 Welcome to the April 1st, 2024 development review board meeting for the city of Montpelier. This meeting is now called order and Meredith will go over the remote meeting procedures. Okay, so I'm going to be sharing my screen. I think everybody who's on remotely has seen this except for Fred. So this is both for people who are attending remotely right now, as well as. People who might be watching live stream over Orca media. I'm going to get in your space. And I want to sometimes see that link. There we go. Okay, so for anyone watching tonight's meeting via Orca media, you can participate in the development review board discussion through either video or telephone access options. You can either type this link into your web browser and I'll get a notification that you want to join the meeting through my email, or you can dial this phone number and when prompted put in this meeting ID. And again, I'll get a little email or notification that you want to get into the meeting. If you have problems accessing the meeting, please email me at mcrandle at Montpelier hyphen vt.org. I will be monitoring my email throughout the meeting. For those attending via zoom turning your video on is optional. And if you're having issues with sound quality, actually turning off your video can make a big difference and make sure that we can hear you and you can hear us for everyone attending. Please keep your microphone on mute when you're not speaking this will help reduce background noise. And if you have questions or otherwise wish to speak and haven't already been called on by the chair, please raise your hand, or you can use the raise hand button on your zoom toolbar, and then the chair will call on you. Please note that the zoom chat function should only be used for troubleshooting or logistics questions that you have a question if anyone has a question or comment about an item on the agenda if you're on via zoom. Please raise your hand. If you're here in the audience again also raise your hand and then you can come up to the podium with the microphone to talk. In the event the public is unable to access this meeting it will be continued to a time and place a certain on now hand the meeting back over to the chair. Thank you. Dear B members let's introduce ourselves maybe starting in the top ready I'm going to there Rob. Rob Goodwin vice chair DRB. Joe. Joe Karen and DRB board member. And then I'll be at the end. I have no coddle DRB member. Meredith Crandall staff. Chair now chair. Catherine Burgess member. So we have two applications tonight I feel like. If we are tidy with our time that we can probably get through both of them tonight in a fairly decent manner. I guess. Let's raise of hands for people who year for 172 river street. Okay. Okay. Well, I mean, unless there are other comments, let's just get started on that. Well, approval. You know, I have that starred so that I remember that. Can I get a motion to approve the agenda. Great. Oh, so. For testifying tonight on what. Have to vote. I don't want to do the approval thing. Okay. Sorry. Okay. So we have a motion. We have a second in favor. All those in favor of approving the agenda. Aye. Aye. Aye. Does not favor. Good. Sorry. I got it in minutes. Okay. So for people who are going to be testifying, it's the 172. River street. If. And Fred, will you be testifying also? Yes. Okay. Only only if I have had something as well. If you think there's a possibility you'll have say anything. I'd like to get you swear you in. I swear you in. So any, anybody who is planning on testifying for 172 river street, please raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth under the pains and pedals forgery. I do. Great. If you could just do a very brief introduction, I think it's a pretty straightforward one. And then we'll go to the applicant. So bring us through this process. Okay. So this is some changes at the ribba dub. Car wash out on river street. And it's, I don't know if the DRB has ever seen this project before. Because it previously was a permitted use. And, you know, it's been there for. Decades at this point. It's been there for a long time. And it's been there for a long time. And I think it's the car wash in this zoning district was changed to a conditional use. So because there's some changes to how that use is done. And because the building is getting bigger. I had it come here before the board. Because I'm not allowed to approve those changes. Okay. Your name. Mr. Great. Do you want to just give us a little quick description of what you've got going on there. Okay. So we're going to add one more service and one automatic. And we'd like to offer more. One more choice for our customers. So we're taking out two of the self-service base. And we're going to add in one more automatic. To do that. I needed to add six feet to the rear of the building for one bay. Basically from me to Alex here. That's as wide as we have to go. But we're reducing from five bays down to four bays. But we also think it's going to make it a nicer project nicer building. Nice or property. Okay. We're not encroaching on the road. Right. Only moving that one. Bay that has to be six feet longer. Just out. And we're going at an angle. So we'll need to be six feet out of these slightly less than that. Because it's going to be diagonal. A line up the way the other building is. So the things that I had. I just wanted to make sure that we've covered them and it looks like it. And. This is not something I actually knew before reading this tonight is that car washes are required to contain all their wastewater onsite and prevent it from running off into the property or municipal. Storm drains which makes sense. So is that any of that configuration going to change with the new bay? No, no. So going to have the water going the same way. Okay. Alex, can you just pull your microphone a little closer? Just where do you contain it? Well, the water goes up. You clean it and then discharge. Yes. No. Yes. No. We got there's three collecting pits. So you have the floor where you wash your car and the dirt goes on the floor. That catches the bulk of your mud. Then you've got the dirty water which goes into the drain. And there's another drain there which catches your mud. And then you go into a big pit. 90% of your mud. Then it goes up and goes to another pit where it collects even more. And then it goes out into the sewer. So water does go into the sewer, but it's just been cleansed of particulate matter. And we have the PNP septic used to be the city, but PNP septic comes down and keeps those tanks clean. Do you recycle water? No. No, it's just, it's a one-shot deal. Correct. No. No, everything is approved for the state to be used. I'm just curious. A little relevance for this, but the other car wash up on the pioneer street. Laser. Laser, right. That has a collection system and a reuse doesn't it? I think they're similar to me. Yeah. I mean, I don't know how it's done where it collects and collects, and then they have PNP septic come every few weeks. Same as I do. Sorry to get distracted, but I've always wondered about that. It pretty much has to be done. Nobody uses, nobody recycles the water. We used to recycle the water. We tried to do that when our original building and it, and you can't clean the cars with milky water when it's rinsing the car. It just doesn't, it just doesn't work. A lot of dirt roads in Vermont. But it means that that milky water is also going into the sewer treatment tank. From water system. As it has and as it does for all car washes and that is not something that we can change here. Yeah. And they've, I mean, the cleaning requirements are per the state. Yeah. Keep in mind, keep in mind you're getting rid of two bays and adding only one. And so that usually that should be less water use. I didn't mean it to be an optional question. It was a curious question. Okay. Sorry. Try to help. Okay. So the other thing actually that it's kind of a tricky spot where you are there. Although it seems like the traffic has worked actually pretty well there in terms of, you know, it's a big huge curb cut, but there's time enough to get out of the bay and not be in the road. We've owned it for 35 some odd years, close to 35 years. We've never had an issue and the people that owned it before us had it even longer. You know, so, I mean, there's been no issue with that. Yeah. No, it seems like it's set up pretty well. You don't want cars cut in front of each other trying to get out. Cause if you know you're, you're kind of sheltered. You don't have a view left to right. You stick your nose out and somebody's coming that way along with your traffic. It would be a very bad situation. Yeah. So that's why the curb cut is the entire extent. Yeah. So if you, if you don't have a lot of room between, it was built way back when you don't have a lot of room between the road and that. Right. And way back when they didn't have suicidal bike lanes. Exactly. Glad you said that. It's one below my house. It's painted. Cross traffic. I know I did. That was my one point of humor and reading all of this is that you probably didn't need a bike rack. I'm like, I had a car wash. I mean, I do what I can with the regulations we have to help guide the discussion. Staff might want to bike. Right. Right. Yeah. So my good. That's a good enough. Okay. I guess that little note, my staff reported about the cassola transfer station didn't. Wasn't a hundred percent accurate. We'll get there. Okay. Landscaping requirements. There's really nothing being changed there. So I. That's a bad idea. It's a lighting is the same except for one. Light that's going to be moved in the back between the two bays. Is that correct? So they would light up the four bays. We had two lights left that area. Yes, that will be changed. We're probably going to go similar to a down. Drop light like at the other one. LED type style, something like that. Yeah. So we also didn't even get to that part of picking out a light for that, but we're going to make it look good. Credit to do both same to make it look good. And that's an existing light that's there right now. Yes. And is that shielded? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Great. It's also in the back of the building. In the back of the building is on the front of the building. Okay. And I know this is, I just wanted to check my geography here. It sounds like the back of your lot is fairly well wooded. It's got some cedars that just sort of block off that back area. Right. So you can't really know vision site anything through there. There's nothing back there. There's no buildings. There's no, if there are buildings would be the sheds that are down lower, but there'll be no light that will get to them because of the trees. Great. Do the board members have questions? Anything else you wanted to bring up? I just had a couple. So far as the technology of the wash, washing, anything changing as far as like speed or something that would be more desirable for people to use or, you know, what not. Well, that's the way one of the reasons why we're putting one other one in there is to give you another option for your choices. So you'll have one that will touch your car, one that will not touch your car. And then you'll have two that you can do yourself. If you don't wish to go through that. Okay. Answer your question. No, I guess the second part of it is, you know, I think there's a pretty good conversation back and forth. The public works about, you know, traffic and your knowledge of the site about traffic. I think I just want to do our due diligence here to make sure that, you know, two months or now we don't have traffic queuing going into the street, you know, any issues. And I just didn't know if you committee expound upon your, you know, your communications with public works and just like why you think that that won't be an issue. Corey and I had a discussion about that because that was one of his concerns. He brought it up to me. And by the way, we're doing the bill. You're going to actually gain three extra car parking spaces for cars or stacking spaces, which we think is good. And we're going to try to work it so we can have double lines so that we can get, if their cars do get there, we'll be able to try and funnel them as traffic into the correct lanes where they want to go. So it's, you know, so it'll be more regular. More in line with everything you want. But in all the years, like I said, we've never had the cars and go into the streets, no matter how busy we've been. And we're reducing the number of bays to four instead of five. And self-service take long time to wash your car. So we think we're going to speed things up. It's different than the other car wash is up the street because they have free memberships. And they just, people will sit there and wait in line. And it's also a conveyor belt system. So it just keeps going so cars can keep inching along. Ours is more of a stop, wait six minutes to eight minutes. Next person goes in. Most people, when they see more than three or four cars in line, they just go and they come back another time. So we don't ever accumulate the road lines. It's not accurate, Rob. Anything else on that one? I just want one more. So a touchless car wash. You don't think that that could be more popular and all of a sudden you have a much more use than you've had in the past? It's all based on time. No matter how much you want to see a lot of cars go through, I can only get maybe 10 through in an hour. So it's not like you can do it like Fred said, one after the other every minute or whatever, you know, to send people through. So that's the way it lines up. And with the extra, you know, we're going to think three to four spaces we'll be able to get by having them line up thing that gives us even more room for stacking. But even today, if you went by the car wash today, the line went right down, you know, laser was very busy and they had it right to the end of their driveway. And you went by our place and we were busy too. We had, you know, a couple of cars in the self-service bay or four cars even in line for the automatic. I had room for another five cars, not to mention the one we could have lined up in front of the self-service. It just, we had no problem getting that line in on such a crazy busy day. And it doesn't get any busier than right now during mud season. So we've gotten a pretty good track record. We haven't had anything ever get into the roads that I've never been called once in 35 years of doing this, of traffic getting into the road. And I have no plan on it doing it now. And I have two places in Berry, one on the North by Granite Museum. And that's my smallest lot. And it's actually built very much like what we want to do here in Montpelier to self-service and the same two style automatics, a laser and a soft touch. And even that place doesn't have the cars getting the road. So I think we've been pretty good about that. They moved through pretty good. Great. Thank you. That's some helpful information for me. Thank you much. You're welcome. Any other things here? Is the changes in the neighborhood? That's the last criteria that we need to look at. And that is to make sure that the impacts of the use shall be consistent with the neighborhood, especially with respect to noise, hours of operation, other features that define the area's character. And the application or actually Meredith report mostly clears that up. I think the project will decrease the number of washbays at the facility. They're going to be closed, which should actually be quieter. And it is essentially the exact same purpose that it has been so that I don't feel like it's changing anything a lot. Do other people have other thoughts on that, on matching the neighborhood concerns? It might be useful for you to just elaborate briefly on the noise question. Is there anything... She hit it on the head. Self-service are the same as they've always been, but there'll be two instead of four. So that'll be better. And then the automatics will both have new doors put on, which will also reduce the noise level. Thanks. Also the new automatic we're putting on is a brush unit. And it's significantly quieter than the high pressure unit next to it. Great. Thank you. I would entertain a motion. Oh, I'm sorry. Meredith sent around a late email. Oh, yeah. That's for the next application. Yeah. Next one. So if there's no further comment from board, I'll make the motion to approve the project at. 172. River Street. The entirety. Okay. Do you want a little more official reading? Is that Meredith? You could do that. Okay. The motion itself doesn't go into the decision. So it's fine. So we've got a motion. We have a second. You can't second it. So helpful though. Really. Thank you. So a second from Alex. Great. Any further discussion? Okay. Let's do it by roll call. Alex, how do you vote? Yes. Yes. Rob. Yes. Joe. Yes. Yes. And I vote yes as well. So that's unanimous. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you. Official decision will be the written one. And because there were no conditions on approval. When the decision is finalized and signed. We'll contact you when we've got that and the permits. We aren't relying on mail too much these days for anyone local. So I will probably email you guys when it's ready and somebody can come pick it up instead of us having to send it certified mail and hope that somebody catches you to sign it. I got my address on there. Yeah. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for all your help. You're welcome. Thank you. Okay. Our next applicant is 378 East Montpelier road. Yeah, it's me. It's not. Yeah. I'm sorry. I didn't see the email. That's it. It's very short. It's very, very short. If for some reason that's not working, just let me know. I can always plug it into my laptop. Okay. First, I'd like to swear in the applicants and anyone who would like to give testimony during this. So if you can please raise your right hand. So it's on the site plan review. We solemnly swear to sell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth under the pains and health ease of perjury. Excellent. Great start. Okay. Quick overview Meredith and we'll let the applicant run with the description. Yeah. So I'm just gonna do more of a procedural overview. Perfect. The application includes. Construction of an addition and that addition is large enough plan review, even if there's nothing really controversial about it, it's one of those things that the DRB is required to approve. I don't see any really red flags for this. There's a few little things in the staff report, but you have to make decisions on, but otherwise not crazy. For the record, could I get your names? John Gay with the Salloway Systems. Okay. Brian Bodwin with Sam Warren Head and Associates. Great. Thank you so much. I go by Joe. Confused things a little bit. If you could maybe give us a brief overview of what your plan is and then maybe we can go through the application and just clarify some of those spots. So we are proposing to replace the existing administrative offices at our facility that was destroyed this summer, July, with flooding that we had. So essentially the building was rendered totaled and we started to work down the path with Meredith and the city on a replacement office for the staff there. And what we're proposing to do is move the location out of the floodway. It was obviously in the floodway. So it's moving, I guess, further north and east and will be directly adjacent to the existing structure that's there. I keep referring to the... Sorry, Brian, are you doing the shear screen? You need to do a shear screen. Oh, I thought it was sharing. Remotely so that Joe can see it and then it should fill the screen. Says it's disabled. Oh, you know what? I think that's a security thing. So hold on one second. Sorry, city council. Just allow all participants to share screen. That's working. Maybe not. Well, it will be eventually Meredith can also share from here. So that's just let her know what you need to have shared and she can share it for you, right? Yeah. I mean, I can tell if you're just pulling it up from the application, I can do that. You should be able to. Yeah. It's just saying host, disabled, participant, screen, sharing, if you see it on the screen. Shared. Oh, there's two different places. Try that one. Yep, that did it. All right. Okay, we're on talking about moving the building. Could you close it next time? Could have. Sorry, Joe. Try this again. Sorry. Here we go. That's open. Now you got a share screen. Yeah. There you go. Fantastic. So I think there's some value to having the site plan up. Yeah, that's where it's kind of walking through it. The gray building that you see in the cut out is the existing building. And of course, the blue with the Cassella logo, it would be the new office. So we are proposing for the replacement offices to be a bit larger than the prior office space. We had for years rented space from Chuck Haines and still do, but what we want to do is just get everybody moved into our own, you know, office. The proposed office would be three stories. The second and third levels would have the administrative functions, the offices, conference room, bathrooms, typical office space, the bottom floor. We would have access to we'd like to once in a while pull out a grill and cook lunch for the drivers and the staff. So we want to have access for storage and things like that. So that's what the bottom floor would be. Full elevator access from the bottom floor to the second and third floors. And yeah, I think that's essentially it. Unfortunately, you know, we had the issue with the flood. And so, you know, we're looking to move to the next chapter and increase the size of the office a bit and get everybody together in one location. People have questions. I think we want to just start going through this. Let's see if I can find this here. No, I think it wrote it on your comments in the application. I just a generic question I didn't know. I've never seen the term before. What is, how do you place in addition back the material we placed in one foot compacted lifts? That's the flood hazard stuff. I have to include the whole cover letter. Right. A whole bunch of stuff at the beginning of that cover letter all has to do with river hazard area regulations that I have to deal with. Would it be fair if somebody told me though? I can answer that. Oh yeah, thanks. I was like, so anyway, I just, all that means is related to when you build a building, you're placing fill, whether below the building or around it. You want to do that in what's called structural lifts and to do so, you have to compact it in one foot lifts and then you test it, then you put another one foot in, then you test it. Make sure that you're reaching certain compact. I was not familiar with the term. Okay, thank you. Hold up the building in the surrounding areas. Yeah, I would just say something like, don't feel weird about not knowing. I was like, I don't know what that is. I'm lost here. Okay. I learned one last. Go back to this. So it sounds like you're pretty much all set with setbacks and you're not hitting any new borders or anything. So that's good. This is the first application I've seen with that whole river hazard piece in it. So that's kind of was interesting to follow. And that is not something that we is in our jurisdiction. And I actually took, if you've gone and seen pulled it from the pending applications page, there was more river hazard stuff in there. I actually pulled a lot of it from here. Right. It makes sense. But I thought that leading some of it in where there was some context made sense. And I wasn't going to cut up the cover sheet. That didn't make sense at all. Excellent. It's going through it here. It sounds like the erosion control plan has apparently substantial part of this. And was there a graphic on this? The erosion control. I mean, I think it's not really, it was... Yeah. This project's below one acre in size. So they don't need to have a formal erosion control plan. All right. They just have to follow the Vermont rules for stormwater management during construction. And there's, I mean, there's a large area of disturbance, but it's all pretty flat. Right. So it didn't have the slopes in size too. Yeah. And so it didn't trigger like a big formal plan, but there's notes in there about, I think in the cover memo about the fact that there will be, you know, erosion control measures put in place because they still have to follow the basic standards under the zoning rights. Okay. Yeah. I think it's going to get a state stormwater permit. So we're good there. And it looks like the Department of Public Works was fine with that as well. Yeah. So that was, that was that email that I sent around to all the board members. And I give you a copy, Brian, when you came in, that I did get this afternoon final written comments from the Department of Public Works that basically they don't have any issues, the DPW workout final details of utility connections through the utility public works permitting process. And that Kurt Monica, the director just asked that there be a note saying the applicant shall work with the DPW to obtain the necessary permits related to those connections. That could be a condition on the, on just a note. Yeah, it can be a finding of fact in the decisions that I can find in there. It doesn't need to be a condition if the board feels like it needs to be a condition it can, but I mean, they have to get those permits. So we usually try not to condition a zoning permit on obtaining other permits. That's usually causes confusion. Yeah. I might add too that the existing structure had full municipal water and sewer service as well. Yeah. Matt, I have a process question. This is more for learning for narrative on this around stormwater. Is there anything we should be aware of any difference of the process when it's a river hazard area around stormwater? No, because the river hazard area is a whole, it's not your standard stormwater, right? It's a whole separate situation that is about really more about life and safety and reducing property loss during flood events. Um, and so your, your stormwater, where does the water go after it, you know, falls off of building, isn't the situation so much as what happens when you have too much water coming up from somewhere or other? I think so, helpful clarification. Yep. Um, parking was fine. All right. What if that's the bike rack? What? You do, you do, except for the bike rack. Oh, right. Do you have, the board has the option to may require bicycle access and storage. I suppose it's a little more like going down the car wash, but not much. Yeah. I'm okay with that bike rack. Yeah. Do you think, I mean, do you think it's. It's cute. I mean, there's also plenty of space on the site. So if somebody did want to ride their bike over there, it's not like there's no untrafficked way where you couldn't took your bike for a little while, I believe. Um, so the parking moved basically, it's the same number of sites. Is my understanding? It's correct. It's parking moved from, and there isn't really a front given a street frontage, that you're not on the street kind of, you have your own right of way in there. So, existing parking to be relocated around to the side of it. Is that where you're going to move it to? I do have it up on the plan. You want to see it? I can highlight it here. So this is, this is existing office building. You can kind of see the distance. It's off the maintenance garage. This box here is where the new space is going to go. So the existing spaces where we're here and here. And so they're basically moving as we get. Uh-oh, just happened. It was probably a wire connection with everything. It may have also just been the projector. That's right. So basically those parking spots moved to the front of the building. So you can see this orange square here. That's for the old office. Okay. Thanks. It is. That's helpful. Yeah. So as much as you have a front to your building. And you, there's, it looks like there's an accessible spot. Yeah. There's a handicap spot right up here. There's a handicap ramp that approaches from this end of the building to the first floor. Right. And so that's where the handicap spot is. Mary, this question is for you, I think. When you're looking at the total impervious surface, is this access road also count or not? I just wondered that. I mean, the access road is technically off the parcel. Right? Right. That's the achievement. What are you talking about? There is an easement. Yeah, it's an easement. So you wouldn't be responsible for that? No. Okay. So that's technically a different parcel. You're talking about this right here. Yeah. That's technically a different parcel. Okay. Right? My understanding, based on where the property line is drawn there. That's my understanding. Yeah. So that's. It's shown as an easement. Yeah. That's what that attaches for. So. Yep. Okay. Yep. Because it's by all the coverage is by parcel. Okay. And this is all surveyed. I think that's already at eights. No, it's just one. Oh, just, okay. Yeah. Eights. Just yours. Okay. Thanks. All right. I have a question. The transfer function and the recycling centers that remains untouched. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Unchanged. The drop-off, the municipal or the residential drop-off is unchanged. Right. Yeah. So, one thing that I would like to touch on is our landscaping plan. Sure. And I think there's a map for that as well. One of the ways that you covered to get the appropriate amount of impropriate surface was to add some garden vents. Is that right? Garden vents. Yes. So, this whole area here is the landscaping area. Okay. To the front of the building. And then they're planting trees that got washed away during the storm to replanting some trees along this riverbank. So, that's the landscaping for this project. Did you have trees there before? There were. Along the river or next to the building? Along the river. So, that deflect took those all out. Just wondering about that. Yeah. So, there's, I mean, you've got the one, the big area there that's also around the stormwater situation. And then you've got the, between the parking and the building and then on the west side. Right, right here. Right. Yeah. Okay. And I can, if you look back at this sheet, it might actually be a little clear. So, everything in this light green. Yep. This is all landscape area. Okay. And so, this is the stormwater treatment feature that's in the middle of it. So, in a hundred words or less, how exactly does that work? Sure, a hundred words or less. This, basically, this is primarily for rooftop treatment. Okay. So, there's going to be a rooftop drain that drains into this little garden swale, if you will, and into what's called a biofiltration treatment practice. And what that has in it is basically, there's baskets that are buried below grade that have basically, they're wide open. And above that, you put in filter material and above that some sandy materials. What happens is the material, the water as it flows down into that treatment system migrates through the sand, gets cleaned, gets collected into those catch basins, if you will, below. And then gets discharged to a stormwater calvert. Okay. Thank you. Did you count? I was thinking you were pretty good there that you got under 100. I thought that was reasonable. I'm not very told about it. Okay. So, just to clarify also, the garage, that's a maintenance garage to the right of that. And that is going to, those two buildings are going to actually be joined or is that doorway now through the two of them? There is going to be a doorway from the office into the shop, yes. Okay. But I believe that the building is actually separate. It's an addition, but yeah. It depends which regulations you're looking at during storage accounts. I'm going to say, they also really appreciate the number of regulations you have to review this by. Oh, you mean the fact that there's two sets of zoning regulations to apply to this application? Yes. That's what I meant. Okay. So, another thing that I think would be good to just do a quick review of is lighting. So, we've got a lighting plan up here, I think. Just a second. There's a couple, but this is the one for the new building. Don't make things harder. Okay. So, what are we looking at here exactly? So, this is the new office space. And these WP numbers are all affiliated with a light. So, WP2 is on each side and WP3 here and here. So, and then there's another light that's being proposed in front of the maintenance garage along the walkway. Okay. How does this vary from the existing lighting that is on the... Is it building still there? The office that was previously there? Still there, but we are open to demo it next week. Is this more light? It's a bigger building, so I would think that it would be more light. We're well below the total luminescence of the property. I think the only question I had really raised for this was, there was one unshielded, yeah, whether potentially unshielded lights that were staying in the garage should be brought into compliance. You know, if they're unshielded and for security purposes, as long as they've got, say, timers or motion sensors on them, that's something that the board could potentially have, you know, okay as a continuing security measure. Okay. But generally, if you're changing a class, a type of lighting on a building or on a parcel, you're supposed to bring everything into compliance. And technically, you're not supposed to have unshielded lights unless they're for security purposes, usually. And where is that light? That's EL9? Uh, yes, I think EL... Is that, you said it's on the front of the maintenance building? EL9. Yeah, EL8 and EL9. I think we're the ones that were remaining. So, I can also find it in my... So, we did need some kind of confirmation about how they were directed. Yeah, do you have the photos? Yeah, I'm just trying to... Yeah, probably gonna be easier if I just go to the photo. And the photos have the numbers on them too. Yeah, I think they did. Oh, yeah. There we go. So, EL9. Oh, yeah. Yeah, so these... Seemed to be pointing out. Yeah, really does look like that. Those look like they can be turned down. They do look adjustable. So that, so having those lights coming straight down would be okay, right? Yeah, as long as the light is going below the horizontal. On the lamp fixture. Yeah. Or if, I mean, if they need to be facing out because they're pointing towards something where you need the light to go further, it would need to be sort of a timer or security situation so that they're not, you know, or motion sensor situation. So, what is the purpose of those lights? So, we're trying to noodle through it right now, but a couple of those lights have got to come off. They're gonna be removed. Yeah, so there was, I think the one of those that looked like it needs to be coming off is EL1 based on where you were putting the new lights and where the addition was going. I think EL1 is coming off and EL2 is coming off. Yeah. Based on my comparison of the plans, it was EL8 and EL9. This is EL8 right here, Joe? Yeah. And EL9's right here. Okay, got it. Yeah, with, we have absolutely no problem with switching those out for a compliant light. I mean, you know, no, that's not an issue. I think that makes sense. Yeah. So, I think, you know, the board can approve it with the permit, you know, could. Specify that the lights are compliant. Or they just have to get me, you know, before I issue the permit, I would have to review the lights. Okay, I mean that. Make sure that the new light fixtures comply. Okay. That would be good. Good. Would you like questions on that lighting? Okay. So, we're once again in, we're in the architectural standards of buildings must appear similar in mass and scale structural structures typical of the neighborhood match the building and roof forms typical of the neighborhood avoid box like warms. I know, you're told me. Okay, so it seems that I'm just saying, do you have like a not just look on me. It seems like it's very in scale with the building that's there. I mean, it's, it's more appropriately scaled than the other office walls, frankly, so that we've increased your what that looks like. And then, you know, the neighborhood around there. What are what are your two neighbors there? So curly fuels, gas station. And they show that access road, right? Is that right? Excuse me. If, if you're just wondering if you want to say anything on the record, you got to be sworn in and then come up to the microphone so everybody can hear you. Um, so probably fuels is on one side of you. Is that what you said? An Agway. Yep. An Agway. Okay. So both of those are very large, very commercial properties. It doesn't seem inconsistent with me at all to the neighborhood. It seems like they've actually done fairly easy doing job with the facade and trying to break it up and make it interesting and somewhat human leveled and gardens. Um, I'm really interested in avoid the box like forms for buildings. No, don't even get you started. Okay. Never mind. I wasn't part of drafting the architectural, you know, standards for defining districts. So I don't. So this, I guess I'm not sure whether this is more of a river hazard area that I'm thinking about, but just where the utilities are, is that all river hazard? Oh, you mean like the elevation inside the building type of situation? Yeah. Yeah, that's all river hazard and that's all been backed out. Okay. Um, yeah. I mean, it looked like it had been, but I was just, I wanted to make sure that that's not us. That is not you. That's that whole separate set of information that I pulled out of here, including all the specifications on the flood vents and all of that. You guys didn't need to worry about those calculations. Um, there's ships there. Board members in the room, board members on zoom. Any other questions or issues? Can you take off the share screen so I can see people's faces a little better? Awesome. Thank you. I think we covered the key points, huh? Good catch on the lighting. I think that that's the, yeah, be resolved easily. Sounds like it. All right. Just as a double check. You guys are all okay with my reasoning on the parking shade trees? Yes. Yep. Awesome. That looks fine. Sounds like the most efficient way to do it. Yeah. I guess. Very. So we have a, um, anyone interested in making a motion? We grant the request for major site plan approval for the construction of a 7,170 foot square foot addition to the maintenance garage at 378 East Montpelier Road as presented in application D20240019 and supporting and supplemental materials. Prior to the permit issuance, applicants shall provide the zoning administrator with an updated lighting plan that's been formed with section three tools. Okay. Second. Okay. Any further discussion? Yes. That was an excellent motion. Perfect. This was. It was. All right. Let's do a roll call vote on this then. No further discussion. Alex? Yes. Kevin? Yes. Uh, Rob? Yes. No? Yes. Catherine? Yes. And yes for myself as well. Uh, just need to get Meredith a little updated lighting plan and you're good to go. Great. Thank you. So I will, we'll just get going on the written decision. Um, and that can, if I get done with that first, that'll get issued. But if you get a lighting updated lighting plan with the new lights in those two locations to be ahead of time, then we'll be able to do the decision and the permit at the same time. Otherwise, that's all I'll be waiting for if the decision comes out first. Um, and I, I do know I owe you another, another permit sales. So that's in my, in my queue. All right. Let's. Thank you very much for everything. Thank you. I appreciate it. You're welcome. Thank you. Please. Thank you. Thank you. You've got a great. All right. There it is. Okay. Um. And anyone, has everyone had a chance to review the meeting minutes from the March 18, 2000, 24 meeting? I can make a motion to approve for minutes. Okay. Yeah. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. All of those against. Hey, we're good there. Um, the next meeting is April 1st. Oh, no, that's April 15th at the minutes. I know I had to make the agenda in my hand. Sorry. April 15th. There are two applications. One is a sketch plan subdivision. And my brain is fritzing right now on what the other one is. They're on the pending applications page. Sorry. It's suddenly very loud out in the hallway. What was the other one? Oh, the other one is a conditional use. Yeah. Can you shut the door, Kevin? Thank you. You're awesome. So, there's just a two partial subdivision sketch plan. And then we're going to be revisiting the Vermont College of Fine Arts Library. A different applicant is looking at making that into a performing arts hub. Which structure? The library of Vermont College of Fine Arts. So 35 College Street. And so this is a little bit simpler than the prior proposal. One building, not three. Yep, it's one building. And they're keeping it also partly more of performing arts academic use. So the basement would be actually classrooms. But the upstairs would be a performance space, both for the classes that are taking place there, but also for visiting artists and have a little cafe. So take a look at that one in particular, if you can, pull it off the pending applications page and get a little look at it ahead of time. It's, you know, similar, but different. So it's happening with the school. Oh, Greenway is up there. Yep, they're up there. They've, they, I think they've signed on multiple buildings. So there's two different, there's the Greenway. And then there's the school that had been up there. They've expanded and have new school, has two buildings. I can't, I always get, I, because I have to look at the numbers, the addresses so often. I don't always keep track of the, the buildings. But, you know, I think that, you know, you may end up seeing some sign proposals come up before you for, for where there's, you know, the big entities that have multiple buildings needing to get waivers for signs because the system up there doesn't quite fit with the regulations. But we've actually have a lot of signs that are waiting for the zoning changes to happen, which hopefully will be this Wednesday, but we'll see. Okay. Maybe council keeps surprising us. They're not adopting anything. I'll keep you posted on that, because once they've adopted stuff, you guys will, anybody who has paper copies will need new copies of the zoning regulations. I know, I'm excited. Even if you just look at them remotely, I'll be giving you new places to go and download. Be a whole nother, whole nother packet. Yeah. Oh boy. How many stacks do you have, Kevin? Quite a few. What's that? How many stacks do you have? You've been here long enough. You have a lot of paper copies. I've got a lot of paper copies. Actually, we lost our old copies. If you have old copies that are still- I'm not sure. I did move the greenhouse. And I did clear a little stuff up. If you happen to have any of the old versions, let me know. I know where it would be if I do have them. Okay. So- Because we lost our paper copies of the old ones. The old paper ones. Yeah. I mean, we've got a lot of electronics, but not the really, really old ones. We lost a lot in the flood. Yeah. Yeah. That was a tragic moment. Yeah. Any previous business this evening? I'll make- People in the audience were others? Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yes. It's great civic engagement. Yeah. But will I not come to the meeting? Yeah. No, that's good. It's a way to get out and about. Okay. I'll make a motion to adjourn. Well, second. All those in favor? Bye. All. Bye. Thanks very much. See you guys in two weeks.