 The huddle with corporate cars delivering affordable luxury European vehicles nationwide. It is now 2326 and Cameron Slater from Whale Oil is with us. Hello Cameron. Hey Larry. And we've got David Farrell from KiwiBlog. Hello David. Hello. David, you first on this. Mr Canliffe, he resigns over the weekend but he wants the job again and he might get it. The unions and membership could install Mr Canliffe again as leader. What's your take on all of this? Well I can't do better than quote the text they got on Sunday afternoon from a very senior knack who said up until today I never believed in Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. And I think that sums it up that they thought that the guy who got them to their lowest ever result in a hundred years has the support they think of five or six MPs in the caucus army is still going to put the party through a four month battle is almost unbelievable. Really Cameron, he believes that he is able to win the primary backed by the membership and the unions. Well he says he's been consulting widely but I'm given to understand that what that means is he runs around the house looking at every mirror and basically saying mirror a mirror on the wall who is the fairest of them all and that's about the level of support that he has out there. I've heard from a large number of members who actually want the guy's throat cut but they're far too polite to actually say that. I mean David's right it's 92 years it's the worst result in 92 years and this fool thinks that he can lead the party again and have the unions and the members foist him back upon the caucus. If I was the caucus and I'm not sure they've got the courage to do this I would be sitting there saying well if you give us Cunliffe back we're just going to do it use our 60% plus one and nail him again and then have another leadership ballot and it's just going to go on and on like that but the reality is here is Labour is spitting themselves apart very quickly. See the thing David on a human level if you were in that position your MPs don't back you quite clearly why would you bother most people wouldn't even bother trying to run for the leadership again would they I mean most wouldn't. No they almost would say the relief that it gives them an excuse to go gracefully you have to have a total supreme belief I think in your ability or to have to hate your colleagues to say I don't care that I've only got a fifth of my caucus behind me I now force myself on it's almost masochistic because he may want because when you look at number numbers on those one EPU delegate it's worth 29 members when it comes to the vote most of the other unions too their delegates and there's only a few dozen of them have huge influence can't it's very hard to know what the members will do they tell you what you do go on to the left wing blocks where some of the Labour MPs are there's no one saying it's time they're all one yet I can't that sorry I think Grant was one of it but I don't think it's a done deal it's gonna we'll tell you what it's gonna look like it's gonna look like a rerun of 300 it'll be it'll be like sparta all over again with all of the tectonic color blood and guts spraying everywhere because that's the reality of the situation that we're seeing here so we're destined for further acrimony aren't we should mr. cunliffe win again I mean how for you talk about 60 plus one cam but is there a chance that the MPs will rebel they'll walk there's mutiny what do you see well I think you could be looking at a mutiny it's just a question of who's going to be put into the lifeboat and cast a drift that there is no tolerance in caucus for the shenanigans of David cunliffe and he really is a losing support I mean when Ian Lee Scalloway who who's not the most well-liked MP anyway I mean there's plenty in the caucus who want him rinse just as badly as cunliffe when he's out there hedging his bets then you know that that David cunliffe's in dreadful trouble he's basically left with Sue Maroney and her only achievement in all of her time in Parliament is to increase the majority of the people she stands against I'll disagree slightly with can hear that that's kind of ones I don't think caucus will rebel and go up against the partners would be a crisis but what you have to see happen is that many of them will have to resign for they've made it very clear they have no confidence they can't work and we we're not talking big caucus in the first place you could be talking to me between a quarter and a third of the MPs the more senior experienced ones would either do bar elections or announce they'll be retiring at the election and some argue it's a left box do that's good in the long term for labor but in terms of winning in 2017 if you're losing all your most experienced MPs are very very difficult so it's David clarify you mean a bunch of MPs could resign and create by elections some absolutely some of them just could not handle another three years in that caucus so some like the MPs like David Parker would probably quit. Clayton Gosgrove actually needs to have a stroke cut for the poor way that he's been carrying on in the last week but whether or not there's anyone with the stones to do that leaves me wondering whether that could happen or not but but basically what David's saying here is that Labor's got a two-term strategy to try and win back the Treasury benches and even then it's looking very desperate because they have to have a massive caucus renewal either they have to get rid of the ABCs through selections through retirements and the like and then go into an election with a bunch of newbies and then have policies that are going to still appeal to middle New Zealand and that's the real issue it isn't the leadership it isn't the caucus it's they've just got done policies that nobody wants and and that's the real issue until you know bizarrely you had Robert Reed from the First Union saying that Labor needed to go further left did he not know how mass works 65% of voters voted for centre or centre-right parties in the election and he's saying go further left and so are the activists and Labor it's it's toned deafness from the leader down. We'll come back in just a moment Cameron Slater and David Farah on the huddle it's now 17 to 6 asking questions and waiting for answers it's Larry Williams Drive with ANZ providing business banking expertise near you. We're back with the huddle Cameron Slater and David Farah let's carry on with the Labor Party leadership David so we've got Mr Robertson contesting do you believe Mr Shearer will contest? I think it's unlikely because there seems to be a desire for a clean contest Shearer can be a distraction he doesn't like either faction because some of the factions undermined him and the Robertson faction rolled him but he simply can't win so I think he will not enter the race but he will be a significant player in terms of what he comes out and say. What do you think Cam two-way contest? Well I think there needs to be a third candidate in there someone who can actually unite the factions although I think that's an impossible mission there's too many people in there who have either been the leader or want to be the leader for there to be any sort of harmony inside the Labor caucus but look at Grant Robertson's behavior over the past week this is a guy who delivered up third place for Labor in his own electorate in the party vote and he's claiming some sort of mandate to be the lead to be the leader but bizarrely he ran around trying to orchestrate a coronation of himself as leader sort of a backdoor application to be the leader to stare down cunliffe and it was only cunliffe resigning that forced that option to disappear but that's what Grant Robertson was planning the caucus people that I've been talking to in Labor tell me that Grant is incredibly nervous of losing another ballot he didn't want to have a competition and he tried to orchestrate that as I said via the backdoor at the ascension to the leadership of the labor okay and David how do you view that I mean it's nothing unusual politicians plotting orchestrating you know a coup or whatever what do you see in it well it's quite high stakes for Grant having if he stands or she is and loses for a second time against cunliffe he's not going to end up being leader of the Labor party ever and in fact you have to say look if David kind of pulls off the what I might call impossible and gets re-elected leader despite leading them to their worst ever lost 24% 80% of the caucus stands firm he's a leader for life almost if he could win the membership ballot under these conditions who'll never lose it so the fingers crossed the fingers crossed well well I think we get Scott Jolti's dearly I think we'll be hoping Mr. Cunliffe wins all right Cam now just briefly act and you know the future seal their deals so there's nothing that stands out here mr. Dunn gets a ministerial job outside cabinet mr. Seymour undersecretary Minister of Education and regulatory things and I mean there's nothing shocking or in all of this no I don't think so I'm pleased to see that John Key didn't give Seymour anything higher than what he's got I don't think he deserves anything of the sort he's a newbie he should be very grateful that he has got that little lifeline that he has but but that's about the way of it and Peter Dunn has got what he always gets but reality is that this is perhaps his last term in in parliament his party actually doesn't really exist in him anymore and that's the best he's ever going to get as well what's your view David I'm a bit surprised about but Pat's not on reflection is there's no solid policy concessions either the two agreements there's a number of various they say look we'll talk and work together on but in the past you've normally had quite specific policy concessions I think the differences of course national can govern alone it could actually say we've got six to one MPs we don't need anyone else it's offering competence and supply agreements to three other parties not because they need them but because they think it makes them a more stable government but it means that they're the ones who really get to set the terms and that's why we've not seen any policy concessions just really one minus ministerial role and one undersecretarial role okay thank you David Farrah and Cameron Slater news talk said B we have some sport in just a moment it's now