 Welcome to Healthy Planet, the show for people who care about the health and the health of our planet on Think Tech, Hawaii. I'm your host, Dr. Grace O'Neill. Joining me today is Dr. Ruby Lathan, thyroid cancer survivor and advocate for plant-based nutrition. Welcome, Dr. Ruby. Thank you. I'm happy to be here. Thank you for being here. I was wondering if you can tell us about how long ago you were diagnosed with thyroid cancer. That was 2007, so it's been a while. It's been over 15 years now. So what happened at that point? Did you right away decide that you were going to change some things or did you, like, what happened? Yeah. So, you know, when I was diagnosed, you know, I was really surprised and I did start looking at natural treatment right away. It was my first thought just because I feel I just familiar with the idea of natural treatment and had always been in that, leaning in that direction. I wasn't someone who, like, should aspirin for headaches or something. It's like, I'm just going to drink water or find a natural solution or take a nap. I just didn't do medication. So with thyroid cancer, the usual solution is to remove the thyroid or irradiate it. So you have to be on medication forever. And so that's really what led me to look at natural methods. Now, did you have any symptoms before you were diagnosed? Not really that I felt. I think the main symptom that really wasn't necessarily related to the cancer was like an enlarged thyroid. So that's like two different issues, right? So the enlarged thyroid caused us to look further at the thyroid and kind of do some comparison from the last time I had a scan that the doctor felt was we should take a look. And then so because of that, we did another ultrasound and then notice new nodules. So that's really how it was found. Actually just a really good doctor was paying attention. Yeah. Yeah. That's helpful. So tell me when you started trying to do looking at natural therapies, you must have been kind of scared because I don't know if a lot of people, you knew a lot of people with thyroid cancer or you'd known somebody who tried natural therapy before, were you kind of scared or did the doctor make you scared that you wouldn't get better with a natural therapy? Yeah. The doctor definitely tried to make me scared. I mean, not initially, initially he said, yeah, do what you like, he'd come back in three months and we'll do the surgery. So he was very dismissive about it. So he wasn't, you know, he didn't instill any fear, he was like, we'll just schedule it for three months out, which basically says it's not going to work. So, and I wasn't initially, I don't, I wasn't really scared and at first I was like, let's figure it out, let's figure it out. And I think part of the lack of fear was, you know, based on my research, it was like, well, thyroid cancer is kind of the best cancer to have because it does not metastasize quickly in most cases, especially if it's not on your lymph nodes. So you have a little time. So and since he felt like three months was not a big deal, then I felt, okay, so at least I have some time to figure it out. So initially I was like, you know, he even says three months is not a big deal. So I'm going to take at least three months and try to see what happens. Before when you had the, you know, before you had a thyroid cancer, what was your lifestyle like and what kind of changes did you make afterward after your research? Um, so at the time I was busy all the time, overly busy, you know, just entrepreneur, so I'm still an entrepreneur, but I had worked for the national labs and I had left to do an entrepreneurship in engineering with some partners. So as an entrepreneur, you tend to overwork. It's just kind of like the nature of entrepreneurship, especially in the early stages. And so I was just traveling a lot, gone a lot, a lot of processed food. Um, you know, cause I wasn't really paying that much attention to things. So, so kind of a busy go, go, go, and a lifestyle. Yeah. And then afterward, what kind of changes did you make? Well, I quit. That was what I was like, I need a break. I didn't break from the work. I need a break because it wasn't happy doing it anymore. Um, and I, I slowed everything down. You know, I really didn't. I was like, um, and I was, you know, uh, I volunteered a lot with multiple organizations and some of them I really liked, but some I was just doing cause I was asked and I really didn't want to do it, but I hadn't developed the skill and the art of saying no. So I just did, but I was asked, but like, I should, you know, I have the time, you know, and you feel guilty. You're like, Oh, you're single or you're, you don't have any children. You shouldn't donate all your time. Nothing else, you know? So yeah, I was, so I, I stopped all of that. I was like, I'm not doing anything. I don't want to do any more. Just, just no, I'm just, I learned to say no, no, and no again. That was my new favorite word. Like I'm just going to figure out what I actually want to do and start doing that and not doing what I feel like I should do. Um, and you know, it gave me a chance to pause with the job and reevaluate what I really wanted to do. Um, you know, I liked engineering and school. I liked the work. I like studying. I liked all of that, but I didn't like the job. You know, I was like, I didn't like defense. I didn't like, you know, optimizing weapon systems. I didn't like being in an office all day. I didn't like it. I was, I was before the diagnosis, before I had even left the job. I would be thinking like, how can I get out of this? I feel stuck. I have a degree. I have three degrees in this field. I feel like I have to keep going to pay for that. Well, you know, um, but I didn't want to. It's like, I just gotta figure out how to get out of it now. Um, and so, and then I was also with the job. I was also trying to figure out how to get out of it with the, even in the entrepreneurship with the partnership that I had, I was trying to figure out how do I exit this. So the cancer diet said, here's your opportunity to get out of everything. So, so that's that it gave me a chance to pause and recraft my life. Yeah. I know that sounds awesome. And how did you come upon the plant-based diet? Were you always plant-based or did you? Um, so I grew up primarily vegetarian. We became vegetarians when I was very young, like eight or nine years old. Um, and then in college, you know, I experimented with meat, other people experiment with drugs. I experimented with chicken, you know, so, and I didn't, I didn't like it. I just liked the crunchy part of it. So I gave that up. Um, and then I was predominantly vegetarian, maybe a little fish here and there. Um, but I ate a lot of dairy though. It was like a lot, a lot of dairy, a lot of whey protein, just dairy products in general. You know, all the, the kind of cheese, this cheese, things that we think are healthy. And unhealthy is just like, you know, cheese is usually when you're vegetarian back then in the early 2000s, um, they should replace everything with cheese. It's like, oh, you don't eat meat. Here's cheese ravioli, here's cheese lasagna, here's cheese, cheese, cheese. So that, so it was kind of an overdose of that. And so when I was diagnosed, that's when I started researching and, um, the plant-based diets was like a primary, uh, dietary process that helps reverse cancer, helps reverse all the, the other stuff, like all the chronic diseases that most people deal with in America and abroad. Um, and so I was like, well, this makes sense and I'm already halfway there. So I'm just going to go ahead and switch to fully plant-based. Did you do fully raw for a while? Were you juicing or was there anything in particular that you really thought helped you the most? Yeah. So I did several iterations of the plan. So initially I was doing more of a high raw diet. I don't think I ever went fully raw because I was always doing some like brown rice and maybe like Ezekiel bread, um, that kind of thing. So it was never fully raw, but it was high raw, um, lots of cheese. I think what, you know, helped, I mean, I was doing so many things. I knew that I would not be able to pinpoint what did it. So because I was doing everything all at once. So I was like, I could do this like a science experiment, but I don't think I have the time to say, let's do three months of this. Three months of this, I really did think about it, but I was like, no, let's just throw everything at it and get rid of it. So, um, so yeah, I think with the juicing, I did wheat grass every day because I still have the, um, the gumption or the band with the juice hounds of vegetables every day. It's a lot. Not especially yet a bite all that. And then it's just like, it's, for me, it was too much. I was like, so, um, and I had wheat grass. I had gone to this facility, the lifestyle treatment center that, that showed you kind of how to use food as medicine. And I was researching the whole time. I mean, for the first six months, I was researching every day. So I was like, I had a job. The job was just sitting at the computer researching, getting second opinions, seeing other doctors talking to people. So the wheat grass made sense because it's like juicing three to five pounds of green veggies a day. Plus it really helps breaking down cancer cells. So I did two ounces of wheat grass every day with ginger and some carrot juice after just a little bit of carrot juice, just to taste it and, and to chase it. And that was very doable because it's easy cleanup. You get a pallet of wheat grass that's going to last you seven to ten days, we're doing as in, or yourself. I didn't grow it myself. There was a, um, there was a health food store that had pallets you could buy, you know, wrong bullets. So I just bought one every ten days. How it sounds like, you know, this worked smarter, not harder. So, so yeah, I tried regrowing it, but sometimes it's mold. So I was like, I'm just going to buy the new pallet. It's not that bad. Um, and I just kept it in the fridge and you cut off what you need and juice it and keep it moving. So I was eating lots of garlic every day, like eight cloves of garlic. So I would say the most consistent thing was the garlic, um, the wheatgrass, uh, SCAC tea was one that's like common tea. People used to fight cancer. Um, that was every day and some other teas, pretty arco tea was another one. So those two teas, those were consistent throughout the entire time. It was like garlic, wheatgrass, tea. Um, and then everything else just kind of built on that. There were a lot of supplements, IP six, algae, water, um, mushroom extract. You know, I did some cleanses, bentonite claying cleanses, you know, getting in baths with that. When I was at the center, I did like the hyperbaric chamber, hydrotherapy, getting in very hot water to raise the temperature. So your T cells are activated. So there was tons. And then I think the pivotal moment was, um, when I started meditating and visualized. So that came about halfway through, um, because the first half, you know, I was really trying to figure out why I got it in the first place. So I was in research. Well, how did I get this so that I can figure out how to get rid of it? Like, what do I need to actually change? How did I get here? So I can, so I can reverse it. That was my focus. Like, um, so I, that, and then when I feel like I got the answer to that, then I focused on fully just, okay, now what's healing. So what I, what gave me both the answer was when I went to a facility that measures for radiation, because the thyroid is very sensitive to radiation exposure from like excess dental x-rays or upper body x-rays and all that. And so that's one, um, and then just radiation exposure. So it showed that I did have a high level of like California, which is not usual. So I was like, well, that's probably it. And I had worked at the national lab and I was like putting two in together pretty sure this is where I got this. Um, and then I had to decide, well, are you going to sue? Cause we're pretty sure this is where you got it. And then I was like, I met with a lawyer and I was like, you know what? I can't fight and heal at the same time. So I'm just going to let that go. And I'm just going to, cause that's about evidence improving. And I was like, I just don't want to be in that space. Um, so I let it go and I decided to focus on the healing and just focus on, and that's when I took a vacation finally and sat on the beach and then got like insight on what to do and took it from there. So tell us about this lifestyle center you're talking about. Where is that? And how did you find that? Yeah, that's in Alabama. Um, Uche pine. So it's a lifestyle center that uses all natural methods to help people deal from a variety of things, including cancer. There are many around the country that are similar, you know, like Eden Valley, Hippocrates, I think like in Florida. Um, this one I knew about because of the church I was, I went to at the time, um, that I had known people that would go there for other just things illnesses. So I looked that up and saw, you know, that they do treat people with cancer and that's, that's why I went there like very quickly after on stage for like three weeks. So it was like the jumpstart for the whole natural healing. So I learned so much in three weeks that it was like, wow. Okay. And I felt like, um, I had a good handle on it. And then, um, I had a friend who was studying Ayurvedic medicine to become a naturopath. And so she guided me through the process too. So really it was not by myself. I was like, first I just got like a crash course and natural remedies at the center. And then I was researching every day. And then I had her to run everything by and help put together a plan. And then I was seeing other people, like some chiropractors to other naturopath people who do blood and look at your blood and see what's going on with that. I, I did a deep dives. And then after, uh, afterward, how did you know that you got better? Did you feel better? Or did you go to the doctor again to get checked? Yeah. So I went back after the three months, right? Cause I thought, oh, I've done so much. I changed the diet. I've been taking all these supplements. I've done cleanses and it was still there. So it was an ultrasound. And then I told the diet. I wanted to keep, I wasn't ready to do any surgery. I was going to keep going. And that's when the fear tactics started. That's when you're being irresponsible. You need to do this. And he wrote a letter to my primary physician saying, I'm not following the suggestion and advice. And all I was like, are you telling on me? It's my doctor. So I was like, yeah. So that's when the scare tactics got pulled out. And then I decided to find another doctor because I felt like I shouldn't be feeling this pressured to do something I don't want to do. I just want you to monitor. So I basically interviewed about two doctors. So explained what I wanted to do. I would not do it. The other one agreed to just do the monitoring and tell me what's, what's going on. And so even that was still some pressure. But because I went in saying, this is what I'm going to do. And I need to assign something to say you're off the hook for not giving me the treatment. I would do that. I just want you to monitor. So, so that's how we were doing it every couple of months. And I did feel healed. I felt better when I started. So after like, it was like before the vacation and after before the vacation, I was very stressed and pensive and anxious about the tests and everything after when I was like, okay, you don't have to do everything. You don't have to take everything. You know, I'm sitting on the beach and I feel like I just got like a download of what I should do and what I could let go. Then I felt like, okay, now it's my plan. I'm in charge. I'm going to tell the doctor when I'm going back, not on a schedule, I'm in charge of this. I started meditating and I used this thing called a chi machine where it rocks your feet side to side to get oxygen in your blood. So I would do that every day and meditate and then visualize cancer leaving my body. So that daily practice is what made me feel like, oh, I'm good. I'm healed and stop saying I had cancer. So I said I would go back for a scan when I felt ready, not in three months or four months, just when I felt healed. So I did, you know, and then I'd gone for a scan and I noticed the thyroid had shrunk because it was enlarged. So that gave me like, oh, now we're getting somewhere. Obviously things are working. Um, and then, uh, when I went back the last time, I was like, it was still there. Um, but I was like, there's no way I still have. I was like, I've eaten the cleanest I've ever eaten in life. I'm the most relaxed I've ever been. I'm only doing what I want to do. I, there's no way it's still there. So I, and I thought I'm seeing it leave my body every day. So I said, let's do another biopsy because I feel like maybe it's just changed. And that's how he found out that it was gone. I'm doing another biopsy. That was probably like, that was a year, that was a year from the, the time that was the initial diagnosis, a little over a year actually, actually it was like 14 months. So, um, because, uh, like that December, I was like, there's no way it's still there. I'm just going to, I'm going to go a little bit longer. And then I was like, let me do, let's do another biopsy at this point. So, so I had to direct all of that because he wasn't saying, let's do that. And he was like, you know, it's still there. Let's do the surgery. I was like, no, let's, let's do a scan because there's no way I'm taking it out without knowing a hundred percent. There's still cancer there. And you don't have a thyroid. No, I mean, it's not a reversible process. You're just all really, let's take it out. Like it's working perfectly. All the new numbers are perfect. All my thyroid and hormone levels were in line. And I felt healthy. I was at my perfect weight. It was just like, there's no way I'm not healthy. So, so that's why I am. Yeah. So let's, let's do it. Do another biopsy. And there was no cancer found anywhere. So. Wonderful. It's such an inspiring story. I'm wondering, I know that I was checking out your website and I know that you're helping other people now. Are you helping other people with thyroid cancer mainly or just all kinds of cancers? All kinds of cancer, all kinds of cancer. I, I help people with cancer, with diabetes, with heart disease, kidney failure, anything, just overall health. Because when you heal one part of the body, you tend to heal it all together. So, you know, and you can, I'm definitely target things to help the healing process. But, you know, it's all part of the immune system working to get things back in balance. And part of what I focus on as a holistic nutritionist is it's not just the food, it's not just the supplements. Because I did the food and supplements on the first half, but I was anxious, scared, you know, like it has to work. I feel like I started seeing results after I relaxed and started getting into the mental space. And so it's like, you have to do all of it, not pieces of it. You need to, you can't just do mental and you're drinking coax every day. It's like, let's work together, but you can't be eating the best food possible and like going to bed scared every night, you know? It's because you're making more acid in your body and things. So we look at everything, we look at relationships, we look at sleeping patterns, water intake, everything, mold in your house, body products, you know, everything. Because, you know, a lot of times we're spraying toxic air fresheners in our house every day. So it is a full lifestyle approach. Yeah. And I'm wondering, I also saw that you have a show, The Veggie Chest. Can you tell us about that? Yeah. So I started that way back when I was first coaching people and giving them like recipes. And some of them are so new, you know, the vegan lifestyle is so new. It sounded so foreign. I was like, how about I just make the video so it doesn't seem like it's such a, like a big leap because there's a big difference in getting a recipe and seeing a video. It's like, okay, I see the video. I can actually try that. So it is clean, plant-based eating made simple, but very good. And so I feel like I have an easiest way of cooking that is accessible. It's really about the seasonings and what healthy seasonings you can use. So make the food taste good, cook without all the oil and all the stuff and the processed things. So, yeah, so it's the motto is it's easy and delicious because it's got to be both to make it stick. Yeah. So is any salt or sugar or anything like that? And I know you said no oil, but how about salt? Yeah, you see salt because salt is OK in its right form. So Celtic salt or sea salt we use. And probably my earlier videos, I did use oil, but, you know, you learn more as you go along and I don't use it to cook with anymore. I just use like water or brunt. I wouldn't say I'm like 100 percent oil free because I might do a salad dressing that has like olive oil or something like that or avocado. But generally, I'm not cooking with oil like in the pan. It's just not a necessary thing. Yeah, so, so, yeah. So no processed sugar. Usually if we're doing sweets, we're doing like raw, like a lot of raw desserts because I like to use dates, maple syrup. I do some baked goods and usually that's either like date sugar or coconut sugar. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a lot of people, they don't know how to cook without it, but it's actually quite easy to cook with that oil. It really is. Yeah, you really don't. You can use dates for a lot of things. Dates work quite well. Yeah. And then there's, you know, the monk fruit that's really not sugar at all or stevia that can be used. How about maple syrup? Do you ever use that? I do. Yeah. And a lot of the raw dishes, I use maple syrup for a combination of maple syrup or something. Occasionally raw agave as well. Do you develop the recipes yourself or do you work with someone to develop them? No, I do them myself. So usually it started with what do I like to eat but needs to be vegan. That's how I just started. It's like, you know, like I really like grilled cheese before I was vegan. I was like, let's figure out how to make the grilled cheese. So I found that, you know, cashew recipe. I'll see. I'll do takes on other things that I've had. So I'll go to a restaurant that's got vegan food and then I'll go and replicate it at home or something like that. Or just I like the idea of it. So so I do get a lot of inspiration from just regular, you know, meat based dishes to make it just to veganize it. No, this is it's wonderful. I'm going to check out some of your recipes. I'm actually really excited I'm also looking for good recipes for myself as well. So I'm wondering if you could just say, like, how if people want to contact you, what's the best way to contact you? And then I saw you had a podcast, too. Yeah. So we have we did our like weekly wellness podcast like for years. So we're on pause now, but we have like five years of that you can go back and listen to on like every topic that we've pretty much covered topics available. So it is there that you can click that link to the wellness call or podcast and see, you know, hear those hear those shows. And people can go to my website, which is my name, RubyLathan.com to to listen to that, to watch the videos, to get recipes. And then if you're in the DC, Washington, DC, Maryland, Virginia area, there's a food service, Ruby Reds Vegan, that you can do some that uses a lot of the recipes that I demonstrate that are actually in part of our menu. So yeah, it's a full circle because people wanted the videos that are like, well, can you just make the food? I don't get it. So now, you know, we have a full company chef, everything, and we deliver everything. That's wonderful. So you get it for like, you have to get it for a week or can it just be a few. Yeah, you can get a sampler, like four meals or you can get it for the week. But yeah, we deliver every Sunday. Oh, my gosh, that's wonderful. If I'm ever in DC, I'm going to hit that. I know. Absolutely. That's what I'm taking. Yeah, for sure. Well, that's wonderful. Do you have any takeaways for our viewers? Um, yeah, I would say, you know, if you're if you're dealing with cancer, know that it can you can heal, get support, get help, you know, and if your desire is to do it naturally, go for it. You listen to your gut. That's what I did. It was like, I'm going to go with my gut and know that it's you can reverse pretty much everything if you know what to do and have the support to do that. So I would I would say, do that. Work with someone like me or someone else who follows a plant based plant centered lifestyle. You know, I work with people remotely from all over the world. And then I have an online course cancer course that you can take if you know you can't work with me. So I'm saying there's always hope at any stage. You just have to make the decision. Go for it. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much. We have to wrap it up now. I'm Dr. Grace O'Neill. This is Healthy Planet on Think Tech Hawaii. We've been talking about Luthe, Leithan, recovering from thyroid cancer. Thank you for being here. And if you enjoyed the conversation, please hit the like button and subscribe to our channel. And we'll be back in two weeks. So please tune in until your friends to tune in then. Check out my website at graceandhawaii.com or Instagram at gracefulliving365 for more information on my show guests. Thanks so much for watching. I'm Dr. Grace O'Neill. Aloha everyone.