 Okay, let's we'll go ahead and call to order the October 6th meeting of the Historic Preservation Commission Can we call the roll please? Chairman Lane here Commissioner Sibley here Commissioner Barnard Commissioner Guy you Commissioner Norton here Commissioner goon Commissioner Jacobi Councilmember Rodriguez Thank you. Thank you All right first order of business would be approval of Two sets of minutes the first being our August 4th 2022 And the second being September 1st 2022 will take those one each at a time So are there any? Corrections or comments relating to the August Meeting none if so I'd entertain a motion. Okay, I've got a motion to approve from Commissioner Jacobi and a second from Commissioner Sibley all in favor. Please Say aye. Aye. Any opposed none. Okay Those minutes are approved September See September 1st 2020 any Comments or corrections on those minutes Motion I have a motion to have a second Okay, I have a Motion to approve the September minutes by Commissioner Barnard seconded by Commissioner Jacobi all those in favor say aye Opposed none. Okay, those minutes are also now approved. Thank you All right Report from the chair. I don't have anything in particular other than We would like to take this opportunity to Acknowledge the efforts of our unfortunately no longer commissioner Mr. Lee hardies And so we have I've got a we'll come up here have you come up. I've got a little certificate of appreciation for you yeah, come on up here and You can have your Now we do we do appreciate your your time and this commission in particular is a little different than many in the in the city because we do require Not quite half but but a decent amount of 40% of the commissioners have to have some professional background in preservation and so You know having that expertise on the panel is always Really valuable. So again, thanks. Thanks for coming down. All right. That is all I had We'll move on to communications from the HPC staff liaison Sure the prime. I don't really have too much to report at this point Primary thing that we have coming up as it's time to prepare our CLG report to send to the State Historic Preservation Office So we will be getting that taken care of this month and sent in Okay, I know last month we had I don't know five or six folks come down and speak about things going on at the Bone Farm And I wonder if you could give us a little update on what is just sort of happening out there and if we expect to see Something in the nearer future Sure. So currently we don't have an application in place at this point The project has gone through a pre application meeting as well as a neighborhood meeting that was quite well attended by the public So the applicant is currently preparing their application their application package making revisions to the site plan They were originally proposing about 75 townhome units. They are looking to scale that number down a bit And you know basically in response to some of the community concerns So as far as where that is in the process, they haven't actually entered the process yet aside from the pre application If you know meetings and neighborhood meetings, I do anticipate receiving an application formal application package Later this month from them. So okay, and are there Forgive me. I'm not 100% up to speed it are there properties there that are landmarked that that would require a certificate of Appropriateness for modifications or is it just the fact that it's kind of a there there are no landmark has there are No locally designated landmarks. It is not a locally designated district of any sort There is a farmhouse on the property that did have a cultural cultural Survey Performed on it several years back and it would be eligible for local listing did have some local significance But the owners at this point aren't interested in pursuing that there There will be a a small kind of city-owned pocket park on the property but it's not on the side of the property where the farmhouse is and The city parks department has not They don't have interest in owning and maintaining that particular property. They don't think you know, it's an appropriate That that particular park is an appropriate location for it for it And at this point there really isn't a good opportunity or good option for relocating the house at this point either so In a nutshell, it would be sad to lose it But it does not have it has not been designated And it's not part of any sort of landmark property. It's not part of a locally designated historic district So in effect, there's no jurisdiction for this commission with respect to that project pretty much Yeah, okay Nevertheless with as things move we appreciate an update if we absolutely could on that In that same sort of vein I was curious. I noticed a while back and meant to mark this 356 main is undergoing some Renovations And that's not a landmark, but it is a contributing building in The national district And so again, I recognize at least the way that our current ordinance is written There's no obligation for those folks to come before the commission for a certificate of appropriateness, but Being the fact that it's actually in a district I wonder if there was any discussion when that application was received Whether there would be You know, whether it was presented that to the the applicant that you know might be of some value to Come before the board and and get any kind of feedback or In the absence of that if we could again just be kind of informed as a body it's I think it's good for us to to Be aware of what the development applications are happening in especially within districts, you know, main street obviously pretty Pretty prime location pretty visible So staff did take a look at that proposal when it came in I know it went before the dda board and the applicant is really looking to undo some of the non contributing aspects alterations that were done over the years so Restoring the original brick Doing some work on the storefront itself that to make it more in line with its original its original appearance so Because it's not a landmark it didn't it did not need a certificate of appropriateness per se But staff did take a look at it and You know, we felt that it was That the alterations they were proposing Were ultimately a very good thing for that building Okay, okay. Yeah, I guess it would be great if we could Again, and we have done this in the past. I think part of this is maybe just staff change and that kind of thing When there was a project that wasn't necessarily Up in front of us for a coa often we you know staff might just include that in their report to say this is happening It's within the district. It's not an action item for you, but we like you to know that this is what's going on And that we've reviewed it and we've actually had a discussion about historic preservation With the client, you know, just I think it's better For everyone we get to know what's going on and if the client and you know Somebody wants to come in front of the board and just just get some feedback again because we've got some pretty Pretty smart people on this board That's a something they can do that isn't binding. Sure. I appreciate that feedback. Yeah, great. Thank you And I'm I gotta I gotta this this this is not an instant process Are they aware of the potential for tax credits and that sort of thing as well? Considering it isn't and I forget if it's a state district or a national registered district It's a national registered district So they would be you know, they could avail themselves of both state and federal tax credits if they're doing the work appropriately Sure. It's a pretty significant. I would have to touch base with brian on that because he's he's been more involved As our staff liaison to the downtown development authority. So He's been a bit more involved in that particular process. So I know You know, they've been working closely with the dda And such so I just don't know that they Felt I don't know if they've decided to pursue any sort of grants or if they would pursue landmark designation to avail themselves of grants So True that that is true Absolutely, absolutely I'm pretty certain that somebody has mentioned those to them as well. So Yeah, because I think if if they if they do if they came back and actually became became before us and actually requested a landmark Like said, hey, we're going to do these improvements. These are historic um, you know, we're going to take Steps that would be consistent with the secretary of interior standards in our You know rehabilitation of this building and we want to landmark it Even under the current ordinance, they would be eligible for waiver permit fees and there's a there's a decent amount of carrots out there That if they're going to do everything right anyways You know, I mean that then then then it can be a case of helping Absolutely, you know versus this doesn't always have to be The place where the hammer is thrown, right? I mean it can be also the place where Where, you know, we have some carrots We have some carrots So I'll I'll touch race with brian because he's been more involved in that process than I have so And see what discussions I've had regarding the tax credits. Great. Thank you That's all I have. Okay. Thanks All right, uh Next item would be public invited to be heard So if there's anyone in the audience that would like to speak to something that is not on the agenda This is your moment you can come on up and state your name and you'll have a few minutes to Yeah, no, all right. Everybody's here for the party. Okay. All right. Very good. I'll close the public invited to be heard And uh, we'll move on to the public hearing So this is a hearing for a certificate of appropriateness for a new accessory dwelling unit At 329 5th avenue And staff I imagine we have a presentation. We do have a presentation. It should be up on your screen We make it full screen All right, so this is a continuance of the public hearing for 329 5th avenue from the september meeting As you recall may recall from the last meeting they were presenting a certificate of appropriateness package that included porch alterations or really porch restoration to remove some non contributing aspects of the front porch and also to construct a Garage with a second story accessory dwelling unit We did continue the accessory dwelling portion of the public hearing to this meeting because there Were some last minute changes to the design in response to certain zoning requirements for accessory dwelling units and accessory structures specifically So in terms of your vicinity here just to give everyone a refresher This particular property is at the southeast Corner of fifth and emery So this is the hs web house. It was built in 1907 designated in 2019 The request is to replace an existing single story garage that is not contributing With a two-story addition that includes a two-car garage a workshop and a second story adu This is go shift has shifted from an accessory structure to an addition In order to comply with setback requirements under the zoning code. So rather than a freestanding accessory structure They are proposing an addition whereby the garage is effectively connected to the main house through a mud room Through a small mud room So planning staff has reviewed the accessory dwelling unit. It meets our adu standards that are in our land development code As I mentioned the original proposal was modified To be an addition versus an accessory structure as well Historic eastside neighborhood association has provided a letter of support For this project both in it in its current design So they are happy they they expressed You know approval of the design that they were They they liked the fact that it was in character with the house in the neighborhood In terms of staff recommendations, we do recommend approving the addition as proposed and with that I am going to turn it over to the applicant To talk through the specifics of the design proposal Good evening. My name is Danielle Lynn and I'm the architect. I work with uh Well for myself but in context architecture and one of the homeowners Julia stone is here with me as well. Um, so we'll just give you a quick run through Um, so up on the screen is the site plan emory street is below fifth street is to the left The image up here is the front of the house as addressed from fifth street. So that's Looking from the left side over here and this dashed line is the new Garage and this is the mud room attachment piece that we're talking about Utilizing existing driveway and the previous garage sat in this corner as well I have a mock-up of the previous single-story garage And where we are replacing that with the new two-story structure So this is the view from emory street again. Here's the existing garage below is what's proposed um, and in the back is The mud room connection and we pushed that to the back of the property and tried to minimize that Um as much as possible. So we felt like We were able to do that successfully without detracting From the historic character of the house And we have tried to complement the design with colors materials similar roof lines similar window proportions The windows also have to meet egress. So they had to be a little bit wider to to make that work There's a bedroom up here on the front Here's another view just with some of the proposed Uh details the top left is an existing detail over there just showing woodlap siding They've got black trim white siding and gray doors and we are matching that color scheme on the house and we have an accent of kind of some Square shakes shingles up in the gable Gable portions of this new structure at the new addition um and The existing house has some shake shingles that have more of the rounded Uh detailing so we've got some compatible design features But we're we're not trying to mimic the existing structure so they can still differentiate old from new Any questions? Yes Just for clarity so you had to increase the square footage of the building and You're gonna have to obviously remove some historic material from the main house In order to be able to do this Even though it's the same footprint that you would have built as a separate building So the the story behind this actually it's not a setback thing, but it's a Area of detached a structure that's allowed versus if it's an addition And so the ad you complied with You have to be under 50 of the area of the main house and we are at 35 percent But with the garage the garage itself also Has a 50 requirement, but the two of them together have to be 50 or less So by connecting it with this tiny mudroom piece it's now an addition and not a detached structure So it's kind of a a funny Zoning cord I would have hoped that you could have gotten an exception to that considering Again that this is a historic home and now you're actually going to have to take a chunk out of it and you essentially end up With the same thing right you just now have a little And we actually don't really need it. There's an existing back door back there So we're connecting to an existing back door. It already has a little flight of staircase Inside of the home back there. So really just kind of tapping into that existing door in the back That's just one of those things that I think probably annoy a lot of people Yeah, and we did we did talk with planning staff to see and they were willing to um exempt like a teeny increase, but we would have had to chop this thing down substantially to meet the They're 50 requirement for entire detached structure So that was the revision we found out at the last minute which bumped us to this month But other than that the structure is the same Any other questions or comments from commissioners? I'm not sure of the importance of you know, the cutting back of Getting into the historic house. I I personally just got a variance I I have a garage that's bigger than my house Um in old town It's not a and in my house is not You know an official historic house, but it is it was built in 1906 And I just I needed a big garage and not a big house. Um So I I know it was pretty easy to get the variance. Is that something you would prefer? Or you're now Wanting to do the mudroom. I would have to defer to homeowners to see if they wanted to uh Try and pursue additional options that we did talk pretty um Thoroughly about any alternatives and alternate routes to get that approved with uh with planning for the site review process and um He said that they would be able to I can't remember if he said that maybe like 10 percent extra. Um, but it wasn't It wasn't even close to getting us um the garage plus the the edu above unfortunately That's just Other questions or comments I don't personally have a huge heartburn over over this tiny little Connection um, especially if there's already a door there that you're connecting to I mean, it's a little weird that you Had to go through this, but maybe it's okay. I don't think that's Too terrible and I think you've done a nice job of of Designing something that with the the appropriate scale and and I appreciate even the the notion of the shingles That's one of the first things I saw that they were square And one of my point one of my questions would have been are these really going to be square not a fish scale mimic? And so I appreciate you clarifying that All right, um, well if there's no other questions for the applicant, uh, we will at least Um, although I don't know that we have public comment. Well, we'll we'll We'll go ahead and uh and uh ask for any public comment if there if there is any Um, I'll open thanks for thanks for the information and the presentation um Well just the homeowner would you like this anything to say before I close this section or or are you good? Okay, thanks. All right. So, um, we'll go ahead and open Public comment. Is there anyone in the audience that would like to speak to this item? Seeing none, I will close the public comment Uh, and then open it up for any further discussion by the commission any Comments or discussion If not, I would entertain a motion Let go ahead. So you're on the record here Prove this application as is Okay, so I have a motion uh for approval of the certificate of appropriateness from commissioner goon seconded by commissioner Norton all those in favor, please say hi Any opposed? None. All right. Your application is approved unanimously. Thank you for coming down and and spending the time with us tonight Okay, uh New business would be next on our agenda and it does not appear that we have any New business that aren't action items. So they will move on to prior business Uh, which involves uh, it looks like a couple of updates first being, uh an update on the status of our Barn our dickens barn So we have good news on the on the barn So, um, we have come to an agreement with the applicant. Um, we're in the process of Figure out how best to get that memorialized to where The barn will be dedicated conveyed to the city with a stipend for stabilization As well as basically all the outlots on the property Will be conveyed to the city as well. So there will be that intact resource with the barn At which point we will be figuring out Exactly what we're going to do with it and how we're going to maintain it. But once we have it in our Possession we can come up with some more concrete plans Well, now the other thing I understand is I believe it's still going to be on the parks and rec advisory board meeting On monday. So I think it'd be good if you can make it mr. Chair and um, it's at 6 30 and I don't know where I believe it's at the um sunset Drive service center parks and rec facility. Yeah, so the parks and rec facility is my understanding to the south of the river All right, I'll get you more details on that but Staff is on board. We have the applicant on board. I think everything looks good Okay, at this point. It's just a matter of getting everything memorialized and And such so but we have you know We have we have we have a solution. So that's very exciting. Excellent. Uh, any commissioner questions or comments on that one? Yeah, well, thanks I want to thank staff for working uh on this because I know we kind of threw it at you and I'd like to call out the commissioners too for you know, kind of pushing back on this and And making this happen. It's I think it's a big win for everyone honestly, so Yeah, and back at you Make it an issue and and yeah, we had to push some buttons and get it to happen, but um, I think everybody realized It was the right thing. So Great, that's excellent All right, wonderful And then our second set of updates would be on HPC code amendments Yeah, and what I wanted to update the I missed that so I'm sure it was snide I just said if we could we go two for two tonight? Well, um We've been trying to get back on the council agenda. Um, I am going to meet with our staff team to see if we can maybe Separate this into a little smaller bites rather than throw everything at the council and yourselves and I know, um It really started with concerns about the demolition process and criteria that's in the code so I think that's my suggestion is maybe we pull that aside and and we work on that and Bring it to council in smaller pieces. So at least from a staff team We're going to be figuring out how to move it forward in smaller bite-sized pieces. I guess Okay Yeah, absolutely. Just go ahead Thanks Just for um clarification. Does that mean that it would be added to the um That it would be added to the code in bite-sized pieces or like does that change what our overall process is? Or would we wait for the whole package to be done and then it would be voted on? Um I'm going to have to kind of dig into that a little bit I think um, I would prefer to actually do amendments in peace unless um, okay But one of the big pieces, you know, is pulling out Chapter two and putting it into 15 And then creating the overlay and everything so if um if we can Get section two so it's in good shape and then make the big move. Um, that might make sense. Okay. Thank you. Yeah so, um Should we is it a value to bring? That back here as a discussion item for the commissioners to kind of review That language and just go over it internally Uh before or do we need the city attorney to come here and It what's what what is the right step neck that you know? Yeah, that's what I'm going to talk to city attorney about and um, that would be my recommendation is we kind of get a format That hpc is happy with um, and then we maybe do another work session with city council on the regular agenda um, and just Yeah, figure out a plan of how to bring it um in pieces forward so Any other comments or questions from commissioners about them? okay The other one that that's sort of looped into this is is uh status of grants for uh surveying I'll let jennifer handle this It has similar status update from previous meeting. Um, we are still having some significant staff shortages right now. So Because we're wearing a ton of hats and trying to get development projects reviewed As expeditiously as possible. This is kind of been put on the back burner But hopefully it will get moved to the front burner before sooner rather than later It is there any uh, is there an ability or Possibility for commission members to potentially help with that process if it's just if it's writing a grant that is We're talking about non-competitive grants. I think for surveying Property, I don't know that that's a particularly Complicated Yeah, and so I mean I might be uh Suggesting a volunteering folks on this commission who don't want to be we don't want to volunteer, but I'm But we're putting pressure on you. I might as well put pressure on everybody else um You know, is there an opportunity for for the commit if there's a commission member that's willing to To step in and help out a little bit or work to spend a few hours with staff. Is that it's that possible? I like the idea. Okay. I mean um We are actually putting together Just some backfilling planning help. We're putting an r of q out but We'll certainly take volunteers from anybody who doesn't have a conflict Which might be complicated, but we'd certainly love to talk about that Okay Well, I won't put anybody on the spot tonight On the on the commission here, but if commissioners want to have a You know consider that if anybody's got an interest in and Helping the city move this forward, which would help us just move our whole agenda forward Um, you know some of these meetings are pretty short. So yeah, go ahead Almost I'm not I'm not thrilled with this to be honest with you It says seat four mic on Unfortunately missed a couple of the past meeting. So which grants and what type of grants are we talking about? I think we are going for a non competitive grant to do additional survey work Yes, so we were well, we were looking at putting together doing a survey Doing one of the non competitive grants to put together a survey plan for the for the city and figure out What were which ones we would be targeting for a survey in the future? Yeah, this goes back a ways and I think you it was one of the meetings I think you suggested it now that I recall Um, I appreciate that Excellent. Thank you commissioner. Okay. Any other Comments or questions on the code amendments or grants or no, no, okay. Very good. Thank you For those updates So at this point we're just down to any comments from hpc commissioners Anybody have anything they'd like to throw out? Commissioner Jacoby There you go. All right Two comments. Uh, the first is a reminder that there will be another Historic walking tour this Saturday. If anyone's interested in coming, you're certainly welcome It's nine to noon and it starts at the west side of the library And I've been doing some average. We'll see what kind of numbers I get but It will be another Walking tour the second Concern I have involves the last reduction of property for designation that we encountered and We approved it and I think that was appropriate But I think our backs were against the wall in a sense in that if we didn't approve it They would probably de-designate their property due to economic incentives to subdivide And I know of another property on Collier street that was de-designated And I don't think you know just discussing with folks here earlier I don't think there's any consequence to de-designation And while we're talking about code amendments, maybe we should think about Whether we would want to put something into writing about Consequences of de-designation if people are reaping benefits Economic benefits from designating and then they decide to de-designate. I would think at a minimum We would want to get that tax and permit money back So, um I don't I just throw that out there as a thought. I don't know if anyone else has any comments about that or wants to discuss that further All right Thanks commissioner. Uh, any other comments? commissioners, uh, how about our city council representative? All right. Thank you. Thanks for joining us here All right. Well Uh, at that point we're at the end of our agenda. I will entertain a motion to adjourn All right I'm a second All right, we uh, uh, I'm gonna go moved by Commissioner Barnett and seconded by commissioners Sibley since we're right next to each other and uh, All those in favor Hi, we are adjourned. Thank you very much for your time