 Hello, welcome. Welcome to Coast to Coast. My name is Lily Weinberg. I'm here joined with my colleague, Lily and Corral, and we are thrilled to have you today. Thanks so much for joining. Lily and can you kick us off and tell us a little bit about what we were doing with Coast to Coast. Yeah, it's our weekly show here at night. And then the community's program focused on basically the conversation that's happening in cities around whether it be public spaces. The way the technology is impacting our cities, the digital divide, etc. So kind of really just a weekly kind of conversation around the hottest topics in our community. Yep, and it's been a lot of fun. And today we are going to focus on new models emerging in public spaces. With our communities beginning to open up further with unprecedented demand for public spaces that we've seen in our own communities and with summertime around the corner. We'll be talking with two public space leaders that are really different on how they're managing this process. So let's get into how this crisis brings opportunity to experiment, opening up new partnerships, new ways to engage and design our public spaces. Lily and I know that that you've been really vocal about this, and both of us have seen this process literally play out in our own communities, you and LA me and Miami. What are you interested in hearing and learning today. So last week we had Carol Coletta Alexa Bush and Stephen Gray, and what struck me about that conversation was at separate times Carol and Alexa said you know public spaces are free or low cost Alexa said they should be, you know they should not be a privilege. So I'm really curious to see what Robert and Catherine talk about in terms of like, how do we sustain them and what do these models look like because, as you and I have discussed and I know our colleagues here at night. I'm curious about what the post COVID world looks like, especially for cities. And so how do we sustain these like really wonderful public space. I'm also really really curious about how and when do we open up playgrounds. We both have small children which we talk about here and there. And I'm like, what are the rules for opening up these playgrounds because I don't think my child can go on any more walks. I know. Yeah, that's right. I think that will be really interesting and we can we can tee up Catherine to be able to answer that. Great. Well, I'll see you in about 15 minutes Lillian and and I am thrilled to welcome my guests today. Robert Hammond and Catherine level. So I will take a second to introduce both. I won't read your full bios but Robert Hammond is the founder and executive director of the Highline and Catherine level is the Commissioner of Parks and Recreation for the city of Philadelphia. Thank you so much for joining us and taking 30 minutes out of your very, very busy day. How's it going. Great, great to be here a little. Good, good, good. So, so I want to just tee it up for for how this conversation is going to unfold we have 30 minutes together approximately you two will chat with me for about 15 minutes. And we're going to do rapid fire questions. Okay, and then Lillian will join and we'll be getting questions from the audience and and so audience members please ask your questions in the Q&A box. You're going to see that and we are monitoring those questions. If you're joining on Facebook live. You can ask questions there but hashtag night live. Okay. We'll jump in and spend about 10 minutes getting those questions and then we'll wrap it up. Okay, so it should be fun. All right, so Catherine I'm going to ask you the first question. So you've been very, very vocal about the essential service of parks during this time and you've been a great advocate. Can you set some framing for how you managed to keep parks open and what does that even mean that that parks are an essential service. Yeah, you know, since I've been in the parks and rec world over the past 10 years or so. You know, I think there has just been a shifting narrative in, you know, the role of parks and recreation and I think we've seen that narrative shift from oh, parks are, you know, it's an environmental issue or it's, it's, you know, it's about sustainability which of course it will be but we've seen a shift to move towards parks as civic infrastructure, you know, and I think there's a further shift that the, you know, COVID pandemic has has showed us that parks are an essential human and social service parks and recreation you know this isn't just about the environment this isn't just about infrastructure this is about an essential service that we provide to humans everywhere on our planet and you know when we were closing schools and closing gyms and closing, you know, so many, so many things throughout the country, parks for me to open and people, you know, were desperate for that and, you know, it's, it's, you know, not just the idea of the space but also the services that were providing and Philly, you know, we shifted gears completely to food access and we opened up, turned our rec centers into food pantries and started meal distribution and assigned staff to get, you know, get boxes of food packed for folks and so we are absolutely providing those essential services. The challenge is that, you know, we're never funded as an essential service so that shift has not happened. Narratively we have the shift but not, you know, financially. That's great. And so, Robert, you've been in a bit of a different situation. The Highline is fundamentally different and has different design and you've had to close down. And so what went into making that decision and have you been able to engage with your users and communities in other ways. Yeah. So the Highline is technically, we're classified as a building because we have limited exits. And so what is one of the Highline things most known for is being crowded. And so right as soon as this started happening, we realized we couldn't keep social distancing on the Highline. A lot of the Highline is only, the path is only eight feet wide. So we closed down about two weeks ago. And now what we're trying to do is figure out how can we open back up, how can we open in this completely new world in a safe way. And so it brings up a lot of interesting issues. I mean, there's some obviously, you know, so many bad things about this pandemic. One of the good things is we've all, we built the Highline for New Yorkers, but most of our users were tourists. And so now when we reopen, we're going to be mostly New Yorkers again. So that is one of the good things. And how do we, how do we open in a way that New Yorkers want us to open while keeping it safe. Yeah. And so this is really relevant for many of our audience members as they think about, you know, libraries or other post-industrial, you know, because the Highline is categorized as a building. So they're going to be thinking about many of the same things. And so I do want to dig in a little bit deeper with both of you about new partnerships. And so Catherine, one of the things that you talked about was food distribution and how that's been a service that's occurred in many of your parks. The other day in Miami, I was going out for a very early morning jog around 6am and there were cars lined up on my usually quiet neighborhood street because they were lined up to get their meals at the local park in my neighborhood. And so I would like to dig in, Catherine, with you a bit more about what are some of the new partnerships that you've seen that have emerged or been elevated in this crisis? Yeah, it's, you know, what we're used to talking about in the public space world in terms of partnerships is mostly, you know, nonprofit partners. And we have, you know, incredible nonprofit partners, you know, and Philly that support our work and we couldn't do our work without them. But, you know, at a time like this, the nonprofit community is struggling to right and they are, you know, fighting for their own survival right and trying to contingency plan and scenario plan for what the future of their organization looks like. So what's interesting to me is that I've seen a shift over the last eight weeks in that the folks that I'm leaning on the most during this crisis are fellow city agencies. So the National Parks and Work Association has set up, I have to give them a huge shout out because they've set up these weekly calls with urban park directors from across the country. So about 60 folks in my position in other big cities get on a call, you know, Zoom call every Friday at noon and it has, I'm clinging to that call, you know, because we're all making this up as we go. We're sharing information like crazy, you know, you did this, send me that deck so I can replicate and do that in Philly. Philly, somehow you made this happen. How did you do it? What's everyone thinking about? What's everyone's timelines? You know, what's it how's everyone's political dynamics working? What's happening with your budget and the information share is in real time and it's very dynamic and it's very honest and transparent. And that's not a partnership that that to be honest that we really exploited that much, you know, you're sort of an asylum mentality in big cities and you're so focused on your own, you know, dynamics and your own politics. But at a time like this, when everybody's trying to figure this out, that to me has been an incredible partnership to really get to know at a time of crisis these other park directors and, you know, just trust their advice and their insight and we're all learning and moving together. And Robert, I mean, you, you've set up a network that has been able to support the Highline Network, which we, we was a partner last last week in our coast to coast. I know for a fact, I serve on the board of the underline, that network has been just extremely important for for figuring out, you know, the next steps for COVID-19. But the same question for you. I would like to know, I mean, as you're, you're still not open yet, you're figuring out how to open. So how will the Highline look different and what are some of the emerging ways that you see new partnerships for for whatever the new Highline will look like. Yeah, well, you know, what we reflexively when we want to go back to community we want to know what they want to do us to do when they want us to open how they want us to open. But for a lot of people that's not their primary concern they don't really give that people are trying to survive not caring necessarily about when they go on the Highline. So one of the things we did is try to figure out what could we do in the short term in this emergency. So we partnered with our local city councilman who's also the speaker Corey Johnson who offered meals part we partnered with fresh direct to offer boxes that would last families for a week. We had our staff and volunteers make calls to seniors in the neighborhood to make sure they were getting the services they need. So sort of leaning back on these relationships that we built up over over the past 20 years. You know, physically, the one of the biggest questions I get asked about the Highline and how are the plants, because our gardeners haven't been up there. And luckily this is the best time a year for people not to be up there and we've had a really cool spring, but we're working to get them back up there. It's also a resilient landscape. It's a lot of native plants and so our gardeners say it's going to look different forever and maybe in good and different ways. We want to leave parts of it so you can actually see how this time affected the plants. And then on the network, you know, a lot of people think the Highline network is something where we're teaching others, but it's really how do we all learn from each other because I've learned so much from it's been fascinating to hear what the Beltline has been doing because they are a very busy park on an old rail line that has actually been open. So we've learned from a lot from them how they've been able to stay open through this. This is a transportation corridor so I mean that's been critical for them to stay open. In the chat function we're going to link to the Highline network because they are still accepting applications for as part of their network until May 31. So with that, I want to pivot a little bit. I want to talk about, you know, how this crisis perhaps has spurred some creativity. And in particular, Catherine, I want to dig into what have you seen that's potentially been creative, you know, from creative thinking from COVID-19. And I would love for you to highlight the expansion of Play Streets, which we're also going to link to that new article about how the Play Streets program has expanded in Philly. Yeah, you know, we've definitely had to be creative and think on our feet, which is, you know, it can be a little challenging when you're in city government to be nimble, but it's certainly been something that we've needed to do. And, you know, Play Streets are really, it's interesting because, you know, as we think about what's the summer going to look like, are we going to be able to host summer camps, you know, we did cancel our pool season so we know pools aren't going to be open. You know, kids have been cooped up for, you know, two months, going on almost three months. And, you know, as you said, us as parents and as residents in the city, we know that, you know, kids need to be outside. They need to be, they need to have some safe, fun structured activities. And so we looked at this program that's been happening in Philly for 60 years, which is our Play Streets program, which is basically a meal distribution program, you know, from the 1960s that we still do. And through Play Streets and our summer camps we serve, it's a meal distribution program primarily. We serve 20,000 meals a day at 150 summer camps and 350 Play Streets. And basically, a resident can just apply to have their street designated as a Play Street, which means we'll deliver meals and they can close the street every day between 10 and 4. You know, it has to have certain criteria. It's a one-way street. It's a non-numbered street and not a bus route. But, you know, they're really popular and it's very grass roots. And so we look, we're looking at Play Streets to say, if kids can't get direct centers, how do we get to the kids? You know, how do we meet the kids where they are this summer? Not just with a meal, but with fun, safe, structured activities. And so we're doing these, we're planning these Play Street enhancements. We're not exactly sure what that's going to look like yet, but, you know, just an extra something for young people this summer in their own neighborhood, right on, right outside their front door where we can, you know, connect them with some caring adults and some socially distanced, appropriate funds. Fun activities and gifts, you know, to make the summer, you know, it's going to be a summer like no other, but it doesn't have to be a bummer of a summer. You know, it can still be fun and joyful. And that's going to be our whole group Play Streets. And what I love about this program is that it's so simple. I mean, it's literally, from my understanding, it's a rope, right? That goes up, you know, on the side of the street and then, you know, you can really take back your street as a public space, which is simple but is hard to do. And then I also love that it's within the hands of the neighbors, the neighbor leaders, and it's really driven by community. So I love that. Last question before we pivot and invite Lillian and I'll start with you, Robbie, is, you know, of course there's extreme economic and operational challenges facing our cities. And so I would love to hear from you about how you're trying to lead with equity and inclusivity and the recovery. Yeah. I mean, I think one thing is, is how if we open with limited capacity, so we're not going to be able to have, you know, we used to have 65,000 people and on a weekend day on the high line. Now we're not going to have quite the demand because we're going to have less tourists, but I think we're going to have more New Yorkers. So how do we open and make sure everyone is welcome. I think that's the biggest, to people outside the parks world, I think they think, well, if something's free and open to the park, doesn't everyone feel accessible to it, but that's definitely not the case. Just because you're open and free doesn't mean everyone feels welcome. And so I think we sort of have some opportunities here. How do we tailor how we open to make sure everyone feels it specifically for them. Another thing is, you know, for a lot of, for the past few years, we've been dealing with over success. I mean, that's what's the story of New York too many people too much money in two, in two few places. And so now we're going to New York is going to be having an existential crisis of how does it survive, how does culture and culture I mean, museums and parks survived because they're sort of, they're the first thing that usually gets cut on the funding. And how does it return and I think there is some opportunity, how it's going to shift away from tourists and more focused on New Yorkers. Yeah, I think that is really interesting how the Highland will will be become more hyper local. So that that isn't that is an opportunity. So we're going to pause here we're at 15 minutes. I'm going to invite Lillian to to hop in and Lillian's been getting questions from the audiences, the audience and and then we'll, we'll close. Thanks. Thanks, Lily. So fascinating conversation Catherine and Robbie. One thing, a couple things have come up so we're trying to get through it but the first thing I guess I wanted to talk about was the point of round culture that you just brought up Robert there's a couple of questions around the role of artists, perhaps partnerships with artistic institutions and public spaces. And then also like, what do we do with a lot of these interactive type of experiences that we've tried to do in the past when we've tried to bring art into public spaces now in this world where we can't be all touching the same thing. Any thoughts on on that for me. Yeah, you know, I think this is going to be a real opportunity for parks to really flex that art muscle. It's something we've done since we've opened is we display public art that normally you would see in museums or galleries and bringing it out into the public it's always changing. And it's been one of the most popular programs we've done and I think it will be more so and I think you're going to see a lot more of that. There are parks that have not done that partnering with institutions that aren't going to be able to show as much art. And so I'm really excited about that we're going to be summer we're going to be showing our next. We have something called the plant that's right over 10th Avenue it's a big, we have an amazing Simone Lee piece there, and we're going to be showing the 80 submissions of that in the past we hadn't made all those public, but we want to bring the public into that process. What would they want to see, you know, in their home. And Catherine for you in terms of as a city parks commissioner like how do you, how do you see the kinds of partnerships that Robbie describes in terms of bringing arts into the space. Yeah, we're more thinking about it from a programming standpoint and you know it's just like kids might not be able to get to rec centers they they're not going to be able to get to museums in the same way that they were in field trips as we know it are like, we're not going to pause right now and so we're again talking to tons of arts organizations locally about play streets about other programming that we do, because one thing we always say is we have access to kids. So, if you have stuff you want to get to kids you know like we can get you to the kids, you know just so so I think it's really about us it's in the government being open to those partnerships. And giving people the opportunity the avenues to find a way in to work with the audiences that we're serving and all of the residents and and again I think it's time for arts organizations to everybody's got to be nimble everybody has to be, you know, creative in not just artistic practice but in their logistics and their operations you know how do we you know again if we can't if you is the kids can't get to you how do you get to the young people how do you get to the communities and some of the local arts organizations that were planning to work with this summer have been thinking about that and so we're really excited. That's a good segue to the next question that came up which is, what are ways that nonprofits can support parks and public spaces. And do you have any like quick, quick guides. Yeah, we're, I mean, we're, we're going to, we're seeing a $13 million budget cut that's 20% one fifth of our budget is gone for for FY 21. You know, just based on the calls I got, you know, yesterday around trash and parks over the weekend were to stay at home order and Philly and our parks are still slammed and there is, you know, more trash than ever and to be honest, we're not just behind on hiring our seasonals because we've been closed for eight weeks but we don't you know we're going to be short on over time on seasonal employees we're not going to be able to hire the same at the same level we were and, you know, my message to our 110 park friends groups and our advisory group is we're going to need your support now more than ever I mean you're going to have to fill in with, you know, we're pretty critical city services fall short, at least for the next year or so. I just want to jump in there just yeah, this is where I think we're going to have to have a new conversation about public funding of parks, public funding of parks has gone down and most cities even as the economy has gone up, and you're going to see a lot of impacts to parks when they're more needed and so I think we need to do as and not money for the High Line but for parks. You know, just, there's the rank and fall parks that don't have a private group raising money for them. And I think we're going to all need to band together to make that a really important conversation and so I urge people, let your elected officials know that the number of public funding parks are and they're a tiny miniscule, it's less than one half of 1% of the New York City budget, but everyone is using them right now and so I think that's where we just need to let our elected officials know that we we we that's where we want our tax dollars going. Last week, this point was made that we really need to think about that funding conversation is one of like one more around the terms of economic development like what parks bring into cities and things like that on the economic development argument. Catherine, do you think that's the right approach or what are some other ways that you think we can make this case clearly that these spaces are important to maintain. So I had the luxury of being on both sides right like I ran a park conservancy and I raised money for parks and now I'm running a city agency and when I was on the nonprofit side I was like, you know, I still am like we have to, we have to fund our parks fairly and we have to fund our parks, you know, especially the parks that can't raise money for themselves, you know, we have to, we have to support them now that I'm on the, you know, and I'll say in the first three weeks of this crisis, you know, I was incredibly optimistic because I kept reading all of the top ads and the social media posts of how how essential parks were and their sanctuaries and we love them and what where would we be without them. And yet, you know, when push comes to shove our budget gets cut by $13 million. Now that said, if I want my our mayor Jim Kenny who I love and who's been a huge advocate of parks. What choices can I make on this. We have a city with 25% poverty. You know, we have a pandemic that has hit our city. You know, when you have to make really critical choices because our parks department is funded out of the general fund. You know, you have to make those choices. And so I think that it is a does have to be about where else can the money come from what other types of dedicated funding streams. Can we identify for parks because when park systems rely on the general fund for their budget. It doesn't work. Rob, any any other comments on that or I think something Steven Gray said last week that was really important. I mean the reason the high line exists is because we made the economic argument to the city. But now what I'm seeing more of is parks making the equity argument that that parks and that parks not just in wealthy neighborhoods, but I think the 11th street bridge in Washington is a great example. That's been their primary driver and if people haven't looked at it. It's worth looking at their Equal Development Plan. And they're getting funding because of that argument, they're making the economic argument but they're making the argument this makes good sense for preserving neighborhoods, not just changing and bringing new economic development. So I think it's paired. But the national, I think we also have to make it on a national level that at some point we're going to have an infrastructure bill. And parks are never part of that infrastructures are thought of as bridges and roads and parks are critical as Eric Kleinberg has said on this. And I think that our civic public infrastructure and we have that and I also think that that the conversation there's also a lot of state and federal money around social service funding and human service funding. And I think that you know from a from a mental health physical health standpoint that we have to start to weave parks into that conversation to because making parts part of civic infrastructure is just going to get us capital dollars and what we need is operating dollars we need boots on the ground who are supporting these communities in a way huge opportunities around employment and workforce development right I'll take money from wherever we can get it I just don't necessarily think it needs to come from the general fund that's also supporting police and fire and schools and everything else. So it definitely sounds like different kinds of partnerships are going to have to come together to really make this case because it seems like it's also a collaboration. You're mentioning social service agencies and parks and we're talking about artistic institutions. Do you think there is a challenge. There's going to be any challenge in fostering that kind of collaboration. And my next question that came up is what is the role of public engagement. How are you asking the public for their feedback, but also to your point. Robbie like if you if we want them to call our elected officials how are we how are we communicating with them about about this, the urgency of public spaces and the value of them. Well, if you know park advocates you never have to ask for their feedback. They're quite proactive. But good. Well I think the challenge for us is a lot of the people that yes we have some people that we hear feedback from all the time. One of the challenges is how do you get people that are not engaged in the process to be part of the process so for example this issue of how do we open. We had a hard time engaging with people we have to large low income housing developments next to the Highline. So it was hard enough when we could meet with them in person what do you do when you can't do anything in person. And there's this digital divide. We have elderly residents how do we engage with them when we can't even do it in person. And so I think that it's one it's an opportunity because we're going to really have to figure that out literally in the next few months of how do you do that and one of the good examples of people who do this right is politicians because they're going to they're going to figure out how to get every single voter. And so looking at how do campaigns, you know, mobilize communities. And so I think that's where we can take a playbook from them and starting to look at some of their technology they use totally agree. And then the last question sort of related to that there's a lot of great questions again on the on the q amp a thank you everyone for participating is how do we and you were talking a little bit before we started about this, both of you. How do we actually design these spaces with the six with the six foot requirement and make sure that there's still sort of the welcoming spaces we're seeing a lot of issues, Catherine in public parks where people are just not keeping distance. And again, any thoughts or best practices was the question around how do we make sure and think through the six foot role. I think what New York is done around the social distance ambassadors has been fantastic. We're taking we're literally just like replicating that exact program. And Philly we're looking at how we can do that I think, you know, having people who are not law enforcement out there educating and engaging not enforcing but educating and engaging folks around why why we're doing this why it's important. What it can mean, you know, I think I think you have to meet people where they are you know we've tried signage we put up 7000 signs, regular signs long signs small signs big signs on a box signs you name it we put up the signs. It's a little bit like white noise right now so I think you know the idea of meeting people where they are and what New York has done has been really great. Great. Any other thoughts, Robbie and then. All right, well thanks so much for answering our questions Lily and you want to come back and close it out for us. Yeah, yeah, thank you Lily and that was that was awesome I feel like we could go for another 30 minutes. Thanks so much for for the good conversation. We have an audience full of practitioners so I want to I want to give the opportunity for for both Robert and Catherine for you to just leave just any any final remarks any final advice. Just 30 seconds so Catherine. So everybody should continue to love their parks and you know just take care of each other and stay safe and you know and advocate and love your parks. And Robbie, thank those people that are working in their parks because they're under so much pressure and so much work and having to deal with all this so you know thank you Catherine and thank you. For all of you out there that are you know in this field that are working every day so I thank you and I hope you'll remember to thank them when you see them. That's right well well thanks to to both of you for for joining us today. We had a really great conversation and I appreciate really a call to action for for more investments in our in our public spaces and which I think is very important. And so, so coast to coast, every Tuesday at 1pm. And our next episode will be talking about taking back our streets during COVID-19 new possibilities for public spaces and our downtowns and recoveries. So, so that should be a really interesting episode. Roberts and Catherine. Thank you so much for joining us. Lillian. I'll see you back here at the same time. Bye.