 Okay. There we go. We're recording. Got it. Okay. Well, since we got the recording and I see four after the top of the hour, let's let's rock and roll here. Thank you for joining the 20th of April here 2023 supply, Chyper ledger supply chain and trade finance special interest group. And as you see in the title there, thank you, Alicia for putting together here. We're going to talk about ebook planning. First off is all hyper ledger events, webinars, etc, etc. They're all are welcome. And we value everyone's input. So please speak up, share, put stuff in chat. And there's plenty of stuff as we go on here. And continue with this project and our other thoughts as we go along. Also anti trust policy. Please don't share anything confidential, competitive, etc, etc, since these are open meetings. And since it's going to be on YouTube, I guess that makes about as open as it can be out there. If it's going to be on YouTube. But you know, so that's that. So let's see here upcoming events here. April 20 today, one to three Eastern time, if you're interested, you can do the GS one US supply chain visibility summit. And then, well, let's go to announcements here, I'm going to do one before a tool, we turn it over to you here. NIST, so the National Institute of Standard Technology here in the United States, has a manufacturing supply chain traceability prod project that they're trying to establish some patterns. And they're in the comment period for their document. So if you click on that link, you'll go to their page, and then you can see what they're planning to do. And you can provide some comments if you also choose. So with that, let's go to a tool and on who's a PhD candidate. And he has he has some great stuff he's trying to figure out with what's going on with blockchain and supply chain. And he has a survey out there that is in the link there. It's also on the wiki in the mailing list. And we thought we'd give them a few minutes here to share some of what he's trying to do and what that work what the result will be. So tool, it's over to you. Thanks a lot and thanks everyone for being appreciative of providing this time. So let me quickly start sharing my screen. Since I can see this is getting recorded, can we stop the recording reason being is because since some of the elements are still not published. And I, you know, I want to ensure that, you know, first it get published as part of the paper and then we can record it. So that's the only thing which I have a request. So can we do that, you know, and we can start recording. Good point Thomas. Thank you. Sure. So thanks. Thanks everyone. So as I said, the survey is basically targeted for a set of people who have the background knowledge of blockchain and people who have a flavor for supply chain, people who are in finance domain, but then they have a view of how things work across, right? Because supply chain is basically origination of things from, from the raw material, you know, moving across the value chain, right? So that's how if they have view and if they have, you know, they have their own sort of things, you know, knowing about the supply chain, and obviously all of us are, you know, blockchain experts, right? So they can, they can be those people who can fill the survey. Yeah. So it's not, it's not only restricted to, to supply chain professionals, but then it is restricted to all set of professionals who have the working on blockchain. Yeah. That's, that's how I encourage other people to come to talk to us. Yeah. Beautiful. Well, thank you Atul for sharing your work here. And again, folks, it'll be in the agenda so that you're able to access the survey, share it with others out there so you can get the responses and come back. Atul, I invite you to stick around here because we're going to be talking about ebook and success stories and we're trying to filter the, the wheat from the chaff or the, the, the sort of stories from the real stories out there. Maybe that's a better way to say it out there. So before we go on, so thanks Atul. Let's continue on. Ling, if you'd like to introduce yourself to the group here, we're glad that you're here and look forward to hearing, hearing what your thoughts are, what you're looking for. Hi, it's my first time to be here. My name is Ling W Chen. I'm the founder and CEO of Ledger Funding, a blockchain fintech company that democratizes the working capital solutions. And we've been an early adopter for Hyperlegic Fabrics since released 0.6 since 2016. It's been a long journey. And I finally have been able to join this group. So I'm looking here to, to learn. Beautiful. Yeah, welcome, Ling. That's great. You're actually building a solution and and even better. I like that you're still with us. You're still with it six years later. You started in 2016. You're still cranking. Yes, keep on going. Beautiful. And it's called Ledger Funding. If you want to put the link in the chat, that's fine here. So let's use that as a springboard because you've got a real solution there. And it has some luck or some, I guess, relevance for what our next topic is. Let me share my screen here. And there we go. Share. Okay. So last time, I'll just do a quick recap here. Last time we talked about a goal of our SIG to create a form of an ebook. And don't think ebook in terms of writing 100 pages. Think ebook more in terms of 20 pages with pointers to existing content that's out there. And there's already a couple prototypes or templates that we can use. You see in the link that's there, the capital markets, SIG created one around central bank digital currencies. And then the Hyper Ledger and India crowd, they created an ebook to represent some of a lot of stuff that's going on in Hyper Ledger in India. Pernubu, you may have been involved with that for all I know in some way, shape, or form. So in any case, so now we want to do something very similar to for supply chain and trade finance. And so I'm going to switch what screen I share here. So out of last time's meeting on the 6th of April, we said that one of our goals for this meeting is to start listing some of the projects that are out there that have some either we know they have success or they may have some success in their suspects that we could represent as using some flavor of Hyper Ledger in some way, shape, or form. It doesn't have to be fabric, it could be anything, but it uses pipe paper ledger fabric and it has some level of success out there in the marketplace there. And so the good news is is over the last two weeks, I'm just going to scroll through it. And here what I'll do is for those of you who would like, I'm going to take this link and I'm going to put it in chat here, send here, let me get rid of that. Okay, so there's probably about 15, 16, lots of comments that people have put in. Jeff, thank you for being active and you even use and chat GPT to try to come up with some answers on it. So you went the wrong way. That was a really good learning. Just watching what you and Tomas were exchanging on that, that was useful to me. It's amazing how it throws answers at you and then you challenge the answer and apologize to you and says, well, how about this? Then Tomas found the same thing and then I throw it off course. It's like, okay, what am I using here? So it did come up with some good answers though at the same time, but it's the knowledge is also limited to 2021. And it tells you that many times. Oh, it does tell you that. That's two years ago. That's interesting. I think it's September 2021, but still yes. Yeah, it's working. It stops at 21. Yeah. So the good news is, is we have lots of lots of thoughts here that are potential topics for us to share in our e-book and the links that you see here underneath it are external public content that we could use for representing here. Here's what the value was associated with this story here. So I'll show, you know, there's DLT Labs. I mean, these guys have presented on our SIG back, what was it? A couple of months ago, something like that. I think it was in February, one day presented. In Ling, you're welcome. Obviously, a lot of any of these links, you're welcome to go and look at them and you can see some of the previous presentations that we've had here. In DLT Labs, there's also a Harvard Business Review article that talks about what they've done and, you know, they've done a couple of presentations with us. So, you know, they feel like one that, yes, we want to highlight out there. And then there's others, Recycle Go. I don't know much about this one. UAE Trade Connect. These folks presented last year. Actually, they presented Trade Finance in 2021 and in last year they presented here and they have a successful story there. You know, I did some research on Moby and I even sent an email off to the person and I, or what the person who presented their battery verification numbers. And I'm not seeing anything. So if anybody has any sense of what's going on in Moby, that they have something that's an actual application, you know, bring it up, bring it up here. But right now I'm feeling like Moby, there's probably not anything that fits our bill with what we're talking about. Someone different from Moby presented to the social impact, say a few years ago. So I can reach out to her and check in as well to see. Okay, that'd be great. That'd be great. That'd be great. Trade Walls presented last year. So, kind of a trade lens clone, but they're still in business. So that's good here. GSBN, Global Shipping Business Network here. I'm not sure who put in Voight. We don't really see exactly. I guess we should have put names on who put these things in, but we have some other ones, Voight, Green Token, Renault presented a couple years ago, and Fujitsu Trash Track and Trace. So those are some examples of what we're put in here. And then Nick Jones put in Farm to Plate. So I'm just kind of going through here just to kind of share a little bit. And you can look at the comments. They use fabric. Okay, it looks like they got some value out there. And they used GS1 as I pointed out. Jeff, you had looked at this green chain. I don't know if they had this. Does this look like something to check, GPT, come back with good answers on that one or? I didn't bother because I actually worked with them on this thing. So I know all about it. Okay, cool. Okay, good. Okay. So they have some real ROI and value that. Oh, sure. Beautiful. Okay, beautiful. That's great. Yeah. It's an active site that's been out there and is still used. Yeah. Tom, I just quickly looked at the page history and it looks like Andrea added the avoid conscious finance. Okay. So Andrea is not able to be on here and length your perspective. We have multiple co-chairs here, Andrea, Frostinini over in Italy is he has more of a trade finance background. So if you haven't talked with him, we should get you linked up with him so that you understand, you know, his thoughts and he understands what you're thinking. And we can then work together more closely. Sure. But thank you, Alicia, for digging in there and finding out who did what. I love that page history feature. I found it very useful. Cool. Okay. Jeff, you want to talk about Chemcha in India? Do you know anything about it? Yeah, it's great down below. I feel it great down. I've got the context right there. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, Chemcha is the one you're talking about. Yeah. Okay. Is this something that you know personally or hey, it looks like a pretty good suspect for us to include? It looks like one of the good suspects. I don't know. So I know a lot about cosmetics. There's a reason for that. And so... We'll save that for the next round of conversations. Why do you know about cosmetics? Since you worked at an oil company? Well, I just connected to oil company, oil bases for cosmetics. Makes no sense. I worked in a refinery segment for a year or so. I do know a lot about cosmetics. Where was I? Oh, so yeah. Again, that one's out there. It's running. I didn't chat GP articles, but I thought maybe it might be something with, especially in the United States lately and with range of elements. It's kind of interesting that that kind of hooks into there. So it goes across the supply chain, but I looked at that's a candidate. I haven't dug into it, but they got just fabric. Sounds really interesting. Yeah. Okay. Good. Renu, do you know anything about Chemcha and it all? At least not know them. That's what I can see. I've heard the name that they have started using it across, but then yes, I connect with them. So yeah, thanks. And maybe I'm not thinking maybe it's broader than India. I'm just going back as based on the .in there, which is probably a wrong assumption there. Renu, any thoughts? Well, I'm looking at the site right now. I haven't been, I haven't seen this. I'm just trying to get grass as much as I can right now. Okay. I think they are into chemicals. So I just reading about it. I haven't heard about it earlier. Okay. Got it. Okay. Well, that's good that you're checking into it here and you can see we have some different eyes on it. And then L'Oreal recommended by ChatGPT, but I think the, I think what you said, Jeff, is there's there's not, I gave it enough because there's no detail on, you know, what actually is happening. Yeah. And so I mean, I spent a few hours on this thing because it was just interesting with ChatGPT, but I'll tell you this. They're out there using blockchain. It almost seems like they was out there and they're hiding their solution. But L'Oreal is also out there working a lot of small startups with blockchain to do NFTs. They're, they're heavily into it. You got to look at, see what they're up to. So why that's hidden on the blockchain that they use? I don't know. Maybe that's ChatGPT's problem that was out there in 21 and they put a lot of info. I don't know how they did it, but some of the links that they gave me about looking at how they, thinking about, ChatGPT came out about four different links that said there's L'Oreal and in partnership with IBM is using Hyperledger. Everyone's seen one of those I clicked. I got a 404 page that exists. Really? Yeah. Like the pages were full. Interesting. Yeah. One thing I can say around the cosmetics industry, looking at all the different companies, I'll tell you one thing is they're a really bad need of a global solution, a comprehensive global solution. They're all over the map. This is half a trillion dollar industry. They need like a global solution sitting out there, blockchain solution for the NFTs involved with cosmetics and just some stuff around the NFTs. And I think it's probably even the track and trace, right? Track and trace. Yeah. Well, that's a must, but just supply chain sustainability and so forth around that coming from the source, but also cosmetic companies are now getting heavily into NFTs as an example. And I think it's Claybourne. I think that's the one. Came out with a lipstick called Dark Honey and it's sold out right away and the customers are getting obsessed with the game. They auctioned NFTs off with pictures of the lipstick container and both wrap and also allow them to have the NFT and when it came in stock, they got right away. They get their personal line to get that. It's this lipstick. I don't want to spot the lipstick, but in any case, and it also allows them to go with one of those stores and get three makeover. Okay. They're doing it all on NFTs. So they've got all kinds of stuff at Cosmetic World, but I just see it cut through it. It seemed like supply chain trade plans have an offering for the cosmetic industry because while they're in need of it, as they're blotters trying to get involved in it, but again, I found some stuff that was just piece of it. So I put these out as candidates. I don't want to keep messing around with throwing all these different ones out there. I looked at a bunch of cosmetic companies because again, I worked in refinery. Actually, I worked in the refinery in the United States. It's the biggest producer of basis for cosmetics. That's why it's in Whiting, Indiana. Yeah. It was FDA controlled lab and I was involved with our colorimeters or colors and stuff. But interesting area that really wants to do blockchain has a lot of use cases for it, but they seem to be scrambling around that knowing what to do. Yeah. It was interesting research. Yeah, that's good. Sounds like you found some good stuff there. But blending into that, the final one here is this Everledger. They're out there and they are luxury brands, whether it's car, it won't be cars with purses or cosmetics or name a jewelry. This company is out there and they use, as you can see, they're out there. As a matter of fact, I tried to check on their website and I looked through all of it. It's all active. I went to chat GDP and I said, Everledger does not use the fabric framework and actually came back and said, no, you're wrong. Yes, it does. So this time it went back the other way. So if you go to their website, they track and trace luxury goods, whether it's cosmetics, some with lithium batteries, diamonds, they've been out there a while. So maybe somebody on the phone knows about them. Yeah. Actually, Everledger, I included them in a piece that I wrote back in 2017. I just looked at my LinkedIn to find it. I'll put the chat there. They've been doing, like you mentioned, diamonds, collectible wines. One of the first things they did was the Chai Wine Vault. Yeah, the Chai Wine Vault. And they worked with IoT devices locking the wine so people could tell if the collectible bottles had been tampered with. So they early on were doing really interesting impactful work. Yeah, I think we'd have to do some due diligence to figure out where they are right now because the good news is that they have same power. They're still here in 2023, right? Seven years later. Yeah, that's that slash dot one that's on there. It gives financial information on the company, how they're doing and all kinds of projections and so they're doing very well. So yeah, there's ways of digging into this. So something I have time to do that if you want to dig further to some of those. I can also, I think everybody in the phone knows about Kaleido and they offer, if you're going to get a Kaleido account, you can pick, I think, well, different black chains, but they offer Bezu and fabric. And so I found some, I found a couple of cosmetic companies that are hosted on Kaleido, but I don't know which one they're using. Yeah. And I don't think they would give that info out. I don't know. So I'll say about getting an account going out there as a posing as a business owner and asking a bunch of questions about what's the most happen when you use a hyperledger member, aren't they, Tomas? Yes. Okay. Do you think you can go to them, you or Daniela, go to Kaleido and say, hey, what, what, which of your solutions would you like to represent? So Kaleido actually has the, on their website, they are showing the use cases there. I can actually share it here if you'd like. Do you want to share? I can share. Just let me find the link. I have it here somewhere. And while you're doing that, Ling, if you, with your solution, you're using fabric and you have some, some customers that have gotten ROI with it, and, you know, you can show that, I mean, we potentially could include you in this. So I want to throw it out there. It's just the, the, the bar is that you have some success with it. Yeah. You're on, you're on mute, Ling. Yeah, thanks for the offer. We may not be able to make this time, but hopefully next time. There you go. Okay. Yeah, we have something going on right now, but I think, compared to what you have there, we need to move faster. Okay. We're like all of us startups, right? Someone mentioned that Kaleido might be using Beisu, and I think it would be really, really helpful if we included in the ebook examples that are using Beisu or other hyperledger renditions, not just fabric. Yeah. Yes, exactly. We, yeah, we'd like to broaden. I saw you just put it in the link there, Thomas. You want to do that or did you want to share? Oh, no, I just wanted to share the use cases they have on the website because there is a couple and it would take a lot of time to go through all of them, you know. Yeah, let's not do that then. Okay. So, so we got Kaleido, we got to maybe pick and choose one or, you know, which ones look most interesting and then get their take on it. I mean, not that they get final editorial decision, but at least, you know, they can provide some guidance here. Okay. I'm sorry. Can I jump in, Tom? I think a quick look at what Alicia said in the note. I think I would love, you know, if it works, I would love to be included because we are having traction right now. And Alicia would love to talk to you about food supply chain because some of the customers are in agriculture. Happy to. Yeah. Okay, that's great. Okay. So maybe there, maybe there is some success here with it. Yes. And Ling, if you want to go out there, I mean, it's public information, that e-book stuff there, if you want to just put your thing in there, that'd be great. How quick do you plan to publish the e-book? Our goal, so good question. Our goal that we established was to try to have this out the door by the end of June. So sometime the next couple of months here. We're not trying to boil the ocean or be intergalactic. Let's get something out there and we can have another version of it and we can do something fun off of that, riff off of it is our goal. Good. So thanks, Ling. Let's see here. Alicia, would you like to share a template that you... I would be happy to share a template in one moment. So here's the, here's the, here's the, while she's bringing that up here, here's the next stage. So we still have to kind of go through and formulate what our suspect list is here and Pernume, I don't know if you have anything else you want to share here that you've discovered or are looking at that you haven't put in there in the e-book or anybody who's listening out there. I think we let it go for another week or two, but the next step after that is to create, using one of the templates here that Alicia's going to show is to create for the ones that we select there. So this shouldn't involve, it doesn't involve writing 10 pages. It doesn't even involve writing two pages. It involves writing a paragraph or two and maybe getting a quote. So Alicia, I'll turn it over to you. Sure, thank you. So first of all, I want to share a template that I, for the two put together that Daniella and Tomas put together, which is very helpful. So thank you so much Tomas and please let Daniella know that we really appreciate the work the two of you have done. Looking out, having a template makes it a lot easier for us to understand what we're putting together and what Hyperledger thinks of as an e-book because we'd originally been thinking it would mean writing case studies from scratch for a bunch of companies, whereas the Hyperledger model is a lot less work. So cover, scroll down. So an introduction to Hyperledger foundation, descriptions of blockchain and supply chain, the supply chain SIG, very high level, not a lot of detail there. So to basically just introduce people to Hyperledger in supply chain, Hyperledger in general, and the work of the SIG, who's doing what? And then we get down to the use cases. So they put together this lovely little template, sample up here, and then a couple of sentences on the use case, some additional resources here. If we can get a quote there as well. And Tomas and Daniella put together a page on GSBN. See this is what it looks like with the sentences, a couple of resources here. One useful thing is, are they a member? What type of member are they? So GSBN is a general member. They're using Hyperledger fabric. And I put together a template as well. Let me pull this up. So this just kind of a plug and place slide as well for us. What's the project name, company or company names, what the URLs are, their membership level, three to five sentences. We want to know which Hyperledger project they're using. What's the focus? Who are the partners? Who are the different stakeholders? What region of the world? Because we want to make sure we're showing that it is in use all around the world, not just not just the United States, not just India, but really widely dispersed. And what's the business effect? What's been the return on investment for the companies that have been using it? So ideally a project website and then a few references. I drafted one for DLT Labs, since we've had them on a few times. See here, project name. The project they've spoken to us about was one they did with Walmart Canada with the URLs there, given a description including that the platform includes more than 200 data elements. It's useful for anyone learning to understand how much can be included in here. And carriers can access it easily through the web portal or an API. And they've streamlined their process from 11 to five steps. And dispute resolution has gone from more than 70% to less than 2%. That's showing this really is impactful. And Walmart Canada is seeing cost reduction close to 5% of annual freight expenses. That's about $30 million Canadian annually. I put the project website at the top and then a case study that Hyperledger has on the Hyperledger website. Again, the Harvard Business Review study. And then both the presentation that Pete Goanlock did here for our SIG in February. But Shannon Hamilton came in back before supply chain and trade finance SIGs combined. And she spoke to the supply chain SIG back in 2020. So that showed the project earlier and its development. So again, got a couple of two different templates that people can look at as you're put in together a profile. And this is a lot less work than writing a five or 10 page case study. It really just means looking for several different reputable resources. And writing a three to five, four to five sentence description that includes details that that help people understand how impactful the project is. Any questions? Did I lose anybody? Enough, you did not. Thank you, Alicia for putting this together. So is your vision here that the page that you're showing right now is once we've established or even, you know, here's ones that we know we're going to include here that you would fill out page two there in our page one, page one, they fill that out. And then that could be reformatted into the actual document. Is that kind of the thought? Exactly. Exactly. That way people just put it here. And once we have all of this information, the formatting is easy. Cool. Cool. Okay. Okay. I'll stop there. And I, I will add this file to today's meeting notes. Does that make sense? That makes sense. Yes, that does. Yes. Good. Good. So a tool you see that there's some success stories out there here. So that maybe so most people are suspects for you to go after your survey. And, and, and to be very honest, I was excited to see that because, you know, and just, just to keep you, you know, just to talk about it because whenever I was talking to you, right? And recently, I have the news of this IBM and Mox, their trade list platform, the discontinue started from XYZ time. So that actually made me feed a bit low. But then I know when I now see that at least, you know, there are a few success stories that we also makes me think of writing the next research paper, when we can at least say and talk and at least put some of the tangible, you know, company's names in it. Yes. And then, you know, stop up with the findings, which is definitely a construction tool. Cool. And I mean, you hit upon right there, your feeling and some of our motivation. And yes, there were some challenges last year where projects, project died. And now pay what there are some successes out there. And we want to highlight those successes and then build off those. So with that, I guess I'm thinking two, two thoughts here I'd like to propose. One is, I think further adding further or doing further study for additional suspects out there over the next two weeks. And then the other portion of it is, is maybe certain ones of them, we know we're going to include, we're going to include DLT labs. I mean, I think that's amazing story, right? And it's the one I always talk about when I talk about successes and blockchain out there. And there's some of these other ones that we might have to investigate a little bit further and try to figure out, like I'd love to know wherever no is with the XC project. I mean, we had had them on a couple of years ago, but I haven't heard much since then. So and clearly Renosa, it meets the global distribution as you were talking about Alicia, right? So it's not just the United States. And I know there's a lot of stuff going on in Europe. Hamash, you know, I don't know much of what's going on in China at all. So if we could represent a Chinese example, that would be, that might be good there. GSBN is Chinese. Okay. You know, is JD.com using Hyperledger? They're doing a lot of blockchain. I used to have a great contact internally there, but she's she's gone on. And the new people on the on the JD.com we chat conversation are not so active. The new the new staff members are not as responsive. Oh, oh, okay. I don't know, Alicia, but I can check it out. Okay. Because I'd love to include either JD or if Ali Baba is using Hyperledger. Those are two major e-commerce companies that I think showing either of them would be bringing up the big jobs. Yeah. Yeah, it would be. The only one I came across was China Cosmetic Blockchain Consortium uses fabric, the trackless supply chain of cosmetic products. I didn't do much. I didn't do much more detail. They have a website that's called the China Cosmetic Blockchain Consortium and they use fabric. I'm writing that one down right now. Thank you. The things were fine, man. This is good. They probably don't have an English language we chat though. And I am, I am unfortunately still subliterate and forgetting more every day. And you said one quick point and maybe I'm not sure who can implement that, but then there's a startup in India. I know who I'm mentoring on. So the startup in India, they are based out of Jaipur, Rajasthan. They are trying to build a platform wherein they can do the e-BloodBank supply. So the, the BloodBank supply and they're trying reaching out to me, you know, if we can use the blockchain based technology platforms since I had limited time, I was completely caught up in my, you know, thesis omission and all. So I didn't get much time to, you know, talk to them, but then, you know, maybe I can help some of you connect with the founder of that company. And then, you know, if we can think of exploring that opportunity of, you know, implementing it, you know, because, you know, and, you know, or maybe at least we can help them in terms of, you know, which are the readily available of the shell product, you know, which you can think of using it for. And the, you know, the person who founded of it, he absolutely have a great plan for making this across, you know, across a big, right. And with India now, trying to destize the medical, right, for putting the, putting more money. Okay. Good. If a tool, if you, if you sense that they have gotten all the way through, that they have some success where they can show some financial payback as well as qualitative payback, then it'd be great to talk with them for this project. Certainly happy to, we could talk with them about, you know, what they're trying to do, because we've had early stage people present on some of their stories. They just may not be appropriate for what we're trying to do with ebook. So things, but exactly that's ideas. That's what we're looking for is trying to figure out here. So look, I know we're at the top of the hour here. I'm going to, let's give some last thoughts here. So I'd encourage everyone who's either here or listens to the replay here to continue to try to add to the link that has possible suspects out there that I showed earlier on in this. And then if you feel like there's one, because well, we'll we'll start assigning or asking people, that's probably a better way to say it. We'll start asking people to grab one or two here and write them up in starting in the next, the next meeting we have, which I think is on the 6th of May. I have to go back and think about it. That sounds right. Alicia's wondering whether I got it right. Fourth of May. Fourth of May. Oh man. I clearly can't do the math across month boundaries. It's tricky one. It is a tricky one. It's okay. It's 30 this month. Okay. So anyways, yeah. So the fourth of May is our next time. And then we'll start asking folks to do one of these, one of these starting little documents. We'll start learning about it. And hopefully then we can, and our goal is to have somewhere around 10-ish, right? If we have eight good ones, that's okay. There's seven. Or if we have 12 good ones, that's cool. We don't want a hundred. We don't want 20. We want to have somewhere around that, that 10-ish kind of number there. So Tom, Tom, Alicia, how do we use that template that Alicia had, Alicia, that template you have? If we know somebody and we can actually get that info to show them as a candidate, where's that template? I'm going to put after the meeting. So today I'll be posting that template to the, shut it for the meeting page or to the e-book page. You know, I'll do it to both. I'll share it to both to make it really easy. And I guess if we can ask people to complete the template and then submit it to the e-book page, does that make the most sense? Add it to the e-book page? Add it to the e-book page, yeah. I think that makes sense. Okay, good. So with that, thanks for joining. Ling, thanks for joining here first time. Well, we'll see, we'll see you again. We'll look more to hearing about a ledger funding there and what you're up to. And for those of you listening on the recording, thanks for joining also. And we'll look forward to seeing you live and next time if your schedule permits. So with that, I'm going to close it out here and enjoy the rest of your day. And Atul, thanks again for sharing your thoughts. Okay. Bye. Thank you. Bye. Thank you. Bye.