 Welcome everyone to the hyper ledger capital market special interest group mortgage subgroup update that I've done this quite a while now but that's always a mouthful. I can hear you folks now. Hey James. Hello Marvin. Thank you for the invitation. No problem. Thank you for joining and looking forward to collaborating with you. I think this is a real opportune time we're going over that survey that I referenced, and we'll actually send out a link to that survey, where the number one blockchain application for people in the mortgage industry was a digital wallet so a great time to be speaking to you. I don't know if I got the opportunity to update you but the survey that you're going to go over I've also attached it to the wiki site as well. Excellent, excellent. Now is that a wallet for the borrower, because organizations can have wallets to. Yeah, it is a wallet for the borrower and I think that's a really valid point that organizations can have wallets to. I don't think that's something that we've really looked at within the mortgage industry but I think they're definite applications to it. Okay. Okay, so I show 901 I know people tend to roll in as we get going so why don't we just go ahead and get started. Hello everyone and welcome to the June capital markets mortgage subgroup meeting. Before we get started I like to express our appreciation to the capital markets special industry group and the hyper ledger foundation for their ongoing support and making this group possible. As always, please note that this meeting is being recorded and it's under the umbrella of the hyper ledger foundation. So we asked that everyone abide by the antitrust policy which we're sharing on the screen now, and the code of conduct. The antitrust policy states that we avoid discussions of company specific products and prior pricing. We don't make negative remarks about other companies or products, and the code of conduct means that we treat each other with respect, never discriminate and communicate constructively. We fully support hyper ledgers policy of openness, equity and inclusion, and for new participants. We welcome you and if you'd like to introduce yourself on the chat please do so. And if there are any areas of interest you would like to discuss. Please let us know through the chat as well. So welcome everyone. Here's our agenda for today we've already gone through the welcome and meeting and housekeeping. I have a brief PSA on hyper ledger community information will go through the state of the blockchain in the global mortgage industry James Hendrick will walk us through that will do a deep dive on the Fannie Mae survey, how will blockchain shape mortgage lending, and then we'll talk about future agenda topics. We always cover the slide in each meeting, and this is to reinforce that we're all on the same blockchain path, but we may be at different points along that path. This approach is intended to make sure that we help everyone on their blockchain journey, demonstrate the feasibility of blockchain technology through mortgage industry use cases and define potential implementation path for the mortgage industry. Okay, just a brief PSA in the capital market sake, a proposal was submitted to change the name from capital market special industry group. I think people are leaning towards the financial services name. So as things get more finalized will communicate this information as it becomes available. But I just wanted to let people know the next three slides I always mentioned are for those that are new to the group or would like more information. This slide provides links to different resources for the hyper ledger excuse me for the Linux Foundation, the hyper ledger foundation, the capital markets special interest group which we fall under the mortgage subgroup here second from the bottom, and our hyper ledger wiki. The mortgage subgroup link contains notes for our group recordings from previous sessions and curated articles about blockchain in the mortgage industry. So these are great resources and will reference several of these during the course of our presentation. If you want to access these resources, you will need a Linux foundation ID or LF ID. So this slide walk you through how to get that. For those of you that are new to blockchain here are some links to free blockchain training that's offered by the hyper ledger foundation. I've gone through these and these are fantastic resources so highly recommend. I'll turn it over to James Hendrick, who will walk us through the state of the blockchain in the global mortgage industry. Excellent thank you Marvin welcome everybody whether you're joining live or you're joining us to the recorded video afterwards. Moving on to the first slide. This is one that we've actually prevented or provided previously to give kind of an overall you know interactions of what's going on in the mortgage industry and where can you find some of those blockchain highlights. So a lot of these topics we've actually talked about previously so in the blockchain mortgage we've talked about leading and loan snap and some of the things that they're doing liquid mortgage figure they're constantly coming up in the news relevant to the blockchain in the mortgage industry on some of the topics that we're going to talk about today over in the blockchain realtor section. Some things that are actually going on out of Australia in the blockchain county recorder. What's going on in Reno County Illinois, but we just wanted to give this update it's been a couple months since we've actually shown this slide and as we're gathering more information and identifying more and more companies. We'll continue to update this and show this but it really kind of shows those interactions and the number of organizations and companies whether they're GSEs, whether they're individual companies that are actively starting to get involved in blockchain and Web three technologies. Moving into the global arena. Oh yeah angel go right ahead. Hi everybody, this is Angel all bond I just wanted to comment a little bit on this slide because if you were to rewind to when we started to put this thing together. Probably about this time last year, there was probably one or two pins on the map. So, in just a short period of time, you know we have activity in almost every sector, or every part of the value chain for mortgage. Not just on a global scale but in the US as well. And that is definitely exciting right so the industry is watching the industry is investing. There's different levels of maturity in terms of the blockchain capabilities that are being offered. But one of the things that we're going to be doing and we're actively working on this right now so if you are listening and you are a blockchain service provider. Feel free to reach out, but we are going to be taking this to the next level by providing an analysis of what are the turnkey blockchain enabled solutions that are available in the marketplace today. So Marvin talked a little bit about the blockchain journey, everybody's on the journey, everybody's in a different point in that journey, but we do know that some have already gone to market. So, what does that mean, what is their go to market strategy, is it a turnkey, is it a pilot approach, is it what type of integrations are going to be required. What does that look like. And so we're going to be inviting some of these players that are in the market today, advertising and and talking to clients and onboarding them to tell us a little bit about what they could share in terms of their blockchain journey. But most importantly, think of this kind of like a consumer reports type approach right so we're going to talk a little bit about this later in the in the meeting here but you know there's thousands of financial institutions out there. The awareness is growing the it's going to be coming to be top of mind. And so what are the blockchain solutions that the industry can start taking advantage of today. And so we're really excited to make that announcement and if anybody has any feedback on this particular slide. All this information is available in the wiki like James said so back to you James. Yeah, and actually Paul I noticed you just dropped a comment into the chat about redwood trust did you want to comment on that. Yes, I mean it's not bonds per se in the in the registered securities sense of bonds, but they have just done a tokenized sale they've done they've done the first mortgage based tokenized sale, as opposed to figure which has done consumer debt. It has been a more. The whole actually calling it bonds, I would say I probably wouldn't call it bonds I would call it, you know, tokenized or fractionalized sales. Instead of bonds on this on this slide, because that that's what you're not going to see is you're not going to see. Well, maybe you will it but but seeing blockchain applied to bonds instead blockchain will be applied to something that's going to replace bonds tokenized sales. So that's great information thanks for sharing that. I was I was just I was just one with them yesterday so that's that's. Excellent we love and I'm meeting and I'm meeting over at figure next week so there you go. Hey. Yeah, keep us posted then as you move along we'd love to hear some updates next month as well. Absolutely. I just wanted to put that in there it's a it's a it's a half pin how about that. Marvin if we can go ahead and move on to the global slide. So you know here's an update of that global timeline again these are topics that we've been talking about in each one of our monthly meetings you can find the information for each one of these actually on the wiki site. You know the two new ones actually we're going to talk about today are coming out of Australia. It was funny I kind of noticed over the last couple months that we have pretty much covered blockchain activity from the global perspective out of every continent on the planet now except for Australia and Antarctica so I wanted to make sure we gave our Aussie friends an opportunity to show what they're doing, and I promise you if anybody ever starts doing blockchain in the mortgage industry in Antarctica, I'll be bringing you those articles as well. Marvin let's go ahead and move into the next slide. Let's start out with coming out of Australia, Melbourne based Matthias group. They develop in new technologies web three blockchain systemized automation. Looking at technologies that could increase the efficiencies in the mortgage process. Their company actually matches up businesses with lending technologies across commercial mortgages, vehicle financing, government grants just to name a few. And I believe that the landscape is going to significantly alter over the next 12 months and they're heavily urging brokers to increase their understanding of these new technologies. Among many in the financial industry who they are among many in the financial industry who are predicting a rise in investments in blockchain technology and leveraging web three applications in the near future. I'll give you guys some context in Australia, mortgage, mortgage brokers are required to get lawyers involved from both the buyers and the seller side, along with valuations and quantity surveyor reports. Then they work with the funders who actually underwrite the deal. When all sides are in agreement and that the information is accurate that's when it officially becomes locked into the blockchain and the funds are released. Matthias group is exploring how blockchain technology will be positioned for debt and transactions in the real estate industry in the future, and how blockchain transactions could look through tokenization, debt and transactions and digital debt offerings with the utilization of smart contracts so a great article to see what they're doing. Also coming out of Western Australia, the real estate Institute of Western Australia or REI WA. Compulsory professional development blockchain blockchain training to the Western Australia real estate professionals so similar to continuing education that we have here in the US CBD training is designed to increase the knowledge skills and professionalism of those working in the real estate industry, along with those that are in the business of brokering. Versus give students an overview of how the application of blockchain technology can assist property management buyers sellers and tenants. They kicked off this program at the beginning of the year and to date they've already had 210 real estate professionals that have gone through the training, and an additional 255 sales representatives that have attended blockchain tokenization training as well. The WACO Cathart has been noted as saying it's essential that the real estate profession adapts and evolves with the changing technology environment to ensure that the agents can cater to the changing needs of the clients. The company is the company that's actually providing the training, and they're known to say that those who adapt first with the best have the best chance to capitalizing on the growing opportunity that blockchain provides. I found both of these articles to be very significant because it's very much in line with the message that we've been carrying amongst this organization here. You know, getting education as you saw from two slides ago, the number of companies here in the US and abroad that are actively getting involved with blockchain in the mortgage industry is rapidly increasing. While we as an industry are usually fairly slow adopters when it comes to new technology, blockchain is going to be a game changer in our industry, and if you're not taking the opportunity now to educate yourself to learn about these technologies to find out what direction companies are heading, you're going to find yourself set up kind of behind the ball over the next 12 to 24 months. We're a little bit closer to home. Let's take a look at the US industry. So again, our updated timelines all of the items in blue, you'll be able to find on our wiki site. These are articles that we have covered before. Some of the stuff that I'm going to talk about now it's going to be coming out of Reno, as well as some updates from the MBA secondary and capital markets conference that occurred in New York City. Next slide, Marvin. So the biggest little city in the world is starting to develop what they're calling the biggest little blockchain. So Reno soon is going to launch a pilot project this summer where the city's historic registry will be transition to a blockchain platform. The portal which I mentioned has been dubbed the biggest little blockchain. It's going to allow both the public and city staff to be able to access historic registry records. When launched this summer it'll allow the public to view every transaction recorded in the historic registry process, and the city leaders are touting that it's the first city run and resident focus blockchain platform in the US. I do want to mention Cook County, Illinois, they're also looking at putting property deed records on a blockchain as well. So we are starting to see this a little bit more we previously and a couple or a couple months ago in our sessions. We talked about Riverside County and what they're beginning to do with title on the blockchain. Prior to the pilot, and I'm sure those of you that have been in the industry a long time will appreciate us all of the historic register data for the city of Reno, literally has been kept in cardboard old banker boxes sitting in City Hall. So if you wanted to access any of the information you literally went to City Hall and had to sit through cardboard boxes. If the pilot is successful the program could be expanded to include records pertaining to maintenance work, permitting licensing a variety of different applications. And ultimately it's going to allow the public to be able to view every transaction recorded in the historic registry process. The mayor of Reno has called this a potential game changer for government transparency to the community. James, if I could interject on this Reno one was really interesting about this situation is that the Reno blockchain pilot was developed by a company called block apps. Block apps build Reno solution using their strato blockchain platform, and they did that pro bono. I've reached out to block apps to see if they'd like to speak at one of our future sessions. I have a meeting with one of those guys next week so stay tuned we may be able to get some more detailed information. Yeah, great update Marvin appreciate that. This is the very article or the very last article I wanted to cover today. So, back in May at the MBA secondary and capital markets conference and expo that took place in New York City. They had a panel discussion which includes Seth Appleton who's a president of Mismo. Laurie Laurie from liquid mortgage we've actually had Laurie on our previous presentations. David Frugal from digital assets at Western Alliance Bank Fred Matera from Redwood Trust, and Christopher McKintree who's the VP of technology at ice mortgage. This is a very similar group that also spoke at the MBA tech conference in Vegas back in April that we broadcasted from. Well, implement or some of the topics that they talked about as well implementing blockchain across the industry definitely does come with challenges. The increased security and the efficiency that it adds provides value to the origination and securitization process. Fred Matera from Redwood talked about blockchain, how it can be used to further lower the cost of funds for borrowers, very similar to the way mortgage backed securities did years ago. We previously discussed the Redwood Trust and liquid mortgage use of blockchain and you know Paul was referencing that a minute ago. They had a 40 431 million dollar transaction that occurred last year. They also knowledge some of the risks associated with block tech chain technology and how federal regulation for both blockchain and cryptocurrencies are just being realized. I think we've seen this a lot in particular in the last couple of weeks, as we've seen what's the volatility that's been going on in the cryptocurrency market. And you know we anticipate over the next year to both at state levels and federal levels you're going to start to see quite a bit more of this. I know in last month's presentation we talked a little bit about some of the state regulations that are starting to come to fruition and Washington Wyoming and other states that are out there. And the next slide Marvin. Hey James, I just wanted to add a couple of comments back to the Reno. So Info says a global provider of information technology services was working with Riverside County, and they announced that they've completed a pilot, we're going to provide some more information there. I'm going to send some information out to them as well to see if they can come here and share share share their learnings and their progress in terms of the commercial aspects of their blockchain solutions for counties. In the US is roughly, I don't know 313200 counties so this will be this will take some time for the counties to adopt blockchain as their solution but having two counties already working on it is definitely a good sign. Fantastic update Angel thanks for throwing that in. You know, lastly the slide that you're looking at here, this is the wiki page for the mortgage subgroup. In fact, I just dropped a quick link into the chat so feel free to click on that save it as a favorite. So these articles that we have discussed are available on the site here in addition through the research that we're curating between last year and this year I have well over 100 different articles that we found on various companies, government agencies and organizations that are getting actively involved in the mortgage blockchain industry so if you're looking for additional information, feel free to reach out. The reason we curate this information is specifically for your use things that you'll be able to talk about within your own organizations to find out hey what are companies similar to yours doing, or what are other things going on in the industry that will have an impact. So if you want to look at the mortgage industry subgroup wiki really quick, you know I do encourage everybody go in, you know, enroll the instructions that Marvin provided at the beginning of the presentation, walk you through how to enroll for this site. If you are enrolled as we add content as I update with new articles you'll automatically get notifications. In addition you'll also get notifications of this monthly meeting as it occurs along with a calendar invite, but taking a little bit of a look at the site on the left side, you can see in the mortgage subgroup meeting notes we do have pages for each one of these presentations so if you'd like to see any of the past videos, you can access them directly from here. In addition hyper ledger does have a YouTube channel where they post all of these videos as well. And then over on the right hand side you're going to have the industry research some of the articles that I've been talking about. As well as other items that we've curated along that list on the right hand side. In fact, the survey report that Marvin's about to walk us through. You'll actually when you scroll down on the right you'll find a link to that as well. Again, feel free to reach out with any questions ideas if you guys are finding articles out there that you think would be valuable to this group would love to have you send them along will add them into our inventory. And if you're looking for additional information feel free to reach out to any of us or to myself directly. I'd be happy to share with you what we've been curating. Marvin, I'll go ahead and pass it back over to you at this point. Thanks James. That's always great information, like getting the readers digest version of what's going on in the mortgage industry. So next we'd like to do a deep dive on Fannie Mae's Q4 2021 lender sentiment survey. How will blockchain shape mortgage lending. I'm going to spend the next couple slides going over the mechanics slash science of the survey, and then we'll do a deep dive into the findings and what they mean. Fannie Mae survey 228 mortgage senior executives from 205 lending institutions in November of 2021 with the following questions. How familiar are lenders with blockchain technology. What's their current status. How long do they think it will take for them to adopt this technology. Second set of questions what blockchain ideas are most appealing to lenders to improve or expand their mortgage business. This gets really interesting. How do lenders view decentralized finance defy to what extent do they think defy has a potential to disrupt incumbent financial institutions. And the last set of questions how likely do lenders believe that mortgage companies will start accepting cryptocurrency from consumers as a mortgage payment method over the next three years. I'm not going to spend a whole lot of time on this slide but it breaks down the sample population. As you can see that half the sample population consisted of smaller lending institutions, which Fannie defines as those institutions with less than 598 million loan in 2020 larger lenders those companies with over 2.25 billion in origination in 2020 made up 28% of the sample population. You can also see a detailed breakdown of that in this lower right hand box. So the insight into the constant composition of the sample population is going to be really relevant when we start to take a look at the results. Okay, key points from the survey. I won't go into all of them but I'll cover the most salient and then we can have a discussion about anything else, or people would like to provide their feedback on this I think this is really interesting and I think why we're all here. I think a lot of mortgage lenders have looked into or started using blockchain. However, the opposite side of that 68% have not looked into blockchain at all. So that gives us I think insight into the status of blockchain adoption. There's a significant group out there that's looking to adopt it, but a large population still hasn't even looked at it. What I think is really interesting though is the next set of questions or the next set of data. What the respondents said would be the most appealing applications for the four blockchain. Here's how they tabulated that information. Fannie may use what they call a maximum of different scaling that assigns a value to each of the ideas or different types of blockchain ideas with the score greater than 100 indicates a stronger than average preference, whereas those with less than 100 had a less than average preference. So you can see the top three here. The digital wallet created digital wallet containing all the bars information. This is something that James and I were discussing at the start of this call. This is the number one idea, or best application for blockchain. It had a max def score of 190. So this is the top of mind for people in the mortgage industry. Good. Marvin. I think we have James on here James shooting if I'm, if I pronounced that correct. Yeah, I'm on. Yes. James welcome welcome to the, to the meeting and we look forward to collaborating with you. Could you share a little bit about your initiative regarding wallets digital wallets. Yes. So actually a wallet can do a number of things it's often used just for credentials as like an agent that helps you store your credentials and share your credentials. And this is obviously very important, and that's what the hyper ledger Aries project has done, and done very effectively. We manage a Linux foundation project called the I am project. And we're, we're going a little bit deeper than just credentials we're going at the actual data type of data that a person would, would need, would share. And like in terms of mortgages, data elements like your, your marriage status, your flood zone, your, you know, the types of things that go into, you know, you know, giving a mortgage on a house obviously your, your resident location, your state residents, data like and then, but the technology we're using because maybe we're not all data scientists in this call here but if you if you have a company and you have data in a unique application, it is uniquely defined and that data is not going to match up very easily with other databases. And that is disparate data. The approach we take is using a technology called ontology and ontologies can can be universal because they don't model data they model reality. And, and my colleagues and I have recently gained approval for an ISO standard top level ontology, and we're now standardizing a mid level ontology, and below that will be the domain ontologies and mortgaging is, is a domain. So we could develop a standard ontology for mortgages. That means that all the key elements of data needed to, to, to handle a mortgage could could be standardized and then we transform data between unique applications and the common ontology. So what the, the concept, the big idea with the wallet is is that individuals should have a wallet with their own data and their own credentials, regardless of whether they have a mortgage or a house or ever plan to buy house. They're going to have it anyway for, for all kinds of purposes and if they already have a wallet. If they already have probably half the data they need already to apply for a mortgage, and then we can help the individuals collect that data. So, and then once they have everything in the wallet. Then it becomes very easily easy to then approach different mortgage lenders, because they already have standard data. And in fact, the getting a quote could be automated, and that that situation. That's the big idea. And we're already looking at a use case for insurance. So like if we're doing and we're going to be doing homeowners insurance so that's probably most of your data elements right there. So we'd like to collaborate with you guys and we do we are setting up a test bed environment and we could, we could run a simple test, or it's simple tech demo to actually show how this would work. And James, Paul just dropped a comment into the, the chat, if you don't mind taking a look, you know, he's curious about how the wallet will comply with GDPR and CCPA requirements. And by the way, I do think that the ontological approach is definitely the better way for the data science management of this but it doesn't address these kind of more industry specific legal requirements. Yeah, and a lot of those issues with we have not yet addressed either I mean we're not mortgage experts or financial experts. We are deep we are data integrators. You see the challenge where it's very it's having faith. First off having that data having those wallets be truly on chain runs this this conflict with legal requirements and by those those legal requirements right now are just California in Europe, but I promise you it will grow. Because consumers want the ability to go to be able to have their information forgotten. And they're in the chain never forgets. And personal data maybe should never be on a blockchain that's a lot of the advice I'm getting from people and there is an alternative called carry carry I could put that on the blockchain. It's, it's still uses like a hash hashtag. So it's immutable, but it's not on a public blockchain that you know personal a person's data, or even their public key. So the application never be on the a blockchain that's out there. So, yeah, many challenges. We're focused on the data integration part. Fantastic points because there's a lot of discussion that's occurring about what should be included on chain versus off chain. And I think as we all realize that this is just start the beginning of the discussion and collaboration. And I'm sure these types of issues will be brought up and we'll be able to have really good discussions around them. But I know we've had almost religious discussions around what's on chain versus off chain so definitely looking forward to the collaboration James. I've had those conversations specifically yes thank you. Yes, you and I. Okay, great so let's keep going through this. So, the next two items under the most appealing ideas for blockchain industry are somewhat related with a max def score of 145. I thought that having a blockchain based title registry for search and validation, and then another kind of related a digital property record. I think as James was mentioning earlier in this call, there are already pilots around the blockchain title registry. Reno Riverside County, as Angel mentioned, those are just the beginnings. And I think as those start to spread. This is really going to have a significant impact on on on blockchain within mortgage because this is one of the key pain points for our industry. I don't know if anyone wanted to add any comment on that. Cool, why don't we go ahead and go to what was below the line. So, as I mentioned, items that had a max def score of less than 100 were those which indicate at less than average preference. Surprisingly with the max def score of 93 a loan marketplace, a blockchain based marketplace for buying and selling loans, but we know that those are already being built so I think this is something that may just be due to the population. Next, max def score of 81 leveraging blockchain to track loan performance and receive information after loan stops performing so I don't know if this would have any type of mortgage servicing aspect to it. It probably does. And then the last item with the max def score of five so I don't think anyone really is thinking about doing this with that score develop infrastructure necessary to accept digital currencies as deposits payments or collateral. So let me pause there and see if anyone has any comments or questions about these blockchain ideas. Hey Marvin, I just want to comment that 20% of the industry has it, they're working on blockchain or their researching blockchain. They are doing a combination of both they really did differentiate between working on blockchain versus researching blockchain. Okay, yeah, so to put that a little bit in perspective right so for those of you guys are on this call and listening early adopters and any new technology represent two and a half percent. And so right now we're probably less than, you know, 10 basis points of the industry actually adopting being an early adopter so we are we are the early adopters in the room so congratulations to everybody. I love that can do attitude and and and the and how you embrace new technologies, but you know this is definitely going to take a lot of education. Clearly defining the business problems and the value add and always keeping top of mind the, the bar and the user experience right so just like in any project. That is what's really going to drive this. Absolutely. Thanks Angel that those were fantastic points. So the last set of questions had to do with what lenders thought about the potential for define crypto 44% of respondents believe that DeFi has a very high or moderately high potential to disrupt financial institutions. But the kicker said the last one 60% of respondents believe that it's not quite likely or even worse unlikely that mortgage companies will be accepting crypto as mortgage payments over the next three years. So I think that ties with the last bullet in the section of above that infrastructure necessary to accept crypto got a max def score of five so I think those two kind of reinforce each other. A lot of people don't think that there's going to be a lot of crypto activity within the mortgage industry. Okay, what does all of this mean what Fannie Ray may derive from this survey were two recommendations that fall into what I call motherhood and apple pie recommendations. These are very straightforward and general recommendations that one can't really argue with. First as we've been saying and as a lot of people been saying educate yourself about blockchain and its potential in the mortgage industry. The fact that the people on this call or on this call or participate in previous calls, you guys are already taking that step. Consider finding partners with aligned interest to help them successfully execute their blockchain use cases. Again, we're trying to do this as a team so you guys are are following this step as well. And I think that that last point as you start to deploy or as you start to do POCs as we covered in our last meeting that should also be emphasized partner partners for the POCs. Before we do what other people have done to lessen the learning curve, follow the POCs that we developed and then reach out to us if you need help getting those up and running in your own environment, it will make the path easier. Before I get into the next section, keep in mind that this survey was taken in Q4 of 2021. That was before the interest rate increases. I think this is a very different and more challenging environment. For example, as we were talking at the beginning of this call figure and home bridge announced that they've canceled their merger. There was a housing wire podcast with I highly recommend everyone listen to where the figure slash home bridge merger was originally cast as a test case for leveraging blockchain at scale in mortgage when it was announced in 2021. They should double productivity through figure, offer different products to one another and demonstrate the viability of blockchain. And I think these are all fantastic gold, but they canceled their merger. So, what does that mean. Also, the survey findings viewed through the prism of figure and home bridges announcement may cause some people to question the viability of blockchain in mortgage. I don't think I go at that far. I think given the marketplace mortgage companies are being more cautious and rightfully so. I think many of us on this call have been through a down cycle. You want to be more cautious it, but it's also an ideal time to invest in technologies that will save money, make processes more efficient and better position a company for the next one. Okay, I'm getting off my soapbox now I'll turn it over to you guys. What comments questions do you guys have. Yeah Marvin I you know think the point that you called out about this survey was completed in the fourth quarter of last year is something very much worth noting because, as you mentioned we've seen a significant change in the industry over these last several months with trade increases. And we're starting to see a little bit of a downturn in, you know, the number of applications that are being put in fact I recently read an article that talked about for the first time since 2019. It was approximately 20% of the offers on new homes out there. Homeowner sellers are actually having to lower their sales price for the first time in three years so we are starting to see an impact on the market, as well as you know as we talk about the crypto markets, you know which previously, you know people have separated the crypto market from the stock exchange and saying hey, it's not as volatile, it doesn't get impacted by trends in the stock market. We've actually seen a little bit different experience of that here in the spring and I think people are starting to rethink some of those approaches as well. Absolutely. And I think everyone probably knows that the Fed is meeting next week, and there's probably going to be another 50 basis points increase that hopefully that's already priced into the marketplace. If not, well, that then I think originations will take another step down. So, that is already priced in I've been checking with everyone from it. Okay, well that that's good to know. Okay. Yeah, it's mostly you know it gets it gets still hit an uptick but we're not going to see another 50 bits. Okay, you don't think there's going to be not going to be another 50 point. Yes, no, I think the Fed will do the 50 bits. I don't, I think that that you know you might, you might see a 10 10 bit uptick in mortgage rates. Okay. Okay, I think most I think most of that's already been factored in people, people got very very spoofed over the last few months. Also another interesting article by Larry Sumner, I think it was the former treasury head. He says that the Fed is not correctly anticipating inflation that they're not being aggressive enough. It was a real interesting article if I can get a copy of it I'll send it out to this group, but Larry Sumner, he's been very prescient about interest rates in the past, and for someone of that magnitude to say, we're not being aggressive enough on inflation. It's a little concerned. The point is, I'm meeting with Teresa Bryce bays more over the weekend, and she's the president of the sense of the federal home loan bank. That's where I'm getting a lot of my. Okay, I think you have granted granted she only covers you know the western part of the US Nevada, or California, whatever but but she has she has pretty pretty good ear to the track. I would definitely say so there's any guidance or information you can give us after your meeting that definitely be welcome but always appreciate the feedback and input fall. Absolutely. Thanks. Next item future agenda topics. We always ask for people for feedback on future meetings and we're definitely starting to get that our next subgroup meeting is in July. So, at the July subgroup meeting I've spoken with Jim McCoy at block daemon. He's going to be introducing that distributed finance or defy subgroup. I'm not sure if he's on this call but he's reserved for July. And then will guestner from Renier solutions is on the call or was on an earlier call earlier part of today's call. He's going to be talking about blockchain and mortgage servicing in August. And James. Thank you for joining us maybe you're someone that can speak in detail about what you're doing on one of our future mortgage subledger calls. Lucas, I noticed you popped off mute just a little bit ago was there something you wanted to contribute. Yeah, no I just a kind of a question and I jumped on late today guys sorry. You know, given the market shifts, you know, and some of these proof of concepts already being a hard sell, at least in economic terms sometimes have you seen really a shift in kind of making things a little more tangible short term. As far as the benefits of some of these, you know, proof of concepts that people are building or is it still more focused on, I guess, larger changes and I guess an example that would be you know I mean like you see people handling transactions on blockchain but you don't really see, I don't see there's a high volume of loan transactions actually happening from a trade perspective. I'll take a stab at that then I'll turn it over to the rest of the team I think, at least from my experience, we have seen the shift there's been a lot more emphasis on ROI. One of the questions that I've been having in people with people the question that I keep hearing consistently is okay what's the real benefit of blockchain, I can do this with my current technology at less the cost. What are you guys in blockchain bringing to the table. And that that's one of the things that I hear and honestly can sometimes be challenging to answer that question, because we are still in the proof of concept stage. So once you start expanding blockchain from point solution to a much broader solution. It really does become a more value added a cheaper solution. What Redwood Trust did in terms of being able to demonstrate the significant cost savings 100 basis points just from the audit and compliance perspective. I think that's very telling. And I think as we start to roll out the solutions, a lot of that are why information is going to come out in James Angel or anyone else on the call wanted to give input to Lucas. Yeah, Marvin can you bring up that slide that shows the blockchain activity in the mortgage sector. Yeah, so Lucas, I don't know if you were in the meeting when we discussed this slide, but based on the folks that we're talking to and working with at several levels. And the industry going through a very difficult time right now. There's there is interest, but what the industry doesn't know is what are the turnkey solutions that are available today. What does it take to implement what is the time and cost to implement and what type of savings are they going to get. So there's very with promising is that there is a lot of activity popping up across the entire value chain of mortgages and we'll be updating this, but we're still in that early adopter phase. POC pilot phase there are some organizations that are already in production, first generation technologies. And you know those take time to bed in and work out and fully integrate. And what what we're going to be doing is doing a scan of all these organizations and find out where they are today and what they're willing to share so that we can help the industry. Get awareness of who the players are, where they position what they can provide what is turnkey, and how organizations can start to get value. So the mortgage lender today whether you're an IMB or a bank, it's, it's, it's a tough economic model right now. Probably looking at cost savings as, as a way to, you know, improve the bottom line. Some are looking for growth, but technology is really going to help you move the needle a lot. So how does blockchain technologies compete to the traditional technologies that are out there today, whether they're legacy or just developed in the last couple years, but that's going to be interesting to to see what's out there. Not sure I directly answered your question, but I just wanted to make sure you were aware of this conversation we had earlier. And Lucas, I wanted to add another couple points to what Angel was saying. When we held our last meeting we walked through several proof of concepts that we its event has had gone through. And what was really telling in those proof of concepts were the first couple ones pretty much reinforce what the detractors were saying response time cost of blockchain. Those were all things we experienced in the POC is we set up using Ethereum as the blockchain platform. Ethereum has transactions per second about seven to 12. When we put two people on our POC in response time latency. We just shot through the roof we had people sitting around waiting for a couple minutes, not a couple seconds for just one or two simultaneous transactions. We switch from Ethereum to hyperledger fabric, which has a transactions per second of well over 10 to 12,000 per second, and those latency problems went away. So I think as people get smarter and people get further along on these POCs, they'll start to address a lot of those issues that people brought up before about blockchain. And then what we're also finding to address the ROI issue is, once you start marrying blockchain with other technologies, especially AI and RPA. Then the potential for automation, the potential for expedited transactions really, it really increases significantly, a lot greater than what you or what AI or RPA can do alone. Blockchain provides the data or information that AI and RPA can use to make a process a lot more efficient. And if it sounds like I drank the Kool-Aid, then I probably did. Yeah, I think the other thing to really think about is it really takes scale, right? So if you look at the organizations that are working on blockchain that have done it in production, they have a network already their own private network. And within that private network, they have their service providers and information providers. And so they have a lot of control. And so within their organization, they're able to rationalize the cost benefit analysis and the investment in blockchain and take an experimental approach. Right, so Redwood Trust took it to the next level with an actual securitization of loans that use blockchain technology to help perform due diligence and prepare those loans for securitization, right? So, and, you know, they're a pretty big player, liquid mortgages part of them, right? They have resources and investment and teams dedicated to this. There are also large banks that have private semi-secret or full stealth mode. Blockchain initiative is going on right now that we're not all privy to or not yet available, but some of these major capabilities are common knowledge. And the last point I want to add, that's why I wanted to share the sample population information so that as you take a look at this and I highly recommend that people take a look at the actual study from Fannie Mae. It was the larger institutions, the larger banks, the larger depository institutions that were further along in the blockchain journey and also that had a more positive view of blockchain because they had experienced it. And to Angel's point, they have the wherewithal, the financial capital, the balance sheet to be able to support this type of technology and experiment with it. They can be at the bleeding edge of technology, but also they're the ones that get the first benefit. Great commentary, guys. I know we're starting to get to the top of our hour. Are there any other questions or comments from the rest of the team? I think this has been a great discussion and I always look forward to speaking with everyone on this call. Yeah, Marvin, before we wrap this up, I'm dropping into chat right now a link to our Discord channel. You want to talk about that a little bit? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. The Discord channel is relatively new. When we first started this group, a lot of the discussion was taking place through the Hyperledger Rocket Chat Discord, I think is a much better social media tool. And we're constantly monitoring that. So if you guys have questions, you guys are going through your own POC, you're experimenting with some of the sample cases from Hyperledger. Drop something into the Discord chat and let us know or if you are having questions or just want to talk about your experiences, Discord is a fantastic medium to have these discussions. So James, thanks for covering that Discord channel. Absolutely. And in fact, you know, in next month's presentation, we'll add in a slide that'll have links to the Discord channel. There's a LinkedIn site. In fact, let me grab it right now. I'll drop that in as well. And this way, you know, again, if you go to the Wiki, you can see these presentations that we're doing, you can access them as well as all of the available links. Hey guys, any other questions or comments? I've got to go, but Marvin, thank you. So that was a great meeting. Very, very, very productive, I thought. Thanks, Paul. I appreciate the feedback. Always love hearing from you. Likewise, I'll give you a call. I'll give you a call next day or so. Okay, everyone that brings us to the end of our call. Great conversation. This recording will be made available on the Hyperledger YouTube channel and also the Wiki within the next day or so once we're able to convert it to the right media. Okay, with that, thank you everyone. I appreciate the time. Have a great rest of your day.