 Okay, hey friends, this is Dan Burke. You're watching behind the scenes Divine intimacy radio before we jump into the show today. I want to tell you about a few things going on that are time-bound Holy Eucharist whole a webinar on the Holy Eucharist in reverence and That's going to be with me and Father Altier. It's going to be August the 24th. Obviously, we're in a difficult time where I Would you say traditional Liturgical practice and understanding and all of that is a bit under attack so but We get to as faithful Catholics talk about what we want to talk about and promote what we want to promote and We can always talk about and promote things consistent with the Magisterium and so we're going to do that So join me with Father Altier if you don't know who he is look him up He's a been a warrior for the truth for a long time And he's a great priest. He celebrates both the ordinary form and the extraordinary form of the mass So I think you'll enjoy that spiritual direction.com forward slash events we have a we have an into the deep retreat that I'm giving in Waconia Minnesota, I think it's called pronounce Waconia That's September the 26th and I think there'll be a night of reflection up there somewhere But spiritual direction comm events. Let's see the last but not least We have a couple courses coming up. Do you know producer lady? Oh I see it SOSF so we have two school of spiritual formation courses coming up They're that are awesome school of spiritual formation means they're designed for busy people who Want deep formation, but don't have a lot of time. So there's not, you know, you don't have to do big papers and You know extensive homework, but it will help you in your spiritual life living Living at the hand of the Lord life and thought of St. Edis Stein or Teresa Benedict of the cross It's taught by a little bit Elizabeth Mitchell and you won't be sorry. This is an amazing course. This professor Really lights up a room because she loves the Lord and her faith and loves to talk about The most important truths and people in the faith So that starts September 17th avala-institute.org avala-institute.org And then the last one is a good one for our time spiritual warfare in modern times. She is Lewis And the screw tape letters and this is taught by a good friend of mine for decades, actually, I think I met him in 1989 And he is what I would call a c.s. Lewis scholar And he wrote the annotated See a screw tape letters, which is he helps folks under it was published by harper collins. I think or harper one And where he helps modern readers understand Lewis's Illusions and illustrations and things that may be a little bit dated But paul is also a very engaging professor. He'll be teaching that on september 14th So check these courses out if you want to grow deeper in your faith in times that are difficult avala-institute.org. Let's go ahead and jump into the show Okay And you mark it's set to go This is dan Burke. Welcome to divine intimacy radio your radio haven of rest and then stephanie Usually says your hermitage of the heart and then I say Your monastery of the mind where we lift our hearts and minds to heaven To draw on the wisdom of the saints the magisterium of the church to help us To navigate this difficult Life of faith in the battle we face now is quite quite strong stephanie's not with me today because Our studio only has two cameras and two mics now we have god be praised. We have a new studio coming We're building right now in montgomery, alabama that has four mics and and multiple cameras So she wasn't able to be with me today, but i'm excited about our guest today He's a good friend. His name is terry rumore. He's a lifelong resident of birmingham alabama He's been married to his high school sweetheart charlotte one of the nicest women i've ever met in my life For 26 years and together they've raised four beautiful children, which i can attest to And now they're enjoying their first granddaughter. I i'm on my we're on our first granddaughter as well This is your first uh first grandchild both both when was she born? She was born uh in november uh november the 10th boy. You're gonna i hope i get that right Just the month you're you're a man. You're a man. I know boy. You might get me in trouble there The year in the month, you know something close sometime a year ago But um, yeah, don't ask me when ava grace was born, but I know it was july But she's a couple years old. So uh terry is a Third generation business owner along with his brother They own southern armature works and southern radiator cooling where the rumore family has been serving The birmingham community for about 700 90. I mean 90 years 90 years Terry and his family are members of the cathedral of st paul where where he established The birmingham fraternus chapter, which is what we're talking about today And served as its commander for five years He's now on the national executive team where he serves as a new chapter development officer where his primary role Is helping folks come to discover the beauty and work of fraternus. Absolutely. So welcome to the show Well, I'm thrilled to be here. This is a exciting times for uh for myself and also for fraternus I'm I'm uh, I the reason I wanted to have you in the show terry is is I think Divine intimacy radio everything we do at the avila foundation is about Reproposing the mystical patrimony of the church what it means to be a have an authentic relationship with god Why because that's that's why we exist, right? But also to strengthen the faithful in the midst of A very difficult time in the church The reason I wanted to have you on is I when I learned about fraternus I it was it's something I wish I I had known about or was available to me you know for my kids and I really believe in The power of what you're doing to equip men brotherhood of men Absolutely to help them help fathers and young men know what it means to live a heroic life of virtue. So maybe tell us What is the purpose of fraternus? And then I want to shift to kind of your personal experience with it. Absolutely. So I mean as we know it's you know Life is all about our relationship to the heavenly father. Yeah, and you know, when we say heavenly father so often The word father draws us to a father wound Then we may have I mean we we know that masculinity has been attacked For generations This is the way the devil has gotten to the church and to culture is to break down the family To break down the role of the father and the family and so Often our direct relationship to god our heavenly father ties back to The relationship that we have with our father and the memory of that and the hurt of that And so when there's a memory of wound there it directly impacts our relationship with god our heavenly father So fraternus is a way that we can really address that wound in brotherhood where we come together as men and it we open up ourselves To discovering rediscovering virtue what it means to be an authentic catholic male Uh to to bring virtue into the life Both in our personal lives in our marriages in our business relationships in our relationships with our sons and daughters our children It is just an incredible opportunity to come together as brothers and to Rediscover what god wants to offer us in our masculinity You know, that's a big issue in our time, isn't it because the you said authentic Catholic male in our time, of course And I don't I haven't had a tv for too long for a long time So I don't know what goes on out there But when I got rid of mine, which was more than a decade ago all the male figures On the shows were idiots or bad guys the cartoons, you know, they're buffoons and all of that And it was already even back then deteriorating and becoming an anti Masculine really society. What does it mean to you? What do you mean by authentic catholic male? Well, so so god has given us a right to rule First ourselves, right where we have to take control of sort of these The the the vices that well up in our hearts And then we have the a right to rule our homes our our dominion at home Which is really just a Small microcosm of the church. Well, the world has told men for generations Like you said that we are Incapable of that. We're incompetent To be a male of the world is often to be Misogynistic to be over sexualized to be over athletic to pursue the wrong things Fraternice seeks to right that wrong. It seeks to reintroduce virtue Which the three letters of virtue vir mean man To have virtue back in the life of men to then Allow us as men to regain control of our domestic homes to regain control of our vices Of the things that plague us in our life because we all deal with sin We all are dealing with that and we need brotherhood through fraternice To help us deal with that sin. So what fraternice does is give us a formal way of doing that in something that You know, it's very powerful. It's it's a weekly gathering called frat night where we get together And it's just a very simple thing men like simple but we like simple thing And you wouldn't know it, but I mean in all reality Frat night is nothing more than eating playing praying and learning together. It's just very simple as I said earlier And fraternice gives us that opportunity to gather to get together to Learn about the life of virtue to relearn from each other to hold each other accountable Accountability is huge. I mean It's proven that men Cannot do things on their own without Accountability the military gets this very well. They understand brotherhood in the military Sports teams gets it very well When you are sacrificing for yourself, it's very easy to make excuses It's very easy to give up when you're isolated when you're isolated And that's what the world wants to do right if the world wants to isolate men In fraternice We gather together in brotherhood holding each other accountable And when you know, you are accountable to another man You want to succeed for that man because you're you're showing up every week is it weak every weekly thing You're showing up every week. Uh, and so How do in terms of accountability, how does that play out? Well, so, you know First of all, this is often where the rubber meets the road. It's a weekly gathering a lot of men will say, oh my gosh I can't do this thing weekly But think about all the things in your life that we need to perfect whether it's the life of prayer Or just taking it even more basic whether it's sports or some type of musical instrument You have to practice it And we know we've accepted the idea of practicing every single day for something that we want to perfect Business in particular or schooling or whatever, right? People spend thousands of dollars and hours Absolutely doing all of that and then when they're when they're asked, you know, it's a little bit silly to recoil at An hour or so a week for the sake of your Soul your family for your soul for virtue for souls for the sake of your family I mean absolutely for your marriage. Can I can I want to affirm you in one thing? It's really important You said you're talking about the need for people for guys to be together to grow spiritually St. Catherine of Sienna the god the father revealed to her And i'm paraphrasing that we are designed in such a way that we are insufficient in and of ourselves to get to heaven Yeah, we're designed with efficiency that has to be filled by other people through mutual interdependence And in this culture what what the enemy is trying to do is separate us Once our young men on computers playing computer games alone in their basements and wrecking them Oh in a world where we have this so-called social media, right? We have never been more isolated in all of history and what you're doing is a very catholic thing It's a very incarnational thing It's like and it seems incredibly basic But when you understand it in the context of culture is let's get out of the basement Let's get out of our own little lives Let's come together and and it's not just powerful for the for the young men because you don't this thing isn't a program You said it's a brotherhood It's it's powerful for all involved Because you're coming together in community and reestablishing in a sense something that's been completely lost in the last I don't know 50 hundred years. It's been totally catholic communities totally wrecked and you know It's important that you understand that this is not a program. I mean there's been so many programs in the church That don't work. They've proven to fail. Yeah This is a brotherhood and it's a brotherhood of men that just happens to include all the way down to the fifth grade So you never graduate out of the program We involve men of all ages of all stations of life single married Grandfathers Paris priests always Paris priests. We have five Paris priests that come to our uh to our frat night in st Paul's it's just incredible to see these priests First to be men, you know, we forget that priests are men first, right? And oftentimes these priests carry with them into their priesthood the wounds of their masculinity, right? So we're there to even help priests as they help you. Oh, it's unbelievable We asked nothing of them. But when you ask nothing of priests, then they want to give even more right It's it's just a beautiful formula. That's absolutely beautiful. That's awesome. Well, we're we're getting close to the break So when we get back from the break, I want you to talk about why you initially got involved I mean, what was your personal ground level motivation? Uh folks, if you want to learn about fraternus go to fraternus.net. That's f r a t e r n u s Dot net fraternus not dot net And I guarantee you if you get involved with this program, I've seen the fruits I've seen of course Terry and his family and his kids and a lot of the other Young men and and men who've been involved with us and it's had a very positive impact on them It's been inspiring to me from the outside a little bit sad because I wasn't able to get involved with this So I want to talk about after the break your personal Why and then I want to you know, I think some people are going to ask the question. Well, is this like a Catholic or another version of the Boy Scouts. So it's certainly not that but we'll we'll talk about all this when we get back from the break All right, so I ended just a little bit early just because the timing issue there So 12 17 What do you want me to go to Just 13 is that fine? Okay, we can even go a little bit over. Okay, mark. It's a cope Welcome back to divine intimacy radio your radio haven of rests. I'm dan burkin. I'm here with terry rumore talking about a beautiful Brotherhood emerging in the church That's having a huge impact on men dads their sons Fraternice net is the website where you can find this Beautiful brotherhood called fraternice. Tell us why terry that you got involved initially with fraternice. What was your motivation? What were you looking for? Sure. So I've always had a heart for both mentoring and brotherhood And quite inappropriately I poured myself Into sports athletics really became something that I thought was going to fulfill that need of brotherhood and mentoring and certainly there is a Use for sport sports can offer some things particularly at younger ages with young men But we live in an overemphasized sports culture particularly here in alabama. I mean, that's just to be honest I mean, we just it's a god here. It's over the top It's over the top and it became over the top in my own life And god revealed to me that as you approach the the upper echelons of sports The the uniqueness and the individuality of a person Really is dispensed for their utilitarian value for what they can offer to a team And I found myself even you know looking at these young men that I had mentored early in age And when they could no longer Provide for my wins or losses I dispensed with them and it made me ashamed And so I got out of sports all together, but I still had a heart for something. I wanted something I knew there was something there just by happen chance. I happened to stumble upon fraternice in a in a couple's Dinner that we had brought down a speaker actually a mother from here in birmingham had brought down a speaker from Nashville his name is danny snider and he came down to talk to us about this thing called fraternice. I'd never heard about it before And I knew immediately. I knew immediately that this is what god had for me The funny story is that my my wife really She had asked me to go to this. I normally don't go Decided to make a last minute decision to go and then at the last minute my children were Called away and so we were gonna have a date night and my wife turned to me and said Hey, let's not go to this dinner party and something in me drew me to this dinner party We ended up fighting all the way up to the footsteps of this house I mean it was like the devil was attacking. He just knew that if I walked through that threshold that Katie bar the door it was over Well, I prevailed my wife was disappointed We walked through the house, but within two minutes, you know, you know charlotte and how loving she is She walked up to me and she whispered in my ear She says this is why we are here and this is what you have to do And that's you know, that that's how it all started here in Birmingham. And so As we began to develop fraternice in Birmingham. I prayed to god for 12 men and six boys. I knew that the men were the heart of this They're the key Because you have to have the men boys want to be around good virtuous men. We're gonna find A club a culture a tribe. That's just how we're built That's why you have all these, you know, these online gaming communities and these Social media communities these jogging groups. Yeah, those are all distorted expression. They're not some of those aren't bad jogging groups That's the thing hiking gaming is very destructive. Yes, but that but why why do why are people drawn To game with other people it's this it's this it's this thing that god's put into us that says You must be with others to be healthy and whole But it's destructive in that context. What you're doing is reviving a more holy context. Absolutely So we we we gathered together and as I prayed for these men and these young men to to arrive Lo and behold, we ended up. I think the first year at the cathedral We had like 35 men and about 40 boys. It was an incredible How hard was that to do though? Well, I tell you the unique thing about it is is that it is very difficult to go up to younger boys And to introduce yourself and to engage them Particularly in the in in the ways of christ It's easy to kind of entice them with sports or boy scouts or hunting or fishing But when you're trying to encourage them about the life of virtue, I found that it was a lot more difficult than you would expect But it's built into us to be paternal And when we tap into a community of men who can then see what their paternal strengths are their fatherhood strengths are It's unbelievable. It's like that mastercard commercial that says, you know, this is cost this and this cost this but Fatherhood is priceless. Yeah, and when you tap into authentic fatherhood what happens in the community at the parish level in your own homes In your own prayer life It's just unbelievable and people want more of that. Yeah, I I agree with that and I asked the question How difficult is you answered the question? Well, but I'm asking a slightly different question How hard was it for you to to build a fraternist community in The cathedral, I mean, how long did it take what it was not hard It was not hard because I think I think men really want something. They know we know inherently something's off We know the culture's off. We know the messaging that we're hearing from advertisements and from the news media. It's off It's wrong. It's a lie. Right. We're oftentimes Handicapped or crippled and to know how to to fix it how to do it You know, god gave me the ability to talk The you know excitement for this the passion for this which is why I found myself in this position nationally to kind of recruit You know new chapters So it wasn't particularly difficult in Birmingham You just go out and ask invite Invite men want to be invited and one of the things I found that really worked with men is Challenge them men want to hear a challenge. They want to respond to a challenge So I would just challenge my you know, these men Yeah, you just say hey, we're we're getting together and how would you say how would you do that? Well, it's funny because one of my best friends in life. His name is Jeremy D. Piazzin. I didn't even give him an option I just said you're doing you're coming with me. This is what we're doing Right and uh, and and other men followed suit and once you begin to tap into that It's it's really just uh, it takes care of itself Now, how did you approach our pastor father jarabic with or was it father basal at the time? Yeah, so how did that go? Was that easy as well? Uh, it was not as easy Um, I think that uh, sometimes pastors as we talked about earlier are Somewhat skittish about another program in their minds. This is a program, but it's not a program It's not a program. Yeah, I'm not saying that I knew that for sure You know 100 when I first started but I've come to develop and understand that But uh, we prayed a lot and I just I had to be patient I'm an impatient person by nature And I think the lord was teaching me a little something and so uh, it took months and months of prayer But I'll never forget I was out of town and I got the call from Father basal and he he just said, uh, okay, let's do this. Awesome. It was just an answer to prayer That's awesome. Can you give me a story just a anecdote of uh, Maybe an impact of fraternice on the life of a man or a young man So one of the most I think significant things that occurred was we were at ranch Um, it is an annual gathering. It's an annual gathering, right? It's actually a national gathering happens once a year It's an incredible gathering and I got word that a young man who had a golfing Scholarship from tremendous golfing talents that had been looking at different schools all across the country Um, made a decision To stay in Birmingham for the sole reason that he could be close to a fraternice chapter Wow, so he went to school in Birmingham went to went to school at sanford university because he needed he knew He needed to be around men to hold him accountable. That's awesome. He did not trust himself in that college environment And we all know what colleges are like. Yeah, yeah He he knew he needed that brotherhood. I knew at that point. This was several years ago But I knew at that point we were doing something significant. That's awesome. Why is it different than boy scouts? And what's it's not a catholic version of boy scouts, right? It's not I mean, we're not teaching skills how to tie knots. I mean all those things are important I mean, you know, uh, our opinions of boy scouts aside and where that's headed. Yeah, of course We're focusing primarily on virtue on teaching virtue We do that like I said through sharing a meal together, which is significant We do that through dodgeball, which is an incredibly impactful game to play That's no pun intended. No pun intended And you know, we play dodgeball because every school in the in the world bans dodgeball And so we're like, you know, we're playing dodgeball and there's something very powerful about seeing a priest Hurl a ball at a 12 year old. I mean, it's awesome And and you talk about growing vocations when you when these young men See these priests out there be real men. Yeah, I mean, that's just powerful Yeah, and then we do this through what's called the king's message Which is a delivered message by the commander or someone within the chapter that talks about the virtue of the day Um, and then we have prayer. I mean prayer is such a significant part of what we do So it's very simple. I mean men need simple. We don't need to over complicate this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, awesome. Awesome So in if guys if there's guys listening or moms listening or whoever listening priest listening Who want to engage with you and get this this? Fellowship this brotherhood ignited in their parish or brought to their parish Do they go to fraternus.net or is there a better way? Can they reach out to you directly? How does that work? They do go to fraternus.net. Uh, there is a There's a button a tab. I think it says what to do next or start here You'll click on that There's a question air that you have to kind of answer, you know, what is important is that we are parish sponsored You have to have the support of the priest You do have to have a location something that you know will accommodate groups Where you have classrooms and you have a place to play a place to eat So you answer those questions It will then trigger an email to the national team Which gets triggered to me with your contact information and then I will reach out to you and we can have a discussion There's a training process that occurs, you know Not everyone who wants a fraternus chapter will get a fraternus chapter We grant fraternus chapters, but it's important to us That we start well and that you have the right fundamental things in place You know, I don't know how much time we have but what's beautiful About fraternus is that a lot of times the questions will be, you know, what are you doing for the girls? You know, how do we help the girls? Well, the first answer I have is the best thing we can do for the girls is to put virtuous men Into the community into their lives, right? Yeah, but also God has given women a unique perspective and a unique intuition to know that there is something fundamentally wrong in the world And so oftentimes the first contact I have about fraternus is from a woman from a mother a grandmother A DRE someone who recognizes. Hey, we're missing something and we need something So even if you are a woman out there Reach out Fill out the paperwork or fill out the fill out the online form And then I'll get back to you and kind of give you some instructions as to how We need to go about getting a chapter in your area. Does this affect the church's budget at all? Well, there is there is a financial component to that. I mean generally we have a way of fundraising It's not look for what we offer. We offer like 26 meals a year It's very low cost. We have very low overhead nothing that I do. I'm paid for I mean, it's mostly Men like myself who are so passionate about this who who give of their time We have very low overhead and we're very very few paid staff. So it's not super expensive Awesome. Awesome. Well, I could strongly encourage you out there listening I believe in this enough that even in our community, we have what we would call approved apostolates And when we looked into fraternists, we thought this is really important We got to present this to our community so that our members who are looking and we're concerned about uh developing fellowship and brotherhood and and and helping men understand what it means to live a life of virtue In a time that militates against that that this would be an important tool in their tool chest So it's fraternists dot net. Thank you, terry for all the good you do and for being with us today on divine intimacy radio Absolutely So our time is up. So next time so until next time may the god of peace make you perfect in holiness May he preserve you whole and entire spirit soul and body Irapproachable at the coming of our lord. Jesus christ. Amen. Amen Yeah