 You got me nervous man. Well, I was thinking the same thing I think it's up. Hopefully this thing is up if not well it is what it is, but bow. What's up everybody wants to get this brand man Sean and They ran a YouTube video we're gonna run this thing back man, we're gonna run this thing back We're gonna leave it all in there though Y'all can get us we run in the live for the first time everybody so as I said already It's your boy brand man Sean. It's your boy. Cory. He likes to say I'm I'll let him do his intro, but we we got a video today for you guys It was actually Cory's idea because I was doing my Sunday questions, right? And he asked me like is it too early to monitor when it's too early to Monetize a fan base or can't you monetize a fan base too early? And I know you got some thoughts on that yourself though. You didn't just ask it out the blue You know what I mean? So I think this is a topic There's a lot of arched artists for real for real interested in because I've seen people talk about it What's your opinion on just to get things started off? I don't see I kind of was I was kind of mixed between the first like when I've got The idea from I was talking to this artist in my DM just got named the one Martin So he asked me the same things like hey, man, you know, can you monetize a fan too early? Like I kind of have the fear of life. I try to sell them something They'll start a thing like all month about the money. You know, so I don't really care about this than the third And at first I was like no man You know, that's what a fan is a fan is someone that understands that you need money to do what you have to do So in that sense not so but just as I kind of like thought more deeply about it I was just kind of thinking about like even looking at like my own sales funnels and like other people sell It's fun. We're like there are a lot of people who will pitch the idea of like you can stop a long-term sale from trying to Capitalize off of somebody in the first few stages of like, you know, I've been really learning about you You know, so that's kind of got me thinking like, you know Is that true where like a fan comes in as a fan they're ready to buy or is that still kind of like that is Part of like the nurturing process of making the fan of like like, you know Is that a sub-level of a fan to where like they're just a fan who wants to support and then there's the extra level fan Who's like, all right now I'm ready to spend money with you But you know, you don't want to rent them off before they get to that point That's kind of what got me thinking about that question. Yeah, I thought about this stuff before because the standpoint I've seen a lot of YouTube channels right in general Well, I mean other various mediums too, but especially on YouTube, right? Just learning stuff on YouTube and you know, you come across a lot of these channels They have products to sell as a marketer, you know, I mean like as a business person entrepreneur I don't have any problem with people selling stuff But there's been channels where it just feels like like you only making videos to sell something Yeah, and maybe that's why you are making videos. You understand that it's the opportunity, but Like it can't feel like that. You know, I mean Everything can't be too salesy Right, right, right, right. It's like you literally are saying what you're saying right now Just to pitch this right here as opposed to kind of like educating and giving value first It's like it's really just it feels more like a fanatic or abating switch than a educate educate right now Do you trust me? I also have more products So I think it can definitely be too early And you know sometimes people might come in and do one source where they get so Earlier than another person because some people might know about you for a minute Then you come out with a product and then the first video or first Post of the people who you might be a sales video, but my philosophy is For one is how you sell right like so it's because there's various there's various levels All right when I had when I'm building what's the intent of every single piece of content that you create? Like if you move to give value first like your education do All right, that's easy because you can just make sure you're talking about stuff that matters, but if you're an artist That's like For one, why would people buy your stuff in the first place? Right, you know, you have to kind of turn people into fans because you're probably not gonna be like so fashionable that they want your stuff, but at the end of the day if you have When a matter of fact because I think it's hard to tell to actually define too early a lot of times of course If you have a fan of your music of your stuff That'll that'll make people buy but I think the way around it to make it doesn't feel like it You're selling too early because I think that's what people are scared of push your fans away You can sell at certain increments and be cognizant away with feeling like I'm not selling something or push It's something every week. Maybe I might offer free work Once a month right or once a quarter I might have a sale or I might offer stuff like exclusive things in relation to a project where I'm not just selling every day We're where it feels I'm only bringing you in because I'm gonna study something immediately. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I feel like yeah, you're right like I see certain artists talking about that But I mean like I said the whole thing they kind of they kind of got me stuck with the fan portion of it You don't just call anyone that comes and follows you and supports you like a fan You know like that fan is a whole different level of like category like it takes levels to get someone to a fan base So that's what kind of had me thinking of I don't think it's too early to monetize a fan because They are a fan for a reason like I'm saying like fans are the people who understand it like okay You bring value into my life, you know, so I've decided you are someone who brings enough value into my life I'm willing to Consistently support you whether that be I stream your song a couple times a day I'll put you on to my friends or you know at the highest highest level. I buy something from you Now I put we put money into your pocket that you're able to continue bringing me value and I mean I Mean I guess I could kind of just take it off of kind of like the stuff that we do was like I saw people very early on come from China. Yo, can I buy something for you like I like it, so I'm just thinking like Well artists it has to kind of be the same thing Well, if someone came to you and was like, yo, I like you, you know, can I can I buy something to show my support? Am I able to donate something or can I buy a sticker or a t-shirt or something? Then I feel like you as an artist are justified me at least giving them the option It's like you said like I feel like as long as an artist isn't being like too silly like if you have your Merch link in your bio, but you're still dropping them songs. You're still dropping videos Continent want to see you're engaging with your fan base. You're actually putting in that work Yeah, I don't think you know, it's a bad thing to try to make money off of your 2000 followers if 15 of them were down for it, you know something like 15 of them like I do right now Let me get one of these t-shirts. I get what you're saying and and really I think that's where it's important That you just appreciate because what I was talking about earlier You're right is more of just bringing somebody down the sales funnel period and really kind of converting them to a fan Like if you're being too pushy when someone first doesn't know you you might prevent them from becoming a fan but somebody's already a fan then They already saw that they like you they rock with you So now you can you to me you pretty much can't monetize that too early and the people who are complaining about certain stuff Those are likely not gonna be a fan anyway, and at the end of the day there's gonna be some people who want you to never be Like a capitalist about the situation and you can't do those people can't support their career anyway So it's like as all fans are good fans right like you just eat what it is So like that's one thing and then from the other standpoint As long as the option there as you said Like and people have the choice because at the end of the day I might go to a concert and at a concert. I see one performance. I'm like, yo, I'm gonna support you I will say don't get that money. Have your merchants your concert. Yeah, so like am I too early? I might not even be a fan fan You know Because I'm just the type of person that's like, yo, man This person's cool. I rock what they do Hopefully they can do what they're doing. Let me buy a $10 shirt up off you. Yeah, that's that's cool, too but it's one have option prayer and make people aware that the options are and to go like over over sales mode and say alright or To get how some artists get like where they actually get to the point where they're raging about people not supporting them and stuff like that Like those are the things that will come on it right? Yeah, exactly one kind of feels like they're like Begging their fan base for money in a sense. That's how I don't know That's how I feel when I see like larger artists like yo, man, like y'all suck y'all don't buy anything I'm like damn wrong. You're saying you're gonna tell me I suck because Artists who and be like y'all stand up y'all stand up like y'all English y'all cheer me Couldn't look at your phone. So I like that energy just doesn't exchange That's all you bro. Like we look it's the best I could do man. Like my phone in my hands the best I can do Yeah, I mean I guess So I guess like at at what point at what stage And our is that journey would you recommend that they start to try to They're a number that you would recommend they hit first They're like, you know, like maybe like a content objective Like, you know, don't try to make merch until you know, you've at least put out XYZ amount of songs videos or you think it's more of like a personal thing like more of like you you scan the landscape You're fan base. You kind of feel one is hot, you know send feel when it's cold Like when is it right to put something out? Yeah, like my whole Ethos has always been first understand that you have fans in the first place Well, I get to that point where you say, alright, these people are engaging at a higher level Or there's a certain amount of people that rock with me There's gonna be a certain point where you sell stuff just to be able to have a for real proof of concept That you got fans for real for real. Yeah, but like my my biggest thing is Let's say Like I'm an artist I drop a video and I got a lot of views, right? So but we know that the impact and having a deep fan base and deep interest is different. So It's hard. I never I never always thought about her putting a word before you know what? Alright, put it this way if you are going do the fan journey and do the fan story. Yes, it's I would say Wait till you feel like you can sell at least 10 items, okay? Like just and even do maybe a first test on some small scarcity type offer We got 10 t-shirts and see how fast those 10 t-shirts give up Or a we got 10 items and there's but there's two ways to approach it too Because I've always told people personally because I'm thinking just from a business standpoint more than a fan Validation standpoint, I don't think it's that bad to often end up off too early for the end of the day If you don't buy it's just you just realize you don't have or if like you thought but at the but a lot of people artists need too much money on merch or products Before they even have a fan base to buy it. So you're just sitting with inventory. Yeah, that's what I'm typically more concerned about I'm like all the effort that you need to put in the tours marketing or music and all that other stuff That's where my mind immediately usually which is and it's so Waiting for the more the big the things to take bigger investment either doing a smaller quantity or offer it before Get in the tour or I would say you can offer stuff that has nothing to do that doesn't require you to put any heavy investment almost immediately I don't know if your artist They have like a there's like a digital special thing that you can offer anything like that I'm afraid of a lot of other types of merchant and sales that artists can make that I've never even thought of as far as Cool things that kind of stuff to me. You can offer just a new just have in place Like I I don't really think it's a it's a complete science to it because I'm I would I would be Yeah, I would be kind of doing critical because I know it at certain a lot of things that I'm built Like sometimes you just I'm I'm throwing out stuff just to see and get a pulse And then I evolve from there. I'm like it can sound about it. It's too early or not I'm just trying to get a Realistic data set of what it is at this point, you know, I mean, and then I could work from there now I got something to move off of but that's that's kind of how at the end of day I fall all the way back today. It's like Look, I don't care about if I fail or not I just need to know what what do I have fans like I think I do or not Yeah, we can start with engagement, but then okay, it looks like I got fans, but what do I really got? Yeah That's kind of space. I'm in to it was like it's one of those things like you don't really know until you know You know say it's like you saying like you could think oh, you know My fans don't care to get much me right now You put out something and then 50 of them by and then you'd like you said now you know like oh shit There are people out there who are willing to spend money on me Let me see how else I could capitalize off of this and use that money to reinvest it back in blah blah blah Um, I didn't think about the digital merch stuff. I meant this artist once who was selling like motion wallpapers Mmm, I thought it was really cool. I think he was selling for like four or five dollars. I don't know how he got it Yeah, if I some like nice as graphic designer, but like That's that's kind of what? Um, I was telling my one of my own artist friends is like one of his videos is going viral and I was a man You should attach something to this video in case people see this and go Oh, I want to buy something from you like the videos movies done like maybe like a hundred K in like a month It's something just off of him doing like a little bit of promotion with it Oh, man, that's what I was telling him. I was like man, even if it doesn't have to be a t-shirt You don't say it doesn't have to be good It doesn't have to be you don't have to scare them away with a sixty five dollar hoodie price tag Because that was scared me away like I just learned about you bro It was I just learned about you five minutes ago $65 hoodie on me but similar to the story of the guy of the people you've seen you met the show or artists that you meet It shows like, you know, I'm like five dollar like you know, I'm like seven dollar like you know, I mean I See artists sometimes they'll get donations from people because they don't have anything anything to sell So I don't know I guess I guess I'm calling the fans of like doing it just to see because it's like you said like and Especially with the way I think a lot of merchandise is set up now Well, a lot of these people are doing like the fast print shops We're like you don't really have much to lose to try it out like you go on some of these sites I'm like a like a I can't think like a print full of something Put up a couple designs. Like you said put in the water to see who's willing to buy it Yeah, you know, oh, you know only three people bought my t-shirt Maybe I don't need to invest my money into going to get some hoodies made You know, I should invest this money into marketing my video or marketing or making a new song or something like that but I don't know I think I think I definitely fall on the line of like If you have people Engaging with you if you have people who are interacting with you and not just like one time Like you keep seeing the same face like over and over like this person's always in your comments on your YouTube videos He's in your DMs. They're Liking you see them sharing your songs in the stories and you know But I didn't see you know see if see if John want to buy a teacher At the end of the day, man, you just got to test it out because sometimes I mean some of the stuff you buy or sell I mean you try to sell it might not be the right product anyway Different type of merch or you throw a few levels on it. Hey, I got a five ten forty dollar product He was one day by that. They might buy this in Man, it's just all information for me I Don't know. So, do you know anybody you feel like have you ever encountered somebody you felt like they felt something too early? Oh, yeah, definitely. Well, maybe not too early, but I think the price points for Some artists are definitely way too high like um, I Have this this artist friend out here. I'm not gonna say his name, but he dropped the merch line and His cheapest item was like 45 for a hat and then it goes up to like his hoodies are like 85 I'm like, hey bro, you know, I like you. You know, you know, you know, I like you, but There's no way somebody's gonna pay for your father for hat and they just learned I'm not gonna say there's no way because I want to put it out there But there's a very unlikely chance that someone's going to buy a 45 dollar hat for you unless they have been with you for a minute You know, I've known about you for a while. You know, I'm kind of skeptical about it So it's like, you know, I can imagine what it's like to the person that just saw you at a show You know saying for the first time. Oh, yeah, bro. I like you. Can I get something? Yeah, my hoodies 85 like I mean, you know, can I just get your Instagram or something and I look at that? Like I look at it more. So it's like Maybe there isn't necessarily maybe it's not necessarily too early to capitalize on the fan But it's definitely definitely like price points. You should be aware of or where you are in your fan base You know something like like $85 a hundred dollars like like major label artists like really big superstar acts charge that much for their merch You know, I won't buy a hundred dollar hoodie from Drake. I'm definitely not buying a hundred dollar hoodie from you know This art side is met for the first time. So I feel more so like the price point is what matters in your fans And like like you said, like, you know, if you only got two three thousand followers You only maybe got 70 to a hundred real fans. Tell them some small stuff It's to show them like hey guys, you know, if you want to support me outside of the way you're already supporting me Stick out my website, you know go by a poster go by a Wallpaper, you know go by download to my song that I told them buy it, you know something that There's a affordable within that affordable to those things that are there early on because Most of them have not invested the time into you yet to feel like you're worth Some of the things that you're charging. So I feel like that's more important to be my life be mindful of those price points Like like be like be honest with yourself like before you I know you want to make some money Like I know y'all are like itching to put money in your pockets But like honestly ask yourself like if my favorite artist was trying to sell me this without about this And if your answer is no for your favorite artist, what makes you think that someone who just heard of you was going to pay the same thing for you Yeah, cuz that's cat like Like no nobody wants to feel like your lick Yeah, it's like and a lot of artists realize that in the beginning Like you might not turn a heavy profit like you don't don't look at merch Especially as like a heavy profit like look at it as marketing at first. Yeah, you can build a margin as you go but Yeah 45 So I would say like the biggest things at least ever what we talked about so far is kind of like one if not Necessarily are too early once people are already considered fans more than anything is measuring Engaging like with the level of their fandom by various price points at the end of day. You just got to experiment And then make sure obviously you're not throwing You're not begging for stuff or shooting down your fans because you just because they aren't buying of course Of course exactly It's just like I look at like Hulu Netflix, you know, they they rear you in with the free stuff similar to your content your music See are you a $6 fan? Are you gonna pay six a month or are you one of our more premium fans who wouldn't pay 1299 no I look at the exact same way like um If you are an artist who's gotten to a point where you do have fans like you can honestly look at your engagement Look at the people interacting to sell all have some fans Then the next step is figuring out like all right, but how deep into my fandom are they like are you $20 are you a father 20 other fan? Are you a 25? I'll just fan, you know, are you a fan willing to buy a ticket for my show? Let me know, you know, all right, because I even now I feel like artists now look enough to have They can just ask you know something like they can just go into the Instagram story But you know if I've made a t-shirt with you by of course most of them are gonna say yes Because I just want you know, I want you to feel nice about it But at least gives you an idea, you know, like you have 10,000 followers or 10,000 people keeping up with you and You know 500 of them like nah, bro Like we don't want that. Yeah, like all right, you know take that take that into consideration Like you're not you just haven't built that relationship You're like you have not done the things that you need to do to make them feel like you know I'm ready to buy something for you. I'm ready to purchase Yeah, and make sure when people bought from you that you See who those people were because you know, I say there's 10 t-shirts or sell like like my example If like five of those people end up being, you know, you're homies I mean honestly man Because if if you're an artist who who is concerned about not looking like they're about money at first I Wouldn't sell it to my friends at first like I would just be like amen I appreciate y'all, but this is it's like you said like this isn't about the money This is more about gauging where my fan base is like, you know I know I know mom and sister y'all want to support me and maybe t-shirts live But I need to see if I can move t-shirts within the people that I'm trying to establish my foundation You know across on top of them. That's real. Yeah, like this is like man Let me see like let me see first y'all can get the next order Stuff like that Like look just got nothing to do with your personal interest already know Yeah, I mean all right, so Yeah, I guess that does kind of answer my question like I feel better about it I got a little more clarity on it like I gotta hit the guy back in my billions of time like a row If you feel like you read I feel like it basically boils down to if you feel like it you're ready you feel like it's time you know just Make that decision based off of like realistic data really don't know just because you feel like it lit Just because your friends are telling you you know something just because you have One song that's doing numbers, you know You have to really take like a real assessment of your landscape and ask yourself like, you know Do I have enough people? Coming to me to why support it. I mean, I live strongly about it like two to five percent kind of thing. It was like I don't know just a lot of things. I've looked at pertaining to like sales It always seems like whatever your big number is like you can maybe convince 25% of people I just got that feel to me. So I mean, I don't know I Guess I guess it's just it just comes down to like when you when does it feel like it's ready? Like when do you feel like your base or just ask your base because they're gonna tell you like you ask your fans a question They would gladly let you know the answer to it. I would gladly tell you Yeah, we want that or nah, bro. Keep that go back to the drum board. He's back Like I've seen comments. I've seen comments on the fan on the artist videos We're like they'll be talking about one thing and the fans like man, you need to shut up with it, bro We were on this like you ain't even a dress this year. I feel like it's the same They'll let you know that like hey man, you out here dropping t-shirts and we've been asking you about this video You tease the month ago. Like what's up with that better give you an idea like Time to be doing this. I got other things Hey, that's super real man, cuz I always tell people to use your fans with feedback on with the process You should create like I got our homeboy man do got hundreds of thousands of like People on YouTube, I know a few people on YouTube like this one in particular You know, yeah, he got a super strong fan base hasn't dropped anything for sale All right, and I'm like, I know you'll be able to get you'll be able to get something out of it Well, I'm not you already got a start huge like that's why I said immediately like 10 t-shirts Like I had thought about that because we had that conversation like brothers Like you just to get used to the process throughout the t-shirt or if it's not team t-shirts I literally engage your fan base at yoga's really appreciate your support I was thinking about dropping for merch ideas or some merch of some sort But I would like to know what you guys would want to see and we're just gonna have like a voting process Or I'm gonna take some ideas and then we'll come up with something together so include them in bargain And then it might not be a t-shirt It might not be a headband or dad head or whatever it might be something Completely different as you might not even came up with so one you get an idea that you wouldn't came up with two But they bought into the process and they feel even more closer to me and then three obviously that cat so That's something to consider for everybody. Whatever it's standpoint. You're all right. Yeah. Yeah and sometimes I Guess sometimes I feel like You can monetize certain experiences before you can monetize like products So like I guess similar to how an artist made Send-out like exclusive show material blog material to their email list I think that some of that content can be monetized for like a small fee Like I have a friend who runs a YouTube channel on like a graphic design YouTube channel And he has everything so through patreon like through donations and where it's like, you know, you donate $2 You'll be the first person to see this video before it goes off And I think no like something like that. That's not really invasive That's not that's not a large amount that you're asking for from your fan base You know, like if I if I thought you were cool and you told me, you know, man Hey, you know, $2 and I'll let you see my video before it comes out in a month and I like you enough It's like, okay, you know, cool. Like I'm paying for the experience. I'm paying to be able to I'm paying for exclusivity I'm paying to be one of your first fans that can come in the comments I'm like, oh, y'all late already saw this, you know, Sam So then you've made me an exclusive part of their fan base Like I'm in a different level than the rest of them and I think like Yeah, I just really feel like if if an artist feels like they can't move merch test it out with something like that Like something like just test it out with something small They almost just feels more like a donation and then you're just giving them something So it doesn't feel too much like a donation and then kind of like gauge it out from that like see, you know Cuz I'm also a big fan of if there's one person out there that's willing to spend money on you That means there are thousands of people out there that are willing to spend money on you But like you said, you just have to present them with something that they are willing to spend money You know, everybody doesn't want to have I don't wear hats. I wouldn't buy hat for you But you know, I may buy that wallpaper we talked about earlier like I may buy it for you So, yeah, I like the idea that wallpaper I see I gotta look more into Yeah, I mean look, I know some graphic designers. Well, let me know I got you I mean, I'm not even thinking about my yeah, we'll talk. We'll talk with man, I The thing I say about The idea though when you're talking about the patreon people saying Content earlier come be real with you like I'm even from my situation People have told me forever like I was probably only like five six months into the youtube channel Where they were like, yo, you should monetize video. I'll give you you should monetize video First of all, I had people tell me like I shouldn't make videos in the first place where you you should charge for this information You should charge for this information But then after that like it was like, I don't want to like do the patreon model for myself I couldn't see it. I get real weird about just taking donations of people and money for people I'm just weird that kind of stuff. So I know a lot of people probably feel that that way Especially when you talk about the monetize early and not one of the time people love but Like I say that to say out of all the donation models of things I've thought about just because I have to think through it at least for donations and patreon and different types of models That one probably sits with me the best Like so and I saw I say that because I'm like at the end of the day You got to find something that works for you personally too that you're comfortable with especially for these a lot of these artists We got to realize aren't certain people are used to making transactions So you might want to just find something that feels low effort for you Whether that's an event or a little meetup a small pop-up experience, right? If your audience is low enough live enough like for me, that's something that I would consider Like oh, yeah, I'm gonna drop in contact before and a month before because that's why there is value in it And I could see people getting value from getting content earlier But uh, but like I said because Compared to other things that I was hearing or people were telling me I should do I wasn't liking it So definitely figure out what works for you what you're comfortable with and what makes sense to you You know, because I know everybody's not Everybody nobody wants to feel greasy about you know Like the way they were asking nobody wants to feel like that salesperson, especially when you are the artist but at the end of the day Hey, you might just gotta have to have to get a bulldog manager or a home before for me Put in the mind doing a push for you so that way You don't even look like you're the one asking a lot, right? You sit back chilling and you got this other annoying person doing the hustling for you But then they get the numbers like that that's another Like dynamic that you can build for yourself as well If you just aren't somebody who can be self-promotional or don't know how to do that person Yeah, that's right. I don't know man. I feel like look y'all watching this y'all watching this just Power through it because like I said it's weird for everybody at first to sell something to somebody But remember they only spend that money with you because they want to That's how I feel about it like hey Enter the decision to they had to click. Hey, buddy. Ask you a couple of times before the transaction goes through Are you That's true as hell too I know one's going to support you they don't want to support you like no one is just out here Wondering the world looking for random people to support. I don't feel I support Unless they just buy in 20s to the front row just so nobody can be sitting there. Yeah. Well, that's what's that one do Uh, Mike screvelli. I feel like he would do something like that I feel like he would do something like that bro. I see these t-shirts so you can never sell them again. Oh, all right Yeah, I think that dude with Jill. I'm pretty sure I do that. Yeah, I think he's he's out here. Well, he's out of here Yeah, boy You got anything else for this topic I think we flip on the front on enough angles next time we do something like this Well, I have to probably like make a live chat through the chat available so people can talk with people during but This is the first time we just had to knock it out. Yeah. Yeah, you know, we know we gotta test it out We gotta get the kings out first. I know I need to sit somewhere with some better lighting next time Well, man, you're standing on me too, man. You know, I got my black shirt He got the he got the outfit on man Man, look, this is the going out hoodie, bro. This is the gold run errands to run back into the crib before it's too late It looked like you posted up that's the post it up on the wall hoodie Hey, man, look So one of us gotta be drippy on the channel, bro. One of us gotta be drippy on The only thing I will have out of it says man, like we said just And when in doubt just ask just ask they will let you know Like I've learned that if nothing else is people will be glad to share you what you there too sense on what they think you should do People are glad to tell you Don't be afraid to use that to find out. Yeah, that's all That's real, man. I completely agree and hey as always We would love to know what you guys think in the conversation below Do you like this video? Go ahead and like button. You like you might as well share it and if you're not subscribed You know what to do Hit that subscribe But oh, yeah follow code your favorite on ig and follow going man shine on ig as well. If you ain't already what you're doing. Peace