 As I mentioned earlier on, we are still continuing with this matters concerning abuse in relationships. So even as we talk about this, remember to keep on engaging with us. I love the feedback that I'm getting. I'm seeing people coming into my inbox talking about this particular discussion. A big thanks to everybody that is tuned in. Thank you so much. I'm with Nchaberre here as a psychologist and counsellor as we talk about matters concerning abuse in relationships. And Nchaberre, before we went on that break, you were talking about healing that it is very important for someone to go through that process and it must be a discussion that involves both parties. It can't be a one month show. How can someone get out of an abusive relationship? First and foremost, abusers make sure that they take away your self-worth. When they take away your self-worth, they make you hate yourself. When you hate yourself, you start blaming yourself. When you blame yourself, you find yourself not good enough. So actually, they make you feel that they are doing you a favor. That being with you is the greatest honor they have given you. They make you think that no one else can accept you. You are flawed. They turn you into a shell. You lose your esteem. You lose your value. And you start measuring yourself in their demand. Now when they establish that, they can turn you into anything they ever wanted. So they have manipulated you and... And that's a polite one. Sorry. That's a polite word. First of all, they show you that number one, you are morally indisciplined. And when someone starts attacking your morality, you always doubt on yourself. And you take a step back. Exactly. You start asking. And if it is a man, you start thinking, What a great man. Who can understand discipline in morality? Sister. Hey! Take off. Ako na kuchunga? They say you can never aga man. It's not okay even your father. It is a calculated journey. They get rid of everything that you have. And we are created because we have our internal self identity. They demolish that and they install theirs. Based on their own dictionary of what everything means. Yes. And they show you how they care. They hide in that note. It's because I love you. It's because I care for you. Now they start talking to you. They start monitoring you. You get 20 phone calls in a day. That's intrusive. And they think that I'm doing this because I love you. I'm doing this because I care. You are the baby. You are the only thing. It's a blunt and lie. One more. Love is free. It allows you to grow. It allows you to become you without conditions. So when that happens, now they have got their field day. They are able to strike. And the other common thing abusers do, they make sure that they isolate you completely from friends, from everybody. The life becomes you and them. They blindfold you. Once you fall for that, we're done. So the question was how would I be able to get out? Of an abusive relationship. It's hard work. Because all the things that make you a person have been taken away. It will need external intervention. Therapy being one of them. Having family and friends and people around you who can tell you this is wrong. People who can watch over you. People who can help you see. And it will take quite a long journey for you to believe because they have already turned you into an individual who is in need. It's like some form of drug addiction. Yes, you're so in need. And then they turn you into clingy. And any time you measure against someone else's requirements, you will always be lacking. So yes, it's a difficult one to do. I do not want to say it is easy. It is not easy. So for you to get out, you need help. Get a third party. A counselor, a psychologist, a third party, family, friends, spiritual leaders, correct? Spiritual leaders can also play a role? Yes, they can. When an abuser takes everything in like five years, you've lost contact. You've lost friends. You've lost relationships. You are empty. Even you lose even family. So when you are supposed to live, the abused will always ask a question. If I live, where will I go to? Now, let's talk about this abused. Yes. The family, you mentioned third parties. Yes. The family have noticed that the boyfriend of this woman or the fiance looks like an abusive man. We need to tell her to come out of that relationship. But this lady does not listen. This person is not doing anything to come out. In fact, the more you try to separate them, the more glued they are. Yes. You're trying to help them. And this could be your sister. You're saying, come out of this relationship. Come out of this relationship. And sometimes it could be, come out of this marriage. Even if it's a divorce, go get a divorce. They are advising you to get out of this. But it seems cumbersome. And if you do, you always go back. What abusers do? They study you. They know your greatest need. They supply it in plenty. And you're sold. Number two, they tell you, darling, I have enough, for example, you stay home, let's raise the family. Who it has badu is that loving. By the time you're done in two, three years, you don't have a penny. So why is it that these abused people don't want to live? They have no money. They have nowhere to go. For example, a common statement that I don't believe in. Let's have a joint account. Why should we? Okay. That's another discussion there. So this is a way to slowly deprive you of independence. Yes. So that the day you start thinking of going, it becomes impossible. Then great and good manipulators and abusers get a transfer, for example, and they get a job like in a place like Rwanda, Mombasa, away from your people and where you go, they make sure you are isolated. So it becomes very difficult for you to live. It becomes very difficult for you to realize this is where I am into. So living for them, everything has been taken away from them. So that is one thing abusers do. So when you don't have anything, you resign to your fate. Okay. Final question. Now this they abused, you've broken up with this guy and is this that part of, you know there's that season after break up where he texts you, calls you, keeps on coming around your place, apologizing, I'm sorry I hurt you, I'm sorry I did this, I'm a changed man now, I stopped this, I stopped that and it's this merry-go-round. You know you keep on, you break up, get back together, break up, get back together, how can you break this cycle, this merry-go-round and advise this woman who wants to break up with this guy but keeps on getting back together with him. If the lady is ready to break up, they need to do deliberate things. One, don't have communication. Block. Are you saying block? Don't have communication. Blocking is not a solution because if you block, they know other ways they can get you. If it is possible. If it is possible. Have a new line. Number one. Number two. Before you come. If you are so interested, not to get back to the cycle again. And now the question you've asked me, this is for someone who is liberated completely and they have made up their mind they want to live. Most cases it's not that way. So let me answer your question as you've asked. So because you want to live and you are tired. So number one. Change your line. Number two. Go away to where he does not know you. He does not know your relatives, your friends and everything else. So it becomes difficult because they are stalkers. They will track you. They will do everything. What if there are kids involved? This is an abusive man and you want to live. I will not even allow you to finish. What comes first? Is it a better dead mother or a alive mother who has ran away? If you want to answer me. Of course you both know. An alive mother. What comes first? Me or the pain I am going through? It calls for me to be aware and be ready to rescue me. And that's where we are. Because you see mothers will be thinking I will affect the life of these children transferring them to another school. Me shifting from this place to this place means moving them to another school. They are expenses that are there. When you introduce a twist to your question we will get to that one. Let's get first to the first question. This lady wants to live. You want to live? Yes. The first thing it's me, the lady, live. When you are safe, okay and better you can be able to fight now for the children. If the children are young the courts are on your side there is a lot of things that you can do. You can still get the children. We will hit the court but you cannot when you are in or when you've got a broken arm or a black eye. So if you're living, live. Make conscious, deliberate, move. Change your number completely. Your handset. Move to space where he can't reach you. He doesn't know. He will not be able to monitor. He will not be able to stalk you. Seek your healing. Discover the operations of your abuser. Restock and get energy. Knowing very well. I left my children who are young. I don't think they are safe. Or they could be safe. I do not want them to be raised by this abuser. So first of all the first person is you. When now you do that come another day and when you come make you a place of stay and all those things discrete. Abusers are real. Yes they are. They are real. I hope one day you will call me so that we can talk about this other group of people the psychopaths. They are worse now than now that's a common. That is called red. Oh lord. And you can't, you cannot you cannot sniff them. These are at higher level. So once you do that then you can be able to fight. Now I talked about the external world. You must have a good family. You must have a good support system. You must be having people who care around you. People who are willing to protect you. People who are sane. People who can see the abuser for who he is who are ready to push the abuser to some level. I want us to finish and I want to give you time just a few seconds to give us a parting shot and talk to Kenyans watching you this morning. That is your camera. What is your final word? Abuse in relationships is real. It kills and it destroys. When I talk of killing I talk of emotional death. We first die emotionally before we die physically. It is not okay to say I will change. I will transform this person because you in your capacity you cannot change the other person. Fear if you have the chance run. It is important for you to seek counsel, to seek help long before you enter into this kind of a relationship. They ensnia, they trap and eventually they chain and imprison you. You better watch because abuses are real people but they come camouflaged in all form of great men and women and they have got all manner of ways to entice and make you want more from them. But all this is carrot and stick. Thank you. Thank you so much for bringing me here. Thank you so much. How can someone get a hold of you if they want to? I practice at I'm stationed at View Park Towers just across here on the 15th floor Dough number 11 Wing C the name of the is called Puppas Counseling and Wellness Center and my number is 0722 W35 W82 One more time with that number. 0722 W35 W82 It's a better Yes sir. Thank you sir. It's an honor to be hosted by you. The pledge is all man. Time was not enough. I am shocked. We've What? We've gone more than an hour. We've gone more than an hour. But of course at business to the end of this morning discussion right here on why in the morning we've been talking about marasakusani in relationships. I hope you've learned something and after hearing from Inchimberi you're going to do something about it and as you said there's nothing wrong with you you can change. There's something that you can do about it. My name is Ram Magugo. It has been a pleasure being with you. Keep it while in the morning. We still have more coming up your way. Thank you brother.