 Hi, welcome to Seymour's World on Think Tech Hawaii. First I have to say thank you to the hundreds of emails and texts I got on our show from Russia. But I have to admit something to you, and for those of you who asked me about all that vodka that I drank on the show, it was not real vodka. So I did that only because I felt it was setting the scene for what we were doing in Russia. Today's show is going to be very, very special and a much more serious topic. We're going to be talking about medical marijuana, not just here in Hawaii, but around the world. And I'm so fortunate that we have a guest on Skype with us from Pennsylvania. His name is Dr. Philip Kim, and he will introduce himself and he will tell us about all the research that he has completed, not just on medical marijuana, but on medical marijuana and the ailments that he has worked with. So there has been a tremendous lack of information when it comes to doctors knowing what's going on, patients understanding what's going on. We've all heard about medical marijuana becoming the cure-all for all sorts of diseases, and who knows, is it just like the nutraceutical business where nobody knows what's happening? Dr. Kim has the answers for us. But before we get to Dr. Kim, I want to say hello to Irma. Hi, Irma. Hi, thank you for having me. You introduced me to Dr. Kim. Yes. Thank you very much for doing that. My pleasure. But before that, you and I met through our Make Him Smile. Make Him Smile? Yes, yes. And that's where your daughter, Skyler, was a patient at Capulani Hospital. And we came to play music for her. You did? Yes. And so Skyler's been in and out of the hospital for different reasons. In 2009, she was diagnosed with a very rare autoimmune disease, HLH. Hemophagocytic lympho-hystiocytosis, of which she spent a month in the hospital. About two and a half years later, she was diagnosed with systemic luthis erythmetosis, of which you usually just get one class, one type of luthis, but she apparently has two. So managing her immune system is quite the juggling act. And we have monthly clinics. She gets infusions. She's done six months of chemotherapy. But at the moment, she's feeling good. She's in remission. And we were grateful that we got to meet you and your team, because Skyler loves music. And we saw the tangible impact that it had on our healing and continued healing. So thank you. I just saw her a couple of weeks ago. And this young lady, she's almost 15 now. She turned 15? Yeah. And she is so full of life. Even though she has all these medical issues still within her, she still understands how important living life is every single day. Yes, she does. Which I think it's marvelous. She does. Thank you. Irma, I mentioned to you that I wanted to open up a rehab center here in Hawaii. Yes. And I said to you that I felt that the medical marijuana community in Hawaii should support the rehab center. Now, we could talk about this all day, but this is a short program. So whether marijuana is a gateway drug or not is a question that doctors can answer. Or maybe we'll answer today. I don't know. But when I said that to you, I was so impressed that you immediately knew a lot of the licensees. You were able to direct me to Hawaii and to Justin and to Jason. And these guys are in the middle of doing what they're doing in the medical marijuana community. Here on this island, I'm very well acquainted and I've done a lot of research for one of the licensees in Israel to be able to help them understand what Israel has done. But more important than that, all of a sudden I get a call from you. Seymour, I have this friend, Dr. Phillip Kim, who lives in Pennsylvania, who is doing an amazing amount of research. And thanks to you, I was able to meet Phillip and start talking about what we need to do for physicians to understand where medical marijuana fits in. And right now, the physicians I have spoken to, even my brother who's a doctor, they really don't know. There's such a lack of education. And when I saw the passion that Phillip has for what his business is all about, I said, my God, that is the kind of guy we need to educate a lot of, not just the marijuana community, but our educators, our patients, our physicians, and our government officials who have to regulate this business. So we're going to welcome Phillip. Phillip, can you come on with us, please? Yes. There you are. Hi, Phillip. Welcome to Hawaii. Now the first question I have to ask you, how's the weather in Pennsylvania? Not as good as Hawaii, but it's nice, a nice day today. It's in the end summer today, about 70 degrees, real humidity, but it's great. Good, good. Well, here in Hawaii, I always tell everybody the weather is very boring. You know, it's 80, 85, it's sunny, the trade winds are blowing. You know, just come and visit. Don't come to stay because we have enough people here. But Phillip, we want to talk about what you are doing. So please give us a short introduction. I know you have eight clinics. Yes. And your specialty is in pain management, if I'm correct. Yes, that's correct. Seymour and Irma, I've been, I'm a pain specialist. I'm an anesthesiologist that's full-time pain. I've known since I left my residency in fellowship in 2002. I was a professor at U Penn for a few years. And then I went to private practice and developed a corporation called Center for Inventual Pain and Spine. This is a practice we've grown to about five doctors or eight offices in the Delaware, Pennsylvania area. And what we do is we are basically treating patients with chronic pain. And chronic pain has been the difficulty for many years with the reality that we have patients and we're not able to fix them. I love to be able to fix people, but the reality is a lot of people have conditions which are chronic that will last them for a long period of time. And so this practice has developed as a specialty that will allow doctors in the area to come center as patients. And we do that on a regular basis for all these patients, but we offer many options, whether it's surgery, it's known as basic techniques, medications. We try to do a very multifaceted approach for patients to help with their condition. And part of the thing that we've also seen is we also have developed also to integrate medical practice, which kind of incorporates with the patients with chronic pain and illness overall. And to me, this has been our passion in our practice, how patient with chronic pain. And so we get the patients that people, the doctors send us to that field and everything else. And then we have options, we offer patients. And so for us, the medical marijuana made a lot of sense for us. We have a lot of patients that have these conditions that we try to help with. You know, that's such a wonderful short description of it, but I want to go into a little bit more detail. Medical marijuana itself has been used for many, many years in Europe and Israel where I studied it. And I feel that we need people to understand that it's not just smoking pot that works. Could you explain how you use marijuana for different types of ailments? Yes, it all comes to the understanding that we're now identified and this all comes from Israel in terms of understanding their receptors and the mechanism, how our body has natural cannabinoid and a system that will allow marijuana to work. And the term is medical. Medical marijuana, we understand their ingredients and aspects of the plant itself that can help control conditions. Particularly in chronic pain, chronic ailments can be very helpful. And for medical marijuana fits with the idea that in our practice we have a big issue overall with pain medications trying to find different options and limitations in what's available. And the idea that we have now a new class of medications, a new concept which helps patients is huge. Because we are dealing with an issue in our practice and our frustration has always been on the opioid issues, addiction problems, misuse, overdose. And we all have personal experiences in our lives. I have had patients have these problems and we're always looking for an option. And for the last 10 years or so we are starting to identify with the research in Israel, in the Netherlands and Canada which shows that this makes, can make a difference for patients. And that to me is where we have now hidden to a growth period, understanding that we have a lot of patients with chronic pain, a lot of patients with opioids. We have now means of giving them other solutions beyond just those medications alone. So if you're looking at heroin addicts or all types of opioid addicts, are you saying that medical marijuana could be a way to weed them off it? Or is it something to be used to live with what they're doing? How does medical marijuana help them? Well it's a concept that we have now in other class of medicines. If the patients who are using this for pain, for their suffering, to give them some quality life, now have another means of controlling them without the effects of the opioids. And heroin is one of them as you know. And I believe that in many ways, marijuana is many ways safer than the opioids in heroin. And also believe that it means a good and quality life. And that to me is where we fit with the medical marijuana. We want more choices for our patients. Right. Now how do you compare it to methadone or to suboxone? Well there are different classes. Methadone, suboxone or types of opioids that we use. Suboxone is a mix of an opioid we use for a prediction relief. But we also know those components of methadone can be helpful for pain as well. But they're very different. This methadone itself is an opioid. Some benefits and also some side effects. Why is it taking the federal government so long to legalize medical marijuana? It comes to the history and I hope that in our next presentation we have a chance to go through some history of medical marijuana in the United States and the world. But it comes to the fact that there has been an ongoing process since the 1930s on the concerns about using marijuana for recreational use. And that's really kind of muddied or clouded the sensation that realized that there are benefits for the medication. There are benefits of marijuana we're not seeing because of our past history of this in the last few decades. So is it a feeling in your mind that what especially here in the U.S. that everybody is looking as medical marijuana as basically a gateway towards recreational marijuana to the selling of actual marijuana for people who do not need it for medical purposes? Yes and no. I don't believe that there are legitimate people out there, clear and company, that are looking to use this recreational. There may be a future in the policymakers and the states are going to go on this and that's the way it's going to be. But I believe the emphasis in this company and everyone that is involved with marijuana wants to help with patients, wants to give the patients that are suffering with chronic pain and notice some other solutions that will currently have available right now. So what studies and policies need to be implemented right now to make this happen? Well, there's actually a lot of studies that come about but it's not in the United States. The issues about marijuana are such that now we have identified and thanks to the Israeli physicians and scientists have found how the receptors located, how the mechanism works in our own bodies, these types of endocannabinoids. These are basically the types of chemicals that naturally release in our bodies to give us life and function in our bodies. We now know there are means which we can add medicines from the marijuana plants. They will cause phytocannabinoids that can help patients with these conditions, that can help them with the pain, help them perhaps get off opioids, give them some life other than what we have right now currently available. So do you feel the responsibility of the dispensaries around the country is to educate the patient who walks in the door or should the patient be educated before he walks in the door? I believe the patient should be educated before they walk into the door. Which is what they do in Israel. Correct. And I believe the patients should not only get self-educated themselves but I also believe the medical field, particularly the physicians, need to get on a path to understand the system that exists outside the United States and be able to offer this at some level for patients. And I believe that's what the constant medical marijuana is all about. We have plenty of patients that have chronic pain in this country. Plenty of patients who are on medication hub controller symptoms do not get the best effect. And this is where medical America can play a role for our patients. What about quality control, Phillip? I mean, you know, I've seen a lot of dispensaries in Canada, in Colorado, in California, Washington, etc. And I mean, there's so much stuff out there. How do we know it's what it's supposed to be? You remember, you know, at one point, vitamin this was supposed to be great for you, then they find out it's not great for you. Where are we with the actual medical marijuana quality control? Well, the medical marijuana quality control is a very important question. Glad you brought that up. Because we are starting to realize that just like the nutraceutical business, just like the agricultural business, whether it's with the growth of wine through the grapes, there is a means of regulating and controlling this to be safe for patients. And that's the first part about this whole regulation and development. We've got to make sure the product is safe. We've got to make sure it's free of pesticides, chemicals, and also stability of the medication, also proper control of what's actually in it is in it. And that to me is what quality control I believe is about. And in one essence, it's a great plan, but we have to make sure for the masses we do this properly and make it safe for patients for many reasons. What type of training procedures do you see necessary from you as a supplier to the physician who is going to prescribe it? The whole process has to be one, I believe, by educating the physicians, the medical field to tell them, medical marijuana is here and it does have a basis. It does have a basis on current research and basic science, current research in the clinicals. And granted, I agree with most of my colleagues in this field, there's a lot more research to be done. We also have to understand it's just not about medical marijuana that we have to explain to patients, also to make sure that it stays in the patients, stays with the patients, and it gives them some quality life. And the biggest part about this, educating the physicians, having to know what's available. Yes, we do need more clinical studies. We do need to be regularly, give us more abilities to do these studies to really understand these four impactful benefits for patients. Well, Philip, we have to take a break, but I'm sitting here on pins and needles with about 20 more questions and I'm getting calls from people who have been watching the show and want to ask you questions. So we're going to come back after the break and we're going to talk a little bit about the history of marijuana and what your company, Cannabis Sink, is doing. I understand you have several locations, correct? Yes. So what you're doing on the research side, I'm much more interested in how you're going to make sure that the proper medication of medical marijuana is administered to the patient. That to me is a very important piece. So I want to take a break. I need some water and I hope you do too and we will come back to Seymour's world in a moment. Aloha, my name is Josh Green. I serve a senator from the Big Island on the Kona side and I'm also an emergency room physician. My program here on ThinkTech is called Health Care in Hawaii. I'll have guests that should be interesting to you twice a month. We'll talk about issues that range from mental health care to drug addiction to our health care system and any challenges that we face here in Hawaii. We hope you'll join us. Again, thanks for supporting ThinkTech. Hi, I'm Stacy Hayashi and you can catch me on Mondays at 11 on ThinkTech Hawaii. Stacy to the rescue. See you then. Aloha, how are you doing? It's me, Angus McTech, wishing you to welcome and join us to see us on ThinkTech Hawaii. Join my co-hosts, Gordo the Texard, and Andrew the security guy every Friday from 1300 to 1345. We look forward to see you. We'll talk tech and we'll have some wee bit of fun. And remember, let your wing gang free wherever you be. Aloha. Hi, I'm Donna Blanchard. Hi, welcome to Seymour's world. I'm Seymour Casamersty, my guest, Irma Baptiste. And our guest on Skype is Dr. Phillip Kim in Pennsylvania. Hi, Phillip, welcome back. Boy, that first segment was pretty intense because we're trying to wrap our hands around this medical marijuana issue. And I know as a... not an investor, by the way, but as somebody who wants to use the medical marijuana licensees to help fund my rehab center, I have to make sure they understand that this is such a medical issue. So before we get to our slides, one quick question. The medical marijuana that you're using, are you testing it individually for different ailments or are you testing it as a general pain relief? Both. That's kind of the controversy about this. I mean, we've known and utilized actually a synthetic test of cannabinoids, adrenabinol, for nausea, vomiting. We also use for pain. I've used this for 10 years for patients who are in conditions in the United States. But I believe the plan itself is not just one ingredient. It's multiple ingredients that have value for us as clinicians for patients. And so that's going to be the crux of the future of the research, is to identify all the ingredients, all things that have value for patients, and then really kind of hone in what makes sense for patients. But see, in medicine, we're in the mind of trying to find the magic bullet for these patients. The reality is it may not be one bullet. It actually may be the shotgun approach with the plan itself that may benefit for patients. That's kind of the real issue that I've interested in in terms of the research and the plans. And I know that a lot of good investigators in the United States are starting to look at that as an approach for patients. All right, cool. All right, we want to show some of the history of marijuana and where it's going. So I'm going to ask Zori to bring up the first slide which shows medical marijuana is here in Pennsylvania. Now, do you have a license there in Pennsylvania for medical marijuana? No, the license in Pennsylvania is still in process. As of April of this year, it got approved by the governor, but it's still in process. And how many licensees will be in Pennsylvania? As far as I know, because I really kind of really deal with the medical issues for the company. But I believe there's about five licensees that probably get offered to the state. All right, the next slide talks about the world history of cannabis. Does it really go back that far into the... Oh, it goes back 10,000 years. If you look over to the right, you see actually the symbol, the Chinese symbol for the Kansas plant, or the right and left. It's going down 10,000 years in history of this. You know, the whole thing about the history of marijuana is not just China. India had it. And Africa, they had it. And they know that this was around for centuries. The Romans used it. The Greeks used this. I mean, this to me has a major history. If you read about it, it's just fascinating. That's what got me interested in this. Then on top of it, it got introduced by the Spanish in 1545. There is a very famous Irish physician, Dr. William Brooke O'Shaughnessy, that brought this up from Europe also to the United States. And that's what I really introduced. But it's more than just... I gave you some basic key points in history. There's more to this than I've shown in this slide. I'm very glad that you are showing this slide, Phil, because I go to China quite often and you know they believe in very natural products. And I know that there they still use cannabis in China as a treatment for all sorts of illnesses. I don't think it's documented enough for our FDA standards, but at the same time it is part of treatment. Let's see the next slide. So this shows marijuana or marijuana, I think you called it. Weird orgies, wild parties. Go ahead. So what you're seeing right there is actually... What happened with this, and the whole process is that in marijuana, we had a ruling in 1937 on the US Marijuana Tax Act. The purpose of this was there's a guy by the name of a doctor, not doctor, but Henry Asinger, who was a head drug star at the time that felt that marijuana had a history and felt that this was a drug which was used to basically get high. It was a drug used to have orgies, had these parties. This is what that slide's all about. And this is the sad part about this. This led to our current scenario in the United States with marijuana as a recreational drug. But what's very interesting about this at the time frame was there are a lot of doctors who are totally against this in terms of the ruling against marijuana at that time. Marijuana Tax Act was basically an act where you got charged that dollar, I believe, for trying to prescribe it or even dispense medication, which basically economically stopped the trade. But there are doctors at the time, Dr. William Osler and Dr. Shancie, that really felt that it was at that value. They knew the history in generations before this actually came to the United States. And fortunately what happened then led in 1942, when marijuana had been removed off the U.S. farm field, basically it's a compendium that would be officially the drugs that would be allowed for use for medical use in the country. In 1970, marijuana got be classified by the FDA as a class one. Basically it meant it was unlawful and you could not use this drug at all based on those laws. Well, we're looking at your slide called National, which shows what has happened over the last couple of years in August of 2013 and December of 2014. And of course we all know that it is still an illegal substance in the U.S. and that makes doing business selling marijuana and growing marijuana a very difficult procedure. And that's not something we want to talk about today. Let's see the next slide. That's the U.S. states with medical marijuana. So that's amazing. I didn't realize there were that many already. Yes, so about 24 states as we count. And the ones in grain are the ones that have some type of law for medical marijuana. That to me is impressive over the last few years and over the decade. We started to see this because I believe the information that is coming from this program and any programs is now starting to see that people are understanding its history, its benefits. And we're already starting to realize that everyone's seeing what I've seen in my practice. We've got a lot of patients with chronic illness, chronic pain. And now with the opioid epidemic we're starting to realize maybe the patient can be helped with another type of medication. Philip, we have so much more to cover. This is my most important slide. Please explain this one, potential therapeutic uses. Now is this proven when you say potential? Have you used it for a lot of these disorders, illnesses? These are potential therapies that we know have identified through international studies. And a lot of this is also based on some basic studies in terms of with the animals and preclinical studies. We also have some clinical case reports, clinical studies, trials that show that these are conditions. The first one I have here are potential benefits. And to me this is where we understand, now we understand the system and now we understand the whole mechanism how the medications work. Now we're starting to identify different conditions. And a lot of the conditions you're seeing here are chronic ailments that we suffer, a lot of patients suffer, not only in just the United States but also in the world. I think this is where medical marijuana makes a big difference for patients in the future. Wonderful. Now we've got to, we only have a couple of minutes and I do want to ask you a couple of questions. Sure. The research labs, there's been talk about we don't have a lot of research labs. What are you doing about it or what do you suggest we do? It's a tough question because what's unfortunate because of this classification is very difficult to get funding and research. Just as an issue for an investigator like myself, you have to get a review board to evaluate the validity of the study to get it done. But you also need funding. And if you're restricted by the federal government it's very hard to get research money to do these proper studies. What's your opinion Philip, how long before the federal government says okay? Well they already have okayed it to a point. And the recent rulings a few months ago was the FDA was going to try to allow more research to be done for medical reasons. And I believe that's going to be the future of the bill is to allow more researchers to do more of the studies, more evidence to show it's benefit for patients, more evidence to show what can help overall and also to worry about the concerns that people have laid with the potential use for adolescence, the issues concerned to possibly for addiction issues. There's a lot out there we need to learn about. And we're learning as we go through this but we like the bill is to do more research. And I believe the next few years people are going to start to benefit from marijuana and we'll find its use in our therapies. I thank you so much Philip. I'm so sorry I want to continue this conversation and I may ask you to come back on the show again if you don't mind. But unfortunately our time is limited and you have done such a great job of explaining where we are with medical marijuana. The best I have ever seen and that's after two or three years of working on it. So thank you. Thank you.