 Welcome to the South Burlington Development Review Board for February 7th, 2023. My name is Dawn Filiburt and I'm the chair of the DRB and I'd like to introduce other board members. We have Stephanie Wyman, Frank Kochman, Mark Baer. Finally. Finally. And from the city of South Burlington, we have Betsy Brown and Marla Keane, who's our development review board planner. This hearing is being recorded and thank you for joining us. There's a couple of ways to participate tonight. The first way is to attend in person, as many of you have done here. The other way is virtually by following the link on our agenda. And you can also call in if you're not joining us virtually on a device. If you do come on any of these ways, attend to any of these ways, please remember to sign in either on the sheet in the back of the room or by registering your contact information on the chat function of the Zoom. Is it Zoom? We use Zoom. Or if you're calling in, please send your email and contact information to M-K-E-E-N-E at southburlington-v-t dot gov. It's important that you be signed in. So if you want to be considered a participant in the future, we have that on record. Let's see, emergency evacuation procedures in the event of an emergency. There are doors in the back of both sides of the auditorium. You would exit those doors and then go either left or right and it would bring you outdoors. Are there any additions, deletions, or changes in the order of agenda items tonight? Yes, item number five will be continued if anyone is here to listen to that for site plan SP-2202 of Naglain Chase. And then item number eight will be rescheduled to February 22nd. Okay, thank you, all right. What about item number nine? The minutes? No, item number nine. 1200 Dorset. Oh, my numbers, my numbers got screwed up. I think there was a glitch. I'm sorry, yeah. Yeah. So item number nine is the 12th 100 Dorset. Is that the rescheduled one? That's the rescheduled to the February 5th second. So can I flip over your shoulder for a second? Sure, sure. Item five is, bear with us, please. Oh, I lost the number for that one. Okay, thank you. I'm all caught up. Okay. Okay. So are there any announcements? We are, we have an opening on the board. So that will be advertised. It may be on our website already, but it's a great opportunity for members of the public to participate in reviewing of projects that are proposed to be built in South Burlington. It's hard work, but it's, I've heard it's very rewarding. I certainly appreciate all my board members. And I appreciate Dan Albrecht, who stepped down to move on to other things. And of course, we always appreciate the great staff. We have Marla, Betsy, and Marty. They work very hard and help the board in many ways. So, okay. Any other announcements? All right. Item number four, are there any comments and questions from the public that are not related to the agenda? Hearing none, we'll move on to item number five, which is going to be continued. And I guess we don't need to vote on this, correct? We do need to make a motion. You need to vote. Yep. Oh, we do. Okay. So would someone do that? Sure. I will make a motion to continue site plan application SB 22056 of beta technologies to February 22nd, 2023. Okay. Thank you, Frank. Any discussion? All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. The motion is carried. All right. Number six on the agenda is continuing, and we don't need to vote on this, Marla? You do. We do. Okay. Can you tell us why, please? The item was continued to sort out some issues with storm water, which I'm sure you saw if you prepared for this item. That material only came in on Friday, and it sounds like our storm water department has some comments on it, so they were unable to do enough back and forth before tonight to get it sorted out. Okay. Thank you. So I would enter to hand a motion to continue this. Did, so someone's here to represent the applicant, I don't know if you wanted to give him an opportunity to speak, or? Oh, sorry. David. Is your mic on? Thanks. Now it is. I can see the light. Again, Dave Marshall on behalf of the applicant. At this point in time, we do not have confirmation from storm water that they are in agreement with regard to our modified design, which was at their request. But that being the background, we have to apologize for taking your time and look to come back in the future. Okay. We will look forward to seeing you in the future. So I would recommend continuing to March 7th. Okay. I would entertain a motion to continue to March 7th. Make a motion. We continue site plan application SB 22-020 of negligence and chase construction to March 7th, 2023. Thank you. Just a second. Thank you, Frank. Any discussion? All in favor of the motion say aye. Aye. Chair votes aye. Any opposed? No. Okay. The motion is carried. We will see you back here on March 7th. Amarillo, just so you know, I've had to abstain from both of those votes because I'm accused on both of those. Question? Yes. So we don't have a quorum to vote for the continuance? If someone is, if we have a vacancy, they still count towards the quorum. So we're still a seven-member board. But if we have a recusal, then they don't count towards the quorum, which makes us a six-member board, which makes three a quorum. Okay. I think we're okay. So we're good. Okay. I had to say that out loud to get it through. Yeah. For my head, though. Good. Thanks, David. Item number seven on the agenda. Site plan application SB 22055 of Burlington International Airport to amend a previously approved plan for an airport complex. The amendment consists of construction of an expansion of the existing taxiway G and construction of a new apron at 1200 Airport Drive. Any recusals? I'm recused. Okay. Thanks, Stephanie. Who is here for the applicant, please? Larry Lackey, director of engineering and environmental compliance, and I have our design engineer and environmental consultant here that can introduce themselves. Hi. Niels Gonzalez with Hoyl Tanner and Associates, the civil designer. What is your name, please? Niels Gonzalez. Neal. N-I-L-S. Did you press the green button? Yeah. Bring it in a little closer to you, Niels. Thanks. Okay. Why not? I'm going to swear you in. We have Jackie. And Jackie Digest from EIV Technical Services as the environmental permitting consultant. Thank you, Jackie. Anyone else? No, that's it. Okay. Thank you, Larry. Raise your right hands, please. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth under penalty of perjury? Yes, I do. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. So we have in front of us a draft decision, and I think it pretty much stands on its own. I did have a couple corrections to it, Betsy, but you could put it on the screen. So all this application was Marty's, and he is home sick this evening. And so in preparing, I just caught a couple little things, you know, I reviewed it so I knew what was going on, and I caught a couple little things in the draft decision, right, where Betsy has shown on the screen. It looked like it was still a little outdated, so I've changed it to say the applicant has met an EPSC plan and suggested the language the board finds the applicant shall comply with the criteria of 1603 and the provisions of the approved plan, which is already our standard condition number eight. And then the other thing I did on the last page is I struck Dan's name from being the board member. Okay. Is that it? That was it. Okay. Do you have any comments to make before we vote? No, unless you want a description or location, whatever you want done. I think we're good. I don't have any questions. Do we take public comment at this point? Yep. We do. Okay. Hold that thought. Are there any members of the public who would like to comment on this? Any online, Betsy? Okay. Hearing none, I guess, so motion to close. Thank you. Do I have a second for the motion to close? Thank you, Frank. Any discussion? All in favor of the motion to close? Say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed? No. Okay. We will close and we will deliberate and let you know. That's the easiest time I've had here. Thank you very much. Thank you. Sometimes we decide to make your life difficult, sometimes we will make it easy. You actually never have. We've had a good time here, so thank you very much. It makes a lot easier when there's no red in our nose. Thank you, Jackie. We tried to work with Marla. Thank you for coming. Thank you all. All right. The next item is design review application DR-2301 of SUSE signs LLC to amend a previously approved master signage permit. This is a request of allowing beige, ivory, and orange as primary colors and green and blue as secondary colors of 59 garden street. So before we go any further, I thought we had no authority over signs. Only me understand this, please. I would be happy to in the extremely, oh, I would know for the record that Stephanie has rejoined the board. In the limited circumstances of the master sign overlay district, which is a portion of the form-based code district, essentially Dorset Street and Williston Road, signs are required to be subject to a master sign. So on multi-tenant properties, there is some requirement for consistency between tenant signs. Okay. Picture actually the judge property with the Barnes & Noble in it. They have those directory signs in the front and all the signs are green with white letters. Okay. And their master sign says all your signs shall be green with white letters. Okay. And then so the Pune property behind us, all the signs have to be below the top of the door. They can't have any signs like up above the doors. This is another one. It's a very funny situation in that this property was tied to the healthy living property when it was originally approved. And then form-based code happened and it got unPUD because PUDs don't exist in form-based code. And now it's a property consisting of Trader Joe's and the EMS. Okay. And so they would like to amend their master sign approval to allow EMS to use the logo that they would like to use. Okay. Thank you. Further note, we are considering proposing to counsel to remove the master sign permanent because there is still a design review overlay which consists largely of the same standards that are in the master sign. And so this would also become administrative. Okay. In the future. But for now, here we are. Okay. Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but the operative verb in the section you cited in the notes was encourage. Okay. Encourage. Encourage using only three primary colors, et cetera. Yes. So it doesn't necessarily suggest that we can veto a different choice. Right. The board has exerted, has encouraged in the past and had conversations. I specifically remember when the board reviewed the master sign permit for Dorset Street Dermatology, they had proposed a consistent set of colors, but then the fonts were all over the place and we kind of highlighted, you know, maybe you would consider fonts and they said that are all the same that, oh yeah, that would look better. You know, in the same way that you would just have a conversation with an applicant on any other matter. In this, this is another one where in preparing to take where Marty's hat or shoes or whatever. I made some minor corrections. So Betsy, if you want to pull those up, please. And then you can hear from the applicant. I guess you need to sign some, swear some folks in. Sure. Hi. Welcome. We also have an applicant online, I believe. Okay. Tell us who's here for the applicant. Hi, my name is Jason Gagnon. I'm here on behalf of Susa signs and in the crowd, you should be able to find Mary Johns from Easter Mountain Sports. I am here actually in the hardly crowd, but she's speaking without my microphone turned on, but I'm from corporate Easter Mountain Sports. Yeah. Right. Thank you for coming. I'm going to swear you in. Would you raise both of you raise your right hands, please. Do you soundly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing, but the truth under penalty of perjury? Yes. Yes. Okay. Tell us, you know, three minutes. What are you trying to do? So a couple of years back, we redid our logo. You might remember when we were in Burlington. Can you hear me right? When we were in Burlington at the judge property, we had the blue and white logo under Dorset Street. Yep. And then Burlington. I'm from Connecticut. Okay. All right. So we did do a redesign of our logo and it has, as you saw, like the mountain and the little river to give us more of a brand recognition. Uh-huh. And we really wanted to keep to that new branding that we've designed. It's on all of our apparel. It's on all of our garment tags. So we wanted to maintain that. Okay. So questions from the board? I guess my only question for, um, is more for staff is, other than the color issue, are their sizes fine? Um, their size, their, their previously approved master sign permit did not have any limitations on sizes. Okay. Um, it did have limitations on, um, materials and I think maybe placement and what they're proposing is consistent with those. There's on the street side, we couldn't cover the window. Got it. The only, the only thing that they're proposing that they would need a modification of the master sign is the colors. Um, and so I've actually prepared a modified decision because I reviewed the previous approval. Betsy, if you want to flip to the revised findings that you have open now, I hope the other one revised to the left. Um, so I've changed it to say the addresses of both buildings on the property. And then what I discovered in the DR-1304, which is the previously approved master sign permit is that green was previously a primary color. Um, this decision, the previous, the draft decision that was in your packet listed it as a secondary color. I'm sorry. Let me start over. The previous approval said background colors and colors that filled in words were primary and things that were small words on the edges were secondary. So I've changed green to be primary because they'd like that as a background color. Um, and taken it out from the list of blue. And if you keep scrolling down, you can see the other changes that I made. Um, so that's the same thing. Um, and then I added the sentence about how it used to be tied to healthy living and now it's not. And I didn't go into the why of that because if where you get rid of master signs is not going to matter in a year anyway. Um, and then I, instead of saying the trader Joe's signage was approved, signs are not approved in master sign permits. So if you were to get, if the board order approved this, you still have to get a sign permit. This is to set you up to get a sign permit. It's sort of like if you've got a site plan approval, you'd still have to get your building permit. Um, so I changed this to say that this was the previously approved master sign permit. No big deal. Keep going. This is more about the first changes are about that green being a background color and being primary. Um, I added the sentence about how primary colors are the logo fill in background and secondary colors are for text backgrounds and borders. Um, and then I kind of clarified a little bit more. What the, uh, what the colors would be if the board were to approve it. Um, and if the board had cut out the colors that weren't used anymore, I think that was it for changes. If you want to keep scrolling. It's the brick here. Yeah. And then yeah. It's a freestanding pier that the sign sit on. Oh, I, that was the, no, I changed the condition to be what was in the other paragraph. So if you want to go back to that other paragraph, I think that was the biggest change. Okay. And then you took Dan's name off. I took Dan's name off at the end. Okay. Questions from the board. Nope. I'm just, I'd be honest and say I'm really excited that the DMS is back. And I don't miss pier one. I shouldn't say that public meetings, but. Hey, thanks for having to be back. Yeah. Not that anything is pure one. I'm just glad. No, no. Okay. Um, so thank you. Um, Mary. Um, let's take a pause now and ask if there are any members of the public who would like to comment. Sure. Um, is there anyone here representing the owner of the property? No. Okay. So it's just you guys representing EMS. Correct. And, um, Jason has the approval from the landlord. Right. Design. Okay. Um, the reason I asked that question is if the board were to cut out, I'd be interested in knowing if the owner of the property had any interest in keeping those signed colors that are no longer used. Um, because our proposal was to remove the ones that aren't being used. Um, but if they were saying, oh, we're probably going to put in an ATM in the next couple of years and it might want these colors or we might want these colors or we heard through the grapevine that Trader Joe's is changing their colors. Often in the next couple of years, isn't the master sign permit going to go away in less than a year? Yeah. That's our objective. Right. Yeah. We don't know of anything in the pipeline that's planning on changing this site, but I thought it'd be prudent to ask if we had the opportunity. Okay. Um, okay. Uh, so we need to vote on closing this hearing. Make a motion. We close master signage permit. Dr 2301 of. Sousa signs LLC. Thank you, Mark. Do I have a second? Thanks, Frank. Any discussion? All in favor of closing. Uh, DR 2301 say aye. Hi. Any opposed? Motion is carried. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thanks, Jason. Thank you. Thank you. Now, number nine. Um, yep. So that one I have rescheduled, um, the meeting, the public notice requirements were not met. So I have rescheduled that to February 23rd and they have assured me that they will be able to meet those public notice requirements. So do we need to vote on continuing this? No. No, okay. Uh, no, because no one had the opportunity to even know that it existed. Ah, okay. Okay. All right. The minutes of January 18th. Everyone read them. Anyone, uh, propose adoption? Well, you got a problem because I'm going to, you have a quorum for that purpose? Yep. We do? I'm going to abstain here. You can still vote. You're still part of the quorum though, even if you abstain, aren't you? Yeah. I'm still the abstaining. All right. That's good enough. Yeah. Okay. All right. All in favor of approving minutes of January 18th, 2023 say aye. Aye. Opposed? Abstain. Abstain. Frank. Okay. Other business? Um, yeah. I want to talk about officers. Um, hang on. Okay. Okay. So with Dan stepping down, we need a vice chair. And I think you all understand the vice chair is responsibilities that are to cover for the chair when chair can't be here or if the chair is recused. Um, I was going to propose, we talk about it at the next meeting, because I don't really like letting it ride for too long. Is that when two members are missing, this is a great opportunity to nominate them. Oh, good idea. I don't know. Um, so what do you guys want to do? Do you want to just, do you want to just vote the next meeting? Do you want to give, um, Quinn and John, I can call them individually and let them know that we'll be voting at the next meeting. Okay. Does that seem reasonable? Okay. And we don't know how quickly the city council will fill the other slot. Um, I could check to see if it's been posted, though it seems I'm not on our network right now. Yeah, I'm not either. But that's a year on. So I don't know. Is it on or has it been posted? All right. That's just going to check to see if it says, um, on the committee, website. So there's just a general committee website under. Committee's boards. Under government. Is listed as having a vacancy. Does it say when you go by bike? It's rolling. Applications are requested by Wednesday, February 15th. Um, interviews to begin on February 21st. Okay. Good. So if we could potentially have someone by March, March, March, March, March, March, March, March, March, March or March at the next meeting. Okay. Anything else? Um, I would like folks to stay for. Deliverations afterwards and I had the couple. Thoughts on how we might be a little bit more efficient in d Rb meetings as well that. Maybe we'll. Get 30. We did great tonight. We were out by seven, number five. I know that, I had nothing on these. Um, Other business if you want to officially end the meeting I don't think we have any members online So we can just end the online. I think the meeting has ended. We will now go into deliberative session