of the organization everybody plays a role in providing leadership for the organization so knowing that I have flaws I have blind spots I ask my colleagues these are my blind spots to protect me from these blind spots tell me when this is happening my biggest worry is hubris hubris is believing in your own bullshit so I'm always afraid of that because I have ego everybody has ego and sometimes that takes the better of me and I try not to make sure that I'll be keep that in check but at the same time the key challenge is we all work together to make sure that we prepare people to take over from us when the time comes so we spend a lot of time looking at let's identify these individuals that will take over from us hopefully sooner rather than later we do not want to be too comfortable in our seats right now therefore for the sake of the organization for the sake of the great organization the right guy who comes next should take over from us when the time comes so we do spend a lot of time doing that in the organization well learning I agree with everything that the two of them have said and particularly your pick of Montato Farid said I'm also learning from both of them right now and particularly who I've gotten to know a little bit since yesterday having spent some time with him is that a big part of learning is the humility that these two gentlemen bring if you're humble so I agree with everything they've said but I'd like to add one more source of learning which has worked for me I'd like to share and that is to change your orientation from if only to what if so there's so much to complain about around the world this is not right, if only this was like this or if only this would change to that if only, if only, if only but if we ask instead what if we could do this and we could try that and you're willing to take some risk to try the what ifs tremendous amount of learning happens of course you get egg on your face every now and then but the tremendous amount of learning that happens when you ask the what if question and are willing to take a little bit of risk and the biggest learning comes from failure so thank you very much I'm going to ask Mr. Mokta I'm going to skip Dr. Farid for this question I knew he'd be very grateful for being this and that well he was the one who whispered in my ear let's ask this question to Rajiv and to Mokta but not himself he's a very smart man besides being humble as well he's been working on Sabri since yesterday ask these two guys more questions he even planted some questions he's a group CEO and also the chief PR officer that's Farid the question is this we do some we think we're doing a lot of work in developing leadership in corporate Malaysia because you come from the UK so tell us how good are we doing it on a scale of 1 to 10 where we 10 being excellent please let me know I need to know that well let me answer that question by starting somewhere before we get to the answer to that question it's going to be very long so here's a state secret for you Malaysians PS you live in one of the most beautiful countries in the world you simply don't know how good you've got it so for those of us who've had the great privilege of coming to Malaysia let me tell you in HSBC when you were appointed the CEO of Malaysia you've just ascended to corporate heaven ok because you must have done something right to have been considered to be put in that position in my case I'm still trying to discover what it was but having arrived in this country what do you see you see a wonderful multi-ethnic, multi-cultural country that is potentially slightly unease with itself domestically internationally everybody loves you and actually when Malaysians travel overseas they become true Malaysians ok so actually you've got something absolutely humongously good to start with you don't suffer from civil wars, conflicts a difficult neighbourhood you know, protracted positions all of those things you're spared of secondly you've got some terrific institutions ok and I do think that we should pay tribute to how Malaysia has developed its institutions and in the sector that I work in and I don't say that likely, 32 years of the banking industry probably Bank Nogara is the best regulator that I've dealt with as a professional anywhere across the world and why is that because I think as a regulator they understood the challenges that the financial crisis the first financial crisis of 97-98 bought and took a series of very important actions to remedy and remediate what occurred and I think in that that whole process of pain some real leadership was developed and that leadership sits today in the case of the governor she's one of the very best governors worldwide the very institution that we're sitting in because you're about the focus on development I look at my own institution and I'm absolutely thrilled by the quality of the people that I see because they are absolutely world class in terms of their potential now, you know, I hope that they will go on to realize that potential and experience an opportunity will give them that chance and in the audience today you have some of my more senior colleagues and you also have some of the executive trainees and every single one of you has the opportunity to be the CEO of HSBC not the CEO of HSBC, Malaysia okay you have to believe that sometimes I think that Malaysians don't believe in themselves as much as they can and they should okay give yourself the chance to believe because yesterday in Tanzania you saw what can happen when a Malaysian leads the charge so the message I have actually I think leadership is in pretty good state here I think you've got awareness you've got recognition you've got a pipeline of talent it's time for Malaysia to find more leaders because it has the opportunity to take a bigger leadership position in the world that it currently has is there one particular area where we could still do a lot of work to improve ourselves I think from my own institutional point of view the only thing I could wish for was that people would speak up I think we live in a highly differential society you know people still afraid to voice an opinion you know on the basis that it may offend somebody or that it may not be polite to be public I think what the West probably teaches you is it's okay to have a different opinion as long as you're constructive and as long as it's expressed in the right way it's fine to be sometimes to be different you know there's not a there shouldn't be a shyness and it's the thing that I probably struggle with most in our organization which is generally we try very hard at communicating with our people but can we get what they really think you know in the forums rather than feedback around the coffee machine and that's the challenge that we've got and we're working on it Rajiv Yorta I know you think of yourself as a Malaysian half of the time now but I'm gonna ask you to go back to the other half which is still American from India and give us your answer please you know I find that there is a huge hunger in Malaysians in general for learning and for leadership the fact that there are so many people here today and yesterday the fact that you know you and I in our classes every week and the curiosity and the hunger to learn is just amazing and there are sometimes like sponges that you know that's so keen very very reflective so I think there's a lot going on I agree everything with everything that Mukhtar said it's a beautiful country if there's one issue that I wish you would do less off as Malaysians is stop looking at all the negatives in your country you talk about the negatives more than you talk about the positives as Mukhtar said this is a beautiful country you got so much going for you but you know criticizing the one or two things that are not right seems like a national pastime let's stop that aside from eating of course alright thank you is that okay for you? alright see he really tried to get us into trouble ladies and gentlemen round of applause and my gratitude please thank you very much