 This meeting is officially being recorded. My name is Alicia Walker, and I am calling this meeting to order as co-chair. Governor Baker's extension of the March 12 order suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law allows us to hold this virtual meeting of the working group. Given that we have a quorum present, I am calling the July 22nd 2021 meeting of the community safety working group. The order at 5.32 p.m. I will call upon each member of the working group by name. At that time they should unmute their mic and say present. This will indicate that they can hear me and we can hear them. Please remember to mute your mic after saying present. Mr. Russ Fernan Jones. Present. Miss Pat Ananabaku. Yeah. Miss Deborah Ferrera. Present. I want to take a couple of minutes to review the agenda. We will first hear any public comment that members of the public want to provide to the working group. We will not respond to your comments, but we will listen to your comments carefully. We will then hear comments from members who have something to report. And we will go into the. And as follows, a follow-up from the chairs in regards to the answers for Mr. Backelman, subgroup check-in discussion of questions submitted by Russ Fernan Jones. A review of the resident oversight board, membership stipend and an update to the consulting process. RFP phase two and recommendations from part one. We will now move on to our first order of business. Yes. No, no, no, that's okay. Okay. Our first order of business is the public comment section of the agenda. If any member of the public would like to make a statement, please raise your hand. I will recognize you and ask Miss moisten to turn on your microphone. Okay. Thank you for listening. If you have any comments, comments be limited to no more than three minutes. The working group will be, we'll not be responding to your comments, but we will be listening carefully. It looks like Demetria. I just wanted to publicly comment on some information that was shared on last week pertaining to Amherst media. As some of you might know, I am a board member of Amherst media. I've been a board member for over eight years. I'm the past president, immediate past president of Amherst media, and I'm the current secretary. I want to comment publicly that I was extremely disappointed at Jennifer Moisten's comments as a staff member of Town Hall. I think she is unfortunately very misinformed about the role of Amherst media in this community. We are a non-profit that have over 40 years of history and continued service in the town of Amherst, and we are what's called a peg station, which is public education and government. And I was part of the negotiation of the contract with the town and Comcast, and I was present and on the board when the town renegotiated their contract with Amherst media. I can assure you what is in the contract is that the public part of peg is not an area in which we are obligated to cover anything on behalf of the town. The peg part is specifically set aside for people within the community, residents, private citizens who would like to create their own content to have their voices shared and broadcast to the community. The educational part is part of the contract which includes school committee meetings, and then the government part is very specific in terms of what we are to cover. And I can assure you every year we cover beyond what we are contractually required to do. Why? Because we think it's important to be transparent and to have that voice and those messages and that information available to the public. So I would urge Ms. Moyston, the town manager, and CSWG to take a look at the actual contract before spreading these narratives that undermine really the town's relationship with Amherst media and what we do. So thank you again for holding this meeting. I look forward to hearing what you have to share this evening. Thank you, Dee. Okay. It doesn't look as though we have anybody else who would like to public comment. Do I need to wait or is it okay to move on? I think it's fine to move on. Okay, great. So next I would like to go into membered reports. This is time for members to update us on any work they are doing or events that are coming up. Does anybody have anything that they would like to share? Ms. Pat? So I would like to report on behalf of the work myself and Alicia and have been working on the standing committee. And I want to publicly thank Mr. Ross for his input. The way I'm thinking about this is for us to round this up and hand it over to the town manager and the town council, I will imagine that they need time to, the town manager will need time to recruit the standing committee. If between now and next week, if we have time tonight to suggest name, we don't have name for it. And if people still want to give input, please send it along to Ms. Moisten so that myself and Alicia can include it and have it ready to go. On a different note, we're still working on the traffic control document. And just very quickly, and I know this is not, you know, part of project, but I'm also thinking in terms of oversight board, if we can wrap this up, I mean, we've been talking about oversight board for months now, wrap this up by middle or third week of August and submit to the town manager and town council. That way if they have feedback for us and that way if family needs to start recruiting people to put on the board, instead of us waiting until the end of October or handing it over on November 1st, that is what I'm thinking, the way my brain works. I like to do projects in installments rather than waiting until the whole thing so that it will not fail over women. And the last point is we pretty did very well last week, we were within two hours of meeting if we all can just be conscious as we move forward when we speak so that we can end promptly. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Pat. Does anybody else have anything they would like to share at this time? Mr. Vernon Jones. I just wanted to mention, as I said last week, I'm actually only available until five minutes to seven tonight because of another commitment that I couldn't move. And I wanted to report that I got a couple of minutes on the phone with Dr. Barbara Love and did let her know that we were interested in including something about her, the notion of a visioning process for the town that she had presented to us and asked her if she would try to give us maybe a two-page write-up of that process. And she said, given her schedule, she couldn't absolutely commit, but she would try and appreciate it very much that we wanted to include the idea in our report. And I would like to support Ms. Pat's notion that we not wait until the very end of our term to submit things to the town manager or town council. I'm still working on researching the resident oversight board and I keep running into new things each week. And so I'd like a little more time to keep going with that before we try to make final agreements. But I do like the idea not waiting until the end to turn in our next report. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones. I would like to, unless anybody else has anything they would like to share at this time, I would like to invite a small discussion about the timeline. Thank you for proposing that idea, Ms. Pat. I think that that's a great idea, especially if we can wrap up the charge for the successor group first because that is something that I think we have the ability to finish more quickly than the other things that we are working on. And so I think that it would be helpful if everyone could take another look at the draft that we have now and prepare for a more in-depth discussion next week. And if you all can send any suggestions you have to Mrs. Pat or I so that we can hopefully have an updated draft to finalize for next meeting. Okay, great. And so I just want to make sure that's okay with everybody else. Everyone is okay with trying to get that in sooner. And then I think we can revisit the resident oversight board, which I also agree we shouldn't wait until last minute, but I think we can give Mr. Vernon Jones a little bit more time and then also next week maybe come back to looking at a date for that. Ms. Ferreira. Yeah. I mean, I definitely agree with us kind of, you know, having more time to, you know, get some feedback and everything because, you know, we're going to be ending on November 1st. But the only thing is though is just do we have the time though to get all of that done, you know, our timelines are already pretty pushed. So I do want to do it, but I want to I guess we need to kind of really figure it out because I also don't want us to, you know, kind of short change the process and make sure that we do do some good recommendations for it. So that's why I'm kind of like, yeah, let's do it, but let's make sure we think it through. So we get, you know, some good information on there. Thank you, Ms. Ferreira. Let me say, and one more thing, and I feel again, you know, that we're having to do all this because, you know, Mr. Bachman, unfortunately wasn't wasn't willing to, you know, keep us on board until we really got everything done. So again, it's just feeling rushed. I guess that's the thing. Thank you, Ms. Ferreira. I think so. I think it would be helpful if we do have further discussion on this. I think you're right, Ms. Ferreira that you need to be pretty methodic about what we decide to do and our timeline moving forward. But I think just as of right now, we can take a look at the successor groups charge, and then next week we'll go a little bit more into that. So we can have a little bit of time to think about that. And then I also just wanted to share something on behalf of Briana who will be here, but it's running a little bit behind tonight. She wanted to bring up the email that we received from the League of Women Voters inviting the CSWG to a network gathering of racial justice activists next. Their next meeting is Thursday, July 29 from seven to nine, and the email was sent to everybody midweek with all of the information. She wanted to let CSWG members know that if possible, members of the League are interested in us giving them pieces of reading workshops or media that has influenced our work. Yes, Mr. Vernon Jones. When we were talking informally before the meeting began. Ms. Pat raised the question of whether we might try to end our meeting by 7pm next week so that we could attend the League meeting if we were interested. And I'm not sure what you were thinking about that. Yes, Mrs. Pat. Yeah, I've attended that gathering a few times. I see really a good link from the work the group is doing, not just the League. There are different groups together, coalition. And I can see that being beneficial to the work we're doing. So I will really appreciate if we can find ourselves next week to end at 7. In other words, whether we're done or not, I will have to hop into that meeting next week at 7. Okay, is that something that other members are interested or able to participate in? Ms. Farera? Yeah, it's possible. I'd be willing to also seems like it would be a good meeting to jump on. And Mr. Vernon Jones. I'd like to be able to go to it if we can work it out. Okay. I think that's, I'm okay with that. I'm on board with that idea. I think we can just really get the agenda focused and pinpointed for next week so that we know exactly what we want to discuss. And we can prepare ahead of time so that we can really try to end the meeting by 7. And so I know that we are doing a bunch of work in sort of subgroups right now. And so maybe just quick updates next week because we do have more research to do. And later during this meeting, we can identify which, what information we're looking to have. By next week or the following meeting. Ms. Moisten. Okay. And I'll probably post a meeting for next Thursday's league of women voters meeting just to avoid any. Kind of communication so that you guys will have two meetings scheduled. Okay. Thank you. I. Yes, Mr. Well, I guess I have a question about that, Miss Morrison. Can you explain that? So is it because since. A couple of us are going to be. We have to post it. So it's just that when there's a quorum of you guys in one setting outside of a meeting, it's best practice to post a meeting for it. Because otherwise it, you know, someone could possibly question it or. But is it so if there's four of you guys, it's always best to post a meeting. So it's not that it makes it that anybody has to attend the league of women voters meeting. It's just a precautionary measure. Thank you. Miss. Another question from Miss. Even if we're not speaking, I mean, I've attended the gathering, but I've not said anything. I just listen in. We still have to post the meeting. I, I'll check with Paul, but it would be best to post a meeting anytime that more than the quorum is going to be together, possibly be together. Right. And so like, if it was live and the four of you were just standing talking, somebody could. Could question that even though you're probably talking about what's going on. But because we know that the majority of us, of you guys will be there, it's best to post it. I mean, and again, I'll check with Paul and it doesn't really make a difference on, on your ends. So. Okay. Thank you, Miss. Okay. And does anybody have anything else they would like to share for the members report section. Of our meeting. No, okay. So I will move to. The next item on the agenda. Which is a follow-up from the chairs. So Brianna and I. We're hoping to find time to meet with Mr. Backelman this week so that we could report back to you all on the specific questions that we were looking to have answered in order to move forward. However, Mr. Backelman was unavailable to meet with us this week. So we did send him an email containing the questions that we had. And have included in the packet. We also have a copy of the email answers that he sent to us yesterday. I'm not sure if everyone had. A time to go over it, but the things that we were asking were about the money available for consultants, money within reach for the resident oversight board stipends. Clarity on the police vacancies, how quickly they will be filled and what role the CSWG can play in that. So we're looking to see where the budgeted money from Cress, for Cress is coming from. And why the town has yet to pay Amherst media in regards to the filming of the Juneteenth event. And did it, did everyone have a chance to look at these answers? Ms. So I haven't had a chance to look at these answers. And then obviously as you know, I wasn't at last week's meeting. I was at the meeting. I was at the meeting. I was at the meeting. So around. The whole like police vacancies. So I'm, I'm a little bit out of the loop. Why are we, why are they filling police vacancies when we had said for them not to go police vacancies. I'm confused. Yes. Thank you, Ms. So I think you were out of town, but Mr. Bachlem and did send an email to the group and letting us know or just giving us a heads up that they were. You know, I don't know what's going on. Yeah. Unfortunately, I don't have an answer for that, but we just also had questions in regards to those. And Mr. Backelman also was not at our last meeting. And we agreed as a group that we did not want to specifically invite him. To a meeting, to one of our public meetings, but we did not want to invite him to the meeting. So we did not want to invite him to the meeting. We did not want to invite him to the side of the group to bring answers to you all. However, he was unavailable for a meeting. So these were just the. The preliminary answers that he could give to us in the meantime, and we're hoping to be able to schedule a meeting with him when he's back. Yeah, Ms. Pat and then Ms. Ferreira. I think Mr. Ross raised his hand first. Sorry. Mr. Ross. The thing is that at the time the town council approved the budget, there were 44 sworn officers on active. And actively employed in the department. And the APD was budgeted for 48 positions last year. The town manager put in the budget for them to have 46 positions this year. So they were budgeted for this for FY 22 for. 46 officers. And that means they had. Two vacancies and they were moving to fill those. Now he's. Referenced in this email reference. Numerous, numerous vacant positions. I don't know what that's about. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones. Ms. Pat and then Ms. Ferreira. So I actually read it. This is an updated. Meeting packet that was sent along. And. Plus. The work that. The. Press implementation. Team. Are doing. It's very clear that. Mr. Bachman. Will use the ADK. That is devoted for equity work. Townwide. Some of it to us. Oversight. What. Stippend. And that's worrisome for me. Because. Just to allocate only ADK. For equity work. With. Celebrations like, you know, ones that, you know, other stuff that. You know, promote. BIPOC activities. So I'm concerned about that. And that leads me to. In our recommendation for. Oversight. But. Perhaps we might think. Because. Just to allocate only 80 K. For equity work. What would that pay for? Basically. It's too little. With celebrations. Like, you know, ones that, you know, other stuff that. You know, I'm concerned about. Perhaps we might think of reducing the stipend. Because. Based on the. Email we got from a resident. Stating that the town council chair. It's not supportive of the 10 K. Basically. Of stipend. So, I mean, we can still recommend 10 K. The time manager will do what he wants to do. So I'm kind of disappointed that that's where the money is coming from. From the 80 K. It's my point. Really disappointed. Thank you. Miss. Ms. Yeah. So I mean, I guess I want to kind of voice some of my disappointment. Again, you know, in terms of first the vacancies, I mean, I get what you're saying, Mr. Brandon Jones that, you know, the town manager. And we know that that he increased it. He went to 46. I mean, I'm a little bit disappointed. Because he. You know, He didn't, didn't go without recommendation, which was to not fill anymore vacancies. And so that's very disappointing. And I want to, I want to put it on record. You know what I'm saying and, and, and make that statement loud and clear. First and foremost, I don't want to just. Get, you know, just. Kind of stated. And then, oh, okay. Because that's what is, it's the continual. Message that we keep on getting, right. That we make recommendations as best for our community. and we just get nothing in return, right? We said no more vacancies and here we go, right? And numerous vacancies advertised to sell vacancies in the police department, you know, like this is willy nilly. So what happened with the fact that, you know, everything that occurred around George Floyd, right? Being killed and, you know, United States basically the nation having to face the fact of what's been going on within these police departments. And then in Amherst and specific, the town council town manager saying, we're going to do something about it. And what you're going to do is increase the police. Is that what you're telling me? It's filled vacancies. Is that what you're telling me? No, that's not okay. This is just terrible, you know? And, you know, and it's, you know, like from the start of this meeting, I've been kind of like, oh my goodness. First with, now we got to rush, you know, again to get our, get our charge, you know, done because we got to rush, right? Because again, the town manager, Mr. Bachman, who I'm just disappointed. I mean, beyond disappointed, right? And then, you know, Ms. Pack bringing up the ADK again, which is a slap in the face, you know, because they don't want to put the money towards what is needed. What we've said is needed. We've been studying this. We've been looking at this. We've been researching this. And we've been saying that these are the things that are needed. So the town manager, the town council, you know, are not listening to us, are not hearing what we're saying. What the residents of this, especially the marginalized residents, the residents that have always been put to the side, you know, year in and year out, are saying is needed. So I'm not okay with just, you know, looking at these answers that are ridiculous and saying, okay, you know, they're not going, they're going to fill the vacancies. They're just going to do, because basically they're just going to do whatever they want. So I'll stop here. Thank you, Ms. Perera. Ms. Pack. So Ms. Perera, I agree with everything you just said, that we're facing reality. We all voiced our frustration last week. We devoted almost quite some time, you know, discussing our disappointment last week. I don't want to rehash all this. The reality that we're facing is, we're dealing with people in power. We can spend the next two, three years recommending, if they make up their mind already what they want to choose, that's what they're going to go along. We were very clear with CSWG that we want police reduction in terms of when police retire or resign, not to fill the position. They didn't listen to us. It would be the same thing with the second part of our charge. We will make recommendation, we'll be diligent, we'll put out whatever research, anything that we do, but it's up to them. What are we going to do? So it is what it is, unfortunately, you know, nobody was happy about it last week. And I mean, we're very clear what we wanted, he went on and said, you know, advertise for police officers. It's like beyond me, what can I say? And in terms of rushing to me, we will do our best. And what we cannot do, we will just, you know, make one or two sentences like, you know, due to time, you know, we were not able to reach or to work on certain issues because I will not be comfortable for CSWG to work on personnel issues, for example. This is like beyond our scope and also union issues. It needs somebody who my research background of people who do research to do that for us. And so if they're not going to provide resources for us, I don't, you know, I don't want us to feel that we have to address everything. That's where I am at right now. Thank you, Ms. Pat. And so I'm wondering if these answers provided any clarity or direction in terms of what we would like to do. I know one of the things we were looking for with the answers to these questions was direction in terms of our research and whether or not we'd be able to hire a consultant or what exactly we'd be looking for or asking the town manager for. And so I'm wondering if we have any other ideas or if this brings anything else to that conversation. I mean, when you guys met with, when you guys met with Mr. Delaney, Anthony, did he give any indication that the town is going to entertain, getting researchers to help us with our projects? Well, correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Vernon Jones, but it was my impression that he didn't have any information on that and that he was just giving us information in terms of what our options would be. And the reason why I believe this is because at one point during the meeting, he asked us how much money or what our budget was for this. And we don't know that I, we don't know that either. And so I don't think he has any more information than we do. Yes, Ms. Pat. So a couple of things, the reason why I raised this is that the direction we're going, I think there should be a follow-up question for Mr. Buckman in terms of, is he still going to agree to, you know, pay for researchers to help us out? Or is it out of the question? My thing, and where would that money be coming from? Is it going to be coming out of 80K? And that's what I'm afraid of. When I saw this, when I read the updated packet, I'm like, oh my God, 80,000, you know, for part of the oversight board, members depend for, you know, promoting BIPOC activities in town. Oh my gosh, where would the research money come from? So we need to get clarity from Mr. Buckman. Is he, you know, is he supporting the research work that we requested for, is my point. Thank you, Ms. Pat, Mr. Vernon Jones. Well, the way I read the things I've heard Mr. Buckman say and what he's written here in response to the first question, I think it's pretty clear he does not support our having a consultant, and that if we were going to hire a consultant, it would come from the 80K. And, you know, now that we're, you know, we're recommending the creation of an ongoing standing committee on diversity, equity and inclusion and the creation of a resident oversight board, it seems to me that we should try to do as much as we can with the resources we have. And the things that we don't get done, we now have two successor committees in a sense that have the option to follow through and go further with the things that we don't get done. So I just, I don't think we're gonna be successful in getting consultant services and I don't like where the money would come from anyway. So I'm inclined to say, let's do everything we can and leave the rest of the successor groups. I don't like that answer, but I think that's where we are. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones, Ms. Ferrara and then Ms. Pat. Well, I mean, I hear you're saying Mr. Vernon Jones, but I think we need to keep pushing just because, you know, I get what he's saying and he might not want to, but we have to keep pushing and we have to still keep asking the questions and documenting it. I'm not saying he needs to come in for a meeting, take up our time, but at least, you know, respond to him and ask for him to be clear. Like listen, we need consultants, you know, be clear, straight up, we need consultants, we need it. Because you know why? Because I know you're saying there's gonna be these two standing committees, so on and so forth. Are we sure there's gonna be these two standing committees? I mean, I know the diversity director and assistant director, yes, he has money for that and they're gonna be hired, but I don't trust it. You know what I'm saying? This standing, this committee that's gonna be standing, are we sure that that's gonna happen? So how do we know? You know, so my thing is if we can still get funds to help out with our work, let's get funds. Yes, we're gonna keep doing the work anyway. You know, but we need to put the pressure for the funds because I'm sorry, but I don't trust anything is gonna happen after we're done. I'm sorry. Thank you, Ms. Ferrer and Ms. Pat. So I posed that question even though I knew the answer already and Mr. Ross was right on it. He's not advocating for it, but I knew that Mr. Barkman is not interested to have like researcher or consultant to work with us because he is looking for researcher or consultant that has already have experience on police reform. He was very clear to us at several meetings that he attended. So we're being faced with reality. So picking back on what Ms. Ferrer said, even though we know what the reality is, we should still keep pushing but still continue to do the work. And I know what it's going to come down to like we won't be able to finish everything and still that's okay, but we will try our best and then hand over everything by end of October or November 1st. We'll try our best that the powerful man has stated what he wants and that's the way it's going to go I suppose that we can still keep pushing. And very quickly on Cress program, didn't the town council ask him to do eight responders by his funding for? So I just want to put that out. Thank you, Ms. Pat. Mr. Vernon Jones. Let me say I have no objection to keep pushing that for us to keep pushing on the funds. I do believe we should have them. I think it would be an appropriate allocation. I think we deserve it and have good reasons for our request. So I have no objection to continuing along those lines. I forgot something to say. Yes, Ms. Kahn. So I want to thank Brianna for sending a long document from Civil Rights website. You know, I haven't read much but I looked at it, I was like, y'all, you know, that should be our number one to go resource. You know, let's pick and let's look at it and see what, you know, that would be relevant for our community and work from that. I thought that's like goldmine. It's a very good document. It's a lot, 400 pages, but when I'm going to look into everything, that if it comes down to that, you know, we'll try our best. So thank you to Brianna for sharing that resource. Thank you, Ms. Pat. So I would like to offer two suggestions to get feedback from you all. And one is that, so I interpreted Mr. Bachlemann's answer to the first question in a similar way that it doesn't seem like he is interested in pursuing the consultant or in us pursuing the consultant. However, he did offer a few suggestions as to where the money could come from if we were to request one. And so I'm wondering, because I'm also uncomfortable with it coming from the ADK. I don't know much about the other options or if those look like realistic possibilities, but if this is something that we want to continue pressing on that we send a more formal request for a consultant saying, we would like to hire a consultant for this amount of money coming from this place and send it to him in that way and be more specific about it. I think that that would be helpful. And my other suggestion in terms of moving forward with work in the event that we don't have a consultant or while we're still pressing to get the funds to retain one is that we might reach out to people who are experts or have done some sort of research in this before and maybe see if people are willing to share information with us or answer certain questions that we have. I don't have any specific person in mind, but for example, if there was certain information that LEAP might have access to that would be helpful to us that we might reach out to them or other experts or professionals in that area to see if we can gather things in that way. So I think the next, I'm trying to be mindful of the Mr. Vernon Jones time. And I think the next thing on the agenda is, well, subgroup check-in, but I think we sort of went over that in the members reports unless anybody else has anything to report Mr. Vernon Jones. I just wanted to ask about what Mr. Bachmann sent us there about our being part of hiring in the police department. He sort of says a definite no there, but when we met with the police chief, didn't the chief indicate that they had been interested in having civilian or resident participation in the hiring process in the past? Ms. Owen. Mr. Vernon Jones, I was gonna bring that up too. The chief did say that. And at the last meeting, I did bring up the CSWG being a part of the hiring process. But the more that I think about that, I kind of have a bad feeling because for the one officer that they're talking about who's in the pipeline right now, it sounds like they've had that person in mind for a while. And I would hate for us to be just a check box and we're a group doing alternative safety. And the community has really trusted us to put that forth. So I think that in sitting on such a committee, we might lose community trust. And I'm not sure how much weight our voice will actually have because this one person that they've been talking about, it sounds like they've been in the pipeline for a long time. Thank you, Ms. Owen, Ms. Pat. So Brianna, thank you for sharing that. That was my thought process last week when you raised that, but I didn't wanna say anything. I think our credibility in the community is very, very critical. Yeah, we should not be part of the interview because it will be very conflicting. We're saying we don't want additional police and then we want to volunteer for the interview committee. It's just, so I'm glad that we've taken a stand that we will not be part of the interview committee. So I support your comments, Brianna. Thank you, Ms. Ferreira and then Mr. Vernon Jones. Yeah, me too. I mean, I don't have all the information on this, but just kind of hearing about it right now. And I did see some some information on emails that I was looking through in regards to it. Yeah, I don't think it would be a good idea for any of us to serve on this. At least that would be my opinion. I wouldn't wanna do it just because again, yeah, we were very clear on our recommendations that we don't want these positions to be filled. These vacant positions to not be filled by the police. I get why we might think about doing it because we understand that obviously our voice there, we might get good police people to come on board because we would, but again, would we be the only voice there again? And do they already have their plans set? And therefore it would be just us being there but not having any real decision power. So my vote too would be no. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones. Yeah, I only raised it to see whether anybody was interested in doing it. I'm not interested and I share what people have just said. Long-term, I do think we want the BIPOC community to have a voice in hiring of police. But at this time, when we don't support filling these positions and we have more than enough work to do ourselves, I agree we should not participate. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones. Is there anything else within the email here from Mr. Backelman that any members would like to continue to discuss at this time? Ms. Ferrara and then Ms. Pat. Well, just quickly, I mean, I didn't have a chance to really kind of read through it intently, so just so you know, Alicia, what I'll do is that, you know, I'll just read through it and then maybe just send any thoughts your way tomorrow before you respond to, you know, kind of follow up Mr. Backelman in terms of at least, you know, the money and the fact that we want a consultant because obviously that's clear, you know, we need to be clear about that language, but I'll review it and see if there's anything else that I would want mentioned to him. Okay, thank you, Ms. Ferrara and Ms. Pat. So this is just agenda item checking. I know that Mr. Ross had to leave at seven. So maybe you may want to check with him in what topics, you know, he would like to be around for discussion before we lose him. The MS media might take 15 minutes or more, but because, yeah, but if there are other topics, Mr. Ross, you would like to be part of before seven p.m. You may want to let Alicia know. Thank you, Ms. Pat and Mr. Vernon Jones. Well, thank you. I appreciate the question. Well, I would like to ask that the question of the stipend for the resident oversight board be not be dealt with tonight, but give me a chance to do some more research about other towns. And I mean, I think there are some things that are distinctive about Amherst, but I'd like to do a little more research before we get into the stipend question further. If we're going to talk about community policing tonight, I'd like to be a part of that, but I think it's fine to set the agenda as you think. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones. We do have two things on the agenda that would require a vote tonight. And so we might want to move those things up just in lieu of your necessity to be timely. And so I will, and then the other thing was the discussion on the questions that you submitted. And I would assume that you may want to be present for that conversation as well. And so I would like to first come back to, we last week had a discussion as to whether or not we would like to have a meeting with Mr. Irv Rhodes. For those of you who may not have seen the last email that was submitted by Mr. Rhodes, and what he is interested in meeting with the group in regards to, it is in tonight's packet. And I would like to bring that forth now for a vote. I don't know if we need to have more discussion, but just that we deferred the vote because not everyone was present last week. We still do not have everyone present, but we have more members. And so I'm bringing it forth to see if we would like to move forward with the vote tonight. Ms. Owen. Before we take the vote, I just wanted to say this to the group. I think that for the second part of our charge, we should try to have Mr. Rhodes join us for public comment and inform our work. But based off the last email he sent to our group, he wants to discuss the ideas he put forth for the first part of our charge. I can only speak for myself and I'm very busy. And these are recommendations that are already in writing, have been presented and working on the implementation stages. So I think it would be in the group's best interest to move forward. And I just wanted to say that before we take the vote. Thank you, Ms. Owen. Does anybody else have anything they would like to add before I move into a vote? Okay. And so I am asking the group to vote now on whether or not we should look to have a public meeting with Mr. Irv Rhodes in regards to the questions submitted here in the packet. Do I need to go one by one, Ms. Moisten? You can just do a group vote. So we can do I, May and I. So you can ask the question and then say all those in favor, I and then all those who disagree, May. And we can count them. Okay. So all those in favor of inviting Mr. Irv Rhodes to a recorded conversation in regards to the questions that he has submitted to us, please say I or can we also raise a virtual hand or say I? I. I. Okay. And all those who are not in favor, please say, May at this time or raise a virtual hand. May. May. Okay. Thank you. So we had two in favor and four opposed. And so at this time, we will not be looking to hold a recorded discussion in regards to these items. However, I do want to circle back to Brianna's previous comment and say that we do encourage Mr. Irv Rhodes to participate with us and communicate with us in regards to the second part of our charge that we do welcome public comment or emails to the CSWG as a group for topics or any issues that arise. The second item that I think we were looking to have a vote on tonight is whether or not or in which way the CSWG would be looking to support Amherst media. And so I want to first open the floor to Ms. Pat and Ms. Brianna, as well as myself who had the time to meet with the director of Amherst media just to get a little bit more information regarding the situation to report back to you all. So I would like Brianna to start. And Alicia, you can chime in. And whatever is left, I can chime in. How about that? Okay, great. So what I took from the meeting with Amherst media, first off, I think what Amherst media is doing for the community is amazing. I think that they're a huge asset to making sure that what's happening in town government is transparent. But from the meeting last night, and I'm looking at my email from Dr. Shabazz just to make sure I don't, so make sure I get it right. So Amherst media wants to draw down on funds from the town capital funds to pay off the mortgage owed on property purchase by Amherst media, how the funding works for local access stations. Since federal communications commissions laws during the 1970s is that cable corporations like Comcast are required to pay a percentage in towns in which they operate for access to stations and cable infrastructures. This is known as franchise fees negotiated every 10 years with the cable companies. Disha Bazz wrote in her email to myself, Ms. Pat and Alicia prior to our meeting, when she negotiated these fees on behalf of the town, she was appointed by the past town manager Basante who suddenly died before the contract was signed. These fees include capital funds for franchise fees, about five cents for every dollar a cable subscriber pays for broadcasting. According to their contract, these fees can be used to pay for equipment and facilities for their buildings, for their building, sorry, singular. Previous Tobackelman town manager, Ms. Ante supported the purchase of the land intended to build a permanent home for Amherst media, understanding that capital funds could be used not only for equipment, but also for facilities or the building. Ms. Ante used capital funds to support the down payment on the property purchased in 2014 on Main Street for a permanent location for Amherst media. Their goal and what they've asked for about three months ago is that the current town manager advanced these funds which are not taxpayer monies nor town funds to the bank where their mortgages owed in order to pay off the loan for the building of their facility. Thank you, Brianna. Alicia, you have stuff to add before I speak. I can go. Sorry, no, I don't think I have anything to add. I think I gave a really good summary. So I will let you do. Okay, so like Alicia stated before, we met with Mr. Jeem, the executive director and Dr. Shabazz, who is the board member and former board president and current secretary. And basically Mr. Jeem explained the history of Amherst media and how the town has not been very supportive and not like pointing out one person in particular that is a history of, for example, the town meeting not wanting Amherst media to be in Banks Community Center, the trustees, the Jones Library trustee not wanting that and so on and so forth. And basically what Brianna just stated, this is not taxpayer's money. That is a contract between the town and Amherst media. And the point of disagreement is that the town position meaning town manager says that contract is the money that should be drawn should be only for equipment. However, the contract stated both equipment and facility. And so Amherst media is trying to request their money. So use it to cover their mortgage and the town disagrees in that way. And we do know that Mr. Jeem have reached out to our state senator, Joe Comfort, and also to our rep, Ms. Mindum, and they have reached out to town council and the town council told them that the town is negotiating with the Amherst media in terms of releasing the fund. And so basically Amherst media is wanting subscribers and town resident for support so that the money can be released to them. Most of us have cable TV in our homes. This is our money that some percentage is being used to fund the existence of Amherst media. It's not taxpayer's money. So I don't see what the big deal is. Why wouldn't the town release the fund? Just very quickly, when the most recent contract between the town and Comcast was negotiated, it was $1.125 million or something like that. And that's like specific allocation. So Amherst media was allocated $675,000 in town of Amherst, $450,000. This was actually in 2016. And so Amherst media, and they're supposed to use the money for 10 years, Amherst media has drawn down so far, they've spent $170,000 to two to six. So they still have quite some money in their account. And they're only requesting for $139,000 to help pay their mortgage because what is happening currently is that they're paying interest on the mortgage when they have money sitting that they could use. And also they're paying tax on that, on their land as well. And so why would you have money? It's like basic economics, basic, yeah. Why would you have money sitting somewhere and then you're paying somebody, throwing away money, interest. And the more they wait, the more they're paying interest in their mortgage. And it's not faced, it's the issue of fairness and power dynamics in this town. And as I was listening last night in our meeting, I had a lot of emotion because as CSWGS, we're doing recommendation. So the next week here, I can't speak for everyone, but I feel that we have to work with Amherst media, we have to collaborate with them. Amherst media will be one of the venues to amplify issues of Viper. My vision, I can't speak for everyone, my vision of how the standing committee that we're recommending would be to have, so really work closely with Amherst media, for example. Why would we not support them in the great work they're doing to engage community? I remember when Seven Gen did their research, as there were some BIPOC folks, including Cambodian residents, folks, who said they would love to do some production through Amherst media, for example. If we have BIPOC events happening in town, why wouldn't we have Amherst media cover it? And so on and so forth. So I just feel the power dynamics in this town just sucks. And I've made up my mind, I will support for us to send a lot of support to the town council and also to the media. There are also some groups and individuals who have supported Amherst media, its grassroots is happening. There might be some petition going on for people to sign. If we're talking about inclusion, diversity, this is the time for us to, they've been supporting us, we need to support people who support us. So that's all I have to say. And if people have questions, please ask. I took a lot of notes, but I will stop in the interest of time, I'm very conscious about Mr. Ross that has to live at Seven. Thank you, Ms. Pat. I think between Brianna and Ms. Pat that they gave a very comprehensive overview of our meeting. And so I just want to open the floor at this time if there are any questions or discussion that we want to have before going into a vote as to whether or not or how we would be interested in supporting Amherst media. Okay, so I don't see any questions. So what I will ask is if we are prepared to take a vote as to whether or not we would like to write a letter of support to the town council and to the media on behalf of Amherst media in regards to releasing funds so that they can pay off the rest of the mortgage on their building. And can I do this vote the same way as the other one? All those in favor, please say aye or use an electronic hand. Actually, I have a question, sorry. It's just as you were talking, it came to mind because I don't know. So thank you all for sharing information because I didn't know as much information about that. But also the other thing was, what is the whole thing in connection with Juneteenth and everything else? So I'm not clear about that. Can anyone share that? Because I know about obviously them paying off the mortgage and so on and so forth, but can someone clarify about that? Just quickly. Yeah, so the plan yesterday at the meeting, thank you, very good question. Was for us to come back, there are two separate issues but at the request of Mr. Jim, he wants the community, he wants CSWG, he wants residents support us to only focus on the release of $139,000. So he basically told us not to discuss Juneteenth because who knows, the time council or maybe the time manager might say, give them the money, give them the money for the Juneteenth and then the main issue, staying hanging. So pick your battle first. Let's finish this one, maybe next week might be a good time to bring it up on next month after they get their money, the $139,000. We will bring it up but I think MSMedia wants people to focus on the big five, the money. Does that make sense? Is that correct Brianna and Alicia? Okay. Thank you, Ms. Pat. I'm with that helpfulness for, okay, great. And so unless there are any other questions, I would like to move back into the vote. All those in favor of writing a letter to the town council and to the media on behalf of MSMedia in regards to releasing the funds for them to pay off their mortgage, please say aye or raise an electronic hand at this time. Aye. Aye. Aye. Okay, so it looks like we have a unanimous vote to write a letter of support. And so I'm wondering how we would like to go about creating such a document if you would like, I think Brianna, Ms. Pat and I did meet with MSMedia and do have a little bit more details. And so I'm not sure if it would be helpful for us to start a draft or what you all are thinking in regards to that. Ms. Pat and then Mr. William Jones. I mean, I took a detailed note. I'd be happy to work with, you know, either of you or both of you. And for the media, I think traditionally we've said co-chairs, but I think it will be very powerful, you know, as an exception if we can list all the CSWG members for the press release and even to the town council, like all the members, you know, of CSWG when we write the letter just to, you know, to show strong support. Thank you, Ms. Pat, Mr. Vernon Jones. I think it'd be great if the three of you would draft a letter. If you want to put our names on it individually, I think it would be a courtesy to let everybody have a quick look at it. Just affirm that we're ready to put our names on, but I'd be great for the three of you to write it. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones. And that, yes, Ms. Pat. So when do you guys want to review our draft? Monday, this weekend, I know everybody's busy, people are super busy, myself included. So I would like us to get this out, you know, by next Ms. Bulletin, not this week, this week it's out of the way. If we can submit something by Tuesday, I think that their deadline will be good. How does Monday sound to people like by 12 noon to give us feedback if we send it on Sunday? Does that work for people? Okay, great. Thank you, Ms. Pat. So Brianna, Ms. Pat and I will work on a draft to have ready for you all for Sunday, and then we will be asking for any recommendations or edits due back by Monday at noon and in hopes of getting this released for Tuesday. Thank you, Ms. Pat and Brianna. Yes, Ms. Pat. I just want to thank my fellow members, CSW members for trusting three or four to meet yesterday and voting in favor of this. It really means a lot to me. Thank you very much. Thank you, Ms. Pat. Okay, and so the next item that I wanted to move into was the discussion of the questions submitted by Mr. Vernon Jones. Mr. Vernon Jones, I know you only have about 15 minutes left, but I thought we might start that conversation. I'm not sure if everyone had a chance. Thank you, Ms. Moyster. To take a look at these questions regarding community policing. And so the first question is, is the problem with community policing or is the problem with what the APD has implemented and called community policing? Well, I'm not sure if we have to go at them one by one, but I'll just read them all. The second question is, do we want and can we have community policing without over-policing and over-surveillance of BIPOC communities? And what do we recommend for Amherst that will be in the interest of BIPOC communities? And so I just want to open the floor now to hear if you all had some time to put any thoughts into this or any research or any ideas. Ms. Pat. So community policing is an area that brings a lot of emotion for me. And going to the first question, I think to me the problem is what the APD has implemented and called community policing. I know President Biden just wasn't yesterday or two days ago, the town hall that he had on CNN is promoting community policing. I'm not a big fan. I don't know. I worry about over-policing. I worry about some BIPOC folks being re-traumatized with even with casual interaction with police. I don't know. It's an area that I don't know. Yeah. Thank you, Ms. Ferreira. So I mean, I think along the same lines as what Ms. Pat was saying, obviously we had that report from 7th Gen, which really kind of cemented a lot of my discomfort with community policing. And I've been doing some reading obviously, but I still need to do more reading. So I think this is still a thought process. But going through this process that we've gone through in terms of CSWG, where we're trying to make some changes, but then there's the powers that be, those that are in power who keep pushing back and who keep resisting. So for me, in terms of community policing, it really seems like over-policing, first and foremost. And second, even in terms of the information that we received from the APD in the data that we had requested, my questions were always to them. Okay, but wait a minute. Where was really the community involved in it? Where was really you all kind of being out there in the community trusting you and building relationships? And that wasn't, I didn't see that in the data. You know what I'm saying? Which again cemented my thoughts and my kind of sentiment in terms of what I've been seeing that community policing is just kind of the word, right? Oh, where about community policing? But it's actually not happening. And I don't think it will happen, right? Because community policing in terms of the ideals that I was reading about is about having community involvement, not over-policing like what we saw with sevens gen, which was what happening, which was wherever the communities are where it's more people of color or people in a lower economic vantage point, then that's where the over-policing was happening. No, that's not community policing. You know what I'm saying? And from the data and from the questions that I asked, the police and everything, I never got back that response of, we actually have networks, we actually have people from the community in decision-making capacities within the APD. That would actually be a community collaboration and community having voice and power to say, okay, these are some of the things that you all have not been doing correctly and we want change. That to me would be community policing, not what is in place. And I'm not, and I'm sorry, by going through this CSWG process, I don't trust it that they're going to, if we support something around community policing, that they're going to put something in terms of what we say. So I'm very tenuous at this point. You know, obviously there's more reading to be done, but for me right now, unless something changes, I'm not for it in terms of how it's being offered. Thank you, Ms. Ferrara. Yeah, I agree with Ms. Ferrara. And I just want to say, I think something that could be useful in Amherst is if maybe the police officers here were reactive rather than proactive, because one thing that we all read in Seven Gens report was that the Amherst Police Department is, it kind of feels like they're looking for crime rather than responding to crime. And one number that really stood out to me at the sunrise rally was that police officers are spending $107 on gas per cruiser per day. That's a lot of money. I think that we should look into what reactive policing would look like in our community and if that's something within reach. I did want to report back to you all. I did get a chance to meet with Defund 413 to talk about this, because I was told that they recommended such a model, but they do not. They recommend defunding the police and putting the money into different areas. In my conversation with them, they were talking about just small things that the police department spends money on, like dry cleaning and snack stipends and how we can look at those budgets and justify them for whatever we suggest, whether that's reactive or any of the recommendations for Part 2. And I also think after doing just the short amount of reading that I did, I didn't finish all of it. I'm not going to lie, but I did one thing that really set out to me was the community making measurements as to how effective community policing is. And I think if we could find a way to define measuring community success and community involvement, that would be helpful because the APD thinks they're doing a great job and on paper, they have all of these organizations they work with, but I know everybody on this committee knows that that's not what's actually happening and we wouldn't all be here if that was the case. Thank you, Ms. Ellen, Ms. Pat and then Mr. Vernon Jones. So community policing is something that's been on my mind for a long time, even when we were working on Part A. And I have taken the liberty to speak to young people in our communities just casually about the whole concept of community policing. And I always have the reaction like, nope, they don't want to interact with police in any circumstance, whether they have uniform, whether they have uniform or they don't, whether they're being helpful, they do not want to. And for me, I'm over 60 years old, if I see a police officer in uniform, I freeze, I mean, I got scared. Can you imagine that? Even when I didn't do anything wrong. I can imagine young black or BIPOC folks to be extino, I don't know. I'm trying to think how we can handle this topic. I don't know. Do we need to even address it within this Web CSWG? For real? I don't know. Thank you, Ms. Pat, Mr. Vernon Jones and then Ms. Ferrara. Well, frankly, I wrote these questions before I had read the chapter in a new era of public safety. And I really ask that everybody read that chapter. I mean, it says it's 30 pages, but it's not because it's got a lot of charts and blank spaces and photographs and all. Because, I mean, it may be that we need to abandon the term community policing because I think it's been terribly misused in Amherst. I mean, this chapter specifically says this does not mean more police doing more strict enforcement in BIPOC communities. It specifically says this is not a collection of programs that build connected. It's a way of thinking about policing that actually gives the community power over how they are policed and engages the community in a problem-solving collaborative process. And that makes sense to me, that instead of the police imposing it, the police are really the servants of the community and engage the community. And what would the community think would create greater safety? So I'm prepared to abandon the title because it's been so misunderstood and misapplied in Amherst. But I do think there are some concepts that have been widely endorsed by, as I understand it's BIPOC leaders as well as others, and that we need to find some way to get at the police in Amherst thinking differently about their relationship to the community. So I'm like, we don't want over-policing. We don't want over-surveillance. We don't want people who don't want to talk to the police being forced to talk to the police. But we do want the community to have some power over the police and we want the community to be able to say what would create the most safety. So I would use a different title, but I think there's some concepts in here that we might want to hang on to and could actually move things in a better direction in Amherst. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones, Ms. Pat and then Ms. Ferrara. So finally, what I wanted to say just came to me. So I guess, so Dr. Barbara Locke had mentioned for our town, our community to heal, okay? People have been wrong. People are hurting. And I think when that happens, perhaps it might be a segue to even start talking about community policing, but just to for CSWG to recommend community policing, I worry about BIPOC community. I'm not saying everybody about CSWG credibility because I have talked to people. And I wouldn't claim that I spoke to everyone. Who is it BIPOC? That my credibility is very important to me. So I went working as a team, but I'll see how, you know, what we come up with. But I will think that the town, the resident healing should come first. So we should push hard to, you know, to have the town manager and the town council to commit to healing the town. We need that in order to even be discussing community policing. And I think Dr. Barbara Locke, you know, the town can award her like a contract to do that work, you know, whatever it takes, it's not something that is going to be rushed, but whatever it takes, you know, people has to heal to, to even listen to community policing. It's not, at least from my network, it's not, you know, what I'm hearing. Let me do policing. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Ferrer. So, you know, for me, I mean, I think we do need to address it because that's something that has been brought up and has been bandied about, even in terms of the name, you know, community policing and what it means. And, you know, I hear you, Mr. Brand Jones, when you said, well, maybe we need to kind of change the name or what have you, but, you know, for me, I think, you know, we need to address it. We need to think about, even if it's like, like you said, Ms. Pat, maybe a healing or something like that beforehand, but for me, I just don't feel comfortable even putting in place saying, hey, yes, these are some of the great things that was in this new era of public safety. I mean, it's been said before, it's been, you know, put on there as, this is what we're going to do, but then it doesn't get done. You know what I'm saying? I mean, that's my bottom line problem with this, because who's going to do it? You know what I'm saying? We're going to trust the APD, the chief to kind of have the way with all or for them to go and hire some consultant that they choose to now go put this in place. I would have issues with that. You know what I'm saying? It will look great and it will sound great, but then the practical part of it will not come off well. And then they'll say, well, look, CSWG and then it'll use us as a talking point to say, well, CSWG said, you know, to do this and this is what we're saying we're going to do and they're not doing it. So I think we do need to address it in terms of saying whether we're going to support or not, which like I said to me right now, I haven't seen anything that says that I want to support it, but I'm still doing more reading, but maybe it is something alternative, right? Maybe like a healing or something like that. And then maybe through this healing, the community creates something, you know, where they are the ones, you know, so our community, especially BIPOC community creates something that would serve as some type of community collaboration, but something separate from the police saying, okay, or us saying, okay, this is what it needs to look like. I would be more prone to supporting something like that than to kind of just regurgitating some things that would look great. But then in practice, it was not going to be put in practice the way that I would want it to be to protect, you know, BIPOC community. Thank you, Ms. Ferrerra, Ms. Owen, and then Ms. Pat. I think one thing that stood out to me when we started this work in the social service forums was the amount of young people who joined and told us about them being over surveilled in downtown. And I would love for this, for healing to happen, but also I know Ms. Moisten has brought it up, but for some sort of youth ambassador program, because all of this is affecting the young people the most, but not just an ambassador program, but an ambassador program that pays young people well and shows them that their opinion is valued and that their voice has power. Something like that to me would seem like a good alternative. Thank you, Ms. Allen, Ms. Pat. Yeah, so, you know, Mr. Ross, there might be some, you know, some stuff that might make sense. I think the challenge, you know, from what everybody have been saying is the implementation. So what I'm hesitant about, what I can speak for other people is, if CSW suggests something and if it's not implemented the way we want it to be, that's our credibility on the line, because APD will do what they want to do. The time manager will do what they want to do. So that's why I'm, you know, this is the topic that I'm most nervous about. So I'm going to speak to you guys. I've been dreading it and I said, you know, it will finally, will finally discuss it and face it. So I'm worried about my credibility in the community. I am, because people have told me they don't want to interact with the police in any circumstance, not cook out, not rope climbing, not nothing. Leave me alone. Leave me alone. I have, you know, I've been to many white spaces already. Just leave me alone. That's what people are telling me, to be left alone. Thank you, Ms. Pat, Mr. Vernon Jones. Well, it's certainly true that anything we recommend, you know, can be misapplied and misinterpreted and implemented badly. And we haven't shied away from recommending some things because we thought the recommendation itself would help move things in a better direction. And I certainly support the idea that BIPOC, people use that anybody should have the opportunity to be left alone while the police do not have to interact with the police. And at the same time, I do think there's something for us to say, given that we don't like the relationship that the police has with the community now, I think it would be useful for us to try to say something about what is the relationship we think ought to be there? What would a more respectful relationship, what would a relationship that responded to the leadership of community leaders, for instance? And, you know, I don't think that's gonna be easy and it can be misinterpreted, but I think there are ways to say what we think should be there, which could be written in a way that it would be clear when it was being implemented badly because we would express it in a way that could be measured. I would like people to read that chapter and I do think we should give up the term community policing even though it's used to crawl across the nation. I think we need something else that describes what it means to have a department which actually listens to its community, engages in collaborative problems all along with those BIPOC leaders who want to and leaves everybody else alone. And certainly, I think we need to write something explicitly. I mean, we don't yet have a clear recommendation about over-policing and over-surveillance. And I think we, it's not enough to say we just don't want over-policing. I think we've got to kind of spell out, you know, how that's gonna come about and how we want to make sure that that's stated in a way that can be measured and reported and the police department can be held accountable for not over-policing in the future. Thank you, Mr. Vernon Jones. And I'm sorry, but I have to run. Thank you, we'll see you next week. Thank you so much for arranging the agenda this way. You guys are great. Thank you. Bye bye. Yeah, okay. And so I know Mr. Vernon Jones just left, but I did want to say that I agree with both Mr. Vernon Jones and Ms. Pat, and that I think that we need to figure out a unique way to combine the two because I agree with Ms. Pat. There are some people who want to be left alone and the relationship, for some people, the relationship with the police department is not mendible. And I think that's okay to realize it's not mendible, but that for the people that it might be a possibility that healing does have to come first. You can't just sort of jump into new things and be hopeful that it's gonna work out when there has been so much damage and trauma. And so I think finding a unique way to combine those two things is what I'd be interested in seeing if we could figure out because that would be something that the community would need healing before we could even expect to be working on or mending that relationship. And then, so moving forward to the next agenda item, it was the resident oversight board. Also just because Mr. Vernon Jones cannot be with us right now, he has asked that we move this to next week's agenda and I think we all agree that that would be okay. So to just be thinking about the resident oversight board, it's membership because that was one of the things specifically in question, how many members, if we would want it to be five or seven, how many BIPOC, how many specifically black or African heritage people we would want to be on the committee, a stipend. And I think it might be helpful to review again the answer that we got from Mr. Bachlemann and the budget in terms of stipends that we would want and the consultant. So just to be thinking about those things for next week. Then moving on to the next agenda item, which is RFP phase two, I think that we had hoped to have an update in terms of a meeting with Mr. Bachlemann, but we do not have that update. Mr. Vernon Jones and I were able to meet with Mr. Delaney and get some of the options. And so I know I did bring up just a little while earlier some of my suggestions, but just asking the group a little bit more formally how we would like to move forward in terms of the RFP phase two with the information that we do have now. Ms. Pat. Well, if I may, if we all agreed that we will submit the standing committee draft in couple weeks and then submit the oversight board recommendation draft by the end of next month. And if we can look at the path B topics that we haven't picked yet, we may go to the next round and look at another three or two topics we want to pick after we submit the daughter too and see how we move like that. If Mr. Bachmann decide to agree to researcher that would be nice that what I'm trying to say is that personnel policy should be the last thing for us to pick. If we have enough time, we can try to look into it but let's look at the topics and we can decide as a group what other topics we want to handle. But to be in mind, we're talking about three months August, September, October, we're done. So it will be my suggestion. Does that make sense to people? Thank you, Ms. Pat. Ms. Moisten. Just clarity because I was gonna pull up the charge so that you could have an idea and that's what you're talking about, correct? Ms. Pat is the charge itself and then the list that's on there, okay. Depad B. Yeah. Thank you, Ms. Moisten. Thank you. Yeah, and so I'm also in favor of that idea, Ms. Pat. I did say that earlier that breaking it up in that way. I think it would be helpful for us to be able to focus on certain things instead of because right now we're sort of just basically touching a little bit on everything but to sort of zone in on certain things and focus on one thing at a time and sort of completing it, wrapping it up and moving it over so we can continue to move forward. I feel like that is a good strategy. And I guess that what I'm wondering though is that would you all like to send a specific request to Mr. Balkoman for a consultant again, like a formal written request asking for X amount of money for consulting services? Is that something that we would like to do? I know we also indicated discomfort with it coming from the ADK that was set aside for DEI work in the town and so that maybe we might be able to specify another option maybe from the list that Mr. Balkoman sent us or elsewhere for where the funds might be able to come from but that we send a specific request, is that something that the group would be interested in? Ms. Pat? I mean, we certainly can request that because what is viable from what has been discussed in past meetings is to get researcher to do the work and it has to be on that 10K. So if the two coaches, if you guys don't mind maybe request that we would like help. We would like a researcher to help us on certain topics for the under 10K type of thing. Is it something he wants, you know, he said would do for us? And where is that money coming from? We don't want it to come from the ADK but if it's going to come from ADK, definitely it will impact the oversight board and let me just say what has been in my mind since we started this meeting when I read the some managers responses is like, I feel the ADK is hitting one group of folks to another. You know, do we want researcher? Do you, you know, how much stipend? Do we want to get the oversight? What about his, you know, money for activities that will promote, you know, BIPOC stuff? I mean, it's like just for equity for the whole town, 80,000, it's just, it's like, yeah, I'm really struggling with that. When the town has money, more than $100,000 to fix the front of the town hall. We have had a pack that we have that and we have all these projects that we're doing in town and nobody questions that when it comes to stuff that would benefit BIPOC with, you know, nipple and diamond. I'm just like beyond first, you know, first lady. Thank you, Ms. Pat, Ms. Owen. And I just want to echo Ms. Pat's frustration and also I want to share with the group something that I've been thinking about all week because I've heard that because I've heard people talk about it is that instead of stipending resident oversight board members that we ask them to take money from a fund and I don't agree with that at all. If the town is going to make a commitment to eliminate barriers and look at policies and procedures that affect marginalized peoples, doing this is just creating another barrier for people. Who has the fund and who are we requesting the money from? I don't ask everybody on town council what they spend their money on and where that money goes. So why would we do the same for the resident oversight board? I know that Mr. Vernon Jones wanted to talk about that next meeting and I've heard that in community members emails in just a couple of times but I just really, I firmly disagree with that and I feel like it perpetuates this stigma toward people who are lower income and working to judge people how they spend their money and I don't think it's appropriate and I think anybody doing this type of work and the amount of work that we're asking the people on the resident oversight board to do, it's going to take a certain level of self-care. So I'm not going to, I mean, for me, I don't personally care how they spend their stipend and I don't think there should be one, like a wonder fund where people request money for their kids to be babysat or for takeout because I don't think that's right. And I was going to hold off on saying it but I just wanted to throw that out there. Thank you, Ms. Ellen, Ms. Pat. Thank you so much, Brianna for raising that. I would have, you know, it's one of the things I wanted to bring up today. How insulting that is. You know, the town council, they get stipend guaranteed, the school committee gets, and then it comes to oversight board, you have to request to get money for childcare. What kind of nonsense is that? That's not happening. It's not something says, WG, please do not support that. You know, it has to be stipend at greater point, not people applying. It's, you know, not just for low income. I look at it, you know, when anything impacts majority of BIPOL, the power of two people, they come up with their own rules. They come up with their own rules. If it's not going to impact them, they don't care. I will never support having a pot of money for people to apply for childcare. So if I need a therapist for self-care, then I'm going to tell the whole world that by the way, I need to apply for money for self-care. What kind of nonsense is that? We're not going to support that. No, that's white supremacy. We're not, no, no. When I read that, and also I want to bring up a resident that, you know, has been supportive of the work we're doing and send us some link and information. But the whole idea of having oversight board members to follow police officers and duty for 16 hours a year, I think that's ridiculous. That's not happening. CSW should not recommend that. You know, to have a BIPOL person be with a police officer, do people understand how traumatizing that would be? No, we're not doing that either. That's what I want to say. Thank you, Ms. Pat, Ms. Owen. Yeah, and I just want to just emphasize the people who are going to be on the resident oversight board. I imagine that there's going to be a huge fear of retaliation and for all of the people who decide to be on this board, they're going to be brave. So I think they should be stipend fairly for their time and what we're asking them to do. And I also disagree with the 16 hours. I don't think that's within reach for anybody that is working full-time. Thank you, Ms. Owen and Ms. Pat. I am also in agreement. And I think that I've been hearing some discussion about the fund. And I think when I was hearing people talk about it, that I was not understanding that they were talking about it as an alternative to offering stipends that I was thinking about it as a fund in addition to stipends, like you get your stipend, but if you needed childcare costs that you could then apply for it through the fund, not that you would have no stipend and you would have to apply for funds if you needed anything. And I'm in full agreement with everything that Ms. Pat and Brianna brought up in regards to that. And I think that's unacceptable. I believe in compensating people equitably for their work 100% of the time. I mean, unless you're volunteering for a charity, otherwise you should be compensated for your work. And this is a huge amount of work we're gonna be asking people to do. It's honestly not the safest thing because right there is the possibility of retaliation and we are trying to figure out what we can do to prevent that or to provide some safety to these people. But again, as we have seen, we don't have complete power over the people who are in power here, over the people who make decisions or over the APD and what they choose and decide to implement. And so I think we need to be aware of that, of what we're asking people to do and they need to be compensated for that. Ms. Ferreira. Yeah, I mean, I don't have to repeat what all of you said. I mean, one of the basic reasons why we were recommending stipends is to make sure that we get a diverse group of people that we get BIPOC people to come out and I think that a lot of times, people that speak, they speak from a certain privilege, from a certain, their base of whiteness and where they don't take into consideration that we want to do something, we wanna have the perspectives that don't get heard, perspectives that get shut out and the fact that as what you all said, in terms of this is going to be work that is not going to be pleasurable, right? Because you're gonna have to really look at things and make decisions that may, that will end up impacting the Amherst Police Department and people's possible livelihoods and things like that. So a lot of them are gonna be putting themselves at risk. So I don't wanna belabor the point, but just to say that, yes, I mean, we're all on the same page in terms of stipends, not funds and we need to make sure that people are appropriately compensated and I don't buy any of the other stuff that I read. Thank you, Ms. Ferreira. And so I thank you all for that input. I think that that's all important and that we can carry those thoughts and sentiments into our discussion next week when we discuss the actual amount for the stipend and we revisit that topic. For now, I would like to move to the last agenda item, which is recommendations from part one of the charge follow-up. I'm not quite sure which, if there was a topic specifically, we were looking to revisit, yes, Ms. Moisten. So in the packet, I included the town manager's budget report at the beginning and it was because that is in there is the schedule that has been presented to us at the meetings with staff and Brianna. So that's why that's in there and I can pull it up. But that is, I think, I didn't know Brianna, are you still going to speak on that or do you want to wait till next week? I just wanted to put it in the packet and update the group because I feel like we stop talking about the implementation since the first part of our charge. So to just let the group see the timeline that Mary Beth gave the implementation team. So the rest of the CSWG knows where we're at with Cress and gets to see the timeline. Because at the last implementation meeting, that the part that I stayed for, I did have to leave early. We really only went over the timeline. Can you see the timeline? Yes, Ms. Moisten. This is just a point of order. In the original packet that you received, I included his whole entire budget presentation like each slide. In this one, I took out the fluff that was at the beginning and some other things that weren't in regards to the schedule because I put in Brianna's the article that she sent that is lengthy. So it just looks a little different in case you question it, if you look at both of them. Thank you, Ms. Moisten. And I'm sorry that the scanned one I sent, you came out crazy. I got a scanner and I just learned how to use it. Ms. Pat. I just want to thank our coaches and also the town administrators that put the timeline thing. I was, I've been wondering where the group is at in terms of planning for the Crest program. However, I was kind of shocked to see that the town manager is only funding pork responders only. I alluded to that, I referenced that prior tonight. Why is he not able to fund eight responders as was recommended instructed by town councilors? I guess nobody can answer the question. That's something I would like to know from the implementation group, Y4 instead of eight. Thank you, Ms. Pat, Ms. Moisten. Oh, sorry, you're muted. Just to be clear so that it's not taken out of context or that I'm not, from what I understood that it's still eight and I'm part of that administrative group and it's eight. And he wrote in, I thought he wrote in this statement in the email that it was eight that he was budgeting for. Okay, but what is in this timeline thing is four. Oh, this is old though. I mean, I just pulled this from, I pulled this from his presentation that he emailed. So earlier, because the copy that Brianna had was distorted in mine, if I had scanned it would have been distorted. So I'm sorry about that. So that might have changed there. But this is not, this is not the updated current version. Is that what you're saying? No, this is the updated current schedule. Schedule, sorry. Right, that's why I took that other stuff out because- Oh, okay, that's what you're saying. Yeah, and I just left it to the stuff that was in regards to the responder program. I was just trying to find a copy that was legible, that would be legible for the group. Okay, I'm confused. What does it say eight responders here? No, I don't know that it says eight responders here, but that's what we've been discussing at the meetings. But what I saw is four somewhere. The very first packet that you sent earlier today. Right, but I think I've taken that part out. Got you, okay. Right, it shouldn't be four, it's eight. Okay. And that's why in the email it states eight. Okay, okay. Also, I'm not sure if this is helpful, Ms. Pat, but they did vote to fund up to, or a minimum of eight responders, but they never changed the funding level. So it's the same funding they were giving us for four responders. They didn't up the funding, the budget still passed. They committed to finding the funding for a minimum of eight. So, because your question was about the funding. Yeah, the funding. So the funding didn't change, but they did pass the commitment to finding it, well, no, a minimum. So sorry, that was the actual change. At first it was up to eight. Now it's a minimum of eight. But the funding level that was provided to us in the budget has not changed from the four. So I'm just gonna reshare his email for a second. Okay, thank you. And then it's here, it's this section. And hopefully that'll give clarity. I don't wanna... Can somebody read it out? Yes. Okay, thank you. Make it bigger too. I can't see, yeah. So the question was, where do you anticipate the funds for Crest coming from? And the answer was funding will not be an obstacle to getting the community responder program up and running. The town council has established an aggressive timeline for launch based on the CSWG's work. And we will be working hard to meet that deadline. For operating costs, we will be identifying sources for funds for at least eight responders, a director and an administrative support position. For one time or startup expenditures, we have earmarked 250K of ARPA funds to support the establishment of the community responder program. We are also applying to the state for a grant that can help with these costs. In addition, the town will be allocating significant amount of staff time to developing the program over the next six months. Another option is that we could provide some mental health programming that could also be funded from cannabis impact fees. The use of these funds will be a topic we will discuss in the fall with the council. Gotcha, okay. I see that. Thank you, Ms. Moisten. You're welcome. Okay. Okay, yes. And so, sorry, just to go back. Yes, Ms. Ferreira. Just wanted to ask, so how many implementation meetings have representatives, our representatives been at, do we know? There's only been one. Oh, there's only been one so far. And Alicia and I met separately with Mary Beth just as an introduction meeting to learn about her background. But yeah, just that. We were supposed to have one this morning. Really, however, it was rescheduled to next week, Rihanna, or two weeks out. Next Thursday, yeah. It was last minute rescheduled. So we were not able to meet this morning. Gotcha. Yeah. I mean, the only reason why I'm asking is that, yeah, I think we still need to obviously, keep the pressure on that end too, to make sure that what they said they were gonna do, they do do. In terms of the timeline, I know that Mr. Bachman was talking about it being aggressive, but for us, we wanted it kind of in place sooner rather than later, because then how are they gonna evaluate it to be able to then give money for the next fiscal year, which is still a concern of mine. Because if it's taking this long to kind of put it in place, how are you then going to adequately fund it for the next fiscal year and beyond? So that's still something that we need to kind of talk about when we're in those implementation meetings. Yes. Thank you, Ms. Ferrara. And I just wanted to share that. That is also a concern that I have. I'm a little bit worried about ongoing funding and where our funding is actually coming from because that is something we have yet to get answers to. And so I'm quite worried about the stability of the program moving forward since we haven't even received answers as to where our funds will be coming from for this first round. So I do share those concerns. And I think Brianna and I are doing our best to keep those at the forefront when meeting with the implementation team. And hopefully we'll be able to start working on things next week. Ms. Owen and Ms. Pat. I also think it's important that we just report back to the group after our implementation meetings because I have heard from community members that they're just worried about the Cres program being developed behind closed doors without them being able to get feedback and whatnot. So I thought putting this in the packet would be one step so the community feels more connected and knows what's going on and knows that we haven't stopped applying pressure and we haven't stopped the momentum. Thank you, Ms. Owen and Ms. Pat. So that's what I was going to say. First of all, thank you for sharing, making sure that it's in the packet. I think some residents will really like to be involved in the planning stage. Actually, there was a resident who has reached out to town councilors, to the co-chairs myself and had met once and want to continue ongoing discussion about implementation of Cres. I basically suggested for that particular individual to reach out to town manager, to see how resident who wants to be involved could be included or even organizations. In looking at the timeline, it did say that social services organizations will be involved at some point, which is very encouraging because people are paying attention and there are people who want to get involved and I think the town manager should make it so that anybody who wants to give input will have an avenue to do so rather than overextending our co-chairs. I just want to thank Breanna and Alicia who are all over the place doing so many meetings and getting so many emails and responding to so many people. That's a lot for them. So I was trying to see if that small group, if that is a way they can channel their time towards this implementation committee group to send feedback to them. It would be a lot easier and I would be one less thing for the co-chairs to be involved with. And I'm not speaking for Breanna and Alicia, but I wasn't going to the attending additional meetings about implementation of Cress when I will feel it's duplicative. It's good to have table, to sit on the same table where the decision is being made by on the higher level on the town. Did I present that correctly, Breanna and Alicia? So like Survival Center would like to get involved at some point. So yeah, people are not trusting the Cress program even though we tried the best we can, but we're still hearing that people will not be calling Cress dispatchers. Some people have it in their head that Cress will eventually become another APB. So we have a lot of work to do in terms of messaging basically to get people comfortable to be able to call for help when the Cress program comes to play. And so one of the ways to do that is to allow residents to get involved in their planning. Right now it's very top-handed with administration and with our advocacy, they were able to include the coaches. But community involvement has not started yet and we're running out of time. One more thing I noticed with the timeline is being an employer myself that is getting very difficult to recruit employees and it doesn't seem that it's enough time to recruit responders. I think it's something that these groups should think about push it back a little bit if they want to have staffing in place by February as instructed by town council. That's only one of the things that jump up to me like, oh my goodness, yeah. Employers are really struggling to hire. Thank you, Miss Pat. I think it's helpful to hear the feedback from you all so that Brianna and I can just have things that we're focusing on and at the forefront of our minds when we do go into these implementation meetings and so that we can make sure we're keeping the voice of the entire CSWG alive inside of those meetings. And I do like Brianna's idea of reporting back to you all after every meeting because I hope to present to them Miss Pat's idea of having the community be involved. I'm not sure if that's something they're going to be interested in. And so that continuing to make it as transparent as possible I think is a goal that we have. Miss Moison and then Miss Ferreira. I was gonna say, I don't know if it would be helpful or not to have a forum for it. Or not, because then that could be big and harder to track everything as opposed to having individuals sitting at the table. I'm not quite sure what it looks like. What is it being asked when asking for the community to have their input? I think the community's input is crucial. I just don't know if that means sitting at the actual table at that time or having a forum. So I was just trying to figure out what that might look like. Does that make sense? I don't know. Yeah, thank you Miss Moison. Miss Owen. Yeah, I think the one reason why I'm for another social forum or a social services forum is just because I wanna make sure that like all of the different social service agencies and community members who are community leaders are like at the decision table rather than meeting with myself or Alisha and then we report back because I don't wanna miss something and or misspeak on something that they say. And I wanna make sure that their voice is heard at the decision-making table. So, but I do see what you're saying. So, you guys didn't... So, and when we go to the next meeting I would say I would bring that up and then we could just announce it in multiple different ways that we could do it. We probably need a bigger space, but... I think that would be the best next step just because a community member has reached out to me and this individual has done so much community organizing and I have met with them before and I found the meeting really powerful and I just wanna make sure that they can be a part of this because I think individuals like this being a part of it is how the community is gonna trust Chris. So, also how we empower our community so it's like a full and get them involved. So, yep. Okay. Thank you, Miss Ellen. Miss Ferrara, did you also have a hand up? No, I mean just to say that, you know let's just keep on pushing even if they decide to not follow what we recommend or what we suggest, just keep bringing it up and keep documenting. That's what we need to do at this point. Thank you, Miss Ferrara. Miss Pat? I think for this particular individual I think public forum will not be enough for this person. This person really, yeah. I was the one who suggested to include the coaches as well because she was looking out to me alone. I'm like, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah. And, you know, at some point I had to like say this is like, you know, overextending our coaches. We need to find a way for this person who really, really wants to get involved to have a seat, you know, on the table with the administrators who are mostly white folks. To share what, you know, from some BIPOC perspective. I think at some point this group, implementation group show perhaps, you know, send email to different organizations and have some sort of like announcement to have, you know, a gathering, a meeting. But this person wants to be involved in everything basically and we should be able to empower this person to do that because she brings a unique perspective that white folks might not have. So, yeah, just one public comment will not be enough for her, I think. Am I correct with that, Alicia and Brianna? I think, yeah. I agree with you, Ms. Pat. And I also just want to say that she's done a lot to mobilize different people so that the CSFUG can hear different voices and groups through myself and Alicia. And she has been sending a lot of resources and she's done a lot of research and has been very happy and helpful in sharing of information and resources. And so I think that this person is not only like willing but is able and is very knowledgeable and I think would be an asset and I think it would be a mistake to not invite her to the table. Yeah. Okay. So, I think that, so that was the last item on the agenda for tonight and I want to move into upcoming events. If there are any events coming up that people would like to announce at this time? Ms. Ellen? Next week, Marcy Sklow from the League of Women's Voters reached out to me and she said next week there's going to be a networking event. Let me pull it up just so I don't mess up the wording but it's happening from seven to nine. So I don't know if a group member wants to go after I'm willing to leave early and go on behalf of the group but I think somebody from the CSWG should be there. Sorry, Brianna. So I brought this up on your behalf during member supports just because I had the note from you for it. Okay. So I did that for next week if we could have a consolidated agenda just touching on the most crucial things that we're going to look into that we would all like to attend and try to have our meeting end by seven and Ms. Moisten agreed to check in to see whether or not we would have to also post that as a meeting for our group since we will all be there and that if so, she will do that for us as well. Okay, awesome. I'm sorry I'm late everyone. Thank you. We understand, yeah. So I believe our para educators they're having a rally on Saturday from 10 to 12 noon. Those are some of the most hardworking employees of the school system and we need to support them and they deserve respect and livable wage. Yeah, I wouldn't be there because I have other commitments but people who know me know me very well that I may be supporters of our hardworking for our educators. So. Thank you Ms. Pat, Ms. Ferreira. For Ms. Pat, just to, I only heard like the time and what, but do you have any specifics in terms of what's going to be going on? Are they having speeches, things like that, you know? Probably, I think that's what they're probably doing. Maybe speeches, I think, yeah. Yeah, I'm going to try to go fight. Oh, that's good, that's good. That means a lot, yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Ms. Ferreira. And then I would like to talk about the next meeting date, which will be next Thursday at 5.30. And I think the group agreed though that we were going to try to cut the meeting short to end at 7 p.m. So that we all might attend the League of Women Voters event. Ms. Moyston. So I am on, I'm going away this week this week that carries over into next week. But the following week too, it's the same thing. And when I get back, it will already, I won't come back till Thursday, like Wednesday and Thursday. So I'll be here for the meeting, but I need the agenda items to be able to post. We can always revise them if we have additional things. But if we, if you guys have kind of a sense of like what our standard items will be, then I can post those like tomorrow and have the clerk post them and they can just be there and then I can revise them as needed. Because one of those weekends, I'd like to not have to be responsible for any work. But yeah. Absolutely. Ms. Pat. I mean, based on our meetings tonight, we can have maybe like two or three agendas because it's going to be a very short meeting, public comment. Are we even going to have any member report? Do we have enough time to do that next week? I don't know about you all, but I think that we should just, because we still need time to do research. And I think we're all working on things. The only thing that we would want to report back on would be the draft of the standing committee charge. And the oversight. And the rest of the board membership stipend and consultants, I think those should be our. Do you want all three of the listed items that I had under there to continue through? So the stipend, the membership, and- And there was another one. I will say yes, those three. I think it would be nice if we can come up with topics we want to work on before next week. But I don't think we'll have enough time to choose topics at the next meeting. From Pat B. Yeah, it would be good for us to pick two topics we can work on since we're finishing up the standing committee draft and also the oversight board, but we didn't pick any two topics today. Co-Chairs, what do you want to do? I mean, we could revisit the questions submitted by Mr. Vernon Jones. I don't know if there will be much of a follow-up. We did have a discussion on that, but we could do some more research or just report back in terms of if there's anything else we have in regards to that. I don't know if we'll have time to get to all of those things. I think that if we're having a shortened meeting for next week that we might be limited to those topics. So I think we should leave the community policing for next week. I did get a chance to look at one of the readings, but I didn't read all of it. Just so everyone has a chance to look over it. And I said I would summarize it and I didn't, I didn't have time. And you said community policing for next week. Do you mean the 29th or the week after? A week after. So the, what is that, the fifth? Yes. Okay. That will give people some time to catch up. Is that okay with you, Brianna? Am I mute? Okay, great. And then are there any other topics that the chair did not reasonably anticipate 48 hours in advance of this meeting that anyone would like to bring to the floor at this time? Okay. So with all of our business being complete tonight, I would like to call this meeting adjourned. Yay. Thank you everybody. Have a good night, everyone. Thank you so much. Have a good vacation, Jennifer. Thank you. Have a good vacation. Well, thank you. Oh, yeah. Enjoy. Don't think about CSWG, okay? Okay.