 Well, the social, economic, rights and accountability project, CERAP has gone to court to seek for an order of mandamus to direct and compel the Senate President, Ghoswila Kwebio, and Speaker of the House of Reps, Tajidin, Abbas to review and reduce the 40 billion Naira budgeted for 465 SUVs and bulletproof cars for their members. Well, CERAP has just joined us and their Deputy Director, Mr. Kolawale Oluwadare, is our guest. Good morning to you, Mr. Kolawale. Good morning. So give us details of this case. Thank you very much. These are the opportunity turned out to be one of another public interest litigation that CERAP has to undertake because the order advocacy over Charles had failed. And so before we go to court, we've written to the National Assembly, particularly the leadership of the both houses of the National Assembly. When the news broke of what we would not have been turned, the palliative funds have been paid to the National Assembly and some of the palliative are 70 billion, which of course denied. And the plan of the National Assembly to budget another 40 billion left to buy vehicles for themselves. So people have turned it into something, so people have turned it into bulletproof cars. But whatever that is, the amount of money spent on what is rather not important in the scheme of things is the basis of going to court for CERAP. And because that has failed, we are going to court to enforce the right of Nigerians in this instance, which is why it is public interest litigation. To compare the leadership of National Assembly and engage the National Assembly as a whole to do the right thing. But what is the basis, the legal basis of this within the context of the laws? Can we say this budgetary allocation, this proposed spending, fits into the realities of economic realities that this time, can we say that the actions of all the members of the National Assembly in leadership and we say it conforms to the oath of office they have taken to use power and to for the better interest and the welfare of Nigerians. Can we also say that these actions, it doesn't conflict with the code of conduct in the constitution. That says that their personal interest must not conflict with their study duties to members of their constituents. And that is why we remain caught. Asking the court in this instance to rule the framework of the Nigerian public and to prevent the spending, particularly to this time, we need to understand that this came by way of supplementary appropriation in the present and before the National Assembly last month. And so for the court to propel members of National Assembly, you reject that proposed spending that is the supplementary appropriation with a pass by the way that's become an act and they can always refocus and repeal it and amend it to ensure that these more funds are redirected to all the critical areas in Nigeria, particularly to the health sector and medication, particularly to take care of the growing up of school children which as of this year extends to 20 million children. That is why we are caught. Well some Nigerians will say that if you even want to go push this to reflect the economic situation in the country, you would have outrightly said to them, you know what, don't even buy any of these vehicles at all. Channel all the money to solving the problems that you just highlighted. What do they need the vehicles for? Why don't they use their own money? That's part of the facts that we've used to support our case before the court. And we notice this as Nigerians too, that this is a precedent for them. This happens every legislative side. And then it brings the question which I think even spans beyond the four corners of the country. For Nigerians to ask its critical question, what happened to the cars that were bought by the previous National Assembly and the ones before that, way back to 1999? How were these cars procured? What are the basis of the use of this case? Was the procurement act for load, was there cost-benefit analysis, and what is the benefit of these cars in the lightest scheme of things, are those that have the anormic abilities and then reflect on socioeconomic problems of the average Nigerian? And that is what we've seen happen time and time again. Which is why these kinds of discussions, which of course is outside the purview of the law in the courtroom, means that every Nigerian was being interested, and not only of conversations, but of textiles, to old members, public officers in response, particularly in this instance, members of the National Assembly, who must represent all their constituents within Nigeria. These questions need to be asked. Why are you purchasing these vehicles? What happened to the previous vehicles? Then what is this made necessary, particularly given the high cost of living, the high rate of unemployment, occasioned by the number of subsidy and non-associated events that we've seen in the past few months of this administration? So it is not only the good advocacy in this instance, it is advocacy that it directed Nigerian citizens themselves as part of that democratic process towards those in political office, whether they elected or appointed to account. The Senate president said something, it was funny to me, but I don't understand the workings of the National Assembly or government people, as we put it. He said that when they came, the Tent Assembly came, they didn't have tools to work with. There were no computers, he mentioned computers, and I was wondering why they would have to change computers every cycle. And then he said, as senators, to do their oversight functions, they cannot use KK to do their oversight functions. Those were his words. We cannot use KK to do, KK and APEP to do our oversight functions. So I don't know how that struck you, even aside from the fact that you are having a case with them, but I don't know how that struck you, that computers will have to be changed after every cycle, and then they cannot use KK. Are you giving them alternatives in this, your suit, or you're just saying, stop it, and then do something else? First and foremost, of course, I am an interior, a universe country, and so that means that issues like these, whether I am a legal practitioner or not, or whether we're going to cut through to enforce the right of the Nigerians at all, the basis of that actually itself is interest of the Nigerians, and of course, mine is part of that. And so it is rather worrisome. And again, but it's not totally unexpected. He will follow the trend of things since 1999, that are various mechanisms that have been put in place to ensure that these transverses and accountability have been floated time over time, and the impunity just makes it that people do not get points for it. But these again raised critical questions, which really one need not be technical in knowing the aspects of covenants or how the workings of the nation as they need to ask these simple questions. Who purchased the computers? Which computers did the previous national assembly use? Who purchased those computers? Do they belong to those individuals? Or are they, as it were, the belongings of the national assembly? And so what happened to the previous computers, or whatever tools that the law makers require to do their job? And then what are the steps been taken to ensure that, if asked, and I strongly suspect that individuals, the previous members of the national assembly had committed acts of malfeasance in not being able to account for these things, they are protocol. Those are the pertinent questions we should ask. And again, this leads to another, that is the budgetary allocations of the national assembly itself. Even the role of the national assembly as their statutory role and powers over the appropriation bill brought to them before them by the assembly taking it. The national assembly also has some appropriated to it, and so raises the question, who will police the national assembly's instance? Do they have that powers, as it were, to, with that prejudice, in fairness and equity, to refute their project and make sure that it is fair and negative in these circumstances? And it's against the backdrop of knowing that late last year, when the appropriation bill was being considered, the national assembly increased its own statutory allocation, bringing it up to $220 billion there. Questions set up at these pertinent questions at that time, and this has led us to where we are presently. So, all in all, it is the failure of those transparency and accountability mechanisms that creates rooms and avenues for these kind of things, where members of the national assembly, community members, we say, they do not have computers. But those were there before, because you used a lot of those, including computers, and those questions must be asked, which again leads to the usual, the Auditor General of the Federation for instance, who audits at federal government parameters. And he has reported time after time about billions of years of implementation and not being accounted for. Perhaps this is one of those instances where computers were brought, tools were brought to make sure the national assembly is able to function enough, they cannot be found. And then, the use of the money we are spending to buy an understanding of the tools for this national assembly again, which they might not be able to account for at the end of the period. And then we keep doing that. It brings in the call of governments unnecessarily. And there are aspects of corruption in this instance, IDSA. And in response to what you said about whether we give them or give them alternatives in the future. Yes, we have developed that value of a letter that we've written to the national assembly, and even in the suit as well. We have suggested that the UNICEF is displaying an active party government, holding government accountable, and doing what we call advisory opinions to public offices. That these funds should be channeled to two critical areas. We have mentioned health and education, particularly education, giving the rising number out of part of school children. And what that means for us as a nation is sort of growing the security and even the economy of Nigeria. And that is what we put national assembly really has the interest of engineers at that. It's very simple. They cut that same power in state as it were to fund primary school education. So it is not a matter of lack of legal framework. The U-Bett has provided clearly that not less than 1% of the funds will be allocated to fund primary school education across Nigeria. But what we see year after year is that the minimum threshold is what is allocated, one on set. Whereas the loss is not less than 1%. It means it can't be more. And that is what the national assembly is doing. At least this $110 million will go in long term. Even if it is allocated to U-Bett for instance to ensure also that states provide their catapult funding as the law provides that these out of school children can reduce practically and then defend the same in the short term and then in the long term. And that's one of the options we're giving them for the cost. And I would struggle to see how the cost will not side with the Nigerian people in this instance, growing what the growing number of out of school children potential Nigeria, both in the short term and in the long run. On the figure presently stands at $20 million and is still growing. All right. As you're looking at all of these trying to reduce the cost of governance, especially as it concerns the national assembly and reducing their budget by 110 billion Naira. Have you also looked at the fact that just not long before this 10th assembly was inaugurated, the FCDA disclosed to us that 19 billion Naira has been spent to renovate the two chambers of the national assembly. These facts, when one considers the totality of these facts, both those are public domain and the ones that come to life continuously. But it doesn't stand to reason. It defies the logic itself. And don't forget, Serap is a court challenging the allocation of more than 30 billion Naira to renovate the national assembly. That was three years ago. And the matter is still pending in court. And so we're talking of another 19 billion Naira that you mentioned. Who oversees the allocation and the expenditure of these forms that goes back to the discussion with that earlier about the needs to make the national assembly transparent and accountable in the process of allocation of funds then subsequently expenditure. If we have missed the opportunity to ensure that the national assembly is attentive at the process of allocation of funds, that is when the approbation fee is being considered, then it might be to hold them responsible at the point of expenditure. But it doesn't mean it is not to be moved because the procurement act itself of course is binding on the national assembly as a public institution creates rigid and strict guidelines as to how funds are disposed and spent by all public institutions including the national assembly. But in this instance, national assembly got over 200 billion 20 and three points. In the 20 and two approbations passed about a week and he increased it to get to that amount. And now there is also a supplementary approbation in which they are looking to examine as spaghetti whatever that means 40 billion to procure vehicles and we do not even have the knowledge of the fact of how much was allocated to national assembly in the supplementary approbation act. Mind people, mind you. And so that again speaks to the issue of this holiday token and the allowance that came to light just last week. Where are those funds coming from? Who are looking at this fund to the national assembly? See, we have become the budget as it were. It is the matter of law. It gives it some sort of legality but that doesn't make it legal because even the approbation can't be repealed and reviewed which is why we have supplementary approbation. Which case, which engineers must compel them to do in this instance to review the approbation presently the purchase as it were and make sure that the cost of governance including the conditions of national assembly and other areas including the precedence is reduced drastically. And we are looking at to where they are needed the most. And I'd like to give you another short instance of where these fundings could be the retention, the health center. The National Health Act is very clear these provisions that section of the provides that not less than 1% will be allocated to the National Health Act and the National Health Act provides clearly how those funds are meant to be spent 50 percent, 20 percent and most of those spending goes to primary health care including record and expenditure for doctors in the villages and in those remote areas. What the government has done over time including in 2020 at the height of COVID is just to obey the year minimum just 1%. Why not 5% why not 50% keeping the nature of the deployment conditions of wired facilities both at the primary the secondary and even the tertiary health health institutions that again shows that the National Assembly and I guess even the executive does not understand the importance of these critical sectors and the welfare of their kids. It would appear and all facts are about this and it's public institutions in this instance the National Assembly appears to faithful themselves look at themselves better than the engineers just created against the order of office they took and the code of order of public officers that is in construction and binding of all of them as public offices. All right, before you go let me ask you the last time you were here you we talked about the victory you got from the court asking this administration to give account of how their batchal loot recovered have been spent so far. Have they responded? Unfortunately we have not gotten any kind of formal response from the the government that is from the office of the president the president himself it is unfortunate that orders of courts will be disobeyed with impunity and and the and the student demerits of citizens of Nigeria it is unfortunate but it is not surprising when one when you look at the president that means sometimes in this country where the rule of law is really not a dire thing orders of courts are nearly obeyed but the ISCOP it starts from the IS office in the lamp the office of the president but when they are political judgments that affect the right of either political political parties or individual politicians of course they get obeyed at the speed of light and that doesn't help democracy at all democracy goes beyond politics going to the polls including everything that needs to cast in a ballot and those who subsequently get elected and so on in the public office it's just one part of the democratic process governance itself is an act of democracy and that governance has several principles including the rule of the principle of rule of law separation of powers and all that and disobeying an order of courts really think anyone needs to be educated on this at least not those in public office it's not the president to know that orders of court will be obeyed because of him because of the citizens but because of the collective welfare of the endurance to ensure that instability there is structure and that is what the rule of law in this is and that is what it brings unfortunately so Mr. Kala Wale Mr. Kala Wale my last question to you because of time is what confidence do you have with these cases that you are taking to court and the ones you have in court we believe in the judicial and I've often said this that as lawyers and as a legal advocacy organization you believe in the rule of law even if those in public office solve it do not believe in the rule of law upon which they even wrote to power we believe in the rule of law and we believe in the judicial and we believe in the judicial process which is why we do what we do going to court as a right they're granted by the constitution section 6 of the constitution to ventilate our group and to sign a case of siding with the Nigerians on many occasions spread that this syrup as more than that in Georgia against the freedom of public execution that are yet to be obeyed and so we believe in the court we do what is right by it again we do it in this instance because they've done so many times before and because it is just what the law says the law is clear in this sense so we believe that and we believe that ultimately we will get a job okay I hope prayers have been sent to your inbox and you can take your inbox okay thank you for the talking thank you so much well it's Kola Wallyalua Dari Serab's deputy director has joined us to give us details of the case they've taken to court against the senate president and the speaker of the House of Raps thank you so much for your time this morning thank you very much you're still watching the breakfast it's time for us to take a little break and come back with our second heart topic stay with us