 Good morning and welcome to CSIS for those of you who haven't experienced our beautiful new building. I hope you enjoy it I'm John Alterman. I'm the director of the Middle East program and it's my great pleasure to introduce to you Walter Douglas Walter was with us as a visiting fellow a couple of years ago and worked on a very interesting project on engaging audiences in Muslim majority countries and and the point that Walter was trying to work through was this problem That he'd been out in the field and Felt that that Washington was somehow disconnected from the field and there had to be a way To not only go from Washington out, but also to the field in especially when you're trying to Pursuade audiences Walter and I actually met out in the field. We met in Riyadh several years ago when he was Spokesman for the embassy there Walter for those of you who know him has had a large string of jobs Talking to Muslim audiences on behalf of the United States not only in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan where he was just before he came To CSIS now. He's in India which has one of the largest Muslim populations in the world, although it's not a Muslim majority country I went and saw Walter in India about a year ago and Walter brought the same Combination of intellectual acuity and enthusiasm Which so much of us have come to appreciate through his career Walter start off in advertising something I found a little bit surprising because Walter has been focused from the beginning and How do you actually speak to audiences? Not only telling the audience what you want the audience to know But how do you tell the audience in the way the audience wants to hear and Walter? Did something that I think very few people in the State Department are able to do not only did he sit down and Put his thoughts into a document a document, which I hope you'll read But then he did what a lot of State Department officers do is then he went through the clearance process That explains a little bit of why Now that he's been in India for a year. He's back with us. I am delighted to welcome him here I'm delighted to hear some of the ideas he conveys in his presentation And then I'll look forward to helping moderate a discussion with all of you on his findings So ladies and gentlemen, Walter Douglas John thank you very much for the introduction as John said we met in Riyadh in 2006 when I was the PA over there and actually I see Bob Keith who was in Riyadh with me also at that time but anyway, we hit it off and I've always found him to be one of the sharpest observers of what's going on in the Middle East and I find myself still quoting him on What's going on? Over the years, so it's it's wonderful to be back here with John and when I was at CSIS I sat up with the Middle East program of which John's the head and so was able to benefit from his input and specifically he read this report twice First time taking a very rough piece and shaping it and then second time refining it So it would be nothing it'd be a shadow of itself without John's input. So thank you very much I'd like to just thank a few other people who are here today Before I get into it one is I should thank the State Department for giving me the detail to come over to CSIS and it was Really an eye-opener for me and a lot of the strategic thinking I learned when I came here I've been able to give back to the State Department in many of the things that we're doing in India today I'd also like to Jeannie Neal is sitting up here in the front You'll I will might refer to we sometimes and she was with me She was the intern on the project and knew nothing about public diplomacy I think what she started and left as an expert But she went through more reports and that sort of thing like ever imagined was a fantastic research assistant So I just want to thank her and I see her up there and you'll see her name is on the report as well Terrence Smith is here somewhere Terrence was at CSIS with me And then he went to Fletcher and came out as an intern in India this summer And he actually helped do some logistics to finish up the report And then of course nothing is final without thanking my wife and my family who were over there And so they put up with me going to places like Riyadh in Islamabad without them And probably drove the family a bit crazy that way, but I must say the result was I got to do this report and And see a lot more of the world that was very interesting. So thank you John was hinting at you know why this report, you know What was the origin of it and I hope some of you have had a chance to read it it came up it went up on the CSIS website last week and I'm not going to go through it blow by blow because I think you can read it But I just want to point out some of the things of how this came about and where it takes us But I mean the as John said it was just fascinating as we looked at 26 reports since 9-11 dealing with the Middle East and The most amazing thing is how few of them had spoken to the officers in the field Yes, there are bits and pieces here and there, but nobody had really said how do you actually do this stuff? Overseas and the sense so we had we had a lot of advice coming out from here But the best that they could come up with isn't the overriding recommendation is just give public diplomacy more money That's easy to do, but money doesn't solve all your problems It's how you actually use it and how you employ it when you're overseas And so that was one of the incentives for doing this what actually goes on over there How does it work? And so over the years, I've been associated with public diplomacy for quite a while And it's been the past ten years really working in that region the era of Middle East Pakistan Afghanistan and so it's a look at what our officers are doing in that region to come up with a number of suggestions the challenges what faces us out there I've stayed away from policy because that's really the White House's prerogative But really as implementers, what do we do overseas when we get there? I would like to say I have taken in a lot from what I've seen and heard but everything I put in this report is mine It is not the State Department's report. I came over on a detail, which means I could do some independent thinking So I just like to make that because that was important through that clearance process That I make sure I speak in my voice and nobody else's One of the Something else that that really I think was very interesting coming out of this is sort of defining what public diplomacy is There's been a lot of talk about that since 9-11 But basically and there's been a lot of reporting out I don't think public diplomacy officers were active to ask to actually define what it is and one thing that was really Striking I'm just gonna one thing that came out in the report by find a very interesting part of it is we get it We hear a lot about messaging Washington, are you messaging or you're getting this message right? But public diplomacy really is something larger than that Messaging is certainly something we do in the press we get out there, but public diplomacy is a full panoply of programs and Platforms that we use to Engage the audiences out there to make them more receptive towards American foreign policy Well messaging's one what we really spend most of our money on actually these public diplomacy programs that go on overseas Adam Aroly who Was as always pointed out he repeats it so often I can actually say something it really is the sum of these two these two things Adam's no longer with the State Department, so I guess I can mention that and it's certainly true We probably spend three-quarters of our money working on programs such as Fulbright international visitors and really targeting those people that We think can make a big difference to the opinion landscape that's out there and that way in sense You have the rifled effect of targeting certain people who we think are very important Then the shotgun effect when we use the media to reach broader audiences And I think that's something that back in Washington was not fully understood and that's something I really wanted to put in the report That it's not just messaging how you get your word out It's not just messaging how you engage foreign audiences and it's not just messaging how you sort of make them see what we're doing and Show them we've got a point of view. That's very respectable I Think it's important if you look at the cover of the report if you see who's on there It's not a spokesman who's on there that is actually an English teaching officer He's someone who was in Pakistan with me And I thought that he really stood for that that other side of public diplomacy that isn't often reported But the fact is English teaching is something we use very effectively out there We target to certain audiences that we think perhaps are more at risk And but it's it's a way that we get out our word To a different audience and give them a broader sense of what's going on in the world And maybe they'll be able to inform other people about what's going on as well as get ahead in their own lives Because English is such an advantage to anyone out there But I thought it was really important to have that on the cover and not a spokesman at a podium Finally I'd like to say just for a wrap up why the report I think there's something else that motivates a lot of us public diplomacy officers in the field are very patriotic and So many of us just feel really strongly about what we're doing But nobody had really looked at who we were and what we were doing in a sense. This is a report I wanted to come out and say here's how we see what's going on overseas Here's how how we think it should be implemented This is how we will take something that comes from the White House and then shape it for the audiences out there But in a sense the heroes of my report is that public diplomacy Function in the State Department and they really are the ones who are charged with leading the public diplomacy efforts worldwide But I wanted to sort of tell their story and get out what goes on And so that's why I took what I've got here as I spoke to public diplomacy officers and non-public diplomacy officers And over the years I've been engaging on this This is a summation of this but I really wanted to get that story from what goes on over there Because I think the real heroes here are all these my colleagues in the State Department That are overseas working in very difficult environments trying to get that word out and engaging audiences and making them more receptive towards our policy initiatives If you look at the report itself, and I don't want to go through it all but basically I think as I said earlier I haven't engaged in the policy structure because that really is something the White House does But I very much done is try to sort of give a how-to outline of how we do it overseas some of the challenges and opportunities We have and just to highlight a couple of them More than a couple, but one thing I think is very interesting is when we approach societies I divided it in this for the report's sake in telling America's story versus engaging behaviors and attitudes within a country And I think a lot of people are sort of unclear exactly which one do we put emphasis on and what I've said is I've said throughout this report is Every country is going to be different and that's why the guys in the field are so important because they can help us work through What goes on out there, but to everyone should weigh up what are we trying to do here? Are we trying to engage to tell them about what we're doing about our policies? Or do we want to actually take people overseas who might turn into turn violent and sort of make it so okay? They don't take that route not that they know they're going to love us But simply that they don't go the violent route and I think in this part of the world after 9-11 It's a question we have to ask and every country is different out there every one of them Will have a different percentage assigned to one side or the other, but it's one thing I wanted to highlight Very much, and I think not everybody understands that we sort of have these dual functions out there. I Also felt and I mentioned this in the report that sometimes we even need a third office And we created one in Pakistan really to engage on that changing attitudes and behaviors a little different than traditional press work or cultural Affairs work and exchanges and that was really important to put out there that there are a number of different ways You can approach this question even outside the existing structure in the embassies in places like Pakistan and Afghanistan We have so much money that's given to us to do public diplomacy We have the luxury of being will create anything we want and that's what I was trying to capture here But I think even offices without all those resources can do a lot to change things and to relook at the structure of what they do Another point I brought across all the time is the diversity of audiences One thing is you do hear people say the Muslims or something like that And I really want to say there are many different audience and many different types of Muslims believing a lot of different things out there What's important is I think people in the field become very attuned to that right away and understand certain communities Believe one thing other communities believe another Sometimes when you're back in Washington people don't understand those those differences so well And I thought it was really interesting to sort of look at how the field looks at when they get into a country Trying to size up who's what who is more susceptible to a message Who do we have to work harder with who's important who's not that sort of thing? But the diversity out there is incredible It also ties in with The need therefore to speak to these people in the languages that they speak and I say this in India It's very funny. I constantly bring this up. You ever see two Indians speak in English to each other Basically unless they don't have an Indian language in common In which case they will use English, but even the best English speakers guys without an accent our embassy will speak Hindi to each other You get the same thing out in the Middle East You can have people who can communicate wonderfully in English, but the moment they engage each other they're using their own language Therefore as public diplomacy practitioners, we need to be in those languages. It's where they say what's most important to them It's where you basically have to listen to them to what they say not rely on English It's kind of interesting those English language newspapers you see out there I remember actually in Pakistan. I was speaking to a An editor I said could you tell me what what are these about? He said these are for you the foreigners in other words this is not something that Pakistan issues to communicate with each other and And I thought that was a really important insight and it's one thing is we have to make sure we don't rely on the English Language out there to try to interpret what's going on because that's not where the real action is It's in the vernacular and it's very important to be there. I Wanted to talk a bit about security which I did in here and I said I made us you know Obviously in Afghanistan Iraq Pakistan and Libya and Yemen could go into it today Security is a huge concern for us But in the other places while we do have these embassies that are much more secure than anywhere else Real public diplomacy work takes place outside of embassies In fact, I even argue that the people we want to reach generally don't come into our facilities That's where the real value is going into their institutions and meeting them out there And I think that's something I quoted Thomas Friedman who came to I remember a turkey after the The bombings that in Turkey he looked at our new iman consulate and remarked how how this was a bad message It can be or it's a difficult message out there It can be but it's public diplomacy offers the fact that officers you get out of that environment And you want to go to the people who who really don't care what our what our embassies and consulates look like and that That's absolutely vital and that's why that's not such a key stumbling block for public diplomacy officers Except in those very high-risk security posts that I just mentioned But it's very important to see these other places you get out and that that's what public diplomacy officers do Finally or not finally sorry For next steps in the report, and I hope you do all get a chance to read it Set out a series of recommendations. I think one thing that was very important for them is and I go back to those 26 reports written since 9-11 The one recommendation as I said for everybody was to spend more money on public diplomacy that's not going to happen and Basically what I tried to come up with or I said genie with genie's help Was to we came up with we're low-cost or no-cost solutions because the State Department's not looking to dump tons of money into something New and in this budget environment, it's going to be a while before they're able to do that And so I think what we came up with a lot of things we can do by certainly shifting emphasis Looking at the field a little bit differently real things that the State Department could do actually I believe that some of them are underway to a certain extent And I'm looking forward to this afternoon going and speaking to a lot of people to find out just where we are that way in in in the State Department Finally, let me wrap up and say The limitations of this report or it's a just report the limitation is obvious It just dealt with one part of the world, but there is a whole world out there people said why didn't you cover Indonesia? That's that's Muslim or something Muslim majority. I think be great if somebody does I'm certainly in India now I'm finding a whole series of public diplomacy Ideas that are different than I had my report because I'm dealing in a totally different environment But we're running a country where we're working with a country with say 60 to 70 percent approval ratings Very different than what we had in the region that's covered in this report So what what I'm what I'm saying is there were there were limitations Just because of time money effort all that sort of thing But I'm hoping this will spark more reports to actually look at what we're doing overseas I think this is an absolutely vital area that we understand public diplomacy. I'm delighted I'm going over the State Department actually to speak to a number of people who do that and I'm going to give them a Mini report on my report and talk about the importance of what goes on in the field as something very different than what they've seen here I'm gonna stop there what I'd really like to do. I hope I've given you a bit of an overview here I hope you've got a copy of the reporter if you read it or looking forward to reading it Because I think there's a lot here that really will define something. It hasn't been seen before I was really glad that some of the academics that I brought into this project said, you know We have not had a report from the field and they've been eagerly awaiting this and as John mentioned It was a little delayed in coming out the research it for this basically ended the summer of 2012 but But now they have something in the public diplomacy courses where they can actually look at What we're doing in the field and try to make some judgments that might be a little different than what we'd hear if they were Aligned solely on on on material coming out of here. So thank you very much and I'll look for some questions and answers Thank you, Walter as you suggest there's a lot to chew on there One thing that you didn't talk about at all in your report really was the issue of metrics and One of the things I see in the State Department Is a fascination With metrics for social media because social media tends to produce very precise metrics From your position in the field What is your sense of the role of metrics? How do you use them and how are people misusing metrics? In ways that we have to Metrics is a question that is really a difficult one for public diplomacy You mentioned I was in advertising before and you always had does the product sell or not? It was a very interesting metric and if it didn't sell well, they fire the ad agency So you would pay that way not that it was always the ad agency's fault, but they usually tended to blame the ad agency's first Metrics are something that is very difficult We know that public diplomacy and USIA contributed to the decline in the fall of the Soviet Union But nobody's been able to measure exactly how that happened We've talked about it, but it did play a role in undercutting the intellectual livelihood of the Soviet Union When we get to today trying to measure metrics, it's very difficult because you can measure inputs But you can't measure outputs There is some work done and the private sector mostly looking at when someone takes an action to understand that they have Absorbed that idea so example. I mentioned it's not just the tweet you do It's the retweets that you have to count that you've actually scored something with this That's one way we do it But nobody's really come up with an idea that says they have changed their way of looking at the United States Based on what we have given them many have tried to do that very difficult to do But I did come up with the recommendation and this is in in over the years speaking to hill people Hill staffers is they have said one thing we need our narratives about what you're doing How does this stuff play out writ large and it's something I think we can all improve our In what we're doing is putting together all these public diplomacy programs around the world in certain areas say what are they achieving? What are we what message are we getting out pointing to some success stories not having the exact metrics saying we move the needle from from You know 50 to 60, but simply saying we are putting out these ideas there It is a concerted effort it makes sense and if your narrative makes sense people can probably trust that you're on to something I think that's one of the recommendations I have there is get up to get out to the hill get back to the State Department for the field more with these narratives about what's going on And would that suggest that that the number of people engaged the number of people Who are in our audience is Less important than creating a dynamic and we we need to be more tuned to the dynamics We create rather than the size of the audience I mean, it's it sounds to me like you're recommending a sort of looking at waves and and creating ripples rather than Rather than trying to measure the force. Uh-huh. Yeah, I think that's right If you go on broadcast television, you get huge numbers How many of those people are important to the influencing policy? That's a that's an open question We have those exchange programs and other things we do on a narrow basis where we said that's someone who's important to the debate We want to expose them or maybe get the person on an exchange program with the United States where they can see what we do So you're making judgments all the time about the value of the audience. It's out there some more valuable than the others When you put it together, you try to then draw the conclusion of what you're getting out there What words going out there? How much you're you're you're causing a debate but to actually measure the impact is difficult But you've got to put all these factors together on that one idea You want to get across then maybe there's another idea and how those blend together, but you've got to use all these tools They're probably at any one post you could easy drop a PD toolkit that would have 25 things that are up that we basically use And it's all from using our local staff in the vernacular language to using the ambassador as a speaker to using an econ Officer as a speaker using exchange programs to bringing out speakers Into these countries all these different things in our toolkit to get the message out hitting different audiences that we think are important But how you measure that impact where it moves the needle. That's very good as a manager How do you think about the problem as you allocate your resources across the entire toolkit? at the beginning of Going anywhere. I think you have to sort of sit back and say what our objectives here and try try And this is something I learned at CSIS and going through a number of exercises with you and others around here Was trying to say what the goals are up front and don't worry about the implementation right away But simply set up the strategic goals I think there's a tendency often to mix implementation and strategic goals And you've got to really see them as something separate and then go reach into that toolkit of what works best in that environment And that becomes a judgment call. It's probably more an art than a science But for example, if you're in a very open country like India, you can do a lot of things I guess I'm getting out of my my Where the report is you might have difficulties in other places where it's more closed and in the Middle East you find a tremendous variety of Country some more open than others But some can surprise you certainly when I was in Riyadh I was amazed at how how open they were to have to engaging on so many topics that people probably outside of Saudi Arabia Don't realize and when you were over there I think you've been able to engage quite a few audiences and you sort of know that receptivity to what's going on Anyway, you try to judge. What's the best way to engage the audiences? I want to reach and usually there's always a blend of those two things the broad media with a more narrow Targeted approach So let me just pursue one other line before we open it up. You Have mostly spent your career overseas But you had a lovely year in Washington when you were presumably part of a target For other embassies outreach programs for other embassies efforts at public diplomacy here in Washington Who do you think was especially good what kinds of things did you see as a target where you said, you know what I Recognize what they're doing and they're being effective And we should we should try to take a page from that and do it when we go overseas That's an interesting question. I guess when it struck me is how rarely I would think people did engage me You know often that the officers were working on specific countries that one embassy will engage them But engage you more broadly you don't come across it as much in the State Department That said you do end up with some events You do end up with certain things. You're at CSIS. I mean, we're Right when I was here. Yeah. Yeah, we engage with a lot of Audiences I have to say and it was it was very interesting. I don't think anybody targeted me the same way I would have expected And I would think they could probably do more of that. I think that the think tanks CSIS being my favorite obviously Have a lot of these ideas and a lot of these people they want to engage more with But I I don't see it as much as I would have expected and certainly when I looked at audiences I was here I went to other think tanks as well CSIS and I've looked at the audiences and I was sort of struck by There's some embassy people, but I would have expected more and I think probably the Maybe it's because I mentioned this the public diplomacy function the State Department is kind of unique other countries Don't seem to quite have it the same way And so I found that State Department people were Much more around the city getting around and I see that overseas engaging with think tanks overseas I know some other countries may be doing a bit less than we do and perhaps because they don't have a dedicated function They'll have a spokesman, but not a guy who sees that broader picture of how am I going to engage that foreign audience? How am I going to influence it about what we're doing? I see that less and less I As I look in the audience, I see a lot of people who know a lot more about public diplomacy than I do So let me turn it over to you. Yes, sir. Do you could do me a favor three things wait for a microphone? identify yourself and Ask only one question to have a chance to go around thank you so much Douglas a good presentation My name is Akbar Hwaja. I'm a World Bank retiree originally from Pakistan You recommended approach in Muslim country is the same yardstick for Kingdom like Saudi Arabia or you know military generals like you know some of the Middle Eastern country and Pakistan like a democratic country. Thank you. Yeah Well, one thing that really comes out here is is the variety that's out there and that we have to shift gears And I at one point I talk about like a good arabist can take 15 years of training kind of guy You can understand, you know Differences in the regional cultures the local cultures the different Arabic that's spoken out there So I think though what's important is I think we do recognize the diversity and everybody who works overseas sees that And what works in Saudi Arabia? Isn't necessarily something that's going to work in in Jordan They have different levels of openness for example in Saudi Arabia We had a American archaeology team out there and that was something kind of new and different but in Jordan They've had them there for 100 years even longer Or even going back into the Ottoman days. It's nothing special there or it's something special in Saudi Arabia It's different every country you have to sort of look at it as as a different activity And that's one reason why so much I believe and you have to have the guy in the field The man or the woman trying to understand and interpret these societies and then getting back and saying what works best here because as you said Some are open some have a democratic political process others don't other have a monarchy all these Systems really demand a different parts of the toolkit to go into action. How do you think about? Working a monarchy. I mean you're now in the world's largest democracy, but you've served in One of the world's most important monarchies How do you think about? the targets for public diplomacy in a system where you're not Trying to target elected officials. Yeah Some people say there's an audience of one when you have a monarchy, but I think it is much broader There are a lot of influences there the king goes out and regularly goes on on trips to meet his I guess his subjects and so there are a lot of people giving advice And so I think the important thing is who are those people who are opinion leaders there and you want to engage them as much as possible I think All over that region you deal with very bearing degrees of democracy and Lack of democracy, but you still always have people who influence the debate You're always gonna have a guy who will go on TV and talk about something Talk shows are huge business out in this part of the world those guys even if they support the government We'll have different ways of portraying it And then there are those who don't support the government so much. You'll have a different way So I think the key thing is to find out who are those people for example a systematic watching of television something kids are really good at is Can often you'll find who are the people who speak most about the subjects you want and within three weeks of say watching You can come up with oh, I'm noticing these certain people keep coming up and they are influencing the debate in some degree You probably want to engage those guys They're gonna be they're gonna be important to you And so I think it's listen look at look at who's out there and and come up with who are those people who are important It's not just the one guy at the top Hi Bruce Gregory George Washington University You make a strong case for looking at public diplomacy in the field and for the most part looked at the State Department's role in the field But you've also served in large platform embassies where there are a variety of departments and agencies of the US government and in India You have an annual strategic dialogue that involves many many different agencies Could you reflect on who does public diplomacy in the field in addition to the State Department? And what's the State Department's role in leveraging those actors? Yeah Well, certainly when I could think of in a lot of places USA ID and in Pakistan. It was a huge USA ID operation there In India, it's much smaller in other countries. It varies in Egypt. It's huge and it varies ever you go They are certainly influencing the public debate out there They do have a public role. It's a bit different than say what the State Department is They generally coordinate with us and everything they do and and so you hope there's a unified message going out But there are certainly key communicators when you're overseas, but there are some other agencies like that Health and human services can be a big one Generally doing CDC. There are all these other people are out there doing things the key thing is you want to capture a lot of the good works that they're doing and Explain why it's important what they do and show say that partnership between the United States and these other Branches of government. It's not just strict policy. There are a lot of these other other things that are going on It's important that people see that you're right though in my report I've really just focused on the State Department because as I mentioned we have the lead role But there are a lot of others who support the efforts and give a lot do a lot to to support public diplomacy It's coming Good morning. I'm Penn Agnew from the Bureau of Middle East North African Affairs at the State Department Walter and I worked together in the office of pressing public diplomacy Walter I'd love to hear your comments on how you approached issues of religious faith and tolerance both in Saudi Arabia And in Pakistan and some of the creative programs that I know you did in in Saudi Arabia I think would be of interest, but I'm what I'm really curious about is how you avoided an inflammatory Exchange or engagement but rather kept it more than a level of mutual understanding and of interest in The issue on both sides. Yeah Religion is a fascinating one. I speak about it. My report is that I think we have to realize Establishment clause isn't to avoid religion. It's a void to a specific religion and that it's a very effective way to engage people I keep thinking of someone who came out to Saudi Arabia and I was there Who is Jewish and his father had recently died and in the Jewish faith you read every day? Certain passages from the Torah elsewhere to honor your father and when he mentioned that to Saudi audiences said that's great Honoring your father through your religion. They just love that So here was someone where he was quite open about what he was doing religiously and they respected that I think we have to be open about that. It's something. It's very important for them There's probably there's much more religion in there in there in their daily debate Then you might find here and I think we can't shy away from that but rather embrace it as something that's that's very worthwhile and explaining Well, I guess I guess one thing that's explaining how the United States is religious That's always a surprise for audiences when they come here I quote a journalist who said when he was studying in Boston He was on my ten churches on his block or within a one block radius of where he was and he never realized Americans were so religious and Al Jazeera did a program on Islam in America and found out to their surprise that it was Pretty good and that the religious situation was good here I think that's something that is a barrier and and and breeds a lack of trust in who we are because religion is so important to them And sometimes what they see coming out of America is a television show in a movie or something like that It doesn't portray that as much as that is part of our lives I think in the State Department we have to embrace that not proselytize obviously I'm not saying that but be very open about that. We are religious and believe that too because it opens a lot of doors for you What when when when you speak about that the other piece of course is when American religious figures do things that are polarizing in the Middle East or seem to be disrespectful is there Is there anything you can do other than explain, you know Nobody speaks for the government and we have a big messy democracy We do that a lot And there are a couple of very well publicized cases recently in which we we need to consistently engage on that and try to explain the First Amendment The First Amendment is a tough one to because most countries don't have it I mean we're it in a sense and there are a lot more restrictions even in Western Europe on what you can say than the United States It's a hard concept to get across Because those people can use that and they generally can get a lot of press even though they have very small following in United States So while you can talk about the First Amendment You also have to explain that these are not mainstream people that what they're saying is not something that a lot of Americans are picking up or a lot of Americans feel Yes, certain ones do But the best the best offense is to be open as you can about it Don't try to ignore it. Don't try to hide it try to explain it and And in some ways let these let the message fall flat in the United States and say okay What effect has this had on what we do and often that the proof is it has very little effect on us so but we're constantly dealing with those those guys and It's it's troublesome It's but we we have to explain this is our society and how we do it but look at the results Do they throw back at us the same the same thing of all the people who are endorsing terrorism? You throw us all in the same. Oh, yeah in the same basket. Yeah. Yeah, that's right we hear that constantly how varied you know most of us are and When you're in the field you really get a good sense of that and appreciate it you realize most of them are like you and me you know, they just Want a little a middle-class life get their kids educated all that a lot of them recognize the problem. They've got When I was in Pakistan one of these guys a very senior government official I became friends with used to say, you know America don't abandon us. You're our best hope It's not a message. You hear back here very often, but it's sort of something that's felt there when I was right after we killed bin Laden, I was there and I was talking to the driver and he turned out he was from a bot about and I said wow Have you ever seen the house and where bin Laden was that he said? I haven't but my family is all going by it now Everybody's driving by and walking by and looking at it and he said, you know, I'm really glad you got that guy Because last August my brother-in-law was in a market in Peshawar and a bomb went off He was buying melons or something like that and and he was killed and so my sister and her three daughters or three children Don't have a father and she's moved back in with us And so he said these guys cause a lot of trouble here and I you know, I'm glad you did what you did That's a message. You don't hear back here as much But on a daily basis when you're out there you hear that a lot and these are people who are trying to distinguish themselves From the stereotypes of what Muslims are like and they're just speaking from their heart and you can't help But be affected by it and understand those those those differences in a society for the troublemakers out there Sure, there are but most of those societies know it as well, and they don't like it any more than we do Thank you question all the way in the back Thank you My name is Lynn while and like Penn and a number of others in this room I've overlapped with Walter professionally First while I was a Capitol Hill staffer and led a staff delegation to the region He was very gracious to help us with that and then later during his last days with the Undersecretary for Public Diplomacy and Public Affairs For whom I then worked for a year and a half now I'm at the Broadcasting Board of Governors where our governing board has an opportunity to change the Emphasies and focuses of the agency over time and in the wake of 9-11 for example They created the Middle East Broadcasting Network Alhura TV and Radio Sawa and I wondered well Walter if you'd like to address how the personalities and changing Emphasies of the Undersecretaries over time may have affected how the Muslim majority countries are approached either through the way the United States speaks to them through public diplomacy or programs that have been launched Or relaunched over time. Thank you That can be a minefield I could speak most about the one I worked for Judith McHale and Her approach was kind of different and one that I think still lives on today in a way I very much like and that is that when USIA merged with the State Department in 1999 It wasn't a complete merger and a lot of strategic planning function didn't follow from USIA And she'd been ahead of discovery and realized the importance of bringing that in and I thought she did a very good job of Giving us a tool to do strategic planning and to get us really focusing on that. This was 10 years after the merger and It's invaluable I think more work needs to be done on that But I certainly think this planning we've got limited resources and the more you can plan what's important and not spend your money And your resources on personnel and all that on what's what's unimportant that that makes a huge difference. I think one of the Most difficult thing about things about that position is how much it's been vacant and Matt Armstrong Has written about it in his blog a mountain runner about I think the position has been vacant about a third of its existence And the turnover has been pretty fast there that hurts public diplomacy We like to have people in there and and emphasizing what we can do and putting resources and giving some direction to what we do Why do you think it's been empty so so much? It's an interesting question. I would think there are a lot of people who want to do it and usually when I spoke to Spoken with them. They enjoyed it. Someone like James Glassman who only got six months at the job said he really had a great time and and wished he could do more and my sense is that It's harder. They have generally looked out At they don't use career people there. So to find the right person who's out there who they think can do the job They I mean seven four the State Department takes a little more time, perhaps than something else, but Probably every case is separate individual why one takes a long time to fill I mean Judith McHale came in quite quickly when the Obama administration came in so clearly, you know They moved very quickly to bring her in as fast as the confirmation process would allow I'm not sure why on an individual basis. The others took so long And I wish it it weren't like that Hi Walter Mike Schneider from the Maxwell school I wonder if you could describe for us some of the ways in which your program in Saudi Arabia tried to foster civil society Okay Well, I Guess I was there at a time 2006 2007 We just had a number of hot spectacular terrorist attacks earlier the Saudis were doing a lot on their own and have done a lot On their own for it, but I guess what we were just trying to present is a View of how the United States works is it maybe there's some things there they could see that would be worth borrowing and part of it was just exposing people to the United States in a way they never had before and It was everything from using Muslim Americans in Mecca to talk about things like how we deal with health problems To a photo exhibit that we worked with National Geographic with Tom Abercrombie their great Middle East guy really introduced the Middle East the United States and With that photo exhibit we could go to places that Americans traditionally didn't go we partnered with the so Saudi Ministry of Culture to do that and Hoping that when people saw that some of those those The extremists there would say well, maybe America is not all that bad and that therefore maybe dislike of America is not Something these extremists would say it's going to get us the mileage that there's another side that make them hesitate and say maybe you know Well, not all Americans are bad. I look right in front of you at Safiya Khilji who was with me in Saudi Arabia who was very innovative and going out and working with a lot of these communities and places where American embassy people have not been before and She was a wonderful asset to have with us But I think just the exposure to an American like that could talk to them somewhat about about who they were There was a another project out there that I greatly admired and that was It was a breast cancer project tying up Susan B. Coman Foundation with MD Anderson out in Texas and Breast cancer was a terrible problem there and Saudi Arabia was not equipped to handle it And so tying the awareness of Susan B. Coman with the treatment of MD Anderson was a wonderful project out there that Women came together but fully supported by men. They all have wives daughters and that sort of thing And that I thought was just a brilliant program to sort of show How you can tackle this problem in what you might say civil society in a very very fine way Using us as the example because we do that we tie the awareness together with the treatment stuff like that I think Had a lot of impact and judging from the Saudis you'd speak to and the media attention it got and the attention from the king Tells you that we're on to something there. Can you say a little more about gender? I think that there's sort of a presumption that farm policy is is a man's game But I know from from what I know of your programming that that like with Susan B. Coman I mean you were you were reaching out to all kinds of audiences as the United States thinks about Engaging broadly and We know that women play roles in families determining who participates in boycotts and those sorts of things how should we think about Engaging women as distinct complimentary to male audiences and To what extent should we just say we're gonna talk about foreign policy and whoever's interested will come. Yeah. Yeah Well, I think the thing is you have to Engage women on both levels as Professionals as foreign policy is they they fit those opinion leader positions because why there might be fewer of them There are women out there in all these societies who have an impact To watch Lebanese TV is to see all those Announcers and reporters who are women and realize that NBC is broadcast quite broadly in the Middle East And that they are certainly you're gonna engage them because so many of the presenters are so attractive Whatever it takes You know, the fact is that they are presenting news in points of view and there you want to work with with them on on those Very serious hardcore political issues, but I think then in looking at how you engage a larger Grouping you have to find what's important to them and make sure the things we're talking about are important to them so for example, if you Sit there talking about glass ceilings and corporations or something and things like that. That's important for a very small group It's important, but it's not a broad broad based effort I think what you have to do is look at something that perhaps does have a larger impact on women And that can be education. It could be gender-based violence It can be all these other things that really hit a broader society and maybe share some of her ideas and really share It's not about lecturing or doing anything like that You have to show what we do and see where they can borrow something that might fit with their society You can't impose this on them And they will work in there at their own speed and at their own time to do it But probably exposing them to some of our better practices can't hurt You've also got to explain the things we do that aren't so right and one of the things you get is Especially they might look at certain aspects of our society Some of our TV shows show quite a lot of licentiousness in America And you have to put those in context with what they are One, they are television shows and not reality And you have to deal frankly with these issues because I found that sometimes these make the greater barriers to understanding the United States Than anything else is they see that portrait of America whether it's accurate or not or generally It's not accurate and say I don't like that and you say well There's more to America than what you see on those shows reality TV isn't reality Jerry Springer presents a view of America And they certainly watch it and love it But I also like to think that Oprah I think is the most popular show out there And probably put some more positive image out but also speaking about real women's issues to a broader audience So you've got to make sure they see maybe a little bit more open a little less Jerry Springer Hi, I'm Steven Canada retired from the US Council for International Business, and I'm looking at this paragraph called the private sector And you say a free conversation with private sector executives might be an inexpensive alternative So if I'm the head of the IBM office in Mumbai And my job is to make IBM global a seamless operation What can I do? What should I do? Do I want to get engaged with this and it's sort of like walking on eggshells? So to what extent can US global companies? play a positive role without Cracking the eggshells Sure. Well, it's interesting because we do work with those if you take something like Microsoft They have every interest in intellectual property rights is that we do and they go are very vocal about it They have they bring people together. They send them off Including on training programs in the United States. So they do a lot of things like that So a lot of companies that are augmenting what we do or complimenting what we do for their own reasons But they happen to Hit a lot of our ideas one thing I was mentioning though about that what I thought was so interesting I really saw this in Pakistan we put out with AID a contract to do to add agencies and There was I was part of the committee to choose one and I found that and I'd been in advertising so I could I could read through some of the mumbo jumbo they put there and What was interesting is when you have an ad agency talk about what works you're not just getting the guy thinking about your one thing There's some guy with 20 25 years experience selling products there and has a good sense how this stuff works So one thing that came through in a lot of these contracts for example was it don't use SMS that's spam And at the time in Washington we got use SMS. So who you gonna believe you know kind of thing Well, I think these ad agencies were really trying to move product and all that have a good sense of what the tools are What can work and what can't I? I think we can also learn from some of the failures I mentioned a McDonald's campaign in here that was covered at the New York Times about how they thought they were doing one thing But social media backfired on them and it came it turned out to be something very different I think we can learn from what these companies do But my final conclusion and it's funny because when I go back to India I have a guy right now hooking up a session with an ad agency I say I want them to tell me for an hour bunch of us go over there What would be surprised to know about how you? Communicate in India. I think there's a lot of experience that we can tap into there We tend not to be so good marrying with the private sector on that, but they've got a lot of experience and can tell us an awful lot We have time for one more question right there, sir Thank you very much Richard Lee Smith from the British Embassy I just I feel I need to ask a question just to show that we are here and we are listening I Wanted to ask about the balance between effort from Washington and effort in country Obviously, you're blessed here with a huge number of foreign journalists To what extent can can you use them to influence the message that you receiving in country and And what what sort of have been the best experiences you've heard of that of that happening What's that last part then what you're sort of good examples of engagement of the forum media here to to influence okay, we regularly engage the foreign journalists that are there and We do it one with especially with the Americans out of courtesy because they are fellow Americans who we were there to help out but also one thing that's very interesting is how what they write can boomerang right back into the society and The fact is say when I was in Pakistan anything that appeared in the Washington Post the New York Times New Wall Street Journal was covered and entered into the debate there So we found them very valuable to public diplomacy simply to make sure they have our perspective and what's going on We also know that they engage with an awful lot of people in whatever host country you're in and so Just by the questions they ask you learn a lot about a country When we have chats with them The one of the difficult things though is there they have difficult to getting access to a lot of these places Some countries let them in some don't some throw them out some have minders So it's not something you can't use them everywhere all the time that way or they're just not around The usually you always will have a wire reporter or something like that. He's often a local But to get a New York Times or Washington Post guy in there is something different in Pakistan We're very spoiled because almost every major media organization had a had a representative there In India I can say although it's outside the scope of this report New Delhi is a huge hub for international journalists and and every major medium is there So wherever we are we like them we use them We think it's important to communicate to them if they ask us questions But they also are not our target, you know, who they're not the guys we're out there to reach It's sort of what we do in addition to reaching out to whatever that the host country is And I think that's always something to be aware of for us a real success is when we see a story that appears say in in the In the Middle East press or in Al Jazeera something we've worked with them on much more than if something would appear on BBC And once again, I also get back to that vernacular trust and all that that certain Organizations will will burrow deeper and have a broader audience than others So we want to be sure we're clear who we're really trying to you know work with the most here Walter, I want to thank you for presenting not only a fascinating report, but also a really Broad-ranging discussion that demonstrates just how rich a field public diplomacy is I want to thank you all for coming We look forward to seeing you again soon. Thank you. Thank you. Thank John. Yeah