 Life is good. Oh, excellent. We like to hear this. Yeah. Jeff, have you been doing most of your stuff through the payer subgroup? Is that correct? Lately, yes. Okay. Have you spent much time lately with patient at all? I haven't. Okay. All right. We're in the process of switching over to a new lead for patient. And Dennis, who's out of Switzerland and so, we're probably going to be making an announcement sometime soon about sort of spinning that back up again. And I seem to recall that you were involved in patients sometime ago. That's right. When I was more working on that end of that. So, okay. All right. Good to know. Thanks for that. It's just odd. We're at the top of the hour and we have very few people and particularly our guest speakers. So, good God. So do you have my email, Rich, since yesterday I saw yours daylight. Well, so we are at the top of the hour. So I do want to get started and I think I suspect folks will start to dial in as we get started. Good morning, Ken. Ken, do you want to introduce yourself again? And I apologize. I know you've been on the calls before. I want to say you're on the East Coast somewhere. Oh, I heard something, but not a whole lot. Or maybe Ken's not quite there yet. Oh, good morning, Kamlesh. Others, Ravish. Good morning. And Ravish, don't have audio with you quite yet. Yeah, hi, Rick. Come this here. How are you? Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening to you. How are you? Yeah, I'm good. How are you? Very good. Thank you. All right, well, we'll get started. And as I say, it looks like people are just now coming in. So good morning, good afternoon to everybody. Great to have you on the call. And it looks like Ravish is getting sort of set up right now, but we've got a little bit of introduction to get through and then we'll hand over to Ravish in very short order. So you should have on the screen, I'm sharing our agenda for the day. And as always, for our HC sick meetings, we record these events as well. There's our antitrust slide, which feel free to read through it, but the upshot of it is be a good person. And I don't see anyone new on the call this morning. So, but can I ask you to reintroduce yourself only because I forget, I seem to remember you're out on the East Coast. Is that correct? Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, my name is Ken Jensen. I work for Centera Health Systems. Centera is actually out of Norfolk, but I'm based in Virginia Beach, Virginia. Okay. All right, I was trying to remember the name of your company. Great, great to have you on the call. Again, thanks for that, Ken. And like I said, I suspect people will start to sort of filter in over the course of the morning out here in the Seattle area, it is, it's very overcast, it's oddly, oddly overcast and very cool. So, a very unusual and it seems just like a slow morning. Overcast in Seattle, really? Well, the past few days, it's been unusually warm. It's been in the mid 80s, which is very strange. The weather has absolutely been changing over the course of the past few years or so. All right, so I do want to make one community announcements. This has been sort of an ongoing announcement. I know the team has continued to work on this. But out of Cambridge University, we have a couple of folks that are developing the next generation of their global bench, global blockchain benchmarking study. And so they have contacted us and asked that if anyone is doing work with production level blockchain solutions in the healthcare space that you please contact them. And you'll be able to sort of get your work polished into their paper that they're producing. Anything else anyone on the call wants to make under the sort of auspices of a community announcement? Okay. Good morning, yes. Good morning, how are you? So one quick announcement, Rich, I wanted to make is there is a physical meet that I'm working with the Maryland Center for Entrepreneurship. Sometime in July, I think it will be either second week of July or third week of July. It's still working out dates. So just wanted to give a heads up. It's going to be in Columbia, Maryland, kind of a half a day thing. And I have secured the facility and all. And once we finalize the date, I will get that out to everyone. If you are in the area around Columbia, Maryland, then it would be good to join. I am good as part of that. You know, from peer subgroup perspective, I am reaching out to the payers here who specifically invite them more in line with our thought process and their peer subgroup to start working on a real POC. So just wanted to quickly put this out there. Oh, good. Okay. And you'll sort of notify membership with the details when those come through. Yes, it'll be another week or so. I will have everything finalized and I'll send out the details. Excellent. Okay. Well, very good. Thank you. Well, if anyone else, if no one else has a comment as far as community announcements go, let's sort of just segue right over to Ravish and his presentation. So many of you probably already know Ravish. He's the lead of our payer subgroup as well. He's CEO of, is it Joget or Joget? Or how do you- Joget. Joget. And a great organization that Ravish will be talking about. And I suspect it'll be related to hyperledger fabric. How could I have guessed? The slides for Ravish's presentation are up on the Wiki already. So Ravish, if you want to sort of take over, feel free to take the screen over and the rest of the morning is really yours probably until about quarter to the hour and that'll give us plenty of time for Q&A. Okay. And let me share my screen so I don't know when you guys see it. Perfect. Looking good. Okay. So let me just level set what we are getting into for a discussion and then we can go from there. So we have been of, I am not sure what's, it's give me one second. Let me just, I think something is causing a problem. Give me one second. Sure. I saw the presentation. So you were awfully close. Oh, and good morning, Wendy. I didn't, I just saw they just got on the call. Good morning. Good morning to everyone. Happy Friday. Happy Friday. Thank you, Wendy. Can you guys see it now or? Yeah. Yeah, here we go. When you guys can see it. Okay. Okay. So just quickly talking about what, why I thought it would be a good idea to share the presentation here. I think we have been in discussions with various work groups. We have had a lot of discussions around, especially in healthcare also, we had a lot of discussions around possible use cases where to leverage blockchain. And the real problem is that obviously if you are a business user, you know less about blockchain, you have no idea about the coding and all. And blockchain as being a technology problem is a business problem also. So I thought it would be good to just hear from everyone. A quick minute on what do you think is blockchain adoption a technical problem or a business problem? Anyone? So, so this is rich. So I'll say generally speaking it's a business problem and I'll even say it's more political than anything else, particularly in the healthcare space but that's just my take on it. Yep. So, so you're at least by share the thoughts. It's not a fact but definitely I see that more so technical, it's more of a business problem and really modeling the business process around how you will leverage black blockchain is another level of problem that we need to deal with. And talking about so many stakeholders, like in healthcare. Obviously, blockchain extended itself to engage multiple parties, if you will, as one of the attributes itself. So it definitely is a business problem and a complicated business problem. And, you know, when we talk about, you know, adoption, at least these are my thoughts on why we see a slower adoption if you will from, you know, technology like blockchain which has a lot more, you know, validity to what we are doing today and tomorrow. So, you know, one is obviously there is a usage complication. It's difficult to define what, you know, business, how business will use it, where it will use it, so on and so forth. When we talk about using the blockchain, things have to be done a little differently, which leads to, you know, resistance and change. That's another problem, right. Absence of regulation itself, you know, like you talked about, it's more of a political than a technology problem, engaging multiple parties, a perception of immaturity. So it's all those reasons why it becomes very difficult to move a blockchain project in any organization. On top of that, if there is an organization today who does not have enthusiasts who are, you know, actively trying to learn blockchain and want to do a proof of concept, there is just a longer way to get there now because I cannot show it to my management. It becomes difficult to do, you know, to convince about a project. And just wanted to take a pause and talk about innovation, how innovation happens, right. The acceptance or adoption of any new concepts in any organization or amongst consumers is really proportional to your ability to demonstrate your proof of concept. If you can show them working, you know, like, for example, you know, you go to Hyperledge Fabric, the first thing is to get started and there is a Fabcar, you know, tutorial, if you will, that talks about something in action that you can relate to, right. Everyone buys cars, so you can relate to that example and you can really see what it means and how it can benefit in a scenario and or how it will work. And that is what is really required to fuel blockchain adoption, you know, if you will. There are not a lot of blockchain developers, if you look at it. Obviously it's growing based on the interest, based on, but there are no, you know, like they are searching for someone who has this in production. Well, guess what? The first step is the POC in an organization to make sure that this really can work. How do you get there? When you have lack of resources, when you have, you know, no one experienced in blockchain within an organization, or you may be able to source someone externally to do that, but then your business processes are still your business processes. You still need a thought process how you will leverage the technology with internally. So that's the overall innovation cycle, if you will. And, you know, the only thing or at least the critical thing to ensure that your team is able to continuously deliver and innovate, be blockchain or any other technology is there is only one factor that at least comes to my mind, which is empowerment. Right? That's, if you have enabled your teams or empowered your teams, you know, do POCs to showcase what their concepts, what the concepts they are talking about, that's what matters the most. And if you look at new technologies, you know, look at mobile, look at anything that has a higher level of adoption is because of the empowerment of the technology itself. Either the consumer is empowered to leverage the technology or your people are empowered to deploy the technology. These are the two major, you know, factors that contribute towards any innovation. And that's what we are talking about in blockchain. How do I do that? How can I, you know, with my limited resources be able to, you know, if I am in IT and I want to showcase business that, you know what this really, blockchain really has value, how can I do that with very limited resources? So in that comes a good discussion about local platforms. I am sure you guys might be familiar with there is a lot of hype that Gartner has right now or Forester or any of these guys. So much so, Gartner is talking about 50 to 60% of development in any large enterprise will happen using some of these tools. So I am not going to go deep in details, but the essence of this message is, you know, we have to empower non coders or more so business users to be able to, you know, talk about how they can leverage the blockchain technology, if you will, and more their processes to better, you know, leverage the technology tomorrow. And that's something that can be done by local platforms. So if you talk about local platforms, there are a few things that I want to quickly mention about. And guys just jump in and ask questions if I'm going too fast. We are talking about four major capabilities, any local platform. Number one is your ability to create drag and drop and create forms. Let's say in the in the fab called model, you are talking about registering a vehicle, right? You have to, you know, create a form that can capture the information for the vehicle. The second piece is your overall process, somebody summits the information somebody reviews is website, and you are ready to write on the chain, right? That's a process business process, if you will, that gets built outside the chain before you write to to the blockchain. So that's another piece of capability. Again, these are all drag dock capabilities available today. The third is to look at that information to view that information, you know, query that information, so on and so forth. And the fourth piece is ability to stitch all this together into an application wherein you can create some menu items you can navigate so on and so forth. So these are some big major capabilities in any local local platform and should be there, if you will. So just to give you an idea, what does it mean when I talk about local local platform? You know, this is the fun part. I have a developer who may not know how to, you know, or let's say there is a blockchain developer who does not know how to create screens, how to create the whole application, but definitely knows about blockchain or vice versa. I have a business user who is savvy enough to put together an application that will work around a blockchain framework. What we have done at Joget is we created a integration with Hyperledger Fabric wherein you can, you know, install the plugin, configure the plugin to connect to the Fabric network, and you can build around it any business application. And how you do that is basically ability to drag and drop, create forms, create process. In that process, you create a step to write to a chain. That's where the Fabric plugin comes into picture. So you don't have to worry about the screens that you have to build. You don't have to worry about the process that you have to build. You have to worry about writing the data that you're capturing or part of that data that you're capturing in the chain. You can use the Fabric plugin to write to the Fabric network. And, you know, you can query that information all by drag and drop features. The reason why we, just so everyone understands, the reason why we did this specifically, we were doing this for AI, we were doing this for overall enterprise business applications. But I felt in various discussions, in various, you know, topics around use cases, there was enough meat to talk about the use case. But if I have to really put that project in motion, I have to create a lot around the blockchain before I really start leveraging blockchain. I have to create a process around it. I have to create a bunch of screens to capture the data around it. And then I can integrate with blockchain, you know, like Hyperlegit. We went ahead and created this plugin for our platform to integrate with Fabric. And what it does is you can just Google it and you will be able to find it. There is a big tutorial around how to start with Joget. You don't have to have a prerequisite to know what Joget is, quite frankly, because it's all visual. If I get a chance towards the end, I will definitely, you know, showcase, you know, what Joget is. But essentially, you have a Fabric network running, if you will. And Hyperlegit Fabric Network, if you follow the tutorial, their tutorial, it is pretty straightforward to download a Docker image and start. Can a business user do it? Maybe, maybe not. But definitely any blockchain developer can, or any IT person can definitely install and run the Fabric network. They may not know what else to do around it, but definitely they can do it. Joget Enterprise Edition, it takes like 10 minutes to just run and install, and it's an open source. You can download the community edition also, and you can do it, you know, just like Hyperlegit Fabric, Joget is also an open source. It also gives me this blog, if you will, let me just see if I can open up that. This blog takes you through, if you have no idea about blockchain and no idea about Joget, you start from the beginning. It will give you a quick overview of blockchain and what DLT is. It will give you an idea of a Hyperlegit Fabric, what Hyperlegit Fabric is. It will give you, introduce you to some key concepts. You know, when it comes to Fabric, what is a ledger, what is a node. You know, who is a member, transactions, ordering service, so on and so forth. It just gives you a quick overview, and I mean, these are all linked to the Hyperlegit Fabric knowledge base. And Ravish, just very quickly, when you clicked on the link to that blog, it didn't look like it updated the screen properly, so we're still seeing your presentation. I am sorry, let me just share my desktop, that might be easier. I'm glad that you brought this up, Iqso. Yeah, there we go. Yeah, so if you go through this blog, and you can just Google blockchain, Hyperlegit Fabric and Joget and you will find it. It shows you, it will give you a quick introduction. It will give you introduction about the blockchain and what, you know, distributed ledger is. What is Hyperlegit Fabric? I talked about the Fabric concepts and the example that they have used. And then it goes into how you will build the app, so basically either query from the chain or write to the chain. That's the essence of, you know, it and the example that they have used as Fabcar, if you are familiar with that, you can, you can, you know, just continue and build the app. Application build out is pretty straightforward. You see some of these screens as an examples. And just to quickly, you, in this blog, you have links to everything that you need to try it out. You can download the sample application also. It is the link. You can download the plugin if you want to try it. You can download the, you know, Joget, you can download Hyperlegit Fabric. All is completely open source and available to anyone. And if you download the app and you try to run the app, it will show you the screens that will capture the data here. Again, these are all, you create these screens by, you know, literally dragging and dropping. And then let me take you to, you know, this is just a view. There is a form builder in Joget. You can just drag and drop and create the applications. You can then create the full crowd operations, if you will. If you use enterprise edition, community edition, you will have to do a little bit more. And then there are some configuration screens, if you will. You will see that this is where you really configure the plugin to give information about which network to connect, whether you are an existing user on that network or registered user or create a user. So it has, it will give you all the information that you need to, or capture all the information that is required to connect to a Hyperlegit Fabric network if it's open running. And it has a very simple interface to, you know, to add parameters. This is just a Fabcar example, but you can add any number of parameters that you need to put it in a chain or read from the chain. And again, this is all configurable and visual, if you will. And this is a very, very detailed example. And here is the process, you know, where it's saying invoking the Fabric transaction that will write to the chain. And, you know, here is a very simple way of mapping the arguments or the variables, if you will, that will capture the information from the screen that you want to write to the, to the chain. And let me go back to my presentation here. So there are these, giving information about the plugin, what you have to, sorry. These are the screen that I shared just now and what it creates is basically the application by virtue of just dragging and dropping. And, you know, essentially you will be able to create an application on a blockchain Hyperlegit Fabric if you want to do a POC. This is a really good way to, you know, download an open source, you know, which is fabric as well as Joget and literally try it out all by yourself. Even if you, I would encourage even if you don't know any coding, just follow the tutorial and you will be surprised that you will be able to create a really working web application, working with fabric behind the scenes to really, you know, capture some information right to a chain and read from the chain. I'll just take a pause here. I know I might have gone through faster, but this is really not complicated information to go through as well. So this looks really good, Ravish. So can you tell me a little bit more about, you said this is an open source project, but I think you also mentioned there's a community edition and an enterprise edition. What's the distinction between the two? Yeah, community edition is just open source community edition enterprise edition has additional features like auto generation of an app. You will not have that in community edition, but community edition is fully capable of building any kind of app also. It's just that there are additional features more from enterprise grade features if you will, you know, integration with LDAP and things like that, which may be needed, which may not be needed depending on what you're doing. But community edition you can really do, you can really build the app as well. I see. Okay. And basically what what you're describing today could be applicable to the community edition just as well. It is applicable to community edition as well. It's just that there is a step in the blog that talks about the enterprise edition to if you create a form and you want to create cloud operations, it just is a single click to do that. In community edition, you just have to create three forms. That's all. I see. Okay. Thank you. Any other questions or I would I would rather pose a question to to everyone who is if you are is anyone trying anything from blockchain perspective trying to do you see trying to build an application and what are your challenges today. So this is Johnny so mostly it's interoperability at this point so you can have actually like a seamless integration with other systems. When you say interoperability you are referring to interoperability between chains or different types of chains. That's mentioned semantics so fabric doesn't do well with semantic interoperability with concepts. Are you building any are you building the application for an enterprise or an consumer. Both any any other questions or challenges anyone wants to share. I have a question or a challenge but it would be it would be really more informative I think to actually watch you build something for just as a you know for a demo. Yeah, I was actually going to get there. I'll showcase how you can build an app and you know, you'll give you an idea how you can build a process and build an app and obviously one of the step is the plugin configuration. We will need a little more time to to get there but I can definitely show you when I'm talking about building an app what it means. Before we go to Johnny one question I have for you before you was it a management decision you want to do this or before doing that you went through the cycles of conceptualization and here is what we want to do. So I'm pretty deep in the weeds with the technological solutions. So, you know, I don't think really, you know, the issue ultimately is is this semantics. So going back to your car example like to make the model like so what are you doing so that a is an ecosystem that understands that car, not just your bespoke customer. Okay, Johnny this is rich. I wonder if can you elaborate on on on your question I'm kind of curious to understand sort of the context of where you're coming from on this. So within fabric so you have a great pipeline for building out and modeling, but the issue really in my mind is one of semantics meaning behind the model. And, and this is where a lot of the interoperability of it's a hyper ledger actually could have an enormous strength of actually is creating meaning behind the data, and ultimately that facilitating interoperability. So not to mention just the schemas for your model but also how do you extend the schema and or the concepts behind it. So I a lot of fabric actually and I've seen a lot of these sort of rappers that make it easy for engineers or programmers to get off the ground and actually write something and they write it but it actually like it's then it's about both is it interoperable with other system what is this this car and the model and then the attributes and, and so you've just you know created one off. So how do we actually create economies at scale. So, so, so sort of common schemas or dictionaries cross cross chain is what you're what you're thinking about. Yeah. Yeah, I understand yeah so so some sort of commonality. So fire for those for those of us in the healthcare space that are familiar with fire fast health interoperability resource. They use a similar concept which is a, I think it's called a dictionary. I forget exactly what it's called but the idea is the only way that you're going to see commonality across multiple the HR platforms is that common common dictionary so that, you know, there's consistency in terminology, and that that really is sort of the enabler for interoperability and I think Johnny that's kind of what you're what you what you may be getting to here. Yeah, so fire. I mean it's I have been involved in fire for a number of years and I think it's it's fascinating I think it's great but it's sort of web 2.0 technology those are restful apis mostly using you know a server in points. But the Jason schemas that fire facilitates actually is a starting point. The challenge is even though you have this robust dictionary is ultimately is the semantics is that can code up a CBC 100 different ways doesn't mean it's it's interoperable. That we're actually come to some commonality about the meaning behind the values. We just have sexually something to hang our hat on, as far as like a best guess for actually coding it up. So because there's so many options within fire actually leads to the lack of interoperability to the semantics behind it of the meaning of this, this, this CBC or Kim seven or I do genetic genetics so it's really, that's even actually more comprehensive and complicated. Yeah, yeah, I think Johnny, your most increment in fire that you'd be looking at would be a quotable concept, quotable concept identifies the code system and the concept within that system. Fire doesn't really do anything except provide you with a structure that allows you to model, but it doesn't provide the semantics as you say, quotable concept really is the, the smallest bit of information in there that that does provide that interoperability and if that quotable concept is snowman or loin or ICD 10 or CPT, then you have some way to represent the knowledge that you're that you're speaking about the problem there is that not all of these are used in an interoperable way so the coding is not necessarily interoperable. So you can have an ICD 10 code that will map to multiple snowman's identities. And I think that that's a challenge but that's not a really challenge of a blockchain. That's just just a challenge that you have in healthcare I think. I think this is where I think we need to not rediscover the same mistakes that we've made in the past. And I think, so I'm just like harping on this because I think you asked a question as far as what other hiccups and this is actually the biggest hiccup that I think. All right, so we have a flashy new distributed ledger and new database shiny object that, and yet, we still can't get to interoperability. So actually, Johnny, just to give a perspective, at least from my end, you know, from business world standpoint, for a moment, think about what you were describing that interoperability issue is resolved for a moment. I'm happy that because you are going to do to, you know, I don't even call it technically a semantics if you will, but for a moment think about that issue is disappeared and magically we have figured this out. And, you know, there are no interoperability issues the business problem as it stands today remains exactly where it was earlier, you know, today also, because ultimately when you resolve that issue and you start working with the business folks. To, you know, create applications around this and process around this, we are going to be exactly the same state as we are tomorrow that those challenges will continue to exist. You know, for, you know, the interoperability interoperability that you're talking about because the number of dictionaries come and there are mappings that just created. I mean, just this is an ongoing problem. But when you turn around to the business world, they are left so behind that for them to catch up on a technology is another age to come. So it's a continuous the way I look at it from overall technology adoption perspective, the blockchain AI, until unless you commoditize this and give the power in the business hands to really model what they want. They will then come back with the real issues like of interoperability or security or some of those things that you can really surface and resolve in a context in a contextual way. Right now we are trying to resolve security as a security so broad security in healthcare means completely different than an end consumer, you know, world. Right. So there are there are layers of problems, if you will, but the first step towards this is helping them conceptualize helping them demonstrate what is required. And then I can get to the other deeper technical problems. The business world is left to be, you know, so behind right now you talk to them about blockchain. They have no idea or no ability to think through and even talk about a POC. I mean, nobody's ready to fund a POC in any organization today. I think that the handful organizations are trying to take a leap and work through this, but you pick majority of the organizations, they can't think about spending money to, you know, showcase something if you will, even showcase something if you will. Now, if I think if innovation has to happen in this space, the business world has to have some tools to, you know, create things for themselves to showcase what are they expecting in order to get the funding in order to move the world in blockchain. That's my two cents. I don't know how others think. So just going back to touch on what Johnny was saying, I agree that there are certain areas within the clinical realm that are more difficult to be semantically interoperable. One of the things such as, you know, pharmacy lab results. I think these are, I think these are very, I think these are pretty can be represented using the code system and fire to to be interoperable knowledge artifacts. There are others such as diagnoses higher level results, concepts that that may be harder to say they semantically mean the same thing at one institution as at the other, the interpretation may be different. But I think that that if we begin to narrow down what can be represented and look at how we do that and maybe apply that to some of the other areas, I think some progress will be made. I don't think that until the medical field has an agreement on how to represent certain knowledge that you're ever going to have 100% consensus but at some point, if you have critical mass, people are going to have to say look, does this person have diabetes type two or not. Does this person have symptoms of post traumatic stress disorder or not. And I think that these harder things to diagnose will find a solution just through the way that you narrow the problems down. Anyway, I do think that there is a certain level of interoperability, especially in pharmacy and lab that that you can that you can begin to work with. Maybe some of the higher level concepts are, are still loose. So I think that in saying that the, the healthcare inter interoperability subgroup will be concentrated on you on areas that that you can well defined and can have semantic interoperability. Cross chain, I don't know cross chain will have to depend on how the models of chains differ. If a common model such as snowman or simi, I mean, sorry, fire or simi, then I think there'll be some, some way forward there, like guaranteed. It seems reasonable to assume. Well, plus once plus one Stephen for for mentioning the health interoperability subgroup so thanks for that. So here's I just one quick thing I, I thought, since Jeff you asked this question, you really demo. You know, this is, you know, a form builder basically what you do is you create an app and then you go create a form and you can literally drag and drop and, you know, add fields to the form. You know, preview what you're building. And then there is similar, similar to this, there is a process builder, where you can literally, you know, create a process again by dragging and dropping. And, you know, one of the one of the step in the process is to write into a chain or read into a chain. That's where you configure the plugin. And which you asked the question about what, what is the difference between community edition and interpretation, you probably will see most of the things in community edition. Other than, you know, when you are looking at generate app, this, this just gives a, if I have created a form, I can just click on it and create, you know, current operations for that form and attach a process before in just a single click. So this just super accelerates what you're doing, but you can, you can create the form, you can create the, the, you know, retrieval of the information for that form. Again, these are all drag and drops. Let's say I want to add another field. I just drag and drop. I want to create search filters. I just drag and drop and do that. But most of focusing on, on hyper ledger, if you will, you, you can, you know, all this information, if you are writing to a chain or reading from a chain, there is a step in there to really configure a plugin, as I said, and this is pretty detailed. If anyone wants to try it, you can try it. It gives you all the steps to, to, you know, configure the hyper ledger fabric plugin and then connect to it and write the right to the network and read from the network. And everything around it, it's more of a business application or a business process. And, and you can see there are the transactions that you configure for read or write or basically it's either a query or an update to the, to the, to get in this example of FAP card network. Any, any other questions, you know, just to add to this, we have been talking about a bunch of, you know, POCs of you will have proof of concept like with the donor milk and all. So now if I, when that you see started, we didn't have the plugin, but I know if you task, you know, just to do using hyper ledger fabric and you'll get probably, you know, less than a week of working application can be demonstrated. Very interesting. So do you have a, do you have an actual sort of working end product to show or, or something available on your website that we can sort of play with. Yes, I think as I mentioned on the blog. If anyone wants to just not build the application and just try it out. In this blog, as I mentioned earlier, there is this application, you just download it and once you install Joget or you can just go online to JogetCloud.com and just create a free trial account. It won't even ask you for credit card, but you can download this application rich and this application when you download is the same application that is in the example. So you can really try, try it out. Oh, excellent. Okay. Good. Thank you. I had a team member who was going to be joining to demo this app itself. Unfortunately, I think we changed it. I pre-poned the date and I did not, you know, changed his calendar and he could not join today. But nonetheless, you should have it. It's pretty simple. If you working fabric network or you just download and have a fabric network, they just download this app and follow this simple tutorial to see the application working. Excellent. Thank you. And this has the same, the fab card example that is in the fabric tutorial also. Well, if we have no other questions. Thank you, Ravish, so much for, for the presentation. What's, very briefly, what's sort of the history of the product? How long has it been around for? What's, what are your plans going forward? So forth. Yeah, so the product has been around for almost 10 years now, which so it is, is being used in a number of enterprises. The reason why I'm more interested in a topic here is to help facilitate some proof of concepts. If we have something that we want to showcase very quickly from business standpoint that has to be on hyper-legit fabric, I think that can be done pretty quickly. And that shows the, that brings the blockchain capability to the surface also to the business world. We have been, I mean, you've been around since 2009, so open source since 2009. And there has been a lot of focus on local, local application development recently. Since I would say since 2015 and 16 when it caught up and it's kind of catching a lot of attention, if you will. And we do have almost 200 customers across the globe with Fortune 500 on the list. So there is a, to try it out, we will know what I'm talking about when it comes to building an application and hooking it up to the fabric. It can be done pretty quickly. So if there are use cases that you want to demonstrate, you definitely can leverage the capability and do it. Excellent. And then sort of a follow on. So if I develop a solution through Joget, is it the case then that I have the sort of ongoing dependency or does the end product operate as a standalone sort of fabric solution. And I'm thinking in terms of sort of the banana file and all the sort of the back end components or it does it still sort of end up having to require using, you know, using the Joget sort of front. Joget. Which is to say, yeah, I'm sorry. I think you what you're talking about is, as I said, Joget is an open source. So you're not, yes, it will require Joget. If you build an app in Joget, it will require Joget. But as I said earlier, this is, I want this discussion to be less about Joget, more about the capability, which is open source. You don't need to buy Joget. You can build the same application in Community Edition. And the intent is to provide ability to showcase a business application that is connected to that that is running on a blockchain technology. So, yes, if you, from enterprise perspective, you start using it, yes, you have to continue using because the application is built on a platform runs on the platform. But, you know, from trying out perspective, use open source, you know, that's what we are here for. You know, that's what Zed had or Linux or any of these organizations are doing is to empower you by not limiting you, you know, I would say for licenses. You have the ability to download, you have the ability to try out, you have the ability to make it work. If you want to take the Community Edition in your production, you can do that too. It's absolutely viable to do that. Excellent. Well, thank you. And thanks again for the presentation, Ravish. Very interesting. And I can imagine, you know, even some maybe some of our work groups maybe making use of the product just to help, you know, very quickly spin up some sort of proofs of concept without having to, you know, spend a tremendous amount of time, you know, at sort of the pure development level. Of course, that's what I enjoy. But still, it's a great business case and I'm happy to know that it's available out there and sort of, you know, lowers the bar for some folks for getting a working product out in the marketplace. So, thank you for that. Well, so I'm sorry just to add to that. I know if we are talking about doing a proof of concept today in any of the work groups, I really need to source in a bunch of people who can put some screens together, a bunch of people who can put some services together to integrate with Hyperledger. This is anything you created in Jogit has a back end API generated. So you don't need to write services to fetch the data out for any integration also. So it just gives you an ability to accelerate a POC if you will on Hyperledger fabric. Excellent. Yeah. And I presume that's that's all well documented so that, you know, those of us that decide to sort of pursue this have access to I think you said you even said there's some very good tutorials that are out there out on the blog and so forth. Excellent. Does anyone have any, any final questions for Ravish? Okay. Well, thank you, Rish. Very, very interesting. And again, like I said, I'm very happy to hear that we have this product out in the market. It's open source, at least predominantly open source for folks to be able to get started with a local no code solution for fabric. And do you have any plans for sort of branching beyond fabric, maybe into sawtooth or any of the other sort of platforms. Yes, we're looking into it, Rich. So something might be coming later this year. Okay. Oh, good to know. Excellent. Alrighty. So we are coming up just to the top of the hour we got a few minutes left. Just sort of as an FYI our next meeting is two weeks out from today. We're going to be back on a regular general meeting schedule. So we will not be at least at this moment anyway, we're not planning on hosting a guest speaker. My intent going forward is to try to sort of stagger guest speakers with general meetings in the more traditional sense. And that really gives subgroups and ad hoc teams an opportunity sort of status membership on where they're at on things. That said, we do get and it seems to be increasingly so we do get asks for for the opportunity to present. And so we're just trying to balance that back and forth to the extent that it's possible. It's great to know that as this group continues to sort of grow and mature and and has have sort of broader reach. And again, this is global. It's nice to be able to see organizations from around the world coming to this membership to present for the sake of improving black chain technologies in the healthcare space. So, so we're going to try to try to stagger it to the extent that we can and like I said we tend to periodically have instances where we just really there's there's a real strong desire to sort of have multiple presentations coming along so. And again thanks to ravish for his presentation. And I believe we have a couple of other presentations sort of in the queue. And I'll sort of status membership when that happens coming up in the next few months. Let's see any other comments before we close out for for the for the week. So, so I'll sort of put Steven on the spotlight so so Steven and I have been going back and forth so we'll we're very close to spinning up the the health interoperability subgroup. And so that'll be happening, presumably in the next couple of weeks. What do you think Steven. Yeah, I think so I think. The other has cleared but I am able to schedule time at least a couple of weeks, couple of hours to three hours every week. So yes I would like to start working on this. There seems to be a lot of interest. Absolutely. Yeah, that's very true. And I think that you know we just need to organize a forum for it and start working through some of the some of the issues that Johnny brought up today and others have brought up before. Exactly. And Johnny, great, great comments, because I believe your observations are very much sort of insinuated in much of the work that's going on in the healthcare space, whether it relates directly to blockchain technologies or not it's sort of something that's pervasive when it comes to interoperability. And then finally, before we do close out I do want to mention that the the patient member subgroup has just done a recent change over to to leadership. So Dennis Dennis Kosen, and he's out of Switzerland he'll be taking over for. Oh gosh, and I just slipped my mind. That's terrible Benjamin, did you. Ben is here in Seattle, he works at Amazon and he and I have been working together and his professional career is, is taking off and so he's had the reins over. I expect sort of sort of maybe a reboot of sorts with the patient member subgroup and that'll be we'll see we'll see an email generated through through the through the listserv for that so if you have a particular interest in sort of the patient centric aspects of blockchain technologies. It's probably a great opportunity now as we sort of, you know, spin this organization this subgroup back up again, with sort of a new focus and some some fresh thinking to that subgroup so that'll be happening very soon as well. Alrighty, well, I think that's all we've got for for today. Thanks so much for your participation in today's meeting, and we will see you in exactly two weeks. Have a great weekend. Thank you. Take care.