 Hey everybody, welcome to Linuxcast. I'm your host Matt and I'm Tyler. Welcome Tyler, welcome everybody to the Linuxcast. We record this live every Saturday at 3 o'clock p.m. Eastern time or, you know, thereabouts. We're not actually too far behind it today, which is pretty good, I think. So if you want to join us live, you can do so at youtube.com slash linuxcast. Make sure you're subscribing and all that stuff. So look at me getting the housekeeping stuff right out the way. We talk about Linux-y things and we're going to do, we have a awesome topic that should not really piss anybody off, but we should. I chose this topic because I thought we could have some really good fun with it to try to make our own perfect distro. What would the perfect distro actually look like if we could just pull parts off from every distro that exists and shove them all into one ISO? What would that distro actually look like? It should be fun, especially because we know at least one person on this podcast is going to try to make it all nix-like and the other guys can make the logo look like a fucking chameleon. We know that that's going to happen. You're not wrong. So we should have some fun with it, but before we do, we have a couple things to take care of, as we usually do. But first, if you're listening to the audio version, I'm just going to call this out first because I would really like you to go leave us a review because that would really help the podcast on Apple Podcasts. So if you're on Apple Podcasts, hit those stars and give us a few stars. It costs nothing. So thank you for doing that. And now we can jump into what we've done this week in Open Source. So, Tyler, what nix things have you been up to this week? Well, if you've got me all big, I'll go ahead and switch over to my desktop because one of the things that I've added, I've got the podcast running in the background. I'll switch that just so it doesn't confuse anybody or be distracting. But I made with dwebs help or Donald in chat. He helped me use Yad to make a nice keyboard shortcut menu. It's still broken and saying, oh, there we go. No, I don't know. It doesn't show the right command for this one down here, but all the other keybinding. So I'll show you the actual command and describe what the keybinding is for my hyperland setup. I've added like a numbered version of my hyperland rice. I'm also working on a Waybar implementation using a lot of these like animated CSS colors for stuff. So that's fun. That'll be that'll be out in a day or so. And then I also worked a lot on my website. I improved all of the images I converted to AVIF format. So they're smaller and the website should, you know, load faster because of that. And I also wrote an explanation of my flake and everything over there. And I also talk about it a bit in this post, but I'm moving I'm in the process of moving all of my documentation for my config, my next OS config over to my website. So it'll look better. And also my website has a search function. So you can search through and it'll bring up any specific pages of my wiki based off your search query. So that will hopefully make things much better for my documentation and for just allowing people to use my config. So I've really just been doing a lot of stuff like that. I'm also implementing W lockout right now. So you'll have a nice like kind of power like menu where you can log out do different stuff shut down the system reboot, all that kind of stuff. So yeah, that's what I've been doing with my config. I haven't spent a single minute and next this week at all. Even though I'm in the middle of that long term review. I haven't had any interest in using it. Part of it was because of other things going on, but I just needed to break from it. I'll get back back into it eventually. Well, I haven't spent any time in next, but I have watched a couple more tutorials on flakes and I'm compiling knowledge on it to I'm fine. I'm getting there. I'm much more closer this week than I was last week to understanding what the hell is going on. So we're making progress. I don't think I put out a video today about a simple explanation of home manager. So hopefully it helps. I haven't gotten into home. I'm still stuck on flakes. I don't think that there's actually a problem. I mean, there's the problem of, you know, slightly different explanations over what flakes is, but really my brain is just too slow because it's so weird. Like it's more different than what I expected it to be. And I don't know, it's just my brain not just you ever have like a blockage where you just can't understand something even if it's simple. That's kind of like me in in in flakes. I just I just don't get it yet. I'm working on it though. Anyway, so I have this week was a very not great week for me in terms of computing, not necessarily things went wrong with my distro or anything. So Jake from that my discord helped along with several other people to make a way to install the tkg kernel on open SUSE. And while that was actually two weeks ago, I installed that I've been using that for a little while, and ended up having to then not use it after it for whatever reason broke the ability for my elk, I'm huge to actually work, which I don't nobody seems to understand because the mouse works fine, but the huge didn't. So I ended up going back to the regular kernel, and then open SUSE's grub menu for whatever reason would not let me change, like back to the default kernel as the default and kept loading me into the tkg. So I did a butterfests zipper snapback or a zipper, not zipper snapper rollback to get back to before I installed the kernel. And what that meant was that I had to rebuild hyperland. And I was like, well, I might as well just go ahead and rebuild hyperland as the latest commit instead of what I knew worked, which was a mistake. So I should have I should have just built the one that I had already pulled, and I knew worked just fine. But I didn't I did a get pull and and and built from there. After that, hyperland decided it was going to freeze every time my computer came back from, you know, from sleep from hibernation. And I just didn't have the patience to, you know, report the bug or any of that stuff. I just was like, you know, I'm just done. And I need I need something different. It really has nothing to do with hyperland hyperland does that if you're running off from like the bleeding fucking edge, it just breaks sometimes it's just don't use the bleeding edge even though in the video I said you use it don't actually use it don't listen to me. Never let's never listen to me. Anyways, so I decided because for the longest time over the course of like last four or five months, Q tile has been broken on my system, like really broken for a while like it would crash all the time. And then when I could get it to run for whatever reason, one of the bars would like go completely invisible. So like I have three bars on each one on each of my monitors and one of them would go invisible. So I was like, you want, I'm going to finally fix Q tile because Q tile is my favorite winter manager, like by far. So I spent probably close to 24 hours over the course of two days fixing Q tile. And I'm finally at the point where it works. Like the bars are showing up, everything looks the way that I want to work. And it's really, I remember now why I really like you tell us really very, very good. I also, because I'm much more into Python than Haskell, I can safely say that if there's something that I want to do in Q tile, I will know how to do it. And that makes me happy. I could say the same with with X monad, like I learned a lot of Haskell during my time using X monad, but not enough to know that I could safely make a change if I needed to make a change. So back on Q tile, and fairly happy with it. Yeah, so yeah, I did. You do all you're putting together something for I mean, obviously, you're using a lot of all the stuff for next yourself, but you're also being very public about it. And you know, like, everybody can use my flake and, you know, go use my setup and we're creating all these really cool awesome bar setups and all this stuff. Matt, I'm just rising. I'm just rising. That's what I do. You know, I'm not going to do anything for you fools. Just just just for me. There's something to be said for doing it for yourself. You know, my my dad, I was doing it for you. My dad files are a thing. That's man. They're so so bad. One of these days, I'll go through and do like a spring cleaning. I got like four or five different poly bar configurations in there. There's now there's two Q tile configurations. One of them is broken, but it's still there. I don't want to get rid of it. You know, so I'm gonna have to like create a like a folder or something like that for really old dot files I no longer need. You can shove all that stuff in there. Like there's like a Herbstluft config file in my dot files. I think I used it exactly one time. No clue what's in there probably doesn't run anymore. So that will have to be fixed, but they'll they'll come someday when I want to do some spring cleaning hasn't yet. It's a mess. Also, you do all this documentation stuff. My stuff is documented. The only reason they have readmes is because you can't create a repository without a readme. The only reason they have one. So there you go. That's that's the that's the documentation for my stuff. It's never gonna happen. All right. Anyways, well, it's a lot of time spent in documentation. So I get not doing it too. It's much easier not to do it straight. All right. So that's our weekend open source. I hope you guys enjoyed that. So let's go ahead and move on to the main topic. So what so this topic, let me see if I can actually find this where's my mouse. So this topic came from our suggestion box on the discord. So if you want to leave us a topic that you would like us to talk about, we have a whole bunch of stuff there they're voted on. We don't always take the one that's been voted on the most. This one actually has a grand total of four thumbs down. So that's why I chose it. I was like, I figure people don't like it. There's a good reason to choose it. So this one came from let me see if I can actually find it. Of course, I'm not going to be able to find it. Let me actually right here. It's right here. So it's they asked us to imagine if the Arch and Debian developers would join forces and merge the two operating systems. This was this came from Pi and the discord. I broaden that a little bit to the to the idea. If we take if we were to want to create the perfect Linux distribution, and we could take parts from every Linux distribution that exists or has ever existed. What would that distribution look like for the two of us? If we were just doing it for the two of us? And what would it look like if we were to do it for public consumption? So I think that those probably would be two different things. But I don't know if that's true. Maybe maybe they'll be exactly the same. So I don't I don't really have a plan for how we're how we should go about doing this. But why don't we we just kind of wing it like we normally do? What would you say? Actually, we can we can just kind of split this in. So first off, let's start off at the base level. Obviously, we're using the Linux kernel. Yeah. Yeah. Now, are we going to succumb to Jake pressure and use a custom kernel? Or we're just going to use the default kernel? I think I think for this perfect distro, there needs to be some level of choice in the kernel. So like I say, it comes with the Zen kernel by default. And then we have the regular fallback and then like one other one. So OK, so that would branch out to we probably just use regular would we use grub or system debut to make the two because we I just imagine going into like a text based like two way thing to select a friggin kernel on something fancy. I want something fancy to select a kernel. So but I think I agree with you. I don't know if I've never used the Zen kernel. I don't know much about it. Well, wait, hold on, hold on, hold on. We may be getting ahead of ourselves even here. What are we going to use for the live environment for the install? Can we both agree that we should just just package a desktop environment that works everywhere? Well, like just just for the installer or should we go in curses? We could just go full on void Linux, right? Just you you get a desktop environment, but you still have to open up the end curses installer to install. Yeah. And I don't know that we go that far. We're not going to select the groups that you need to be in. We're going to let you select the groups because of course everyone knows exactly what groups you're supposed to be a part of. Yeah. So so I think OK, so I'm more of a of a KDE guy. So if we were to create this live ISO, I would say put KDE on there, but that makes that's going to my only argument against that is SDDM is known to cause issues on some machines just because the live ISO will not load because SDDM gives a black screen. Can you build Plasma without SDDM actually being there? I don't know. Like I know you I know you can build it with other display managers, because you know you can use LightDM with Plasma if you wanted to. But. I don't know either. I don't know that I don't answer that question. Josh, where the hell are you? Techie said, yeah, so let's assume we can and SDDM doesn't cause problems. I'm fine with going KDE for the live install. Either that or we can hire Steve to do our rice for XFC. Just because he loves XFC so much. That's great. All right, so I don't know. All right, you're right. We jumped into the kernel a little bit too soon. What are we going to do for the installer? Do we use stock calamaris? Do we go something custom? Do we do end curses? Are we like screw it? If you want to use our distro, you have to go full on Gentoo. No, like let's just let's just say we go heavily themed calamaris. Yeah, I think I agree with that. It's not my favorite installer of all time, but it's the most customizable and it allows you to do so much stuff and everyone knows how to use right. Everyone who's installed Linux knows exactly what you know, calamaris is and how to use it. So so installation is done. Let's go back to the kernel just for a second now that we're we've installed something that doesn't have a kernel. So you tell me what the benefits of using using the Zen kernel is there is minimal improvements over using minimal but noticeable improvements over using the base like default latest kernel with Zen on most desktop and some laptop configurations. So and also Zen is not normally likely. I've never really had an issue come from using the Zen kernel. So is the Zen kernel the one that Garuda uses? Is that I believe so. OK, because there's the problem with kernels is that they're kind of like fads. They go in and out of popularity. So, you know, Xanmod was there for a little while and then Lycorix or whatever it's called. And Xanmod is still around. I know they're still around, but you know what I mean? Like they come in and out of the limelight. Yeah, populating popularity. So I'm OK with using a kernel that I've never used before. Why the hell not? But I think I think you're right that we should include the default kernel as like a backup. And why the hell not? Let's just go throw in the LTS kernel just in case. So if you want, if you wanted to have the, you know, the LTS kernel and go full on Debbie and you probably could. So there's the kernel. Now, do we? Here's the question. System D or no system D? I would say just for ease of use system D. But if we wanted to get a pat on the back from people, maybe we throw run it in it. So, you know, instead, we could go some some we could go partially the way like MX Linux has gone, where they run an alternative in that system as their default and then they have system D as a backup that you can boot into from the boot menu. So we could go something like that, but that. That's going to increase complexity because if we use a nonstandard and knit system, we're of course going to have to include tools to do things like run cron jobs to do things like that. So no, a lot of that stuff can be pulled from, you know, other developers who have done that already. But, you know, it's something to think about. Well, what? I mean, Linux tech keeps Linux tech geek keeps throwing out open RC. That may that may be a good option. We could go open RC. Well, I mean, if we go, the thing is, if we say we're not doing system D, so we're going to choose a different in this system, then the question becomes, who's favorite in this system are we going to use? Because, you know, you know, there's a lot of people who like run it. There's a lot of people like open RC. You know, let's just go just be a net, you know, wait, hold on, hold on, let's ask the base the base question that should be the fundamental defining factor in this. Do you care? Well, I don't care on install, but I think I think do you care about your net system at all? Assuming you know which commands to run, do you care? Personally, yeah, I do. OK, which one do you prefer? System D. Well, let's go with system D because I don't do it. Shit. All of them are fine with me. Well, it's just as long as every once in a while you want to start up a service. Like, for example, if you're on hyperland and you have portal problems, restarting the portal is, you know, look at the split with system D. I'd have no clue how to do it with run it or open RC. You can do it. I just don't know how to do it. So I know the commands for system D. So OK, so system D it is. We just pissed off some people, but that's OK. Yeah. You want our distro screw you. Go make your own. Anyway, so we got we got our in that system. The net loader, you know, a boot loader. So we want a system D. So we could use system D boot the system debut or we could use Grubb to or we could go full on nerd and go refined. But that would require UEFI. Yeah. And I don't know. Well, I don't know. Do we require UEFI? In this day and age, I think don't well, I mean. Most district like doesn't help with how about this? How about this? For this conversation, we actually like actually poll chat. This this is one of those questions that makes sense to ask chat. How many of them use UEFI? All right, we're going to and then that can determine what we do. All right, we're going to put a poll in the chat. Start poll. So your do you use UEFI? Yes or no? I don't think there needs to be a third option. Because either yes or no question. OK, I start poll. Yeah. All right. There you go. I mean, maybe you probably could have thrown a baby in there. I don't know. Usually when I do polls, I do a third option is like, yeah, I get to vote. Someone says six. See, that's the problem with going with a custom in this system is that everyone has their favorite. I mean, yeah, what we could do and this is stupid and we could go full on Arco Linux. OK, you get to choose everything right from the installer, including the init system, the bootloader, which kernel you're going to use your your CPU code, all your codecs, everything like no. No. So right now it's looking like it's an 80 20 or close to about there with people using it and not using it. So the question is, is do we want to alienate that 20 percent with you if I only? Well, OK, so we're using the Zen kernel as default. Let me ask you this question because I've never used the Zen kernel before. How does that work on older hardware? Like really, it should be fine because you probably won't get nearly as many benefits from it. But yeah, it should work fine or it may even give you a better performance just kind of depends on the system. The vast majority of those people who answered no, probably use it on older hardware that doesn't either support UEFI well or it's just easier on those machines to use legacy BIOS. Hipdad out in there, Arco. No, Vivo in BSD. Well, we're using the Linux kernel, OK, we're not going to get none of this BSD shit. All right. So with that poll being said, I think we should probably not use Refine. But I am down with going system debut only because that means that's not a separate application. It's I mean, it's just slimmer. It keeps everything cleaner and system debut is not not a really hard thing to configure. It's fine. Yeah. OK. So I have a question. You might not know the answer to this question. So we'll we'll see if anybody in the chat has the question as the answer. Can you use snapper snapshot integration with system debut? Because I swear to God, if this distro does not have butterfess, I'm choking a bitch. It's just I will riot if it doesn't have butterfess. Well, I don't know. I mean, I don't know, but I would believe so. Well, I know it's really easy with grub. Like I know it's really easy. You should just be able to have it create entries and it be fine. So, yeah. Ddubs says yes. I've never tried because I've never used system debut. Open. Open Susie uses grub. So I mean, Ddubs would know. So yeah, I don't I like it. I don't know. OK, so I'm OK. If if we can, then we can go ahead and use system debut. Well, that makes it easy. So what's the next thing past boot loader we got to decide? Well, OK, so it's really small. But do we use Plymouth to make it pretty or do we just leave a scrolling line of text? No, we use Plymouth. OK, good. All right. I agree. Wait, hold on. Actually, you know what? I'm going to be keeping notes as we go. I'm going to open up a little file. Don't don't accidentally hit the recording button. All right. So for the kernel, we're using this in the Zen kernel system, debut or system D and system debut Calamari's for installer. Yes, it'd be a perfect opportunity for scratch pads, Ddubs. It's that it's exactly true. We're using a KDE live environment. What else have we said? We're going to use Plymouth and we're going to use we did bootloader. You might as well just write down butterfs for the file system because yeah, I'm accepting not no other. I'm not really going to fight you there. I think butterfs is a great file system. So maybe although I do think that we should have something that generates snapper like, you know, snapshots like options and stuff. But for the system configuration, when it changes like NixOS does, but you know, whatever, we'll get to that. We're about to get into the contentious part. OK, because Tyler's perfect distribution is like, yeah, why don't you just use Nix? Like, why are we doing this? Just use Nix. It's the best distro. I'm fighting every urge not to say that it's theoretical. We don't have to choose our because if our just use open Suza, it does the best. All right. Pecan says thank you for the five dollars. He says off topic for a second, but you said you tried TKG and Suza and it gives you issues. You have licorice, licorice to try. See, my issue with it is that I had have Jake and friends build it for me because I didn't do I didn't do any of the work myself because I didn't see the benefit of it. But I'm trying to be persuaded towards the custom kernel and Jake and friends are trying to get me to that point. I'm just not there yet. But I would happily give the licorice thing a try. And the reason why I'm so happy to give alternate kernels a try is because I use butter effes and it's so easy to just to roll back when, you know, I don't need it anymore. Yeah, Butterfest Assistant is good. Unfortunately, you can't get it for open Suza. I cannot get it to install. But that's at the point. And anyway, so let's go ahead then and move on to the big stuff. So we've meant we've installed it. We got it on a Butterfest system. We've we've we can just assume that we've set up the appropriate sub volumes and all that stuff along the way. We have system D running. We have system D boot. It's got us into the boot. We booted into Plymouth. It's it's loaded into the display manager. What display manager are we going to use now? Are we going to use a display manager? So are we going to wait before we define that we should go ahead and say what shell are we running? Oh, bash. I think we need to stick with that. Do you think? But we're just so we're clear. We're not going to make it ZSH. No, I use bash on my system. So I'm OK with bash. I think that's a well, a good default to have. I literally wrote started writing the ZSH. Do you want? Do you want to fight? No, I'm fine with bash. But I said you said bash. We agreed on bash and I started writing out ZSH. Yeah. Well, OK. So I switch I switched back to bash probably about six months ago because I discovered something called BLE.sh. Basically, it just get it just gives bash all the features of ZSH and it's awesome. Like, even if like if you CD into downloads and are dyslexics like me and can't spell downloads and I miss spelled out all the time, it just it just knows what you're you're doing. It's awesome. You don't even need you don't need to say it's just use bash. It's awesome. OK, so yeah, bash is good. So display manager then, right? Well, somebody said lie. I don't think we're going to use lie. I like lie, but it has so many problems with Wayland. I guess I guess before we can answer the display manager question, are we doing a Wayland only or are we going to include XOR? You know, I say Wayland. Oh, Wayland only. OK, so and that branches off into the question, what's going to be our default environment? Is it going to be a desktop environment? Are we going to say through that and do a compositor? I mean, you know me, dude, it has to be hyperland on my end has to be like there is literally nothing better. And just so you know, I have loved using scratch pads. I am now a hardcore scratch pad user and thank you very much for getting me into it. It's very nice. Oh, they're awesome. Scratch ties are awesome. My problem with hyperland is that is so quickly developed to the point where you could build it every single day and, you know, have the problems. Could we agree that we should lock the version for it? I mean, if we're going to use it, we have to. Like, there's no way we can use the get version. On. I agree. OK, I think unfortunately, if we were really distra maintainers, I understand now why they have so many decisions to make, because we at this point here, we have to choose display manager. What the environment is going to be and all of that kind of plays into what kind of distro we're going to want. Is this going to be a stable release distro where we release every like six months or something? Are we going to go full rolling release? Is it is it going to be based on something? Are we going to go full on OG distro? Are we going to, you know, and that's going to play into what package manager we're going to be using? So we have some choices here, man. We got to make some choices. We were going kind of linearly and linearly in the boot, you know, order. I don't think we're going to be able to do that anymore. No, because we can't we can't boot into something until we know what type of distro it's going to be. So let's go ahead and then decide rolling or static release and simultaneously decide or at least at least alongside that decide, are we going to do this thing straight up from scratch? Or are we basing it on another distro? Well, with the decisions we've already made, it's probably going to have to be custom only because we're already pulling in custom kernels and crap. So why not just go fully custom anyway? See, not based on anything. I don't want to do that kind of work. I mean, we're not actually making it in the first place. Here's what I think, and this is going to be something. What would you say to making this based off Gentoo? Like, we'll make this based on Gentoo and do something very similar to what Redcore or Sisyphus Calculate Linux, all those like Gentoo based distros do based on Gentoo, but have their own installer. So it's easy to install and we can have emerge as a backup package manager, but we could also create our own package manager like Sisyphus, although we definitely have to come up with a better effing name than Sisyphus. Well, no, I mean for like, to me, I think that's a great idea. We could base it off of Gentoo, have portage be our default package manager. And then for our AUR, because like, let's say like we keep our package for us, we don't want to maintain a shit ton of packages. So we have the default Gentoo repositories where you can build packages from or get their binaries now from their binary repo or for anything that's not there or say you want a different binary, we include the NICS package manager as our like AUR implementation. So you've got all the packages there and that would out your system and that would get the NICS guys off my back because it's there. All right, I'm OK. I'm OK with that, except for the next thing messes around with your past. But you know, whatever. Yeah, so a Gentoo base and I'll put slash portage in here and NICS as a you are like supplementation they're fighting in the in the chat about arch because it's better based on arch. If we're getting we want full control, Gentoo almost has to be it, right? Because Arch doesn't it gives you mostly full control. But it's so much easier with use flags to literally build this thing exactly the way that we want it to if we don't want people to be able to install Xorg at all just by default negative X11 you're never going to install Xorg on this system while going in and messing around with my use flags when we can encrypt that things, you can never see it, you know, I mean, also, I think a Gentoo base makes it easier for us in development and then in implementation. If you don't like portage or you don't want to like have all that crazy customization and ever have to even deal with that, you've got the next package manager so you can get any packages you want and just never even have to deal with portage and use flags, masking anything like that. You can completely avoid it all. Stan has a very good point in the chat. Do distro box just in case someone needs arch or anything definitely going to have distro box installed by default. Yes, I'll go ahead and add that distro box and that way you can have your own containers running for whatever distro that you want because, you know, ours is going to be broken half the time. Just kidding. We should have, we wish, wish, wish that's definitely happening. We're not actually going to do a custom package manager, but we're going to alias emerge to Nuggy. So it's going to be Nuggy install. That way you don't have to ever remember the flags for portage. You don't have to remember at world or any of that stuff. You just do Nuggy install, Nuggy search, whatever. And we can do all that stuff. Nuggy aliases for portage. I love it. Now we're going to have to do this, dude. Just to piss man off. I would, I would, I would still use it. I swear to God, because that's just be fun. OK, so we have our base, our package manager, an awesome idea for alias for a package manager. We have to go back now to display manager, then. What are we going to use for the display manager? Can we still have the distance? We still have to decide if I guess are we going with hyperland then as our default? Yes. And then maybe like maybe have, I don't know, maybe maybe actually instead of having it default to hyperland have like either it or Katie be an option, because I mean, Katie Wayland is getting better. It's more of a more of a I wouldn't recommend like Katie to somebody on Wayland right now. But eventually I probably would. So yeah, I mean, I say we could go with hyperland slash Katie and like you just choose it on install, which one you want. Yeah, I think that's probably a good idea. It's really a freaking shame that XFC doesn't have their Wayland thing in order yet, because it is good. I'm not lying. That's actually what I was going to say first, but then I remembered they're only XOR. Yeah, it's only XOR growing. We can't we can't say we're using a use flag to get rid of XOR and then allow XFC. It's just how about this? Let's put it as hyperland XFC, knowing that this distro is a theory and probably by the time it would ever be implemented, XFC would support Wayland. And then when Wayland comes for XFC, we can just then say added it and no XOR would just get rid of XOR again. So it's all put hyperland and then slash XFC. It's like the weirdest pairing ever. We have the fastest developed Wayland compositor in the history of the world, and we have the slowest desktop environment ever developed in the history of the world. And we're installing them both side by side. Hey, best of both worlds, man. You get what you want. That's awesome. So for the login manager, if we're going to go with these two, I mean, we could obviously I mean, we have options, but I think SDDM is probably going to be the best one since it works well with hyperland and it works well with pretty much anything. Well, we can eliminate quite a few of them so we can eliminate lie because it doesn't work with hyperland very well or at all, as far as I know. It does work with hyperland, but not well. OK, it doesn't work with LightDM does not work well with Wayland like zero percent of the time. It gets so bad. Is LightDM even still even freaking still developed? Like, I don't even know. I really don't know, to be honest. Seriously, just use a modern way to make our display manager. So those two can go away. GDM is so frickin' tied to Gnome. I don't even think it on probably on on Gentoo would be fine. But like, if you install GDM on like open Susan Fedora, half the time it comes with Gnome right alongside it like you like. So I think the GDM. So I think that SDDM you're right is probably the best option. My problem with SDDM is that it is, you know, SDDM and it does SDDM things. As somebody who uses it now. Yes, it is the most annoying of a probably the best display manager out there and it kills me. Yeah, I've actually it's actually been OK for me surprisingly recently because and I say surprisingly because I do switch back and forth between Wayland and XOR quite a bit and it does a fairly good job of that. So I think that yeah, that would be a good option because we're installing both at this point. All right. So SDDM is the login manager. So none tricks ask why do some login managers not work well with Wayland? The answer to that question is because the login managers themselves usually have to have Wayland support built in and like like DM doesn't really as far as I know. I mean, it does. I think we'll launch if all you have is Wayland, but I don't think we'll launch in anything. SDDM seems to have the SDDM and GDM have the best Wayland support as far as I can tell. Although there was a point where on GDM you could have XOR support or Wayland support, you could not have both. I don't know if that's still the case or not. It's not, but it was. That'd be that'd be the greatest thing. Every time you want to switch back before between XFC and Hyperland, you had to go into the GDM configuration file and switch it, switch it out there. That's just that's that's great. OK, so that's display manager. And now we're now we're booted in and we're Tyler is going to do the rising for Hyperland. He's got that shit taken care of. Is there so here's my knowledge of Nick's shining through. You could. Is there a way you could use your flake using the next package manager on this? Or do you do it all from the start? I didn't think so. But I would just say if flakes are so good, why can't I use them on open SUSE? That's what I'm saying. OK, so you're going to do the rising for Hyperland. I will do the rising for XFC because I'm awesome at it and we'll get some good CSS there. We'll have a floating bar. It's going to be awesome. So we've taken care of the rising between the two of us. He'll be responsible for maintaining everything that goes along with Hyperland. And in the best division of labor ever, I get XFC, which never happens. It's to be the best thing ever. OK, Tyler, just wait a minute. I didn't agree to this shit. Definitely taking all more work than I should, but all right. All right. OK, so I question so we have portage. We have next. Do we need to enable something like flat pack support coming out of the gate? But, you know, obviously you can install and use flatbacks, but we just don't configure it for you out of the gate. Well, because I think if we if we have next, we don't really need to have flatback because, you know, you're going to have a lot of overlap there. Or you could run it like I would and just always use everything from the Gentoo repository to never touch Nick's ever just because you're scared of it. OK, just a little scared of it. It's all right. We're not stalling snaps. That wasn't even an option. OK, they're not. Get your loopback devices out of my gentoo is what I'm saying. OK, so graphical package manager. What we use because we need one we need is we need an app store. Shite. Yeah, I have no idea, dude. I don't like the KDE one. That's for sure. Discover. I mean, yeah, I'm not a big fan of discover. So XFC is GTK based so we could choose something like GNOME software or the pop store, which is based on the elementary thing, which this kind of gives me the X, but whatever. So most of those are options. We could we could build our own. I think we might have to do because it's it's either the pop OS one or custom. OK, so if we're going to do custom, then we'll be able to pull from both the gentoo repositories and do a front end for the next store. Yup. Package package search mechanism and just put them all right in there and you can choose from the top where you want to install your thing from. And then we could build it in so that if you do install flat pack or snaps first off, if you install snaps on my brand new shiny distro, I'm going to there's going to be like a pop up every five seconds saying, are you sure? Like, no, no, no. Here's the best thing. If you if you install snaps on this distro every five seconds, Clippy is going to come up from the side and say, did you really mean to install snaps? Would you like me to uninstall snaps for you? Well, oh, yeah, yeah, we could definitely have our store to run a check to see if flat pack is installed. If it is, then it checks to see if the flat hub like a flat hub service has been ran to to ensure a flat hub is added. If it hasn't been, then we run it and like just enable it. And so that way, like there's never not a time when the user doesn't have flat hub ready. And then then we can pull in everything from flat hub and display it in there. This is I think this is actually a app store that I want to see actually happen. Like why is this not actually a thing that your app store just goes out and searches for what's available? Like if it has, you know, if it's running Pacman, it can it can get all the larger repositories. It can also search if you have flat pack installed or snaps or Nix. If it has, if you have those things installed, it can then, you know, put those things are all right in the store and you can make the choice. It's not even that complicated because it all happened in the background. The user needs nothing other than just to have those things installed. Oh, man. So custom app store with cordage. I am so sad right now. And this distro is never going to exist. And I want to use it. Yeah. One of us is going to really need to seriously learn how to code just to let you know that. Like I got a little bit of Python, but we're going to want to build everything in Python because that's slower than shit. No, no, it's going to be and we're going to. I can just see DT coming in the chair right now. Everything's got to be built in Haskell. OK, obviously, we're we're installing them by default and we're putting in a use flag that prevents people from installing Emacs. Oh, I love this. Them use flag against Emacs. This is happening. You can't. You can't install Emacs. Use flat pack Emacs. That's it. Wait, wait, wait, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute. There's a flat pack of Emacs. That actually probably not. But the problem is I'm going to look like I got to go look. All right, let's see. You guys can come look for me. Oh, you guys can't see that because I don't have the right thing. Otherwise, I'd. I'll fix that later. There is actually there's a flat pack of Emacs that actually is. So God, that's awesome. If you want to use Emacs on our distro, you guys have to use the flat pack. It'd be more hilarious if we if we had a funnel that when you try to do flat pack install Emacs it install snaps for you. Just just make you suffer. Oh, no, what we could do is also add an alias that remaps like nicks for Emacs. Like if you try to install Emacs using nicks, it it just is an alias and it echoes out why are you trying to do this? Like demeans the user for trying to install it. It prints out like the like the help the helpline for people who are mentally depressed. Oh, we've just pissed off everyone who uses I mean, come on, we have a little fun with our distro. Why Tyler's crying Matt's cheeks hurt from laughing so hard. That's the best that's the best thing ever. So all right, we got them. Should we add a GUI text editor like for me only because I know this would upset some people and it would make me extraordinarily happy for our GUI text editor. Could we make it Neovide and have like our like Neovim config that's like similar to our nice Vim configuration? I'm OK with that. We can actually make Neovim in place of them if you wanted to. That'd be OK. All right. Yeah, I'll put Neovide and then we're also uninstalling nano. Oh, oh, yes. I'll also. Nuke nano from Orbit, the greatest sister ever. The only way you can use this is if you know how to get out of them. We so should have made that instead of using the Calamari's installer just created a configuration file that launches instantaneously into them. And in order to use it, you have to know how to get out. We should do that. We could provide a text. I mean, it's just it's kind of a shame that our our distro here doesn't have a config file to install, right? I mean, actually what we could do is like after you go through and successfully install the system with the Calamari's installer, it triggers an exit of the entire graphical like session. And then once it gets to TTY, it immediately opens up Vim and then just sits there like it like it opens up a file that like to reboot exit this and then just hangs there. It's like it's like an intelligence test or whatever in order to in order to actually use the distro, you have to know how to exit them. I like it. Oh, Carlos, that's just cruel. That's so bad. That's so mean. Nano alias RMRF. So if somebody uses nano that they accidentally nuke their system. Yeah, it's so mean. We really don't care what text editor you use. But it's so much fun to make fun of people who use other just other text editors that we couldn't help ourselves. So we just don't cancel us. You can use Emacs just long as it's the flat. We don't care. It doesn't matter. It's just just Josh having fun. So here's here's the Neo. Oh, wait, go. I got stuck up on thought because Emacs has a terminal you like terminal user interface that you can use for Emacs. Does if you install the flat pack version of Emacs, do you get the Tui? I mean, because flat packs don't run in the terminal. Probably not. I wouldn't assume so. This is the best thing ever. You have 10 seconds to exit or it delays the install. You have to start over again. You got to know the colon WQ, man. All right. That's the greatest thing ever. OK, let's see. So what else do we got left to do? So default browser, Firefox, probably. Yeah, I mean, I would fight for Vivaldi, but it's not for everybody. Let's see. So why not both? You just do. There was a distro that I tried not too long ago that literally had every browser installed. Every browser installed had Conqueror and Pail Moon and like we're not going that far. We'll just do Firefox and Vivaldi because at the very least, a lot of people who do web development need two different rendering engines to test against. So there we go. This is going to take forever to install because we're not using binaries. We've got to compile everything. I like it. Yes. We force everyone to compile everything. Well, we're going to have to check to see if by using SDDM, if that pulls down plasma, because if it pulls down all the plasma dependencies along with SDDM, which it probably does, it's going to take four or five days actually get in there. Now we won't do that. We won't go that far today. Microsoft Edge preinstalled. No, no, no. I don't think we've got anything else to do, if I'm being honest. No, I think we're I think we're I think we're there. We've raced everything. We got the primary applications because what else do you need other than a browser and VIM? I mean, seriously, exactly. I mean, we're not installing a freaking office suite. No. We didn't install an operating system. It's our office suite. It's called VIM. No, yes. Thank you. Thank you. I do my PowerPoints in VIM. You should definitely should. OK. Yeah. OK. So raise the hands. Who's using the distro? I'm using the damn distro. I want I want to use this. I don't know if I'm going to stick on it for very long. It's definitely good. I want to see the favorite thing we created was the thing we created from scratch was the was the App Store. That just sounds fantastic and something that should really freaking exist. But it's this. When I came when I transformed the topic that was suggested into this, I thought we would take it more seriously. But I'm glad that we didn't. I'm glad it turned out this because this was way more fun. Some people are saying file browser and terminal, but I mean, well, OK, off the top of your head, what terminal are we going to use? Kitty. Thank you. I like it. As someone who's using West Term right now, I'm about to just kill this thing. I do not like it right now. I'm about to switch back. File manager is going to be a problem because I want to fight for Crusader. But if we do do Crusader, oh, my goodness, I think it's going to take forever to compile. Yeah. So what about Thunar? We're installing XFC anyway. So Thunar is going to be installed. So we might as well just use Thunar. Yeah. It's already there because I don't think. And I mean, that's what I use on hyperland. It's nice. Yeah, it's good. It remembers your position, has dual pain. I'm behind Thunar. No, we can't install Nemo because Nemo comes with with Cinnamon already and we don't want to compile something else. We've already compiled for days. We don't want to add more compile time. Yeah. So Thunar is a good option. I don't. I mean, those I think that's all you need. Right. If you need anything else, you can install that stuff, you know, on your own. I think the best part about this distro is that it's not going to come overly loaded with everything, even though we did, you know, make some choices that were kind of like installing two different, you know, environments. So you Darce tested the Emacs flatpacking it. He says it does ship the Tui. Interesting. Thunar Theming is fine. You just kind of have to do the GTK stuff. It could be worse. It could be completely GTK too. We could go full Midnight Commander or Double Glander, I guess. No. All right. That we could, though, just mess with people. We've done it off. Still the best the best part is the Emacs use flag. All right. That's it for this one. We're going to go ahead and move on to the Nuggies of the Week. I hope you guys enjoyed that because that was way fun. Just we needed a good laugh and now that was it. So that was that was more fun than I expected it to be. And I'm glad that we did it. So let's go ahead and move on to the Nuggies of the Week. Tyler, your Nuggie of the Week. My Nuggie of the Week. I actually totally forgot. Oh, yeah. W log out. I've been using it. I'll go ahead and show my screen. But I've got it set up with like a little power button and there's two buttons over here. I haven't really configured yet. But it's really nice. Like it's really nice. I will not accidentally press a button. I'm going to go ahead and get rid of that. But yeah, we're not going to do that today. But yeah, it's just a really nice menu. Really, to be honest, it's it's just simple. It's nice. And Darth says the term there should be X term with the default theme and fun. I was going to say you are XVT, you know, just you are XVT, just the best of things. No, that's not. And the developer, man, we don't need be top or anything like that. We have top top is top should be good enough for anybody. I mean, as someone who uses be top, I. I do disagree, but not too much tops. Fine. We ended up making that the this tour that we torture people the most, not the best one. And what did you expect people? All right. That was a good nugget of the week, Tyler. Mine is just very simply cutile. It's the best way to manage your. If you're going to use Xorg cutiles, the best one. Just seriously, it's the best one. You can do everything you want to do with cutile that you can do with any other Xorg window manager. It's fantastic. I will say that it's not the most stable thing in the world, but, you know, who's counting these things, right? It doesn't. Stability is overrated. Anyways, cutiles is mine. I'm very, very happy. I still have some I have this really weird thing where so I use the same group box widget for all three bars. So they should all be exactly the same, like exactly the same. And yet for whatever reason, the theming on the bar on my main machine, actually, I haven't switched the camera back, but you guys can't see it anyways, the theming on my main machine or my main monitor is different from the other two in the group box. I have no clue why. It's really weird because they use the exact same widget. It's all done through a group box variable. So, I don't know, it's very weird. And that's going to be something that I'm going to have to suss out because it's just very it's driving me nuts because it looks different here and then I look over here. No, it's different and I don't understand why. So that's probably what I'll be spending my evening doing other than making a video, which is what I should be doing. There's nothing. There's rice, rice, rice. There's nothing wrong with cutile and the fact that you think that it's yuck is offensive in the extreme, like in the extreme. Are you going to take him to court now? I'm suing him. I've decided that we're we're we should we are now sworn enemies and we can no longer be friends. OK, that that is it for this podcast. It was a one I had just so much fun. This it was amazing. I actually posed the end there. I said it, but you were going on. I actually kind of forgot we were doing the podcast and weren't just here talking doing this. It was so much fun. Anyways, if you want to get in contact with us, you can do so in any number of ways. The best ways to head on over to the website, which is at thelinuxcast.org. There you'll find all sorts of things, which are awesome, including past blog posts. Also, every episode we've ever done, except for the first three, which are in the Disney vault and are never coming back out. I honestly, they're they're lost to time. I don't know where those three are. I have no actually no clue to be honest with you. But anyways, all the episodes previous of the last eight seasons are all there. If you want to, you know, binge them, it's it would be a good, you know, afternoon worth of content there for you probably because there's like a hundred and forty some episodes, which which is awesome. Anyways, you can also find Tyler, who makes YouTube videos on on the YouTube at youtube.com. So that's Daniel G, especially if you're in the next head on over there. Check out his is YouTube channel. Check out his discord, which is going to be linked in the video description and on the website as well. Because if you're especially if you're in your next, that's where where it's at. And, you know, every time someone has a question on next and can't get solved in my server, I just like head on over to Tyler server. He's he's got the goods on next. Anyways, please do. Yeah. Yeah. Trying to help out everybody on my server who needs some help. So he's the next he's the next guy. I am not the next guy. He's the next guy. I'm not the next guy. You know, you don't need to want to ask me for opinions on next. Anyways, you can also find all of this stuff, including the link to my discord server, to Tyler's discord server. My master's on. I don't think I have Tyler's link to his master's on on there, but we have all sorts of other stuff for contact information. You can find that at the linuxcast.org slash contact. Make sure you head on over to the YouTube YouTube.com slash Linux cast and subscribe because we do record this live every Saturday at 3 o'clock PM Eastern time. And as you can tell today, we have a wonderful time. So join us if you don't want to watch this live, though the podcast does come out in recorded form on Monday evenings. And it's awesome. So you can listen to us, listen to us on your favorite podcatcher or catch us on video on YouTube, whichever way you want to do it or both. There's no reason why you can't listen to that episode twice. Once on video, once in audio form, just in case you miss something. It's both there. Make sure you leave a review. Also, thumbs up, subscribe, all that stuff. Thanks to everybody who does support me on Patreon and YouTube, because they're all absolutely amazing. Patreon.com slash linuxcast is where you'll go if you want to support me. Thanks to everybody who does do that already. Also, thank you if you support me on YouTube as well. I don't always forget the YouTube guys. But when I do remember, thank you for supporting me there as well. Thanks to everybody for watching. Again, live every Saturday between three o'clock and five or so today. We actually this was like a speed run. We did go an hour, but we started earlier and we're ending earlier. And it's awesome. It was a fantastic podcast. So thanks everybody for watching. We'll see you next time.