 So I'll read our little intro allowing a Zoom meeting while and see if more people filter into the waiting room while I do that. So hello everybody. As chair of the Rochester Select Board, I find that due to the state of emergency declared by Governor Scott as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic and pursuant to addendum 6 to Executive Order 01-20 and Act 92, this public body is authorized to meet electronically. And in accordance with Act 92, there's no physical location to observe and listen contemporaneously to this meeting. However, in accordance with the temporary amendments to the open meeting law, I confirm that we're providing public access to the meeting using the Zoom platform. And you can hear somebody else that wants to get in there, and you can get access to that by either going to the town website to be the connectivity pathways or look at the posted minutes around town or request a direct email invite from the town clerk. And that's, so just, and that's, that you, Danny, and Manzanita, that just entered. Yeah, I'm going to meet, and Nancy's going to be here too. So we have, I think everyone, there's no mysterious phone number identity. So I think that we can move forward, welcome everyone, you know what this is about. This is basically a hearing about the application on the town is submitting on behalf of the committee that is researching the options for repurposing the high school building. And we have Vic and Catherine here as representatives of that committee that can really present what this grant application entails and what it's asking for. And I think that I will let them take it away from here. Okay. Thanks, Dune, and good evening, everybody. I'll give a few comments about the grant application, what it's for, and Catherine will add to that. And then I think we'll just open it up to comments, questions. It's to take public comment and ask questions come up, we'll try to answer them as best we can. And then just, you know, goes along as people want to talk. So just going to be clear, this hearing is about the grant application, it is not about a decision for the town to either acquire or not acquire the high school building. It's purely about this grant proposal that the town is going to submit to do a feasibility study on some program concepts for the building. It's a $58,000 request. It's going to the Vermont community development program, which is a program of the agency of commerce and communication of the state. The source of money is the federal department of housing and urban development that then flows through the state and then to the successful applicants. So the money, that's the source of the funding. It's really, it's to provide a feasibility study and that is the purpose of which is to enable the town, meaning both the select board and the voters of the town to evaluate if and how what would be the most effective use of the high school building with a newer purpose. So it involves a project proposal that is cited in the application itself, if you had an opportunity to read it, it's on the town website and it's spelled out in quite a bit of detail there. But just quickly to summarize, it's to meet identified local and regional needs more than just the town of Rochester, but really the Quintown area in some cases even beyond for childcare, adult daycare, enhance the economic development and the creative economy through the creation of a makerspace and we're calling Arts and Learning Center as well as support other complementary uses that the community needs and what we feel benefit from. So the actual work itself, the $58,000 to be spent on consulting services where experienced consultants who know and have done feasibility work like this would be engaged to prepare a master site or master plan for the building itself would assess the physical condition and improvement requirements to meet the the needs of the programs that are intended for the repurposed building and and do an overall operating budget for those set of programs. You know, what would the revenue look like? What would the expense look like? The bottom line would it break even? Would it not? If not, by how much and to assess possible funding sources for those for those improvements to the building as well as if there's a deficit is determined. So that's in a nutshell the work that would be conducted in the scope of this feasibility study. In addition to those identified needs, there are or maybe other needs that will pop up during the course of the study and we can take a look at those as well. The one idea that has been suggested to us from the Green Mountain Economic Development Corporation is take a look at the housing that is a that is a clear need in all parts of Vermont and they've asked us to take a look at housing low income housing as an option as well. But that's not within the scope of what we have intended to propose in the in the grant. But we'll take a look at that too. Well, this as as Vic said the the most recent draft is has been posted on the town website. It is a rather dense document 26 pages but it follows the specific questions asked of the planning grant and it's been really a year with the exception of a few months of the shutdown of the covid where we were our attention was elsewhere of many people from the community engaging in and various zoom meetings, even some face to face focus group meetings over the summer mass to socially distance. We I think it's the consent. I know it's the consensus of everyone who has worked on this project and has responded by email to the to the email account that we set up early on is that the the building itself has enduring significance beyond being a public high school as a place for intergenerational activities and social engagement and learning and I think you'll find that the proposal, the 5 components of that proposal literally aligned with this. We the committee has all felt that we still want to keep the the wing of the building that houses the auditorium, which is the only audit the only auditorium space like that in the entire Quintown area with a 300 plus capacity, right? Ampli theater seating. There is no other facility like that around and we want to keep that accessible to the to the school district as well. So we don't have everything figured out, which is why we want the feasibility study. We feel that it's important to have the professional consultants to do a well researched assessment of everything so that the town can have factual information as much as possible to be informed to vote on whether or not the town should acquire the building. So again, as Vic said, this is not tonight about acquiring the building. It's about getting the planning grant money to do the assessment to decide whether we're going to acquire the building because even though it's it could be ours for a dollar, we want to make sure that it's not a gift that keeps on taking, which I know that some folks are concerned about. So we want to make sure that it remains a town asset and one that can pay for itself. And we've got several members of our committee here who could speak to their specific thing. Dick, would you like to talk to the makerspace or Robert? Jeff has been involved in the energy assessments and Dorothy and some other people have been on the arts and learning committee. So please feel welcome to jump in to talk about how you envision how this multi-use facility is going to be a benefit to whatever has been your focus of interest in the months that we've all worked together. Robert. Before we go off into that, I'd like to speak to two points. One is matching grant. I mean, what we have to have for a match for the grant and two, how this aligns with the town and regional plans. I can speak to the first point. There's a 10% required matching grant. So $58,000 is the amount of funds we're seeking. So $5,800 for a match which can be in cash or in kind service or any combination of the two. So what we're proposing to the agency is a $2,000 cash match plus $3,800 in valued volunteer time match. And they value volunteer time. I didn't realize it was this valuable, but it's $25 an hour. It's their rate that they credit volunteer time. And we would do the $2,000 would come from a community fundraising match. It would not come from the town budget or reserve funds or anything of that nature. There's also a small amount of in kind service. It's less than $1,000 of Joan Allen's time as part of a contribution. Again, in kind service. It's not new expenditure for the town. And the second point about how it fits in with the town and regional plans. All right. I can speak to the town plan. We went through it on Tuesday night. And the planning commission found all of the proposed uses consistent with our vision. Both the plan and the zoning and the chair of the planning commission is writing a letter to that effect. With respect to the regional plan, we had some help from the council on road development. And they went through the regional plan and it's consistent. And we're getting a letter as well from the regional planning commission. And those are covered in items number seven, number eight in the grant document. And those letters will be attached. Letters are still trickling in, but they are coming in. I mean, I could quote to you from that. Is that what you want, Robert? No, I just wanted a overview on it. So, Dick, would you like to speak to the makerspace? Sure. So, a makerspace is a facility that would probably be a membership facility where anybody from the community can come and use tools and instruction to make whatever. The hope would be that it would have woodworking, metalworking, electronics lab, facilities like 3D printers and computer-controlled routers, things like that, that people can learn to use. And the further hope is that there might be a connected business incubator space where somebody who is trying to set up a business, whether they use the makerspace or not for prototyping or small production, but a space where there would be shared office equipment and low-cost space so that they can get going on a business. So, we're hoping that this would be a facility that would attract people from the community who are just looking to learn how to make things, want to meet other people who are making things, but there will also be a draw, a business draw, and that it also could be used by the school and its STEM programs where they could come use tools, use things like 3D printer and so forth. And there is a lot of equipment in the present wood shop, which would be wonderful if the high school building can retain those things. And we already have some donations of equipment for that use. I would like to say that, you know, this isn't just pie in the sky, we're actually modeling a lot of our plans on the mint, which is a makerspace in Rutland, and not only have they survived the pandemic, although they took a big hit, they are already, I just was reading on their website, they've expanded their space. So, they're in a growing mode. It's a good indication that it's a very feasible project. I guess it's just a question of how many people we could attract. They have a very vibrant program where they use, where they have businesses who come, are making products using the equipment, and this is something that they encourage. So, there are several businesses, including one business that has placed all their whole large room full of equipment down there, and they use it for the business, but also share it with the facility. So, you know, there's a lot of potential in that sort of shared use, not only for private individuals, but for businesses. They also have an entrepreneurial program, so that helps people interested in startup business in a mentoring process. I think the intergenerational education aspect of this proposal is what makes it very exciting, because adult education is not so easily available around here, and this could truly potentially, you know, provide that opportunity for the region. So, the other thing with the co-working spaces, the building that was empty for so long across from the chef's market in Randolph, that they've turned themselves into co-working, and they have 17 units, and only four available. So, that's a very encouraging sign about the, you know, the popularity of that kind of co-working space. And as Rochester becomes increasingly, you know, a recreation destination, the idea of even having a potential, what they call the passport program, where people who are doing the, exploring the natural resources across the state when they come to Rochester to be able to have some sort of an office space available to them, so that they're, I mean, not only accommodations for overnight, but office accommodations. So, we're exploring all the, you know, the possibilities with that kind of space that will certainly help economic development. Lord, do you want to talk about childcare? I do. I was going to say that's a good spot for me to jump in and talk about what we are doing with our early childcare group. I'm the preschool teacher at Rochester Elementary School. For those of you who don't know me, I work with Burley Griffith. I've been there for seven years, so I know a lot of the young families in town, and I know the grandparents and the need of the young families. And being in Rochester for a number of years, I've been there during the time that the high school building was closed, too. But I have a draw to do something in that space. And because I do, a couple years ago, I met with the fire marshal to see what he would approve as space that would support an early childcare program. So I know from him where he would say this is where occupancy would be granted without much having to happen to the space, which is the first real step when you open up a childcare. So knowing that space was encouraging, but then we had to pause things. And so now that we're in a new part of being able to soon hopefully go into the high school building and do new things, we've made some steps with forming a childcare board for this new childcare. Kate and Hamlin is on it, myself, Burley Griffith, and Michaela Richardson, a preschool parent and a business owner. So having come together, we are now a non-profit child care because knowing the childcare world, you want to be a non-profit so you can receive the most grants as a childcare, which will give to sustainability of the business because the childcare is great, but there's also the business side of it that needs to be considered. To see what the real need is, we've put out a survey to the local population, which yielded very positive results. So we know that immediately opening, we would have a full classroom for, we were first thinking of afterschool for preschool children because I know that there's that need immediately. For state money, where the state has money for grants is for toddler and infant spaces because those are so difficult to find across the state anywhere you go. So we would look to open up with a afterschool preschool program and have toddler care during the day. And as the need continues to grow, we could expand hopefully, but that's where we are right now. So when things are further along, we can move along with them, but right now we're just in full support of this grant to get to the next step. We've also gotten a letter of support from the One Planet out of the Supervisory Union. They conduct the summer programs as well as the afterschool and they're very supportive and want to be involved in this as well. And I feel that having these facilities all under the same roof will have a mutual benefit. To have an arts and learning center with a child care and adult care will give a potential for expanding the programs of those facilities. Lauren and I spoke and I think the whole child care group spoke about, you know, the idea of really Reggio Emilia, for anybody who knows that philosophy, this incredible child care program that came out of Reggio Emilia, Italy, which really brought the arts into the core of the learning process. So exciting, incredible work. And they are also excited and aligned with that. So it just to me just seems like there is incredible potential at a time when our school budgets for the arts is shrinking. So, you know, it's really that we're offering what is not necessarily as available through the public school system. Robert? You're muted, Robert. Yeah, we are muted. I'm sorry. Lauren, would you speak to the previous experience with child care facilities that members of your group have? Yeah, I have taught at Rochester for seven years. I also run my own child care business in Plymouth during the summers. And at that facility, it's at the old Plymouth Elementary School. So I've been through the process where an old school gets converted into a community center. Burley has worked with me for four years and has achieved his associates degree since working in Rochester and is committed to the early education field. And to have a male in early education is very rare and wonderful. I'll let Caden speak to where she is at with her career in child care. I think she's better at that. Thank you. I am a licensed early child or a certified early childhood educator. And I have previously been a preschool teacher for two years. So like Lauren have experience of the Wazoo in comparison. But I have experience in child care. I'm also pursuing an elementary ed degree and I have a little bit left as well. Yeah. Robert Gardner, I started. Do you want to say something? You're muted. Yeah. There we go. You hear me? Yeah, I would do. Yeah. I didn't. I wasn't signaling that I did. Oh, I thought you were just scratching your head. Okay. Yeah. All right. Okay. The two robbers said to either render my screen to put their hands up at the same time. Martha, you have something you want to say? I just wanted to comment that I think that all the many uses for the building that is one in particular that I'm very much in favor of. I think it could be not only a wonderful asset for the young families already in town who need child care help, but it could be a way to attract more young families to town, knowing that there's something like a facility like this available. Speaking as someone who moved here 36 years ago with three very young kids, one of whom was just turned one, I did use take advantage of using dandelion daycare for my younger one in particular. And it was a godsend to me and to many other young families. So I'm just thinking that this could be, like I said, a way to not only help the ones that are here, but attract others. We don't want our population to shrink and it's wonderful to have young families with young kids. Which actually brings up the other aspect, which is the other end of the age demographic is the, you know, adult day care. So being a long time advocate and case manager for the central month with an office right here in Rochester, gosh, 24 years last month, that's too long. Anyway, I can speak very candidly to the elder demographic of which many of us are actually approaching it. And, and the challenges of long term care. I have a very large, what they call choices for care, that's a long term care program in the state of Vermont, which pays for long term care on a home base waiver or in some sort of a residential facility. But all of my clients are at in the community receiving their services at home. And one of the biggest challenges for caregivers is a daytime care, not just sitting them in front of a television set, but actually providing mentally challenging activities and social engagement. And again, transportation is a big deal. There's one, you know, there's a room literally up in Bethel where the the Bethel Rite Aid is, which is a large room that's been run by a wonderful person, Judy Sanamora Nurse for years. Of course, all the adult days closed down during the pandemic, but they've been waitlisted for over a year. And one of the biggest challenges is actually transportation from this valley over there. So I do think that we could definitely, you know, have a very viable adult daycare. And we and Lolly and I are developing that we're actually looking for in a similar situation to find somebody or an organization that's already licensed, who wants to come into our facility as a tenant. Lolly, you want to speak to that? Yeah, I'm the idea of doing a senior daycare facility. I think resonates pretty strongly with a lot of people around here. I think the population is definitely here. I think the idea of it being located within this multi-use facility would make it incredibly unique and probably pretty desirable to a lot of people in the sense if there are art classes going on or theater or just other activities for people to be involved in. I do think that there are a number of adult daycares across the state, and they did close down for the pandemic. There have been quite a few that closed permanently, but they are mostly the ones that are surviving are mostly nonprofits. And I do think there's probably the best case scenario would be to partner up with someone who's already running one to open up a second location here, that type of thing. And the good news is there's lots of money coming in from the state of Vermont going into adult day and from the federal government funds for elder care. So that's kind of an optimistic picture right now. So that brings us to arts and learning, and we have a very strong and long-established arts community in this valley, and they are independent and operating fine. Yes, they've been creative through the pandemic, and leadership from all the arts organizations have been part of these skitties, and the strong feeling is for those that have been accessing using the building like the White River Valley players for since 1974, really, or 1979 when they were established, but they were doing high school productions since the building actually opened, that they have a long-established use. They've maintained that auditorium after Irene. They actually led the repair and upgrade of that auditorium. And, Dorothy, you want to speak to that? Sure. I was the first music teacher when that building opened in 1974. I was the K-12 vocal music teacher and was one of the two music teachers using that room and seeing the joy and excitement on the faces of everyone coming in to the brand new building. So it's kind of, I don't know, hard to fathom that the building could be, the life of the building could be coming to an end. I think that's hard for me to kind of swallow. The players have been in existence for 42 years, and five years before that, yes, there were some high school productions that filled the auditorium. It was back when pretty much the only thing to do with teenagers could do would be athletics, which is wonderful, but it wasn't necessarily what everybody was going to succeed in. Some of you know that Mrs. Kirkpatrick, who was a long-time benefactress of the town, gave the money for the auditorium. We would not have had it not been for her generosity, and Dean Martin played a vital part in helping to make that gift a reality. Yes, Catherine spoke to our investment in the technical and the equipment, the systems in the auditorium. It was given, it was built with a very, very basic set up equipment, and over the years the players have invested money and skill and maintaining and bringing it up to more professional standards. And then going on to what the building could become for the Arts and Learning Center, I really like the term the hub. Whoever came up with that, I really like that. And I can envision professional summer theater just loving to be in that facility, and to think what professional summer theater brings to a town who think about Weston and Dorset and some of these places that have just has benefited the town greatly. Thinking about Suzuki, which is there in the summertime, hopefully building on that there could be more music lessons that are taught from that building. It has practice rooms, it has facilities that are great for teaching individual or group lessons. It's also a fabulous community gathering place. And I think we're all longing to gather as a community. We've really been missing that. And the auditorium is a gathering place. The whole building brings people together. Just two more things. One is in the past, there have been arts organizations that create their own original works. I can see more and more of that happening, especially works that might include some part-time residents, artists who have vacation homes here who could be working with local people and teaching us. And I'm sure they might learn a couple things from us. I don't know. But just the mix of people, I really see that as a really positive thing that could happen. And I think the sun is going to make me go into the shadows over here. I think that's all I have to say. Thank you. Leslie, you want to jump in from Rocha? I just want to add a few things. For those who don't know, I'm with the Chamber of Music Society that's been in town. This is our 27th season. And we typically have our performances in the church. And it's just a very small chamber atmosphere. And also we don't charge for our concerts. So the church pretty much stipulated, use the space, but don't charge. So it's by donation. And it ensures that anybody in town can come to a concert and not have to spend money. And we're talking world-class artists often. And it doesn't cost anything. It's just a donation. But some of the ideas, I mean, we would envision more residencies. We had a string quartet come and join us for summers. For many years, we provided them housing. And they worked up their program that they would take on the road during the year. And then they would perform that program for us. I see other residencies. We did one about two years ago in Pierce Hall where the musicians came and spent many days. So we see that kind of opportunity. And I see a different kind of residency of different mediums. Dune and Annie are doing a little hostel building. And I think of having artists come who might be given the grant to be here for 30 to 60 days and work on whatever is projects they want to work on. We love to work with children and adults in collaborative music making over the years. There's been a lot of those opportunities, bringing in instructors, doing simple adult youth ensembles. But I also want to just mention Suzuki is the one-week camp that runs under RCMS. The original director for Suzuki for many years was an economist. And she did a survey. If you don't know anything about Suzuki training, the parent is involved and the parent is always in the master class and takes notes. So they come as families. They love to come to Rochester. Teachers come from across the country. They love to sit in the river at four o'clock with their colleagues from around the country. But Jody, the original director, determined that it brought about $50,000 into the valley. Now you're talking about people needing housing. So there was a campground. There was the Hancock Hotel. There was a gray bonnet. So the people are spread out. Now there's a lot of Airbnb. So they're in different houses. We have to put staff up in houses. So Suzuki is a little economic driver for the week that it is here. And it's used this building for a long time. And we hope to continue that. And it could be the model for other sort of residencies as well. Yeah. Without the building, they would have to move on. Yeah. Robert, you want to take something? You're muted. Thank you. I also would like to point out that we're not just talking performing arts. There's some potential for good collaboration in other types of arts. As looking at other makerspaces, there's potential for things like a stained glass window making. There's arts involving welding. There's arts involving pottery, which is also down at the, there's equipment down at the school for that. And also woodworking. So the potential for the arts and learning to collaborate with the makerspace and that whole wing of the high school is great potential there. And I understand you have 48 people who have shown that they're interested in to participate in a makerspace program. Yes. And I've forgotten the number of those 12 are willing to do things like classes and such. So that was an immediate response just through a fairly quick outreach. So you've touched on a lot of the opportunities and the people that have energy behind driving those opportunities. Does anyone else have anything that they questions for the driver? Robert? Yeah. I think first of all, the idea of a grant, a study like this is extremely good and useful. And I applaud everyone's hard work in bringing it together. It's an essential idea, really good idea. I have a couple of barriers of discomfort. If you look at the list of proposed items in the proposal, seven of them, only two of the seven in my eyes have any potential for bringing money in at all. And one of the reasons, of course, the school board and Stockbridge want to get out from under this building is because of the cost of maintaining it and the cost of energy, keep it heated and electricity and whatnot. My sense in listening to the conversation here today and also in this, the tone of the proposal is that the dark side, that meaning the cost of this stuff, the potential liability of the town is not in the foreground. And I know, and Dune, you can stop me if I start coloring outside the lines, but I know that we're talking about the proposal, but the proposal and this conversation in a way is setting the tone and the expectations of the community for what this place is going to be or whatever, how to frame the dialogue about what direction it might take. And I think that if we don't take a very serious realistic hard look at the potential liabilities to the town that this project has, we're doing a disservice to the voters. I think everything sounds great. All the ideas are, they're wonderful. I love them all. It all sounds great, but it comes down to dollars and cents. The town cannot afford to carry this, and that should be very clear. But rather than being the heavy in this, I thought I would ask Vic, because he and I have talked about this, to step up and really talk about the downside of this, or rather than the downside, the realistic liabilities and costs of a project like this. Yeah. Yeah. And coming back to the notion of feasibility, feasibility in terms of the economics of it, as well as programmatically, is there enough demand in the Valley or Valley Plus to make the programs viable? So the economic risks or challenges are well down to basically two things. One is operating expense for the building that is heat, electricity, shoveling the snow, keeping the building clean, that sort of thing. And that could be very expensive. No doubt about it. So from an operating, you know, that's something that has to be paid for every year. And on the capital side, I think is probably everybody on this call recognizes that the building has a lot of deferred maintenance. So the heating system, ventilation, the roof, all that has a need for repair or replacement at some point in time. And part of the feasibility study is to look at and identify what aspects of the building should be addressed upon initial usage, what's going to be needed to be done in five years, what's going to need to be done in 10 years, and put real numbers to that, and where the money might come from to pay for that. You know, it's hundreds of thousands of dollars or more or well beyond that. But again, it depends on the actual use of the building. So our intention is to come up with our hope is to come up with a plan. And hopefully, the feasibility will help guide the way in terms of how to get there, where the building can be self sustaining through a combination of user fees, grants, donations, and that it all come together. So it is, as Rob is alluding to, it's not something to be taken lightly, and I don't think anybody in the committee does take it lightly. Jeff, for example, has been looking at the energy costs, and they're significant. There's no question about it. It's not an energy efficient building by any means. But fortunately, there are grant sources out there to help address a lot of the things we're talking about. So, but there is significant economic risk, but there's also opportunity to address those risks through funding sources that come from outside the valley, as well as generous contributions from individuals in the area. Yeah, and I think it's important to remember that this conversation tonight is about applying for grant to study those very issues and to try and really nail down some dollars and cents and identify in the clear light of paid research, what can, how it all filters out. Yeah. Rob, does that address your question, or is there more that you'd like me to speak to on that? I thought you might want to put the yearly figure. All right, Jeff. Oh, I wasn't going there, but you know, it's hard to tell what it is. I only went back to the 2016-2017. That's the oldest, 2017 was the oldest fiscal year. The next year, both of those years were roughly $68,000 for energy costs in the building, electricity and heating field. You know, I have great concerns about the quality or the performance of the building, its costs and operations. I was a school board chair for Rochester in the 90s for 60, for six years. Felt like 60 years, but you know, I'm well aware of how hard it was to get maintenance done on that, improvements done on that. Robert and I are going to remember three tries at a budget and where to get the boiler fixed, and that was with matching money. But we have a building that we can't just ignore, or it will become like another large building up in Hancock. So I am really hoping that the folks on the, on a lot of the program side, are finding things that can help us with the cost of operations in that building, simultaneous to looking at energy use in our public buildings across the board here in town, and seeing what we can pull in from efficiency from grants and from volunteer work in this community to make this happen. I'm hoping that we can utilize the full school. We know from the Black River design that their analysis of it is that there are other ways to save parts of it and to take and remove other parts. So you know, I think this feasibility study is really important. And one of the other things I understand that it would do is also if it finds things feasible, start looking for the next grant level for implementation, design or implementation, what have you, and move from there. So I've got very big worries about the building. It's not an easy one to really improve. But we've got to do something, or we're going to wind up with a mess there. So, Frank, Severi, and then Dick, do you want to say something? Yeah. Will the grant look at other alternatives, not just if some of these things don't pan out? Can we, does a grant cover things like a two-third rousing of the place and maybe keeping the auditorium and consolidating some of the town properties, like maybe disposing of the town office and moving that to that building instead? I mean, I think that that grant should look at alternatives such as that. Because if some of these things aren't feasible, then I think we should move in a direction where we might have to think about what we need to do as a town to consolidate some. We've got an old firehouse, our town garages sitting on the river. We've got the town office that is going to require a lot of maintenance down the road. And maybe that kind of thing might be in order if some of these things don't pan out. I think that formally that would fall outside the scope of the grant because the purpose of the grant is to assess a potential use of the building, not a potential for demolition or that standpoint. And I think that within the scope, if we want to look at, as you say, other uses like for the town garage or something, I think that would be possible. We could look at that. As I said, we have a sort of a catchall paragraph in the proposal that says other uses that would be compatible with the building, the program would be looked at as well. So I think that our mission was to come up with a use of the building that would be consistent with the benefit to the community. And so that's what we've been working on. I know there is a cost estimate for demolition of total or half of the building in the Black River study. And if someone wants to pursue that and tighten up on the numbers, that could be done, but I don't think that would be consistent with the purpose of this grant. I understand the notion of a larger scope, look at all the potential outcomes of the building, but within this grant per say, that would be outside the scope of the grant. So Dick Robson had his hand up earlier. I would just like to say that we can't lose sight of the fact that this would be an investment in the future of this valley. That just like our schools, our investments in the future, schools do not pay for themselves. But we say that they will in terms of our general population over the lives of the people who go through those schools. So if we provide some place in this valley that draws people here, people who come from other communities to use it, people who want to move here because it exists, these are things that you can't, you can't put in the budget, but they are very important things in the life of a valley that doesn't have a lot going for it, other than we love it here. Robert, Mary, you had a comment you wanted to make? Yeah, I knew it again. Dick addressed the point for me. Okay. And Pat, did you have your hand up earlier, Pat Harvey? Well, I just wanted to say that we are working within the scope of this planning grant on doing discovery and feasibility about this particular aspect of what could possibly happen with the building. That's what this hearing is doing. It's addressing this one particular avenue we could take. That doesn't mean that we are not pursuing other avenues. We are starting to pursue another avenue tomorrow morning. Some of these avenues don't really need a whole lot of discovery exploration. They would be kind of cut and dry if we were to decide to sell the building. Well, we don't have to do an entirely long research planning process for that. This particular one is the one that is the most in depth. For obvious reasons, it's very multi complex and multifaceted. And others are not quite as difficult, but this is the one that we really need to help with a planning grant to figure out the feasibility of it. But don't take that as if we're not exploring any other options at the same time. Robert? Vic, would the location of the town offices be within the building be appropriate under this as an option under this planning grant? Yeah, I think as I said, we have a catch-all paragraph where other things beyond the defined scope that we've already talked about could be included and would be within the scope. So, yes, we could take a look at that. If that's something that the select board agrees that we should look at, you know, we could certainly. Having a daytime presence down there, you know, Monday through Friday is a good idea. Town offices be there, possibly a council on aging office would relocate down there. And some other people have responded that they're interested in office space as well. But I don't think I'll mention them in the purpose of the hearing because it's also open, but all of that will go into the planning grant. Shar? You're muted. Yep. I'm curious to know if the grant were to be granted, has the committee already identified appropriate consultants and how many consultants would you need? And is the grant sufficient to pay that many consultants? Yeah, we were given a list of recognized consultants from the granting agency from the Department of Community Development. And we talked with the rep from that department about some strengths of different consultants. We have not vetted that list yet. And we know that there are at least two other programs in the state that have achieved, have acquired these grants and have used consultants. So we have some people calling the project in Bridgewater and where they converted a school building to a multi-purpose facility like we're talking about. And also in Wellington did the same thing with a former high school building, which has been a very successful venture. They got both the planning grant and an implementation grant from the same source that we're pursuing. So yeah, I mean, I've come to learn this whole sort of ecosystem of consultants and funds out there that, you know, it's new to a lot of us and we're learning about it. But yes, there are consultants out there. And in terms of the cost, the consultant on loan to us from the Round Council on Rural Development, Alyssa Johnson shared with us a project that she worked on when she was economic director, development director in Waterbury, where it's somewhat similar program and the cost of that consultant engagement was $41,000. So we think we're okay as far as the work that we want to have done. It might take more than one single consultant because the different types of work we're looking to have done, you know, we're talking about facility assessment versus business planning versus fundraising, grantsmanship kinds of assessment. So it's probably going to, I'm sure it's going to take more than one and, you know, maybe three different consultants to get all the work done. Jeff, get part of your hand up. You're muted. Well, I was just going to point out, and I think Vic did, that we have had assistance and support, professional support from the Vermont Council on Rural Development through Alyssa in reviewing this and putting together this grant application, as well as thinking through next steps. And the feedback has been that this is a strong proposal. We've had positive feedback, just FYI. Is there anything that Robert touched on or Robert Gardner, you've got your hand up? Yeah, I want to play off of what Frank and Patty said relating to this grant. From a pessimist standpoint, five out of seven of your items are never going to make any money. This is my own pessimist. And so at some point, if that were true, we would need to be able to shift our point of view outside of the box that we've defined. This I think is what these guys were talking about. We're going to have to come up with something else because I think that it is essential to try to find a way to have that building, that large property in the middle of our town within the town's control. I think that's really important. I'm just very pessimistic about this particular approach. So I don't know, and maybe a bit can speak to this, if there's enough flexibility in the study that the kind of thing that Frank is talking about, the kind of thing that Annie is talking about, or something hasn't been thought of yet, Patty, hadn't been thought of yet because we're not thinking in those terms. We've defined kind of a narrow box for this thing. And I don't know if there's flexibility within this grant to go outside of the box, or if that's just a whole other effort in a whole other context. Yeah. Yeah, I believe there is. And again, we intentionally included sort of a, an all other category within the proposal so that we have the flexibility to look at other things. Because as we get into this more deeply, I think it's likely that other ideas are going to surface. And consultants who worked around the state may point to a program in Wilmington or someplace else. In fact, I happen to know that the program in Wilmington where they convert to high school building, they have a combination of for-profit and nonprofit businesses in the building. So for example, they have their supervisor union offices there. There's a karate school. There's a bakery shop. And there's a variety of other social service programs in the building. So yeah, I think there are some other ways to do this. And hopefully get all the programs we're talking about and more. But to answer your back to your question, Rob, I believe, yes, there is flexibility to look at other ideas we just haven't thought of. Jeff? Yeah, I'm, Pat mentioned tomorrow at nine. Tomorrow at nine, we're meeting with a developer to look at affordable housing. Don't get up. Apoplexy. I'm not advocating that we turn this classroom component into affordable housing, but it's one of the things that we need to look at as a part of this grant and identify things that we think can work and things that we know or think can't work. We would be really amiss if we didn't explore that because right now there's so much money coming down to provide affordable housing. So yeah, Patty set that up and that's tomorrow morning at nine. But if that's a green light, that will be a parallel feasibility study. In the end, the town's going to vote. The town's going to decide. We are about getting information to the town, informing the town, and then the town is going to decide what we want this or we want this or we want something else. The select board is totally, totally firm and united that it's got to go to the town for a vote. So the more information, the better. And that's what this grant is all about. Pat? I think maybe I'm feeling we're getting tied up in what we're saying here and everybody has got all ears. All in all, if we want to take a step back, what will we stepping back 25 years to the group of people that said, let's do something with Pierce Hall? That I believe was a 20 year project. This hopefully by no means is that type of project. But if there is a very positive note to spin on this, that wasn't supposed to be possible to take a building that was built in the very early 1900s and bring it up to the code of the year 2010 or whatever. There was a lot of naysayers back in those days too. So the one thing that I feel when I look at that process is that this is a pretty determined rally. And a lot of gumption. There's a lot of faith and a lot of depending on each other. So if there is a chance of this being successful, I would like to say that that type of attitude is still in our valley and that it will be utilized. And we're going to take this as long as we can to the end to determine whether it's going to be a success or not. We won't quit on this. I certainly hope not. So I think it's always willing to take a shot, take it to the end, and then we can make a really educated decision on what this building should do for our community in the end. Robert? I would just like to second that note not only Pierce Hall, but 35 years ago there was Community Care talked about it had a much more narrow scope. They looked at this hotel that was there and had a vision of having a senior living there. And that came through. Again, that was many years in the making. Lots of planning grants, lots of community work, and a lot of determination. Katherine? I want to follow up on what Patty and Robert just said, because Genie Levitan has been working on our committees as well. And part of the vision of the Arts and Learning Center is to not 100% be building-based, but to be campus-based so that as the programming is developed, we are hoping that the programming will benefit both Pierce Hall and what goes on in the high school. I think that's a really important point. And we have gotten a letter from Parkhouse totally supporting this, and we're due to get one from Johnson Care Home as well. Those are smaller facilities without the ability to really expand on activities. And they, both organizations, feel that this would totally broaden what they can offer to their residents as well. Does anyone else have anything I want to add to the discussion? I have one piece of housekeeping. Someone joined in on the phone at 767-4295. Could you identify yourself for the records? If you heard me? No? Okay. That's, I guess, I can call that number later and figure out who that is. All right. I think it's, it might be Harve Downs. Okay. We'll figure that out. In the community phone book, the reverse lookup for the phone numbers. Do I have a quick question? Yep. On the, the copy of the like agenda or whatever that Julie sent me for this meeting, at the bottom it says, so is there a separate meeting after this? It's a special remote select board meeting following public hearing, but it's, so there's, there's something. No, this is the special meeting that we're in right now, I believe. Okay. It's something about a motion to contract with two rivers out of Quichy Regional Commission. Right. For the, the select board, we are, we're also having what is considered to be a special meeting to bring forth a motion to contract with two rivers so that they can assist us in writing that grant. Oh, okay. A resolution in order for us to apply for the grant. So those, those two are very closely associated with what we're talking about. Okay. So that's not really a special separate meeting. No, I think, did you, are you going to make that motion right now, Pat? Um, do you have the motion? Nancy, do you have a point of order here? Well, I think that you've had a public meeting, which you, which you opened, and I think you have to adjourn the public meeting. Okay. Okay. Make that, because this is just the information. I just want to add that they will also administrate the funds of the grant. Okay. And they've been written into the budget and the budget is also on the town website for anybody who wants to look at that. All right. So at this point, unless anyone else has anything else they'd like to add to this, this hearing, I'd move to close this public hearing and then open up the, a special select board meeting to approve this application to two rivers. Pat, you have the verbiage on that. Do you want to make a motion on that? I think Zick might have it. Who has, who has this? I don't have any specific, but I can just summarize motion, it would be a motion to retain two rivers, Waterkechi Regional Commission, as the grant administrator for this grant, if it is approved. And, and there's a fee of $7,000 has been quoted and that would come out of the grant funds. I would not come out of town funds. Yeah. So I move what he said. I second that. All in favor. Aye. Aye. Okay. And then the resolution. The resolution, I believe, is that the town of Rochester is applying for a grant for a feasibility study for the high school building. And I think it is as simple as that. We just need to be on the record saying we approve that. Actually, I think it's a little more specific than that. And I'll see if I can find it in the instructions. So do we need to vote this in tonight or can we do it on Monday where we get it all figured out to make sure the motion is correct? But the resolution, we'll see if it can come up with it right now. Yeah, I'm looking. We stay here. Resolution. I mean, this is, yeah, we're not, this doesn't have the executive session. We're making a resolution that we've all been, you know, about a subject we've all been talking about. I don't think we need to do this. And you don't have to stay here. Yeah. If it can come up with that. Yeah, I think I can. I'm just coming down to the right section of the instructions. I think that's page on 16 at the top. Here it is. It's on page 14. Oh, 14. I'm sorry. Okay. Let me just read this. The municipality should select the most appropriate resolution for the grant application. The resolution is to certify that it one possesses legal authority to apply for the grant and to administer the program to applies for grant under the terms and conditions of said program and agrees hereby to enter into certifications and assurances. Three has a duly adopted and current municipal plan or community development plan and that the project is consistent with the plan or has received documentation from the regional planning commission that the project is consistent with the regional plan that you have has authorized a designated person to be the contact person to provide on behalf of applicant all documents and information necessary for completion of the application and to provide such coordination as maybe necessary for the application that would be to rivers is understood that if the application is funded, the receipt of the funds as federal funds passed through the state of Vermont may require that an audit of the applicant be conducted under the provision of the single audit act as amended and that Vermont council and Vermont community development program funds may be used to fund only a limited portion of the audit cost. Excuse me, Vic, I can't there's no way I could have sent it to you. Is there any way I was that one of you could email me that just so that I thank you very much. I appreciate it. Thank you. Is that it? Patty confused me. Did she say that truck is handling the grant funds or the town? The two rivers is going to be doing the leg work and the logistics of the paperwork aspect of it. This resolution that Vic just read, is that something that the board is approving? Yes, right. The select board would need to approve that in order for the applicant to be viable. Right. So can we move to approve what he just read? Because I can't restate that very quickly myself. No. I move that we adopt the resolution as stated by Vic. Yeah, I would second that. Oh, my favorite. All in favor? Aye. Okay. There it is on public record right on your computer screen. Thank you for offering a send it to me. I appreciate it. I can write it all down. So onward in the request for information and understanding and everyone's efforts is much appreciated here. Thank you to everybody for all the hard work you put into it. I very much appreciate it myself just as a Rochester resident. Well, as Dick said, we love this community. Yeah. It's about love. Well, I mean, I had three kids that went all the way through the schools there and graduated and it broke my heart when the high school closed down, but I understood the reasons I guess for that. So now I'm very glad to see that there are ways that we can use the building for good purposes now. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I think we've taken care of all the business that we came here to do tonight and not quite dark out, we're done. So thank you all and happy spring and I hope you're all the good work that you're all doing. Thank you to everybody. See you Monday night.