 Good morning and welcome to this week's edition of Encompass Live. I am your host, Krista Burns here at the Nebraska Library Commission. Encompass Live is the Commission's weekly online event where we cover anything that may be of interest to librarians in Nebraska and across the country anywhere. We are free and open to anyone to attend. We do these sessions live every Wednesday morning at 10 a.m. central time and they are recorded. If you are unable to join us on Wednesday mornings, that's fine. You can always watch any of our recorded sessions on our archive page on our Encompass Live website that I'll show you later. We cover anything that may be of interest to librarians. Any topics that we do presentations, interviews, book reviews, little mini-training sessions, whatever. If it's related to libraries, we'll put it on the shelf pretty much. And we have commission staff, our own Nebraska Library commission staff at sometimes these sessions. And we bring in guest speakers. And that's what we have this morning with us. The next to me here is Karen Kier who is from the Nebraska State Historical Society. And this is part three, as you can see, the third and final part of our series on digital preservation. There are two previous sessions done on February 6th and February 20th. They are both done through Encompass Live and recorded on our website now. So you can go back and watch those recordings if you want to. The PowerPoint slides are there, handouts that she put together are there with more resources that you can use. And today is our final wrap up of this series, part three about manage and provide modules of doing this. So this session will also be recorded, of course, as it is now. The PowerPoint will be made available and handouts that she's put together will also be put up for this one as well so you have the whole series that you can go and watch and learn everything you need to know about that. But I'll just hand over to Karen now. You can take over. I want to thank everybody for, welcome everybody to our final session of the digital preservation series. This is what we're going to talk about, manage and provide today and what that means for digital preservation. I am Karen Kier. I'm the photograph curator at the Nebraska State Historical Society. And as part of my job duties there, I am in charge of our digital imaging lab and developing the policies to manage that and provide access to those images that we are creating in our digital imaging lab. So this is a topic that is near and dear to my heart and I'll try to cover as much as possible today. I want to thank the Nebraska Library Commission for allowing us this opportunity to do this series of webinars on the importance of digital preservation and about how to create a plan for manage and protect your digital content. So today, today we're going to talk about depot and what that is and how it was developed, how the Library of Congress developed this model to help guide museums, libraries and other heritage institutions on the preservation of digital content. We'll discuss how digital content has been, how to manage and provide access to your digital content and what those good practices are. What the depot is, this is all part of the Husker Heritage Network that the Nebraska State Historical Society is putting together. We will have some more training opportunities coming in 2013 and 2014, thanks to a grant from the Institute of Museum and Library Services. Staff and volunteers of libraries, museums and archives will be able to learn more about digital preparedness planning, care of paper materials and more through on-site and online training like this webinar. More information is to come, but in the interim please visit the Nebraska State Historical Society's website as well as the saving Nebraska Treasurer's website. Last summer I attended the Library of Congress's Digital Preservation Outreach and Education Training the Trainer workshop in Indianapolis. It was a three and a half day training program and you had to apply to get in. There was 21 attendees from 13 Midwestern states. The idea was that we would be trained by the Library of Congress's trainers and that we would come back to our states, to our home states and teach at least one of the modules within six months of completing the training. So that's what we're doing today is I'm completing the final two modules of the training. This was the second training the trainer workshop and I think there's been another one since then. So there should be trainers throughout the country and I think if you go to the depot's website which is provided in the link on the resources page you can learn more about that as well. The depot's mission is to encourage people to think about what we can accomplish and foster a network of individuals and organizations working together to actively preserve their digital content. So what is digital preservation? Well it's the active management of digital content over time to ensure its ongoing access. Once a physical item has been digitized or a digital item has been created you can't just put it on a shelf and expect it in 50 years from now we can still access it. We need to be able to manage the upgrades in technology as technology goes obsolete or software goes obsolete we need to be able to continue to access that. So digital preservation is all about that ensuring that we can access the digital items that we create now throughout time. In the previous webinars we talked about how to identify your digital content through an inventory and how to use that inventory to select the content that should be preserved and managed over time. In the last session we talked about issues with long term storage and how to protect them from both minor and major disasters. Today we're going to talk about creating provisions for long term management and the types of considerations that there are for long term access. Here's a diagram of how these modules relate. Identify and select are in the center and all else builds on them. Note that each of these steps repeat over and over as time goes on as new material comes in. Identification and selection for preservation are ongoing processes. Once selected the content must be stored adequately it must be protected from disasters, corruptions and inappropriate access and the content must be managed and this includes policies and procedures, funding and funding issues and even more which we'll talk about today. Of course the whole point of all this digital preservation is to provide long term access to that content. As hardware and software file formats change the method of providing access and the concerns to be weighed must be considered. So let's talk about manage and what I mean when I use the term manage is really is planning. Planning to be able to tie your organization into the goals and access the skills of your organization that you will need to make a successful program. Planning to be able to also access the technology, technological needs of your digital preservation program and planning so that finally planning so that you have the resources like funding and staff to support a suitable digital preservation program. Content is important because of the complexity and ongoing nature of the problem before us. We are facing rapid obsolescence of both hardware and software. Fragile media and the fragile media on which our content is stored and complex practical issues ranging from access and legal restrictions to migration and emulsion of that content. Not only that, the amount of types of content that are both growing rapidly, the types of content are also growing rapidly. But we have not yet even clarified the roles and responsibilities for managing those materials. In 1996, the Commission on Preservation and Access and the Research Libraries Group published a seminal report entitled Preservation, Preserving Digital Information. There will be a link to that on our resources page as well. This report will identify many of the issues before us in digital preservation and provided examples of preserving content from the 1960s on. In clarifying the problem before us, the authors laid the groundwork for shared understanding and collaborative support for the development of common practices that have begun to emerge since its publications. Good management should be balanced. We often talk about this three-legged stool. Organizations must focus on technology, technological concerns to the exclusions of other parts. Organizations may focus on technological concerns to the exclusion of the other parts of the programs that need attention and contribute to a good program. Preservation planning includes not only technological aspects, but also organizational accesses, organizational aspects, and resources. Technical requirements will include such things as policy development, planning, training, and legal issues. Technical aspects include efforts to avoid file format obsolescence, preparing for new and unfamiliar digital content types, monitoring any technology that could improve or inhibit preservation, addressing higher levels of technology issues such as object packaging, funding and preserving relationships at that file, object, and collection levels, and repository-level technologies. Resources such as designating funding and necessary staff and equipment are crucial to sustainability. For long-term management of digital content to be effective, it must reflect holistic and sustained efforts to ensure the longevity of digital content. These 2003 digital preservation management workshops have used this model of the three-legged stool that encourages the use, using all three aspects, the three legs of the stool, to develop a well-informed, sustainable digital preservation program. This module is often called the three-legged stool for digital preservation. Again, the website link there should be on our resource pages if it's not, we can always add it too. Let's talk about skills. Skills needed in digital preservation are many. What we are addressing are the essentials of the program, planning, implementation, and sustainability for long-term management of the digital content. Some of these skills are needed all the time, such as project managers and metadata management. Some of them are needed periodically, such as legal and marketing expertise. The skills not available on your team as president may be available through a network and collaborations with others. Think about what you need here and what you already have. Think about what collaborations you may need to build to fill in the gaps of the things that your staff, the skills that you may be lacking in your staff. We can better address the digital preservation issues in our region. At an organizational level, here are some of the skills that might contribute to a successful digital preservation program. This is the organizational leg. Policy development. We'll talk more about that specifically when we talk about policy development in a moment and why it's important. As all of you are project managers, you know that you need to have somebody who is assigned roles guide staffs to manage projects from start to finish. You may also need somebody who is skilled in repository and software management and programming. We'll talk more about this later as well. Somebody on your team who is a metadata expert is always good. Again, like I said before, legal expertise in marketing might be something you only use occasionally. But there might be other skills too that are specific to your organization or your digital content. Why develop policies at all? Well, let's spend a bit of time talking about the benefits to developing policies related to your digital preservation program. It specifies institutional commitment. Not just a commitment, but I would look at this as a promise. It is our fundamental documentation upon which we articulate how we will develop and sustain a principled and transparent digital preservation program. The process and results of developing the digital preservation policy has primary and secondary benefits for the organization. No organization should start from scratch with this. Digital libraries and universities have shared their policies online, like the ICPSR website at the University of Michigan, to serve as role models and examples as you develop your own policies and procedures. Developing your policies will identify issues and challenges, raise awareness, help you define roles and responsibilities, and will build your digital preservation team. Additionally, this process will help you clarify our roles in institutional commitment, compliance with recognized standards, and will ensure that everybody involved knows what to expect. Other benefits include developing policy will help you build your digital preservation team. Another benefit to having a policy is that you can determine compliance or meet requirements as you undergo an audit in the museum field. We often talk about accreditation stating in your policies that we will do this and we will not do this, manages expectations to your stakeholders. You cannot preserve anything, everything, you cannot preserve everything. So having a policy means that you can point back to say this is out of our scope. Having a policy will help you identify issues and challenges as well as raise awareness. There are some organizations that have made their preservation policies and documents available on the web, so this is where Google becomes our friend. With regards to technology, organizations need to periodically review and make decisions about their technologies that will help them preserve digital content like computers and servers, software tools and utilities, and repository software packages. The process should be systematic and intentional. Documenting the process and its outcomes may make the next time easier. Weighing options against requirements should be part of this process. Outsourcing to service providers is increasingly an option and decisions should be thoughtful as processes to buy and implement technology. Technology changes in organizations can plan to keep up with it, reflecting their resources and requirements. Technology issues are usually the first area of digital preservation management that most people think of. And it is one of the legs of the stool, one of the legs of the stool, the balladge balance management. It is obviously necessary for digital preservation management. This will include both hardware and software, and you need to make sure that the correct decisions about technology, that you are making the correct decisions about technology that you are going to invest in. When selecting software, it helps to have a guide for what you are looking for and what to avoid. Remember that technology preservation is an ongoing process. So that it will be necessary to think ahead to ensure it is going to be usable for some time to come. Software should be modular in design, supporting batch processing and workflow flows, and should be sustained support. I am not going to make any specific recommendations because I think everybody needs to find what is going to fit best for their institution. Yes, that is going to be very personal. Yes. But this is just an idea of how to go about maybe looking for some key points, what is going to be best to find in that software that is going to work best for your institution. So here is a question. What did you look at that helped you choose the software product? It does not matter what it is, security antivirus or a library management system. There are some of these characteristics that will help you decide what software products will work for your institution and it doesn't really matter what type of software it is. If the software does not have these characteristics, consider that a clue, a clue, a red flag there may be a weakness in that software that may negatively impact your institution. The third leg of the stool is resources. This includes issues like the ones listed on the slide, staffing, like staffing, making sure that you have the people that have or will learn the skills necessary to run your program, whether it be just one or two or a large staff equipment. Obviously, you will need the core computer and related equipment to process, store, present and access your collection, but do not forget that you will also need things like desks, chairs, tables and other regular office equipment, plus you will have to have a place for everybody and everything. In many cases, equipment and facilities are shared with other established functions of your institution, but you need to think about how this is going to be accomplished. Succession planning. You should consider that what should happen to your digital content if your program should come to an end due to institutional changes, loss of mandate or loss of funding. You do not want your collection to just disappear. Institutional knowledge. You need to document the process, choices and decisions that have been made when you establish and run your program so that future staff will not have to guess why. This is kind of that if I was hit by a bus tomorrow effect. And of course, funding. Nothing happens without funding. Identifying funding for digital preservation can be challenging, but any program, excuse me, any program in an organization needs to sustain the funding to develop and to develop and grow. We already know that administrators don't want to talk about this because they already have so much on their plate. Managing today's demands and cutbacks may seem far more important to them than providing long-term access to digital content. Here is where we need to take some lessons from our records managers and build a case for why this is important. What is the loss of the loss to the institution if your digital content can no longer be accessed or used? How much money went into developing that content, including staffing resources and expertise? Documenting the value to the institution and to the targeted user audience will help you build a case and convince your administrators that it is important to protect their investment. Now that one key to continuation of libraries is the management of unique special collections in research, safeguarding that this content becomes critical to the future of the institution. So build your case and get your administration on board. Since that 1996 report I mentioned on preserving digital information, several standards have emerged to form the basis of good practices. Two of these are about the requirements for building and maintaining trusted digital repositories. One, the OAIS, reference model is a conceptual overview of how preservation systems should ideally work. One, the preservation metadata, implementation strategies seek to identify which metadata is crucial versus simply helpful for managing your digital content long term. Standards are still being developed, still evolving and emerging. The important thing is to use these as guide posts, map out where you are in relation to them, and identify what you can and should implement. Since that DPI in 1996, the digital preservation community now has a foundation of standards on the basis of good support, and these are commonly cited. If you're not sure what to do, these best practices exist and open up a common language among institutional repositories. So here are just a few that you might be interested in or looking into. The attributes, these attributes of a trusted digital repository have been used since 2002 by organizations to guide the support of their digital preservation programs. There's a lot here and the audit and certification process is clarifying for many just how far we have yet to go. To develop and maintain a trusted digital repository is huge and costly commitment and it requires strong collaboration. In January of 2007, representatives from four preservation organizations convened at the Center for Research Libraries in Chicago to seek a consensus on core criteria for digital preservation repositories to guide further international efforts on auditing and clarifying repositories. These organizations were the Digital Curation Center in the UK, the Digital Preservation of Europe, Nestor, which is in Germany, and the Center for Research Libraries here in North America. The attendees identified what they believed were the 10 basic characteristics of digital preservation repositories. I believe that these are a good place to start. The first two expectations are that the organization is capable of fulfilling its commitment and it does so. It is effective and efficient and it has effective and efficient policies. Digital content it selects is based on its commitment and capabilities. How many of us have documented our stated criteria for digital content and will commit to managing those long term? Institution commits to managing, another one is that the institution commits to managing the integrity, authority, and usability of its digital content. Some of this may be managed via metadata, collecting the information needed before preservation, how is that content used, how is it accessed, how is it produced, and then tracking those actions on the digital objects during preservation. For example, have you migrated a file from one format to another? How will you track that when you do? Since most formats are obsolete within 5 to 10 years, this is something you need to think about and plan for. Your institution serves as a particular community or communities. Who is your identified audience? At our institution, historical society, our audience is our faculty, students, secondary researchers from outside of our institution. Is your institution committed to maintaining the digital content needed for by your designated community? Another of the 10 principles is the dissemination requirements means generating accessible derivatives out of your preserved digital content. Remember that software and hardware keep changing. We may need to be able to continually monitor what formats our users are using and what software will deliver those files to them in a format that they can use. When we need to be able to, and then we need to be able to implement those changes as time goes on. Number nine is what we are talking about implementing right now. We all need a strategic program for the preservation, planning, and action. I honestly think that this is the first thing that many of us need to address. The last but not least, we need to have technical infrastructure that can support and maintain maintenance, security, and access to our digital objects. Again, this may well be a collaborative development to which we all contribute as we are able. Planning for digital preservation is not a one-time thing. It's an ongoing process, part of digital management, ongoing part of maintaining digital content over time. Even planning involves overall planning for the program and identifying strategies for preservation, preserving the specific kinds of digital content an organization is preserving. Every organization should do a self-assessment, update the results periodically, and at some point form a formal audit of your program. Having an outside viewpoint helps highlight things that we take for granted and forget to document and clarify. Preservation requires a show me, not a trust me approach. An organization needs to demonstrate that is following good practices. The outcome of this planning will be to clarify what digital preservation policies and procedures are going to be for your organization. Everything I'm presenting has to be applied in context to your own resources, limitations, staffing capabilities, and level of commitment to protecting your investment and providing long-term access to your precious digital content. All right, so finally we're going to move on to the Provide Act module. So let's move on to think about the entire purpose of all this digital preservation. What's the point of all the hard work and effort? Why the reason we're even thinking about it is because we want to provide access to the content over time, not just now. Ongoing preservation programs carry the digital content across generations of technology to make that content usable and understandable to current and future users. Preservations delivery systems use cutting edge technology to help make content available in the most expedient ways using the latest technology available at any point in time. Preservation systems are different. They use proven, reliable, and even stagy technologies to make sure digital content remains readable and understandable to the future. So if you try to make one system do both, preservation and access will suffer. You can tune a single system to do both preservation and access, and you can develop preservation and access systems to work side-by-side over time, with preservation to care for objects and access systems to deliver them efficiently. Concerned access needs to be planned intentionally and well-managed. Think about some of the issues you've encountered with planning access to digital content outside your usual delivery system. For example, you have content available through OAI or a shared portal. You may have noticed that you forgot to provide enough content in the metadata for your researcher to know enough to use the digital item. This is very similar, only we need to think about providing access to content outside of the context of our current hardware and software and staffing. If we preserve our digital content efficiently, at some point it will be accessed long after you and I are still working at these institutions. You can, however, lay down the policies for how content should be made available. This will ensure that we create documentation and functionality that will be needed to provide access to in usage of our digital content in the future. Policies make consistent, sustainable access possible over time. Add hot decisions, do not. Access and preservations should work side by side. Preservation makes long-term access possible in partnership with access services. Good practice requires transparency, clear, well-defined, well-documented decisions. Managing rights, preservation, privacy, and intellectual property from as close to creation as possible throughout the life cycle will make it easier to preserve and provide digital content. Waiting to address issue, rights issues until you want to provide content increases the possibility you will encounter legal barriers. Acquiring preservation rights, the right to copy and transfer the digital content to be able to preserve it over time as a time of acquisition, creation, or deposit will make it providing content over time easier. Think about your access policies for users. This is particularly at issue with copyrighted content, redacted or restricted material, and the databases which may have personal information included. Do you have different categories with different restrictions? If so, how do you handle that? How do you manage exceptions and special requests? And how do users request and get access? Or do they? Where do you keep this documentation and who should see it? Policies need to exist in written form and be implemented. Try what the requirements are for access, and also what you expect in terms of the accessed item. For example, if the textual content of a material is the most significant aspect of it, then your preservation system should be able to produce access to the text in whatever the new format is. However, if the image content of the material is more significant, then your policy should be that your access object will provide access to the image in the new format. Remember that software and hardware will keep changing and discovering delivery methods must be monitored. You will need to keep your finger on the pulse of who the users are and how they need to use and access your content over time. Policies will need to change to reflect the needs that emerge and the preservation systems and procedures should incorporate the stated policies. People in smaller institutions often wear many hats. The roles discussed here may be performed by a small set of people, but the skills associated with those roles are important. During many hats, periodically check the hat you do or should have on. Think about in what ways we need to collaborate cross-institutionally to meet some of these requirements. As we move forward, we should lay the groundwork for building the foundation we need for long-term preservation, and ideally this is a collaborative effort. Together we are far more capable and far more viable, particularly when we have a shared vision and goal. As noted, the challenge for long-term access is planning for future users. What will they want? What will they need? What technologies will they be using? Once you identify your targeted audience, plan for how you will stay in touch and how they will need to access and use your digital content. Think about implementing periodic surveys and other methods for feedback, ensuring a handshake from one generation of technology to make the next makes it possible to move content, digital content into a future that is unknown to us at the present. While copyright is the legal issue we often worry most about and talk the most about, it is not the only legal issue digital preservation may raise. There are many other legal issues that may emerge throughout the life cycle of digital preservation such as restrictions, privacy, and even HIPAA. By keeping detailed documentation and managing these issues before they arrive, you will better manage your digital collections and also never be afraid to ask for advice. Management of digital content is doable even without a law degree. It is important to make connections to somebody who can legally advise you from time to time. You may have content which you are legally mandated to preserve. You may also have content for which you do not have legal rights for or even duplication or to provide access to. Understanding your content is key as is documenting and preserving your decisions and any right statements which may impact or can impact what can and cannot or even what must be done with your digital content. To be prepared to seek legal advice and follow it, issues will emerge regarding access and preservation over time. In short to develop an effective and sustainable digital preservation program you need to understand and be able to communicate the value of the content you want to preserve. Why should administrator care? Talk to them in terms of what would be lost if digital preservation is not implemented. Identify the stakeholders, do researchers care about your digital content? Do departments at your university depend on the use of your content in its teaching classes? Do donors want to ensure that what they have donated can be accessed and used for years and years to come? Figure out what the benefits are for providing long term access. Does your donor want his grandchildren to be able to see his document? Will researchers 100 years from now need this material to be able to study culture for this time period? How much of your institution invested in developing your digital program and how much intellectual capability is represented in by your institutional repository? Think about clarifying what the benefits are to protect your institution investment and the benefits in the future that will be reaped by continuing to provide access to your visible material. The desired outcome for addressing access at this point will be to help build support for our preservation program as well as to clarify what the results will be. You need to need clear access policies and a comprehensible understanding of the links that must be maintained between preservation and access. It's important to realize that we will need to be able to provide usable versions of our digital content over time and that form of those versions will continually change. We need to clarify rights issues from the point of creation or deposits and we need to know what we can do and cannot do with our digital material. This is just the wrap up slides. In session one we covered the first two of the depot modules which were also the first of the depots baseline principles. Decide your digital content within your realm and select what you will try to preserve. These steps establish a basis for the scope of the work ahead and tell you know what you are committed to storing and managing. You really can't make us make a solid step forward. In our second session on April, March, February 14th address the issues that are considered the long term storage both in terms of what should be stored and how it should be stored. Once it's stored we need to take measurements, measures to protect our content from disaster and inappropriate access. Today we focus our management issues for the long term in considerations for providing access to your content well into the future. We need to develop and review our plans, develop and implement policies and lay the groundwork for a sustainable long term program. After all the whole point of digital preservation is to provide long term access and that will need to change continually to meet the current needs of our targeted users. For our work to be sustained and be sustainable we need to lay the groundwork, plan ahead and establish the policies and procedures, collaborations and funding to make it all possible. So where do we go from here? Well take a few minutes to think about your current situation. Jot down two or three things you think you most need to do. For each one of you think about who you might work with within your organizations or somewhere else. What challenges might you face? How much time is this likely to take and what will be the outcomes? After you think about these things I want you to pick up which one to start with. Pick which one you're going to start with. Take a few minutes to think about this and then we'll take questions and wrap up. Here's a link to a few more websites for the university consortium for political and social research. They have published their digital preservation policy standards and roles and responsibilities and more. This is a very useful role model and maybe one you want to pattern your own policies after. Federal University is a very useful online tutorial and survey for institutional readiness. Also DEPO has prepared a list of links and additional resources for each of the six modules. So thank you for joining me for these webinars and we can take some questions. Great, thank you Karen. Lots of information there. It was nice to have the wrap up there the first two in case anyone didn't attend those or watch those recordings. You can get a little brief introduction to that. So if anybody has any questions or comments or anything you want to ask if you're under share, type it into the questions section of your interface. I've got your webinar interface and I've got the questions coming in here. We can share them. The links that she showed in the PowerPoint will be added to the recording page afterwards as usual here at Encompass Live. We put all of our links that are related to any of our shows into our delicious account so people can access them. I've been working on some right now, although we've been here, believe the slides, but more will be added. There's some handouts that she did that are Word documents will be added as well in the links from there. And then anything that was in this PowerPoint will also be there along with the PowerPoint itself. Oh, we do have a request to please go back to the Identify Next Steps slide. Is that the one you're looking for, Jen? And again, all of the slides are going to be on that same website. So if you want to go back and review any of the slides or any of the steps, you can do that as well. Yep, everything will be added there. Does anybody have any questions about any of it? It's hard to come up with questions. I know it's all a lot of information. It's all kind of overwhelming when you start thinking about what your own institution needs to do. All right. I think it's a lot of it is the kind of thing that you take it back, you absorb it, discuss with other people, like you're saying, find your team, figure out who's going to do what and how you're going to get all of these things taken care of. And then maybe some of these parts you've done, too, like bits and pieces that you don't realize are part of this whole process and you need to fill in around it. Well, it doesn't look like anything really urgent is coming in right now while we've been chatting. So I think we'll wrap it up. On the last slide, Karen, I think you had your contact information on there. I did. Yep. So definitely contact her with any questions you do have afterwards as you're getting involved with it. She can help get you through this. That was the idea of going to this training, the train, the trainer aspect of it. Yes. And then the nice thing about it is if I can't find the answer for you, we have a whole network across the community, across the country with experts in the field who maybe I can't answer, but they definitely could. And we have a great listserv that the trainers have a listserv that we can access. So if you have questions, Karen could be like your main contact here in our area and then reach out to anyone else who might be able to help you out. Okay. Great. I think that will wrap it up. And nobody's got anything they're rushing to tell you right now. Thanks. So thank you very much, Karen. Thank you everyone for attending. This is great. We've got this nice three-part series going here now. We'll have all of our recordings up together so you'll be able to watch them one after another. And in case you didn't get to see them all and we'll have a nice little series here that people can use as a reference. So thank you very much, everyone. That will wrap it up for today's show. But I hope you'll join us next week when we are going to have Library Commission staff with us. So it'll be our own thing here. Talking about the Nebraska legislators database. This is a database that was put together by staff here at the Commission where you can search past and present legislators in Nebraska. So if you're interested in that kind of thing, what's going on with the legislature, this would be a great session to attend and see how you can research all this going back, we've got 1857. So it's pretty cool. I've seen this quick demo of it myself. It's very in-depth and a lot of neat information you can find out about all of the history of the legislature in Nebraska. So hopefully you'll join us for that next week. Register for that and come join us. Also we are on Facebook so if you are a Facebook user, you can like us, like N-Cup is live. And we post here updates to sessions, the announcements of when the recordings are ready, any new episodes that are coming up so you'll be able to keep up with what we're doing here as well if you do follow us on Facebook. So other than that, I think we're all good. Nobody has typed in anything else since we've been talking here. So thank you very much and we will see you next time on N-Cup is live. Bye-bye.