 Wonderful. Thank you so much Rachel for shepherding us through this and welcome everyone and thank you so much for joining us this afternoon for growing open education programs through a social justice lens. I know that you'll will all learn a lot here today from these amazing folks. So without further ado I want to go ahead and do introductions and then we'll get into the panel. So I'm in a daily the director of the Community College Consortium for we are at open education global, and I am your moderator today. We have four amazing open education leaders here. They're not only leaders on their campus and they all are have unique roles from each other, but they're also leaders within the open education community more broadly. So you're going to learn a lot today, and I will as well. All right, we will start with with Beatrice. Hi, I'm Beatrice Canales. I am a Senator college academic staff and open advocate slash practitioner in San Antonio, Texas. I am committed to being a unicorn in this field. And Senator college is one of the five colleges in the animal community college district. Thank you so much Beatrice. All right, Olivia. Good afternoon. My name is Olivia Chang. I'm professor at Manchester Community College here in Manchester Connecticut in one of my classrooms right now. I teach art history. And I'm also the project director of an NIH funded grant called not sure grandfather's art history. It's a collaboration with smart history. Some of you may know smart history is a platform of the Khan Academy. And so I have the honor of working with 23 different authors from across the country actually globally on that project so looking forward to sharing that with with all of you. Thanks so much. Thank you Olivia. Kate, you're up next. Hi everybody. My name is Kate Cameron. I am the digital services librarian at Kirkwood Community College which is our main campuses in Cedar Rapids Iowa. I've been supporting faculty adoption of we are here for about 10 years when I first took the CCC or training. Just to give you a little background Kirkwood has around 17,000 students and we're the second largest community college in Iowa. And as far as we are adoptions just to give you a brief kind of overview of where we are. We had basically pretty good supportive we are it's been kind of the tortoise rather than the hair I guess with kind of incremental adoptions over time, which is great they kind of build on each other. And I was really surprised to learn when there was a statewide we are survey that Kirkwood actually had the most we are adoptions of any college in Iowa. So that was, that was pretty awesome. And I'm looking forward to talking with everybody here today. Thanks Kate not I'm not surprised I've known Kate for a decade to I'm not surprised they're number one in Iowa. All right, last but certainly not least Joyce you may. Hey, everyone. My name is Joyce you mate. I'm the director of online education at College of the canyons we're located in Southern California, just north of Los Angeles. And at our college in our district. All of our work sort of lives under the online education department so I oversee a small team of current and former students who work with our instructors to help them. And also create we are on our campus. And in addition to to that work. I'm grateful to serve on the Executive Council of CCC we are and have had a whole lot of fun on another project open for anti racism project which I'll speak more about in this session but I'm really excited about that project because it's exploring how open education can be leveraged to make our teaching and learning anti racist so really thrilled to be here with all of you and with this incredible panel. Thank you joy and I have the pleasure of working with joy on a number of projects. I have a few of you who aren't familiar with the Community College Consortium for our community practice, supporting and encouraging colleges and collaborative development of open educational programs to ensure equitable and inclusive access and success. Really goals from 15 years ago when we were founded. It looks a little different these days you know things have changed in the last 15 years but we have always been all about equitable and inclusive access. And we are thrilled to have members across the country and in Canada as well. I just briefly, since this is a session on social justice I did want to mention that CCC OER has a strategic plan pillar number one which is on equitable learning speaks directly to social justice. I'm not going to read this to you but it's about including diverse learners and educators who've been underrepresented and more broadly bringing voices into the classroom into the educational materials of those who've been underrepresented and traditionally marginalized. So, just a little bit about some of the activities that we plan we have monthly webinars we have a group of folks on our exec council that do the planning around that based on surveys with our membership. And those webinars are open to all. If you join our community email there's a link there at the top of the page CCC OER or community dash email. You can join our email list and you'll get a notification of those events that are coming up and we welcome we welcome all interested educators. There's case studies available on our website as well not only from colleges who are engaged in OER work but also from students, and we also welcome guest blogs. We also have an equity book club that has a run for two summers in a row run by our equity committee. Joy mentioned the open for anti racism program. We're happy to co lead that with College of the canyons in the California Community College system. We also have a project called regional leaders for open education, which is run by Dr Karen Cangelo see and she just had a presentation she and her team earlier today. So today's topic. Community colleges were the hardest hit sector of public higher education during the pandemic. And the pandemic really exposed existing but we're seeing inequities and healthcare housing and schooling. And we know students lives were very disrupted but many colleges made efforts to keep their students engaged and enrolled at school and. Often one of the tools we are an open pedagogy to keep their students progressing on their academic plans. So it's so exciting to have panelists here from across the country as you know we've got, we've got California we've got Connecticut we've got Texas and we've got Iowa, and each and each of these panelists have unique roles that they play so I think there's something for everyone here. So we're hoping that what you'll learn you might be able to apply at your college depending on what your role is and you'll have an opportunity also to ask questions of these panelists. At the end but in the meanwhile please do post comments or questions in the chat as we go along. We'd love to answer those either if we can in the chat or at the end. Alright, so here are the panel questions that we're going to, we're going to start out with before we open it up to the audience. So our first one is tell us a little bit about the open education at your college, and also your own, but how did that pan, how did the pandemic change your open education focus. So a little bit about, you know, the journey and then the changes over the last couple of years. And then our second question is how does your campus center students and faculty from traditionally marginalized communities through your open education programs. And finally, what supports do you need to sustain and grow the open education programs focus on social justice. I am going to stop sharing now if that is okay with folks and so that you can see our panelists a little bit up closer. And so I'm going to start first with Beatrice and so tell us a little bit about your journey, both yours and at your college Beatrice and how did the pandemic change that. So, starting with the fall of 2020. I wanted to learn more about we are I saw that there was information at our college. And I, even though I went through masters of library science in 2019. I didn't really hear from my program about open education was very little. I took the Texas learns, oh, we are through digit tax. And I know it's growing and it's also, I think Oklahoma has a version of it and, and I discovered a whole field that I knew very little of and I attended my first open education conference which I never heard of. And it was online and I received a scholarship, and that led me to feel that I needed more education and experiences. So, you know, I've received my background is now, you know, the creative comments licensing. Yay, creative comments, which led me to feeling that I needed more. And I had a lot of experience and that led me to spark the open education leadership program. But, but prior to the pandemic, Senator colleges, we are work was entrusted by a task force of faculty librarians and college administration. The first Community College in Texas to win the prestigious 2021 Aspen Prize, our group knew that we needed to grow more education programs with a social justice lens. This past spring, the task force included a student representative and graduating student Victoria Villos from SGA. This practice to include student voices that share as shared governance. And colleague Lori Coleman said that our team should transition from open education awareness to open education action. Victor. So, Victoria's goals included co creating a campus white survey, because she felt that students from SAC with the data showing that the majority are female Hispanics, attending SAC part time, had enough intersectionalities that needed to be fully representative through survey gathering. My experiences outside of SAC and inside of SAC with students is the heart of social justice. I feel like I ended here but that's, that's how I understood that the question. Yeah, that's, that's wonderful to hear. And it's, it sounds like over the last few years as San Antonio has been also going through the pandemic along with all of the rest of us that students have gotten more involved. And they're gathering information now, which I think can be very valuable in terms of sharing that with your administrators, when they hear directly from the students. That's wonderful to hear. All right. And thank you for that question, Elena. I'm going to have to ask Beatrice to see if she can look that link up for you. I'll screw up the screen if I do that. And next up, Olivia, and would you like me to ask the question again or you all you're okay. Thanks, Una. Yeah, I've done some some of the key points there. Just quick question. Any, any people here who teach art history or her use art, often in their classes, humanities history. Okay, cool. So, personally, so I always taught art history I've been very lucky that I got my professional start in the community college system right at a grad school and it's really been, you know, it really speaks to I think, what I love about teaching is introducing students, you know, to really this whole world of history. And so it's been about 1011 years now. And in that journey, you know, I started fresh out of grad school told okay you got to teach the survey courses right so when you're in grad school you get very specific and you know your diet drilling down to these really nitty gritty details and then you're able to teach the survey class which is really everything from pre history to, you know, the modern period and so I, my first thing I did was turn to a textbook right the textbook I had been taught with in undergrad. And that worked for a while, and then I just got to the point where I couldn't teach that way anymore. One, my students had expressed that textbook textbooks were unaffordable for them. And our students are housing insecure food insecure so to buy an art history textbook, or even to rent one was just not feasible and and the lack of representation was also a key issue why I moved away from using a text. So actually I applied for a sabbatical one semester sabbatical and my college supported it which was great and it gave me that time and that space to explore what might be out there in terms of OER is for art history, and to really evaluate the best ones, and really to create one. So that was sort of beginning of the journey and that actually coincided with the pandemic. So all this kind of came to a head. And I, I so I did my research and I found that smart history was a great resource. It's designed for early college students for second year students introductory learners. It had videos it had short articles it had webinars it had just a whole variety of media. And so my idea started to generate of collective or creating a collection of essays that were authored by BIPOC scholars or scholars who identify as BIPOC. So that not only were we making this material accessible. But also diversifying the voices that were being included in the interpretation of objects and the narratives and the histories and the objects themselves right art history is a very traditionally Eurocentric field of study. And part of it it's just been a very organic process. One of the things I realized too is that I wanted equitable pay to be a part of this project I didn't want to ask scholars to just contribute their time and energy and expertise for free. I didn't want this to be a voluntary thing and I feel like also that's something that, you know, communities of color have been asked to do, you know, without being properly compensated so I applied for an NIH grant that was was a specifically community college fund. And so again my college was really supportive of that which I'm very grateful for. And so we're able to compensate our authors for their essays to this project. And in terms of the pandemic. Um, you know, I think it's, I think it's just exacerbated or shown us even to a greater degree, you know how access is so important, you know, to my students, you know they do their work on their phone, right so they don't necessarily have their own laptops their own computers so you, you need to be just mindful of that and the types of materials you choose right are they compatible with devices, you know that or computers let's say. And so I can't say that the pandemic sort of changed anything I was doing but I think it just like really threw it into a starker contrast of like how how pressing it is to keep doing the work that we're doing and that the whole culture of higher education is changed and is changing, and that you know the maybe how we were taught when we were in college is not is is perhaps not the best way to go forward so I think those are just sort of my final thoughts on things. And thanks Beatrice for your background as well so I'll pass it off back to you. Oh no you're muted. I'm sorry, the lawn blower came in the middle of that I didn't want everyone to hear that. So Kate. Tell us a little bit about your journey and how the pandemic change things at Kirkwood. Sure. So I guess I kind of jumped ahead in my introduction I talked a little bit about history of we are Kirkwood. As far as the pandemic. I really, I was very curious right away because I was hearing. We were fielding a lot of questions that first spring 2020 semester. Once everyone was home in March. I had lots of questions about like fair use and copying and scanning things and uploading them to the LMS and all those kinds of questions. And of course I took the opportunity to say you know there are these, you know, things called we are and there's open licensing and you know took that opportunity to to. You know, more faculty know that that was an option. And that they didn't have to, I still faculty, you know, it's so much easier if you just find the open license stuff. We don't even have to look at this, you know, fair use. Until then I noticed, yeah, almost right as soon as the semester was over in spring over that summer and into the fall. I just got so many people who wanted to learn about we are and I did a just in our course management system I did a little, you know, professional development course for faculty and yeah, by far the most participation there of any time I've done it that summer of 2020. And we did see, you know, more, more adoptions, you know, more questions. It always seems to just kind of be the slow and steady here but it definitely, you know, see that pattern of once one faculty and one department adopts, then I get, you know, over the next semesters, you know, more faculty from that same department are teaching that same course also get interested and kind of see, you know, that modeling of, you know, I, you can really do it and this is what it might look like and, you know, seeing faculty to and talking to them about how they're always, you know, they're constantly kind of updating materials and kind of adding things and leaving other things out. And again, just how how much we are, you know, fit so nicely into that kind of what they're already doing. And yeah, as far as pandemic change I think I just against it was sort of like it all of a sudden made sense for a lot of faculty like oh I can see now why, why, you know, why, why we are really kind of clicked for them, and they could see their students struggling I mean we had so many students that we were checking out lots of laptops, but also had to hurry up and try to find funding for hotspots just so so many students I see a brain on it yes. That did not that depended on being able to come to campus to get their internet access so that was a big push as well that what gosh that was probably the biggest, you know, difference that 2020 was just okay we have these materials that are open students can do what they need to with them they can print them download them, whatever they need to do. So yeah, that's kind of, that's kind of how it went for us. I've certainly you know in doing surveys across our membership we have heard that to that interest has grown. 2020 was a little crazy but after that I think it really sunk in that it was a digital era for those who had been kind of waiting to go digital. They unfortunately are fortunately depending on your perspective we're forced to go digital neighbors like Oh, oh I guess like I can do this. And joy is going to tell us about that because she's the online education director and she took her faculty through that. Yes. Well yeah I'm happy to share a little bit about kind of where our college was prior to the pandemic and what has shifted as a result of the pandemic. I've got a preface that I'm very fortunate I've been at College of the canyons for a little over six years now. And, you know, prior to my arriving at the college, we, and this is thanks to the leadership of my Dean James Glopper-Groes-Glag. Really, our campus had already pretty well established OER in terms of understanding first of all what OER even is, and embracing it as a, you know, a viable tool and resource to use for teaching and learning. But of course, you know, it was entirely optional for instructors to choose to use but our model on our campus prior to the pandemic. We spent a lot of time and really probably in the last five or six years spent a lot of time developing a team of current and former College of the canyons students to be that support system for instructors. Our focus on our campus was really like OER creation. We didn't place as much emphasis on adoption but really on creation. So the idea was that our team of current and former students could assist and support our faculty with, you know, all things OER that maybe was a bit outside of their wheelhouse. So we really wanted to be able to leave it to our instructors to be the content experts and then have a team that could offer the support like searching, formatting, you know, accessibility. And, you know, as Olivia said that this, it requires a lot of work that also requires and should be honored with compensation. In addition to compensating our instructors, we also just wanted to try to take as much of a load off of them by really trying to provide as much wraparound support with OER and really kind of like open textbook creation. And, you know, also our focus kind of pre-pandemic was really a big focus on cost saving. So a lot of the, as we would try to engage with faculty and encourage them to consider adopting OER, the pitch was always very much focused on cost and saving students, you know, reducing textbook costs. So I would say after the pandemic and as we were moving through and having to adjust through the pandemic. Obviously, all of us were teaching and learning online or some version of that and that in and of itself was a huge challenge and a huge lift, you know, providing that professional development support for our instructors so that they felt prepared and able to deliver quality instruction. And that also caused us as a campus and, you know, me as a leader on my campus overseeing OER to really consider what is it that, how can OER actually support our students and how can this be a resource for our instructors who are making this incredible shift online through the pandemic. So we kind of shifted our focus as it related to OER to really encourage more adoption. So as to lighten the load for our instructors, they were already, you know, making this huge shift to online. And so we didn't want to ask one more thing of them like, oh yes and write a textbook while you're at it, even though that had been our model and we still maintained our team. But that's a lot to ask when, you know, I know all of you were going through such an incredible transition. So we really shifted our focus towards adoption, but also recognizing some of the maybe existing limitations of OER but the opportunities that OER created to build and create virtually responsive materials. So it was an opportunity for us to sort of shift our pitch to our instructors about this is an opportunity for us to work in partnership to, you know, adopt and adapt existing materials but also you can contribute to our expertise while elevating the contributions of others in the field, you know, BIPOC contributors to the field, which was really important. So, you know, that shift towards adoption also was a shift towards us, not only making the pitch about cost but making the pitch about how this is an opportunity for our students to see themselves in their learning. This is an opportunity for our students to also have, you know, provide better access to the learning materials. But also in my role on campus, I am an administrator so you know we're all kind of dealing with the challenges of declines in enrollment and it enabled us to help make the pitch for OER being utilized or leveraged as an enrollment management strategy. So we look very heavily to and we work in close partnership with our institutional research team on campus because data. Data will make the case when we're trying to find funding, you know, and, you know, again back to Olivia saying, you know, we have to be able to pay our instructors for this incredible work that they're putting in. So to make the case, you know, turning to data has been something that we have really relied heavily on because the data supports that OER helps our students. So we look at everything from success in retention rates, which locally on our campus, we have the local data to show that students are succeeding at a higher rate in courses that are using OER. We have the data from our institutional research team to show that we're retaining students and OER classes. And, you know, in terms of enrollments, you know, we have, we look at fill rates, so those are the rate at which courses reach full capacity, and we have the data over time to show that, you know, courses that are scheduled that appear as OER or zero costs, but cost in the schedule of classes, those fill and those outpace the fill rates of classes that don't use OER. So, you know, it's kind of trying to meet the needs, like show how OER can meet the needs of our campus community. And being able to kind of shift the conversation based on who you're talking to or who you're maybe reaching out to for resources. So building those connections with instructors and appealing to them in a way that's meaningful to them in terms of, you know, the opportunity to include students and help your students succeed, but also being able to, you know, have a strong argument or a strong case, maybe when, you know, trying to convince other administrators, like, yes, we need to keep funding these projects. So the pandemic has very much shifted our focus, but I would say sort of the silver lining out of it is I think we've shifted in a positive way that is proving to be more helpful for our students. Thank you, Joy. It is important. I want to circle back around to Beatrice because I don't think she shared her very special project that she led at through her Spark leadership program and she's implementing on her campus. Yes. So, in my Spark Open Education Leadership Fellowship, I focused on international and or dual citizenship students. There are also unicorns on our campus and I felt that they would have a unique point of view on how to create content with a bilingual and or by cultural lens. I paired a works, for instance, I paired a work study student Allison with a faculty member that adopted the students renewable assignment resource because through their collaboration, they produced a wonderful resource that will increase more diverse student voices every semester. Allison had a dual citizenship in Mexico in the US, but she had to pay out of pocket for her classes. So back to compensation. I wanted to be able to offer Allison a way for her to find meaning and have something for her to receive at the end of her work with us. So, not only did she add her openly licensed resource link to her resume and portfolio. She also received experiential credit through Alamo colleges, because through her reflection on San Antonio colleges marketable skills rubric and her own self reflection on the whole process. Also, Allison and I, we agreed that her OER work utilize many of the skills necessary marketable skills, necessary for her to receive this credit on a transcript. We agreed that she utilize her communication her critical thinking, social responsibility or global engagement and personal responsibility skills. The OER and marketable skills work that she did that Allison did. She was able to view her work, her lens to exist after she graduated. And do this work I wanted to make sure that open pedagogy is around on our campus. And this was something that I knew that if we would tap into our students to look at their open work as not only for what they can do at the college but for themselves for the global community. Then I, I wanted to make sure that she felt engaged and also was able to be compensated for her time. And so, together I think this was a great way for her to enhance her learning and it was a way for the faculty member to adopt a resource that that she had never heard of, which was a renewable assignment and she was able to adopt that and add to her curriculum and she said this will help her. The faculty member was able to look at her curriculum in a different way and and to add more meaning for students who would take her courses. Thank you Beatrice and that's a wonderful example of open pedagogy and service learning, intersecting along with aligning with, you know, learning outcomes for your college around marketable skills because that's all of us are trying to do that our colleges is to help students develop marketable skills so that they can go out in the workplace as they complete their degrees and really take all that forward so that's very encouraging. I'm doing a little check on the time. I have like, we have kind of like one question left and I'm going to give it as kind of an option if you want to answer it. And then we will move to audience to the audience participation I know we have at least one or two questions in there that have been that have been posted. So, all of you are focusing on social justice in some aspect at your college through the lens of open education we are open pedagogy open educational practices. What supports do you need to sustain and grow that work because you know, a number of you had mentioned when we did our little rehearsal that you'd used her funds. So you'd use some of the pandemic recovery funds to to to up your OER efforts during the pandemic but those of course will go away. If they haven't already. If you haven't already spent those and so what what do you need and I know that funding is always the top one but if you can be a little more nuanced about besides funding what other kind of supports do you need at your campus and I'm going to raise your hand or you can just speak up panelists, whichever whoever would like to go first. I'm happy to go for it. Well yes, as you mentioned, of course, you know, time energy and money we can never have enough of those things to support this effort. I think that'll be on the top of most of our lists for forever moving forward. But beyond beyond that. I would say, you know, some professional development training has proven very important and really essential, especially as we embrace approaching OER and open pedagogy with a particularly with a culturally responsive lens. And also offering our, our faculty that that professional development support, and then also sort of following the model that we develop locally on campus, ensuring that we're able to continue providing support to a team who can then offer the support to our instructors. So, you know, I would add that partnerships on campus are incredibly valuable to sustain the OER efforts or open efforts on your campus. And also to, to, to grow and enhance those efforts as they relate to ensuring that we're approaching this work equitably and to meet the needs of our students. One of the ways that we do that on on campus is partnering partnering with our academic senate and our associated student government. When you have buy in from from those groups that alone for us has been really instrumental and helpful. And, you know, I go back to what Kate mentioned like that helps us sort of open the door to have a conversation for maybe one instructor to consider adopting OER or even creating their own. And that opens the door even wider to maybe an entire department or a group of instructors who teach the same course, kind of embracing that resource, and then recognizing their opportunities to perhaps adopt or create even more. But also, you know, partnerships, a lot of, I would imagine a lot of your campuses are really engaged in, you know, equity work or, you know, whatever terminology that you're using on your campus and you know inclusion work. So partnering with those groups on campus can be really valuable because, you know, again, it's our approach is less about, you know, teaching to the textbook but rather open being a tool that can be leveraged for teaching and learning. So partnering with those groups on campus who are having these conversations so that we are or your open work doesn't just exist in a silo but rather is viewed as a tool and an opportunity in those equity conversations or in those enrollment strategy and management meetings. You know, folks on our campus might be a little bit tired of hearing me but trying to have a seat at the table by showing up and saying like hey, OER and open pedagogy is a tool for this thing you're trying to accomplish here on campus. So instead of it kind of living in its own little silo, you know, for me and for us on our campus really trying to leverage open as a tool to help our campus meet a variety of needs. That's so important. Thank you, Joy. Yeah, those partnerships are really key. And I think I saw Olivia first. So I'll go to Olivia. I just wanted to echo exactly what Joy was saying and just say that, you know, it can be an intimidating prospect I think to, you know, to shift away from a text or the way you've been teaching for so long and to embrace something new and maybe entirely digital. And I think that is really key is like building the sense of community, whether it's at your campus or across campuses within your discipline that I think it's also really important to like give instructors the sense of, you know, this allows them flexibility to learn, but they're also part of a larger conversation that you said, Joy, and that, you know, their support beyond just like here's, you know, here are these materials like go forth with them, you know, that you can as an instructor, you know, learn through this process and that it takes time to adjust and figure out what works best for you. And that, you know, you're not the only one making this transition and then maybe you can learn from others and their experience. So yeah, I think, you know, when we go into teach sometimes we are very much in like our own little silos and so I think it's really valuable to join a community if there's not one established already, or just, you know, know that, yeah, there are others, you know, out there and to join a community if you can, or to see if you can build one of people, you know, experiencing the same thing. Beatrice, go ahead, sir. Just a quick. I put down data mining for how faculty utilize open pedagogy, because the Alamo colleges we have a OER attribute for all of our OER and inclusive access attributes. And so we can easily find, you know, which courses are utilizing OER, but we're not capturing those faculty that uses open pedagogy, but do not have a full course. Revolving around it. So I believe that, you know, going forward, you know, that data that includes faculty who utilizes some part of open in their classrooms should also be celebrated. At that sector, we're going to have a student vote on the best OER that is submitted by faculty. So we have faculty who are submitted the best OER sites and students are voting on what they consider as the best of all the faculty. So it's really SAC trying to find ways to find the faculty who are using open pedagogy, but are not putting down on that attribute that they're an OER course. And it's students using their right to vote and find the best, how they see is the best resource for their own learning and education at SAC. Wonderful. I mean, that that'll help create awareness, I think, around OER, having the students vote. I mean, both ways, right? Faculty will be competing a little bit and students will be voting. So wonderful idea. Well, I think at this point, Kate, would you, did you, you're okay? Okay. So I think at this point, we will go to questions from the audience. We did have one way back, I think, maybe Rachel, Rachel might have caught some that I didn't as well. We had one way back about using your phone. So rather having developed making sure that OER is compatible with students' phones since we know that for the majority of students these days, the phone is the first thing that they use. And I don't know if one of our panelists would like to speak to that. Beatrice, did you want to speak to the phone? Or are you just, no worries, you just still have your hand up. Would somebody like to speak to that one? I don't really, I haven't run into it much, the question. We recently subscribed to Pressbooks. And that's, I think, one of the benefits of, you know, having a platform that has all those, I mean, there's so many file types that you can convert to, you know, with one, with just the one editing platform. You don't have to press, you know, Pressbooks in particular, but just as an example of that flexibility. But yeah, I don't have a lot of experience with that. I know that that's something very desirable. So thank you for whoever posted that. I don't know, Joy, if you have any experience with that. I mean, with your OER team, I know you test for accessibility. I don't know if you test on the phone at this point to make sure that is that. Yeah, we don't, I mean, we just format our text for accessibility more broadly. So I haven't actually, it's a great question, but it hasn't really come across sort of my desk, if you will. It hasn't been something that instructors have expressed is a challenge. I think, you know, just more broadly the access in general is a challenge for students. I think Olivia mentioned, you know, many students just not having access to even a laptop or desktop in the first place. But on the whole, you know, we've just seen that when we're designing and part of that is the course design, you know, online course design for the mobile experience so also shifting in emphasis towards that but as it relates to OER we haven't heard a lot of feedback and positive or negative as it relates to a mobile experience. But I would say in that case, the access in and of itself has has been a significant help for students. So, yeah, none of our survey data has has from students has come back to say that it's been problematic. Thank you, thank you for sharing that we had a question from Phoebe, which we might want to speak to so regarding professional development. Can you speak more about your approaches. I heard in recent session about folks moving forward toward one on one support versus creating a canvas course for example. So this is probably to joy and Kate who do a lot of professional development in their capacity and I'm sorry Beatrice and Olivia if you do as well please please feel free to address that question. It looks like Joy put a really good response there in the chat. Yeah, I missed it. I'll just jump in was kind of my approach is just I sort of approach it with what I learned about being a librarian which is, you have to be available when somebody has the question has the need. You have to talk about yourself all the time. You know if there's a professional development opportunity, you know offer something, even if it's not the best venue for maybe getting people started it gets the information out there and lets people kind of see oh, I'm not the only one interested and maybe I can work with my colleague over here and kind of building that. Great luck with online workshops I mentioned I offered one in 2020 that went pretty well. But people tend to need that one on one help. And then the other aspect of that is just knowing the other people in your college who can provide support. For example, sometimes the person finds faculty finds the OER but they really have some technical issues, or they're trying to integrate it with their assignments I say you know why don't you talk to Mike. He's an instructional designer he's going to be all over that you know so kind of being able to, you know work together in that way and pass the ball around without worrying you're dumping something here. Yeah, instructional designers rock we didn't we didn't get today but yeah on the panel that they definitely do. Wonderful. Yes, and I joys joys comments that were were quite appropriate that. And I think a combination with case is that you need to be there to answer the question but for some faculty they really do want to work asynchronously and it's certainly not all. You to answer a couple questions live but then they can go off and work asynchronously so I definitely think you've got to look at God forbid I should say learning styles of your faculty, you know and offer a variety. Were there any other questions we missed. But I missed. I knew we're at we got two minutes to go right Rachel. Yes, I did see one question in the chat about OER materials being provided and for profit kind of platforms. So I don't know if you would like to address that or not but I did see that mentioned in the chat. Yeah, yeah I did see that one too I mean open licensing that's, that's a possibility so stewardship is a really important consideration for the open ed community. I mentioned the care framework and thank you to divesta, our CCC OER exact Council President, who works at is me she posted the care framework, which talks about that. I don't know if anyone else has something more that they can add on that. I think it is unfortunate that some of the people who contributed to the Lumen learning courses didn't expect them to turn up there on course hero. It was quite a discussion on our email list about that. Six months ago, I think. Well, I want to thank these panelists. You know once again I learned more today from them and I thank our audience for joining us. I think we can hang around a little bit after Rachel turns off the recorder. If you've got some individual questions and I can stay here for another 10 minutes I'm not sure if my panelists can. Some of them teach and have other responsibilities. Thank you again.