 Good morning, everybody. Well, morning for me and Perth. I would like to start by acknowledging the traditional owners of the land on which I am, the Wajuk people of the Nungar Nation. And I'd like to pay my respects to their elders past and present. And I would like to extend that respect to any First Nations people in this webinar today. Thank you very much for joining us. I feel like it's a very early in the year kind of webinar, but we've still had about 50 people sign up, which is quite promising. Yes, I know we are towards the end of January. But even though, even so, I've tended to avoid running events quite so early in the year. So, this webinar. Oh, sorry, my name is Matias Lippers and I'm from the Australian Research Data Commons. I'll introduce all of our panelists shortly. And so this webinar is about peer research support methods or solutions, things like that. You might have heard of hacky hour, which is what a lot of people call this kind of peer research support, but in other organizations, it might be called something different. So, what do we have today? We have four amazing panelists who I will introduce in turn, and they will share a very quick story about how they're managing their particular peer research or how they might have done it in the past. And then we will hopefully have time for a really nice long facilitated Q&A. I do please ask that you keep yourself muted, although I'm not sure you can unmute yourself. It depends on how I've said everything in Zoom. Sorry, this is the first time I've actually used Zoom to run a webinar like this. But if you do have any questions, please type them in the chat. And then I will pick and choose those questions for our panelists or the panelists might choose to answer them directly in the chat. We'll see how we go. Okay, so our four panelists today are Amanda Miotto from Griffith University and Kusif, Mariam Afzal Khan from Intersect and the University of Adelaide, Gulam Mortaza from Intersect, just Intersect, and also Christian Gudeika from Positive Social Solutions. All right, so I'd also like to introduce my colleague Liz Stokes, who is helping run the webinar today and should my NBN connection suddenly drop out, she will seamlessly and smoothly take over. All right, so first up today, we have Amanda Miotto, who is the Kusif e-research analyst at Griffith University. Amanda, you've been involved or rather you've been running hacky out for quite some time now and you've got a lot of experience. What would you like to tell us a little bit about what you do? So I'm Amanda. In our space, we've been running little catch ups, basically open to anybody who wants to attend. We've been calling them hacky hours, but we've been keeping, we're pretty happy for anyone to come in and ask any sort of questions. So what we do is we treat it a little bit like a meetup, we say, all right, this coffee shop this time, come on in. We paste it from a model of uni in Melbourne. We're happy for any sort of topic. So we do get a lot of data science and a lot of people learning how to program and then want to come in and get a little bit of help around that. We get a lot of people who have finished software carpentry, so they're looking for a bit of help from there onwards. Some people who just want to come talk about compute, so whether you take HPC, but sometimes it's really open as well. So we'll get researchers being like, hey, what's available or have a lot of data, what do I do with it. So we do use it a little bit of a triage as well. So we'll refer to different parts of the university. It's also really good to break up silos because you do find that researchers really sometimes don't get out of the lab groups or don't see people outside of that. So it gives them the opportunity to come in, meet like we sometimes will bring along our storage team like IT team. Sometimes we'll bring along like an IT specialist. So it gives us the opportunity to be able to connect these people one on one. And it's been really, really good. So we've been running for about four years now. I do two different campuses because my university split over five, so we have two major ones. And I tend to find we get anything from one or two up to 10 people every week. I have noticed between five and seven people is that real momentum moment where you'll get like the same people come back every, every week. Whereas sometimes people will just stop in and grab their one problem console and get back out again. I have noticed one of the things that has been really good is having a single coordinator. So having one person who is driving the whole thing. So doing the ads, making sure there is some people there to answer questions who can refer as well. So that's kind of a little bit of what we've been doing, but I'll answer some questions as well. So feel free to ask me anything. Great. Thank you, Amanda. Okay, next up, I'd like to call on Gulam, who is currently the research service manager at Intersect, but did run Hakyar himself in a previous role. Could you tell us a little bit about that place, Gulam? Thanks, Matthias. Hello everyone. And my name is Gulam. Research services manager, as Matthias said, but I was in the role of research analyst for good five years. One first year was at ACU and since then for almost four, four and a half years at La Trobe University. Before I talk about La Trobe Hakyar, Amanda, I just want to appreciate your knowledge and how you have been so kind and so willing to help and share your knowledge about how to run Hakyar with everyone. And I still use data2vis.com, which you shared whenever I run a training, I share with all the attendees and I have to thank you for sharing that in one of the email lists. Yes, and thank God I'm not following you on any debate or anything because following you would be really hard. Okay, so yes, so La Trobe University. We started La Trobe University peer support, you know, catch ups in 2017, and I didn't call it Hakyar, but did you see that so because we call them digital research dropping sessions. We got together there at La Trobe University. We were library, ICT and research office. So I am in ICT, I used to sit in ICT at La Trobe University and we talked about starting the Hakyar. I was more in favor of Hakyar, but Andrew Williams from library and I think rightly so at the time he was at La Trobe University. He made this point at the start and then, you know, we all agreed and he convinced us that calling it Hakyar might, you know, put off people from humanities discipline and maybe calling it digital research dropping session would be a good idea. Again, I have no data that how well this sits in as compared to Hakyar. But then again, I mean, we have been seeing people from multiple different disciplines since then, who have come to get support. So a bit of a bit about La Trobe, so La Trobe is five different campuses, and we were based at Pandura campus and we used to run face to face physical in a physical space within library. We used to gather around so we were of seven. We started with seven people who were there to support researchers and we used to get two to three researchers and at max I think we got five researchers who came to ask for help in one of the sessions and there were sessions when we did not get any researchers to come to ask for help but we still felt that they were useful sessions because seven of us would get together and talk about how and what initiatives are being taken around digital research or research as we call it more broadly in our own areas. So it was still very useful. And in the COVID environment, we moved to online zoom based Hakyar digital research dropping sessions and we experienced that the researchers from regional campuses they appreciated that quite a bit and we saw a few people from regional campuses who had come along because we had that complaint in the past that because we tried to set up physical in Pandura and then get a coordinator in a librarian laser librarian in one of the campuses to set up Hakyar Hakyar were there. It didn't really work. Because if they had some Python related question and I was the only one who could answer and there is a researcher here so it was lots of complication, you know, lots of complications there. But in terms of people coming for support. So we have like multiple different topics so we had a promotion fly where we mentioned all the, you know, kind of possible topics or questions or areas in which we can help. We felt that maybe, you know, we could do like, you know, a road show kind of we can go to different faculties. So we have, we have discussed that idea we were never able to act on that. But then again I would be I would be interested to hear if somebody did that and how did how did they go with that. And now going onwards, what we have thought is that we'll at Littrow University, I still say we, even though I'm not a decisionist there, but but I'm still involved in some capacity. What we have decided is that we'll keep So we used to do monthly and in online environment we started fortnightly and we thought it was still worth it to do fortnightly. So we have decided that we would do alternate so even if we go back to face to face mode and we all go back to before COVID days which I'm not sure how possible is that we would still do one online and one face to face so one fortnight would be online and the other would be face to face to just facilitate the remote researchers. So that's that's pretty much it I guess and I'm happy to discuss more in questions. Great. Thank you very much for that Goulang. Okay, next up we are moving over to Goulang's colleague, Mariam. So Mariam Afzal Khan works as an research analyst at the University of Adelaide she's been in the role of slightly under a year. So she's all very new to running hacky house, which I thought was great because it gives us the opportunity here, the perspective of somebody who is quite fresh at doing this so over to you Mariam. Awesome. Thank you. Thanks, Matthias. And yes, you sort of hit the nail on the head that our experience at Adelaide and myself personally is a little bit different from Amanda and Goulang even though I echo everything that you guys are saying our experience is similar in some ways but we do have a unique perspective I guess because we didn't have a hacky hour until until the middle of last year. So we started in the middle of the pandemic, all online which which was scary and I'm sure I mean it was it was interesting. And I thought that I just briefly touch on maybe some of the things that we learned or some of the choices that we made when we were starting our hack hour in these in these circumstances and maybe somebody else is thinking of doing the same it will be it will be useful. So basically when we were starting our major concern was you know how what Amanda just talked about that momentum moment where the spirit of a hacky hour is that you have researchers helping researchers and you have that pure support network. So we were concerned when we were starting how to get to that kind of momentum moment where we have enough researchers coming regularly and and and helping each other out because there is going to be that interim period when we're starting and to get that to get that kind of traction. And so we so to kind of keeping keeping that concern in mind we decided to go with this like more structured approach, at least initially. So we do keep themes for a hacky hours we put them up a couple of hacky hours in advance for on on our webpage. And I think that really does help in getting researchers attention if they just saw a news item in a newsletter saying general, you know, catch up for researchers that might not attract attention but if somebody says these answers or matlab or HPC they're going to join in to see, you know what's happening and I think that that definitely has happened. But another thing that if we do have themes in advance. It helps us make sure that we can have some specialist expert, I don't like using the word expert but specialist or somebody who's experienced in that tool, or somebody who manages that service at at least for example for HPC the HPC admin or somebody who can. So we can sort of have this one one we can put in our com so that that attracts again researchers to say oh you can talk to the HPC admin face to face instead of from you know behind help to stick it with something. But also it also ensures that when a researcher does come and they do bring a question that we are there's a very high probability that we'll be able to solve that problem for them we don't want researchers to come in the beginning, and not find it useful not find a solution and then the hacker would start getting a bit of a reputation that it's not very useful so we were very kind of concerned about that and we wanted to make sure that researchers who do come do find it useful and do keep coming again and again. I think that sort of really helped us. Another thing that we did which is really successful and hopefully we're going to do more of it is that we do other than having specialist from within the university. We do invite external vendors as well. So we did a session for for example answers. So we asked the vendor which is lead they already do trainings at University of Adelaide so they had a couple of their trainers join our hacky hour. And that was I think a lot of that hacky hour I think went on for almost two hours. There was like a lot of discussion a lot of conversation. And again that was another way to kind of engage engage researchers and hopefully hopefully they found it useful and we'll be coming back again and again. So I guess that's what I'll say for now just that if you are starting out you may want to think about how you get that kind of traction initially. And I guess over time once you do get that that that critical mass. It can sort of go into a more organic unstructured kind of format which is hopefully what we'll see at Adelaide this year. Yeah I guess that's all I'll say for now and happy to talk about one day. Thank you very much for that Mario. All right then our final panelist is Christian Goodaker from positive social solutions. Now feel free to start sharing your slides there Christian. So Christian will tell us a little bit about what he does and might even touch a little bit on work he's done with some previous clients of his. Thanks very much. I can certainly relate to everybody who's on the panel as well. Over the last year I had I had the privilege of working alongside Syro during the COVID pandemic to really sort of scale their data school initiative which was a coding virtually structured peer learning course that ran over about six weeks to half days a week with both science researchers as well as enterprise staff that were working with data and digitally as well. So it's quite a diverse audience. And as you will know it's it's great everybody's in the training session but what happens before and after is really important in keeping people engaged and using those skills and feeling confident as they grow in their proficiency. And what we trialled alongside hacky hours so Syro did run monthly hacky hour webinars where they had a subject matter expert from a different domain or technology showcasing a really quick, relevant way to use that tool to do their work and like Amanda and Mariam have just said is putting a face to the name was really important in promoting some of those internal events. But these study pods that I've kind of tried to summarize in these five somewhat catchy blue boxes, I would feel ran alongside the actual forming the formal training program that we ran, and we're very much a drop in whereby the participants could come along, meet up with coaches who were alumni from previous data school programs, and get support in practicing their coding, as well as working on the capstone project that they're working with now that capstone project as well was in two formats so you had everybody from all these different science domains and research domains, working with a similar data set which made it very easy, or a lot easier for the coaches I think to provide that tuition within these breakout groups. But then they also started working with their own data both enterprise and research data which make a lot more complex. And that's where I feel some of these points here that are a bit of a lessons learned or summary are really important in that making it fun and friendly really makes it something that people want to want to talk about and come back to so making the things light in a very hectic workday really allowed those coaches and our team to make sure that people returned, even if I think what Maryam or maybe Amanda was saying if they just pop in to say hi or see what other people are working on. It's that sort of social connection which was really important and briefing and equipping those coaches so those alumni that were in these breakout rooms virtually mind you this is all virtual to support on average kind of between eight and 10 people that would come along with their own queries or questions for what they're working on was really important so that they had an enjoyable experience as a coach and didn't feel overwhelmed and also knew that there was back channels within Office 365 teams where they could ask for support from other coaches that might not have as many people in their breakouts for example, or our subject matter lead of data school Stephen Pierce, who is exceptionally proficient across the entire curriculum and skills. And as as technology changed throughout the year you saw this this kicked off very much in the in the thick of COVID in in in March, March and April, we kind of fully switched to to blending WebEx as the video delivery platform and Office 365 teams in Yammer, as two of the different learning hubs, we're really a really also able to make sure that what was happening in each of those breakout rooms was also posted within chat channels so that if you weren't in that room, you could poke your head in there after virtually and then have a look at the different code snippets that might also be useful to you so I found that was actually something really unexpected and surprising that benefited other other participants who were busy and might not have been able to make it either on the day, or kind of skip between the different rooms, and consistency I think I think that consistency what I think Miriam might have mentioned around having a program manager or lead to make sure there is a full calendar people have something to look forward to they know when it is and they've been consulted on what might be the best times and locking that in for a certain period of time and being open to also refreshing that as as the year goes on. So that's all for me I hope that's my five. Thanks for listening. Thank you very much for that Christian. Yes, you do raise a good point about Microsoft teams. I actually found it annoying the how if you are not in a video the video portion of the meeting you still get the notifications from the chat. But now in retrospect that's actually also a useful feature be able to see that chat log after the meetings finished for example or as it happens, because with zoom. As far as I'm unless you save the chat before the meeting ends or before you leave the meeting, it's all gone it just manages into the ether. So keeping that record is an interesting thing. Now, we haven't had any questions show up in the chat just yet, although Liz did share something I was going to get Amanda to talk about very, very quickly. And that is about your hacky hour handbook that you have on GitHub. It's just something we put together. It was our findings when we started putting hacky hours together of who are really good people to invite. What we found people asked for we did find that it was really good to have things like HPC and library and a whole heap of other areas involved as well. I just kind of wanted to share our lessons learned, and I put up a list of all the bookmarks that I use just day to day when people email and ask about different courses and stuff. I've put that up on GitHub as well. So, and the website that was mentioned before data to this is amazing. I put a link in the chat as well highly recommend to check it out because it shows you all different graphs and what the Python and R code is for it as well. So in the bookmarks. I've included a whole heap of different things like that. I'm always keen to see what else you guys have so please send it to me or just drop it in as an issue for the GitHub. More and more than happy to sort of ask any questions around that as well. Great. Thank you Amanda. Still no questions in the chat. Unfortunately, come on everyone. So an interactive Q&A session. Now, we've all been talking about how you've been getting some good results with your hacky hours. I wonder if anyone is going to be brave enough to let us know about a time or an instance where something went a little skew if and perhaps how you recovered from that or what the what the lesson you learned from that was anybody like to talk to that. I can talk about what we found. I found moving to virtual. We didn't find as good as being in on house. I found when we started doing it as virtual because we basically asked people what kind of questions they have and put them into individual rooms. Then you'd have wait times where people would be like well I need to talk to to like that Python person felt busy. We do it normally during the summer anyway, switching over to say all right well tell us what you're looking for and we'll do a virtual console. I do want to really get in person ones happening again because I think it's nice especially at the moment when you don't get that human interaction. I'll say that I know he's the virtual ones have worked really well so I think we're still playing around with that format as well. Great thanks Amanda. I think Christian you might have had you unmuted yourself. Yeah I'm muted myself. I think who lamb you mentioned before what happens when you had an experience where no one turned up to a certain session and I can relate we had lots of eager tutors or couple coaches lined up for multiple breakout rooms for example and everyone arrives in a plenary and then we triage people off based on what's going on and there's all there's a few cases where. Yeah, some of the eager coaches were left without anybody and in that case, we had a quick debrief on the side as the kind of coordinator myself and the coach but then also just give them the option to join another because that then alleviates the pressure on that other coach to have so many different questions or have all those people waiting for their for their time or moment in the spotlight I guess and just reinforcing that like turning up is important in case no one comes so make sure you're there next week. Rather than just call it back to a few coaches because you didn't have as many and then suddenly the next week has blown out into this huge participant number and you're racing around trying to message people to get 20 minutes of their time so yeah that's that's kind of how we got around that but it's it definitely will most likely happen at some point. Great thanks Christian. Now now Christian you already talked about using Yammer and teams and things like that, but a question that the others might like to have a crack that as well is, how do you keep the community connected between sessions. I know for us we run Twitter and we have a Twitter account we do a lot of posting around different resources we have we have available. So we do try to keep that, but we do do them weekly so for us it's not. So we do use that, whether that helps. For the tropes so we run a pretty packed training. You know calendar so we have, you know trainings coming up so in in trainings. We mentioned hacky hour and we have like lots of usual suspects coming to training and to hacky hour like drop in session as well. So it feels like we stay connected, but just just on the previous point as well that I think the value of just showing up. Just for the mentors as Christian said or like you know the helpers as as we say, like from different departments. We found was was really good, even if there is no one we are just chatting among ourselves that what's going on in research area in our respective respective departments. I think I think and everyone agrees that you know that we should keep coming and they do keep coming every every fortnight and especially in face of COVID. We, it was emphasized that you know just just getting together it was another avenue where we are meeting our colleagues when we are not face to face I think it's really helped as well. Great thanks. Okay, so another question I think somebody's interested, whether anybody has returned to doing face to face hacky hours yet, or whether everyone is still very much online and will be for for the time being has anybody is anybody planning to go back to face to face anytime soon. We might experiment with it at Adelaide just because you've never done face to face, but online has been working really well for us so we're not. I mean, we have no reason to it might just be a bit of an experiment just to see if there is a difference if there's a difference in engagement and so on. I mean I think others would have found the same it's worked really well for us for remote campuses, you know people coming in from remote campuses also really helps so when I was talking about having external vendors come. This is based in Sydney so you can have, you know, even mentors from elsewhere come in so I don't feel a particular push to go face to face. Great, thank you. Okay, another interesting question. And look this actually does go back to what I called this whole webinar peer research support. So question has anyone managed to get researchers to pick up and answer hacky our questions themselves, instead of research support staff. For us we have, we find that we've had a couple academics who just like to get out of their offices and come and have coffee we give them free coffee as well which is always a nice bribery. We do find that we get that a bit, but what we find as well is if we have a PhD students we've trained up for a year or two, they end up becoming ECRs and training up their PhD students. So we'll see labs, not so much growing up helping people outside their labs but labs internally evolving as well. So we have seen there's especially two or three major ones, but you can see their technology growing over time as well. So yeah, we do get a couple we probably get say, I don't know to academic come along and come in to help out maybe three. We do find as well it guys who aren't research or really research later also really like free coffee, they'll occasionally come on down and help with Python or something like that. Great, thank you Amanda. Okay. Christian this question specifically for you with the recording of the sessions did you find that people were more hesitant to participate. I know I was at the beginning. But no, I just, I posted a little reply there but in short, the agon food team that really pioneered data school at Syro back in 2017 18. They set up a clear code of conduct that mimicked or leveraged the carpentries philosophy and blended that with Syros code of conduct and the fair principles to really make learning more about the individual so this is bigger than you it's really important that we record this so that we can share it as a resource. And no, you know we had a really solid mix of people but keep, but I think when we explained how important it was to keep your camera on for that social connection element. Based on like virtual learning principles and best practices. It's, yeah, people just seem to participate we didn't have. I don't recall anybody that was really anti participating purely because of video or online delivery. Luckily. Okay we have a comment, not a question but a comment from aero Australian research organizations. So arrow maintains national registry research support and so they would appreciate it. If you were to submit yourself to the registry. So please email fill at arrow.edu.au that email addresses in the chat there as well. Okay. There's so sorry a nice long question. So this is around the road show idea that Golan mentioned. So this is one of our colleagues from Auckland similar idea to visiting different faculties and bringing happy our tutorials and talks themed about research methods and data of those faculties. Has anybody else have had any experience or thoughts on this kind of thing. So, if I would, I would also like to hear, but I'll just I'll just add a little bit so we thought about it at the start of last year. And COVID happened we couldn't do road shows but I think, like now in like COVID normal whatever it would be, I mean, I think it would be mostly online stuff. So, maybe there is an opportunity for the trope to go back and I think I'll restart these conversations in the future as well with the research analyst there and internal people there as well. So, possibly go ahead and do that and I'm happy to share it or share our feedback from from that in any future sessions. Thanks Golan. Was there anybody else who was, who's tried that idea in key about it. No, all right then. Tell you what, colleague from Auckland give it a go and let us know how you go. I would really appreciate anything that anybody else has to share as well. Please do so in the chat. Okay, we're still a heaps of time which is great because we are getting lots of questions in and hopefully I haven't missed any. Oh wait, here's one that I missed. We joined up the hacky hour with a research champions program where regulars take on a bit of a teaching role as well. Okay, not necessarily anybody on this panel. I was going to say we've had a few people we've met through hacky hours have come and help software countries but that's probably the closest we've gotten. Okay, so not necessarily a formal formal program just oh hey you seem useful let's come and help us teach. Okay. Great thanks for that guys. Okay, now we're up here we go. Another question about gender balance in participants and coaches. So, is it has there been or have you found that there is a good balance there. If not, have you done anything to address that or is there anything you have been able to do to address that. I have noticed that generally our hacky hours both I mean our coaches and the people who are attending the researchers they are it's a very male dominated group in general. That's just an observation something I've noticed I haven't actively done anything but I'm not sure if something can actively be done maybe we can on the on the coaches and but we can't. I guess orchestrate who shows up. Thank you Mario Christian. Thank you quickly Matias in sorrow last year, because the, the primary pool of coaches we were sourcing came from alumni from the skilling program called called focus in the recruitment of participants to that program. It was a very clear mandate for inclusion to make sure there was a balance mix of of gender as well as physical geographies given it's a national organization. So those because they were part of the selection criteria downstream our coaches were able to be quite yet balanced in that sense. And then our sort of secondary pool again, yeah it's kind of front and foremost especially, you know without diversity inclusion policies that are out there it's it's really important to see and be able to interact with people of all different backgrounds genders socio cultural backgrounds here. Great thanks Christian. Amanda, did you have anything to add to that before we move on. I, sorry. I have had the same experience as my am. And yes. Yeah, we haven't done a lot about it. I did meet. But I think we wish we need to look at that. For us. I just showed a link of some hack your statistics including some gender demographics from 2018 that we did up. Yeah we definitely still get a few more males but we do get emails in there as well I do tend to find they're a little bit quieter or something sometimes you have to mention a little bit to get a bit more chatty. But other than that. Yeah, I'm not. We do. I quite often refer. There's some female friendly meetups like women who code and stuff that I'll quite often refer to and from as well. I don't know if I don't know what else to do. This is a good question. I think we should kind of keep it pretty open to anybody and starts probably for this year of the last year sorry 2020 probably do look a bit better gender wise but it's because we've had a lot of life variance attempt, which do tend to be more so in the emails. So, but participant wise, still maybe a third to two thirds. Great thanks Amanda. Okay, now I was it. Sorry about coffee. Sorry scrolling up and down. Yes, Amanda, you again. So this idea of giving free coffee to people but also sort of backtracking me how long did you find it took to get that critical mass in your hacky hour. And also have you noticed, perhaps a bit of a drop off in attempts to tacky hours now that people can't get free coffees anymore. Sometimes it's not bad to get people there and on the first time I do find that they come back without and not always stressed about getting their free coffee so it's a nice incentive but I don't think it's an essential. It's just like a nice little thing that you can do. Well, it's the first question. Sorry. Oh, how long it takes. I'm a mentor to really Evan flow. So, and I find between the two campuses as well, it can be very, very different. I'll have, you know, a couple of months where I'll get a huge amount of Gold Coast people. And Nathan will be dead quiet like we do run the occasional hack. We don't get people or we'll get two or three and then I do tend to find after a little bit of that we'll get a momentum and have seven or eight. And they'll be consistent for a month or two or three, and then a holiday will happen or we break for Christmas or something and it dies down. So I have tried mapping academic calendars, public holidays to how many people we get a turn up week by week and there is zero patterns I can find. So it probably we found Gold Coast picked up pretty quickly because we hit a big group there that we're already doing quite a lot of Python and C and Linux. So whereas Nathan did definitely take a lot longer to ramp up. So yeah, there's no real strict rule pattern that I found occasionally you get a new group that you discover and they're all really into it and then they'll kind of train up for a bit and they'll add for a bit and then the new PhD students and come back so it is very dependent on what groups you have around that particular campus. Great, thank you. Now I see that in our chat we've someone sharing links to the TU Delft data champions program and linking that with data management support. And I do know that Curtin University for example also has a they started last year of research data champions program during upon members of the faculty to be sort of assist with the outreach and engagement with regards to research data management and other research he things within the faculty. Now, I believe that the questions have started to dry up, but we are at quarter to the hour. And I do like to finish meetings early to give everybody a good chance to have to get a glass of water before their next meeting. So I would first like to thank all of our panelists for attending today to be quite insightful. If you do have any further questions, or you want to get in touch with any of our panelists, feel free to email me matias.lifesatardc.edu.au and I will be emailing the recording of this session around to everybody who has attended. Now, if anybody has any work at the beginning of the year, if you have any requests for future webinars from the ARDC. Could you please let us know. So we've we've got our own ideas of what we'd like to do. But of course, we should also run things that other people would like to see. So please put your ideas in the chat. I'll leave this meeting open for a little bit so you can put your ideas down. You have raised your hand. I've raised hand for two reasons. One, I wanted to say something and second, I wanted to try this feature. So, yes, I just wanted to quickly share. So a colleague from Western Sydney, a research analyst from Western Sydney University, I was having a chat with him yesterday about this session. He unfortunately, I think we'll make it so on his behalf. So they are just starting the hacky hour and he mentioned that they are going the route of registering people for a specific hacky hour. And they got 70 people registered for that. And I was amazed by it. And I think that is another option to actually go just registration route and well, it could blow up on you very quickly. 70 people, how are you going to ever support that many people in one session. I think they are going to have multiple people and multiple sessions and whatnot. He was explaining the whole thing, but yes, that was his experience at Western Sydney. All right, 70 people registered. Do you know how many people showed up or has the session not happened yet? It hasn't happened yet. So it was yesterday. I think it's happening in a couple of weeks time. Yeah, okay. Well, it'd be very interesting to hear about how that has gone. So, with that in mind, thank you very much for coming. And yes, please do put your ideas for future webinars in the chat. I will hang online for a few minutes more to let you get your ideas out. But otherwise, thank you again to our panelists. Thank you to Liz for moderating the chat while I'm gas bagging. And thank you to all of our attendees for coming and listening and participating. Have a great day.