 Hey everybody, tonight we're debating whether or not it's child abuse to teach masturbation abstinence and we're starting right now. With Diddley's opening statement, thanks so much for being with us, Diddley the Floor is all yours. Thank you so much for having me. I'm sure this will not be scuffed at all. I'm Diddley, I'm a YouTuber and Twitch streamer. I mostly do ASMR, wait, hang on. You're echoing for me. Jokes, okay. Oh, good. Okay, so I mostly do ASMR and I play video games. But I also have an interest in science, philosophy, religion and sex ed. So I talk about all those kinds of things on my Twitch. I accept the biological reality that masturbation is a normal and healthy part of human sexual development. People start engaging in it from a very young age as we come to explore and understand our own bodies. And as long as it's not excessive and it's only performed in private, this is a completely normal behavior. For a parent to tell their child to never masturbate, they are teaching their child that masturbation is wrong or inappropriate behavior, which only leads to feelings of guilt and shame, which can then follow them into their adult life, which of course can affect their future romantic and sexual relationships as well as negatively affect their view towards their own body and sexuality. Making a child feel ashamed for what is a normal part of our sexual development is psychological abuse. It is absolutely necessary to teach children comprehensive sex education in school since we cannot confidently rely on parents to have these discussions with their own children as parents are notoriously horrible at having the birds and the bees talk or avoid the conversation entirely. So that's it. I'll keep it short and sweet. You got it. Thank you very much for that opening. And folks, it's your first time here at Modern Day Debate. We are a neutral debate platform hosting debates on science, religion, and politics. We hope you feel welcome no matter what walk of life you are from. No matter which side you take for this debate, we're glad that you're here. Hit that subscribe button as we have many more debates coming up. With that, we're going to kick it over to LP, a.k.a. I Hippocrite. Thanks for being with us. I Hippocrite, the floor is all yours. Thanks, James. Always a pleasure to be here in Modern Day Debate. And thank you, Dillie, for having this conversation. It's always fun to test our ideas against each other. That was a really short opening. I have a little bit more, so I feel kind of, you know, I'll try to keep it. I'll try to get through as quickly as possible, so it doesn't seem like I'm just monologuing here. But we have this idea in our culture that you may have encountered at some point, most of you have probably heard of it. It's fairly pervasive. It's this idea of sexual repression that if you try to, you know, bury your natural urges that that's going to have this profound damaging effect on your psyche, probably drive you crazier to the brink of suicide or something like that. I'm sure most of you have heard something along those lines before. The problem is there's no evidence that this actually exists. The idea originates with a man named Sigmund Freud, who was a raging cocaine addict and a complete fraud, a complete hack whose methods were not even remotely scientific. This is a guy who would like rail a giant line of coke and then write down that the reason a girl has a cough is because she subconsciously wants to suck her father's penis and she's trying to not think about that. And that makes her cough, right? That's not like a made up, absurd example. That's something that Freud really thought that was one of his theories. If you're ever looking for a good laugh, go to the Wikipedia page on repression and psychoanalysis. There's a big section on this page of people who tried to test Freud's theories in like a laboratory or research setting. They tried to conduct experiments that would show the predictive validity of the idea of repression and they ended up abandoning the project because either they would look at his theories and decide there was just literally no possible way to falsify what he was saying. They couldn't conceive of any way to test it, but also even more to the point, they would constantly argue about what Freud even meant because his language was so informal and unacademic and he would constantly contradict himself, sometimes just in one sentence to the next, he would seemingly contradict himself until these people who thought he was like some kind of genius would just argue for hours and hours about what he was actually trying to say, and they ended up abandoning the project. Another Wikipedia page you can look at is the page for specifically sexual repression. You know, they talk about religion and cultural ideas of modesty and conservative values, essentially, and that and nobody's disputing that those are real. I don't really like the term repression. To me, that's a way of trying to pathologize civilized behavior. And if you want to pathologize something, you need to show the actual evidence of these deleterious effects. But what we're interested in on the sexual repression, Wikipedia page is the section on research findings. And if you look at that section, what you'll see is they only reference three things, none of which validate the concept of sexual repression. Only one of the three things even attempted to validate it and failed. It came back, no, their hypothesis. So there's no evidence that sexual repression is a real psychological phenomenon that has these negative effects. The studies just don't exist. Maybe maybe Digley knows something I don't. And she has some studies waiting up her sleeve. I'd love to see it because I've tried to find it and I couldn't find it. Now, why are people then so willing to believe this phenomenon that isn't real? Well, the answer to that question might lie in a really interesting study from the late 80s titled effects of prolonged consumption of pornography on family values. This was like a good study design where they had a control group and then they had a group of test subjects who they in both for both groups, they asked them like they surveyed them on their values and their beliefs, then for the test subjects, they had them every day. Like for like three weeks, watch 30 minutes of pornography. My details might not be exactly right because I've looked at this a couple years ago, but what they found was that for the group that was exposed to pornography, it had all kinds of like effects on their moral evaluations of things. But what's really interesting to us, and I'll quote directly from the abstract here, they found that exposure to pornography enhanced the belief that male and female promiscuity are natural and that the repression of sexual inclinations poses a health risk. So it's that last part that's really interesting. The repression of sexual inclinations poses a health risk. That's not a rational way to construct your worldview, watching a bunch of meth heads gangbang each other in a video. That's not empirical evidence that's teaching you about the realities of conservative values. That's just porn rotting your brain and putting you in a situation where you now have this post-hoc rationalization where you're trying to say, oh, I have to engage in this behavior. It would be unhealthy for me not to do so. Now, as for the idea that masturbation has is like beneficial for you, I actually didn't really hear Diddly push this that hard, but it is something that's pushed by people. If you Google, for example, you know, masturbation and mental health, the top results in Google that all come up will be a bunch of things about how it's like beneficial for your mental health. You need to look at what evidence is actually being used. You really scrutinize the sources they use when they make these claims. What you'll find if they even put a source at all. Most of them link to the same study, which is a study called Getting High on Dopamine Neuroscientific Aspects of Pleasure. This is a hilarious. I'll tell you the first line of the abstract of this study. It says, hedonism and pleasure are one of the main goals of human life. That's a very strange language for an academic paper and the whole paper is full of grammatical errors, but that's not the point. Also, they don't talk about masturbation in this study at all. But what they do is they say that when you orgasm, your brain releases dopamine. And that's it. And so the people on these web pages, when you Google masturbation and mental health, they're saying masturbating or orgasming releases dopamine. Dopamine feels good. It relieves stress, reduces cortisol. Therefore, this is good for your mental health. This is like specious and presumptuous to say the least. You could put it in any other context to see how ridiculous it sounds. For example, heroin, when you inject heroin into your veins, it releases dopamine in your brain. But nobody would say that shooting heroin is good for your mental health. And the reason you wouldn't say that is because it would be wrong. And we know it would be wrong because we've looked at the mental health of heroin users and compared it to the mental health of the general population. Heroin users are more prone to depression. They're more prone to certain personality disorders and psychological disorders. So just because heroin shoots puts dopamine in your brain doesn't mean that it's good for you and the same can be applied to masturbation. If you wanted to know whether or not masturbation is good for your mental health, you need to do a study where you compare people who masturbate to people who don't masturbate and then look at who has better mental health. There's actually at least four studies where they've done this. And all of the studies have linked masturbation to depression, meaning that people who masturbate at higher frequencies are more likely to be depressed. I have all those studies. I can cite them for you if you want. So why do those pages in the Google results? Why don't they tell you about this part? And the answer is because there's this like there's this ideological push for sex positivity, it comes, it all goes back to Freud and this idea that the real problem is stigma and shame. And that's why people get angry and become addicted to drugs and become hypersexualized is because of guilt and shame. None of it has any basis in the scientific literature. So yeah, we need better studies. If you want to actually make the case that masturbation is good for your mental health, we need better studies than what we currently have. Currently, if anything, the evidence points the other way. I have a few more things, but I'd like to get into the conversation. So I'll just leave it there. You got it. Thanks for that opening as well. I hypocrite and want to let you know, folks, thrilled to have you here. If you didn't know all of our debates end up on the podcast within 24 hours of being live, if you haven't yet, pull up your favorite podcast app. Find modern day debate. It's ad free, music free. It gets right into the debate. You can listen to it, whether you've got a service connection or not anywhere you want, listen to debates on the go by finding us on Spotify. Apple podcasts, you name it. We're on every podcast app with that. Thank you very much, Diddley and I hypocrite. The floor is all yours for open dialogue. I have a couple of questions I'd love to ask. I don't know if you want to respond to what I said. You can if you want, but I really have some burning questions for you. Yeah, I will just say that I found it interesting, although not that surprising that you decided to allocate most of your time and your opening statement to discuss things that I don't even think really are relevant. Sigmund Freud took up a lot of that time. I mean, this is one of the founding fathers of psychology. We didn't even know what a clitoris was then. I don't really think his discussions on, you know, Oedipus complex is really relevant today. As ironically, sorry to interrupt, but just real quick. Ironically, Freud actually thought masturbation was the cause of like all the world's ills. So it is funny, but the idea of sexual repression is anyway. Anyway, go ahead. Sorry. Also, the effect of pornography. I'm not sure what that has to do with the whole discussion we had. I guess well, it wasn't really a big discussion on Twitter, but I'd love to go through the article, which is the entire reason why we're having this debate that you posted on Twitter. Sure. So I mean, you said you have a few questions. So maybe we can go through the article after that. Yes. So what I want to know is like what how do you qualify abuse? First of all, like what how do you define child abuse? And what I'm really interested in is, do you think that parent like if a parent says to their child, hey, you shouldn't masturbate, you should exercise self control. It's it's better for you to control your edges. So if you feel like masturbating, you shouldn't do that. Do you think that person should have their children taken away? Or do you think that it's OK to abuse your children a little bit in that context? I don't think they should have their children taken away from them. I just don't think they're doing a very good thing by their children. I would define child abuse as maltreatment of a child, whether that's physical, emotional, psychological. So I think making a child feel ashamed for doing something that is a part of discovering yourself, your body, it's a part of growing up really. It's a part of adulthood, part of life. I think that that is cruel. Yeah, well, just to be clear, when they do, when they do do studies on masturbation and they ask people if they masturbated, it's anywhere from twenty five to forty percent of males don't masturbate. And it's much higher for females. Twenty five percent, did you say, don't masturbate? Yeah, twenty five to forty percent, depending on the study that you're looking at when they survey. OK, because most of the studies I've seen say as much as five percent don't masturbate, so that's interesting, you found something for forty percent. That sounds insane to me. Well, so this is like usually like the survey question will be like, have you masturbated in the last three months? Have you masturbated in the lab or whatever? So if you're talking about like total lifetime, it could be lower. I don't specifically know those exact details. So I'm willing to concede that one to you. But the point the point remains that this is not something that everybody does. It's not something that is necessary. You don't have to do it to be human. So of course, yeah, right. It should be a decision that you make individually, whether you want to do it or not, not up to the parents. Well, it's a parent's job to guide the kid to into doing things that are in their best interests and discovering their bodies, making a connection with their bodies, their sexuality isn't a positive thing. Well, I would argue that having willpower and self control and discipline, not being a slave to your passions, not if a child, if a child grows up thinking that orgasms are something that are meant to just have on tap and to feel it whenever you want it. Then when that child eventually falls in love with a girl and gets into a relationship or soon as child's a boy at some point, another girl is going to come along and tempt him sexually. And if he hasn't spent any effort into practicing self control, he's going to end up cheating on his girlfriend or whatever and breaking her heart. And so the point is, is that these things have real consequences down the road that children should be made aware of. They should be made aware of the risks that they're running if they don't understand the value of control. Would you would you like to go through the article? Like on the on the issue of like, should they have their parents taken away? I want to spend a lot of time on semantics, but I feel like calling it abusive is just sort of this like hyperbolic, hysterical language. And if you don't feel like there should actually be repercussions for the people who are engaging in that behavior, then I would argue you don't really think it's abuse, because if I were to give you examples of people who are actually abusing their children, you would probably think that there should be some kind of intervention that took I just agree with that. I think there are many things that could be considered child abuse that don't warrant a child being taken away. Obviously, there are different levels of abuse. For example, I mean, I think it's abuse to hit your child. A lot of people use corporal punishment against their child due to a lack of knowledge around the topic, I would say. I don't think it's necessary to have their children taken off of them. But I think there needs to be a lot of educating in that area. Even circumcision, I would say, is a form of child abuse, but I wouldn't recommend that circumcised children be taken away from their parents. OK. Before we get into the article, let me ask you this. If a parent were to say to their kid, you shouldn't drink soda. I don't want you drinking soda. Would you consider that to be child abuse? No. OK. But the kid might go to a birthday party somewhere where they're serving soda and then he decides to drink it and then he could feel shame and guilt because he went against the parents' wishes. How is that different? What's the meaningful because drinking soda isn't an intrinsic part of our human identity, our sexual development. Right. But we already agreed. Masturbation is an intrinsic that there's people who don't do it. I mean, I think it would be a very, very small, if not non-existent amount of people who have never masturbated in their entire life, including in childhood. Well, right. But is there is there any evidence that that has a negative effect on those people? That what does not masturbating that not masturbating? I mean, this discussion isn't about whether or not people should masturbate. This is a discussion about whether it's appropriate for a parent to tell a child that they can never masturbate or just that they shouldn't. That they shouldn't. Yeah, that abstinence, right? Abstinence, you should abstain from this activity. I mean, obviously, if there is someone who has no desire to masturbate, that's not going to negatively affect them if they don't masturbate. Yeah, I mean, you just you're just kind of dodging the point here. The point is the use of the word intrinsic. If you use words like intrinsic and essential, you're intrinsic as in we are sexual beings. That's what I mean by that. Yeah, but that doesn't mean you have to stroke yourself like a monkey in a cage. Like that doesn't follow logically. It doesn't mean you have to, but it means it is very normal if you do. Right. And you don't have to drink Pepsi either. But some a lot of drinking Pepsi is normal. But so I so I don't understand like I said, drinking Pepsi isn't a part of our human sexual development. Well, yeah, but we're talking about sexual development. We're talking about parenting technique. Masturbation is a part of sexual development. Right. So I'm just trying to find out what is the distinction between the two? And all you say is the distinction that one is sexual. So if it's in the realm of sexuality, it's abuse. But if it's in the realm of just general health, it's a part of normal human development that is sexual. I know you keep drinking soft drink all drink is not. In any way, part of human development, sexual or not. Yeah, I understand it's not sexual, but just calling something normal doesn't mean that you have to do it. You know, there's lots. I never said they have to do it. OK. All right. Well, we can we can drop the whole Pepsi thing. I'm not I'm not really convinced that there's a meaningful distinction there. You just keep saying one is sexual and one isn't. But we can we can move on. I have other things I wanted to go over, but you want to do the article. So let's do the article. Yeah, sure. One set. Does this involve a screen share by chance? Because we can do that if you want. I can show the audience the article too. Ah, yes. So well, this is the tweet here and then here is the article. Want to remind you, folks, if you haven't yet and you enjoy sick topics like this, hit that like button. We appreciate your support. So this is really the whole reason we're having this debate. Oh, I can't see it yet. This Daily Mail article, which I linked it on Zoom in The Messenger. Oh, OK. Is there a way if you want let's see here what I can do, go ahead and I'll actually load it up on my side. It's not a big deal since it's not a video. Go ahead. I don't want to interrupt. I just have the tweet up on my end. But you can pull it up the article. I would just like I just have a question about what exactly is it in this article that you have a problem with the most? I have the whole thing I'm against. I'm against sex education, full stop. Parents should sex educate their children. It shouldn't be something that happens in public schools. But yeah, obviously, the giving nine year olds a homework assignment to masturbate would be the most egregious. So what was the actual assignment? Oh, I see where this is the big dunk where it's like they weren't actually given this that you for somebody who accuses me of things not relevant to the debate, this is the article, the article that we're debating about, isn't relevant to the debate. The topic of the debate is is it abuse to teach masturbation? Abstinence, yes, based on this article, which I replied to. And then you asked me to the homework assignment didn't actually tell them to masturbate and it's a big own, whatever. It's irrelevant to the debate. It has nothing to do with the topic of whether you just said that the main issue you had was with them getting masturbation homework. Now you're saying they didn't actually get the homework. I'm a bit confused. That's no, you're saying that there wasn't actually an assignment telling them to masturbate. I didn't even say that. Yeah, you said it for me. Well, I know where this is going. And oh, you're you're you're mad about something because you didn't read it. This isn't relevant to the debate. The debate is about whether or not abstinence is abuse. The article isn't relevant to the debate. No, not particularly. That was the whole reason why by having this debate. Was your tweet, it has 20,000 likes. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. What's below the tweet is a video. And you responded to the video and you said he's right, destiny. Yes. And that's what we're debating. The claim in the video that it's abuse to tell your kids not to masturbate. You seem confused about the debate topic. Maybe that's why you didn't bring any citations to support. Why is it that you want to reschedule and get the actual debate topic? We can do that. So why is it that in your tweet, you're saying there's a YouTuber named only liberal who thinks it's abuse if you don't do this? He's scared to debate me about it. What is he? What is abuse if you don't do this? What do you mean by that? Right. Teach kids to masturbate. Which I'm I'm making a leak there, but it logically means the hard work. It logically follows. Let me show. Should should children be encouraged to masturbate? I don't think they need to be encouraged at all. They're going to do it regardless. Is it fine to? Is it OK to encourage them? To encourage them? I don't think you need to encourage them. But is it OK if you want to? I think it's a bit weird if you do. So so here you see, don't discourage it, but don't encourage it. Don't guide your children. Just be hands off. Let them say what you have on their own. You as a parent, just mind your business. Don't be involved in your children's lives. Don't guide them. Just let them do whatever they want. Let them make the rules for how they should. What do you disagree with with what I just said? I disagree that if you think it's abuse to tell kids not to masturbate, then you obviously think that masturbation is something really essential and good for them that they should be doing. In which case, you should encourage it. If that's what you believe, I don't think that at all. I think you should encourage kids to make their own decisions based on what they want to do as long as they are doing it in a healthy way in private. Right. So that's very hands off parenting. Just let them do what they want. Mind your own business. Don't don't guide them in either direction. No, I'm all for guiding them. I'm all for comprehensive sex ed and schools. You're for not guiding them. Right. I'm the opposite. Let me let me ask you this. So I'm a Christian and so the Christian tradition of sexual morality teaches that any kind of pursuit of sexual pleasure for the sake of sexual pleasure is immoral and sinful. So in the Christian tradition, we would encourage people to abstain from masturbation. So do you acknowledge that that is part of Christianity? And would you say I've been there? OK, so you believe that raising children Christian is child abuse? I believe that certain aspects of it can be. Yeah. OK, what's interesting about do you think that being religious means that you can't do anything abusive to a child? I'm not saying it can't. I'm just asking you if you think a Christian upbringing is abusive. Not inherently, there are aspects that can be. Well, let's let's say for the sake of argument, let's assume that sexual abstinence up to an including masturbation is part that that's an inherent part of a Christian upbringing. Then you would argue that it is inherently abusive because purity culture in general is abusive to children. You think you think that aspect is abusive? That's an inherent aspect of Christianity. So it's not an inherent. No, that's not inherent to Christianity at all. That's a very small subset of fundamentalist Christians. No, no, that's very, very. Yes, yes, yes. Most Christian, I don't know if it's different in the US. Most religious people do not wait till marriage to have sex. They don't tell their children never to masturbate. That's a very small, extreme sample to do. The question is, what is what? What does the Bible say? What is the actual morality? It's not it's not whether or not people. What does the Bible say? People have people have sex. Therefore, Christianity, what does the Bible say about masturbation? Christianity is very clear about all of these things. So OK, what does the Bible say about masturbation? I'm curious. It falls under the pursuit of sexual pleasure for pleasure. James, you're a Christian, back me up on this. Do you know the scripture? What? Do you know the scripture? Can we look it up? Specifically on masturbation? Yeah, I'm not off hand. No, I'm not sure that there is. I know, like, can you look it up now? I'm open to keep continuing down this. You say rabbit hole. The only thing is just if you could remind the audience how it traces back to whether or not it's child abuse to teach. Masturbation, abstinence. Well, I guess the thing we're getting hung up on here is whether it's just surprising to me that you're basing this all around the Bible, but you don't even know the exact scripture. She won't commit to just saying that. Yeah, she thinks Christianity is child abuse. She's trying to try to like, oh, I don't think that progressive, non non fundamentalist quote unquote version of Christianity. Do you disagree with that? What do you disagree that like non extreme versions of religious I disagree that you're being logically coherent when you say that teaching abstinence is abuse, but raising your children in the Christian tradition isn't abuse because not every child that is raised in Christianity teaches abstinence, but if they are, maybe you did. And you happen to think that every child grew up that way. They didn't know it's not about what every child does. Oh, my goodness. Look, so the point is if that is part of the upbringing, then it's child abuse, according to you. Here's the thing. There's a there's a study. There's a study where I looked at a bunch of studies on masturbation and shame and that kind of thing over the last couple of days. And I saw one where they were talking about feelings of shame in regards to masturbation and it said that like the children who are raised in religious households, about 25 percent of them reported that they were made to feel like ridicule or shame when it comes to masturbation versus like seven percent in the non-religious household. So point being that generally speaking, religious religiosity correlates with abstinence. Do you agree with that as a general rule? Yes. OK, good. Here's the problem, Diddley. We while we don't have like that many good studies on masturbation and mental health and stuff like that, we have an absolute plethora of studies on the outcomes of children who are raised Christian versus children who are raised secularly and the children who are raised Christian do better in all of these really important outcomes like mental health. They're less depressed. They have less anxiety disorders, less personality disorders, less substance abuse, less promiscuity, less hypersexuality. OK, you've heard this like meme of the preacher's Christian households more likely to have two parents in the home. So are they? Yeah. So you're doing this thing where it's like, oh, well, that's not because of the sexual morality. But the point is, if if being raised secularly has all these relatively negative comments, then how do you not just conclude that that's the real child abuse? I even get through all the bad things that happen in religious households. I wouldn't say as a whole that that is a bad thing. Is that what you think about secular households? Because a few people grow up in really poor environments, then secular households as a whole have written off as abusive. No, I have a much stricter definition of abuse than you do. Like you have this very like anything that's even remotely negative is abuse. I think that's kind of silly. Do you agree that there are varying degrees to abuse? Yeah, I agree with that. But there's also things that maybe aren't the greatest things, but they wouldn't rise to the level of being called abuse. Something that is just like it's a little bit negative is not abuse. Abuse is like a serious thing. I know I think when you have children growing up in households where they've been shamed for masturbating and they grow up having a really unhealthy view of sexuality, their body, they fit. They don't even feel comfortable in their own body. They don't feel comfortable feeling sexual pleasure. It even bleeds into their adult life, into their relationships. I've heard many, many stories. I'm sure you have as well of even Christians who waited till marriage, who have to go into counseling because once they start having sex after marriage, they can't disconnect the purity culture from when they get married. You can't just turn that off sex is horrible, sex is bad. And then, oh, wedding night. Now suddenly sex is OK. Some people just can't switch that off and they are just mentally fucked from it. But yet not nearly so mentally fucked as the people who are hypersexualized and promiscuous in the youth, right? Hypersexuality is an actual pathology. Sexual repression is a made up thing that isn't real. You have no scientific evidence for it at all. You have no research findings. You're using anecdotal. There are many research findings on it. I mean, even on people who experience masturbatory guilt, religious trauma, yes. Yes. So they did a study on people who masturbate and whether or not they felt guilt after and they said to the people who felt guilt, they said they found that that correlated with religiosity in some studies, right? But that doesn't mean that people who masturbate have better mental health than people who don't. You understand? And it also doesn't mean that masturbation is moral, right? I mean, I don't think I ever claim feels guilt and shame because it can be a murder. You don't say, you know what the problem is here? It's the stigma around murder, making people feel bad. You know, guilt and shame are adaptive human emotions that God gave us for a reason. That's why we have expressions like, oh, did Lee, she has no shame. Oh, that guy, he's shameless. Those are derogatory expressions meant to signal to civilization. The value of shame. So just to be clear, do you agree with shaming children for masturbating? When you when you put it like that, you're making it like making it sound like you're going to be like, oh, you're worthless if you masturbate. No, I don't agree with with like that kind of shaming. But telling them that this is something they should strive for. This self control is something they should strive for. They might feel shame if they fail to do that in the same way that the kid who drinks the Pepsi at the birthday party might feel shame because he went against his father's wishes, right? There's shame. Shame can apply to all kinds of situations. And it's one of those things where it's like some people are more sensitive, so they might be more prone to those things. But it doesn't mean that you made them feel that way. But can you see how like they're at very varying degrees to levels of shame? For example, for a child eating a cookie out of the cookie jaw when they weren't supposed to eat any sweets compared to being told by their caregivers, their parents, that they can't touch their own bodies? Do you not see a difference between those two? You haven't provided any any like like like even if you say there's research that shows that they felt shame because of the because of masturbating, you have to show that those people have worse outcomes. Also, this is really important. Don't they wouldn't have that problem if they didn't masturbate. They wouldn't feel any shame if they just abstained from masturbation. So you have a situation where you're you're blaming the the morality where people going against the morality instead of just saying, well, why don't we look at people who don't masturbate? Do they have problems? Are they insane? And the answer is no. So just you think it's a moral, you think it's a moral to masturbate? Yes, I'm a Christian. I told you that already. So is a OK. I already established not all Christians are against masturbation. But so do you think a child is immoral if they masturbate? It's a sin. So yes, they are moral. They're committing a sin. They're committing an immoral act. And it's my job as a parent to try to help my children not do that. So they don't go to hell, right? For masturbating. I mean, it's really more about the answers. Yes, as a Christian, the answer is yes. Well, no, that's that's like that's you're looking at it as like a what are the ends of all this? It doesn't it doesn't have to be about heaven and hell. It's just about are you living the way God intended? I really don't want to turn this into like a gold debate. So could we go over the article? OK, I just want to I think we can we're basically done here. We already know what you're going to say, which is that they weren't giving studies to they weren't giving actual masturbation assignments. All concede that it's not relevant to the debate. So then can I ask you again? What is your biggest issue with the article? Because initially you said the masturbation homework and now you're saying that that doesn't exist. So now I want to know what actually is your problem with the headline says, right, the headline says they were so you only read the headline. I'm saying that's my issue with the headline is the part where it is the key. But I'm asking about what is the big own. Oh, you didn't read the article. You're a dummy. I brought like twenty seven scientific citations here to argue and you didn't even read the article that the debate is about. Wow, you didn't read the article. Oh, God, he thinks they're teaching kids to masturbate. Not relevant to the topic. The debate topic can you explain to me how it's not relevant? Explain to me how it's not relevant. I'll explain it to you like your five. Please do under the article. I posted a video of Destiny saying that telling a child it's inappropriate to masturbate is a you responded to the video and said he's right. And I said we can debate that. Yes, but the video you posted was context to the article, right? Which you said that he would agree with the article. Such a non point. This is it's I make like major arguments about how children raised Christian have better outcomes than children raised secular and about how there's no scientific evidence for sexual reprehensible. And you just gloss over all of that and want to spend the whole time talking about whether or not I read an article correctly that has nothing to do with the topic of the debate. You're the one glossing over the article. What do you mean? I want to get into it to you that the baby. They didn't give that assignment. I don't care how it doesn't mean anything. I mean, you did say you were against sex ed. Yes, so you disagree with what the article is teaching, even though you didn't read it. You disagree with the headline teaching. Yeah, I'm against sex ed. Yeah. Hmm. So just so you know, the headline itself, what it's talking about, giving to giving to what did it say? What was the headline again? Let me see. So twelve year olds are being taught about anal sex in school while nine year olds are told to masturbate for homework. I cannot believe this got 20,000 likes. That's 20,000 people that didn't read the article, because if you actually read the article, you would know there was absolutely no homework where the teacher said, go home and masturbate kids. The homework was actually given out to a school for special needs children to list areas in their home which are private and safe for them if they want to touch their private parts. They were supposed to list places in their house. How is that fucked? That's fucked. You shouldn't be. OK, so now you know what your assignment is to tell me the best places for you to rub yourself. Oh, that makes it so much better. OK, so now you actually know what's in the article. Let's discuss it. Why is that bad? Well, that's not the government's it's not the government's job to teach kids about how about safe places to masturbate. It's not. No. No, no, no. What if the parents do a very bad job at it, which we know that they do? Actually, well, actually, the scientific evidence on sex ed is very conflicting. There's a big study that came out a couple years ago that found that that teaching sex ed actually had raised rates of teenage pregnancy. So to say that the government. There's a study on sex ed in America that found that teaching sex ed increased teenage pregnancy. No, it's the complete opposite. In America, in America, all the studies show that in the states where abstinence only sex ed is taught, there are higher cases of teen pregnancy and teen STDs in the states where they have more comprehensive sex ed. There were lower rates of teen pregnancy because there are more. There's more contraceptive use because they're all educated about it. And lower STD rates. No, not all the studies. That's what I was literally just. I didn't know we were going to argue about sex ed since that's not the debate topic, I didn't bring the study, but I'll send you the study after the debate that found that it raised teenage pregnancies. Wait, if sex ed wasn't the debate topic, what is? Abstinence teaching. Is it abuse to teach abstinence to children? So the topic of masturbation of children is not a form of sex ed. I'm confused. You really like try to get hung up on these meaningless little gotchas. It's kind of annoying, to be honest. Can we just let why don't we just I think we're done here. I'm satisfied. I'm satisfied. Are you running away? Well, no, I guess we'll move to the Q&A and then we'll call it a day because you don't want to you don't want to debate. The actual topic is the issue. I would have loved to debate the actual topic, but you didn't read the fucking article that the whole debate is about. You guys, she's retarded. She I can't. I'm sorry. I don't want to be rude, but she's literally retarded. I can't talk to this chick. I'm sorry. This may be an opportunity. Go ahead. I don't want to interrupt you, Diddley. No, it's fine. It's fine. Go ahead. This may be an opportunity to go into the Q&A. Do you want to say thanks so much for your questions? Two ways to submit questions for the Q&A. First is if you happen to have a question, you can put it in as a super chat. Those get read first, but you don't have to do it as a super chat. If you just tag me with at modern day debate in the live chat, we'll read those to time permitting. So we're going to jump in with this first question. Thanks so much, Brandon Ardeline. Let me just load this up. I want to say a couple of quick housekeeping things. Folks are guests. Diddley and I Hippocrates are linked in the description. That includes at the podcast. So if you want to hear more from our guests, you can certainly check out their social media links down in the description box and you can hear more. Brandon Ardeline says, I Hippocrates, do you think it's wrong for parents to teach their kids about sex or should they wait for the pastor to teach them the hard way? I think they're referring to sexual scandals. Yeah, very funny. Yeah, it's the parents job. The parents are the ones who should be doing that. So your volume is a little bit low. Uh, yes and no, they could have done a better job. That's interesting. I mean, this is why I'm full comprehensive sex ed. Because as you just said, parents can do a better job. Just out of curiosity. Really great. Me and my parents are like best friends. He doesn't mind that you prostitute yourself on the internet. He does he care that I do only fans? Yes. Why would my father care about what I do with my body? Well, you sort of implied you were raised Christian. Is that not I was I'm no longer Christian, obviously. And your dad's not Christian either. No, not anymore. OK, as much as I enjoy your interrogation about Diddley's personal life, I do want to jump to in the live chat. Folks, if you want to, you can vote right now on which side you found most persuasive tonight. If you're watching live over at Diddley's channel or if you're watching live at I Hippocrates channel, come on over to Modern Day Debate and you could put your vote in there as well as if you want, you can submit a question for the live chat. We have such a shy audience tonight. We actually that's the only question we've gotten so far. So, folks, this is a great opportunity if you're like, man, I never get my question answered because sometimes we run out of time. Some speakers have got to go is we got one. Lee Jam says to I Hippocrates, do you think kids raised Christian feel shame about masturbation because they are told it's shameful? Definitely, some kids raised Christian will feel shame and struggle with that aspect. We all have our struggle. Some people struggle with this. Some people struggle with other things. And yeah, obviously, some parents or some people who are teaching Christianity are nobody's perfect, right? So the people are going to make mistakes. People are going to teach it and not the best way for the kid. That's obviously something that happens and is unfortunate, but it doesn't it doesn't mean that the actual teachings are wrong like necessarily, right? There could be issues with the way that it's taught, but that's different than saying the whole thing is abuse flat out. You got it. Useless. Thanks for your simping says, can I get a date with Diddley? Wow. This one coming in from this one coming in from you don't have to answer that from every kid. I wasn't going to says, how can you teach kids to not touch themselves? If you are against sex ed, that is a great question. You say this, they say that is literally. I'm not against teaching kids about sex. I'm against the government doing it. It's the parents job. No, but that is actually a great question. If you're if you are all for you obviously don't understand anything. OK, can you let me ask the question? So if you are all for telling your children that they should not masturbate, that's not OK. It's immoral. How are you actually going to stop them from masturbating? Is it just by hopefully putting enough shame on them that they just don't want to do it? You teach them that it's something they should try not to do. They should try to avoid so that they learn self control and discipline. You don't. So what's going to happen if they don't want to try to catch them masturbating and then give them shit for it? No, this is so insane. These these kind of things you have to imply to try to get. Yeah, but what are you going to tell your child is like the negative consequences of masturbating if they do lack of self control, lack of discipline, which will lead, which is immoral and will lead to further immoral indiscretions down the road or eternal condemnation. So like that's probably a good way to scare them out of doing it. This one from Captain. I'll just repeat. I'll just repeat again. Children raised Christians have significantly better outcomes than children raised atheists. So all this what she's doing, this like, oh, you guys, you're abusive. That's not scientific. I'm the one here who brought the science. She's bringing a slander and ad hominem attacks and trying to act. When did I add hominem attack here? Well, your implication is that this is what Christians do is they abuse their children. What is the ad hominem attack? Is is that Christians are abusive? I already told you multiple times that they're not. Right. But that again, that's not logically consistent with what you said. 100 percent is I can repeat it again. Talking about the size of your mouth, which is something liberals do quite frequently. I can repeat it again if you didn't understand. So Christian families bringing up your children as Christians is not inherently abusive or harmful. There are, however, aspects of Christianity, such as purity culture, which I think are harmful and cruel to your children. I'll just say it again, Christian children have much better mental health outcomes, less substance abuse, more likely to volunteer in their communities and all these great things. So she wants to hyper focus on this idea of shame and call that because that's the topic, but raising your kids in a way that is going to make them more prone to hypersexuality, more prone to mental disorders, more prone to depression, to substance abuse, that's not abuse. That's fine. As long as they don't feel any shame. You got it. This one coming in from. Thanks so much. CB says non abstinence only has gone to but plugs. Conservative right wing sex ad is way different. And this is why the state education always corrupts because it is corrupted. Guessing is that's for you, Diddley. What even was the question? Was that just a statement? So sometimes so for the super chats, we allow people to make a statement like an objection. And so they're saying basically like in a nutshell, they're saying the state is corrupt. And my guess is that's even though technically I don't know if you really will give you a chance, Diddley, assuming that it is free. I mean, I would hope that our educators have children's best interests at heart, unlike Christian fundamentalists who just keep their children in the dark and tell them if you masturbate, you're going to go to hell. Yeah, so I think comprehensive sex ed is vital. I think it's really important as well in cases of sexual abuse. If you're teaching a child that it's immoral for them to even touch themselves, how are they ever going to come to you for any issues they're having sexually at all? So again, this is another myth that the preacher's daughter. Oh, Destiny said the same thing to me. Your daughter's not going to talk to you. Your kid's going to end up on the pole. This and that. Again, it's not scientific. Christian children are way less likely to be hyper sexualized than children raised secularly. But if they were, they would tell you about it. That's why in states with higher religiosity and abstinence only sets education, there's high rates of teen pregnancy, right? Again, I have a study that says the opposite. So there's conflicting data there. There really isn't. There is this one coming in from. I do appreciate it. Mike A. N. says snacks, education in school has literally been proven to reduce C. S. A. I think that means childhood sexual abuse. I think that's for you. Let's see. I don't know. Let's see. I'm trying to think about whether or not. Did that come up? Uh, I only just brushed on it a little bit just then. You got it. And maybe you would say that could that could possibly be true. Yeah. And obviously, why are you against? Why are you against sex ed? Well, I mean, look, this is a complicated thing, but like it's parents' job to do it. Some parents do a bad job. If all I can tell you is that if I was calling the shots, we would be executing like a thousand pedophiles a day and we'd have this whole problem solved, you know, eugenically within within one generation of me running the show. Pedophiles are really dumb. They're really easy to catch and we we could deal with this problem really effectively if we wanted to. So that's what I'll say when it comes to I will say I'm actually just said that you agree that sex education can lower the the rate of child sexual abuse. How could you possibly be against sex ed if that's the outcome? I say it's possible that that is that there is some truth to that. So let's assume it was true. Why would you be against sex ed for children in school? There's more aspects. There's more aspects to it. If it if sex ed first, I'm against sex ed because I look at the articles like that one where they're teaching anal sex and masturbation and it's like, well, this is insane. If they were just teaching kids how to not get abused and like what is appropriate interactions with adults and stuff like that, I would actually be OK with that. The problem with sex ed is they take it way too far. What do you think the purpose of sex ed is? This is such a stupid question. Is it? Yeah, to to try to like make kids have like sexual health and hygiene or whatever. OK, so educated about sex and sexuality. So we give them scientifically accurate information so that they can make informed decisions if they do choose to have sex or masturbate and we know that I don't trust you to gauge what is scientifically accurate. Because you think that masturbation is like good for you. You deny all of the science on the negative side effects of masturbation. So I don't trust you to be teaching kids about what is quote unquote scientifically. I deny the negative effects of masturbation. I don't even think he brought up any of the negative effects. So so there's I have forced by the way, somebody said I wasn't citing that I'm just making this up. So let me actually like cite the studies here. So a study called Lifetime Depression History and Sexual Function in Women and Midlife and a quote from this is Lifetime Depression History was associated with increased rates of self stimulation, sexual functioning and self reported depressive symptoms among college women. That's another study. The women with depressive symptoms reported greater desire for sexual activity alone, masturbation, than the non depressed women. Personality correlates of male, sexual or arousal and behavior results indicate that both introversion and depression show significant correlations with auto erotic stimulation and arousal, but not with heterosexual activity. And then I have a whole bunch of other studies about erectile dysfunction and masturbation or physiological issues for women. Like it's harder for women to get aroused if they masturbate at higher frequencies. So there's stuff like that. There's also the flip side to it, which is like the supposed benefits of semen retention, which is like higher testosterone and higher fertility rates to be sure we I don't mean to cut you off, but just because we've got a lot of questions and everybody. Well, I'm going to move through quick. Thank you very much for your question. Good gas, I just quickly say something. I just have to finish my thought here just to finish the whole point here, which is that you can't go around teaching people that masturbation is fine and normal and good and healthy and there's nothing wrong with it and do it as much as you want, as long as you're doing it in private. When the scientific evidence tells us that there's all these risks associated with it. And I just asked, so you said you have all these studies where people who were more depressed show that they more frequently masturbated. Do you think that that means that the masturbation itself is causing the depression? Is that the connection you're making? It's not necessarily, but it is. It's a very strange thing because we also know that depression lowers libido. Depression makes you less interested in sex. It also makes you seek out dopamine rich activity. It makes you less interested in engaging in any activity at all. So it is a sort of the fact of the matter is we don't we don't really necessarily understand the relationship between masturbation and depression. But we just know there's a link between those things. Just like there's a link for sleep and depression, but we wouldn't say because people who are high in depression are also high in the number of hours they sleep at night, we wouldn't say, oh, sleep is causing depression. Sleep is harmful. Well, no, but we say sleeping too much is harmful and we do say yes. And we say masturbating too much is harmful as well. This one coming in from do you want to at least acknowledge that part? OK, cool. Mashed 3 3 3. Thanks for your first ever super chat. Let me know if you meant to attach a question to it. I didn't see it, but I'll keep an eye on the chat. Tope. So Tyria says she keeps saying Christianity isn't abusive, but says things that are core to Christianity are abusive, like telling kids that masturbation is bad. I disagree that that is core to Christianity. This one from Gassings. Never. OK, I don't know for you. This is let me go back before I read there. Insignificant Nick says, for I hypocrite, why did you call Diddley the R word and run away? Did you think this would be a walk in the park simply because she has an O F? Ostrich farm. Yeah, this is this is my come up and so I really got school today. This one from let me just vet this one. They say I've just got here. Has Lord testosterone rates been mentioned? Has Lord birth rates been mentioned? I just mentioned testosterone and fertility. Those are both associated with semen retention, so not necessarily not masturbating, but not ejaculating at all. I take all that with a grain of salt. I don't think that's really like that's certainly not the core to my argument. Those are just I would hurt not because of fear. You know, losing testosterone through losing semen, wouldn't you be against having sex altogether as well? Well, yeah, basically, so I don't really care about those aspects of it, but they are you did bring it up there, didn't you? Yeah, I did. I did note that right. So if you masturbate to mass elite, like at least having sex, you know, with your wife in a marriage, at least there's a point to that. I'm like, I mean, there's a point to mass spending as well. It feels great. This one coming in from appreciate it. Did we get this one? Yeah, we got that one. Let me just double check this new one. That guy over there says, what makes I hypocrite think that he has the knowledge to decipher these studies in the first place by just quoting some out of context snippets? If somebody would I would love for somebody to show me how I'm wrong. I mean, just by just assuming that I'm wrong doesn't make any sense. I read the studies and I interpret them. If you want to show if you want to argue that I'm somehow interpreting them wrong, that's fine, but that's not what that person's doing. They're just they're just saying I'm too dumb to make my own interpretations. This one argument. This one coming in from I wait. CBZC first says I hypocrite. Could you please steelman Didley's position? I mean, it sounds insane when you say it out loud. But her position is that if you tell your child they should exercise self control and not just be a slave to their base primal desires. You're abusing your child. That's her position. This one from Rashad Abdul Salam says, Didley, you said, quote, encouraging masturbation is weird. Can you give a comprehensive explanation why encouraging it would be weird? I think they mean like if it's good for you, like, why is it bad to encourage it? I just think it's weird because you don't need to go out of your way to tell a child like, hey, go harm and jack off, you know, like they're going to be doing it anyway, they don't need any kind of encouragement. I think as sex educators or as parents, we should simply be giving them the tools and the knowledge so that they can do so safely. We're not necessarily saying you should masturbate. We're saying if you do masturbate or have sex, here's how you do so safely. But a lot of the education, hold on, a lot of the education does say that it feels good and you yourself would say that it feels good. You deny that it feels good. Orgasm, yes, it feels good to orgasm, but is that not a form of encouragement, tacitly? Telling a kid, hey, if you touch yourself here, it's going to feel good. Are they not going to be more likely to do it? It's not overtly encouraged, encouraging them. Like I said, you're not saying, go ahead and it's not overtly encouraging them. It's tacitly, though. You are tacitly encouraging them to do it when you. OK, this one coming in from do appreciate it. Oh, wait, just to clarify on that last one. So maybe this would clarify for them. I think they interpreted it as that you were saying that masturbation was salubrious or a fancy way of saying like good for your health. But if I understand right, you're saying, well, I'm not saying like we ought to encourage it because it's good for your health. I'm saying like we don't have to encourage it because it's neutral for your health. Is that it? I mean, I think it can be good for you. It can be a positive thing in your life, for sure. We know that it can increase body image, self image. We know that it can improve sexual satisfaction when you do have sex with a partner. So there definitely are benefits to doing it. But I think what's more important is that we should just let children decide if they want to do it or not. We shouldn't have a say in whether or not a child can or if they're allowed to touch their own bodies. You got it. This one from I vote kick TV says highest rates of teen pregnancy and STD rates among girls 15 to 19. Five are states without mandated sex ad, in particular, Arizona, Mississippi, Texas, Florida and Arkansas. So I think they're saying that if there isn't a sex ad, it plausibly leads to more of these things that I have procreate. You would consider socially ill or bad. There's conflicting data on sex ad. Like I said, I have a study. I'll try to find it. Let's see it. Let's see it. Yeah. Keep going. I'll try to find it. Ruffin ready says, please ask if you have if you child, if your child has a question that you don't know the answer, how should they find out the answer? Oh, I found it. I found the study. Look, there's a study titled sort of interrupt, but there's a study study titled the impact of sex education mandates on teenage pregnancy, international evidence. This is from April 24th, 2020. And it says. Taken together changes in national laws related to sexual health are unable to go up. We find some evidence that laws mandating sex education in schools are associated with higher rates of teenage fertility. It's from the stuff. Fertility, pregnancy, fertility, same thing. I don't think it's the same thing. Well, they mean pregnancy. It says in the title, pregnancy. This one coming in from. Go ahead. I don't want to cut you short. Oh, I just wanted the link to the article it's on. Go on. I put the link in the chat there. This one from Lee Jam says to I have a great what if the parents don't teach kids anything about sex ed, such as mine? Wouldn't you rather have education experts teach them we weren't taught? And I wish we had been. I'm not actually diametrically opposed to sex ed. I just think what we have now goes way too far. So that's the problem. I think a really basic sex ed about how to not get sexually abused, which you would actually want to teach that to fairly young children. And you do it in a kind of an age-appropriate way. You know, here's the doll. Don't touch. Don't let somebody touch you here on the doll. That kind of thing. I'm in favor of that kind of thing. You think school should teach that? I'm not in favor of like telling high school kids like, hey, if you if you push on your rectum, it feels good. Like this is not necessary. This one coming in from. We get this one Lee Jam. Docinator says for the first super chatter, this is the one about that pastors or whatever it was, priests would teach kids about sex the hard way. If parents don't, they said, I'm afraid the evidence is different than they say. Gone claves at all. 2023 recent meta analysis says religiosity is actually inversely related to sexual aggression. Did they know that the science debunks their view? And OK. Maybe look, let's let me just see if we've got a question for you guys. Per se, Janice Walker says LP talks about the wood chipper a lot, but he is on cozy, a network run by someone who joked slash. I don't know if I want to read this. Folks, I just don't want to get into legal trouble. So I don't know what's true. Oh, but I can't. Modern day debate gets into like sketchy territory. If we let's see. Network run by someone who. There's a lawsuit going on. Well, no, no, no, it's not a there's not a lawsuit on me as of yet, because I am really careful about who we read about. I know that Internet got like the Internet usually you just say whatever you want about people, but I do want to be careful about that. This one coming in from. So I don't know what's true about that. So I don't want to say something that if the person who runs cozy has done what this person is saying, I don't want to read it out loud. I don't know what's true. CTO one G.G. says, for I hypocrite, give us the verse for the Bible talks about masturbation also is personally attacking your opponent of valid debate tactic. No, and I probably should have done that. I apologize, but there's also a point where debate falls apart if you can't actually get stayed relevant to the topic and you just want to get some own about, oh, he didn't read the article. It doesn't matter if I read the article or not. It's not relevant to the action. No, it doesn't matter. Really, it means nothing. It means the fact that you don't understand how irrelevant it is is why I called you the word that I called you. Well, I apologize for that. This one coming in from you guys have such great chemistry. This one from CTO one G.G. Oh, we got that one. This one new one from doc and doc and eight or again says, but if M is good for your health, why not encourage it? I think there's it's like a they're pressing for consistency of like, if you encourage, I don't know, exercise, then why not encourage M if it is healthy? Yeah. Well, she already admitted that she's okay with tacitly encouraging it. I just want to say to me, it speaks to a lack of conviction and sort of a cognitive dissonance that you have. We're like, oh, well, that would be weird. It would be weird if we told them they should masturbate, but we also definitely shouldn't tell them that they shouldn't masturbate. I'm saying, I don't think you need this. I'm saying, I don't think you need to encourage them because they're doing it anyway. Well, you said it would be weird. And they will do it even if you tell them not to. You you understand that it's weird to encourage children to masturbate. You at least you understand that much. I'll give you the last word, didly, because the original question is for you and then we'll jump to the next one. Oh, so we're not going to a new question yet? If you if you have any last word, because the original question was aimed at you. I want to give you the last word. Yeah, like I said, I don't I don't think we need to encourage them to masturbate. I just think we need to give them the tools they need to understand what is going on with their body around puberty, especially. And we need them to know how to do so safely. So if you call that encouraging them, then sure. This one from Mola says, do parents have the right to sex add their kids? And they say, or is it the state's right? On what basis do you make a decision like that? I think that's for you, didly, but I'm not. They didn't say, of course, parents have a right to educate their kids. I wish that we could rely on parents to educate their kids about sex. But as we all know, they are horrible at it. Most like, I mean, probably some of you watching or a lot of you watching never even had the talk with their parents. Some parents just want to avoid the topic altogether, because it's too awkward. A lot of people don't like to talk about this topic, because it's too awkward. So I think it's necessarily necessary that they have comprehensive sex ed in schools. You got it. And let me just double check here. Mr. Kreenen, longtime viewer, thanks for being with us. Says, I hypocrite, did you ever study the APA's stance on this? In particular, they mean masturbation, I think, in kids. Whether or not it's, I don't know if they mean teaching kids to abstain from masturbation or just kids in masturbation in general. They say, no, did you ever study the human sexuality studies? Did you? And they say, no. And then did you ever read the Demos's history of childhood? Question mark, no. Yes. So this this is a hilarious thing where it's like, don't you know what the experts say? So the research you're supposed to do is what do the experts say? And then that's supposed to be the end. You're not supposed to ask yourself, why do they say that? What are they basing it off of? How did they reach those conclusions? Which is when you go and look at the actual science and see what it says and whether or not those conclusions are supported by the research data. That's what I did. I went and read the studies so I could reach my own conclusions. You got it. This one coming in from, you see, I know we had more that I had earlier come in. So sorry, folks, if I didn't get to write down your question, if you have a question and it didn't get asked, you've got maybe 10 more minutes, we'll say nine more minutes. If you have a question that you want to fire in and that we didn't get to read yet. Otherwise, I do want to remind you, our guests are linked in the description, including at the podcast, if you haven't yet, check out our guest links down below. You can hear more of their views, more of their positions and also want to encourage you, folks, if you haven't yet, hit that subscribe button. We have many more debates coming up and you don't want to miss them. This one from Janice Walker says, let's see. You see, my Super Chat is public record, Google Allie Ackbar and Nick Funtas. I just, the only thing about me is, let's see, they say, I don't really have time to go through and like look at legal records or like look up legal convictions or whatever it might be. So I just, you know, I haven't deleted your Super Chat. It's still there if people like want to see it, but I I'm not, I don't like care to read something where I'm like, I don't know what is the case. You know, some people have this weird derangement syndrome when it comes to Nick and they're so obsessed about it that they'll follow anybody who is just a cozy streamer and try to like make it all about Nick. It's kind of sad and pathetic behavior. Melissa says, Nick, why don't you take that shit to him if you got a problem with him? They say they want to know what your thought about Allie is. Who's Allie? I haven't even heard of Allie. Allie Ackbar is a gay brown pedophile, and my advice is to stay away from gay brown pedophiles. That's my position on that. I hypocrite going on record, not me. Isomartel says, what should kids do with the hormones God created them with? Adults can abstain with difficulty, but kids can't. Do you support teen marriage? Do I support teen marriage? Yeah, that was a question for you. Sure. Brows based. You were just going on about how you hate pedophiles and stuff, or do you just mean underage people getting married together? I think that, you know, the guy could be a bit older. If you're talking about like a 20 year old now marrying a 16 year old girl and the parents are involved with it and everything like that, I don't think that's I don't think that's bad. This one coming in. I do. OK. Mola said that they didn't go ahead any more. Interrupt. No, I just find it interesting that you've mentioned, you know, pedophilia a few times in this debate, how much you despise and want to kill pedophiles and then you say something like that. Yeah, well, so to be clear, a 20 year old man should definitely not be having premarital sex with a 16 year old girl. That wouldn't be technically. But they should be getting married and then having sex. Is that what you think? Yes. Yes, that's what I think. This one coming in from do appreciate it. Mola says, I still didn't get part of my question answered. Who makes the decision if it's the states or the parents right to educate? Is this for me? I think they both have the right. Gotcha. I kind of answered this earlier. Like, I wish that parents alone could educate their kids, but we know that they're horrible at it. So we have to rely on schools to do it. You got it. And then Redhammer has asked repeatedly, where is Diddly's link? It's always in the description box. Of course, you can find both of our guests linked below. Thanks for becoming a channel member, Gabber Piat. Appreciate your support. We do have channel memberships, folks. We don't talk about it often. We're trying to get in the habit of talking about it more often. Check out our channel memberships. If you haven't yet, you can use those based in Redpilled custom emoticons to call your friends in chat, Soyboy and many other things. This one from Hand1Capt Kangaroo says, I hypocrite, how much does the Bible affect your stance? But I'm definitely on Team Diddly. How much does the Bible affect my stance? That's the question. That's right. I would say less than you think, which is why I tried to sort of downplay this whole thing of like, you're going to hell if you do this, those words she tried to put in my mouth. There's plenty. You could you could do this whole thing secularly. I just happen to believe the Bible. And when it comes to the moral aspects of it, it's the Bible is clear. So did I put those words in your mouth? Do you believe that people who masturbate are going to hell? You sort of tried to is what I'm saying. Yeah, you tried to put those words in my mouth. So do you believe that it's a moral to masturbate? And therefore you'll go to hell if you're a masturbator. I believe it's a moral. I don't have strong opinions on heaven and hell. OK, as a fundamentalist Christian. What does that mean, fundamentalist? How am I a fundamentalist? I don't I don't think it's fundamentalist to be against pleasure seeking, sexual pleasure seeking for the sake of pleasure seeking. That's not a fundamentalist position. To be a bit against masturbation is a pretty like extreme religious stance. No, the problem is you don't you don't seem to understand that you can think that something is wrong, but not have to freak out because somebody does it anyways. You know what I mean? Like, like just because you acknowledge that people shouldn't do something doesn't mean you go around telling, oh, how could you do that? You're so bad. You're such a bad person. You just like, no, hey, you shouldn't do that. That's not good for you. It's not moral. Shouldn't do that because it's a sin, right? And sin is good to hell, right? It can be a lot more chill than the way you're trying to paint it. So I'm saying this one, this one from Rashad Abdul Salam says, Diddley, if schools started encouraging child masturbation, would you speak out against the quote unquote weirdness of the school's encouragement? If they literally said to the children like kids, like like the article that you didn't read suggested, but it wasn't true whatsoever. If they said to the kids, I want you to go home and I want you to, you know, graphic details. I want you to masturbate. I would think that is weird. This one from lamb dog says, oh, my God, never mind. That's not any last ones in the old live chat. Skimming over here. Ozone, McGregor. Does James have only fans? Thank you. I appreciate you asking. That's the only time anyone's ever asked. Oh, bless your heart. OK, this one coming in rough. Let's see. Looking around here. Oh, Mr. Kreenin. Mr. Kreenin has it in for you. I Hippocrates coming for you. Let's see. They say I Hippocrates. Let's be honest. If you really cared about this subject, you'd have studied this professionally to be able to work in counseling and actually do anything at all to help. I mean, that's that's nonsense. That's preposterous. You you can't care about something unless you dedicate your whole life to it. Hey, buddy, you destroyed me. Oh, you got me. I don't actually care until I dedicate my whole life to stopping kids from masturbating. But it does sound like as the debate has gone on, your stance on sex ed and the seriousness of masturbation has kind of mellowed a bit. That's kind of the vibe I'm getting. Well, no, hang on. You're the one who thinks it's abuse, right? So you're the one who's actually like, like hysterical about this issue. I'm the one. It's not hysterical. And it's it's always been that way. That is hysterical to call it abuse. Yeah, I mean, like I mentioned, they're varying degrees. Teaching abstinence abuse is hysterical. I think making. I'm the chill one. You're the one freaking out, clutching your pearls and screaming that I think. Shaming a child from masturbating is abuse. Yes. Yeah. Shaming a child from masturbating is abuse. Yes. So so don't don't, you know, get it straight. Hmm. With that. Yeah, get it straight. I'm the chill one. You're the one who's hysterical. You're the chill one. I mean, literally your first reply to me on Twitter was calling me a prostitute. Your energy from the time we first interacted to now. Boom. OK, certainly have chemistry. But we want to say my dear friend, my position. You are a prostitute. OK, and. Juicy, to say the least, we do want to say. That's right. Well, OK. I'm like, all of a sudden, I'm so energized and like this is so so I don't want to go because I just I'm enjoying this time. Like I'm so curious to hear your opinions on it. Yeah, James, is it is it Christian to teach abstinence? Or is that like crazy fundamentalist? Well, let's see. I don't I don't really. The only thing I want to jump in is I don't want to take sides on anything that you guys have debated because I always like. We're all about like, hey, modern day Bayes, so. Consider the debate. You'll have to damn me later. Damn me in position. But I really feel. But I am curious about the last topic that came up is that I hypocrite endearingly called diddly a prostitute. And I hypocrite or I should say diddly was like so. Like what's wrong with being a prostitute? Like sex workers are. I think that maybe that's your position. I don't want to speak for you, but I'm. So I don't know. That's. Is it the case? This is something I was thinking about to myself the other day. I was like, are only fans, workers? I mean, like if prostitutes defined, I'm not trying to put you on the spot, but it probably sounds like. No, it's fine. But I but you would probably say I want to give you a chance to respond to that because sometimes I hypocrite has been his charming self. Name calling tonight, including calling you a prostitute. I want to give you a chance to robot or, you know, if you want to call him, you know, you know, a name, whatever it is. But I mean, go ahead. If we're if we're going to go by the actual definition of a prostitute, which is someone who gets paid to have sex for money, I don't I'm not a prostitute. I just don't care about sexist names. People call me. So I just say, OK. And the definition on Google says if you're paid for engaging in sexual activity, right? So it's not any sexual act. OK, so that's the definition on Google. If you look at it, OK. Well, so you agree by that, you agree that you engage in sexual activity for payment, right? Well, yes, OK. I do only fans. So by that, by the Google definition, you're literally a prostitute. OK. And. And you should. What does that have to do with the argument we're having? The debate, nothing, nothing, but you should stop. You should. It's not good to be a prostitute. Why? I want to jump into this question. We got a couple of quick ones come in. CTO one, G.G. says, I hypocrite. Is it chill to call someone the R word because you're losing? So I wasn't losing. I got frustrated because she couldn't understand the basic concept of relevancy. That's not you got frustrated because you didn't read the article before you started this. That's why I'm not relevant. This one. This one coming in from Mar squeeze as diddly is is destroying the hypocrite with facts and logic. Good job, girl. Oh, thank you. Look at I hypocrite over there. I mean, he's soaking in the corner. Well, what can men do in the face of such reckless simpary? How far here folks at thirty three percent done says, welcome to thanks for becoming a channel member is thirty three percent done. Does there is there a meaning to that? Is it internet slang? What was that is thirty three percent done? Is that internet slang? What does that mean? I hypocrite, I know you know what it means. I don't know. I don't know what that means. Is that like a white supremacy dog whistle or something? I'm frankly, no, that wasn't what I was thinking per se. I was wondering if it was something naughty, but they haven't told me. Maybe they'll tell us in chat. Maybe they'll enlighten me. I'm a boomer, as they say. So I don't know the what's the new word for cool. It's not on fleek anymore. Is it I hypocrite? Is that what you say? Well, yeah, no, we say every one. The kids love saying on fleek. OK, this is what he doesn't want to say it. Fischotto says LPW as usual. NJF haters cope and see. OK, I think that was NJF. That's I know this one. I think that means Nicholas J. Fentes. Is that what it means? Must. Yes. Captain Kaz. Thanks for teaching me to all these. Captain Casaks says, let's see. Says I hypocrite. We'll give you a while. I should hold up one last. This the topes, Oteria says the debates on what destiny said, not the report. Exactly. That you related. That's clear, both from the title of the stream and the context of how. No, no, no, you related the clip of destiny to the article. You related the clip of destiny to the article, saying that he would support what is in the article. No, right. If you wanted to debate the article, you should have clarified that before we started so that the debate title would be different from what it is. Do you deny that the clip you presented of destiny has nothing to do with the article? It has basically nothing. Yes, I use I use the article as an excuse to dunk on destiny. Yeah, but they're not really related to each other, saying that it's abuse to tell someone not to masturbate is not the same as giving somebody a homework assignment to masturbate. I know what I did. I know that those things are not the same. I did it anyways, because I don't. We could establish that there was no homework assignment to masturbate as well. That's still what the headline said, though. Yes, but I read the article and you didn't. This one. DGFO. Mr. Meepus 97. I think this will be our last one. I appreciate you guys doing this at this time of day or night. And they say for I have a crit. So from what I understand, you're saying children should be taught self-control, yet you couldn't control yourself. Why is that? Are they saying you're a chronic masturbator? What do they mean by that? I don't know what they're saying, I don't know what they're saying. Or do they really know what you were in the past? You're a look at him. What's the word? Michael Hardy says. I hypocrite, explain how the article you cited about teen pregnancy even supports your argument. Do you understand it? Team Diddley in all caps. So the so the article said that there was evidence that mandating sexual education can result in higher rates of teen pregnancy. So it's conflicting data about sex ed. It's not super relevant to the debate topic, but we got off in the weeds about sex ed, which is why that really isn't conflicting. Dada, you just managed to find one article over the countless other articles that show that states that have higher religiosity and only teach abstinence, only sex education have high rates of teen pregnancy and teen STDs, states that actually teach comprehensive sex ed have low rates of teen pregnancy. Yeah, that doesn't necessarily like you're you're the one who's all go correlation causation that it's not necessarily the sex add that is the reason for those statistics. That's the point. What do you think could better explain? It could be demographic issues. There's all kinds of possible explanations. Yeah, like religiosity. Race that that would tie into race. Could you think the more like the I don't really know much about the US race distribution. But what were the states like Mississippi, Texas. Arkansas, Mississippi, for example, has a lot of black people. So and I think black people have higher rates. This isn't like me just being racist. I pretty much guarantee if you look it up, black people have higher rates of teen pregnancy than white people. So so you think it's more likely that there is more teen pregnancy factors. You can't draw really strong conclusions from these loose correlations. Sure, but you think it's more likely that it's because of race and not because of sex ed. I would have to look at the demographics to have a strong opinion on it. I'm just saying that is one potential confounder. This one from Issa Martell. Wow, getting personal here. Say, did I hypocrite do it when he was young? Oh, of course he did. Everyone does. I did. Yes, I have. I don't feel guilty about it. Do you feel shame? Like ashamed? I wasn't raised Christian. So no, I never felt guilty or ashamed about it. Do you feel ashamed now? I don't do it anymore. But do you feel ashamed that you did? No. No. This one coming in from I guess it would be if I regret anything. It's I regret that I didn't have better guidance so that I had a stronger sense of morality back then. But I wouldn't call it shame. It would have been nice to have a better moral upbringing. Yeah. There, let's see. We got to go. We're past time and it's 940 here and I have to wake up early. So I wish we could keep going asking about people's habits or past habits. We want to say thank you folks for tuning in. We hope you feel welcome. Modern Day Debate is a neutral platform hosting debates on science, religion and politics. And our vision is that everybody would have their chance to make their case on a level playing field. So thanks for being with us tonight. And thanks especially to our guests, Didly and I Hippocrates. It's been a true pleasure to have you. Thank you for having me. Here, thanks guys. It's been amazing. So we'll see you next time, folks. I'm going to do like a 30-second post-credits scene where I say hello to you all in chat. And with that, thanks so much, folks. Stick around. I'll be back in about 22 seconds. Okay, so muted the whole time. What I was saying is this. Thank you guys for your support. Stoked to have you here. If you enjoy controversial topics like this, I want to encourage you, consider becoming a channel member. Seriously, we really do appreciate that support. We are working on building Modern Day Debate to make it bigger and better than ever. Every day we're working on improving. So I want to say thank you guys for all of your support. If you love that this is a debate platform that is not only neutral, in other words, we're like, hey, whatever your opinion is on this, we'll give you a fair shot for a debate. We're not going to come out with an after show that says, oh, so and so did so bad, or we're not going to put out a video that makes the case for or against XYZ instead. If a view is represented on Modern Day Debate, you bet the opposing view is going to be as well. And we want to say, not only that, not only do we care about giving everybody their fair shot, which you could say is one of our values, but also we want to have freedom that people can talk about what they want. Controversial topics like this one tonight, if you're like, wow, like, hey, they hosted it. Controversial. If this channel's not here tomorrow morning, you know why. Actually, this one's not too controversial. We've done even more controversial. And that's why I would say if you like finding a channel that's actually willing to have those controversial topics that you're not going to see on the mainstream media, hey, consider becoming a channel member. It really does mean a lot. It really helps support us as we strive to make Modern Day Debate a better channel every day. And that is something for real, I do every day. Right now I'm working on my dissertation and it's grueling, but every single morning I make time to work on Modern Day Debate stuff because I'm pumped about it. We appreciate all your support. We hope you feel welcome here. It's an eclectic community. And I want to say hello to you there in the old live chat before telling you about our final value. So, Night Vision Society, stoked that you were here. Ipso facto, glad you came by. Mr. Kreenin, good to see you again. As well as Robert Schindel, the third. Thanks for coming by. Hendrick Nonody. Thanks for coming by. Jim Johnson, glad you're here. Chick Meggione. Am I saying it right? Thanks for your channel membership support. Seriously, lambdog. Thanks for coming by. David Muller, thanks for coming by. Says James, I've got a question. A lot of messages were filtered. Is there a reason for that? Did I use incorrect phrases? YouTube has its own algorithm where, depending on what the word is, it just won't show. So, if you put in, like, frankly, I don't know if the word even masturbate. I don't know if that's going to make it through. So, if you put it, like, now I'm just thinking. It's so anyway, long story short. Yeah, it's the algorithm, it's not me. I haven't deleted a single chat. It's really rare. It's got to be really bad for me to delete something. Robert Montgomery, thanks for coming by. Night Vision Society, happy to have you. Lee Jam, thanks for your kind words. Says, doing a great job, MDD. Thanks so much, that means a lot. Mike A.N., thanks for coming by. I see you there in the old live chat. Leo Whitmer, thanks for coming by. Says, any chance you will up the political debates as the 2024 election rolls around? 100%. I guarantee it, political content is hotter on political years, or I should say election years, so we are definitely going to increase it in 2024. We do want to increase it in the meantime, and it's just a little bit tougher because the big one of which presidential candidate would be better is, at this far out, it's not as enticing for people. And a lot of times people are surprised that political topics, surprisingly, I like them, but they don't always actually engage our audience the most. For example, a debate on abortion. Surprisingly, that doesn't do as well as people would expect, because a lot of times people are like, oh, James, I bet that one as well, it's controversial, it gets people fired up, it's like, yeah, but I don't know, maybe just because it's been done a million times everywhere else, I'm not sure. But yeah, we will, nonetheless, we will persist with more political content in 2024, and probably we'll try to start working on it even earlier because we do need that variety. Thanks for your kind words. Kim and 94 says, good work, modernated debate. Appreciate that, seriously. Cognition says, yo, fax, best debate channel. Thanks so much for your kind words, that means a lot. And, like I said, I've got to go, it's getting late. Yeah, I hate to go, guys, but do want to say thanks for your support. Warren Steen, thanks for coming by, says bye, James. Megan, thanks for coming by, I should say, Meg, thanks for coming by, as well as Hendrik Nanadi, as well as DJSLKDGES, thanks for coming by. And, Joe Lito, good to see ya. Car Fear, thanks for coming by, am I saying it right? Ben Yush Run, thanks for dropping in, Ben. Shadow332, thanks for coming by, says very entertaining, thank you, thank you, appreciate that. Marz Squeeze says, bravo, modernated debate, thanks for your kind words. And then last but not least, our value is competition. You know, you can have too much of anything, right? So it's true, like you guys probably know it, if you have too much water, even that's bad for you. Do you know that? Of course you did. If you work out too much, that's bad for you. If you sleep too much, no joke, that's bad for you. Virtually anything in excess is bad for you. So pretty interesting. Consider this, is it possible that our society has got so hung up on politeness to the point where it's actually gone too far? Like, conceptually, is that ever something that people have kind of like realized? Like, oh, yeah, I suppose that's, I mean, it's possible. Like, anything in excess can be bad. And maybe our culture is kind of obsessed with politeness to where if you have a politically incorrect topic, like even tonight's debate topic, some people will get bent out of shape. I think so. And not only that, but I think a lot of times, competition is like, oh, competition is bad. You should just be deferential, defer to the other person. Don't make any choices, don't assert yourself. Just take a back seat. Don't be competitive. It's like, what? No, I disagree. I think competition, obviously it can be done wrong and it itself could be done too much. But the right amount, the sweet spot is good for people. It's good for people to press themselves and be challenged, for example. Likewise, like I said, in terms of politeness, if we're so obsessed with everything has to be so nice and everything has to be so polite, it's almost like, here's an analogy and to be fair, I wanna give credit to Jonathan Haidt for the analogy. It's kind of like, there was an interesting phenomenon. What happened before was in public schools, they were finding that there was an increase in peanut allergies, which is weird. Then they found what it might be, is that after a while, a lot of schools were like, oh, hey, you shouldn't have peanuts in public schools because kids might be allergic. And somehow, that seemed to, it seems that like a little bit of exposure to a potential allergen is actually, it helps keep an allergen from becoming bigger. I'd have to go back and read the exact details from Jonathan Haidt on this. He's a psychologist, I'm trying to remember where it was. He's at a business school. I think it's an Ivy League school too. But he talked about how if you keep peanuts away from people completely, peanut allergies actually go up, which is ironic because you wouldn't think that. In a way, it's like if you make society so polite, like, oh, you have to like smooth over everything. Nobody can have any sort of rough edges. You can't be politically incorrect. The ironic thing is it doesn't make people stronger, it makes them weaker. It's good to have somebody say, I disagree with you and maybe they say, your religion is false or your lack of religion is false or whatever. But it's probably good in some way when people disagree with you, that you just practice learning how to handle it and letting it not get under your skin. That's a good thing. So I wanna say thanks for your support though. And that's like, it's like that with anything. If you work at making yourself better, you can do it in virtually any way. And for real, you really can. And an example of that is, somebody says something offensive, cognitive behavioral therapy or basically just redirecting your thoughts. So for example, if somebody says, James, your view is false. And it's like, eh, instead of getting triggered, if I just say, yeah, someone disagrees with me, what else is new? Learning to have that water off the duck's back type of attitude or thinking style, like you can practice it and get better at it and you can handle more crap. You'd be surprised how many emails I get. Ugh, my James, you're doing modern day debate wrong. You have to do it this way. And it's just like, well, just the way it is. I can't let it get to me. I don't wanna be a soy boy, okay? So I wanna say thanks for your support. David Muller says, James, can I ask what you're studying? I am studying industrial organizational psychology, which is a really long and unnecessarily fancy way of saying the psychology of work, roughly. I'm almost like a doctor for an organization or a business. So it is, there's a lot of overlap with management. But yeah, I wanna say thank you guys for your support. I have so much to learn though, even though I'm at the, I'm basically in the dissertation phase, I'm working on something that is the last step of my doctorate and I just have so much to learn. So wanna say thank you guys for coming by. See, Robert Schindels says, James, yeah, generally you would trust experts since they actually know what they're talking about. Not sure what you think you're mocking. I'm not actually saying that, I've never had a message of like, you shouldn't trust experts. So I'm not sure what you're talking about. I think that you might have, I don't know if you're, are you talking to someone in chat named James? Is there another James? Cause I don't like, I think like, you should certainly consider experts when you're making decisions like it's good to know what they think. So I actually am not like anti-expert or anything. Should at least be a piece of your epistemological puzzle. What I was saying though is in the instance, if you're talking about peanut allergies, I don't know if it is actually that the experts would say you shouldn't have peanuts at all in school. I never actually said that. So I think you might have just misunderstood exactly what I was saying. I was saying more that if you try to wipe out any particular challenge that somebody has with something, there's a good way in which they, it's almost like that part of their brain starts to atrophy. So let's say they're the part of their brain of like dealing with people who disagree with them and tell them that they're wrong. That's just gonna be the way the world always works. And when we try to make society hyper polite and we try to say, oh, you know, don't be politically incorrect and say that like your view is the only one. It's like, what? This is ridiculous. Like people can learn, like it's good for people to be able to get used to handling people disagreeing with them. So I think you, maybe you're talking to somebody else in chat though. So I don't know if you understood what I was saying or if you're maybe talking to somebody else. I wanna say thank you guys for your support. I love you. Thanks for your support. Your channel membership support Brian Williams as James. Thanks for your kind words. Appreciate that. A hunky version of Abraham Lincoln. That's very kind, I appreciate that. But this is, let's see. Mr. Green says, what do you think of the horizontal organizational ideology someone close to me did her doctorate on the topic in psychology of educational management? I haven't really studied it per se and the siloing, roughly speaking of, I don't wanna see siloed, but the specializations of all the different things, I don't really have a strong opinion on it. I think it, yeah, I mean, it certainly seems like it's doable. Whether or not, like, how easy it is, I don't know, I have no idea. Well, I wanna say thank you guys for your support. Appreciate your love and support. Thank you guys for hitting that like button. Thanks for your subscribing to the channel. It means a lot. I will see you at the next one, which is actually tomorrow. I gotta get that thumbnail, that event up. So I wanna say thanks guys for your support. Keep shifting all the reasonable from the unreasonable and we'll see you next time on Modernated Bait. Amazing.