 Welcome back. It's time for our very first hot topic. I want to take a look at the troops that have been deployed to the South East by the Chief of Army staff to counter iPops sit-at-home order. That order was given by Finland-based pro-Biafra agitator Simon Ekba, who has said that with effect from Monday, July 31, that two weeks sit-at-home will be enforced in the South East to demand for the immediate and unconditional release of Masi Namdi Kano, amongst other requests that he has. I've been joined by Reverend Joseph John Hayap, Chairman, Cairn Cardinal State, who's joining us this morning from Cardinal State. Good morning to you, Reverend John Hayap. Good morning and best of the day to all our viewers. Thank you so much, Reverend. Reverend, how are you looking at this? How are you processing this latest development regarding the insecurity situation in the South East? The federal government is deploying troops down there to counter this order by pro-Biafra agitator Simon Ekba. Well, let me begin my response by applauding the Chief of Army staff. When General Laguagia was sent to the One Macanize Division in Kaduna, for those of us who followed his activities and antecedent, he came out in full force. He went out and led the troop to fish out bandits, to fish out terrorists that have been tormenting and denying the people of Kaduna peace. Unfortunately, the power that be at that time, for reason they know that we may not know, decided to pull him out immediately and sent him to a new post. I am happy to debate because we are still around that this same man that we applaud, this same man that we cherish, this same man that we believe had a good intention, is now the Chief of Army staff. And the essence of this change in the service chief was to inject a new spirit to checkmate the insecurity that has debatable the entire country, not just the South East. So to me, this is a welcome development. Now to the issue of the South East. It is sad and unfortunate that in this age, some characters or individuals for whatever reason would choose to straddle problems for their people. Every Nigeria, irrespective of region or identity, knows that things have not been going well across this country in the past years. But you cannot, for whatever reason, stop your whole people from doing their legitimate businesses, from going to school, from going about doing what will help them and ask them to sit at home for a particular day. And you are not government. You are a non-state actor. You are saying that what you want is a Biafra Nation. If you want to be Biafra Nation, you don't go like that to get the Biafra Nation. That means that even if you get the Biafra Nation, the people you are claiming or you are parodying yourself to be defending, we are going to be terrorized. So I find the way and the approach of IPOC quite ridiculous, not matured to today's war. I feel that there are better ways that this group of people can point out their demands and insist their demands are met than what they are saying. Recently, the photos and the kind of information we read about those who parent themselves as the leaders of this group that are forced into innocent citizens to sit at home. They don't even have integrity. Neither do they have a good testimony of life. But they are just exploiting the pens and the sorrow, the poor leadership that we are having in this country and saying that they are fighting for the people. And in reality, they are only just fighting for themselves. I want to challenge those who care to listen. That unless our government sit up and show that in this country we have a government, we have powers that we have authority, we have a constitution, and no one will just come and terrorize fellow citizens. We will be in problem. If you think that what they are doing is good and you clap for them, another new group will come. Years back, the government of Nigeria faced the United States volunteers as they called themselves. They terrorized people. We knew how they were dealt with before they stopped. And we know the other group of Boko Haram. And we later came with bandits in Northwest. So we can allow our country to be hijacked by some people, hiding under whatever guise to say they want to fight for people. Well, in reality, they are enjoying themselves abroad. They are having a field day. They don't even care where those people go. Look, I have traveled to many parts of the South East. The fact is that in the last four months or three months, I have been to many places. I can see the commitment of local women, villagers, because I actually went to villages, not cities. I only slept in the city, but every day I go to certain villages. See the commitment, the desire by the people to come out and end a living. The desire by the people to come out and have something to feed their children. The desire by the people to come out and make sure they have something that they can feed their children's food. And you just sit and say, nobody comes out in the whole day. Have you have their economy? Have you have their life? Have you have them in anything? Have you really sit down with them and know what they want and how they want you to go? I think something is wrong. So I applaud the Chippupamistab. And I pray that he's not just going to be with IFO. These kind of groups that I imagine from different areas in Nigeria or different regions in Nigeria and terrorizing Nigeria have a good feeling that they are quite important people. Should know that we have a government. Yeah, it's interesting to have you commend General Tariq Lagbajan saying that he's done well in the past. And I find that quite commendable. However, I also know that no government worth is sought would negotiate with terrorists, right? So indeed, move in the right direction. However, how would you respond to those who are saying, look, what is happening with this case is a very peculiar one in the sense that the I-POP man, Masi Kano Nandi has been, a court has ordered for his release. And the states, the Southeast Governors, a lot of them and their leaders indeed have called for the release of this man. Shouldn't the first step at arriving or achieving peace in that region be to release this man? Well, that's another issue altogether. I don't subscribe to government or the executive to refuse to obey the order of the court. We should be governed by the rule of law, which means as a citizen and also our government must obey our court. If we don't obey the judgment of our court we are calling for anarchy. So those who have the powers those who are responsible for this, most listening if the court have ruled that the man should be given on bail allow him go and then watch over and watch all his movement. After all, we know the effort government put in and the amount of the kind of investment government did to fetch this man out there or to arrest this man wherever they arrested him and brought him back to Nigeria. That means the man has nowhere to go and hide and they cannot fish him out. So government must learn to obey court orders. But we see as we ask government to obey court orders we must also tell those who are also taking the laws into their hands that what they are doing is wrong. The whole of the South East is made up of highly intelligent people is made up of highly organized people is made up of highly successful people is made up of highly placed elders with good experience. Can they exploit a way of dialogue? Can they exploit a way of putting some kind of pressure on government to release this Nnamdi Karnu and I think there's nothing wrong in the releasing him as long as the court has ruled so. But what we don't want is that some people hiding in the name of Nnamdi Karnu or hiding on the name of iPhone and terrorizing, unfortunately they are actually terrorizing their innocent brothers and sisters. They are denying them the peace and the joy they are supposed to have. They are hindering them from going out to do their business and to seek for their daily source of livelihood. So what kind of struggle is that? A struggle that you end up destroying yourself? That's not struggle. A struggle is to find peace for yourself, is to find freedom for yourself, is to find joy for yourself, is to find opening for yourself. But a freedom that you end up terrorizing your own. So after getting the freedom and the people are dead because of hunger who will succeed, who will remain in the Biafran nation? As much as I understand what they are agitating for and as much as we want fairness and justice in Nigeria but we should be to call this group that you are not doing it right, you are not doing it in a civilized way, you are not doing it in a mature way, you are not doing it as people who understand. You are instead terrorizing your people. So that's why government can hide and call them terrorists and will not negotiate with them. But if they are limited to the issue of really fighting for their people everybody will understand. After all, my people in South Dakota also have their consign and troubles with this government. Other people in other regions of this country also have their consign and trouble with this government. Let's assume all these groups just come out now. They wouldn't have a country. And we don't have a country then who are you going to be discussing with? I want them to do or to seek for the release of Nnamdi Kanu but not at the expense of the joy, the freedom of their local people who do not even understand what is going on. Indeed. We've seen videos. How did they survive? We've seen videos. We've heard reports of people who have been killed, maimed, properties burnt in the southeast. The growth of that region has been stunted. Definitely no investor would go to the southeast for anything. Matter of fact, being deployed or transferred. Any day they are enforcing that order of seat at home. You beat people. No, no, that's not human. That's the violation of the right of the people. They don't just love them. They also kill them. How do you violate the right of people when you want freedom? Reverend, my question is this. Having looked at how this whole drama is affecting that region, would you say that the movers and shakers of the Igbo people, among the Igbo people, you just alluded to the fact that they have great people from that area. Would you accept the fact that, or accept the opinion in some quarters that they are not doing enough on their own to put an end to this, to arrest this situation, the Igbo people, the movers and shakers among the Igbo people? The response to that, your statement or that your question is a yes and no. It's no because if you look at the characters placing this seat at home order, their attitude, their lifestyle, you may be tempted to conclude that they are the kind who do not listen to anybody. It seems those leaders and those old great men of the Igbo land may have tried to help them see, but as far as they are concerned, they see those people as failure, so they just want to do things their own way. And there's a limit to how you can force yourself on people if you're advising them. Sometimes those people may have advised them and they terrorize the people or terrorize members of their families, and they are trying to avoid that and they don't want to go into this real conflict looking at the situation at the moment. So that is one side of it. The other side of it is well, most of those who are actually making this agitation, you know are not living in this country. They are actually having a field. Exactly. The Igbo man is based in Finland. I call it a field. They enjoy themselves going to the beach and having fun. Well, so who do you even talk to? Now, these are people that if you carry your phone and call them, the chances is that they will record your voice, go and change the whole conversation and present and blackmail you. So everybody is so scared of even discussing with them. And that's why as Nigerians we must collectively tell each other the truth. I am a Nigerian. My father fought in the Igbo war. The fact is that my father was among those Amis that were forced to retire prematurely because they were injured during the war. And I feel time has come that Nigerians must go together, work together and unite. But the way and manners of people will just take all of us for granted and to take us for a ride. I think we don't know what we are doing. It's not good enough for Nigeria. Yeah, but the fact that some of these... It's not good enough for the region that they are protecting. It's not good enough for even the future of the kind of governance we want to see in Nigeria. If our government is bad, we have other ways we can collectively put pressure on them to change and meet up with the current realities of the war. But you just come up and terrorise everybody and I give a picture that does not exist and I have met many part of the stories that comes out from typo. I am sad that over 85% of the stories are just fake stories that cannot make any sense. Reverend, the fact that some of these non-state actors are not based in Nigeria, like Simon Iqba, for instance, based in Finland, does it mean that their people should not... Iqba people are all over the place. All over the place. Very successful, very strong, very powerful men and women, home and abroad. It still doesn't mean that they shouldn't be able to arrest this situation. Nip it in the butt. Matter of fact, years back, they should have... I saw a video recently inditing some Iqba sons and daughters over the same matter. And I'm saying, can't they or couldn't they have done more or better in securing the lives of their people and their region before now? Well, in the past eight years, the drama surrounding these agitations and the crime was like a full analysation agenda. Unfortunately, unfortunately, for us now, that era is over. I can see effort by the current, some of the governors in some of the Southeast states beginning to storm the authority and say, no, no more. I just don't want them to speak to the media. I want them to act. I want them to join force with the Chief of Army staff and every other security agency to ensure that this evil stopped. So, if it has not started on time, now something has started. Let's even look at what the Chief of Army staff is doing. He needs the support of their governors. He needs the support of their stakeholders. Even in the past, they were afraid to talk. In the past, they have spoken by those group that didn't listen to them. Now that there's a commitment from government, now that there's a commitment from the security agency, please support them and let's bring to a stop this. Let the story of sitting at home be an old story. People shouldn't just have a particular day that they cannot go out. People shouldn't just have a particular day that some faceless individuals are denying them even to go out and seek for their death because so many innocent people out of their quest to get food or get their daily living came out on such dates and were killed or men or injured for no reason. I think that's where some of us as Nigerians are saying, stop this. Let's stop this. Let's do this. Okay. You can continue your Biafra agitation. You have other ways to do it. You may even have support from other places, but please don't torment and terrorize innocent people who have no understanding of exactly what you are doing, who are not even enjoying one quarter of what you are enjoying and you are claiming to be fighting for them. You can't fight for us and you are living such kind of life and you are putting us in pain. I think that's more fight. If it is a fight you want for us, let's fight and feel the pains together. Let's fight and feel the deprivation together. Let's fight and feel the denial together. If it is really sitting at home, come and let's sit at home together so that we know you really mean sitting at home. Are they, can they honestly tell Nigerians that on such date they also sit at home? No, they are somewhere doing their businesses. So that sit at home order to me does not make any impact because you've not stopped work in Ahuja. Neither have you stopped businesses in Kanu. Neither have you stopped businesses in Lagos. Neither have you stopped anything going on in Koyi. You just torment your people, particularly your people, the one you are claiming to be fighting for. I'm not sure that's the wise way of doing it. And now that there is an effort from the Chief Obamistar and I believe that back by the new president the key Igbo leaders, the responsible Igbo elders should support this. If anybody had accused in the past that you were not supportive now you've gotten an opening. And there was no opening for you to give support. Now there is an opening. So let's see what goes on from now forward so that we don't do too much in the past and do the blame game. Now that an opportunity has given itself, make itself available, let's capitalize on it and stop this. The people of Southeast Nigeria must be free. The people of Southeast Nigeria must be happy. The people of Southeast Nigeria should enjoy their freedom. No one should trample on their right, hiding under fighting for them when in reality he's actually doing his serve agenda. All right. There is also an anger to this whole Biafra agitation thing that I should probably ask you about. How would you respond to those who feel that the Nigerian state itself has not been fair to the region of the Southeast region? There have been lots of injustices and probably some have also said there's been lack of genuine concern for the welfare and well-being of people of the Southeast. And also, why do you think that governments, the last government and this government, does not appear from the body languages that we've seen to be interested in probably having some sort of discussion with Innamdikano as some have advocated? Okay. Well, let's put it this way. The previous government was not fair to more than 80% or 70% of Nigerians. It's not just the Southeast people. The last administration was not fair to my people, was not fair to all the sides of Nigerians. But the groups, because of certain reasons, didn't tarry dagger against government and do not show that they were not angry with government. We did voice out our concern. We did cry out and show Nigerians that things are not going well. There was this agenda that we didn't understand. So, the Southeast is not exempted. But let's quickly also go a little bit backward. Now, the Southeast is being honest with Nigeria and tell Nigeria what happened from 1999 to today. If you want to go and look at status, the Southeast has benefited from Nigerian government from 1999, till Bohari's government to be candid. Let's be honest to ourselves and stop this game. Look at the appointment. They've had central bank government. They've had the minister of finance. They have, even in the last document, one minister that served long was the minister of foreign affairs. He's either from Delta or at least of the Igbo Instruction. We have also other ministers that served long. It is not just like that. My tribe have not also produced precedent. Other tribes have not also produced precedent. So, this thing is a Nigerian challenge that we have to collectively sit down and address it, collectively sit down and fight it so that there will be a true federal character, a respected federal character in Nigeria. It's not just an Igbo thing. It is also about me. It's also about other tribes in Nigeria. So, as the Biafra or Apua are fighting, let them remember that there are other Nigerians who also are aggrieved with the way things are. So, why don't they seek to connect with other Nigerians who also feel the same, so that the fight will not just be a tribal fight or one regional fight, but a larger Nigerian group who feel disenchanted, who feel not being carried along by Nigerian government. But if we are going to look at statutes, it is not fair for such group to actually say they are not. In the government of Good Luck, Jonathan, from the SSG to a key office, policy makers and certain office holders was, in the whole time of Obasenjo, the Senate presidents, demands that they were given the slot of the Senate President in the eight years because of certain things they know better than we do. They keep having issues that they change up to within one administration, the same administration, they had over four or five people who went from the same instruction, serving as Senate President. If at that time as lawmaker, and if it was Senate President of Nigeria that killed the third time of Obasenjo, how could that also have worked for them, for him to bring up certain laws during his time as Senate President that would have corrected some of the things we are doing. So sometimes people throw over accusation as if nothing has ever come to them. They should also look back that certain things actually came to them. We will not even have a deputy speaker in my village, or in my area, or a deputy, or a minority leader in the Senate, or in the House of Brave in my area. So they are better off. And you see, the problem we have in this country, which we must address is, people just think that everything in Nigeria falls down on Igbo, Hausa, and Europe. But no, the larger groups make up Nigeria are more than these three groups. But because the way and manner we present this country, people just assume there's no other person except these three, no. There are larger people. So let's think Nigeria, let's respect others in Nigeria, let's keep opportunity, let's understand that others too are not happy with the things going on. So let's now find a way of connecting, working together with those other people who feel the same way we feel so that we can force correction, we can force the change, we can force good governance in our country. But when we terrorize our people in the guys that we want government to listen to us, to me it is not right. For government, Namdikalu have been arrested by you. You've taken him to court. You have kept him long. The courts have ruled. So obey the law. You see, unless and until our government start understanding that the reason why we are having confessions and groups coming out to fight the nation is because we ourselves have not obeyed our rules. Once we obey court orders and then make it clear that if you violate our rules we will deal with you. That is a good place. We also must act in accordance with the law. So obeying court orders is a different ball game but it's sad that government is doing that and we want our government to start respecting the rule of law. That is a perfect place to end this conversation Reverend Joseph Hayab. Let's think Nigeria. Thank you so much for your time. It's always a pleasure discussing with you. I hope things are getting better in Kaduna State. You had said that you were hopeful that with the new governor that things may take a new turn in Kaduna State. Are you seeing any signs, any ray of light there now? Well, at the moment the situation in the country is calming down and yet there are pockets of kidnappings and attacks but not as pronounced as it was in the past likely because the bandits or the terrorists are not so sure to follow up and they are careful not to put themselves in trouble and we want those in authority to keep that temple let the bandits be on the run not sitting down to be strategized. The reason why they had a few days eight years ago was they were sitting down comfortably just strategizing what to do next what to do next. Nobody was keeping them on the run and that's why they can keep people and have to give them food because they are living in comfort. Thank you so much Reverend Joseph Hayab. You're welcome. Reverend Joseph John Hayab Chairman Kent Kaduna State was our guest on the first hot topic. Time for our second hot topic. We'll bring that right now after this moment. Stay with us.