 Hello viewers, and thanks for tuning in. This is Higher Education Matters. I'm Jeb Spaulding, the Chancellor of the Vermont State Colleges System, and in this program we explore issues that are current in higher education. We have interest in guests. We try to really inform people about opportunities and challenges in the higher education realm, not just for the Vermont State Colleges, but in higher education in general. I do want to let people know, in the Vermont State Colleges System, we have a variety of institutions. We have Community College of Vermont, which has 12 locations around the state, a variety of courses and associate's degree programs. A third of the courses delivered by Community College of Vermont are online, so we have flexible delivery systems to make it more convenient for people to take advantage of Community College of Vermont. We have a Castleton University in Rutland County, which is a wonderful liberal arts education with a bent on the professions and really robust experiential education, 25 NCAA sports, if not more. If you haven't been to Castleton for a while, you ought to check it out. We are very proud of Northern Vermont University, which has been the first class entering as a unification of Johnson State College and Lyndon State College into a university that can offer more as a combined institution than alone, whether you want to do foreign exchange programs or really strong professional programs or liberal arts, they've got it all there. And of course, Vermont Technical College with a campus in Williston, campus in Randolph Center, and also delivered around the state. I can't think of too many higher education opportunities or possibilities more valuable than Vermont Technical College, where in a two-year degree program, the job placement rate is near 100%. And of course, they have bachelor's degrees and a master's degree in computer science as well. So that's a bit about the Vermont State College's system, but that's not really what we're here to talk about today. We're here to talk about a new benefit that's being offered to National Guard members in Vermont. And our guest is Colonel Gregory Knight. Greg, thanks very much for coming on. You know, it's people I think want to know a little bit about you. While I was amazed reading your resume, how many metals you've acquired? So you've been in a variety of things in your life, but you've been active, you've been in the air guard, the Army Guard, served in Iraq. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Well, first, thank you for the invitation, Chancellor. I appreciate the opportunity to be here. It's been a great career for me, I think, the military and the Vermont Guard in particular is an organization of opportunity. By taking advantage of that, I've had a very diverse experience. As you noted, the air guard, I was enlisted for 13 years and then completed my education through Vermont State Colleges, went to CCV first, then went to Johnson, now Northern Vermont University, Johnson. Achieved my commission, and then the rest has been history. I went full-time guard in 2000 on the Army side and just pursued opportunity since then, it's been great. Well, we really do want to let people know about this exciting new program, which is brand new starting in January, I believe. And this is meant to actually help people that are already in the guard, but also encourage other people to join the guard. And we'll talk about that in a minute. But I'm just interested for modders that might not be familiar with the kinds of things they will do when they're in the guard, air or Army. What are the kind of learning experiences somebody might have when they join? And why would this be helpful for their career? Well, a lot of folks don't understand first the mission of the guard. We have a dual status mission, a dual role. First is to serve our state. We work for the governor, we work for the legislature in times of civil emergency. So we maintain our readiness there. We have response forces ready to go. And then if in time of national emergency or operational need by the Department of Defense, then we would be activated. But within the guard itself, we have, even for a small state, we have so many different and varied specialties, whether on the enlisted side or on the officer side. First, I would tell you we have a new cyber team. And specialties change all the time. But you become generically what's a signal specialist. But actually you're working, could be a land manager. It could be software, could be network defense. All the way through diesel mechanics. If you want to be infantry, you can be infantry. On the air guard side, they have structural mechanics. Avionics technicians, fuel specialists, armament specialists. There's just a vast diversity of things for folks to do. And I would tell you that that is still a part-time job. And you can do things on the outside. You can pursue your career. So there's some for monitors that will do it full-time, active. And then some time that are part-time and reserve as well. Correct. So what happened in my case is, as an example, I did 11 years of law enforcement in Vermont. And I maintained my status as a traditional guard soldier. Or airman, depending on if I transitioned at some point in the middle. But during that time, as noted, I got my degree. While I enjoyed law enforcement, I really enjoyed being in the military. And as a part-time soldier, that kind of gave me a little bit of what I wanted. But I really enjoyed and had a great deal of passion for the organization. So the opportunity came and I was competitive enough to be selected, so I'm very fortunate. So I'm just curious, could you have progressed to the stage you're at, at Colonel, without having a four-year degree? No. No, absolutely not. Because these days there seems to be some kind of devaluation going on of the value of a bachelor's or a four-year degree. Right, I think... People often don't realize that, you know, if they don't want to limit their potential, they might think about that a little bit. Yes. So I would say for us, our force is actually quite educated. I think from years past, there was this stigma that went with military service. So hey, listen, you don't have anything else to do. You just join the military. I would say that's the smartest thing I could have possibly done. Because it led, again, to so many opportunities, including my education. And I've seen that across our force and the wider force. I know a lot of people that are military, different branches of service. But on the officer side, at least in the guard currently, if you have 90 college credits, you can attend officer candidate school and obtain a commission. Now you can remain a lieutenant, second lieutenant and first lieutenant for up to seven years. But if you don't have a four-year degree, you're not gonna make captain and you'll be separated from the service. But that also feeds in. You get that four-year degree, but now you use your benefits, your federal tuition assistance, your Montgomery GI Bill or your Post-9-Lib and GI Bill, but you can apply different educational benefits to get to an advanced degree. Yeah, that's great. And I think an important message there is, I mean, most people probably think of, hey, going to college, you graduate from high school, you go full-time and get your degree if you stick with it. But there are all kinds of different paths to get to that degree and you're a good example of that. You could start a community college, you could go part-time, people have lives that they have to lead and still can pursue that post-secondary education. Well, so let's get right down to it. There is a new program that was advocated for by General Cray and was supported strongly by Governor Scott and it took a little while, but something passed the legislature this year that people might be interested in. Tell us what that is, Colonel. It's the Vermont National Regard Tuition Benefit Program. Which is what? It's a program where guard members, air and army, will have their tuition paid for by the guard in exchange for a service obligation. That's the foundational element of this. That's awesome. We were the last state in the Northeast, so all in New England and New York and New Jersey, to have this and for years, that's put us at a market disadvantage. Yeah, one of the things that really sold me on this, just thinking about it, in addition to the fact that the Vermont State Colleges are all designated military friendly and whether it's veterans are active, what have you, we are anxious to serve. Our mission is the same. Our mission is for the benefit of Vermont and we see this program as part of that role that we have. But when I heard that Vermonters could conceivably go to Massachusetts as an example and serve in the Massachusetts Guard and get free tuition, I mean, obviously that really would put our Vermont Guard at a disadvantage. And I'll tell you, Chancellor, it has. And we've had, I can tell you just off the top of my head, I know of 24 soldiers just on the Army side who left Vermont via interstate transfer because in the Guard doesn't mean you're locked into a state, career's changed, family's changed. So you can do interstate transfer to another Guard state. We lost in less than three years 24 qualified soldiers who said specifically I'm leaving the Vermont Guard to go to New Hampshire, to Massachusetts, to New York, to another state for educational benefits. I'm going to school. How do I counter that? That's just good business sense. I mean, it was to such a point where our former recruiting commander had his daughter go, it was her selection, but she went to New Hampshire and joined the Air Guard in New Hampshire because they had this tuition benefit. So the problem for us in the Guard, to be a traditional Guard soldier as an organization, it takes us two years to make a qualified soldier based on their training seat availability and all that. So they're part-time. So they may go to their basic training in the summer and they're advanced training the next summer. And then in two years I have a qualified soldier. They go to another state, they get a qualified soldier immediately and I'm starting over. So it's a really nasty cycle for us. So that's why we hope that this program will come in. So you go to school every year of college, you'll have a two-year service obligation. Important to understand is concurrent, right? It's not you go to four years of college and then you'll also have eight years. You're in and serving as a part-time soldier or airman while you go to school. So if somebody is new coming into the Guard and wants to take advantage of this, do they have to serve two years first and then get- No, the requirement is you complete basic training. Yeah, okay, that's great. And so have you had any early indications of whether there's a lot of interest out there in this program? There's a lot of discussion. I think we had, for the first time in a long time, we actually had somebody walk into the recruiting offices to say, hey, I'm interested, tell me about the program. When does it start, Colonel? So there's a, based on the budget cycle right now, we're setting the old program, the old educational assistance program, and it should be fully funded this coming fall. And we're working with VSAC to get through the mechanics of actually implementation of the program. Okay, so it's not until next September that people could start to take advantage of the new benefit, which was free to listen. Correct, fully funded, correct. We were limited on budget with how many students we could accept this for this fall. Well, I'm glad to know that, because somehow I thought that it was starting in January. But, I just wanted to make sure I'm clear on this. Yeah, the fall, again, we're sunsetting the old one, and I'm not clear on all the budget cycle stuff, but it's, we had a limited number based on the budget allocation for that period, and then the spring of next year will be fully funded. How does this new program differ from, you know, the current program or the one that's being phased out? So, the old program was not an entitlement. While we could provide some benefit from year to year, it was unpredictable, because you're tied to a budget. Some year as a student, you may get a $4,000 award, the next year you get 7,000. What that means for us as a recruiting tool or as a retention tool to keep soldiers in the guard, I don't have a guarantee. I can't tell you it's entitlement. Look if the money is there, I'll give it to you. But that makes it tough, that's a tough sell. And that's what the vast difference is now it's entitlement. In exchange for your entitlement, we were going to get a service obligation. So the guard has run its own educational programs, right? You can get an associate's degree through the guard itself. Am I right about that? You can, on the air guard side, there's a community college at the Air Force. Okay. Yes. We have a number of airmen that have done that. Right. And that's a nice pathway to get started as well. But do you think this new program will have an effect on the air guard community college program? Yeah, I'm not sure. I'll tell you a chance. I think it's a matter of personal preference for the student. Right. And again, based on their work schedule, their family life, what can they do? That's why distributed learning is probably, especially as an adult educated. I mean, that's important is to have that ability. So I don't think it's a matter of taking business away. I think it's a matter of what curriculum that student is looking for and what best fits them. Yeah. But the other thing I would tell you, and I took advantage of this, is the crosswalk of military experience into college. So I was able to, I don't remember the exact number, but probably, I don't know, 30 to 35 credits based on my military experience. Because there are institutions, including our own, and we can do that via our educational services officer. They'll translate your military training into college credit, at least it takes care of a number of your electives. Yes. And we do the same thing through community college of Vermont, the assessment of prior learning. And I know community college of Vermont enjoys working with the Air Guard program. Speaking of personal preferences, while I like to brag about the Vermont State College's system, and you're a great illustration of the kind of student that we take in and are very proud of, and yes, we really offer a lot, as I already mentioned, from community college of Vermont, right through Castleton Northern Vermont University to Vermont Technical College. One thing that's important to note about this program, which might even be an advantage over some of the other states, for people that might be interested in taking advantage of the new free tuition benefit is, it's not just at the Vermont State College's system. That is correct. It's at any public or independent college. So, just to name some, I mean, if you were interested in Norwich or Champlain, you could do that as well, which is pretty exciting. So, and what happens with that is, the way the program breaks down is if you're in the guard, Air Army, your tuition is paid at UVM at the in-state rate for UVM at the Northern Vermont University rate for state college system, CCV has their rate, and then the private institutions that you're referring to are paid at the Northern Vermont University rate. So, you are correct. That is something that our sister states don't have. They rely heavily on their state college system. This coming back to student or Airmen and soldier preference is huge for us. Yeah, you know, as a matter of self-interest, I would have preferred to do it like the other doing the states, but really if it's all about the students and about the guard, then I think this makes a whole lot of sense and we're happy to support that. Do the independents have to opt in or in other words, they have to take students at the UVM tuition rate, right? At the Northern Vermont University. At the Northern Vermont University. Have we had any indication whether they will do that? I would defer to General Cray on that question. I'm not sure. I can't imagine they won't. But as far, I mean, I'm certain that they're gonna accept the student. And there may be some give and take, but whatever the negotiations between the student and the college, that's up to them. I'm quite sure I'm right about this, is that it's not like the benefit would only be the Northern Vermont University tuition rate and then the student would have to make up the difference if they were to go to a St. Mike's, let's say, that St. Mike's to participate says we're gonna participate in this program and we're gonna take them and accept them at the Northern Vermont University tuition rate. Yeah, that discussion, I would again, I'll defer to General Cray, but I think that's probably more between the student and the school. And I know Norwich is probably engaging in discussions on how they're gonna handle that because in the end, it's great for the student. It's good business to bring people in. And obviously it's good for the student. People might wanna look into it, but I'm pretty sure that the universities and colleges will make a decision. Am I gonna participate in this program? And they will, and they are agreeing to be satisfied with the tuition rate of Northern Vermont University. So that makes the available money travel even further. Yes, and we'll hope that's the case. Yeah, so how do people find out about, I mean, what do they do? Do they go through the guard or do they go to the institutions or? The first place is to contact a recruiter. I think that's again, getting over the stigma. You know, we're not gonna grab somebody and throw them in an unmarked van. It's like, look, we're open and transparent. This is a great organization. So I think the days of high pressure recruiting, whatever the images of that is, look the organization and the program, whether Air or Army will sell itself. We have a lot of great benefits, incredible opportunity, but the foundation element is you gotta talk to a recruiter because that's what they do. And they're well informed on the program and we mentioned before the show all the other benefits that come with being in the guard. A young person now who joins the guard, you pass the qualification test, pass your physical standard, you qualify for a specialty, you're probably eligible for some level of incentive. And we have critical specialties that will pay $20,000 as an incentive. So now you got a $20,000 bonus. If you're a single man or woman, you can get healthcare for less than $50 a month. And then dental care, life insurance, thrift savings plan, all of this for a part-time job, and oh, by the way, we're gonna pay for your college. All right. I want to make this. And it's probably gonna allow your career outside of the guard to actually progress further and faster than it otherwise would. And that's, look, it's a challenge, Chancellor. And nobody's, we're not gonna sit here and tell you that it's not a challenge because it's a challenge for employers. It's a challenge for families. But when you look at this organization and the legacy of service, both locally and nationally and internationally, and the import that we bring to this state, what we need to grow, we need to do better than we're doing right now. And I think that's why this program is so important for us. So who do you think this new free tuition benefit will be of most interest to people that are getting ready to graduate from high school to people that are already early in their guard career or people that are just never, they might want to progress further and didn't get a college degree? I think it's a little bit of all three. But the target market, obviously, is going to be bringing in new talent to the organization. You're in the guard. You have earned this entitlement. It is yours to use. But if I'm looking at what we're trying to do, so if I look at our organization right now, we have a lot of vacancies, a lot of vacancies. And we have a critical need for qualified people, just like Vermont has a critical need in workforce development to get people here and keep them here. That's the benefit of having an educated workforce. And if you're educated, you're absolutely correct. The resume building is there, depending on their specialty, they're probably going to have some level of security clearance. That alone, what's that worth to an employer on the outside? You have a vetted employee. They clearly have a work ethic because they finished their basic training, their advanced individual training, their officer training, whatever it is. We're a known entity. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely a competitive advantage. Absolutely. So when somebody graduates from high school, let's say, and they're thinking about their future, and let's say, and they go directly from high school or directly from an associate's degree or what have you, what are the entrance requirements to get into the guard? So you have to be physically qualified. Okay, right. And then there's a national agency check and a local agency check, which is your fundamental background check to make sure there's no significant criminal violations. And then you have to pass the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery, also known as the Armed Forces Qualification Test. Each service has different line scores. They evaluate them differently. But the purpose of it is to identify what it is that you can do. Passing score is 31. The highest score is, I think, a 99. If you're anywhere in the middle there, it's just gonna dictate what you can do. And then the recruiter will get, once you've done that, they work through the paperwork and there may be incentives, there may be bonuses, anything that's payable. And they take you down to the military entrance processing station, either Albany or Springfield. And then we swear you in. And the minimum sort of time requirements to get started in the guard? Generally, I have to defer to the recruiters on that. There are different commitments based on, I think, the level of bonus that you accept. It could be a four-year active service commitment. By active, I mean, you're a drilling member. And then you have a two-year commitment of an active ready reserve where you would drill once a year as a muster. It could be six by two, six years of the same thing, active drilling member, and then two. And then, of course, this, our program, is complimentary. It kind of parallels that. You have a service obligation anyway. You're gonna go to college. You get your four-year degree. Then you only owe us four years. And that, I mean, that's, now you're halfway to a retirement. And you can't do it concurrently, though, right? It is concurrent, yeah. So it's like, you know, at the end of, let's see, for every year of college, it's a two-year commitment. So you go, yeah, that's why you said four at the end of it. So I graduate and then I owe four years. Okay, that sounds great. And again, that four years that is after you get your four-year degree, let's say, is you can hold an outside job at the same time. That's correct. And it just opens up. As I said, it's a challenge. Don't say it. It's a challenge. But getting ahead in life is a challenge. And that's a good thing, I think. But it just opens up a whole host of opportunities. And there's something, I mean, whether it doesn't matter what your role is in the military and the guard. Education's good, because it applies to the advancement process. Whether you're a non-commissioned officer, that's points on the promotion board. Whether you're a chief warrant officer, it's the same. You know, to go from a warrant officer one to a warrant officer two and three, there are still educational requirements. We never stop learning in the military. We have two things going on here. One, I have to complete my civilian education to get to certain points in my career. But then I also have a professional military education. There are still gates that we have to hit on both sides. And that's whether you're a non-commissioned officer or a warrant officer or a commissioned officer. It's a very educated force. Right now, I just checked yesterday, 21% of our force has a four-year degree. I believe, what was my number here, 12% have some college and 5% have advanced degrees. Well, I'd love to see that grow. And I think this, to your point earlier, it's people that are in. It could be senior folks, it could be new folks, it could be certainly recruits coming in. Right, well, people have heard in Vermont about sort of the demographic, the population trends. And we hear about the governor often saying there are 30,000 fewer students in the pre-K-12 system now than there were 20 years ago. And there are a lot fewer students that are, that means obviously that the pipeline coming out of high school is getting smaller. But we also know that there are an awful lot of people, it's actually about 40% of students that are graduating from high school are not going on to any post-secondary education or into the military or anything. So if Vermont is gonna be able to address and thrive with a general overall population trends, we really need to help that group that's not going on to find a way that works for them and is meaningful and relevant and allows them to move forward. So I would hope that this program would be really an inducement for them to actually think about getting some discipline, making a difference for the state of Vermont, getting their post-secondary education. I do also wanna say, Colonel, though that within the Vermont State College system, although the majority of our students other than perhaps Community College of Vermont, which has always served a little older group, the traditional populations that is at a Northern Vermont University or a Castleton or a Vermont Tech have been students graduating from high school. But we see that starting to change. We have more adult students that are in our classrooms. As I mentioned, all of our colleges are designated military friendly. So they've got a special person that's actually, their job responsibilities are to be the coordinator for folks that are military connected on the campuses, have their own lounges. And we're thrilled to see an older population coming in that actually adds to the kind of like the vitality of the classroom. So we love to see it. Yeah, so I'm hoping that we can help that group too. When I went to Johnson State, I was by far the oldest person in the class. And I was certainly the odd person there because everybody else was a traditional young, what you would envision as a, and I have showed up in uniform when I was 10 years older than all of them. And how did you like that? It was great. I thought it was great. The professors appreciated it because I just had a perspective. I had a little more experience. I don't know that I'm any more mature, but. Well, yeah. But it was a really great experience for me. And that's what I would tell you. The other benefit of this that we really haven't talked about, it's good for certificates. So if somebody were to go to a certificate producing program and you get a certificate in whatever it is, welding, license, practical, nourishment, electrician, this past legislative session, the other thing that passed was our ability and the legislature's ability to crosswalk a certification on the military side into a professional certification on the civilian side. So our military training, like a paramedic or an EMT, because we have those, those are opportunities, those would crosswalk and translate. And I think it's through the Board of Professional Regulations that it actually gets translated. That's fantastic, yeah, that's really great. It's a kind of a hidden benefit. The other thing I would tell you is we need to really look at bringing people to Vermont because people will leave and they will go to different colleges and different schools and we're not gonna see them again. As I mentioned before, I had a great experience with Vermont State Colleges. It was tailorable, it was scalable, it fit my schedule. It was a hybrid between going to campus, distributed learning, independent studies. They did what they had to do to get me to where I could get my degree, because I work full-time. You know, I'm a father, I'm a husband, I can't be at school all the time. Imagine the import of this when you've got folks outside of Vermont who realize what a good product is in Vermont as far as a higher education system. Well, we need to do that too, absolutely. So for us, it comes down to a matter of marketing. Internally, I'd like to see more engagement and get out with what we call the center of gravity, who's influential in the community that can help us tell this story. It's the high schools. Guess what, Colonel? I mean, we've been talking, having a good time. We are actually out of time. And I have to actually end the program, but I have to just finish by saying, A, thank you very much for coming in. Thank you for your service to this state and the country. I think this new tuition-free benefit for guard members is going to be good for the guard. It's definitely going to be good for the Vermont State College's system. And most importantly, it's going to be good for Vermonters. So I hope people will look into it. They can just go down, talk to a National Guard recruiter. If they wanted to come to one of the Vermont State Colleges, we've got people that are designated who can help point them in the right direction. So let's hope for the best. And I'd love to hear a report in a year or so as to how this is really motivating. I'll tell you, I think we're going to be reporting and then letting the legislature know how this is working out. Absolutely. Well, thank you very much for coming in. Thanks, Chancellor. Thanks for watching Higher Education Matters. I hope you'll join us again. I'm Jeb Spalding, Chancellor of the Vermont State Colleges System.