 My name is James McIntyre, I'm from Rhymer East, and I'm here representing the property order for 803 North Church in Mitchmire. I just want to start off by telling everybody I do apologize for the late start. The architects were here when we wanted to run through the program off on here. It was not the fault of St. Phillips that this late start occurred. It was our fault, so I do apologize for that late start. We're ready to go now, so I hope that we can all have a good discussion here tonight. This was organized by Councilman Shaw to discuss the proposed project for 803 North Church. As many of you know, it had gone before the HRC in December 6 of last year, and the proposal at this time was to move forward with a new design. So I just wanted to start off with a few introductions. As I said, my name is James McIntyre, Mitchmire is the property order. The new architecture program that we've brought along, we've got Javier Gonzalez and a lot of little greatest from G.R.G. architecture. And they'll speak a little bit later about the actual design features, which is really the primary focus of our presentations. But there are other things that we would like to get to, and I know that people want to discuss. So I'm going to be doing some presenting, but mainly I am the moderator this evening. So I'm going to talk about a couple items and ask for input on those items. And then we'd like to move on to the next item so that we can get to the focus of the meeting, which is the design. So for those of you who don't know, I just want to give a background of how this process got to where we are. The property need of 3D North Charity is zone P for downtown, which means it is the title piece of property. However, it requires needing the downtown design guide. So the downtown design guide is a set of guidelines that are about making a sustainable and lawful downtown. And for that judgment, we go to HDSC, the historic design review commission, to see whether or not we meet those guidelines. We submitted a project last year. It went to HDSC on December 6th. It was long hearing, and at the end of it, HDSC denied our certificate of appropriateness. And it said we did not meet the guidelines. So we regrouped, and we brought in a new architecture firm, and we started with scratch. We started using the comments that were made by HDSC, those things from the design guidelines and those things from the makeup review. Coming up, it is not on agenda as of yet. I want everybody to understand that this coming Wednesday, on February 7th, it is on the HDSC's agenda to schedule a meeting. So we don't have any time yet. The resubmittal was submitted this last Friday, so it has officially been resubmitted and designed. And it will be scheduled this coming Wednesday to which day, I'm not sure yet, but that is the day that HDSC will discuss it. So just to be clear, it will be her own. It will not be her own. It has just been submitted. It took a bit of time, but it has officially been on the agenda. So in anticipation of that, we were, before we actually submitted, one thing that you can do as part of the HDSC process is request feedback from those commissioners. And that's all the design review committee. We had a design review committee with three of those HDSC members on January 11. Just some of the initial feedback just to say we're headed in the right direction. So we're not going to sit back here, but that was a meeting held a few weeks back and, you know, they gave us some good direction to the feedback. Prior to that HDSC meeting, just a few days prior, I wanted to point out that the Office of Historic Preservation and with the help of the city attorney's office had sent the letter to all of the HDSC members. This is important for everybody to understand, because this was coming not from less than a dollar, but coming from the city attorney's office and the historic preservation. In that letter it said to the HDSC members, the focus is on design. I know there are a lot of charged issues around the site, but the focus is on design. They said to scale, match, and setbacks, those items are under the purview of HDSC, but whether or not there's a pending lawsuit, high restrictions, environmental concerns, simply the letter that says these are not under the purview of HDSC. So those are things that we can discuss in the public hearing, but it is not under the HDSC's purview to vote yes or no on the project on those items. So that's the first part of this presentation. I just want to see if anybody had questions on those items. So understanding what the role of HDSC is in your openings of floor, I'm asking. I'm going to get to work on this portion, so I'd like to, there's a few details about the environmental concerns and about first and probably everything first and then open the floor up. And then I'd like to talk about design after that, but I want to make sure that we separate those issues that we're really trying to discuss at the time here. So I can talk through some of the points on the environmental and property sale. And then we can open up to the floor. Alright, did you create the agenda? We're going to help the council's office. How does the council's office feel about that? Sorry? No, with that portion, some of those questions would probably be different to you anyway, right? Yes, let's go ahead and look at the presentations first. Sure. My only concern is I went to the meeting of the Rear Company back in whatever you had that last meeting. And, you know, it's just a very contentious issue. And I also wanted to say that I was hoping that you would open up this conversation because several of us came to you asking for this meeting. Had we not approached you, this meeting may not be taking place. And so, you know, I mean, I would actually ask you to still come up here and invite us to this conversation because it feels, I feel that the power dynamic is off and that we don't have the same people opportunity that it's just them getting to, you know, move forward. And, you know, the city attorney already is approving all of it. You know, so it's already going on with the broad attention that it makes people. Okay, now let me just clarify a few things. You don't hear me with that microphone? Yes. Okay. You clarify a few things. In terms of the bullet points in the area of the agenda, those are takeaways that we ask of Barbie. We go up to four specific takeaways. Those same takeaways are the exact same things that you'll ask my office to look into. It's going to be on, say, the agenda. So in terms of by the property back, the environmental asserts, the design, as well as the swimming water. It's like what it is. What was it? Well, how do you talk? I talk on both sides. Now I've had the location of a similar neutral where folks have come in and felt comfortable giving their opinions. So we want to organize this. We want to hear from you guys. My office is here to make sure that we take notes and hear what you have to say. And I want to make sure that y'all see, y'all get your answers, your questions answered. That's the primary purpose of this meeting. And we may have several of them. This might not be the only one. Okay. It's like, y'all, just like I said, it's out of the agenda here. So we continue that conversation. But it's really important that we create this dialogue. And understand what we're discussing. So once you complete the, I guess, three or four of these items, if you have any questions regarding the self-approving or the environmental concerns, then we can kind of dive into those two from our office. Right. And so, you know, Councillor Charles' office said these are the concerns. And so, yes, I represent the developer I'm presenting. And I'm presenting and saying these are the concerns. You can address them. And of course we can still talk about the discussion about them. So, like I said, the next item was environmental concerns. Whether or not the site has been a battle with or contamination. I can tell you the guess is we have a phase two site assessment that was done on the property in 2005 with purposes of transferring land from Dawson's to the city. This was done before the city in order for them to purchase the document. And the assessment is that the site was clean. This is not a public document. This is a document that was, that was reused in order to acquire the property in 2016. But it was given to the city in 2005. I think other folks have tried to track this down through the city channels and unaccompanied refraining. But it wasn't the city's possession from 2005 until it was the property transferred in 2014. Hold on. We have all the questions, James. Tell me more. Okay. Hold questions. I just want to get to you. Okay. The items in the document about this. So, as I said, there were grains on the site. They were tested for contamination. The site was clean. But I am not legally allowed to distribute that document, make that document public. But, and we were not, I can assure you, we were not able to purchase the land in 2016 from Eugene Seymour to us in 2016 unless the bank had seen that report and seen it was clean. But beyond that, there are, there is oversight from the TECDQ. The city may not have the purview for the face-to-the-site assessment, but TECDQ does. So, if there are concerns, that's the TECDQ to take up. And it's important to point out that, as I started meeting it, this is a design review. And this is not about environmental concerns, but whether or not each of you are seeing approves the project for design purposes. It's something this isn't a concern about. I understand that. But it's not a design concern. The next item I'd like to discuss is whether or not the, the city could acquire the property for this matter. And I'd say that's something that had been discussed at one point, but it's not a feasible option for us. This is a piece of property that was purchased for the purposes of developing the site. It's an entire piece of property and it's entitled to building a downtown property, not a park. And so, we bought it for that purpose. Elaine's not for sale at this time. And we've spent a significant amount of money investing in that property. We're not just purchasing it, but in our protection returns to try to get the approval to make sure our city's now continuing forward. So at this time, it's not a feasible option. It was discussed, and the council with the office approached us and said that it was something that we couldn't be important to people. We understand that. It's not for sale at this time. The design changes on my, you know, Javier and I were going through those, but before we started the design, I just wanted to see if there were a few any questions at this point, otherwise I'd like to turn it over to Javier and let him describe to you how we were trying to address all of his hysterical concerns. But then there was a grant given back to the property over on that same property. So they didn't really lose anybody in that position. So how much, based on the value of this operational property, that's what you really should be analyzing that's going to cost them? You're describing a different property that wasn't us. You're describing something, a transaction from the city and Eugene Seymour's company. That was in 2014. 2016. 2016 the property was then purchased by a different company. That's us. So what you're describing is not where it's taking place for us. But, you know, the amount of money that he's now invested there, I couldn't make the whole thing out of it. Yes? I don't like this because I did not have that one perspective. The design is part of the reason that we call it maybe. So it's all about factors and how we're delivering this. But going back to the environmental assessment and how that impacts the greater community is the reason it ever came up is there's no stock gaps in there now because it doesn't have to go through so many. We allude to this document that was done in 2005 but that's really necessary for your venture. No city official can find that. And if you're alluding to the document that took place in 2005 with regards to the HGP Bridget and putting it underneath, I need clarification that that will also be put today over your chair. You can't put spoon in the ground until we know the safety of people. And this, I can assure you what was done is a little too shrouded to me. I am sorry that it seems too shrouded to you, but... Would it be to you if I gave you that one? I would ask you to visit the TCEQ and the permitting department to determine whether or not the problem is solved or not. Okay. But now you're here to see what the design is. Real quick, regarding that issue, my office has reached out to TCEQ regarding any issues. And we've also been informed that before anything breaks ground, there has to be an environmental study done. So we can't just start breaking ground and building it down. I'm testing that. So there has to be a 2005 study and nothing has been developed on that problem since then. But if HRC approves this, okay, and ground breaking begins, they're going to have to pull the permits which one is acquiring environmental studies. So it will be done. And our office is reaching out to the TCEQ regarding this problem. Thank you, sir. Good evening, everyone. My name is Jett Winsaw. I'm the chair of YARC 5. I'd like to start by thanking the council for organizing the meeting. Thank you to the state bills for hosting us. And thank you all for being here. A little bit about GRG. I've worked at Small Farm here in downtown San Antonio. I have been working, each of us has been working for many years in the profession. And I myself am a former member of the HCRC. I was chair for five years. I served on the division here for eight years. And this is about 2004 or so. And I remember, we couldn't even imagine this sort of community input, interest, whatever for a project like that in the narrative side. This is wonderful. The things we're here to talk about today, the reasons you're here, all somehow becomes a better project. As the saying goes, higher sharpens higher. Well, we've been certainly put to task here by Mr. Meyer, the project leader. He's been involved in the development probably because of their, I tried to mention, he's from San Antonio, they have decreased, and he's an investor in the division. He doesn't develop properties and sells them, he owns them, forever, and so on. And so, the firm has been hard to work in if you vary the other from my presentation. We didn't bring a life-free model because it took a little difficult to get you through it. So we'll do the best we can in this power-book presentation. But as the college life said, this is a new day, a new design. And so the purpose of this meeting is to, in the spirit of cooperation, kind of find that common ground. Really, the scope of the neighborhood was needed. Really, really reach into those design guides that the city has when they're there for a purpose. But the really, really good ability and affordly to get your feedback, I will qualify that this is preliminary, you're still working. It's still soft. We originally reached out to the members of the Partection Committee three weeks ago or so. It was really early, and so it's like copies. It's our intercept. We need to leave that feedback sooner or later. But in general, we'll see a strong observance of the comments that were shared the last time from the art and from the community as well as from HCRC and others as we go. So certainly, the project approach mentioned our project leaders say, hey guys, you got to really, really make this a great project. My name is on it. This is my own town. I'm investing in the area side to have strong, strong faith that this is tomorrow's main urban center. So with that, you say, hey, basically I'll paraphrase it. Listen to the community. Make a great project. Let's do something worthy of a member of something memorable, something that will bring people together and not drive them apart. And so, those objectives that we've outlined for the project is to create an introduced apartment housing with the performance of units that are on the bottom of the market scale in terms of cost. And so, therefore, the units are very small, efficient type of urban. Establish this strong along Cherry Street Urban Development precedent for the near-east side as a dense, vibrant edge condition that welcomes the smaller. The third one is contributing to the development of available, livable, livable walkable, sustainable community. With that, those things would be certainly a never-to-ask-been design guide. And the last way to create an open space is by Pocket Park, next to the city property that we have agreed, and observers of the National District Authority. Where previously there had been the idea that it would be a future site for a restaurant. That's no longer the case. Mitch has spent a little bit more of his money to buy at that Eugene to contribute that open space as the humanitarian open space for the development, which is open to the public. With the hopes that, ideally, with the Council's leadership, there would be an under-the-bridge development that would be seamlessly working together. So it's safer, it's bigger, it's friendlier, it's open, all those sorts of things. So ground rules, we're looking at urban apartment typologies and precedents. One of the best practices, one of the best building types that are out there. Historic considerations, we're next to the ability to build a district. We've got the bridge, et cetera. We want to look at and consider the present-day context. Certainly, the City of downtown Design Guide and the previous Commons from before and before will be here tonight. And so just to make it clear, things that we're not doing, we're not saving the basic lot for a future restaurant. We're not connecting to the bridge. We're not limiting access to the bridge. We're not going to be able to share all those things that have been discussed in the past. We're not building too close to the bridge. We're not exposing parking to the street. We're not pushing parking into the neighborhood. And, you know, most of us in this meeting, we intend to have that through the rest of the year. So present typology, we're really looking for a vibrant first-class, nicely done, nicely designed building that resonates and is indeed with the culture and architectural heritage of the area. You know, and speaking of history, you know, the project site is one that we went back and looked at. When the viaduct, the bridge was installed in 1910, it was for a purpose to get across the tracks, to connect downtown and the neighborhood just as a piece of charity. And so we had buildings in close proximity of large buildings, warehouse buildings, not apartment buildings, not all buildings like that, large buildings, nonetheless. Right? In proximity to the bridge, just like that. And so we even have... until 1971, we don't have the case. Hany and he had a warehouse in proximity to the bridge and he was in construction there. We're not sure what's happened. We did talk to the office of the Board of Preservation to find out what happened in these buildings. Did they get demolished or did they burn down? What happened? We don't know yet. So if anyone happens to know the rest of that story, please visit with me later. So the bridge itself was a wonderful, practical thing at the time. But we've now come to the environment's beauty, the iconic views that we now enjoy, but let's not make... let's not confuse history. Those views that we enjoy now are not historic views. We want to do our best to, within the construction of this project, to frame the views and keep those open to view sheds as much as we can, but not to the point where they would preclude the project for short. As the project was restored by Patrick Sparks, the approaches to the bridge were deemed too far gone. So those got reflected clearly and they had previously been 30 feet wide, they're not 15 feet wide. So what that tells us is the bridge was even cosier to its neighboring buildings in its historic period of significance. That's just being said, that's the history. We can certainly do better to respect the bridge and that's what we're trying to do. Current context, of course, you can go to the site, I hope. It's the open field and some industrial buildings and so forth. A positive data study shows that all cherry to the west we have the larger industrial buildings. To the east, we have these mattering of the homes and so forth in their own scale and proximity and relationship. And certainly, you know, we've got the bridge and its restoration and the wonderful things that are happening because of that interest and hard work of the bridge. We've got the Alamo Brewery which is bringing attention and the commerce that's in the area. Certainly we have the bond of money that the roof of parks nearby. These are all things that Patrick, you know, I'm going to use to look at the site. We've got the Crockett Street Loft which is a great project to just watch away from this site. I will point out that there is not any planned retail in that building. So it's not an excuse building. Even something as simple as getting a sidewalks which was, I understand, a fee in and of itself on cherry. And we can, of course, go without observing technology all the preservation work happening in the neighborhood is wonderful. And so with that, we're going to show the Brewery site and then go through these tenants one by one as prescribed for by the design guidebook. So here you see a rather different building but it has some of the similar DNA as in the previous one. We've pulled it away and when you're seeing a pocket park green space, that is previously a place over for a building for a restaurant. We've since pulled that restaurant into the building. We've got different massing. We've got mainstream up to a certain level. We've laid this building across the street and so forth. We've got a interplay of the demonstration which was actually the idea of one of these new visitors. Religious building across the street and where the windows are and patterns and so forth. So we took that as an opportunity to break from the rigid marching of the architecture and make it more lyrical. We also have reduced the girth of the project. It was a podium previously across the entire site. We pulled it back. We've gone up before. But in what fully imagined we have, we'll make some of these images of animals. And so what we did was we tried to pull the building being four stories away from the bridge. And you'll see here just a minute. We're it's closest to the bridge we're restricted with a roof deck on top of that. Hard to see here but we'll get to some better images in just a second. So where we're closest to the actual trussel of the bridge is down to one story. And that's where the restaurant will be and hoping on the public space. So with that we're looking at the downtown design guide and it's got a whole list of things that some apply. Some don't. That the downtown design guide says hey, look at these and use your best culture. They don't all apply. Certainly if we skip one and you think differently we'll let it snow. But for example the river one that doesn't apply to this it also says the focus has to do with the relationship with the building in the street. How the building talks to the community. That's really the focus of it. In fact the downtown design guide that was put together by Mark Broder a planner. He had a section where he the downtown design guide would kind of quite solve every part of this is a sign-offs and sit-backs to start with. You can see in this overall view we've pulled the building into the site to accommodate parallel parking a row of the five foot by five foot tree grates and trees. We've got an eight foot sidewalk so we're really really making this a complete street for all of the transportation and to make this a place. There's not more cars that are only happiness but that's just this joggers you know can be pushed on the road and all that enhances the project of shade there's greenery there is protection by the car and everything on the street and it really really makes a difference that we didn't have it before. The trees are because there is not enough room to have the cat to touch every month. She had a very great time as the design guide calls the trees to grow and eventually have the cat to touch well that's great if you're looking from the street if we don't have a cedar elm or something that has a column or a row the building will forever grow into the side of the building and requires a lot of maintenance and then eventually it's going to be removed. Cedar elm or something like that we had our last department help us with that but we'll find the right species to create to really really make that more and so the idea of that wide landscape buffer and so forth will happen on both streets Cherry and Elmore Ralph or Creepin previously there was a parking garage behind the green screen and so we got the message what you see here is retail live work and the amenities for the department building so these are one half story loft that you see along Cherry so for the end there's many important retail space and then on the other end you'll see here the next slide that is the living room of the complex so that'll have sofas and chairs and activation if anything's going on the street people inside are going to be able to observe and vice versa which makes for a safer more vibrant active place along the open space and the as I said the living room for the center off to the right and what you're seeing here for the park is a place hold in fact we'd love to reach out to the community and have the community involved in that process especially if there would be a partnership with the city under the bridge so that really becomes meaningful space not just open free space two entries off of Amar street and the first set of covered spaces those are reserved for visitors so people coming to visit someone or shop at the retail center or set up a lease we'll have a place to park further we've got parking at two levels one extreme when we dips down and goes under the living room building there which is a great expense to mention he doesn't know about that but understand we've got parking and taking over masking and street wall you can see that the building is broken up into discernible masses so that it reads more on the scale that's one of the things and as we flip around here we've got a super different parts and pieces there are terraces lots of things interplay with white and shadow and you'll see them in color as well this is the more street so you can see a tall building over the corner over the main street and then it's broken up as you go excuse me yes sir you might go back to previous life right there as your face is over right inside your your plan view it shows the parking lot you tell me when it's about there that's the one parking lot which property is that that's the that's the that's the whole parking that's parking to the road right that's the parking but if you allow me to just around you our parking is some sort of rain here we go this is not a walkway like I told but if you bear with people looking into it essentially you drive through the streets and get to the parking behind your building I wish this was only to show you your life so did you have a question with respect to the main street property or where we parked it let me ask you my question so moving on to outside open spaces please that's all right as president we're managing to be a hybrid community space for the not just the development but for the community and the coffee and everything and so there you see the space and how he knows how far back the building is in particular on the end how far back it is it's about depending on where you measure it it's about 64 feet in one place and a little bit less in the other where it's smaller the apartment where it's smaller 64 feet from where it wasn't before I'm sorry 64 feet are the open spaces 64 feet further back 64 feet from the wall you see there the property line and then there's another few feet before you actually get to the building and then if you notice we pull that back in the street to open up the view and frame the views of the bridge and then it pulls in another 8 feet where it's one story right there and so from the face of that class it's about 8 feet less but it's also shorter well it's shorter but you've also increased the height right we increase the height of where it's so thank you that's a thank you for making that point you can't hear me the building is taller except that when we did that we pulled back to the building to where it's not four stories but one story here we see the second class of the garage so your breakfast is taller but it's harder well I guess my question is and is with that last design before and I know you who imagined it okay so it was already 58 and that was fudging it a little bit that it was going to exceed the height of the bridge what is it now what is the height now if I may correct you before there were 53 feet between the building and the another property line those wouldn't be a building a restaurant in the future somehow it's all there now you're going to have open space so whereas with what are the concerns what are we going to get and we need to see what you're doing there even though it wasn't a property actually I think there were two concerns that wasn't the only concern the overall height and how it related to the height of the bridge and the experience was also a question and I'm not sure I understand what you're doing and I'm not opposed to it but I'm not sure that a fifth story clearly articulates how much forward is it then the bridge now oh yeah that's a detail we can get it for you but I'm sure you understand the idea and the why we're going to buy it oh I got that one and if you have it my free logic can make it for you but it's not working yeah yes sir your time oh yes I'm sorry sorry my name is Amita Valdez then I'm the historic Westside Residence Association for the Westside I'm born and raised in the Westside but gave 20 years to the boys and girls club in the Eastside similar development is going on on the Westside San Antonio now the Eastside why do we have money going to the community of the Eastside homes like helping the folks with their homes what is a surplus in the building that's going to cost a lot of our great San Antonio so my question is this does not look like an Eastside the homes that we showed earlier that was Eastside and we talked about the preservation of it people work hard to keep their houses so it just saddens me that East and West the developers continue to put us in high-rise buildings to block whatever they want to block thank you thank you and so if I may continue with the open space and certainly I do think though that yeah with regards to trying to respect exactly why you're here to discuss the time that I have been for questions from day one well so we're clear height is not a restriction what we want to hear from you anyway if you're feeling that or it doesn't feel like it's an Eastside neighborhood separate type of design because of the height what happens this is downtown essentially this is downtown actually this is downtown downtown downtown this is downtown downtown well and we respect that what we'd really like to do is to see this group work together with the townspeople's office and we'd love to explore that area as well to really study what parts of the neighborhood deserve more urban downtown buildings this near Eastside interstitial industrial area there won't be industrial forever what will that be? we wouldn't be having this conversation if it wasn't in proximity to the bridge so to deflect that is disingenuous at best and no one's looking like that welcome to your comments I'm going to and it's just beginning not too sure then you should come prepared with the height I mean this is preliminary so we respect your question we'll get to it but there is a right in part of the development to do the five stories and we're only good because we're kind of respecting people now whether or not success or not you're going to let us know we have two people one of them yes would you help me by putting the elevation Cherry Street on the screen and start closest to the bridge and say here's this setback and it's one story here's the next section of the building it's two stories then here's the next section and it's four stories what is your question before we it's not a question I'm asking you to put the elevation would you mind playing until we get to the end of the presentation because your questions may be answered and then I'd love to come back and do exactly what you're asking I'm sorry to keep you here no it's not a question I'm asking to see the elevation from Cherry mind being patient we'll get to the end of the design requirements and address them hopefully your question or thoughts might be answered and I'll be happy to know what is the height of this building behind it's 74 feet and it's all short that's where the grade drops and well you said 7.4 you said 7.4 the building that's tall is that's 74 feet and to be clear that's your question at the north west corner the property drops on 6.5 feet and that's why it's taller in there in the building 74 feet tall how high is the bridge 58 so the building is going to be 20 feet higher than the bridge so how long the escape thank you I'm sorry oh you're trying to tell me did you with the microphone try to tell me so that was not true the building is 74 feet and it's highest point meaning where the north west corner is where the property drops on 6.5 feet so to get to that point you need to dump 6.5 feet on 7.4 feet and then it's well then they scale to the bridge when you're standing at the bridge just stop that and that is the property of the building is lower is that your question that's your question that's your question let me get to this then I know you're not this is a long presentation architectural detail we are taking at the at the request of HCRC to employ a bridge like details and some of the steel work that we're showing here we have certainly brick reveals interplay of materials and so forth streetscape improvements you know we certainly would love to see a vibrant street all along the sharing but in general it's what we discussed before it's the sidewalks it's the trees it's the streetlamps it's the match the ones on the bridge things like that you can see them there the river walk that's enough I'll go ahead and I'll say that's applicable if you agree site it we'll come back with any site it with sustainable design the project is being held to the national free building standard for apartment buildings or multi-family buildings so we're going to employ things like fabrication of the building sunscreens efficient appliances light textures etc so that's generally what we're almost done public art we're going to leave that to hopefully the opportunity for the park under the bridge and the open space to have a really really thorough conversation what should the public art be Mr. Meyer Mitch owns certainly the 1968 era regardless that you like to install around the property that's because they're sad to hear when people miss you but that's not what we call the public art that deserves a bigger broader discussion than we were able to do so we'll reach out to you if you are willing to work something out with respect to that park and opportunities in the future for public art so the city's purview much of especially that's the city park under the bridge so we'll have to address that at that point so the city still needs to pay for the art so we're going to pay on this to put art in there that would be something to take up for the city for now we don't make it it's one of the dot well I would admit it's paper because this is private property not public property although the park is for the public so I think that would give at least the the pretense to be able to help excuse me I think where especially you guys developers missed the point is that whenever you come into a community it's a community already so the major concerns should be how can I do what I want to do while making sure I'm not screwing up everybody else in life I mean I'm sure everyone here knows developers are in business to make money however there are ways to do it there's a right way there's a wrong way if you come in and first confront the people in the community you together can develop a program that's beneficial to everybody you can make your money and we can still have our community but you guys don't come in like that you make back room deals not accusing you of this of course but that happens we all know that happens but we're not doing anything to really save our communities and this is all these people want they want a community that they can live in everyday raise their kids in and when this kind of stuff happens we don't have the opportunity to do that because we don't have any say and if we do say so it don't really matter it's not taking seriously we need to do a good project here some of the product and work with the community our hands thanks to the government our heart our own we invite good relevant commentary and some things we can affect some things but we'd like to leave here not being less than that to be a week yes you know I've looked at this this project like the other one and this is like a big major problem you address the concerns of the downtown guide but you haven't addressed the terms of the community you know in this story this repeater you put just a big box there there's nothing there's no denying it there in this story and it's going to be across the street from my story there's nothing there well you raise a good point and if I may explain as former chair of the HCRC I can tell you the preservation theory is that to respect something you don't emulate and try to say we're authentic and historic too on the contrary on the contrary what you do is you relate to in our case the industrial area we have the couple honest riff where you lay a brick and you lay them up and that's as high tech as it gets we're doing that we're evoking the mental power there's a beauty just like in the bridge just like in the bridge I will let you end on the story that you may have heard before but the the Eiffel Tower was built to celebrate the achievements in cast iron industrial areas at the time they put it up and people hated it but they thought it was the worst thing they thought they thought this is the worst out of the city that's what we do because we're not going up the trunk by the time and now it's a coast of Paris so so so so to say this is a conveyor it's a building trying to evoke and reflect the industrial area and if you're saying hey we need a little bit more lifetime I wish I could show you in the wall on the other side those have some opportunities for the public there's nothing but that if I'm hearing it if I'm hearing it the building needs more lifetime no building doesn't need to be there a land that I got building to the city of San Antonio to get far still in a legal mess over it how the city managed to first of all give it to Eugene Seymour okay you can buy this $100,000 but he'll give you $300,000 worth of incentives and then he turns around and gives it to somebody else I don't understand and we are still trying to give the Texas Supreme Court to take our case and hear it because it went to a jury of the Peters in San Antonio, Texas and just announced his court the HGV registration will won they started spelling and ran out and into their fields and then since we said oh you are just a grassroots citizen's group you have no standing to sue the city of San Antonio we have been raped and he is just helping in it I want some land that I sat in in Dawson's office and convinced him to donate that land to us as they were leaving their headquarters and going out to 151 and 90 the only thing he asked is name the park for our family and we said right on we'll do that no problem whatsoever but a gentleman deputy city manager Mr. Ethics is the person who stole the land and gave it to Eugene Seymour for incentives and you don't even left the city of San Antonio just to leave you about it and went to Central and he's unleft there under Ethics States this is a dirty deal that Ethics are all located in Manhattan and the best thing that the city could do at this point is to swap the land in the back to the Supreme Court swap the more city land somewhere else build your ugly building somewhere else and the service for this no more but we'll try we'll try and we'll play a swap that's what we hear we'll hear it right now we'll look at our guests and bring some water and we'll do that let's just appreciate that talk take our seats here tonight twice take your dough noite take the arts seat your dough noite take your dough noite and do a little bit of form so proud of you but I think we're missing the point and we kind of just going around I mean, in my opinion, this design is better than the last design, but the whole point is we do not want to ruin that viewshed of that bridge. So that's the point. We can go back with another design and put another story and pull back and set back and do all this, but that viewshed of that bridge is what we are losing. This is the viewshed. Well, however you want to break it down. Okay, we're not able to stand on that corner and see the bridge. How's that for distinction? And that's what everybody in here is upset about. We don't care about the viewshed of the downtown. Our neighborhood view of that bridge, not the viewshed of the downtown, none of that stuff. That's what keeps getting skinned over by all of the pictures and all the fancy words. Let's clarify, you're not speaking for everyone. Yeah. That's one clarify. Okay, not speaking for everyone, but for a lot of people in here, I apologize for that. All right, yes. They were not opposed to it, lived in the neighborhood. Thank you. Thank you for the presentation. Thank you. Yeah. I think y'all have inherited a bigger problem in your office with your counselors inherited a different problem as well. This problem started five years ago. It's not y'all's fault. You're in a position you're just trying to do your job now at this point. But what we were trying to tell you is that there was original concerns from a larger, longer issue. And the fact that now there's community process in this, you're starting to hear that because there wasn't an effective community process before. You know, and this is the only reason how we're here now, and this is why it's so difficult because we've made it so far. And then now you have to hear how disappointing this is going to be for everybody like this. So the problem is that we have the opportunity to make, fix the mistakes from Hardberg earlier, from Mayor Ivy Taylor that allowed this to happen without this community involved. And because really that wouldn't happen earlier than we wouldn't be here today. So this is very frustrating for us to be here five years later and have to talk to a new person every time because you just want a better, better reform design that doesn't meet the vision of that view. You know, something that works with that burden is not any of this structure. I certainly appreciate what you're saying and can't speak to the history and everything else that you guys have heard about. I know it's a better film, but we're trying to do it to design the best project possible. And I know it's marked in the current that this is going to be the case. As far as I understand, there's not any roadblocking that's going to obstruct the course of the project. I just call lives and as my kids say, I call it delivery. So we're doing the best we can with one to listen. The charge has been handed down by the leaders of the project to listen to you and to do the best project we can together. The question is also a little bit shy. I mean, like I said a long time ago, this is a very difficult project because we're behind the A-bots agreement. This happened many, many years ago. And they were talking about a personal private owner that owns property. Now how do we work together? That's what our office is trying to do with everybody into this room is can we come to a compromise? Maybe not. I don't know. But we need to have this dialogue because it's never been happening to me. And I appreciate the development of representation coming out and talking to people because this conversation, like I said, has not happened. And that's going to make sure it happens because we're in a very cross-climbing era right now. And it's a very hard field to swallow. And like I said, it's going to be very simple just to demonstrate inside. Because honestly, they didn't have to show anything. They could have taken the feedback from HRC and then go back to HRC. But we've worked, we've worked with the development. So you need to come back and talk to the community and get very angry. This is not the final product. This is not the final product. We don't want that product. Land swallow. This land swallow, they have to want to swallow it. They want to swallow it. The video depends if they swallow it. Well, I mean, okay, the way this video is set up is just for them to get feedback on this. And the way that you keep on describing that as a public, that this is a public response to this, there wasn't enough of that conversation about what alternatives are there other than building something. It's okay. We need to have a deeper discussion about that. But like I said before, we talked to the attorney, we looked at personal problem about if we had that conversation. And if that wasn't a salad, Mr. McCoy has done it. Mr. McCoy, is there a new decision to sell it before a damn farm is taken to be designed? That's the problem. This is not a final design though. Please keep that in mind. It's not a final design. There's also a mic. Please make sure that as you have the commentary and questions that you raise your hand for the mic, we're not going to keep yelling out of order. Or come up to the mic. I have a question. This is still, I believe, this is this land name that happened when they gave me C1's property recently. And then you sold it to them. I mean, is that still a litigation? Yes. So why are you trying to rush this development through before it's even settled? I mean, because my concern is that once it's built, it's built. And personally, I think that's probably what they're trying to do is get it done. Because if you lose a litigation and all you can say, I'm sorry, it's built. I mean, so my question is why don't you just wait until the courts have decided what direction this is going to go in? Can I ask you a question? Here, take the mic. Can you hear me? Yes. The case was a judge that asked the opponent to work it out. And it wasn't a standing issue. It was an issue that you couldn't sue the city on that specific performance. They couldn't get the land back. That's why the case dismisses. Someone, one of the H. Derek, I'm sorry. The H.D. Brentford appeal, which is asking the Supreme Court to essentially reopen the case to say, is that correct? They haven't chosen that yet. It is not still a litigation in the traditional sense that has been judged by the appellate court. We're not trying to rush anything to get something passed because this is an important point. Even if the Supreme Court were to take the case, even if the Supreme Court were to overturn that decision from the appellate court, it doesn't affect the fact that the land could have been sold. That was not what the original district court said. They said specific performance in terms of the money of the land, not the land itself. So even if the Supreme Court does get involved, it doesn't affect the fact that the land was sold? Nothing gets undone. I don't think there's nothing to rush to ask. Okay, so now for the true story. Or another point of view. There was a memorandum of understanding between the city of San Antonio and the Hays Street Bridge Restoration Group. That memorandum of understanding, told Demanded of the Restoration Group to raise money to preserve the bridge. Because at the Hays Street Restoration Group worked with the city to get $2.9 million from a tax dot. That meant that June Bradshaw with Daisy Bus Company donated buses to go to Austin, to Bobby Austin. And we've got people, Marcy Inns, we've got Nanny Hinton, we've got Gary Houston, I don't know other people in the Restoration Group. That was in 2000, 2001, 2002, that's when the bridge gets $2.9 million. And then the Restoration Group raises another $200,000 cash in kind of the architects of the engineers and the land. And Marcy Inns and Nanny Hinton and Doug Steadman went and spoke to Dawson. So the lawsuit was challenging the fact that the city just kind of forgot about that memorandum of understanding. And then worked a deal with Eugene Seymour and the city. And as people said, basically $295,000 were charged with Eugene Seymour. And guess what, we're giving you a grant for $295,000. So we went to court in 2012. And by 2014, a jury of our peers, people we didn't know, said the city breached the contract. 11 of those 12 jurors said, you've reached the contract city of San Antonio. Do best, do good for your community. And that was a jury of our peers. The city then appealed into the Fourth Court of Appeals. I remember asking Ron Gerber, when he was a councilman, Ray Saldana and Shirley Gonzalez. I said, why didn't you sell the land in December of 2014 to Eugene Seymour? And those three council people said, because we won the lawsuit. And I asked each other individually, if you won the lawsuit, why didn't you appeal? And all three of them kind of looked blankly at me. So, yes, and at the Fourth Court of Appeals, the Fourth Court of Appeals, a very conservative, two Republicans, one Democrat, did say the city is king. There's the sovereign immunity cause. So they're saying they have the right to do whatever they want, because they are the government. And that is an issue that is being challenged. The Texas Supreme Court is waiting on briefs by the Haystreet Restoration Group that are due this Wednesday or Thursday. I'm not sure which day. I thought it was February 8th. The lawyer working on that right now isn't here because she, since 2012, for free as a pro bono attorney representing the Haystreet Bridge Restoration Group is working to submit probably a 100-page brief to this Texas Supreme Court. That's because we love that bridge. That's because we believe in government that honors community, respects community, people who donated years and years and years to save that bridge, a bridge that was going to be torn down by the city in the 1980s. You can look up all that history. It's in newspapers. It's in city violence. And we're sad that the council just says development over anything else. You mentioned the Eiffel Tower. It is an icon that people can like in Paris, but now everybody loves it. It's the same thing. Nobody paid attention to the bridge until it was finally restored. And now everybody wants it and loves it. When you just want to make sure for our children, our grandchildren, our great-grandchildren, that view is for everyone, not just for the people who live there in the apartments, but for everyone. And that part was supposed to be that there was even parking spots for people, for student groups to be able to drive, school buses to drive in and have children use it. The idea was it was going to also talk about trains and the history of trains in the east side. There's so much work that was done. And all we're asking is the respect of the government, of our government. They talk about sitting participation. And that's what this group of people since the 80s did, gave up all that time for all of us to enjoy that bridge. And now we're just going to do what we've done to the pearl. You know, we may like the pearl, but we don't see the pearl anymore. The beautiful cathedral in the middle, you have to be inside there, go in there, and then only from one point can you see the pearl. But if you drive around, you don't see that. We don't want the same thing to happen here. And we want the bridge to be for everyone, not just for those who can live in the apartments or who can go into the very tiny pocket part, which is very, very tiny. Are you going to address the 74B? Come on now, brother. We are moving that direction. I'd like to hopefully in the interest of moving everyone together to the discussion I think you want to have. I want to say a few things in response to what I say about beautiful words. You know, I've been doing this for a long time and we're here today with a sincere hope to, you know, have the abstract art and then we, you know, work together in making this best it can be. I don't know much, but from what I've said with my experience, as beautiful and moving as your words were, that we're going to see a building here. And we really need everyone's cooperation to make this a better place. So those of you, I don't know everything. I don't have a crystal ball. What I do know is that if you don't work with us and go with us, we're going to miss out. So, so, so, with that, with that, can I see by a show of hands how many people are willing to help us make this a better project? Not make it go away. Okay, hold on. People want to see it be a part and the views protected. Raise your hand. Somebody count. You don't need to count on a jar. You need to count on a 50-50. Listen. Count them and show them. Let's go this direction for a minute. Just entertain me for a minute. Okay? There has ever been a likelihood that there may be a development there. I can't get into all that. The conversation is you went out 24 feet. Let's talk about that part, 20 feet. And you knew what to begin with. So you're not coming off as honest as you pulled it up too quickly unless somebody put it to you on a tax. You knew it too quickly. But hang on a minute. This happens to be Councilman Shaw and District Tuesday. You have a multi-layer. The reason they keep taking a beating is because we can't have a new member say, yeah, ooh, that's weird. Who knew it was going to be that? All of us did. They said it's not for sale. And you know what they said to me? One of the oldest things in the world. Everything has a price. Except the democratic process. That's why we're here. It doesn't have much to do with whether a developer or James McKnight where he's a good developer or not. He's defending his client. We need you to defend us. And the process. Look, there's a table full of folks over here that have a different opinion. If I didn't, if I wanted to do this in a vacuum, I would have been in the city five years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago. We're counting on you. The democratic process is the issue. Not even the height of the building because if we get to that, we might be able to get to the height of the building. So in the beginning of this presentation, you'd be in a series of objectives of what you want to do. And I guess the motto would be really, and you mentioned this as well, I guess the motto would be summarize. In fact, you really want to be a part of the East Side community. You really want to blend in with the neighborhood and do something that's really benefit everybody. But in which way does this include affordable housing? Because I mean, from what I'm understanding, rents in these apartments will be $1,000 plus. That does not match the income level of your local East Side residents. And, you know, this is an increasing problem in neighborhoods like the East Side. I mean, the real thing is, if you want to do this for the community, how is this benefiting the surrounding community and is this really for the community or is this for target demographic and target income bracket that you're trying to bring into the neighborhood for a higher property crisis? At least from our perspective at that point, these are places where you rest your head and where you live, shop, work. And some performance of the units are about $1,000, which is on the lower end of market rate. And what you get as a community is the tax tax. Every good of those red dollars go into paying taxes, they go to the schools, they go to the streets, they go to the lights and all those sorts of things. So, thank you. Thank you. So, to answer your question, is this for the community and for those kids who grew up in the community, want to go to school, get a job and still live in the community? Here's a question. Well, that sounds nice and it probably sounds good on paper that if it increases taxes, they have more taxes in the neighborhood than it will increase the school system as well. But that only works if the people who've been living in the neighborhood decide what's going on. They see not just in terms of these apartments but in terms of people who are trying to take advantage of low cost in the area and try to buy hundreds of thousand dollars worth of property. And people are being forced out. People who've been living there for generations are being forced out. People are saying their neighbors have to leave, you know. I've seen groups that work with homeless people in neighborhoods and they're being clashed with people who've been moving in by income rather than that person in that neighborhood. So this definitely is not going to just be chopped up to you know, oh, it's going to increase the neighborhood. It's going to make the neighborhood better because it's going to make the schools better. It's going to make, you know, tax going to be paid higher in the area because neighborhood might be better but also the population of the neighborhood will be replaced and that's the main problem. To bring new people and have people come back at a place where someone can have people or a real apartment where it's before, where they're going to say now we're not displaced in any way. This is something about what you saw when you went out there. There's not a house that's there now no one has to move out. You guys are supposed to be apart. Absolutely. That's beyond the discussion here tonight. But Coach, we'll take it and thank you. But we can't say that we have to agree to disagree because it's not going to go out in the neighborhood because of rising property prices and rising rent prices. That's exactly what these apartments are going to do with the extremely high rent prices that they're trying to bring into the neighborhood. This is an opinion. This is a point of fact that people are suffering already in the neighborhood as what, you know, across with what a y'all are trying to accomplish right now. Thank you. Also, everyone was clear, you know, we did reach out to the Degro and the Hill Neighborhood Association about three weeks or so weeks ago and so we're not hiding, we're not trying to circumvent any neighborhood processes that talk about the design policy and that folks want to come on to the office and roll out the sketch paper we're having to do that. I will say that this process through all the interest in dialogue and action and through the leadership of the council and we have a better project and hopefully by the time we're all done this gets to HSUC, it'll be a great project. Come in. Also, we are ending at 7.15 so we only have one more vote. Two more comments. And I'll have to hear from the five comments. Can't sit accountable and shelf please. I just want to suggest that a difference between this design and the original submitted is that this creates to the west side of the structure there more of an enclave which has turned its back on the neighborhood. It looks as if there actually will be space that will be very private space, not visible across the streets that will have the best view of all of the bridge and related to the bridge is your Eiffel Tower point. Doug Steadman who's a senior member of our restoration group who is sort of the dean of the professional engineering community locally has emphasized to all of us how over and over again that this bridge uses some of the same construction techniques as the Eiffel Tower and it predates the Eiffel Tower which is another reason why so many of us feel that beauty would be protective. We have an engineering landmark here that we don't want to see in the literature. So this design was a donut with one 50-foot section taken out and this is a seed with one 100-foot section pulled back to one story. But it's an open part of your seed before it was a donut so it was an open part before that it's more closed but that's open. But thank you. That was a great time. Thanks for having me. Comments, because we have 10-15 so please keep this working. I've been a lifelong resident of San Antonio's morning race here. I'm not from the east side I'm from the west side and I live in the north side right now. But my son is a photographer and you're going to screw that up. And I just want to say I'm going to ask you a question. I heard you say something like you might as well just join and figure out how to do it. I kind of feel like you're saying No, but that's what I understand you say. I'm kind of just saying you're going to get raped so you might as well sit back and reason to enjoy it. Correct me if I'm wrong. Correct me if I'm wrong. I've said so that no one is mistaken. I've said my understanding of the situation is that this is going to move forward in observance of the rights of the property owner no one is getting anything taken from them certainly not the word you use. And it's better to work together to make this something we can be proud of. That's why I said I didn't say anything else. Okay, but basically you're saying that it's going to happen whether we want it to or not. That's not basically what I said. What I said is the developer has charged us to reach out and work with this group here. That's not what you're saying. But I'm just asking for clarification. I believe I don't have a crystal ball I said. I'm not the answer. I'm not an attorney for short. I believe this is what you move forward and this is our opportunity to do a damn good job of development. That's not the same as what you were saying. It's going to happen whether you want it to happen or not. How many people want a project like this to move forward in this room? Is that the right height? How many people want a project like this? Once again, there's a height and there's somebody has a height and we will let the person at the mic speak. Yes, I want to thank first of all all of you for coming and engaging in this process and hearing about your community. It's very important that you're here. I want to thank you all so much for your presentation and I know you're getting paid to come up with this process and I think that's great. However, I wanted to take it back as the original chairman of the Pastry Bridge Restoration Group back in the early 2000s nobody cared about this bridge. Nobody cared about it. Nobody cared about it. We were very dedicated to other people. We were very dedicated. I can't take the number of hours. Volunteer hours. We spent trying to get this bridge renovated. The first leaves we had with the city council people they wanted to hold the bridge up and store it away or move it close to closer to commerce where real people work. Real people work. Real people work. It was a scary place over there by Pastry Bridge. You might remember. We saw person there for many years and we raised a lot of money and it was not easy because there were no constituents when you are trying to raise money for a bridge where you get the money because we kept going and the city every single time we reached the bar they were stunned that we kept at it. So finally the bridge was renovated we had a wonderful as I said it was like Christmas in July it was so exciting and then we started working on the park as I was one of the three members that went to God to get the land dedicated for a park. So we spent a number of years working on the park development working on the park for years and we had so many people professionals should we do a state park should we do an homage to the trains backgrounds that reflected the trains we spent years working on this if we are finally up to 2012 in the middle of the night it was like we ripped away from us because others saw an opportunity to make money on what we gave lonely for free is that we went up we went on field trips to the bridges we got so into it we saw how beautiful they were when there was very little construction underneath of them and it really just perished this morning so we think this ought to be I'm going to go back to it it was originally donated by the Dawson's for a park and because we have anything to gain from it not a single penny we just donated the best for the neighborhood and landmarks left in San Antonio that's right and I want to say 50 years from now are you going to come in give us another 200, 300, 400 million to get rid of all this because it really was it was ripped out from out from under us I don't think it's the best for our community to put this building in I don't think our best for the community is to have it rescheduled thank you our hand is open certainly want to meet with the art if anyone else has thought we're having two to help with the design it's a faculty card we're going on forward just on the record I saw less than half of the hands go up how we do more to your part we came down to a lake start it's now 7.15 and we had till 7 o'clock we're just going to wrap this thing up it's a very casual conversation it's a very difficult conversation that shouldn't have had many many years ago but we are we are now we have to have conversations and keep it keeps being done we learned from very good points we learned about the tax increase that's a great point the city can do so much about that that's a state issue with school taxes but that needs to be addressed how do we bring in developers and community to work together that's what we're trying to do here but maybe this wasn't the right project to do that because of the history because of the passion behind the bridge but we want to believe in that I'm sorry they're going to kick us out at 7.15 you can ask me I'm sorry thank you so much for being here like I said it's a very casual conversation thank you for being here we will continue to have a fun conversation we don't need to talk about the tax just to graduate this year this project is fundamentally disrespectful it hasn't really been acknowledged yet the bridge is quite once upon a time was created as a link for the working class that actually viewed and supported themselves with their communities this bridge just you see that legacy a lot in this room that's what people are talking about that's what people are so attached to about it this project stands fundamentally disrespectful to that legacy and that's what people are still going on now this is especially relevant because San Antonio has actually committed right to their quality how do you have the empire how does our first team come out with a generation that did that to use the public and so this bridge has been impressive despite that presented not as an agent of the world but as a reputation and so that's what these people demand I mean we're talking about communities but they're getting rid of this one