 Hey, what's going on everybody? Welcome, welcome, welcome to the Red Man Group Live from Warsaw, Poland. This is being brought to you by Tactical Soap Guys. If you want to get a few inches on your ya-mean, go ahead and go to www.TacticalSoap.com. Also, guys, get your crayons out. This is also being brought to you by the next 21 convention that is going to be hailed in Orlando, Florida, October 24th through the 27th. For more information, go to the 21convention.org. Now we're here, we're here in Poland with great men, great people here, but let me tell y'all something. Since July 2007, Anthony Dream Johnson had a dream, and since then he has been working his ass off to make that dream come true. Giving you the best of the best as panelists, giving you the best of the best as far as content, giving you the best of the best as treating you like not guests, but family. So we just want to say thank you to Anthony for having us here and doing what he's doing because you know what? He's a hard-working motherfucking man, and I can't say motherfucking, but I'm going to say it this time. All right. So what do we like to do before we even get into today's topic and everything? I want to go around and let you introduce, not me introduce, I want everyone to go around and introduce themselves to everybody. So if you haven't heard these guys or never met these guys unless you're living on Planet Mars or something, you should know them. But Socrates, why don't you start off and let them know that. Oh, you let that cat out of the bag. Yeah, I'm sorry. Oh, take two. I'm Socrates with Manion Up Smart. I run a relationship blog and I help people navigate today's sexual marketplace. And I'm also a very strong and active vocal, vocal advocate for fathers and fatherhood. Richard Nicolai, I blog at FreeTheAnimal.com. This is my fourth time at this convention as a speaker and taking nothing away from the previous. It has been great. I love this country, Poland, Warsaw, the people, everything, every inch of it. So that's it. All right, my name is Jack Donovan. I'm the author of The Way of Men, a book about defining masculinity in a universal sense. I'm also the author of a book called Becoming a Barbarian and Becoming a More Complete Beast. You can find me online at Start the World on Instagram. I'm George Bruno from georgebruno.com. I cut hair as a trade. I'm a content creator all the other time. And to quote my 22 year old daughter behind every great woman, there is a great father. And I like to consider myself a father to many who I don't speak to everyone. I don't claim to speak to everyone, but those who receive help and wisdom from me. I'm happy that you are my adopted and surrogate sons and daughters. Thank you. I'm Kero San Giorgio. I'm probably the top selling survivalist author in Europe. And I've had 20 years in the IT industry and international development of markets, father of four, married still, and very happy to be my first time here at the 21st Convention. I'm going to say that I'm very, very happy to have been here. I'm very glad that you invited me. And I would have paid to come here because it was really, really great. I've been thrown author of The Night Laws and host of darktriadman.com. I've been thrown.com. It's a pleasure and honor to be here with all of you, and especially to be a part of what Anthony Johnson has so single-mindedly and powerfully put together over the last 15 years. It's an astonishing thing to be a part of. I want to make sure all of you are aware of the opportunity coming in October and Orlando to be a part of it. And myself, I'm Steve, the Dean Williams from demandmindset.com. I'm also lucky enough to have shows on the Red Men group. We have the Red Pill Mindset, myself and Dunn the Sharp, the Red Bill, the Red Man, the Red Live, Red Man Live, I'm totally twisted. Thank you. Now, let's get into it. Let's get into it. Now, before we get into our topic, you know, Anthony is always cool and everything. You know, we was getting ready, guys. I'm, you know, I'm fronting him right now because he's about to talk some yak about the manuscript which we're going to get into. And Anthony gave me a little bit of bad news that I want to discuss with the panel. Now, we know there's going to be a woman 007, but we just got news straight from Anthony Dream Johnson that we are going to have a female Thor Socrates. What say you on that, sir? I am absolutely all fucking for this. I'm going to be taking my entire family the entire goddamn day. I can't wait to see a woman pick up the hammer of feminism and take it to the world and smash the living shit out of civilization, destroy humanity and masculinity in a process. And at the end of the movie, see her cat circling her in her apartment like shark did the life raps at the Indianapolis. As she sits there drinking cheap box wine. That is a movie I'm going to want to pay to see again and again and again. I'm feeling better. They call it game of Thor. Well, I think he took, I think he stole all the thunder on that one. So let me just address the 007 thing and I just, I think, I think they ought to rename it as 00 Sammich. Well, I mean, you know, Thor in the Marvel sense is just a just a comic book hero. So it's a story for children and it's never been historically accurate to the actual figure of Thor. Who has archetypes that have gone back, you know, thousands of years. So, you know, if they want to make everything into a joke, then they can do that and continue their clown world. I just say why? Why, what is the purpose of it? Is it is somebody trying to even the score? Well, at least we haven't had Dakota Fanning say Conan the Barbarian yet. I think a lot of it has to do with, especially with Hollywood in the media, they have the ability to create imagery, so to speak. And they've moved from entertainment into ideological underpinning. It's not about entertaining so much as it is about reinforcing their own world deal, you see. What's all great and fun until society collapses and the portrayal of iconic characters like Thor or James Bond or so on with ridiculous casting choices is simply one way to destroy attachments to the existing culture. My thing is for the Bond, why don't they just make her double o-tan packs or something and leave the guy stuff to the guys, you know? You know, I'm so used to, I'm from the old school, I remember the six million dollar man, they never took the six million dollar man away from us, they gave us the bionic woman, but they also allowed the bionic woman to work with the bionic man in several programs. Also, I used to watch a cartoon called He Man and they didn't get rid of He Man, they created She-Ra that was riding with He Man. So for me, I just think real quick when it comes to young men, they need some sense of guidance, if you're coming from a single parent home or if dad is there and dad is not there, sometimes the things on TV that young guys see kind of guides their thinking and we need more programs pushed and more movies and shows pushed towards manhood than taken away from boys. But that, with that being said, what we want to do is talk about right now is the manosphere offline and online, where it's been, where it's at and where it's going. Socrates? I'll tell you what, I'll jump with where it's going. There's been a lot of kind of conflict and strife as of recently, some disturbances and I think a lot of that is due with the introspection of the kind of the community on a whole and I know that that's a healthy thing when individuals do it, reconstitute themselves periodically, particularly as you go through a life trajectory age. And I think the manosphere is going through that right now as we approach, you know, a multiple decade approach on this and what we're seeing then is an event held in Warsaw, Poland specifically chosen because of what Warsaw specifically means or meant in the last 20th century and through this one. Warsaw more than any other city has gone through more strife to almost complete utter destruction, repeated crisis events one right after another after another and after another and historically the people in lands of Poland have always been central roads through conference one way or another and this is a people that understood absolutely what mattered in life and focused in on that. And in many ways after coming out of a convention here where we have a lot of father-centric material, we have a lot of interest in that. We're going to be having a home coming in October. I mean we're leaving here and we'll be going home. I'm looking forward to that personally. I'll miss Warsaw dearly but there's something to be said about coming home to the stage, coming back to Orlando where we do this a lot, where we're located headquarters and having another very very large event in October and so I know the manosphere is heading there in October. I'm looking forward to being part of that and seeing all of you admitted panelists here and seeing that grow and seeing what new insights come out in the next few months and I know it's going to be fast of yours because that's the world in which we're operating right now but I think the issues we'll be discussing will be timeless. So the Anthony throughout all of the all of his 21 events has made a habit since day one of bringing in stuff that's not really manosphere related and I'm one of those guys. My first time was speaking about the paleo diet. The second time was about politics and philosophy and the third time was about cryptocurrency. So this my presentation was the history and cancer of feminism. So the first time I had an opportunity to actually speak to something that's near and dear to the movement itself and I got to tell you know Socrates just spoke and I got to tell you that he was the first presentation of the first day when I got here and on the heels of the last event which was the patriarch event and on the heels of the whole make woman great again and Anthony's going to do a woman's conference I think called 22 con if I'm not mistaken. All these things come together and I like just got supercharged for my own and this goes back a few months when Anthony invited me to come I said you know for the first time I get to actually speak not on the periphery and it's and I mentioned it in my presentation about how inspired his presentation how inspiring his presentation was for me in the sense that I see this maturing of the whole movement so that and Anthony and at all is starting to take heat for that from a lot of the people in there which I said this shows how much this movement is needed and how much it needs to mature and how much it needs to expose the little girl lancers out there you know the pussy boys who can't say hey should have all you know and and and we can't all we can't just always be something for guys to go you know 18 to 25 year olds to go get their willies there's got there's people who need guidance who want to find a good women who want to get married they want to have children they want to create a patriarchal legacy yes you know there there's so many things in the world so many programs government programs narratives who obviously they're giving the the hammer for to women there's so many things out there to empower women and empower young girls and encourage them that they have girl power and can defeat like 20 men in battle and I think it's really important that there is something that reaches out to men helps men become better and that's I looked at my own life mission over the past few years and I decided that that's my mission to help men make themselves better and so I'm happy to contribute to anything that serves that goal and this conference definitely serves that goal and whether it's guys learning how to get laid and people say that that's an old subject but it's an evergreen market there are new 18 year olds every year that need to figure some figure some things out and learn about the you know the lies that they've been told about women all their lives to you know guys who want to start families and so anything that's positive and helps men find their own place in this crazy mixed up world is great by me as a father of three 22 20 and 16 I never really knew there was an issue traditional conservative guy which has been called trad con and I guess that is a an insult in the man a sphere insult me then that's fine I'm a traditional conservative guy and proud of it I don't need to leave there in order to to fit in but I knew there was problems not from raising a daughter but by raising sons and I'll give you three examples taking my son who's now 20 when he was 10 taking him to a what was a father and son breakfast at his elementary school and it was called a I mean I went to things like father and son weekends father and son sports father and son camp this was a father-like figure and son breakfast I'm like what the hell is a father-like figure and there was a lot of sexual gender blurring that morning at that breakfast and I thought oh god what have we come to and it was only through my son's education that I noticed something was up second thing dad there's this boy that keeps cutting in front of me in the lunch line pushes me aside and stands in front of me and everybody laughs I said next time he doesn't punch him in the nose he said what I said just punch him in the nose real fast just just pop pop he won't expect it he will stop he's not gonna fight he goes but I'll get in trouble I said you'll get in trouble I said listen if you do it I will go to the principal and I will have to deal with the principal not you and that was foreign to him I did that when I was in school and that young man that I would I was the nerd carrying the books and the guy would come up and push my books and they go flying down the hallway and papers flying all over the place and I turned around once and just popped him and he actually became one of my best friends and were still friends to this day to this day third item was I was a theater nerd in high school west side story south pacific dial m for murder classic stage plays and musicals I went to one of my son's plays and it was an anti-bullying play and I thought there really is a war going on and young boys are taking this punch it's not the girls I didn't notice anything too crazy about raising my daughter it was the boys that are under attack at all levels now this was 10 years ago and that got me interested in what's happening with men because now my son is 20 years old he's got a beard drives he's in college works full-time and some of his dad has rubbed off on him and you never you just don't know how your kids are going to turn out you're rolling the dice they don't raise themselves just like that sandwich ain't gonna make itself boys aren't gonna raise themselves and I was very very involved in raising masculine boys and actually having to double down and not letting the education system raise my children when I saw the anti-bullying play I said what the hell when I heard my son say I'll get in trouble if I punch him I said what the hell when I heard about the fatherlike figure and son breakfast I said what the hell and the other fathers looked at me like I was a nut that's when I started well you know the since the dawn of time tribes civilizations they fight for territory sexuality reproduction and resources and today's civilization has thrown aside everything that worked in the past the relationship between men and women everything has been thrown away everything has been turned upside down and this is deliberate to demoralize demoralize society this will inevitably bring other societies to take over where whichever tribe still has strong aggressive men will take over the others and men's responsibility has always been to protect and provide so whomever will survive and withstand psychologically mentally spiritually and physically this change today and this is our role to help as many men as possible as many women as possible to understand this well this will enable our survival civilization but also physical and and those two things really matter and it's the example George just said about uh about school is so true I had the same experience this spring my elder I have four kids my oldest son had this first fight at school and actually before the fight he came home and said this guy is bullying me and I said the same he said well you should first talk to him and say hey I don't want I don't want any problem stop if it continues you fight because then whether you lose or whether you win doesn't matter but everyone will know that you are a tough target and that's what's important because predators will go after the week so we haven't been strong not just for us because we know that men and we know that we are in a way we're expendable in a way in history we fight we sacrifice ourselves to protect the woman who carry our children which are our legacy our genes and we can be wise enough to have a room society for everyone of course doesn't matter there you always has been places for everyone in a society as long as the men real men protect it and provide and today they are trying to for whatever agenda I'm not sure exactly why because as a marketer I used to be in marketing when you put Thor as a woman or James Bond as a woman you are suddenly losing 80 percent of your market yeah because these movies were targeted to men so how are they even going to make money so it's a it's a self-suicide of an industry no one goes to theaters anymore I don't want to go to the cinema anymore I don't want to watch TV anymore and it's 15 years I haven't had a TV show I haven't watched anything on TV for 15 years I read books I read history I train with all these gentlemen here and I hope I can get a better man and this is what I try to do with my books I even wrote a book on women how to teach women to be better to work with us as men because we're complementary doesn't mean we we have to be together all the time but we can be complementary I think one of the things that you just said very important about the that shaft in culture because what we're going to see over the past generation or true is the use of shame to attack those things that are natural to men and being the expendable sex as a work what's happened is the cultivation of almost self-immolation you're expendable and you are shameful so destroy yourself and it's a very insidious kind of meme or momentum in culture where at the same time men are being shoved into that shameful self-assessment of a sojournist or patriarchal or what have you your toxic but there hasn't been a corresponding change in our expendability and that becomes a very fatal mix because not only are you shameful we don't need you we can get rid of you because there's more turning that around I think is one of the fundamental things um by our biological nature just how we've evolved what we are what we do why our passions and our principles and our power as men is we are the ones who run to the sound of the guns we are the ones who are responsible for protecting and sacrificing in building we cannot stop being expendable without also accelerating accelerating the destruction of the west but when you tie in that shame of your very identity in with that expendability and you've got a very fast and very dandy spiral well for me when it comes to uh where we've been I'm new to this but uh I have a little bit of uh few months history and you know for me you have family and then you have family and since the late 80s I've been on a journey that I know I wasn't the only one out there and I knew there were people like me out there that had the same common thought process of helping young men become greater men better fathers and great husbands but through the journey I didn't find that I I kept looking and looking and luckily through Donovan Sharp he introduced me to Anthony dream Johnson through Anthony dream Johnson I spoke with mode one who spoke highly I mean it was like they were reading off each other's cards of how highly they spoke with that man and it was really to me a very exciting thing to be able to meet him I was uh in town I think was around Daytona beach I was in town I told him I was uh in town and just like that hey why don't you come come on over invited me into his home didn't know me from anything didn't not at all sat down with him and we talked and we bonded as men and then it allowed me to meet Socrates and then from Socrates I was under the impression I was like wow wait he's saying whoa this is like a goddamn justice league here it's like this is uh this is like wow there's more of you guys out there then there was George I mean everybody on this panel and everybody's going to be on the next show I mean everybody who was a part of this it was a mind-boggling eye-opening thing that you had a bunch of men who put their own eagles aside to make sure that you guys out there had knowledge and understanding and you learned see what you guys have to understand is we're not going to be here on this panel or on this planet forever it is up to you guys to take the information that we're all giving you and you run with it and teach other people how to be men because we can't do it all we're going to do it while we're here but it is up to you guys out there to carry that baton to keep things going now with that said that is where we've been now Socrates let's discuss where we are at my friend I'm going to steal two lines from the gentleman on my left obviously we talk about the maturing of the monastery I think that's taking place hi and I think there's going to be a very real acknowledgement of what Jack actually talks about is that the expectation is that men need to become and I think you're going to see that process enact I think you're also going to see a whole lesson what you're touching on you were just touching about is that previously the the internet allowed people to put content out and you would go to a soul practitioner and you'd kind of get the information from them and you'd move over to somebody else and they were not combined as kind of a group there wasn't a constellation of people you had to go to the individual shopkeepers you know there wasn't a collection you're seeing the content creators kind of coalescing together and there's a lot of communication between content creators now sharing of ideas information back and forth reaffirming information kind of a you know concerns about different things and I think that in itself is going to accelerate and create a lot more depth and breadth of material as we support each other up here as well as in in in areas that we're individually serving and I think the world's going to benefit from all that so I would expect to see a maturing of the ministry overall I expect to see men understanding that they can no longer sit down and to go through delayed as adolescents and continue that into the 40s and 50s and throughout life as a inappropriate life trajectory and I'm going to sit down and say I think you're going to start seeing a coalescing to a critical mass of content creators producing content that I think will go nuclear I was Jim Socrates talking I'm thinking you know Anthony this is the 21 just let's call it the 21 brand right and it's it's very particular especially if you look at its history going way back and how he is incorporated not just you know yes there was the the whole PUA the pickup stuff I saw a lot of that but I also saw a lot of really sensible things for male self-improvement and and and now you know the the what Socrates was just saying the maturing you know it's like okay can't stay can't stay boys and pickup artists forever not if you want to do your part to advance your expendability and civilization so you're gonna want at some point to find a good well what is a good one you know you want to have kids well how do you do that right and so Anthony can take this brand and he already has the the woman's conference 22 con plan you know planned for some future but I see even more than that there could be a couple's conference there could be a family's conference and to where it almost becomes you know 21 church in a sense right yeah exactly you know it's an all-encompassing brand that is is that is for wholesome wholesome children wholesome boys and girls wholesome adolescents wholesome young couples and families when I started writing in whatever was being called the men's sphere is that time many years ago it was for the men's rights activists and it was basically a group of guys who were generally seen as jilted losers knew who were just angry and you know they were just kind of you know they've gone through bad divorces and they were just kind of complaining a lot and looking to change laws which there were actually real problems that they were addressing which still probably haven't been addressed but what I'm seeing now is it being more focused on creating winners and I think that that's really exciting because I'm I think anti movements are always a failure you know if you have something that's focused against the anti it hasn't matured yet you know it's like I know a lot of people who like black metal and things like that it's like when you're still holding the upside down cross you haven't gotten over it yet you know you have to move what are you actually for stop talking about what you're against and I think it's pretty clear that it's it's becoming more about creating winners and you know again helping men become the best versions of themselves my thoughts are there's an evolution and I think it reminds me of how there's many different church denominations and there might all be that you know there's the same goal and that's to commune with God and I believe with all the different groups I think some are more on target than others what I don't want to do is keep a child a child sometimes it's time to put away the baby bottle and start eating solid food and mature and to grow up one of the reasons why a 60 year old man like me does not talk about pickup and game for me this is my opinion a gray hair guy with a gray beard talking about game and picking up girls can borderline be creepy that's just my opinion I leave it up to the young good looking guys so and I and I was hesitant to even be part of the movement because I thought is there really a place for me here maybe 30 years ago I would have when my hair was black and my beard was black and I looked like all these good looking attendees that are here what do I have to offer and I've got 40 years of failures successes raising children having gone through a divorce and all of the ugliness that's associated with that and you know your life can serve either as an inspiration for what to do or also what not to do and I think I have been fortunate to be an example of both I can't say that I've been a shining example my entire adult life I've made the mistakes I'm not afraid to talk about my mistakes and if there is a young man or even a guy that's getting divorced and he's in his 50s and looks at me and says man you remind me of me and he can learn one little thing to help that learning curve to suffer a little bit less to sleep a little bit better at night then it's been worth it I think that's the role that I'm currently playing I'm not on the cutting edge bearing the sword like a lot of you young guys here I'm the calm guy in the back watching observing and I'm there to do triage on you when you fall when you get hurt and I'm happy to be part of the overall support system but I think it takes multiple generations and I kind of like the inter like this panel here this is an intergenerational panel right here there's young men in the manosphere you know 22 years old you have people like me and there's room for everybody in it and I'm kind of tired of the factions I'm tired of people pointing fingers and you know there's room for everybody there's room for everybody and everybody's opinion is valid I'll end with that well you know I'm I'm I'm the new guy here it's first time at the convention and and and only if you can say right pill for maybe six months a year however I've been preparing for what I think is going to be the collapse of of the world of the globalized economy since 2005 so 15 years of thinking of preparation of action writing books and so on and one of the things that always bugged me in this idea is that okay the world collapses you you and your friends and your family your tribe you survive then what then you need to rebuild the world but you need the skills you need to understand who does what what what what's important when you rebuild that world are you going to do the same mistakes are you going to have transgender feminist commissions from the start no you let's wait a thousand years to do the same mistakes again no let's start from in the good way and then I was wondering well who know who can teach me who can tell me who you can share with on this so I went around I heard about you guys here and of course I heard about the the pickup artistry part so at my age yeah it's interesting there's some good skills I wish I knew that when I was 20 I wish I knew that when I was when I was 15 for sure but after a while you know so what you can seduce a woman but can you keep her can you build a family with her you need to learn that as well so I need to teach my children one day actually I would like you to also teach my children one day so it's very important to to talk to discuss to share because in from my point of view it's not just about survival it's actually about life it's about thriving today during the collapse okay that's gonna be tough time and after the collapse because I don't I don't want to leave bad children and bad people to the world of tomorrow I want to have the world of tomorrow whether I'll be in it or not I want it to be better much better than what we had today for sure that's gonna be easy and also much better than we had in the past we can do great stuff we can rebuild the world you know I was born in the 70s and it was a time where we could joke we could have fun with with with races with with sexes with with genders and because we actually started to actually love each other for the first time in the world you know for the first time you could see a black guy and say hey I'm different than you but what can we learn from each other you can you can go and see women and now we start to understand how we work because you can go to the you can go to a workplace and I can have I can show a little bit of emotions so we but this has been fucked up since then and now everyone is a racist everyone is a sexist everyone is a chauvinistic pig everyone is violent even if they may not look like but they're super violent when you know when you're on the internet when you have this protection of animosity an animosity whatever when they don't know who you are you are super violent you're like a you're a real fucking Nazi then but no we're all Nazis today which makes completely no sense so we have to build a better world and we can't so it's really important to share it's really important to to talk to to chat to have fun to make fun of each other but to learn you know what you said about it's about life it's not just about that narrow nature of material I think it's really important right now in the manor's field or what we're seeing a lot of is there's a lot of information there are a lot of assessments there are a lot of opinions and ultimately as men our nature our role is to act on information not simply to while I went masturbate within information and ultimately if we and all of you don't apply the information put it to work put it to action in the real world get your assessments on what's accurate and what's not you're never going to move past the theory of it I think it was Yogi Bell who said in theory practice in theory are the same and practice they're not you have to get out there in the real world we have to make those real relationships real brotherhood real friendships test those friendships test those relationships do you want to be a player and focus on game and picking up women you have to get out there on approach we have to get out there and test that material you want to have a relationship you have to have a relationship you have to test those boundaries go through those experiences find out what works and what doesn't and it is always possible always to devolve into a negative mindset of all there's an excuse why this won't work or there's an excuse why that won't work and ultimately that's a cowardly way to not engage with the world and test yourself and rise I think right now that's the decision that the manuscript is struggling with moving past just identifying things and doing with to make things change and have a different future than what many of us are able to see coming if we don't take action well guys I want to say before I say what I need to say we're getting ready to prepare to take your questions and everything so if y'all are ready to have questions go ahead and line up and everything but what I want to say real quick is that I I love George George is like my brother these are all my brothers and every time I look at George George kids George can never do any wrong but I have to correct George right here today because George lied to all of you by telling you that he's too old to teach you gang let me tell y'all something yes yes yes hell yes because when I saw George white aka white chocolate in his workshop he was spitting so many gyms mind blown and he had the nerve and audacity to lie to y'all and I want to apologize on his behalf because he can be 208 and he can still spit you gyms so uh with all due respect brother I disagree with you yes sir well it's funny that you say that because in the morning we're talking about how how um you know you can't do this certain things don't work everyone remembers that series of the beer commercials and they were on the tv and ravey the most interesting man in the world yes it's because you can't do that anymore that George didn't pick up that role right when when when he when he quit and it's not just George it's all of these guys all of us are going to get old and we'll still have the knowledge it's just you guys have got to learn false prophets from real men the beautiful thing about these guys in this panel reminds me when I was a little kid I was going back to my childhood because I love watching kid shows like the transformers go-bots and Voltron it's when you took the every every computer part of car or robot or animal whatever it was they were strong by themselves but what you get to see is when you come together and you connect together you become an entity stronger than anything else you can think of and this is what you have here and you have uh coming up uh in the next uh hour or so but you have real men coming together not judging not caring it's not about their race it's not about um what they do for living it's the message that they are willing to give you and all of these men are giving you great messages so what I say before we answer questions is please guys this is your opportunity to ask the transformers the justice league these great men questions that you can take home today with you and start working on yourself so guys the floor is yours if y'all have any questions please ask raise your hand if you have any questions gentlemen okay and hey all the uh all the chat room my chat room dogs y'all can ask questions too and we got you any questions well uh strength courage mastery and honor uh it's uh yeah I think as as far as I've said to a lot of people recently in terms of values I mean in terms of men and values uh there are different cultures and different cultures are going to have the different values I mean we have guys speakers who are women's and we have the you know speakers who are you know atheists and all kinds of things and uh so they're all going to have slightly different values so that that becomes a little tricky but I think that there's uh there's a combined interest in making men better and uh I think that a good way to look at it in someone else has said this as well is is uh different voices for different years uh different guys need to hear sometimes the very same message but they need to hear it from a guy who's maybe a little bit more like them or who shares a little bit more of their values and uh you know the message that we have to actually become men is important and the message that we have to uh continue to challenge ourselves and to to create male spaces and come together like that I think is really important as well and uh beyond that some guys are going to go and have families and that's going to be part of their main focus and that's going to be a whole value system of its own and then uh some guys are not and you know there's a lot of broken people in the world and there's a lot of women who should not marry and uh you know there's not going to be someone for everybody and so there's going to be guys in the same way if there used to be dudes uh who died in coal mines and went out on whaling ships and had life adventures there's going to be guys who uh have to find their path a different way and so we're going to need all different uh voices for all different kinds of voices I like that different voices for different ears I think that's that's good I think you have to pick your mentors people that relate to you people that are whose message is congruent with who they are you know if if I want to know something about a certain discipline I go to somebody who's an expert in that and is has the social proof to back that up and I think we need to kind of check our mentors a little bit better because in a world of like Piero said there's so many brave men out there um people get real brave behind a keyboard uh add a little alcohol to that and then the bravado is just amazing uh there's experts that have never left their laptop ever and they're doing shows they're doing interviews they're on camera but they've never left their laptop choose your mentors wisely your mentors need to respect you and not be rate you people grow through nurturing not through getting mocked and uh I think it's important that we uh honor and address people's pain and what keeps them awake at night I think that's real important that's the role that I feel that this group is playing I think it's important very shortly you know in the throughout history the Renaissance man or the the citizens of of Athens or the um elites of Persia or any other great civilization there were people that yes they would provide they would fight they were warriors they also had culture they also had knowledge and yes they would pass it along and they had skills they had mastery and mastery and comes in in many sizes you have people skillful are making shoes make people skill thing out a plumbry uh people skillful at poetry and at the same time they have to fight and they have to provide so I think that men can really come in all shapes and sizes uh and you know size those matter but uh but or not who knows but certainly certainly the the helping each other cross breathing cross fertilizing knowledge skills is what makes us better and yes we can not be you know best in everything we do but we can try and we can advance and we can learn because then it makes us better fathers better husbands better leaders and even better followers sometimes because in the tribe you know you have one or two leaders but then you have many skill members and specialized people there's a guy who makes who makes the stones really nice another guy you can make the skin of the animals really well a guy who can find the animals really nicely and working together you're a more efficient tribe so of course you know extrapolate this to today's world and perhaps tomorrow's world and one point that perhaps I can it would be nice to to have your opinion as well is that I think we shouldn't be too concerned about James Bond being a female and by the way today they want to have James Bond as a as a black female to demoralize the majority of the western world which is white men but tomorrow they will make movies of Mandela who is a norwegian or a chinese actor because eventually they want to demoralize everyone it's not about just white men it's everyone so we should not be concerned to that to that like crumb on his mountain laughs at all that and just says I just I ignore you I will do something else with my tribe with my people with my brothers and the women that are with us and with that you create a new world so you have a mental secession from this and that I think is also something very important and we need to learn so I think well mentors are concerned I could speaking from my experiences it's always been very important in my own life to identify mentors that were in a place that was frightening or dangerous more important dangerous to me to reach the purpose of a mentor is not to make you feel good about yourself the purpose of a mentor is not to do things for you the purpose of a mentor is not to make things safer or more predictable for you if you wish to rise if you wish to improve if you wish to augment your capabilities and your capacity or your performance you're going to go through stress it's going to hurt it's going to be frightening it's going to be potentially damaging there may be things you have to pay or you lie background with the decades of the martial training that went through there were costs associated with parts of my body that were permanently damaged there were things that I had to understand about a broken heart about a shattered mind that would have been very dangerous to go through without a mentor so how do you select one how do you identify a mentor that has the integrated spirit mind performance like just out of laughter but in the real world part of that too becomes getting out into the real world yourself and then you recognize authenticity when you see it all you have is a digital existence snark on twitter whining on reddit you don't understand reality you don't understand the real world and your ability to select mentors will be broken you must get out there and then you see in the real world who is competent who does produce results who is successful in that particular arena and then once you've done that they may or may not be people that you like they may or may not be people that you can watch they may or may not be good men but if they're not real it doesn't matter find men if you are looking for mentors find men who have been through it before that's what the word sensei means one who's been through it before been through and not seen it you have to have the real world experience because ultimately again back to theory and practice there's just theory and we think you climb and then you get out there and practice and your mentor was full of shut you're going to die lost the hard way to learn so again find people who have truly done it that's your first step you know a man is allowed to build his castle and he is allowed to defend his castle when there are people at the door is trying to blow his castle up before a lot of guys out there today y'all well not you guys but there are people out there that are looking at that man for defending his castle as being weak that's not he's being strong because a man defends his home he defends his name he honors himself and with that being said when it comes to mentors you've got to watch out for the false prophets you've got to watch out for the guys out there that rather be idolized by who they are and not what they say it tells you a lot about the character and what they're doing to you young men a real mentor will not ever go against anybody trying to teach human out there manhood anybody trying to stop prevent ridicule memes and all that other stuff you've got to take a moment and take a step back and look at who they're following and look at what they're thinking you know we don't all don't get along but as a man I can walk away and not say anything because I can show appreciation and honor for being a part of something but when you come back and turn around and try to stab the hand or bite the hand that feeds you it shows that you are thinking more about yourself than young men and that's why it's important when it's time to look for a mentor bite the gold see if it's fool's gold because if it's trying to prevent you from learning manhood run away from that person because that person is only thinking or they are only thinking about themselves and not you guys sorry I'm going to change it up just a little bit uh when we talk about standing for something rather than opposing something I think it's also really important when we talk about masculinity and nanosphere it's not necessarily just the natural procreation and family rearing that we anticipate and it's one of the things that I really appreciate Jack for uh because he expresses it and lives in a unique way and during his workshop I know it out everybody was able to attend that he sat down and talked about his book and the the four virtues of masculinity and ran it through the idea of inside of a business what if you actually modeled a business based on the virtues of masculinity strength and might courage mastery honor and developed a business model that served that and then looked for a community that was getting shit on by a world that seems to want to crap on anything positive and masculine and serve that you know we talk about tactical so that that it would be a preeminent one that we've embraced you know to sit down and say you know they do a good product they honestly do but you sit down and say the thing that I really liked about them they like me and you know what I have a real hard time using anything Procter and Gamble Gillette and any of the umbrella programs that they do when they're exploiting division divisiveness and they're tearing good things down I don't want my money going to that I would rather you know promote and and purchase from products and providers service providers that that support me and my ideals and my culture and reflect that and so I think there's something to be said about standing for that and I think it's important for everybody to find their own individual purpose it may not be family rearing or family development it very well be your dent in the universe is to create something wondrous you know out in the world to have an impact on the arts on the sciences in business and recognize that there's that is no less value than providing a legacy through genetic biological material uh you know my namesake Socrates I don't think he had children uh you know I honestly don't know but by God we still know his name and are influenced by his legacy and so don't ever let that escape you and so when we talk about standing for something and and promoting something it we're talking about beyond ourselves but there's more than just one category and one one discipline in which we can do that and I'd like to celebrate anybody who does um I'm going to change it up just a little bit more so it but in the context of what you know are you are you just against everything or are you standing for something so we talked about we covered a lot of the the macro ground on that so let me go a little bit macro politics philosophy if you will um there is uh there's a a common term that you hear cuddled about by the left is progressivism you know progressivism which implies that we're someplace bad and we're we need to progress to someplace better what's your standard value you know you can you can progress a lot a lot of the way towards hell you know the what is it the road to hell is paid with good intentions right you know I I like to call well the the the rocket sled to hell is running right on time uh with with a lot of the stuff you see so what is your standard so it so the word progressive in itself it's a it's a it's mushy mewy mouth hydra headed bullshit you know term weasel words right so when I think of what is the standard of value I like my standard of value is pro civilization human civilization and you don't it doesn't take a lot to understand that and if you have this in your mindset you and you and you understand history you understand where we've come from to where we are now it's very easy to see how we kind of peaked and are headed down and I hope it doesn't get as bad as pierrot thinks it it it will right hopefully yes yeah and um so so that's what I wanted to add to that is is that we need a human civilization and look look at you know we just celebrated 50 years man on the moon right haven't been there since well you know I guess you know we had that period of time but pretty pretty soon it's going to be 50 years since we haven't been there so and I'm not saying we need to go I'm just saying that that we're we don't have these sorts of human you know back in 1969 when that happened we were the whole world had their eyes on us they couldn't believe it some of them still don't yeah yeah yeah let's say yeah we couldn't believe it okay well now you have Chinese yes yeah yeah yeah you trade as well yeah yes uh do we uh okay well guys uh what do we want to do a quick lightning round uh just the last few words that y'all would like to say we'll start off uh with Socrates and go around real quick what would you like to say everyone out here do not let this event be a singular moment in your life do not leave this event and just pack your notes and go home uh one of the other speakers talked about taking your notes put in in action uh make one or two friends that will hold you accountable here make sure you stay in contact with them and in springboard this event into your life it's the only way you're going to have impact uh you know I I just keep plugging and I can't plug Anthony Dream Johnson enough for all of the efforts he's put into this for so he started this at 17 age 17 can you believe it right and it's just something great to be involved in I I spoke the first time in 2011 so we're talking what I can't add uh in nine eight years eight years and um and I've always always supported uh Anthony and and even if even if I didn't agree with everything you did and I'm not saying I do don't or do uh I support what he's doing because I see the men that he attracts and even even the women as well that you know there's I think there's an increasing number of women who aren't involved in the conference per se it's very supportive in the background for what's going on because they they see the results themselves we have members in the audience yes yes uh I'm going to bounce off the Socrates and what he said because this is very important it gets very frustrating when you go out and meet with men and uh encourage them to do a lot of things and then they come back whether it's the next month or the next week or whatever and and uh they haven't really done anything they just like to go and have a cathartic experience and talk about the problems and so forth and uh we have a saying out that uh my land bold gang uh but dreams hatched in darkness thrive in the light of day and that's something that I've been encouraging as well for a long time you know if he whether it's from this conference or from the information that you're getting from uh 21 University or whatever um you know if you're not putting in an action it's just really more masturbation so okay I'd like to say there there is wisdom in a multitude of counselors and this organization has such a wide variety of people teachers experiences and uh never feel the need to take sides with anything or anybody just learn from everybody Galileo said I never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him you can be a teacher and a student at the same time and every guy up here is a teacher and every guy up here is also a student and I would say emulate that well as a first time speaker here I can only say that I'm thrilled and I look forward to other conferences and and to meet even more of them so what I'd like to close with for everyone is to keep in mind a very important process when it comes to your own growth your own development your own success and that is within every encounter every experience you have is that potential for new understanding new insight you have to be paying attention and looking for George was saying about not taking sides all of that very important because you must be focused not on sides but on finding value and extracting value and building value and absorbing it and embodying it without that you're just spinning your wheels grow learn see I do this every time I encounter these men each one of them has something whether it's George's cause or whether it's jock solidity whether it's steve's incredible spirit of joy take these things and make them part of your own yeah I just want to say an ending to this is that I always tell everybody take a moment and look at the graveyard and just remember everybody in there have one thing in common they thought they had tomorrow coming to them you don't know when your time is going to be up so make sure you live every day like a man now this is going to be the end of our show this is being brought to you by tactical soap.com and guys do not forget the 21 convention october 24th through the 27th you can get your tickets at going to the 21 convention.org with that being said this is the red man group y'all have a good day thank you