 I wouldn't remember. Well, how could you if it just erased your memory? That's not how it works. Now. How do you know how it works? Back it off. Okay. I'm interviewing you. No, you said that I'd be conducting the interview when I walked in here now That's a clip from a fun YouTube video titled the office as zodiac signs where they play various clips from the office if you're like my family you've kind of looked to as a Port in the storm as we look for a way to get through this Incredible medical tyranny that we're experiencing But this theme of astrology is something that me and today's guest Al from forum borealis kind of rolled into as the preamble to our conversation So I thought I'd play a little bit of that preamble According to astrologers the last time Jupiter, Saturn and Pluto were conjunct in Capricorn was 2000 years ago actually a little over 3000 years ago and now it's up. It's happening again and the triple conjunction was They interpreted last time it happened triggered the birth of the great Empire of Babylon and the Sumerian people that went on to rule and dominate the world for many millennia after So they're thinking this event could trigger a change that will have worldwide effects into the near future We certainly see movements on the ground now, but three We experienced yet another great triple conjunction now too Um Because the last one okay just lasted a few months this one We lost entire year 2021 And that's super rare And it marks significant and great change that that for example when they When buddha pitagoras and louts came to the world was during this energy just Last time and when satan and jupiter meet it's called a great conjunction and they occur light Every 200 years or something But now there is a third planet into the mix and it all happens on winter solstice, which is kind of interesting too and One last thing if you manage to see the crescent moon past jupiter and satan this week you'll have noticed something else About the two largest planets. They are now really really close to each other and yesterday they Almost appear to collide to become one super bright point of light can probably still see it in the night sky So, uh, that's why they were called a double planets in the middle ages So it's all it's all rather interesting I never tend to think that you can predict Directly you you can look at the astrological map and you can look back and you can see oh This happened and look at what happened on the globe, right? That's easy But to do it ahead I never trust that because it's so down to interpretations and there's so many Various manifestations. So what what I'm sure of is something is going to change Something is going to happen But exactly what I don't know. It could be good. It could be bad It could be subtle. It could be overt Yeah, I'm just trying to think how to process all that because I have a lot of different, uh You know, I've come to Agree With the basic concept and I kind of approached it from a different way that you did you're saying Kind of a retrospective Historical analysis There's a correlation there that's undeniable. I mean, I think the other thing that people grab on to is just their astrology Sign matches their personality more often than it doesn't and people will argue that that and some people say they don't But I think the general sense for most people is when they have a decent astrological reading They're just like wow, that is uncannily Accurate in terms of who I am. I also agree with you in terms of the predictive power is Very very weak in terms of it's clouded by interpretation But you know the the interview that I did that really changed my mind as I interviewed up And we talked about this before so it's a little bit of a repeat But we talk I talked to renae elsep who is this super duper smart PhD, you know statistics kind of genius who's also interested in astrology and she did a statistical analysis of A particular orientation of the planets you were talking about and it's correlation to followers And she used twitter as her model base her data model for you know, if people Have this configuration in their chart Are they statistically more likely to have You know just a massive amount of followers and the data was overwhelming. It was overwhelming In that in favor. So here's the question. I guess I'd lead That up to is that Do you think we Have this We how do we manage to disassociate that fact, you know those couple of facts? We just said about astrology From the larger thing that of the implications of that which is that we are connected to the whole Frickin universe. I mean, that's what it's kind of in your face telling us And we just play around with it like it's a toy, but it's the deeper deeper implications are We're fricking connected Yeah, and if you are there should be ways to measure that by the way, are we on how we started? Of course, this little clip here isn't really a good reflection of the entire show Al like I said is a very deep guy and every once in a while. He lays some absolutely paradigm shifting Nuggets on us Like how about this one? It's not about what system do we live in? It's about how many people accept the system we live in? Welcome to skeptico where we explore controversial science and spirituality with leading researchers thinkers And their critics. I'm your host Alex Sakeris and today we welcome back Alex Sakeris and today we welcome back See, I stumbled on my own name because I have an al with me But today we welcome back al From the very excellent forum borealis. I always call him al borealis because he likes to stay stealth stealthy with that last name Al if you've listened to the show, you know, we've connected a few times on his show and my show And this is a guy I am always just blown away at the depth of his Insights the depth of his interviews. He's actually changed the style of my interviews sometimes and allows me to go a little bit deeper Which he is an absolute master at So we just did a rolling introduction that I will include Either at the beginning of this show or the back of the show, but we can come back and pick it up But what I really wanted to do today If he will allow it is kind of turn this into a 2020 end of year review show and talk about Some of our favorite and not so favorite moments on both forum borealis and skeptico and I thought that would be really fun And I thought it would just be a great great person to do it with I love this guy al Welcome back to skeptico Thank you, bro I always love to discuss with you. We were just chatting a minute ago about Astrology and in particular because we're recording this the day after the winter solstice And maybe you do want to recap for people a little bit just from your understanding How significant this Winter solstice is and what it's you know, kind of bringing in now I'm gonna have to play some of that because I don't want to repeat everything I said I don't want you to have to repeat everything you said, but first of all Help people understand where you're coming from. This is not like your thing You know that you do on a full-time basis. You're just a curious person who Sees some of this as being important, right? It's true, but I do have close friends who are masters of this craft Known people since I was 16 who's deep into this but what made it for me, you know Astrology is it's like any other unprotected field If something is popular and it's not regulated. I'm not talking about from the state, but At least from the industry itself from the skill people itself anyone can call themselves an astrologer So I'd say and I'm I'm probably being generous But I'd say probably 80 percent of the people who practice this are clueless They're into it for all the wrong reasons so The chances for an average Joe who has no clue about astro getting some decent input on astro is very low Because first of they don't even have a tool to know how to get a good astrologer if they even could get one The best ones don't waste time giving readings, but back to the point. What did it for me? It was actually science three different Or maybe I should include four include studies on cycles, but there are at least three different scientific Evidences for correlations if not causations because causations isn't important here It's not you don't have to believe that the planet is beaming a ray into your skull and making you act like a robot I mean you could go for that medieval view But my point is that if everything in existence is following laws laws of nature laws or whatever Then and everything is following rhythms then And faces and cycles then you can use The heavens as a mirror as a map And if you do that uh over enough time like the mayans did like the Babylonians did like the shannies did like everyone's done Indians so you see oh, hmm. Here's some changes in the heavens and look look folks There's some changes going on in earth too now after a hundred years Thousand years. Oh, look, it's the same kind of changes happening when it's the same kind of Um Changes going on on earth So it's as above so below. So What's the chicken? What's the egg? What's influencing? What if if not indeed both are following our mutual Deeper causation, but that's not the important thing. What's the causation there is an undisputed Correlation and I'm not just saying that for my own personal Conviction i'm saying that because of scientific evidence. I have three different Books scientific reports about this plus books about cycles And it's all very known for those who want to know one of them very famous and this kind of research was done Mostly before because nowadays skeptics pseudo skeptics. I take an over most of science, but In the 70s, they were very good. Uh, and one of them michel gorgie len I think is his name a french man He even killed himself because No matter how much good info he threw on the table Look look at the facts folk. Look at the facts didn't help ad hominem ad hominem ad hominem Everyone went after him It's the same old tune. We've heard it a thousand times and you've covered it many times in your excellent shows every time a scientist Steps outside of the accepted paradigm paradigm folks not the research not the methodology but paradigm And prove something with it if it debunks something with it. That's okay. You can go outside the paradigm and debunk But if you prove something You gotta you gotta bring him down. So that's my My in general why i'm but then I have a personal element. I used chemistry horoscopes, which means you make two Charts one Where you make one shot, but you base it upon Two different people. It doesn't even have to be people. It can be you and an event or whatever But you make a like a chemistry reading and Decades I did that in connection with dating In the best motivation in the world man because you you you don't accept any It's just tangible results, right and indeed I did get that So so after that it was a close case for me don't deal There's so many interesting parts about that and we were chatting about it before so I'm I am going to repeat a little bit of that because You know science is going to have to be one of the things we talk about today because I think 2020 in a year in review was Kind of the the final assault On science as I see it. It was the final breakdown of like we don't even need science We're just past these edicts and just say stuff and just in your face You know, we don't care about the science But like there's so many subtle shades to it that that need to be understood I know some people are going to react to when you say A causation doesn't matter, but I think you're just absolutely spot on And here's the bigger picture for me from a scientific standpoint is that one Correlation is the beginning of all scientific inquiry I mean that that is called observation We observe something that seems to be correlated with something else and that begins our observation So on astrology, you know the the people that that kind of don't understand the correlation thing And the critics will point to well, you know every year this Insurance company will say which drivers are the most accident prone and they'll say capricorn And then they'll go ha ha ha. We were just data mining every year. It changes We just take the statistical most accidents by this age by this Date, you know and da da da. Well, so they are correct in pointing out how Correlation can be misapplied, but what they're losing sight of is that fundamentally statistics Are about Correlation properly applied. So when I Said a minute ago about the research that, you know, really impressed me of renae alsop was on the show and did this It's Very refined peer and peer reviewed Sophisticated Monte Carlo statistical kind of thing, you know all this stuff that's way over my head But you can read it and at least say that person knows what they're talking about because they reached My my limit of my understanding of statistics and that was like in the first two sentences But what she found was a highly statistical Highly statistically significant correlation between a particular Planet correlation, you know the what you were talking about Planet juxtaposition planet alignment and the extent to which Those people who had that in their chart would have a lot of followers a massive amount of followers on twitter. So I guess i'm just trying to Back up what you're saying because I think it's it's a super important point And it's about the subtleties of science that at this point, you know I don't know I I just don't seem to be having those kind of conversations Anymore with people science has been degraded down to the point where you can't separate out These methodological issues and and these these other Social issues that come along with the baggage of science. So Maybe we want to talk about that for a minute just in terms of How uh, how science is under under attack Yeah, but let me just say about the correlation causation thing that Of course it matters What's the causation if you really want to crack open the mechanism or something? But in terms of just knowing that astrology Or I prefer the word astro sophie to distinguish it from the trash astrology, but To know that that works Even though we may not have mapped every ounce and aspect of it Then you just need a correlation It's it's the same as you can you know, if you talk with a nurse she will tell you yes, it's true I guess we could talk about it from a couple of different ways But one yet and and this is kind of the geeky science stuff though That is interesting to me in having these kind of conversations because you realize how This is so often left off the table when someone says where I'm asked don't wear a mask and you go Well, where's your scientific evidence For how that is efficacious in the real world and you do have to break those things down So I'd go back to correlation causation. I would say we will never know the causation of everything Because from an occulted standpoint from an extended consciousness standpoint, you know, one of the things My first book by science is wrong is we will never know that completely. So yes, we can add more and more Uh causations as control mechanisms But we only like them because they have a high higher degree of correlation with the outcome, right? So if we say gee, you know when it rains the plants grow and we go and test that we find that the the Rainfall is highly correlated with the the plants growth and then we find some biological reason for that But we also have other things that we've left out You know, like someone was giving an intention to have that particular crop grow Well, we didn't factor that in so we can't really say that we've totally nailed the causation All's we can say is we've identified some causative elements that are highly correlated with the outcome we want So I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying. I'm just saying that a lot of times that this smirky Scientific materialism that we've all just come to to completely distrust because it's completely fake has always been Fake and we've just been kind of conditioned by their language to kind of accept what they're saying A lot more than we probably should and this year is the final insult, you know 2020. Yeah. Yeah No, but that's normal. There's always been a clash between those theories Regions and you know practice Because I was about to say like if you ask a nurse she'll tell you that yeah, it's true Under full moon more babies are born and under dark moon the opposite more people die And so they always have more Baby nurses what's he called so they have more midwives and birth nurses at work Every full moon And at every dark moon they have more of those who work with death at work because they know in advance It will happen. They don't care why And there may come some kind of egghead in and say no, no, this is Superstition and it has nothing to do with the moon and blah blah blah But he could say that to women too in terms of menstruation, right? But they wouldn't listen to him. They would probably indulge him But as soon as he was gone, they would go back to you know, business as usual more people at work then So that's what I'm saying from a practical standpoint if there is a correlation we can work with that The question of co-session is more important because then it's not just, you know Everyday life how are we relating to it then it's understanding. Why is it? So we can change it or manipulate it somehow. So yeah, that's when Real science enter in and that's where they can get away with things because you're very right The ultimate co-sations and as an assertion, that's what we're working with right so the ultimate co-sessions I mean can't explain the manual can't explain that to as long ago the thing in itself you can never really know You can know the thing in you which the thing in itself has to be filtered through in order to be Recognized perceived whatever and so it's true. We cannot that's because existence is rigged against us It's rigged against us in the way that we only have five windows Maybe you could argue we have our six one, which is half open, but we have only five windows between ourselves Which is the ultimate reality and the world Those five windows those five sensors are super limited and we are so indeed ingenious because we create tools to Browden them more So we can know more what's going on. That's for example an x-ray machine does that But then on the other hand we are so stupid to human beings that we try to feel those frequencies that we normally don't interact with As in 5g right where we pollute and You know the problem then and then that's one we have to discuss co-session is what what Backlash does it give And if you can't immediately uncover it And document it 100 percent then they can get away with it because You know it's so hard to find real co-sations and and that's so much crime is getting away with it So but in terms of the pandemic, I think there's different co-sations going on And then the correlations are you know, whatever the total balance of those different Inputs come when they come in play together they find some kind of Way to You know, it's like different waves being clashed into each other and Wherever is the midpoint? That's that's the Correlation we find ourselves in Tell me what you mean there. Let's I wasn't this This isn't really where I was planning on going but let's let's go there Let's talk about the pandemic. It was obviously one of the most important events of 2020 Your shows were instrumental to my coming to grips with it pretty early on because I'll just maybe you can tell us, you know, what shows you've done on the pandemic and how it impacted you but And then I can offer I can offer my opinion But go go ahead tell us tell us how you covered it and how you covered it from the beginning of the year Through the end of the year and where you come down on it now Okay, and after that you tell me how you covered it So how I covered it was that I really didn't want to touch it at first because it was a 24 hour new cycle Right, right. We were all fed up But then I realized damn. I can't stay silent some days And so I started making some shows and interestingly As many people said We come to you to to get away from all this shit. That's when I realized oh Damn, that's a good Function to have so but I had to cover the basics of it. So I started with With our mutual friend Robert Bonomo Because I wanted to have First the financial aspect and that's because Before the pandemic And I was one of the few voices out there who touched it, but or it was completely ignored in a shame stream press And also in the pan media almost no focus, but that's that the Economic was crashing before the pandemic and of course the pandemic just escalated it even worse in fact Before the pandemic Half a year before the pandemic The fed rail reserve was pumping one trillion dollar a day into the stock market to make it afloat But you don't hear about that. So we we had a show called the money game mmt ubi in the corona crash Then I covered the virus itself in a show called what you should know about the pandemic and There I Focused on the most sin because you notice there's like two different Polarities in the counterculture media about this one is the pandemic thing And nothing to see here folks is all a scam Move on and the other is this is either a deliberate or an accidental bio weapon lab spill And it's not an either or but let me just say the third aspect the third show I did which was probably your favorite That's was with the investing independent research investigative journalist. George web Called spooky aspects of corbin who was the second one. Who is the second one with again? It was a doctor Yeah, dr. Absley great guys so And the third was josh web spooky aspects and there we went into Actually a little bit about it follow the money a little about about the virus a little about how this is planned but in my world all this can be Reconciled because you know as well as me that the shock doctrine has never been More in use than now. They tested it out first in foreign countries and then after a while they started implementing it on American citizens too like 9 11 etc You could even argue jfk was kind of a shock doctrine. So what they do whether you believe that the Cave arabs with box cutters was behind the whole thing in 2001 Or you don't The fact is that when something like that happens they cease upon it They seize upon it with pre planned And pre tested scenarios. It's not it's not like invented on the spot They have plans. They want to implement and they've had it for years and they still do and we all know what that is and so every time Something shocks the population because you know the battle isn't Happening in the independent areas. That's where the People are had having their heads up their asses That's what they think there are in their own bubbles bubbles are the big problem today echo chambers and bubbles For everyone not just the independent But the real battle is how many of the sleepwalkers can be reached And the thumb rule has always been for the powers that be anywhere any time that you need To pacify a certain amount. There's two ways to do it Either by brutal force, which was very popular in the past Which is very risk and dangerous because the backlash is so bad. I mean, it's the Guilty and and and an even worse regime after that The other way is to pacify them, you know, the Hollywood style The It's it's basically 1984 versus brave new world. So brave new world Keep them happy keep them Fad and you know throw them some bones and let them play with that Now the oligarch of today has forgotten all the lessons. I mean, you're a great president In the 30s and the 40s who brought you out of the depression brought in the new deal and He was criticized. Oh, you're a goddamn. You're yielding to to the socialists and Soviet and whatnot. No. No is it I I saved capitalism because he understood We cannot I you know, just destroy the whole middle class. So So but that lesson has been Forgotten now we're in the exact same situation and now they're making it worse. So it's gonna be very interesting to see what happens but I talked myself away from the point sorry Well, then maybe maybe you need to push on through so What are you really saying there in terms of you know, the roosevelt's new deal versus The current global financial reset that a lot of people are talking about so if I can connect your dots You're talking about our friend robert bonomo saying You know, hey, the thing doesn't really float, you know, we have these We were comfortable with the term zombie banks Well, now we have zombie nations of which the us is one and virtually every country Europe is one So, you know, how does that really go? Yeah, it's very evident right now because in america in europe they keep us Throwing us toys so we can sleep on everybody's getting bail out Which of course when you force a lockdown also Hold on because because I did want to kind of get to the end point here Which is what I never hear anyone talking about so everyone gets to this point that you're talking about and then the conversation just kind of Peter's out or it just goes okay, so they're going to do a reset You know the other way to do a reset is war, right? Yeah, I mean you go to war with china You got a reset, right? I mean because you a straight up war you say, okay Well, you're holding all the chips, but what you're really holding ha ha ha is just notes against us against us So now we say screw you we're not honoring any of the notes Game over so that's another way to do the reset and i'm not advocating any of this people I'm just saying why not that that seems to be off the table. It's always like oh my gosh We're just printing more money. It's like well, so what do you know? Why is that necessarily ever going to there's there's a couple ways to solve that problem and the the it's not It isn't necessarily You know this very global Agenda driven reset and I hate when we start using that language again and again, I'm not advocating I'm just saying that isn't the only solution No, I agree but First off, I want to just say I was getting originally to the point that you know virus reas pandemic. It may be both There may have been an actual spill And they may have seen it and they then seized upon it with the pandemic. You see what I mean So it doesn't mean that oh, there's no such thing as covid and oh, don't worry if you get it It may still be serious And on the other hand, yes, it may be exploited for More sinister political purpose because that's what they do with crisis They take them and they try to shape Because here's the thing. I was talking about the fight to win over the Sleepwalkers. I I always have that in mind that there may be sleepwalkers listening to me. So I always need to reach them I don't want to get too esoteric Unless that's the whole point with the show. So and that's brilliant opportunities for the powers to be because they could never Lock down stuff on the normal circumstances The sleepwalkers wouldn't allow it because that would shook them so much That they would realize. Oh my god The world isn't as safe and comfortable and simple as I I desperately wanted to believe I'm feeling it on my own body now and that's Always good grounds for revolutions and reforms and changes from below because that's when everybody is losing They're waking up, right? This oh, I've been hypnotized. I've been a zombie. Okay. Come with us boys. Let's fight the man But the man does the same 9 11 and now The majority are a full of fear and disoriented and that's when you shovel down Before they get to think about anything or organize or anything you shovel down through the throat Insane measures that never could have gone through in the normal circumstances. So that's the big battle In crisis like this To win over the the sleepwalkers now to what you said In e you can we pause there for a second talk about sleepwalkers because You know, this is gonna be this is gonna be our classic kind of conversation It could just kind of go on endlessly in all these different directions But your point I think is so so important and again, I would because that's mom's that skeptical I'd have a slightly different perspective on that one And tell me what you think but I will bet you anything your experience is the same It's not so much that we are waking the sleepwalker It's that we happen to be around when they wake up, right? Because the the the resistance to waking up is so strong And particularly from a spiritual perspective, you know, this is like a deeply ingrained pattern That might even span lifetimes We have to suspect for a lot of people because we see them and it is so deeply ingrained they can be given Piles and piles of evidence and it just does not change them We need to look no further than our religious institutions, you know, and it's like no matter What is exposed you just keep following that there was a very famous book written when prophecy fails about cults And that would make prophetic predictions And you would anticipate that when you say that the world is going to end on march 5th And the world doesn't end on march 5th You would say well, that's probably the end of the cult and what he found was exactly the opposite Yeah, a few people drifted away, but the majority Double down and that is the sleepwalker phenomena So I think that what's really is sleepwalking is about is we happen to be there when they wake up Which is kind of a neat thing But I do so much agree with your other point, which is I always think us in the alt alt community which we are because we're not even the alt community more We're the alt alt community But we far underestimate the power that that is in the hands of the social engineers of the mk ultra You know educated mk They went to the mk ultra institute 50 years ago and they're so much further along than that And the tagline always uses they have not yet begun to fight So if you think there's going to be this massive Waking up that is then going to kind of storm the gates of the castle with pitchforks and torches Maybe but I would say be ready for a lot of counter attacks From weaponry that they have stacked up that we haven't even begun to contemplate. What do you think? Oh my god, this better be a three hours because I have an hour reply only to that one But Um First of you're very right. Uh, it doesn't mean that first. No first of who's waking them up. You're right. It's not us It's the material conditions because we have Mars love hierarchy of needs and if you fuck with my ninth priority I may let you go. I may you know, it's not worth it fight But if you fuck with my primary or secondary I mean, I need food in my belly and I need roof over my head and I need a whole lot of other Things before I can sit down having this convo with you Alex and so when they take that away or they shake it up for folks And you and me we can handle. I mean we can watch Horror movies and not flinch we can we can be abducted by aliens and and ask doesn't it go any faster? but if you just you know just The idea of a ghost to a sleepwalker is shaking them up in their Core so imagine how they are handling because they're the whole paradigm I sound so arrogant of us to call them that we are all sleepwalkers in different areas Okay, so it's all about waking up. Nobody's better than yes. Good point. Yeah, but here's the thing When it happens to them because their value system and paradigm Are hundred percent dependent on there's not going to be a change if there's change is incrementum what you call it increase mentalism and incremental incremental and it's It's just Abstract and theoretic. Yeah, they're Russian revolution in 1917 all the black plague. Yeah, I can get those Concepts, but don't talk to me about look at poor Graham Hancock. Why does those guys get so much? They have all the facts on their side And they go after the man. That's because you you're unpopular massengers because they say no the world can just go under You know the the driest period in all that debate overnight They don't want to think about that. They're traumatized from Atlantis. Okay, because astrology is just like the genes. It's just a map It's not the genes driving me It's a correlation and however I experience life Influences my genes and it's the same thing with astrology just to close that Debate that was a callback now to the current debate. So it's about The material conditions and then yes, you're right Many will double down. That's a very good point. You made you you'll see because they're not ready to come out and admit That you know, they have been in an ally in an illusion So they have to fight even harder. No, you have to wear a mask or go down kill you Or you have to take the vaccine. Yes, give me a chip. Yes So so they become they are fascist weed as Willem Reich proved in his book The function of the orgasm. It's very connected to our character and psychological design now even those guys have Hard limit and I'll give you example of where that's been passed just now lately but I also want to point before the out before that that Even though many doubled down and become like crazy cultists for that big cult called society We get record numbers over to our side Which that means in broad terms the counterculture side and I'm not going left right here because that whole thing in itself is It's kind of an illusion or it's not an illusion. It's a distraction because it's true in cultures matters in values But not on the primary matters and that's where populism has to band together because For example, if you are right being populist, you are against wars But mainly so because you don't want to fuck up other countries Because you're a nationalist and you don't want other countries to fuck up your own you realize that plus you don't want to blow back of a million Refugees etc or the bad karma what you plus you don't want the money to go to war industry You wanted to go to build up your own country that you love and and yourself that you need to stay alive. Now if you're at the left You will probably have more Emotional and ideal idealist reasons for it. It could be in jail like you're like buddhism. Oh, I'm against You know, I'm a pacifist. I'm against hurting others anyway Or and you can share some like you want the money to be spent in your own country for, you know social welfare, whatever so If you can get those two guys to fight over, you know Cultural issues or identity, you know gender issues or abortion Boom you win and this I don't I'm know I'm flogging a dead horse. We've been down this road many times So let's just put that to the side now in Europe Well, hold on. Hold on. That was that was absolutely brilliant. I don't care how many times We've we've covered it or it's been said you you very succinctly I think captured something there. That's awesome. I loved hearing it. So please continue Okay, cool because I believe we can co-alite not just across left and right wing, but across everything But it's not about our differences. That's what they want to point out. We have to point to the goals So if people let's say low freedom, let me pull you back in a different direction here Let me Piss on all that which I I kind of like to do sometimes because I am such an idealist. I am such an advocate of just life and love and Prosperity on a personal level as well as every other level level So I so resonate with what you're saying because it's so optimistic But let me be less optimistic. Okay, and let me return to the point of They have not yet begun to fight because as you alluded to some of the tools at their disposal is like this identity politics Right. They they can put they can undermine your glorious strategy As they have so effectively with just something as simple as identity politics. Yeah, and it's completely Effective I get it. I agree with you But let me give you even more hope from because we have to be scientific and not idealistic when we discuss this So I'll back up My points from reality not from my wish list if it was my wish list we were discussing I will paint an even better picture for you. So let's let's Anchor this in reality just these days here Something interesting have happened on American left because you know, I make a point out of not being in an echo chamber So unlike most people in in penfield I think unlike most I think I'm in a minority I deliberately keep oriented in all areas of existence that I you know can You know within my resources and politically I keep an eye both on the left and the right because there's interesting things going on in both And right now as we speak, you know 80 percent of americans want a universal health care system. It's just magy area and you say who hasn't got it yet and That's 80 percent of No, sorry, it's 70 percent of american. It's 89 percent of democrats It's 55 percent of republicans and I don't remember the number for independence But if the overall number is 70 percent, then the mouth is there now Politicians it's the opposite you'll find a handful Who probably support let's say bernie's version of medicare for all because make no mistakes forks universal health care Comes in five different versions from a left wing solutions like uk and the nhs to a right wing solution Which is what they in america called the public option now That's not what america has you have corporatism And no politician is backing it and you have here are a lot of voices on the left saying they want it Well, look at what just happened jimmy door that loose cannon. You have to love the guy He's the alex jones of the left and he Has now exposed One of the biggest independent networks Out there that well the thing is they're not independent anymore. Namely the young turks They were once upon a time pretty innovative and independent But long ago been mainstream and they're in hillary clinton's pocket and establishment And he's exposing it live and he's turned 80 percent of the Of the young turks audience against them. Why? because he is now Find himself accidentally at the spearhead of a campaign To expose the so-called progressive left politicians like the squad aoc And all the new ones that coming in because and bernie sanders too Because they're not fighting for medica for all because nancy pelosi that old cunt. Can I sorry? read that but she's disgusting and She they want aoc and those guys to force her To have a floor vote on medica for all Not that it's going to pass but they want to see which politicians in both parties That are actually going to block it in the middle of a god and depression where people lose their jobs And for some weird reason jobs that are attached to healthcare in america Which keeps them, you know Slaves attached to the jobs and not seeking careers But now they even lose that and they don't have healthcare and it's a depression and it's a good and pandemic So they want to see which politicians because if you go get those names down They'll be destroyed In the next elections because now people care because everybody wants it because nobody you alex are upper class So you don't feel the pain, but your brothers and sisters Are really suffering now 50 percent About to lose their homes and i'm not blaming any Particular it's not like this is trump's fault the russia's fault or anything But it's congress. It's it's mostly to blame and that's democratic governed now They they have a leverage over nancy pelosi because she meets their votes just one vote Can boycott her as the new speaker in the house? She's going to renew all though She promised to step down She's up for reelection and so they had leverage for the first time a or c and those people are leveraged and what do they do? Nothing Nothing nothing nothing nothing they just no no and you saw that in election too. They said No, no support biden support biden. He won't give you anything you want but support biden and it's the same now They're so loyal and jimmy door is not pushing and saying people if they don't Withheld do like the tea party did on the right With hold a vote for nancy pelosi until she gives a floor water medicare for then They're all exposed as fake populists and Young turks came out against it, but everybody is for it And that's the positive thing alex when you see sleepwalkers Because I believe there's at least as many stupid people on the left on the american left as or on the american right If not more and when you see they realize That everybody is a part of the game the young turks aoc Nancy pelosi. It's all It's either the establishment itself or they are controlled or blackmailed or Or seduced or pressured. So now it's a real populist uprising going on on the left and not just in america in india right now There's 200 a million people in the world's biggest general strike because when the media is sold when the politicians are on the take When every institute democratic institution That we can use to implement The beautiful ideals you were describing that you share with everyone no mem no matter their paradigm or their political affiliation or whatever Just freedom basic prosperity happy harmony, whatever then people band together like they do now and Jimmy door is heading it and it's the majority and They are now realizing it is a lie and this can spill over to other areas too Hold on a second because this is going to be this might be a major Rift not really but but just a dividing point in this discussion because Like to me i'm so surprised that you would go with universal health care Because I think from my read of that from where I sit in the alt alt community is that whole movement has taken About five steps back Because we're now facing a medical tyranny that is unlike anything we could have anticipated We didn't think they would get to this level of control with an all out fake medical Oppression of people for 20 years and they've accelerated in the last year. They have it I mean vaccines are going to be mandatory to some extent whether it's you can't fly on a plane Or you can't go to the ball game or whatever the heck it is Vaccines will be mandatory and once we're to that point. There really is no there really is no fallback So I don't want to be any part of that medical system Universal health care. I I understand my brothers and sisters who are who are suffering But I would suggest that they need to re-examine their life and see how they can more effectively withdraw from the phony tyrannical and ineffective medical System that we have I I don't know why we want to move No, no, you misunderstand. Let me clarify Okay, so I'm just talking about financing health That can be done many different ways financially You but if you're talking about the contents of the health apparatus That's an actually another debate and it's not tied automatically to finances because for example in uk Homeopathy and separate them Can't you? Yeah, I'll I'll prove it in uk you have Homeopathy accepted as part of the public health care So it's free like at a point of service like anything else And that's because they have their own debates The problem with what you're pointing out isn't who's financing it. The problem is That big multinational corporations Pfizer Monsanto everyone we we know who they are Not only are they the same as the owners as the digital corporations and the military industry and media But also they are calling the shots So they don't want to give you Universal health care because they want a price gouge You have a scam system. First of you have a needless middleman and mafia the insurance companies Who exploit it and their interest is not to pay out So even if when you have health care, you don't really have it as your experience when it manifests But secondary what do you want out? What do you want out of the health care system? I can you know if I fall down and break my arm I want something Hold on. I want something. I want something from if I fall down and break my arm break my leg I want something from the health care system in all other situations. I can't think of anything I want from those fucking people. I have a heart attack. I'm not interested. I have a stroke not interested I have cancer. I'm certainly not interested. What the fuck do I want from the fucking health care system? Emergency triage if I have a cut if I cut myself in the in the fucking kitchen with a knife Yeah, I want them. I want to withdraw 90 percent fucking just because they uh, yeah, they're gonna fucking placate the Brits with their homie homop, homie, homop, whatever, you know, that's just It's just bullshit. I want to withdraw Cut the health care system by 90 percent. Then I'm in you miss understand man, and I'll address your good points because I understand your Protests, but they are misplaced because your concerns are Not a problem. If you break your leg It's who's gonna finance the solution if you get cancer. Who's gonna finance the solution? Here's the point You're saying you don't want to go to allopaths to treat that. That's fine. Who says The point is you're gonna have expenses. Who's gonna finance those expenses as it now stands In the whole world It's not a profit. It's not a commodity Like I'm a libertarian. I think that you should have an open marketplace Market in town square kind of thing if you invent something it belongs to you Internet was like this in the beginning it was free And that's how it should be but the military should never be privatized to corporations And run by them The police and the prisons should but you have done it with the prisons. That's crazy and the fire department Should not be run. Should not be a business and the same with education and the same with health now Does it mean that the state or some special interest group or some corporations are going to dictate the philosophy Of that health system. No because that's another matter And today you don't have a state run health system and you still have those people in power And they are also very influential here but less because they can price coach medicines in america Like you can go to canada or mexico and get it for one tenth of the price because there's not a competition there about it Here in norway Nobody has an interest in keeping me sick Or or or refraining me from getting health care because of the insurance But in america, there's so many poisonous incentives. There's so much criminality in the system that they have taken over the state so the fdr Food and drug is completely corrupt And they are all influenced by the multinational corporation and when they those people become politicians they influence politicians and those politicians Work in those companies. So it's a revolving door. It's so there's special interests have taken over It's not about who finances it and you can have a system where you have insurance. This is the right wing system You you have private insurance, but it's a real competition among the insurance companies. It's not like now rigged And those who can't afford it It's not it's not going to be tied to your job. By the way, it's just going to be tied to you what you pay And what and the jobs are now I go back to my question What do you want out of the health care system? I don't want I the what I want is so minuscule that we don't need to jump through all these Gyrations, what are you worried about? Are you worried about a million dollar cancer treatment or I mean, what are you worried about? I'm not worried about any of those things like so I don't have any interest in it. So yeah, it's corrupt It's completely corrupt. It's come from its core, but it's philosophically. It's it's it's not even based in reality So I don't know why what you what you're fighting for so back to the personal question What do you want? What are you afraid of that you're going to need to buy from those phony baloney? health peddlers No, uh, I I mean nothing would change today. I have full freedom. I only use the health options. I prefer Okay, and that's probably because I haven't had any serious health is incidence But if I get cancer, for example, I'm gonna go. I'm not gonna take You know the radiation therapy But I'm so lucky right because I can choose because I don't have to pay for this stuff if you come visit me as a foreigner and you Run over by a car Then you get free healthcare if you come here Visit me as a foreigner and something more serious happens You get a long-term disease you get you get treated for free here so Um, I don't have to worry about that So there's a misconception that people in europe have about the medical system the united states It's it's not the it's not like that It's not like if you go if you go get admitted to the hospital They turn you away because you've gotten a car accident. You don't have insurance That's that's just not the case and the way that it always is, you know Because you're talking about like on a different level I don't know how you process that inside of the medical tyranny where they're going to make people Take vaccines that are just We don't know what the hell they are Because we don't know what the virus is And you know back to If we rewind this all the way back to your covet interviews The great thing about your covet interviews is that the very beginning you identified this thing as if not a bio weapon certainly in engineered Uh, uh virus and I think that's such an important foundational fundamental piece To have in place because we can trace through my shows over the year over this last year But that became a real hot issue. I interviewed david eich and he came on and said there is no virus And I love david eich to death But I said david surely you don't believe that they have not isolated the virus But this has become a hot issue in the alt alt community and it shouldn't be it's flat earth science And then when you exposed with again your george web thing was phenomenal because there's an investigative reporter who starts at that point and then Gets back to your thing of the pandemic, you know, it's like are they just taking advantage of Uh capitalizing on an opportunity implementing accelerating their plan that they already had in place Or is it even more of a of a planned orchestrated event? But I'll take all that that I just laid out and I'll say now Please step back and tell me how you pack that back into how you could ever trust a healthcare system that is put us in this position how you could ever trust them or have any kind of A soapbox to talk about universal healthcare Fuck that let me out of it Yeah, well, I don't see the relevance between how you finance healthcare and the corruption you're pointing out in Not just the healthcare system, but among it's an ideological Collusion basically and it's it's the oligarchs who's behind it But what what on earth does that have to look if they want to force vaccines is going to happen in america Or they don't have universal healthcare and it's going to happen in norway where we have universal healthcare It's nothing to do with how you finance it So who gives a shit about universal healthcare? Who the fuck cares how you get there whether the public is financing 80 percent of it over here and the public is financing 100 percent of it over there I know I understand where you want to take it. So I'm going to address that. Okay. I'm going to go to the vaccines, but I have to Because I'm a I'm your friend have to you know Open your curtains a little and show you some reality you're not seeing Because what's happening now because of the pandemic is that not just individual jobs are lost industries are destroyed And it's not just that they are destroyed They're destroyed by other industries deliberately. For example, the tech industry goes from 100 to a thousand whereas For example, the whole hospitality industry the whole travel industry Almost all small jobs personal businesses like you started out All of them are being destroyed not because of their incompetence or something they did or whatever It's forced upon them No matter if you have universal health care. Totally right has nothing to do with health care the result is the result is that all those people Are without health care because it's tied to the jobs not in europe because they bought us out here As my friend, don't you see the air in your logic? You've bought into this fear mongering that you've bought into this idea You've leaped from a couple of important facts You've leaped from the facts that yes, they've destroyed all the all the jobs that you could potentially have So that they can control completely control your life But then you've been sold on this idea that what they need to replace that with is health care And i'm saying health care is the biggest fear mongering fucking system in the world You can't destroy entire lines of businesses and replace it with health care First of people need money before they need health health is like a secondary concern I was talking about the hierarchy of needs and that's what they're doing now They're removing people's primary and secondary needs and people are going to fight to get that back Now the freedom aspect make it lost in it. I agree with you if you get the tyranny of Big pharma, which we already have by the way, but they are getting stronger in this process We have to fight that but that's not That has nothing look. We have to get the jobs back freedom is what we have to fight for and So what's happening now is that the big corporations are totally taking those jobs I think I said to you in one of our conversations If it wasn't to you I should have said it because I've said it to others and that's that I fear that especially in America more and more people are working for the corporations Because then they will Support corpocracy because they are dependent upon them. I'd be much rather have Libertarian society where small businesses are thriving And not the big corporations But the state has a role in this because for today the state is in bed with the big corporations. I'm saying give the bed Give the state the bed of the public People so we can you know, it's from the bottom. Wealth is created. It's their innovation happens. The corporations are parasites they can Destroy other businesses. They can take over hostile. They can buy them up. They can do everything Under mind and with prices, etc. But they can never create. They can never contribute. They can never Always when somebody do that, it's being swapped up at the bigger ones. So I think you conflate the idea of having the freedom of not worrying about your health with being in some kind of fascist Structure where as alop at the shovel down your throat Those are two different things. We agree that that's bad and we can avoid that no matter If we finance it Like we do in the whole world or if we finance it like in nigeria and usa because it's happening both places And the alternatives are both places too So yeah, sign me up for fighting for more sunlight more personal exercise, etc But the thing is people who don't have a home now or a job now or any income now They need something And while we are waiting for that solution to be implemented, they need to survive And if we were beginning from scratch, it would be so easy Then we could design like a wrong pool paradise, right? Like go back a couple of hundred years Not in terms of technology, but in terms of personal freedom But we're not there. We are at we are at It's dramatic energies going on man and to tie that call back to what we began with the whole year Will be a year of change and we better keep our tongue straight in our mouth. We better try to keep a clear perspective because We know who will seize up on this chaos That's the bad guys that we all agree about and i'm telling you everybody agrees alex the sleepwalkers too It's just that they think they don't know where the bad things are coming from So they are tricked into supporting, you know, they're taking the As a salvation they are going to take their the doom That's how it is So but if you can point them to solutions to what they want Like you said earlier in the show all you want for society everybody can support it, but they don't understand Which salute where it's coming from So In crisis like this you can get people to revolt against the powers that be they're doing it on the god i'm left The left who is so loyal to authority who has been buying into russia gate history all this time Even those people are waking up in the populist left They woke up before You because you're not looking enough But but you're just talking about on one narrow issue that i think there's sideways on anyway I think the whole You know, we've spent an hour now We've spent all our time talking about an issue that is such a non issue Because again, you know, you say that i'm conflating things the thing i'm think you're conflating is our our modern medical establishment You're conflating that with health And you know, you want to talk about correlation and causation No Fucking way you'd have to make that case for me over and over again You know my personal experience with this a few years ago I went because I had a heart condition. You know something wrong with my heart So I went I went through the whole gamut. I went through the medical the the mainstream medical I went to the complimentary medical here in in san diego They're just full of shit And the the the only thing that we have now and people realize this is the only thing we have that improves it Is we have more sources of information? So it's not that everyone is full of shit It's just in order to find the people who are not full of shit You know, I had to go do my own research I had to go find the research in in italy from some doctors who were doing some very unconventional stuff And then I had to bring it to my fucking health care provider and they still shit all over it and said, you know You're ridiculous unless you take these black box medicines, you know, what are your wife? What's your wife going to say when they haul you off? And I had to tell those people to fuck off and I had to go do it myself My experience is not different. My experience is everybody's fucking experience If you go in there if you expect the health care system to provide you health You're sunk. You're sunk from the beginning. Primary needs. It's more slow hierarchy of needs When you don't have money, you don't have job. Maybe you don't have family. Maybe you are Sick because you probably are sick if you live in a city big city and are a cog in the system. Those people are Uh at the brink man and when that happens you can reach them with better values and I just used Medicare for all as an example that wasn't I didn't even intend to discuss it with you I just said the fact that they are now Realizing that everybody's lying to them that they are now fighting like a tea like the tea party It's a movement. They're all their own Masters. Yes, it's for this issue. It could be for any other issue For example, ubi or for example against hang on in india. They are demonstrating against the lockdowns I mean a general strike in paris. There are hundreds of thousands on the streets mainstream media is censoring this In london there's hundreds of thousands on the street and it's not just one thing they are fighting for But the main thing is the lockdown they're against the lockdown This means citizens are rising up some because they want health care some because they Want the freedom to move about some because they are fighting for their jobs They don't want the corporate takeover because everybody sees what's going on. That's my point It's an awakening not to ever look you want them to come all the way to the thrones where you and me are sitting And judging these plebs, right? Like two lords you want them to join our luxury philosophical Yes, they can do that eventually if they can get the basic rigging and controlling entirely Over overthrown and and and make no mistake about it. There's much more people Realizing what's going on in terms of pandemic and and virus and all that because they're gambling When they pull so dramatic Things that makes ordinary people uncertain and afraid. They're shaking their paradigm so much that they're they are receptive to Different to new things that they went I agree So so let me have a shot at this Let me have a shot at this because I agree with that last part I believe that this is an interesting discussion to have and that is are they over playing their hand Which is the expression on if that translates over in norwegian But like if you play poker and you over bet it somebody's going to call your bluff I get that people are suffering and I get that first of all I get that I live in a bubble Fucking. Hey. Yes. I live in a bubble bubble I've orchestrated my fucking bubble and I continue to orchestrate it every day I understand that people are suffering I understand that people have been intentionally pushed to the brink Because they're trying to play that fear game and they're trying to turn people Into these more manipulated, you know, because like you said at the very beginning This is one of the ways that you play them, you know You beat them down and then that's one of the ways to control them Is you just beat the fucking shit out of them and I get it. That's what they're doing now The the the big thing I would call you out on is you've fallen for one of the basic fucking tricks Which is to say you you're now empathizing with the beat down people and you're saying and they won't even give you health care You need to you need to rise up and get the health care. The health care is part of the fucking problem It's part of the fucking tyranny that they're trying to create for you to focus on that and for you to say that person Who has been beat down almost to the point where they don't know like this is what I think we're saying They beat people down But what they don't realize is that that person is now down so low That you don't know if they're going to accept that handout that you're coming along with to try and reach them up Like your phony baloney medical handout, which you know, maybe we'll we'll pull them over to your side Or if they're going to rise them say fuck you Fuck your handout. Fuck your medicine. Fuck all your shit. I'm taking my pitch. I'm pitchfork I'm taking my fucking torch and I'm marching to the castle. Don't hand me any more bullshit Fucking medicine or any of the rest of the shit that you think is going to make my life better I'll tell you what's going to make my life better is you not being around and when I say you I mean The fucking system that we've created Yeah, but are you saying that doctors have no worth personal physicians They're worth is significantly Significantly less than we've been led to believe Manifestations are whistleblowers now. Manifestations are trying to go against the big Health tyranny being implemented. You are aware of that right that we have many allies There's all sorts of individual things, you know, like, you know, how many people have died of of Diabetes during the pandemic because how many people died because that because they're not getting Normal health care because they're afraid to go into a hospital because they've convinced everyone that they're all going to get sick In the face of this kind of medical disinformation and medical tyranny How you would look to those people as some kind of ally in the battle. I I don't understand that They are the biggest fucking part of this thing Well, let's say you have diabetes then You need A way to get it Handled treated even if it's not the best treatment at least you need to survive. So that's a good example Let's say there's no pandemic and let's say You don't have to you know, we it's no such thing as a free health care We pay for our health care in here in Norway. Everyone is covered. That's the whole obama cure thing Everyone is covered here. That's the whole obama care thing. They hit up rich people like me a lot They hit up everybody. It's a shitty system. Nobody likes it. I know Americans don't have health care. Yeah, I know you were forced into having to buy into it And but then you also bought their explanation that everybody would be covered I know for sure people are everybody on covered. I know personally people are not covered You don't look at the Look at the numbers but talk with anyone. Uh, it's completely because you know, they have an incentive not to pay out I'll give you a case like like you just mentioned diabetes, right? Great great example You know, like one of the things uh, so like let's take out type 1 diabetes people You know juvenile diabetes people are born and it's horrible and they're gonna have to take insulin their whole life They're gonna have to manage it and stuff like that Again, the the cost of that at this point is not astronomical, right? I mean we can manage that at pretty cost effectively but take for example type 2 diabetes which Is basically just people who are not willing to control their diet Uh, you know, one of the things I do personally is I do kind of the fasting intermittent fasting You know, I just eat within this five hour five hour window a day The effects on that on type 2 diabetes are overwhelming overwhelming they so swamp any other quote unquote medical treatment that I'm like I don't give a fuck. I don't want to pay for someone to go in and be treated for for type 2 diabetes Because they can't control their diet. I don't have to pay for all that now I'll give you some money and you can spend it how you want But don't tell me that I have to have an infinite deep pocket because you like fucking donuts and fucking hamburgers Okay, my retort to that would be that now you're actually Without realizing it On the same side as those who want to prioritize aloe patty And not the other patties Because now you're going in and saying yes, there are two actually options that both will lead to freedom One is the one you are not in favor of which is Let every healthcare be free and let people choose which one I want to go to And they don't have to worry about payment, but you are now saying no no no we should Those who have lifestyles diseases those should be excluded. Well, then we could also say Yeah, well everybody who needs acupuncture should be excluded. No, it's either or it's either or either everything is on the table and people choose freely according to what they want and what they need Or Nothing is in the table if you just accept some diseases or some Or causations or some treatments then it's being corrupted But one option is that the other is what you're saying Let people choose it by let it be commercial. Let it still be you know a business to trade in your health but give people the resources to finance it either by having work and conditions to create It's always a business when people say this, you know, it's always a business somebody always has to get paid Pfizer's fucking getting paid I don't know why people who educate kind of universal healthcare think Pfizer isn't getting their fucking cut We haven't got the healthcare system corrupted in terms of finances Everything else is corrupted and we're still a part of the americanization and the modernization and the materialization And people get sick and they get vaccinated and they get 5g. So of course, we're going to have the same diseases I'm just saying when we have them people should have Means to actually they should have to worry about them like today I don't have to worry or I can't Quit my job because of the good healthcare plan Although I'm miserable in this job, and I'm becoming sick precisely because I hate this job And that's why I need this goddamn healthcare and that's why I have to stay in that job Nobody in Norway thinks like that man. How are we going to wrap this up? We're not wrapping up shit. By the way, you said People are over estimating. No, no people are underestimating the powers that be I actually think At least in our bubble and I'm talking about that bubble that we share Um, I think they're over estimating them. I don't think the powers that be are calculating for the clash back I think our oligarchs today are dumber Than the oligarchs back in in the day because back in the day they understood they have to pacify for folks either by Like they do here brave new world have a bubble play a nut or by brute force And America is in between and I I you know, I've said this before and I say it again. Lionel Cohen He's a god and prophet. He said it's coming to America first the cradle of the best and the worst It's there. They've got the range and the machinery for change. It's there. They got the spiritual first And I firmly believe he was right when he said that And we're seeing it in real time now and we can't wrap this up Without pointing to the fact that if you think you saw changes in 2020 man Brace for 2021 and some of those changes will be good. I'm insisting on that but yeah, the the shadow is going to be Whether still and the grip is going to be firmer for sure But the more they do that the more they are forcing our gut reaction, you know, you know, you know polarity, right? So Push down with one force And the backlash is going to be the same. So I'm just saying You know, you and me have a big responsibility Although we're not reaching as many people as we ought to or we want to We're reaching enough and you know, as well as me, you know, the six degrees of separation You know about the 12 the 10th monkey 100 monkey. I mean 100 monkey and you know about One man can change, etc. So and the butterfly here and the revolution there. So when you and me Unnavigate people look to us many look to us for advice and At least they want to get their Viewpoints tested. So that's why it's great that you and me can air disagreements like intelligent gentleman And it's also incumbent upon us be be cautious before we conclude and not get too wrapped up in Subtracts because we have to have the big picture to navigate through this because I do agree with you that the powers that be have clever ways to You know manipulate and hijack and distract and all that stuff So we have to try to keep our tongue straight in the mouth I think you make a really good point and it's one that, you know, as you were saying and I was like, shit He's right Because I think everything that we're seeing unfolding right now suggests that They don't have a very good handle on what the fuck they're doing I don't even say desperation. I think desperation is the wrong word. I think it more More what what you kind of were alluding to is kind of a fundamental incompetence in in terms of How to do this stuff and you you said something kind of fairly interesting and you know the oligarchs of our day aren't as good as the oligarchs The best there always is the lens, you know the monday morning quarterback and we're picking and choosing I don't know that they were ever that good before But I think there's a fundamental truth to what you're saying So let me put you on the spot here because we didn't do the 2020 show that I wanted But we are going to do the prediction aspect of it Hmm We are I don't know how close you're following this and I am so not it's funny right at the beginning You said you're not a 24 hour news cycle guy. I have worked so hard to not be I will just shut myself off from news and you know my Friends and family will say something and they'll look at me like are you a complete idiot? You didn't hear that that happened But this last year I've I've been forced to be more of in the news cycle And I'll tell you what I'm in the news cycle. I'm right now, which I think is No doubt going to be one of the fundamental key events of I don't even want to say 2020 or 2021 because it feels to me like a guy who's lived, you know a few years now as one of the most Fundamental profound moments of our time and that's that there's More and more evidence that trump is going to fight this then all the way And that he is not going that that he is going to probably you know He's going to force biden's hand by threatening Bring him on charges for treason bring his son on charges for treason bring his brother on charges for treason and as well as You know arresting a bunch of other people and under the insurrect insurrection act and Basically declaring something close to a martial law. I'm not saying that's going to happen I'm just saying anyone who isn't aware that that option is in play and being actively actively Considered at a very serious level and anyone who isn't considering the implications of that Because that's not something you can do halfway if he goes that way He will be forced to drain the swamp something. He's been People have said he's going to do but I I don't know what to make of trump because he certainly hasn't drained the swamp yet He's demonstrated as being nothing other than somebody who's in the swamp But if he crosses If he crosses the rubicon here He will be forced to play that out because He will be taking that step. Do you think that's going to happen? And what do you think will be the the impact either way? If he does or if he doesn't because if he doesn't what a lot of people are saying is Then america is probably Going to be very different just in terms of the people that are taking control Clearly they have you know rig the election that Back to our statistics thing, you know the best proof of that is just statistics in the same way We say other elections are phony, you know You can't have a hundred and five percent of the precinct in wisconsin voting a hundred and five percent That does it, you know, you can't have that And have a real legitimate election. So given that we didn't have a legitimate election Who cares we we have a lot of illegitimate elections But my point is if this illegitimate election is allowed to stand I think what a lot of people are concerned about is how would you ever, you know How would you ever write the ship after this when you've kind of given the keys to the people? I'm apolitical here people. I'm not saying one way or another one is good. One is bad I just think I'd like you to speak to this moment in history that we're at and which way you think this thing is going to fall Yeah, I'm going to be a bit more neutral here. I think because Like in the financial thing I have taken a side where which I think is the best Working but here I haven't but I can still offer a fair perspective in terms of analysis. Let me start with using rush against against trump as a good example of why I'm saying the Current elite is dumber than the previous because the previous had to fight its way Against uprising from the people. They have to pass. They had to deal with world wars. They had to deal with control mechanism tools like Hitler running Havoc and and and it's like a dog. They were having an alish who freed himself from starting biting them They had to deal with the depression. They had to deal with I don't know saying this is they they went a part of this They precisely where they were playing they even managed to face it from our Fast hard currency back system to our fiat systems and they've implemented mmt for all its worth now It's because today's elite are inbred More than the one in the past, you know, even Morgan. I think was fighting himself up from from nothing So they are inbred. Yeah, we still have Heritage elites, but there's a lot of inbred Precisely because we have a lot of inherited elites It's not people fighting themselves to the top anymore Even bill gates who people think first of he didn't invent shit. He hijacked it. He's a thief second gates He's from uh, or not true. I would I lived through that whole thing We can I do a whole show on that the gates is an old. It was a very good computer programmer He's born into an elite family. He wasn't like so even he even those new rich people We look at aren't really new rich. Yes. He became a trillionaire by his own, but he was Always a part of the elite and so and also they are Not just inbred, but they are in america especially but more and more everywhere The elites have been unaccountable for a long time. They went before The only way an elite is falling now if the if the other elites are turning against them Which is what they're trying to do with trump. So You are failing upwards And this has happened for a long time. I think at least since jfk, but after 2001 it was systematized You saw that with obama in eight or eight They rewarded the people who did the crimes banksters Corporations and look at the you're saying how is trump still is surrounded with the swamp Look at the steve minutian one of the perpetrators of the eight recession You know who was supposed to go after him as public prosecutor Kamala fucking harris Like so many others since she has on her plate, which is why nobody was voting for her in the primary So she was elected because she was uh accepted by wall street And the perfect distraction the obama card Doubling down not just the collard but this time also female well She was bribed by minutian to not prosecute and now minutian is the god damn finance minister So Trump he ran on real populism I do I believe parts of it was his own But he was more concerned about winning and he believed in the populist As he had in 16 like steve bannon And so he understood that this is a way to win or at least It aligned with his interests and I do believe some populism. He he really believes like He is actually nationalistic. He's always been Yeah, but steve bannon was a coke addict and and uh sex nut But I don't get your prediction on this. I'm going to be really really disappointed because all that stuff is ancient history I want to know your prediction I'll let you tell your look to the northern lights and tell me london calling So here's the thing It's it's relevant because he lost all those people mike flame steve bannon Who actually helped him win He did In 16 he and bernie ran on populism's thing. They actually trump said universal health care. No problem. He said we're gonna Tariff and all that tsa and all that stuff Now in 20 both him and bernie were running on identity politics because they have horrible advisors So trump is left alone in the swamp. So It's not a matter of You know if you're right if trump is going to write this off it's going to be by actually doing our military Takeover and I don't believe he has enough support in the military The courts is not going to help him We saw that they're throwing out the case even though it's his people in the court. They don't have the balls And yes, it's rigged. I haven't had a program about rigging in 16 already And I said on twitter when people were fighting about about this who's going to be the next president biden or trump I mean after the election So not who's going to win with votes, but who's going to actually end up and I said, you know Who's going to end up the winner the one with the best rigging team? And so I think trump's team is more incompetent. I think his Enemies are much more organized because they they have the cia and everyone on board And I think I think trump's Uh allies are a minority within the elite But they are there and trump also has a fair portion of margar people We can't do anything wrong, but trump has an option now to for example Let us launch and Snowden go free and he may do it just as a finger up to obama I don't believe he would do it for ideological reasons, but he would do it because he knows the neolibs are They're gonna be angry about that. So it's I think it's all up in the air Trump has always been like a gut guy who's a good tactician. He follows his gut in now So we he could go anywhere. He could go to like Running again in 2024 and accepting the defeat now and making sure Havoc like freeing Assange pardoning Assange, etc Or he could go the way that you're talking about, but it's gonna be remember I think it's also not as brave as some would have him. He's thinking of his own ass The backlash if he doesn't get away with it is very big And it's too late now to start a hot war So I don't think he has enough support in the system to do it if he has he will do it Because he knows that They are coming after him after the election So I do not believe I never believed those who said that he will prosecute clinton obama Biden They've said it Q anon have said it for years now It never happens and they're always doubling down with the next predicament And and it's like in cults when it fails instead of saying that's it. I've had enough They they fall for the explanations and the rationalizations and I haven't seen anything of this behind the scenes war yet In the deep state. I don't think it's a Fight behind the scenes. I think it's like 90 percent Are still intact of the deep state and I think Some deep staters and some people in the white system Has supported trump for ideological reasons Not populist reasons tends to be more Nationalistic and even fascist weed reasons. I'm not saying trump is a fascist because he isn't if he was He would have taken this covet and seized upon it He would have taken a marshal or long ago like many countries did He would have done a shock doctrine to implement stuff instead He was fighting of course because he has he's in the hotel business and he's being ruined by this But he was fighting the lockdown and he was wanting Like every man for himself, which is the opposite of fascism. So he's not a fascist, but he does have Like he has fascist enemies and he has fascist allies allies actually And so that's why I can't do a hard prediction But I can say what I don't believe I do not believe he will go after the big power players because he knows The the it's they're too powerful And I'm not saying Biden is powerful Biden is just a puppet like all the other Politicians actors basically the real powers are in the hands of the banks And the multinational corporations because we live in a corpocracy folks We don't live in socialism. We don't live in capitalism. We live in corpocracy, which In cultural and identity politics tends to be more left or right here and there but that bottom line, that's it and Trump alone cannot fight that and My okay, I tend to think Biden will take over and The swamp will be reinforced. Yes, they're still strong But it's going to be same boss As before it's just going to be a new face That's what one of the reasons I hate trump because he doesn't put a pleasant face on the machine Uh biden and obama certainly does but in in terms of actions I think I think It will be a term for the worse, but I think it will be balanced by people uprising on different areas when they uprise against Lockdown that they do all over the world now national strike National strike is one of general strike is one of the left to last tools we have left I was trying to say earlier, but when that happens I think We can contain some of the worst shit coming down on us from the politicians and If trump actually goes the way you're saying It's going to be ugly because he won't make a populism regime It will be like some kind of Bolsonaro brasil thing or victor urban in hungary, which is More or less not national one-state nationalist regime and then you can discuss is going to be worse or better than what you got now I can't see how things can be much worse Maybe it will actually be better, but that's what you're going to get But I hope what will happen is that people rise up Which they will do on different areas and you you don't smack it down because the left and the right You know when the left left goes out on the street Black lives matter stuff like that against the police that the right says oh, no, no fuck it. This is We're against this when the right goes out in the streets like against the masks or whatever Then the leftists are coming in and pooping that and as long as people don't just realize look We're all pissed. We have to get on the streets with orange Wests until we take over the democratic institutions until that happens Big structural changes won't happen. So for 2021, I think the most changes would happen in the grassroots I think you will see lots more demonstrations fights strikes Yeah, different kind of populism uprisings And more much more I think you and me will see more listeners coming to us The independent will grow the independent independent will grow or the alt alt as you call it But the huge structural changes well, they can happen overnight, but I can't see ending 2021 with let's say a biden regime and still having a corvid problem and Maybe even being closer to a mass mass vaccination, but more people will ever will have Awakened man and that will be so encouraging for us all Because it's not because it's not about what system do we live in? It's about how many people accept the system we live in and when we have the majority Changes is going to happen, you know, I wish I could we could He could struck that which we would have to that we just don't have the time to do it But I think your analysis of uh, of trump very very nuanced and very very insightful in A lot of ways. All right, my friend our guest our guest again has been the fantastic Al Borealis Check out for him Borealis. I'll obviously have links in the show And don't think this is going to be the end of this conversation There's too much great stuff that we didn't have a chance to talk about So we'll have to do it again Real soon and see how this 2021 prediction of his uh, kind of plays out. So Al my friend, thank you very much. Merry Christmas. Happy new year You're the best buddy. I really appreciate you and great winter sources to you Thanks again to al for joining me today on skeptico the one question I guess it up is the one that we spent so much time on and Not that I think either one of us anticipated it But it kind of led to an interesting discussion on a number of levels and that is What do you make of universal health care? Do you see that more as a Fundamental right that might give us a little Port in the storm in these very uncertain and fear generating times Or do you see it as just another and maybe even a primary tool of control by a increasingly engineered society At least that's how I'd tee up that question. I'd be super interested to hear your answers to it Let me know what you think So I did after we wrapped up this interview. I did talk to al about Doing this end of year show which we originally planned on doing So we're now trying to arrange that I think absolutely terrific to do with al since I have So much respect for not only his show, but his very deep Thinking on a lot of different topics. So hopefully we can put that together I also have a bunch of other shows coming up. So please Stay with me for all of that Until next time take care and bye for now