 Welcome to the European Jenkins doc office hours on the 11th of August. Today we have quite a bit of a agenda, some action items that marketing provide an update for. We have our Google summer code participant behind in the meeting so they'll be he'll be willing to share some updates and anything new that he might have for us there. We have the September LTS the Jenkins 2.361.1 release coming out and we have the change log up read guide and a blog post to make for it. There are a lot of changes so we have to address all those and make sure it's very clear. There is an item on improving the search results for Jenkins that Mark will be able to speak to a little bit more, but basically improving the results in ways that sort of just perform in Jenkins. The next LTS baseline again the one that's going to be coming out in September will require Java 11. So that's another big piece of it that we'll have to make sure our users are aware of. That's going to come along with a blog post, the upgrade guide, the change log itself. We're also going to this is a Java 17 supports also going to be coming as an option that's available to folks so having all this spelled out really really important and as we get closer to the release that'll be part of that gets taken care of. There's also the topic of the commercial support page that Gavin Morgan has proposed. It's got some feedback and we'd like to get some further discussion going on ideas topics or maybe additional items that we can throw in there to help make it a better page. I wrote in here about the blue ocean status statement because well has been implemented in most of the blue ocean docs pages. There are still a couple places that it needs to be added. I found that one of the tutorial pages needed an additional statement added and the Docker hub page still needs to get updated. And finally just an idea of change log entries coming from multiple repositories which Martin tells a little bit more about and just what that is going to entail. So, let's go ahead and get started. These action items. Mark, do you have anything that you'd like to share on the blog posts and mailing lists. I'm going to read the she code Africa contribute on result is the blog is posted. I'll put a link to it into that. And that's the only update. Okay, great. Thank you so much. Would you like to take us through the product and anything that you've been working on the last week. Sure. Thanks a lot. So, since last week, the first thing that it was moved to Java 11, as Mark mentioned the last meet so that reminded me and I moved it to Java 11 so that is done. And the issue that we were facing in the steps. So we were losing out some plugins. So I found out the issue and that was basically with the artifact that we were using the new artifact. And that has been changed and released and the new documentation is up to the month. The main thing that has been done this week was the good progress was about the project's main aim that was separating the documentation of new pages. So now I'm able to configure the pyrams that I want into a conflict file, and it's automatically separating those particular sections out from documentation. So if you would like I can share my screen and show you some results that I've obtained. Sure thing beyond let me go ahead and stop my share and you can take some of those four. So I'll go ahead and share. All right. I hope this is visible. All right. So I'll show you what I've done. I hope my VS code is also visible. Yeah, no problem there. Okay, so basically now what we can do is we can. So the user can enter any documentation maintainer could mention these params in the conflict file, and the process asky doc will iterate through this file and it will basically iterate through all the ASCII docs that are created from the step generation process, and it will look for those specific sections, and it will separate it out on the new page that will be fed on to a new location that is known as a params folder inside the steps pipeline steps. So the params folder will basically contain that specific section on the ASCII doc. And from every occurrence in the main box, those particular sections will be removed now. And there will be a hyperlink to these new pages that we have created. So let me show you what I've done so I've currently put these three parameters inside the conflict file that is first is class get SCM second is first is the class multi SCM. So I show you the results that are obtained, not about much on the UI of the links and all, but yeah, so you click on that and now you see that the get SCM documentation lost, and you can basically click on it, and it will need to onto a new page, and which will now contain the get SCM documentation, the entire documentation that was coming under get SCM. And the beautiful thing about this is it has this is this will happen everywhere the get SCM documentation was coming out to be repeated. So we have saved a lot of space that was that was being occupied by this. And I'll show you the example for this as well. So multi SCM was in itself, another class, which had these parameters inside it again. So it also had to get SCM so we'll have to we had to basically click through and now, but now when we click on this, it will lead us on to the same page so if you if you can see both these URLs are the same. So it is referencing to the same page. So I have implemented that to every hierarchy possible. So this can be basically understood for other things also so purpose also have done the same thing. And everywhere, the purpose parameters occurring, you can see that the new pages coming out to be the one that has been separated out. So basically, this will help us manually configure the parts that you want to separate out because it's not required to separate our smaller smaller parameters such as this one. So there is no actual user creating a new base for this. So the way that I thought was to go for the manual configuration other than the automated one. I've also put a threshold in this so now for example if someone mentions a walled SCM by mistake in the conflict file, it will first of all check whether the walled SCM in fact has that much documentation that has to be separated. So the threshold number that I've set is 500 lines. And if it does not cross that it will not separate it out. So basically there are some things that the person will have to keep in mind by entering values in the conflict file. And I'm going to document that once the full request gets merged, along with the full request maybe I'll be the read me that goes along with the repository, so that the things are consistent. And yeah, so I'll basically work on defining the class of bringing some more modularity and improving the variable names putting some comments. So, till next week, I'll try to get this full request merged. That's it from my side. Thanks a lot. So VHAN. Thanks very much. Would you be willing to keep sharing your screen for more questions or are you okay if we ask questions. Yeah, sure. Sure, sure, sure. Let's do it. Close it. Okay. Yeah. It looks great. That's absolutely wonderful. Tell me more about the user user experience there it looked like it was two clicks to do hit the data to convert the plus to dash. And then that gave me the link. So is there is do you have any picture of how could we get that to a single click so that when I click that plus it jumps to the page or is that is that infeasible or is there some other way to to reduce those two clicks to one. Right, so basically I did that only before so it was showing up as a blue link before. And then why I shifted to the click mechanism was it was looking inconsistent so basically opening up a page like this and seeing that subject do things sitting right there. I'm not sure which one looks better than that and I was going to ask that in the next talks of us about the UI part. So I didn't focus much on that, but I felt that it was looking slightly looking off if we have a blue link sitting there rather than having. So whoever wants to see the multi-stimulover is obviously press on this and they'll see oh there's a link over here and then they can basically click and go on. So yeah I'm not like decided which one to go with, but yeah, maybe for the next talk surface other be one of the agendas. Okay, thank you, I was just trying to understand so. So what you've what you've done it looks like is deduplicated so that get a CM instead of being replicated multiple times with all of the content it's got is now in a single location. And yet their navigation still they click that plus sign and it now gives them one one more click and they have the page. So this is basically applicable for every step. So I'll show you one more example, the big one pipeline. So it basically this itself has around three to two to three occurrences of the test team. And once we configure it properly, a lot of content on this page. So as you can see the loading time is already slightly reduced from what it was before. So I'll show you an example from a CM and again if you go ahead and click. This is the link that we want to see. So yeah, again the same. So basically, the way I'm doing it right now is not very efficient I would say, but it's not taking a lot of time. So I was surprised by how fast this is happening. So what I'm doing right now is for every keyboard that we have entered in this file, I'm iterating to all the ASCII docs and looking for the first occurrence of that particular particular parameter and then and once we are creating that new ASCII doc and not creating it again I'm not over writing it, but I am iterating through all the ASCII docs and creating that duplicates minus the parameter that we have separated out. Basically, all the documents that we see here are the duplicates after running one loop these are the duplicates of their previous version, but for the ones that do not have get the same for example the exact same thing has been copied on. So this is not very efficient to do but this was not taking a lot of time actually so for three parameters the running the entire build was was taking around nine to 10 seconds. And that is not a bottleneck because we want to generate the documents for so to ASCII doc is the bottleneck for my program for the processing layer would not maybe slow down much of the building time. But I want to make it more efficient in the future, that's for sure. So you have just proven once again that there are times when brute force search is the best way to do it. Excellent so you did it, you really are truly iterating more more times than absolutely necessary, and you've shown who cares that you iterate more times than necessary it's still faster than the than other parts of the conversion process. Well done. Thank you thanks really a smart way to reuse content. Thank you very much beyond appreciate it. Thanks to them. And let me just go ahead and bring this back up. Great, so thank you again beyond appreciate all that work you're doing and it looks great. Can't wait to see what else you can come up with. Okay, so, next on the list Jenkins 2.361.1 change log upgrade guide and blog posts. So, this is something that Mark I'll be working on. Mark, did you have a, did you want to talk about the point here. Yeah, so Fati Fati has been made made it clear. They want a higher level. And so what I was envisioning is maybe this one should be the evolution of Jenkins blog post and we talk about or the evolution of yeah the evolution of Jenkins and we talk about a multi year view. We switched from div based layout to table based layout 18 months ago and then we switched here and we switched here and we, or we did Java, Java seven to eight, this many years ago then we did tables to divs then we did. This UI set of enhancements issue so story after story and then conclude with, and now the next release will do Java 11. This is a new life for Java eight. And, and maybe that's the kind of story we want to tell there is a cross across a time period. I think that may be more engaging for their readers. Then again, it may be more than they want if all they want is a hey new release of Jenkins is coming we can do that easily. And two, we could maybe post it to two separate blog posts or maybe split it up a little bit so one is for the Java 11 changes and coming and then Jenkins retrospective kind of topic, I guess. But yeah, either way, I think that would be, yeah, that's totally. Yeah, I like that idea a lot. And obviously there's the previous Java 11 blog posts that Basil had created for the weekly release line so that all that information is readily available, which will be a big help for me and working on this. Right. Anything else on that one more. Nothing for me. Okay, great. So the next item on the list is the search improvements for Jenkins.io. And I know we've talked about Mark I we've said we've discussed how the search results may not bring up the expected results searching for upgrade doesn't show the upgrade guides. And this is due to Agolia needing to be upgraded. Currently it's on the legacy scraper and it needs to be updated to this format inversion. So as you recall, it's either yourself or Gavin that we need to do this is that still the case. Correct. Yeah. Got it. And is there any you have the GitHub issue as well track all of this progress so that's already made. Is there anything else that should be aware of for this, or is it just something that's going to be coming down the pipeline at some point. I think that work that somebody has to do who has permissions to the Agolia doc search facility, and those permissions are relatively limited I think it's just Gavin and me. Okay. Got it. Thank you very much. And so for the next LTS baseline we discussed that it's going to be requiring Java 11. The weekly release at the end of June already requires Java 11 and his job Java 8 support so now this will be mirroring that something I'll also need to do is make sure to update the existing blue Jenkins documentation so that there isn't a discrepancy for the weekly versus the LTS. So, that's something I'll need to update but that'll be a simple removal. The upgrade guide and change log are going to get started within the next couple hours by myself and mark, either in this meeting or after the fact. So that will have progress made, and we will be able to continue working on that as we approach the release date. The commercial support page proposal that was submitted by Gavin Logan. Still looking for ideas discussions feedback on this. If you feel strongly in any way you should reform about support, making a support page or being able to reach support. Any ideas are welcome here. And you know this is something that we want to improve and make it a lot easier for folks to be able to reach support vendors that we work with, whether it's support like vendor support or commercial vendors. So, regardless, we want to be able to have just really helpful information available to the chickens community. And this is one of the best ways that we can go about doing that for that. We do need some more information from the vendors themselves so that we can provide a better visualization for that what kind of offerings they have their location things like that so that we can make sure people are getting the most out of this site. Okay, Mark, did you want to. I was just going to have you open up that page as a prototype that there's no, no real compelling thing it's it's been a week or so since the last time that Gavin had time with it he did discuss it today and advocacy and outreach. And so he's still interested in it and that's a good sign. But, but it's unchanged from the last time we showed it. Okay. I'm just going to try and find it to bring it up here on the page or very top of the page I think yeah there it is great. No, yeah so that one. Yes. So yeah, so it's a really rough idea right now but something like this where we have those times that are available where offerings. They have community involvement which is great so you can see what plugins they work with and the community members that are part of that group so that's actually that's even more than the last time I saw it's awesome. Well and if you'll click the back link up at the top left. The top left of the page. So, there we go. So, so here we've got a concept and it might be cloud bees and red hat it might include one or more additional vendors that are doing commercial products based on Jenkins or doing support for Jenkins at this level and then you click through one of the requests that I had was give us a way to make the support thing a link. And so here he's done a support link. And that one won't help you you have to go to cloud bees the cloud bees example page because there I put a real link in. And those kind of things where okay how do I connect with them to if I want to pay them money in order to help me. And then the direct page just to get to base. Right, exactly. And, and the, then the questions on, Hey, what else should be in this is still an open discussion. Right. So, so based on all that again, any feedback is welcome here. The link is in the agenda for this idea. And I can post it in the Gitter channel if anyone else would like to check in on it or just read through. If you don't have to make suggestions you can just find out to talk being discussed. Okay. The blue ocean status statements something came up earlier this weekend of last week we've added it to more pages and places since it was missing from location such as the actual blue ocean plugin page itself. And the Docker hub page needs a status update added for the blue ocean container it's a different process of updating though and we need to make sure we have right permissions and an ability to go ahead and update that before we can make that update. And then something that I noticed what I was looking through is that a couple of the tutorial pages don't have the status statement on there so I'll be adding that later this week, early next week to make sure that everything is aligned. So if you want to touch base on the channel on entries, or Oh, sorry. So, oh, oh yes, I haven't posted that yet that's another action item for me. Okay, yeah. So just the fact that there are multiple repositories where anything could be coming in for the changelogs for the releases making sure that it's a little bit more consolidated or streamlined to prevent any kind of misstats or what not. Right. And then, next week, Mark is going to be on vacation so he will not be joining us for the meeting. Also be here so we will still happen. And we're going to check in with Damian to see if he can host it for us. I guess what I'm raising is we need somebody I'm not sure that we've got enough time to get you permission to be given the access to the zoom account. So we need somebody who already has it we know that Damian has it. I'm pretty sure that Alyssa Tong has it as another possibility. And so it's if you're okay with it Kevin can you negotiate with one of them to see if you can get some help from them to do it. Yeah, of course. Yeah, that's not a problem at all and I know Alyssa helped us host one of the meetings when you're out of office weeks ago so she was, yeah she was available to do so. And this is much closer to her time zone than to than to Damian so that's great. Okay, yeah, so then I'll check with it's about that. And yet that way we can have a host and everything and I'll still be here available for the meeting so it will still happen. But yeah we'll just have to have someone helping us out there. All right. So we've gotten through the agenda and action items is there anything else that we'd like to touch base on and to the agenda, make comments about. Nothing for me. Okay. So we're going to start talking about working on the change log upgrade guide 23611 on our own separately from this. So, next time we'll be able to share some further information about that. Anyone else, or does it feel like we've covered everything. Is there going to be a docs project for October fest this year you have anything planned that's kind of more geared for writers or. Good question. Maybe we ought to put it as a topic on the agenda here because there certainly are things that we can encourage writers to but we'll need to do some prep work if we want writers to be involved in October fest. It's good idea. I think we might have a couple ci writers who are interested so I just want to mention that I'd like to participate again to. Yeah, good suggestion so let's put it on a on a topic for future and be sure that we give some thought. Definitely. Great idea. So let's maybe I can capture some quick ideas so for instance we have many places that need to convert docs from wiki to get up to mark down. And that we're still continuing we've got lots and lots of work to do there the report is available. We just need to highlight we've taught people in past years how to do that. It's an easy one to teach again. Hey, this is how you make that conversion. Yeah, good idea. Others there is the. Well, there are. I'm not sure we are we're as successful in the past with wiki page conversions because we've still got a number of them that are sitting because it requires a level of expertise that most of these new contributors don't have. So I would say intentionally exclude wiki page conversion from October fest because it's not been successful in the past. I don't have too much knowledge required. What what when I say wiki page conversion what I mean is documentation wiki pages so these were pages that talked about core Jenkins concepts or important things that you would do or not do and many of them are by now, five or six years old and so out of date and so filled with errors that person attempting to convert them will bring the errors forward and not realize it. And then it's up to the reviewers all of a sudden the reviewers are now doing all the work of doing the port. It's it's not enough of a help for us whereas plug in documentation conversion is a much narrower task. And as a narrower task it's more likely to be successful. Yeah. Mark, I know that I had taken over for the she code Africa the screenshot updates in a lot of areas to be will be able to finish like the inclusive naming updates and that sort of stuff I know. I've still found a couple areas where like the screenshots for those could be updated but I was talking to Dan about some other items recently that maybe we can discuss further and add to the list of what should be changed. Yeah, the problem for me with inclusive naming updates is it needs, it needs a level of technical discretion that many of these October fest contributors don't have there if we tell them, you can convert everything except Java symbols. They will still inadvertently convert Java symbols we had that with the contributors on people. They were saying oh look there's here's this Java source code I need to convert the word master to controller. And what that did was break the API. Right. And so they, it was actually a net negative there so I'd much rather we focus on on just the, at least right now my mental model is just the wiki to mark down conversion for plugins is already there there are still 800 plugins that need conversion. There's no lack of work to be done there. And, and some of those plugins that need conversion have as many as 10 or 20,000 installations. So it's not that they are unpopular plugins either they are. You get to 800 and I think you've still got over 1000 installations on most of those plugins. Gotcha. Yeah, it sounds like a good candidate to me. Good. Any others can't think of anything right now Mark, but I'm sure something will come up as we continue working on this stuff. Yeah. Awesome. I think that covers everything for today. We'll go ahead and stop the recording and it will be available.