 1130 how we doing today doing good? Yeah, I want everyone to stand up real quick I know you're I know you're sitting down, but we got lunch coming up when everyone to stand up with us real quick And I want everyone to do three things with me today. The first thing I want you to say is just engage Say engage. I want you to say the second one. I want you to say I am powerful And lastly I am impactful Wonderful, thank you 1130. We're gonna get you guys going go ahead and take a seat in less We don't want to see in the crowd here in less You're an entrepreneur or investor entrepreneurs and investors stay standing for us today. We want to make sure we can Tailor the presentation for you all today. Wow. We've got a lot in the eyes Okay, amazing and all the investors take a seat if you're an entrepreneur stay standing Okay Amazing if you're both stay standing and raise your hand Amazing. Okay. Well wonderful. Go ahead and take a seat. Thank you so much for engaging with us today My name is Kevin Edwards. I'm the host of the real leaders podcast and just looking at the crowd that is Lindsey Smalling in the crowd today by chance She's I think she texted me. She's not gonna make it. She's not it's like it's like when you make a jump shot You look at your parents in the crowd. They're not there That's that's how it is. Well, well that story with Lindsey She was actually my first interview of the really is podcast seven years ago And we had a camera we had a microphone and we had an idea and that idea was Could we make money if we went out and interviewed social entrepreneurs and brought their success stories to life To inspire purposeful careers. We sent emails out to about a hundred CEOs And we finally got a yes, and that was Lindsay Smalling Seven years ago great segue into this podcast. We just want to welcome you all to the 806 episode of the real leaders podcast I'm your host Kevin Edwards and alongside me today folks We have Sandy Moore the chief impact officer and managing director at a band capital We have a lane Rasperson. Yeah, go ahead John DeFlasso, Sandy These are all of our really is impact collaborative founding members You have a lane Rasperson the founder and CEO of social impact now And last but not least we have John Deniston the co-founder of in in chair of shared acts Please give John a warm round of applause And today folks, we're gonna help you do one of the hardest things in the human species You know what that is. We're gonna help you turn a no That's right into a yes. So let's start off with Miss Sandy Moore here in Sandy. Yeah You've been on the podcast a few times Yes, and you know that the last question we asked everyone the real leaders podcast is what is your definition of a real leader? Gotta tell you Sandy There's never been one answer that's been the same which says a lot about leadership It's right now for you for someone who's raised the fund someone who has been the receiving end of that Investment side What are some of the key? Leership qualities someone needs to know in order to get a no into a yes Kevin, you know the list could contain 760 variations of things But from experience I got a little bit of that On both sides of the table I chose to talk about for today with with our audience and and these these are From my experience being both an investor at Advantage Capital, that's what we do we invest in small businesses and as the leader of Empower the change We have a team of leaders which is a fund I've been on both sides of the table and I found these things to be universal So the first thing I want to I want to share is a leadership Characteristic is you got to be somebody that folks want to do business with That's the very first thing and that requires a certain degree of leadership ability Specifically, you've got to be able to communicate. You've got to be able to articulate You have got to be able to persuade and Those are leadership characteristics that you don't have to wake up and be born with but that you can learn Next you really on both sides of the table. I've seen this you've got to be a person That demonstrates strong leadership demonstrates strong leadership and you do that in a cocktail of ways a cocktail of Things demonstrated past performance current presence and future opportunity. I mean people need to be able to figure out What have you done that suggests you will successfully do this? Without that you can't get to a really important investment requirement and that is that the investor has confidence and Trust you getting to that Demonstrating strong leadership also requires you to have some transparency if I can't figure you out With regard to the business proposition. We're talking about I'm not gonna give you my money And I have found that to be true when I am asking for money What's your leadership methodology? I know sounds like some kind of formulaic thing. It isn't it's really this How do you build manage and then empower a team? You're not a one-woman shell Generally if you want my money and I haven't been able to get anybody else's as a one-woman shell So can you weigh can you analyze? Can you decide somebody's got to make decisions? That's that's just require that's a leadership characteristic. And then last Show confidence You know, you got a bet on you people have to believe that you believe in you But that confidence I've experienced needs to be demonstrated by competence not cockiness and I've seen it and I've tried not to exhibit it although I probably have somewhere along the way I've seen confidence that came across as cockiness and I didn't want to invest in that and I've seen and tried to demonstrate confidence based on confidence and I've been able to raise money around it so Those are the fourth fourth kinds of characteristics essential to getting the yes because Money follows good ideas that people with the money believe that the person they're gonna give it to can achieve That good idea and that requires that I've got confidence you've articulated to persuade it You've demonstrated that you can build the team that an important piece at the end of the line of all of that is I can then believe that you won't get me my money back That's the game right I Want my money back and I want the other Outcomes that I am seeking as an investor and I want to be able to demonstrate to you That I'll get those outcomes if you invest in me Simple very simple force and they can say and for the entrepreneurs listening out there when you ask them stand up There were plenty remaining In your experience What are some of the red flags? They're out there when someone's pitching you on something you talked about cockiness Things that can get in the way of a deal What are some of those cockiness can get in the way of a deal But I think one that gets in the way of a deal even quicker is the end the failure to understand your competition. I Love oh, we don't have any competitors Not a good answer. It's a general rule We're slaying the competitors and here they are and this is why I can get all of that The other thing that gets in the way a lot is not being able to understand how I'm gonna get my money back Or the outcome that I'm seeking you and not being able to follow through and understand your business proposition Well enough to figure out how what the opportunities for exit might be or what the opportunity is for us to make the money That we think we need to make on this particular investment those things get in the way and they're related to leadership because they are really about Taking the time To get outside of this wonderful idea you have as an entrepreneur and figure out how you will manage to sell it That's the leadership Foundation that is missing in those things And for those of you who don't know what really just does we have these CEO forums that we do once a month and we have a no advice rule So we always like to share from from experience and so Sandy in your experience now raising capital. Yeah raising a fund What was your approach? Well, let me say to you first of all that we got lots of no's Before we got to a yes plenty of no's I'd say at a ratio of five no's Maybe ten to every yes So that's the first thing is I had to come to a realization that no matter how excited we were About our product and the fund and the outcomes we could reach with the fund Everybody just was not gonna get there with us So I also learned a very important thing that the pitch has got to be right and by that I mean the pitch has got to be right Defined right in its presentation and right in its mesh with the outcomes that the investor is interested in so a lot of our early no's were related to mismatch between the pitch and the investor and We empower the change fund is the name of the fund dynamic idea and concept to invest exclusively in minority business Enterprises, but it is a different kind of fun and we really missed early on on the match Lane were you gonna sit? I was gonna say that's really interesting to say way into what Lane's talking about this Misalignment between entrepreneur and investor Elaine What's something an entrepreneur needs to know KNOW in order to give a yes Yeah, so I think there's a few things and So just a little bit about my background. I was a salesperson. I've done inside sales. I've done retail sales I was a marketing person, which is basically different kind of sales So you're selling people on an idea you're trying to convince and persuade people to buy something that they sometimes don't need or want I I've had to I've launched a fund. I've been a fundraiser With a nonprofit so I've done almost everything you can do in the sales perspective and one of the things that I think is really 100% consistently true is that whole thing about knowing who you're talking to Getting strategic and I think what happens with entrepreneurs one of the things that I like to say is hustle mode has a shelf life I'm gonna say it again hustle mode has a shelf life Hustle is what got you to start your business Hustle was the thing that convinced you when everyone told you that you were crazy to leave your job that you were crazy To go up and do this thing that was hustle But hustle is playing checkers and eventually you need to get to playing chess You got to play the long game and for me that's about getting strategic and getting strategic means Getting prepared Understanding who you're talking to knowing do a Google search. I cannot tell you how many times That there's been a pitch and the person didn't go through the homework of just googling the person that they were going to meet Check out their LinkedIn check out what they've done What have they invested in in the past so that you understand how to position your pitch, right? If they are not investing in consumer package goods, maybe it's not a good use of your time to pitch them But the other side of that is for the investor, right? And I don't know Kevin you were going to talk about that But I want to talk a little bit about it's it's not just the responsibility of the entrepreneur Investors need to be just as clear about what they're investing is and I think if you get a certain level VCs are really good About this, but I think our angel and seed investors need to be more unapologetic about Where where do they want to invest their money and not just take meetings because they want to hear like something really cool Because you're taking time away from the entrepreneur from actually running the business So I really want our investors to get unapologetic about what their investment thesis is and get to a quick No, an entrepreneur will so appreciate it if you just tell them no right away You can always come back later, right? There might be a price to pay, but you can always come back later But the really the goal is be unapologetic about your investment thesis and get to a quick No, if you don't want to invest in retail be clear about that Don't waste an entrepreneur's time with having three and four and five dinners or coffees when you're not really when you're on the fence About thinking about what it is that you want to do so really it's about Entrepreneurs knowing who they're talking to and understanding who they're talking to what their motivations are so much as public now You can find out what other things they've invested in you can call those people that they've invested in and ask them about what their experience It's about what is the what's the saying luck is preparation meeting opportunity? So be prepared and I know you're busy doing your you're you're building your business But I think it's worthwhile if you're actually going to go into looking for investors Put it on your calendar an hour a week 30 minutes a week to do something whether it's Google somebody LinkedIn somebody call and make an appointment with somebody that they've invested in do something so that you're constantly moving the needle forward Elaine You and I work on our affinity group together. So I know you've got some real insight on BIPOC Entrepreneurs and What investors and those entrepreneurs need to be thinking about say something? Ooh That's a whole panel Here's here's what I would say on both sides One for the investors and the venture particularly venture capital We know that only 2% of venture capital is going to women and even less is going to BIPOC people, right? So let's turn that around. What does that say? That means that 99% of the pitches that went in front of VCs were bad and I refuse to believe that I Refuse to believe that 99% of women or 98% of women 98% of BIPOC people who went in front of investors had a bad pitch, right? So what we know is that there is still an embedded racism and sexism that happens in investing Point blank period. So for investors once again, this is part of your preparation What are the biases that you're bringing to the conversation that you may not even know that you're doing right? And we get it right. It's called implicit bias for a reason But also for our entrepreneurs our BIPOC entrepreneurs while it's not fair You must be better prepared and you must know your numbers. That's where I find the biggest trip Know your numbers. I I sing this song. I'm turning it into a record I find that that is really what I see is the biggest downfall is that founders do not know how much does it cost to Make the thing what is where they going to get their contributed margin at what point where they increase their Volume pricing right so that they can see where their profitability is going to actually uptick You know really thinking about and I would I would really encourage you to think about this from the lens of Yes, you might need money but what you really need is what money can buy you and Sometimes knowing that is far more important because sometimes you can get that without the money I've got a great story about how I hired my first employee and I'll tell this really quick So when I first started my business seven years ago, I needed an employee. I needed help. I was drowning and I knew I had a very small amount of money So I went through the process of writing a job description I actually wrote three job descriptions of somebody who could give me exponential time back I met this woman at an event really I Met this woman at an event and I said well, what do you do for a living and she's like I'm a project manager That was one of the job descriptions. I wrote I took her to lunch. I said listen I can pay you half half of your rate for four eight weeks or I can pay you your rate for four weeks I said, but if you stay with me for eight weeks, I think I can hook some clients that will allow me to keep you on longer She said I'll talk to you. I'll call you back in a couple days. She called me back She said I will take half my pay for eight weeks. She stayed with me for three years And to me just listening this is really interesting to me because Simple sense. It's like an alignment of strategy is investor and entrepreneur It's like your first home search your first home buyer, right? The realtor is gonna ask you okay, Kevin What location do you want to search in are you going single family multi-family duplex triplex? So where where in this search? Should investors be thinking about I guess how should they change their search projects to include more BIPOC and black and brown So I think it's getting connected to your ecosystem. I think you know our networks are look like us So if you're a white woman who lives in an affluent neighborhood ours is Minnetonka or Edina You're not gonna know any BIPOC founders, right? You're just not they're not in your you're they're not in your purview so the homework becomes for you to learn and understand and Seek out it's homework for you, right? Just like we just told the entrepreneurs. They have homework You have homework you have homework to go and find those places and spaces So we have a nonprofit in the Twin Cities called connective Institute where that's all we do is we're an enterprise development and social finance Studio, so we know where those people are There's lots of other organizations very similar to us some of them are here But getting connected to those communities because also sometimes you are unaware of how you come into the Conversation and so those organizations will help you come into the conversation because investing in these businesses is different it is different and There you can see me afterwards and I'll help you to tell you what those differences are But it is different So we want you to be successful but we also want them to be successful and that requires you to do it a little bit of your own due Dillendance to understand how can you show up as the best investor in the best supporter of these businesses and not bring some of your bias Into what could be a wonderful relationship and conversation that makes money for both of you So thanks Elaine and you know where I want to take this is you know in order to find that home that search that Entrepreneur and it needs to be the marketplace and the marketplace needs to be created So I just want to see you show a hands here in the crowd Let's get elbow over years if you have worked on Wall Street before Okay, I got a couple up there anyone that's worked on in Sand Hill before You know in Sand Hill VC the VC Wall Street. Does anyone heard of the impact Wall Street? John, I know you have a few comments on this the impact Wall Street has it been made yet? Yeah, so it's an honor to be here and Sandra Lane just Fantastic insights. Thank you and Kevin. Thanks for inviting me. Yeah, so Kevin's question to me is where is the impact Wall Street and To me it's a paradox Because at the same time it's everywhere and nowhere It's everywhere because I'm not aware of a capital market segment It's not to some degree moving in the impact direction. I don't know it so impact funds agriculture education social funds Family offices university endowments strategic investors faith-based investors everywhere But it's also nowhere in the sense that there isn't either Figuratively or virtually headquarters So public equity investing is so efficient. They named a street after it Wall Street Inventure capital has become kind of so efficient that they've named a road after it Sand Hill Road But in the impact economy the streets have no names So let me begin on the the negative part finish on a strong part the opportunity set that comes from everywhere But then the negative of the nowhere is it's really inefficient From an impact company's perspective and in particular the CEO There is no Wall Street. You can't walk up and down a street. It's not centralized. It's diffuse it's like a Blockchain impact economy is a blockchain and nobody has the key So From a an impact company's perspective CEO's perspective What do you do about that? And I think one strategy that I've seen used With some success is a force multiplication strategy similar to align what you were saying which is Build and exercise your network and the funniest thing happens when you call somebody who's a friend or a colleague or a board member or an advisory board member We're raising around. What do you know? and I Think doing that intentionally is It'll just cast the net more Widely in this blockchain where nobody has the key The from those who are in the capital formation business. I mean It's probably the most inefficient market in the capital markets and it's a screaming opportunity to build a stronger conduit between the impact funds looking for breakthrough impact innovation and great impact entrepreneurs and it's and Some efforts have been made but it's it's a tall task because nobody has the key to the system I think a couple other ideas for for impact companies The first is just the whole idea of impact innovation And so the analogy I give you is business schools teach business model innovation To increase profits and engineering schools teach technical innovation to build a better product But there's this idea also of the continuous improvement of the impact delivered by an impact company Which casts a different light on the purpose of impact metrics So the conversation overwhelming is what we have to know what impact have you had in the past Which is really important. So I'm not diminishing that but there's another purpose too, which is that same impact data provides the data set for how your impact has performed for its impact purpose and so in it's also possible for a management team to design Little experiments AB experiments in a given year. What if we compared this to that that to that and the continuous improvement so and I think that That approach a strong impact innovation approach would differentiate impact companies when going to meet with investors because many of the investors want to have powerful impact optimize for their dollar invested and a plan of continuous Improvement would do that the other the other thing that's really amazing about the everywhere part the positive part of the impact economy is No longer is the capital limited to equity and debt Now there's blended capital and so there's all this matter of innovation taking place in the capital markets for carbon by example not limited to this carbon credits social bonds green bonds and other there's this great blending taking place between for profit and Impact and that the innovation is not limited to the impact companies entrepreneurs. It's happening. It has happened It's continuing. It's early, but it's happening in the capital markets. The other thing to be aware of for an impact company and the CEO is two meteors Hit the United States in August Largely hidden in plain sight so that there's the inflation reduction act and the chips and science act of 2022 Really the inflation reduction act is mostly about funding climate solutions deployment not invention 370 billion dollars with a B some of that for marginalized communities in the United States 370 billion dollars arriving just as the capital markets are going from capital abundance in the direction of capital scarcity remarkable the other the other in the chips and science act is for the Science-based impact companies 200. It's the headlines are about semiconductors reshor chips chips and science act But the science act is the dominant part 200 billion dollars for scientific research in Some desicc well a whole bunch of designated areas and so for those with technical innovation Opportunities it's that just landed and they were signed by President Biden within seven days of each other It's remarkable largely hidden in plain sight what that means for the impact economy So those are a couple ideas the last thing I would say for family offices the family offices have been The heroes and heroines in the impact economy from a capital perspective people have written about this But I just want to say that out loud extraordinary How the leadership that family offices have provided Many of them are building their strength by creating collaborations coalitions so there's more Power that they're bringing and I would encourage family offices to do that more often and put a flag up So the entrepreneurs can see you like Elaine said who you are what you're doing while you're doing it But you know mostly hats off to the family offices John we spoke a lot about today. We're here obviously to learn how to get no Into a yes talked about strategy alignment. It's like the leadership qualities You raised the question of social innovation in the business from your experience What were some of the helpful questions that investors asked you during your race? Trying to sort for the non-standard questions because we got every single standard question Including who your competitors and everything you talked about Sandra. I would say Because our company shared acts has both an environmental and a social objective lifting small-holder farmer incomes through regenerative agriculture The one of the best questions that we got what is there a multiplication potential between the two? that That is by doing regenerative Can you further increase? small farmer incomes and so we Actually, I think that that was a very insightful question. I think that this let me just stand that for a moment if I can Jane Goodall wrote a book Last year called the book of hope Everybody should read the book of hope. It's really it's really good And she she also wrote the forward in a book called regeneration By Paul Hawken and so in it she tells the story about when she first went to Tanzania 1960 to Save Help save the chimpanzee communities. She quickly came to the realization. She couldn't do that. She couldn't accomplish the mission unless the poverty of the nearby human communities was alleviated because there was economic value in the skulls of the chimpanzees and the trees in which they lived and so this inextricable link between poverty in the environment is I think powerful and Largely hidden in plain sight For those of you who don't know about John's business shared acts regenerative farming helps a question more carbon Increased more yields and also while doing that bring people out of poverty by increasing their wages Here's another question for you all while we have some time remaining and just for folks listening out there if you have the app Go to the event agenda. You can actually ask questions I'm sure you guys have already done that But I've got a big iPad up here and I want to answer your questions and we'll do that with about Probably eight minutes remaining. So then there's six minutes still left Kevin before you move I'd like to build a bit on the last thing that John talked about in terms of Impact innovation and entrepreneurs who think that way as a road to getting to yes And I'm I'm offering this from my investor had At an advantage and I would say that's so astute such an astute observation Because I see our investment team Constantly captivated by that entrepreneur who is really thinking about What is the course correction or what is the next opportunity that my current? Operation with your investment might be able to achieve it is a leadership quality Because leaders absolutely must be looking forward must be looking toward the future and must have a methodology For bringing their team along there, but I see us in an investment committee discussions really getting Interested at a different kind of level the level that gets you to yes in those Entrepreneurs who are thinking about course correction Course opportunity invest in us as we are doing this now because here is the next thing that that will bring That we can do that you know and it's not always the perspective that this is a serial entrepreneur It is simply that this is an entrepreneur that is looking forward on the growth opportunities and That really is important. I'm not sure that we see it enough We see great entrepreneurs that have a great product. They understand what the impact is today And that's what they're selling and I also want to say particularly to investors that I think two things can happen one Because you don't understand the innovation the innovation gets devalued So once again being aware of what your lack of understanding how can inhibit you? Missing a wonderful opportunity, right because we just talked about 99% of the 99% of the Presentations were bad the assumption right that that's that was something that was a missed opportunity. So as an investor I love this space Investing in rural entrepreneurs investing in and BIPOC entrepreneurs because I have no competition. I Get the pick of my choice Right because there is nobody Very few people who are investing in that but I think the other part of innovation is that not innovation for innovation's sake I will just tell you in them in the Twin Cities in Minnesota we're all on this tech tech tech tech thing But the the the long and the short of is there aren't a lot of black and brown people creating tech businesses So if we're dedicating 85% of our resources and our revenue to Supporting that but black and brown people aren't doing that There's now a mismatch of like what the ecosystem is supporting So I think it's out like Sandy was saying I think it's really important for you as entrepreneurs Whether you're in consumer packaged goods whether you're in health care services that you are looking forward Right of thinking about what is the future of my field my sector? But that may or may not necessarily include tech I think tech will be a part of it of how you operationalize it But don't always think that you have to be building a tech business But really I think it's as simple as a Google alert put a Google alert on your on your on your browser That says future of whatever it is you do future of hair care future of beauty Future and so you can start to see and be able to answer that question when you're sitting in front of investor to be like Where do you think this sector is going? How what do you think is the sunset for your particular business or when do you think you might have to start re-engineering or changing your Production based on your particular sector It's me and Sandy. I want to talk about your recent fund You raise a little bit. Yes, but ago When you got those yeses, what do you think it was exactly was it the alignment? Was it the presentation? Was it just be able being able to expand upon? What you were trying to do? What was it that turned that note to us? It was all of that, but I would say alignment presentation and timing Alignment first of all because RLPs are all coming from not all but are largely coming from a particular sector Which indicates alignment what empower the change sets out to do aligns with? Banking LPs But then it is also presentation Because at the end of the day, I still have got we have still got to be able to to convince you That if even though we're aligned if you come into this fund with us as an LP We are going to get you across your finish line and and and that's presentation and that Presentation not not just simply the the pitch deck by that It is the presentation of the ability to achieve those outcomes that goes back to my leadership skills that that is my ability to Give you that cocktail of what past performance what presence A situation is and what future opportunities are that persuade you that we will be able to get across the finish line So that's what I mean by my presentation And you asked me that question in our fundraise and that's that is my answer this alignment It's presentation. It's timing. We also raised this fun I Out of our belief that the timing required us to create to do what we do best as Impact investor and that is to drive capital to places where it does not ordinarily go That's our business model and to make money at it and to grow businesses good jobs good wages and it was out of that Thesis and the timing in America when we said this is a product that needs to happen Following the death of George Floyd and the civil unrest We said as a firm. There's an economic foundation to what is happening here and it has to do with What why such deep economic inequality in these regions? Why no business sector in these regions? Why why why around things that we knew how to answer so that? Alignment presentation and timing timing huge. Yeah, I like how you position that to me very simple and Because your fund and most businesses are so complex and the parallel I want to draw here and Impasses to John is that we're on this stage, right? But what you don't see is the incredible staff behind us in all of the moving parts There's 10 15 people back there. There's a whole projector. There's so many different things are going on But when it comes to your pitch It's just the center stage that you have to get across to that investor What are some of the key things you want to make sure that you have? To make it simple for that investor that audience to understand What do you do? You know, I've always found it a positive if the person giving a pitch in the first slide just Reduces to it the essence what makes the company different and it's there's no standard Approach to that because every company is different should be different. So what what do you stand for and? and what sets you apart and then In my experience the investor is there and Doesn't have to wait to slide 15 or 18 or 20 to where there's a build up to what the company is I think you just lose people's attention in many cases. So just from a Presentation and delivery approach just Starting with the conclusion to some degree Any comments No, I was like the spot on it's exactly You know, I think it's really important for entrepreneurs to understand that Building on this point. I can't I don't want to guess About what it is the differentiate that you're gonna do and that differentiates you from the 24 others who are gonna talk to us about being able to do the same thing and so that really is a skill that the entrepreneur has to hone in on and When I think about In the fundraise for empower where I'm in essence that entrepreneur very early on I Firmly believed that people were just gonna get it Because it's a right thing to do to drive capital into Minority businesses and grow up. What's hard about that? Well, what's hard about that is why hasn't it happened before it would have been happening a long time ago What about all these other programs that have attempted to do the same and how many of those businesses are there that have the Opportunity to take this care. There's lots that you can't leave Your investor prospect guessing about more importantly that you can assume that your investor prospect Knows and understands That's your job. That was our job. And so I described it earlier as mismatch a pitch There's a subtext to that. It was not just mismatch and pitch. It was also Mismatch in the formulation of the pitch Assuming that people knew things that they did not know, you know so so it It really requires what Elaine talked about it is the deep work of understanding your product your audience your outcomes and Anticipating All the ways that that can go in a direction that you may not want to go in but you have to be prepared to answer Hmm. I love that and close remark. We're standing more at Lane Rasmussen and John this and I'm Kevin. I was asking you out there Know your audience and always folks. Keep it real. Thank you all and that's typically how we close a podcast here So I want to thank you all for being here today We've got about three and a half minutes to answer your questions. So keep on saying them in right now And I'm going to ask the first one just go in order here with Sandy Sandy How do you deal with finding out who are your competitors and informal market? How do you deal with finding out who are your competitors in an informal market informal market? The key is the informal market, right? Then you've got to you got to start asking questions You got to go where you think that thing is happening and you've got to ask some questions You have to broaden your funnel. It really is a variation of what Elaine said about Increasing your ability to know investors where those opportunities are the same here You've got to I can't possibly talk about minority business investing and understand who my competitors are if I'm not out talking to MBEs and talking to BIPOC businesses and saying where'd you get your money and how Did you get it and who turned you down and who brought you along so Very much. We're gonna keep rapid fire here. This one's for John. John John mentioned the heroes heroines of impact investing family offices What public-facing coalitions can invest ease or funds? Connect with to find potential family office investors That's I mean of all the inefficient segments of the impact economy That's the most inefficient and I wish there were one actually therefore the capital market opportunity to do that I don't know of a single one and it may be out there So I don't want to offend anybody it may be out there and some groups are pulling family office conferences But there are so many and they're so dispersed across the country. I mean there's concentration to of course and so many different areas of interest and so Honestly, I apologize to the person to ask the question but Kevin. I don't know I think there's solid air network I don't think their family office is necessarily but there's tonic. There's solid air network that are coalescing Individuals and individual family offices. So there's some there's some groups out there, but we need more Interesting, here's another question that came in that says from the investor perspective Do you consider the potential negative impacts of an investment when deciding whether something is a no or yes? Yes, absolutely as an impact investor we do we can we have a phrase for it We call it reputational risk and we look at reputational risk That's a big part of my job as the chief impact officer is one to figure out. What's the highest and best? Impact results we can get in a particular investment and data drives that Decision-making data and experience and then the other is what is the reputational risk of this particular? Investment group of investments investment in this space and so forth and so on and we've made in my opinion Miss some opportunities that because the reputational risk outweighed At least in my partner's mind is the opportunity same here did oh We are driven by our values and so that sometimes requires us to pass even on some of the greatest opportunity But we're okay with that Another interesting question just came and says you talked about a mismatch of a pitch. Can you talk about investor targeting? How do you identify investors that are most aligned with your mission? There's a lot of questions on this it seems like the odd it's it's in it's the homework. It is there you go, you know You you go and you dig if it's if it's a bank You want to find out what their size is what their size is relative to other banks You want to find out their service area you want to find out if they do have if they have a foundation or they have a CDC It's the homework so that you really understand how what you want to achieve aligns with what they exist for But I would just really quick because I know we got a wrap up get the business in order first Right, I think sometimes particularly in in our market in the upper Midwest It's like go on get investor Go on and there is so much work that the founder hasn't done yet So get your business in order get your operations in order Because then you actually have the space To be able to do this homework and then started early not when you need money start looking for money when you don't need money So I say thank you 1130 for being here I want everyone to go ahead and stand up one more time Go ahead and stand up before we send you off to lunch And we just want to say repeat after me. I am impactful And I am powerful Thank you 1130