 Welcome back. I'm Jay Fidel. This is catching up with Kakaako, especially Kakaako Makai. And the reason is there's a bill in the legislature that would effectively repeal the prohibition on residential development in Kakaako Makai. And we want to talk to people who know something about the planning aspects of Kakaako Makai. And one of those people is Wayne Takamene. He's here with us today. And he's the chair of the Kakaako Makai Community Planning Advisory Council. Welcome to the show, Wayne. Hi, Jay. Thanks for having me on. Absolutely. So what is it to be the chair of the Kakaako Makai Community Planning Advisory Council? Talking about, you know, the history, your history and the history of the council. So tell us about that. Well, my history in Kakaako Makai began as a student at Roosevelt High School, and I started body surfing at Point Panics. Then later on, in 2005, we started talking about the AMB RFP to build 200-foot condominiums, just a few blocks away from Point Panic. So we started to get involved, and we created what's called the People's Prefer Plan, which was a rendering of a proposal that instead of condominiums, we would try to create a cultural experience in Kakaako Makai. And some of these included like a exhibition for water sports, Hall of Fame, and other things like farmer's markets. So we had a fish and farmer's market concept. And it began to get more popular as people started to realize that we would be losing a great recreational asset in Kakaako Makai, because it's really the only other sport that's undeveloped in Honolulu along the shoreline. And when we did our surveys as the Kakaako Makai Community Planning Advisory Council, we found that the number one thing people wanted to see was more park space in the Makai or shoreline area, an expansion of the shoreline promenade. And this promenade is part of a concept that was introduced by Governor Wahe'i called the Lay of Green, which would be a lay of parks setbacks from Aloha Tower to Waikiki. And this is where the whole thing started to come together. This was a very powerful concept, the Lay of Green. So later on in 2005, we defeated the proposal for condominiums and the legislature created laws with the prohibition of residential development by the HCDA in Kakaako Makai. They also created a law that prohibited sales of state land in Kakaako. So even if you were to develop a condominium, you wouldn't be able to sell the condominiums because it's prohibited by state law. So this already, what they were planning to do in the lingo administration was to develop these 200-foot condominiums and they had like a series of three of them that were right next to the Kuala Basin Harbor and then sell the land to A&B. So A&B, I think for $20 million, I think that was the number you were talking about, $20 million would get all the profits from selling condominiums. And you know, it's crazy. The real estate market in Kakaako, on the Makai side of Alamata Boulevard, I think this was like 10 years ago, they were saying penthouses for $36 million. So I don't know if that will fit into the definition of affordable housing that Ohio is talking about. Well, so during that 2005 session, they also made a resolution that required the HCDA, Boy Community Planning Development Authority, which has a jurisdiction in Kakaako Makai to create a working group that will help to implement the development and planning and implementation of a master plan for Kakaako Makai. So that became the Kakaako Makai Community Planning Advisory Council. And so by the legislature, we were allowed to get $500,000 to do this planning thing. And later on, it was revised to $750,000. And we completed the master plan in October of 2010. Oh. And what did it provide this master plan? Well, this master plan was created by several groups that were part of it. And we broke it down into focus groups. But excuse me, I'd like to read the vision for Kakaako Makai that was adopted by the HCDA. Kakaako Makai is a community's gathering place, a safe place that welcomes all people from Keiki to Kapuna with enriching cultural, recreational, and educational public uses. A special place that continues the shoreline lay of green with scenic beauty connects paramatic vistas, Malka and Makai, and encourages ecological integrity of land, air, and sea. Kakaako Makai honors, celebrates, and preserves the historic sense of place, Hawaiian cultural values, and our unique island lifestyle for present families and future generations. So this is what we proposed. And this is what the HCDA approved. I'm sorry to say, but the Hawaiian, the OHA concept of making residential in Kakaako Makai that will likely be sold to the highest bidder is really something that is contrary to our vision for Kakaako Makai. But the plan was never implemented? Well, in 2011, we started meeting with OHA. The venture was Colette Machado, a beautiful woman. And, you know, she said she was impressed with our Kakaako Makai master plan. And then it was then a concept where OHA would would be taking Kakaako Makai as compensation for their seeded land, seeded land, I guess they weren't paid. They just didn't feel that they were compensated well for that. So we thought, okay, fine, if they want to develop our plan, then it would be okay. But later on in the session, OHA introduced the bill, or it was introduced by the supporters of OHA, but the bill was actually to repeal our law that prohibits development of residential development in Kakaako Makai or planning by the HCDA. And through to the different organizations, and there are over 55 organizations that participated in the creation of the master plan for Kakaako Makai, including OHA. OHA had two representatives that were part of what we call the steering committee. They were ex-official on the steering committee, and they were active in the creation of the master plan. But that repeal of the residential laws in Kakaako Makai was defeated, and it had repeatedly been brought up by OHA. OHA's law to take the land in Kakaako Makai, I think it was supposed to be a $200 million settlement was approved, and they have, since that land was, I think it was designated as public trust lands, so they have acquired that. Several times they tried to repeal the law of residential in Kakaako Makai, and I believe in 2012, the Attorney General said that that proposal for OHA to repeal the law is actually unconstitutional, because it would be favoring a entity over the general public. So did OHA ever explain to you, Collette Machado, or anybody else over there, why they had changed their position from supporting your master plan to doing the reverse? Well, we had a, there was an area Senator for Kakaako at the time was Senator, former Senator Brickwood Galutaira. He is also right now one of the just newly elected at large OHA board members of trustee. He appeared to be favored the residential development in Kakaako Makai and repealing the law. It's really unfortunate, but then Governor in 2010 was Neil Abercrombie, and in 2005 when he was, I believe he was a House of Representatives for Congress, he actually came down and had an interview and he spoke against the A&B development, so at that time we believed that he would be, would support a view of keeping Kakaako Makai free and clear of residential, and then later on he changed his mind while he was governor and said, oh, they should give the Hawaiians the land and let them build residential. So unfortunately that didn't go well with the public and he became a one-term governor. Brickwood also supported residential in Kakaako Makai and he was very unpopular with his reelection hopes and he was soundly defeated by the current Senator Sharon Moriwaki. So, you know, it's very unpopular when we did our surveys as CPAC, it came out near the bottom. You know, nobody really wanted residential and maybe it's because the people who were participating just wanted to see something else besides residential. A lot of people feel that it would actually become a gated community, like something like how you know, Koalana is with the hotels there, you can't, I think there's two public parking spaces, you know, to go to the beaches there, we feel that it would become a gated community and that, of course, the land wouldn't be state land because if you're going to build a 400 foot condominium, developers are going to want some interest in that development and they want compensation which is going to probably be that they're going to own part of that condominium and sell the units for financial gains. So, you just did a panel in our previous. Other people who said the same thing. So, if you were to appear in front of some committee in the legislature today where they are considering this current version of the bill that would allow residential development in Kakaka Makai, what would you say to them? Probably the same thing I said in 2011, I think in 2012, last year, I think there were like about four or five times that Ohio has tried to repeal this law and failed. So, similar to what I've said before because there's nothing new. I mean, I don't think we see anything new with the land. I think a lot of people are just, you know, tired of Ohio coming back and then we have to go and seem to drill. Many times before, I'm sorry, I didn't count how many times they tried to repeal the law but it seemed like a whole bunch, you know, and so we're all getting a little tired of this but we're all pretty steadfast in our beliefs that residential in Kakaka Makai is something that shouldn't be there. Yeah, one other thing I wanted to ask you is just suppose, hypothetically, just suppose that they're able to get it through and they are able to build a 40-story high-rise condo there. What would happen in your view of it and your, you know, your master plan community development view of it? What would happen to a Kakako Makai? What would it be like? Well, Jay, you have to remember that this land was a dump. They had incinerators there. They were burning all the opala and incinerators created ash. These ash is, there's documented in several phase two environmental studies that it's bad stuff. It's lead arsenic, PBCs, have reports that they should take cattle off the boats, burn them through these pools of DDT to kill all of the parasite and all of that stuff is still on the ground. And so if they're going to build a huge building, they're going to have to dig up underneath, put in infrastructure and when they're doing that, they're going to be hitting toxic waste. And another thing that comes up is that in Kakako Makai, when they were able to throw up these big buildings, it changes the flow of water, underground water, and then you'll see sinkholes popping up. So what happens if there's a sinkhole in Kakako Makai with all of these toxic waste? You have high levels of lead, you have arsenic, PBCs, benzene, things all, not very good stuff and you can't really go and dig that stuff up. If you disturb any of that stuff, then the equipment you're using to disturb it becomes contaminated and you have to decontaminate that. If you want to move some of that toxic waste out, then you have to get a permit to dump it somewhere and I don't think you'll find any place on Wahoo that's going to take that toxic waste as a disposal site. You're having a hard time just finding regular waste to dispose. So the land really does not work well with high buildings. It's just something that there's going to be a problem with and then for us to use the ocean for recreation, it's terrible. What are you going to do? You're going to put this stuff up and then you're going to end up saying to the public, can I go in the water? Can I use the ocean recreational places because there's toxic waste? There's also underground systems under Takakumakai. It was basically reef before. So what happens when you disturb all of this toxic material? It's going to come dislodged from the sediment and then it could flow out into the ocean and affect the reef and also surface out there in the water. You've identified a bunch of problems. I mean the toxic soil, the fact that it would be disturbed, it would leach off all around it. The water problems in general, the access problems, I guess that's a community issue, maybe a cultural issue for native Hawaiians. So this all sounds like it needs to be thoroughly investigated by WAVE and EIS. Has your group taken a position on whether EIS would be appropriate before the legislature acts? You know, I think the legislature should just shut it down. I mean this is something that President Densho and Takakumakai have come up previously so many times and this law was enacted in 2005. It's nearly 20 years. I think you should say it's not going to happen. But we would look at it and say, well, it's a free country and we'll put up our our point of view and which is also the point of view of the attorney generals saying that this allowing OHA to be given an exemption to this law is not something that is constitutional. So there are several fronts on this. And I think one of OHA, they want to develop, I guess, affordable housing. And I believe the legislature would swap land with them someplace else. So the issue of affordable housing is something that I don't believe is something that really holds water. That they want to build affordable housing in an area where penthouses are going for 35, 40 plus million dollars. It's not affordable for your Hawaiian people. I mean, there's opportunities other places that will have more land available for OHA to build their affordable housing for their culture. But I don't think Takakumakai is that place. And sounds like you're going to continue the effort to stop this, the repeal of this bill, to stop residential development. Are you and other members of your council, you're going to go down and testify on it this year? Yes. And it's not really stopping them, but we support the law, existing law, the law that has been created in 2005 and continues to this day. So we support that. I mean, I know a lot of people who are Hawaiians and they have their beliefs in what they should do in Takakumakai. A lot of them have come up to me and said, Wayne, if this comes up, let us know. We don't want residential here. So there's the people that are Hawaiians that don't really believe that this is the correct thing for OHA to pursue. Wayne Takamini, the chair of the Kakaako Makai community planning advisory council, which has been following the action in Kakaako Makai for many, many years. And we really appreciate you coming on and talking with us, Wayne. Thank you so much. Thank you, Jay, for this opportunity to educate people on what the issues are. I think you've done a great job doing that, Wayne. Aloha. Aloha.