 Okay, I remember exactly when Art Risen, like when that light bulb went off and I saw it in Dave's eyes. I think it was like right here, big double cage. Oh, yeah. Dave always does like a goal list for the year. And every year his goal list said, is Art Risen possible? Yes or no? Like it's a goal if it's actually doable, but if it's not actually doable then like it can't be a goal, right? In those early days, Dave had a lot of persistence and he was, he had a lot of resilience too because you know, basically we were finding dead ends all over the place and there was like a thousand false stars. I couldn't find an epoxy resin that didn't yellow. And we couldn't find an epoxy resin that wasn't going to kill us. Yeah. Like that wasn't toxic. And I really didn't know if we would ever find this product that we were after and when everybody tells you no, it's, and you're not a chemist, you kind of go, okay, well maybe the answer is no. And you did not give up. You did not give up. And thank God he did because you know, it really led somewhere.