 So I would like to call the February 16th, 2022 parks and recreation advisory board meeting to order. Can we please start with a roll call. Aaron Angel said that she would be absent this evening if she couldn't connect. She's out of town. So we have Scott Conlon. Jeff Ellen Bowen. I know it's getting wild. Yeah. Hey to Lewis. Nicholas novello. Here. Dan Olson. And Tim waters. Here. Thank you. Thanks very much. Great to see everyone. Our next item of business is approval of the agenda. Did everyone get a chance to look at the agenda. Yeah, I have a. Change and then a request. So I'd like to postpone the. New business be. Board candidate interview process. The council gave staff direction last night and we are waiting for the city clerk to give us some more direction. And anything I would say this evening would probably be incorrect. So I think it's best that we wait on that. And then I would like to request that we move. New business a. Up under public invited to be heard so that Bryce can do his presentation and, and head out after that. Thank you. Okay. So you're proposing really just to move to switch new business and old business. Yes, that's correct. Okay. Any other. Proposed. Changes to the agenda. If not, then I need a motion to approve the agenda as amended. I'm motion to approve. I'm motion to approve the agenda as amended. Second. Second. Okay, great. All those in favor. I. Any opposed. Great. The agenda is approved. Okay, next we need to approve the previous month's minutes. Did anyone have any changes to the minutes? I had a couple of small just. But it's that we're not substantive so I can just send those along via email. Okay. Not seeing any changes. I need a motion to approve the minute. We should do the minute. Great. Thanks. Second. Anyone. I second that. Great. All in favor. I. Any post. Yeah, you're good. You didn't vote. I wasn't at the last meeting, so I didn't feel like I should do. Okay. All right. Okay. The minutes are approved. Great. Thank you. So we don't have any public. Okay. I'm invited to be heard. So I would suggest we just move to new business per gesture class. So Jeff. I'll introduce this. Yeah, I can real quick, Jeff, I just jumped in. I do surprises. That's where we're going next page. Is that where you were? So. For this group, I think, you know, that since I think most have been working with some new staff. I think we're going to be working with some new staff. I think we're going to be working with some new staff. I'm sure Tim Brita was taking over that responsibility helping out for a while. Bryce has come on and really started to help us make some changes in that direction. Please some new staffing would be coming on and just wanted to give an overview of what we're doing from basically now with our open space properties all the way out at, you know, basically I 25 up the button rock and everything happening between and Bryce is going to go ahead and kind of give us a presentation of what they're doing. Thanks. My name is Bryce over in a park ranger for about 10 years now with Utah State Parks, City of Aurora and then I just started this position about seven months ago. We've got a little presentation for you guys just to kind of give you an update on what the ranger program looks like today and then kind of what our outlook is for 2020. And Bryce, I don't want to start to erupt. You can ever hear Bryce okay or is he need to just get a little closer to his microphone. Yeah, everyone's good. Okay, thank you. Great. Thank you, Bryce. He's a little quiet. I thought he's a little quiet too. Let's get up. Everyone see that. Okay. So right now we have five full-time rangers. Three are based out of Union Reservoir. And then there's two more full-time rangers up that button rock preserve. And right now we're interviewing for two more for two more full-time rangers that will be mostly responsible for the greenways, urban parks, Lake Macintosh, basically all the areas that are not Union. We also typically hire three to six seasonal or temporary rangers. They usually go from March to October to kind of help us with the busy season. The purpose of this division, park rangers provide resource protection, community outreach and education, public safety in the City of Longmont Parks, open space, greenways and public lands. So that's kind of our daily mission and our focus. Some of our central duties, like I said, public safety. So we're working towards getting all full-time rangers, emergency medical responders certified. So that's a little bit of a bump up from basic first aid and CPR, but it's not quite an EMP. We feel like that's a good baseline for us to have, just to be able to respond to certain emergencies that we might encounter. We're also working on getting our full-time rangers, wild and fire certified or red-carded. That way we could help out with any sort of wildfires that may be up around Button Rock, or if you wanted to do some controlled burns in town, that's something that we could assist with as well. We do some law enforcement. So that includes verbal warnings, educational contacts, friendly reminders, but that can go all the way up to mandatory court appearance summons, tickets, and all of that. So that's one of the key assessments. It just depends on the situation and what the violation calls for. We also do resource protection. So we're responsible for any aquatic nuisance species inspections for incoming watercraft at Union. We also do forestry work at Button Rock. So the guys up there are pretty much in charge of keeping the area safe, keeping the trails clear, doing any chainsaw work. There's plenty of answering questions, directing people how to best use the parks and open space areas, and just providing that level of customer service. So some of our accomplishments from last year, we drafted a new comprehensive ranger manual that basically is a guideline for how we operate. That includes standard operating procedures and a field training academy. So we all have a basic level of training. And if we run into any situations, there's going to be an SOV that we can follow exactly what to do. We have a new record revenue at Union Reservoir over $700,000. I know the rangers that have been here for about 20 years have had typical revenue when they started with about $50,000. So come a long way since they've been here. We've set new uniform standards. So I've ordered body armor for all of the full-time rangers. So we'll be wearing external ballistic vests. Just as that extra layer of protection for some of the things that we do. Occasionally we'll contact homeless camps. So it's not a bad idea to have that level of protection. The guys at the Button Rock will contact hunters, landowners, people with rifles in their hands. So it never hurts just to have that extra level of protection. Also getting us badges. Currently we don't have actual metal badges. That'll be in addition to our uniform as well. So we have a lot of training. The other senior ranger attended the Coastal Meeting, Colorado Open Space Alliance. So a lot of really good talks, trainings, conversations, and networking there. So it was good for us to have a presence at that meeting. And then the Button Rock rangers, they support forestry and water resource operations up at Button Rock. That includes red car training and clearing vegetation and debris. So they did a lot of work up there to kind of get that out of the way. One of the big things that's going to be new for this year is at Union Reservoir, we're going to have gate operation hours. So in the past, once rangers left Union Reservoir, whether it be eight, nine o'clock at night, there was no one here. So what happened happened. We dealt with the mess in the morning and we just did it all over again. But starting March 1st, we're going to have gate closing and opening hours. So we'll open the gates at 6 a.m. We'll close them at 8 p.m. And then we're going to get into our summer hours, which is 6-9 fall hours, which is 7-7 and then during the winter. 7 to 6 a.m. which is when we're also close to trailer loading. We think having this like level of protection will help the area a little more clean, a little more safe. It's just helping us control access for the things that are happening at night are happening. We also have patrol boat for Lake Mackintosh. So we'll be able to actually go out on the water, contact people, address some of the issues out there. It's a kind of an inflatable boat, something like a zodiac that has a solar gas motor on it. So we'll be able to zip around up there, contact people and just be able to have that extra layer of safety and be rescued on that, whatever we need to do. We do have a new Ranger dock at Union, so we'll be able to dock our boat there and not take up the public dock, not getting people's way and people won't be in our way. So if we need to get on the boat quickly, we have our own dock, easily access it and take off from there. Our plan for this year is to have more cross training with the parts and open-stage rangers like myself and then the watershed rangers up at Button Rock. So if they ran into an issue and needed an extra hand, I would be fully trained on how to operate up there. I can help out. Also, if we ran into trouble here in town, the watershed rangers would have an understanding on how to operate in town as well. So a little more cross training and as David likes to say, plug and play. But if I need someone here, I can grab a Button Rock Ranger and then know exactly what to do. We're also using Survey123 for data for contacts and patrols. David or someone asked me, so how many contacts have we had at Dickens Natural Area? In the past, I wouldn't have a really good answer for him. But using this new system that you can see below here, like all these pinpoints are some variety of contact that he's made. I'll be able to pull that up and be like, okay, so he's made contacts here, here, here and starts to create a trend of hotspots and know where we're at and maybe where we need to be more often. I think that's going to be useful for us this year. That's kind of all the updates I have for you today and I'm more than happy to answer any questions or clarifying things that maybe you didn't have. If I can answer the chair, if I can have just a moment to maybe pull a couple more things out from Bryce, I think before you answer some questions, I think if I could just follow up. One of the things that you talked about, Bryce, where it was the boat for rescues and stuff out there. Can you talk a little bit more or share with the board on kind of how rescues played? I think you guys take for granted what you do out there as far as rescues and stuff. Do you have any idea how many rescues you typically do and what those look like? I think our number from last year was close to 120. That can be as simple as a pad of water that got knocked off the board and the wind took it away and we had to go and plug them out of water. Occasionally it's something a little more serious like a turtle sailboat where the mast is pointing down in the water and that's, it can be tricky, but it's doable. It can range from something pretty simple to a little more hectic, especially if it's a large wind event where we have 100 battle boards out there, then it's going to be a yard sail and it could take a while to get everyone either to shore or back on their boards. But yes, it's pretty common for us to do that on the weekend in the summer. It's pretty windy in the spring as well. As soon as we open the boating once the ice clears, we'll be ready for rescues. I've been out there actually having parents come into the ranger office just thanking the rangers because they've had kids out in the water blown off and had no idea where they're at. So I think you know that our community doesn't really recognize really what you guys do out on a daily basis. So that's why I'm sure that. And then the other piece I just hope you can touch on a little bit too with our kind of change. You mentioned that increase in revenue and one of the things that we really have done and I think you brought a great piece to is that work with recreation. And that's just some of the responsibilities and your background is a similar situation where your work is recreation. Can you talk a little bit about how your work is recreation how that's working for you. Yep. So, we're trying to kind of create a joint effort here where recreation handling a lot of the revenue driven items like interstation, anything that's going to make money. We're also going to be able to assist them on some of the public safety resource protection and work together, even though we might have different goals and motivations, we still want the best for the city. So joint effort with maybe different backgrounds and different work groups. We're all working for the same thing. Great. I'm sorry, I'll thank you very much for that time. And I'll turn over to the chair to ask questions then. Thanks to both of you. Really great to get that overview and to understand how those resources have been bolstered recently. Any questions from the board. Nicholas. Next page. First off Bryce thank you for the update really helpful. My question is related to the 2022 patrol boat that's going out for like Macintosh. My question on that is, is that part of the mission they're going to be keeping an eye out for the max boat limit that we have for like Macintosh, or is it purely rescue. I'm just going to be part of it. I've honestly I've never rescued someone out of the zodiacs I don't know how easy or hard it is we're going to find that out but um, as it was last year, we were mostly patrolling by shore. So if I didn't catch the person before they launched and they were, you know, 100 yards on the water. yelling at them is not particularly effective. I mean they might come back, but for the most part they're going to wave at me and just keep doing whatever they were doing. There's zero chance that I'll ever be able to go out there and actually do anything. So being able to contact people on the water. It's going to be a big difference. I can actually address some of the issues out there. It's going to make it a lot easier than just, I don't like to yell at people. That's never really a good way to go about it. But if I can gently bruise up to you be super friendly and address an issue. I think it's going to go a lot better. The capacity issue that's something that we definitely be able to address easier. David, did you have a follow up and then we'll go to Dan. It may be one of the things that we need to talk about as a group or two because the capacity issue within the Macintosh master plan was one of the staff recommendations. But if prices go all the way right now there is nothing in our ordinances or on our signs and say that's an enforceable piece. And I think that's the foundation I think is that body was talking about ways to help better manage that property. It was one of the pieces that I know for neighbors was frustrating because they read measure plan and see that recommended number. But at this point we don't have a capacity number on that body water. And back then as Dan Wilford is on time would talk about, you know pad boards weren't even a thing back then so to think about, you know, people bringing out boats launching or sail boats it wasn't sort of that idea would ever get that sort of capacity out there. And the other piece I just kind of go back to as we looked at why we're trying to keep those numbers down a lot of that really was for the management of that critical wildlife area the western end of that. Bryce and range has been doing a great job again those buoys out sooner trying to make sure we're keeping people out of that area so the capacity issue I think it's something as we look at how we try to manage that it's going to be really challenging because as I've walked that for the last couple of years to code even for Bryce was here. I mean if you've been kicking people off on one side, they'd be putting it on the other side so I think unless you had really strong controlled access points. It'd be hard to manage a specific number I think what our goal really is is to make sure that people are respecting the wildlife, they're respectful neighbors, and as Bryce talked about that will make sure they're safe so the pfts are a big piece we had a lot of people that followed their first paddle board Santa paddle board, they didn't have personal floatation devices, and definitely concerned for us that they're on the water without having some other to either make sure they got that piece of equipment or left the water so that that's where we're at in that and Nicholas will talk a little bit more on what this group things about we should be looking at. But for right now I think the way we're kind of looking at is that was a great recommendation of time. I think practically it makes it really hard for rangers to enforce that, and therefore looking at the underlying objectives of that if we can achieve those I think that's we're really shooting for. David. Yeah, to follow up on the lake Macintosh my experience I mean I'm over there every other day walking the dog and on a beautiful summer day. Well, I've counted upwards of 75 votes before. And I think you're right David there's just no way to stop that it's too nice it's too easy. What we should be worried about is that folks are treating it like the Union reservoir beach. There are plenty of folks swimming, and there's no rope it goes you know people go as far as they want to go I mean that's an accident waiting to happen. And so I wondered, Bryce, what's the plan. How many days of the week or how many hours of a day is controlling really going to happen. My recommendation would be any nice day would be the day to be there, because the numbers go up dramatically if it's a beautiful day. I mean, no surprise. So I'm just curious if there's a plan or we'll work it out as we go or what your thought is. Part of it's going to be working out as we go until we're completely fully staffed with the two new Rangers that we're in for now and then a full jump in seasonal Ranger staff. Once we're at full strength, I don't see why we can't be out there every day that it's going to be nice necessary. Will we be there all day everything that might be a little unreasonable right now but frequent check in with the boat I don't see why we can't make that happen. Great. I had just didn't know what the feel was if this is a part time thing or a full time thing. Great. Okay. We had the two full timers they were at Union so if it's nice over in Macintosh it's going to be nice at Union to do. They just didn't have the opportunity to even go over there really. Or they did would be a drive by. Yep, there's a lot of words out there and then come back to Union. But with the additional staff, I think we'll be able to address these issues a lot more frequently. We have ordinance against the swimming in that body of water to so that that is enforceable it's not like that number we do we do have ordinance and it is signed out there to so definitely. Bryce is great at you know trying to gain voluntary compliance and if people do that I'm sure that's will be fine but if not they have the ability enforce that. Well the ramp on the north side. That's the name of the park and then the beach ish kind of area by the volleyball court on the south side or the flow into statue. That's the one that. Well you all know what I mean if you go by there, but that beach is a popular place to swim and folks set up tents. It looks just like Union it's a great spot, but a lot of folks swim. Right so I'm just gonna share the group because you guys are this board is I think I appreciate this board if it's biking or other reservoirs you're out there a lot and helping to share some of these messages. One of the reasons that we're so concerned about as we don't with Union we have a swim beach requires us to test the water. So Bryson his crew are testing that water. We have a body of water out there that we don't know the water quality we have agriculture and livestock upstream from that. And people are in that water with us and them knowing the quality of that water so if you're out there I mean we don't want to put you in that forces thing but anytime you help people have better understanding what's happening out there. I think it's beneficial so. It's a lot easier if I have a person like you know we have a really great 20s over here in the water quality is known can be safe you have a lifeguard. If you just don't people know that doesn't work so great if I say no but you have this great option here. Is there signage about the lack of testing sort of unknown water quality. That would discourage me from swimming. I mean, I don't know if it posted out there. I don't think it is but something to be a great idea it's like I said people giving people a know and giving people a reason for not doing something as they help make their own decision always is a great piece that we can use to our advantage and their advantage. I guess I was just going to ask I'm sure it does cost money but I guess I wondered how complicated would it be to do water testing not to necessarily open up the swimming more but just to know. I guess my attached question to that is, if people are paddleboarding they have to be falling in the water, how is that any safer than swimming, and I don't think there's a real answer that question but if it's okay to paddleboard and fall in. It's probably okay to swim unless you're drinking the water on purpose. I don't know where I'm going with that but I guess why don't we water test there. I think a couple I've actually asked those same questions to I think you know again I think as we go back look at master plan it really was written before we had, you know people on boats isn't fall on boats, as much as you know you look at it really is a piece that if we're having people are going to be paddleboarding is something that you may want to consider. But one of the real reasons for testing is when you have a swim beach and maybe Jeff could jump in there to if he has anything on that but I think that really becomes the trigger point is when you have a swim beach so people are pulling off their paddleboards is that incidental contact. I think the state looks at it differently than if you're inviting people into the water to swim so that's my wildlife biologist take that answer. So something is a swim beaches that then require a life card is I mean I guess I'm wondering like, why not make that little beach by the statue of swim beach I imagine it's because you have to have a life card. The city, the city requires that any bodies of water that people swim in that we do have to have lifeguards with master plan that David's referring to it was always outlined that there would not be public swimming at Mackintosh so there wouldn't have been ever a plan to do the testing, or to have lifeguards there. Thank you, Jeff. And Jeff. Keith, did you have a comment. Yeah, I just add that one of our goals when we do, we update our master plan, our parks trails recreation master plan is we really need to relook at all of our aquatic bodies and what's great break the desired recreational uses are each one of them. We're buying land on the west side of McCall Lake, you know do we want to increase the fishing there do we want to do something different Mackintosh. I think that the technology has changed a lot, since we last would have thought about how we want to treat each of these water bodies and so. Great technology I mean boating and inflatables and paddleboards and things like that so that will be one long term long term goal is where we look at all of our water bodies that we have recreational rights to, and see what we can do to make things safe and what's logical for the balance between recreation and habitat. I noticed that you have something. Yeah was in 2021 was there any life threatening incident was there. Right. Did you have any any anecdotal stuff because I had a couple so. I was the question. Yeah, I was looking. Was there any life threatening incident last year. Was there any life threatening incidents going one that I'm very aware of is we had a kid fall into the oligarchy when the parents weren't watching I think it was like a two or four year old kid. Luckily one of our seasonal Rangers was pretty aware of the kids playing by the oligarchy. He was able to run down there and pull the kid out of water. So yeah, we gave him an award for that for being hyper vigilant and taking action for that rescue. If you want to call some of our boat rescue is like threatening that might be appropriate for some of them probably not for all of them. And I don't have a big count on all of those. Using that survey 123 program that I spoke about earlier way able to log boat rescue and all of that as well. If you're familiar if you're asking so many boat rescues to do union should be able to be a very accurate number. All right. Thank you. Okay. Any other final questions. Great. Thanks so much for joining us Bryce. We really appreciate it. Thank you. Appreciate the opportunity. Okay, our next agenda items is going back to old business. And we have revisiting and finalizing our 2022 agenda calendar and then sort of follow up discussion on recreation facilities. So I should I kick this off, Jeff and David based on our, is it okay for me to share my screen and just share what's in the packet for the discussion. Yeah, or Nikki, can you help us with that. I can do it. I have it pulled up. No, I meant they, I think they have to give you permissions to do that. Okay. Yeah. All right. You can now share your screen. If I can find it. As you hopefully recall at the last meeting we did some initial brainstorming about agenda topics for our calendar for the year. And Jeff and David and I followed up on that and tried to put as many of those topics in a meaningful way throughout the calendar over the year and Jeff and David also brought some additional topics that they proposed and we talked through. So I think probably we just if we just kind of go through this and have some discussion about whether this makes sense. And if there's any additions or changes that we want to make before finalizing it. And I will a couple of things I wanted to note. I put on here you'll see future recreation facilities as an event ongoing topic for this board because I feel like it's been something that we have all had a lot of interest in and have prioritized and wanted to engage in so to see that there I'm proposing that that be a priority item of this board to address in an ongoing way at meetings throughout the year. I would love to hear your thoughts and feedback on that. And then I think we might want to do something similar with master planning but depending on what schedule that actually follows because I think when we talked about last time. We were thinking or the staff were thinking that that was going to be moving on a faster or different timeframe than perhaps it is. So and we did make some changes already because button rock has to be moved. I think to March and the new board candidate process is being postponed. Obviously, this is not absolutely fixed we can update it as we need to but it will be good for planning purposes to have this. Get stopped. And I will also note I would love for us as board to have some kind of board retreat. You'll see I plugged that in just as kind of a note in March. I think that's something that used to happen more regularly pre COVID and maybe by late March or early April we could actually do something in person and I think the idea would be just to pick some topics that we really want to learn about together so it wouldn't be a formal like voting business meeting but more of a learning opportunity for us as a board. With that, I would love to open it to well first Jeff and David, if you have anything you want to say and then we can just open it for discussion. No. Sorry, David. No, I was gonna say I just apologize for not getting button rock on this time we had a scheduling snap food for another meeting, which caused a domino effect so we definitely squeeze that in there get that that caught up but that's the only thing I would say is just thank you for being flexible with Jeff anything. No, and I guess the only thing I'd say is the new board candidate will interview process will try to try to talk about that in March or April. Since we really aren't involved with that process until the end of the year we do have some time with that. Great. Okay. Yeah, Dan, when I kick up David I'm curious about the button rock I filled out the questionnaire you know the talk to Longmont, whatever it's called, and I got the impression things were happening soon, like city council is approving it. I think before we meet in March with the impression I got, we had to move everything out so others be honest, this group you know we really try to get through. They'll rather make that leadership team to kind of see those presentations of this questions internally, then take it to the boards, and then take it to council. We were not able to get to Dale's leadership team. So that really bumps everything out so there really is. There's honestly no sense of urgency in the fact that we have grants pending on this we have to get staffing for this. We all just would like it down we realized with COVID. It took longer than anyone expected so our real sense of urgency is just getting it done but making sure we follow our sequence of getting all the all the right boards and stuff done just causes to push it out a little bit. Like, like I say if you nice to have it done but we're just going to end up having to bump everything a little bit. Okay, great. So we get to take a look before it goes to city council is exactly that's what. Okay, so that's we're not only were you being bumped but all the other boards are being bumped and counts is being bumped as well. Got it. Thank you. Thank you. And thanks for doing the survey. So any other and hopefully you guys saw this and I can go off of share but we have in recreation facilities ongoing master planning. We've got capital improvement project of current and future. Open space and Greenway considerations potentially in pending development. They've reinforced health partnership comprehensive trail systems and building trail connectivity. Several different aspects of recreation programming based throughout parks maintenance and open space stewardship. So, hopefully an interesting year. Thanks page. I'm going to go back to button rock just for whatever it's worth. You know, in our in our queue, David and Jeff. It looks to me not looks to me it's it's the queue of a council discussion in a study session on March 1 of the button rock management plan and, and it's a relationship to code updates. So, I assume you're aware that. And I will. We were but I'm not sure we will get with dawn and make sure that everything kind of sequences out I just, I just got Danielle just gave me the new sequencing of all the different dates it took a little bit of work to do that. And I think the ultimate goal is to make sure we end up it, you know, council, when we show up at council will come with you know this has been looked at by staff by leadership by these boards and you'll get that with that that context around it. So those things that what's in the queue. I always think of as tentative until we get a formal agenda just just so you know, it shows on a study session on March 1. So, I believe that's being pushed out and I will double check I think for for the reminder that still there. Um, so I just wanted to know. One of the ideas that there's master planning updates and master plan discussions. Almost monthly. I wonder if you and the board can provide staff a little bit more detail about what it is you're looking for there because that's a very broad topic. The update to the parks and trails. And I'm not sure that's clear to us, but you're looking to us to prepare Steve, I can see Jeff, do you want it says you probably had the most recent conversation of this would you mind starting and I can share what I know then to. Yeah. So, a couple of weeks ago I met with the city manager about a number of different topics. And one of the things that he was recommending is that a number of the master plan processes that were being planned for this year. And he put on hold, including the parks rec and trail master plan, and his concern is, you know, staff is in some cases already overburdened with the amount of things that they're working on. And especially with what I'll say Steven Kathy, and his preference would be that instead of doing additional planning for more parks or facilities that they'd actually be able to do some of the work of getting more parks actually worked on and completed. That is that is different from his direction on the recreation master plan, which is about the programming side of recreation, and he really wants us to move forward with our process. Because he wants to really have us check in with the public to see what their views are post or towards the end of coven and to see if their interests and their desires have changed at all through the last two and a half years of experience that we've had with coven. So Jeff, I appreciate you doing that because you know, Jeff, I have these conversations as we're working on, you know, that parks and recreation piece of this. So as he shared that information me I went back and checked with Dale and Dale confirmed today that that's the direction he's been hearing to so I think Steve for staff and for this group is we get kind of more direction on how things are going to be changed or how that time there was going to be changes being looked at to try to get more work done which I think ever agrees is you know something we all could be doing. We'll be happy to share that with this group and staff as we get a bit more clarity on that. Yeah. And the one thing I'd like to do also Ben if you could turn your camera on. There is a area supervisor in recreation. Ben and Jason Stoles will be leading the master plan process for recreation. And so Ben will be attending our meetings, probably throughout this year and maybe longer, but as we have updates we're going to have it as a placeholder on the agenda and there is where we really don't have anything to report, but we want to have it in there just in case so that we can keep the board informed and getting feedback from them also so thank you to Ben and and again you'll be seeing him quite a bit in the coming months. Great. Thanks to both of you. Yeah, the intention is just said was really to make sure that if one or both of those master planning processes was was going to go forward that this board would have, you know, all appropriate opportunities to be engaged and and up to speed and in that so that's why we put it on there is an ongoing item sort of pending more understanding of what happened, the timing of the process. And there might be months where we don't have anything to report on the recreation facility, but again want to have that as a placeholder so that it's always reminding us that we're working on that. I'll give a very quick update to it Jason I are gathering up our ducks and just trying to figure out what we don't know about the whole thing right now. We're getting to an RFP for a consultant at some point, and purchasing is very busy so getting through to them in the next, hopefully, six to eight weeks. That's about it right now. Are you working on a consultant for the master planning process to help with that. Is that what you mean. So the public input part, and to help gather just as we did for the last one will do the same for this one, it'll be updating the last one so hopefully not quite as involved. It was a good document then, but certainly time for an update with everything that's happened in the last seven years. Yeah I just wanted to add that, while we kind of wait for that direction on where to go with some of the master plans including the parks, recreation open space and trails master plan. We are talking about, you know what we might need in the interim so even if we don't proceed with the full process the full public process. We talked about and we'll probably want to check in with you all of needs that we might have in the interim, you know, and one idea we've talked about is maybe just a report card of what was planned in our current master plan. What have we gotten done, where are we at, what do we still need to do, even based on the priorities that we have in the current plan. So that might be informative to this group and the staff, at least to have a check in, you know, and kind of a report on where we're at so even if we don't move forward with the full on process. We'll still probably want to chat with you about maybe what to do in the meantime, so I think it'd be good to have some time on the agenda for discussions like that. Great. Thanks. Board member, Dan, did you have. No, thanks. Nope, thanks. Tackle it later. But Yes, I think just on the calendar, looking at the CIP process, I think last year we discussed who wanted to kind of have an idea of the candidates for CIP before we just voted on a CIP. I think it was in the challenging things for me as I've come in here and we, we, I've learned our CIP process and how those projects are laid out. We really have a one year CIP, but it's a five year plan. So as we're going through and looking at like Kathy and Harold recognized to we have projects that are 17, 18, 19, 20 projects that we're still trying to finish up. And as we get to this board and you know that 25, 27, it gets hard to really make any really firm decisions that far out. So I think you know a lot of times we get as we bring stuff to this board and like to get input and feedback. A lot of things are really locked into that plan that's been laid out there five years ago and we're really still at so we can definitely try to get that to you and I think having a better understanding of how we can utilize this group to figure out our priorities as Kathy said, especially we get some direction to try to get more done. We'll be talking about what we need through the CIP process and the budgeting process to drag the resources we need to try to get more of that backlog of work done and then take more forward look as well. And I kind of sharing a little bit here so I have had, you know, board members asking about, you know, that backlog and what we need to get that done so as we go through CIP and budget process I'll be definitely bring that forward to this group. Steve Kathy, but I'm going to kick this back over there because you know they had a trade me in this whole process coming forward to a little bit. So anything if you'd like to add to that please do. So part of the challenge is that we as the project managers have to have our projects cost estimate proposed years proposed operational dollars proposed design and construction dollars to David. I'll make up a date by by March 18. And then David has to talk about it with Dale and his, his leadership team. They get need a week or so. And then there's like a three week period where leadership moles all the different projects back and forth, and then staff has to go back and make changes based on what leadership is saying that we should make trying to find the sweet spot for Prab to provide input is hard because we're not ready to give it to you yet because we're still working on it. David gets it. He's already taking up the management. And we can ask, we can ask leadership, if we can bring it to the board but how well the board will be heard I really don't know because it is a complete juggling act looking at, you know, funding something in the library something in the police department versus something in natural resources like it's not just natural resources stuff so it's outside the purview of the this board so believe me we've been talking about this for 20 plus years I've been here, haven't found the best way open for suggestions. We're open to provide interim documents that you know where we're moving toward, but to it's it's because you guys only meet once a month. It's hard with the whole calendar doesn't stop for the whole city everything is keeps moving on a week to week basis and so finding that sweet spot in order to get the input that I believe that the board would desire to provide is just a challenge. I'll just add, I do like what I see on the calendar right now is one month we're talking about 2022 projects. And then the next month we're talking about 2023 and maybe beyond but what I recall last year is I, I think it worked pretty well. So we were able to talk to you all about kind of our work plan and what fits in our work plan as well as that forward thinking with the with the CIP. So what I think worked well is that we were able to check in with you all about what is in the queue and just be honest with you about this is what's in the queue. So what we're working on this is what we've been directed that our priorities are right now. And then, you know, this is what we can fit next year, and maybe look at 2024 or a couple years and then really just make sure that we're not missing something like there's not an elephant in the room that we're just, you know, we're just missing or our priorities are are kind of things like that. I feel like that's what we did last year, and I thought it worked well. But until we kind of get more aligned staffing wise, looking at those adding more and the new stuff. It's just really we're looking way out in 26 and 27 before we can start adding real new ideas and new projects but it's still good to check in and hear from you all. I'm not I don't know how the how whether we'll be asked the question in this budgeting cycle into Spain 2023 that we were asked last year. And it's the only time we've been asked as a council. If what are what are our recommendations for framed as one time expenditures. And for me, just so happened I had some back pocket proposals to make and made them to Harold. And I'm not certain what other council members do with respect to the budget and what they might or might not submit to the city manager. But I will say to David and into Steve and to Jeff into the board. It would be a missed opportunity to for me to not have a short list, kind of a back pocket list of potential priorities for the 2023 budget. If we get that question again this year. We'll definitely make sure we try to take care of that opportunity. Other questions comments about the calendar means does the idea of having the recreation facilities, new recreation facilities as an ongoing item makes sense to all of you based on our previous conversations. Is there anything that you see missing. I may be speaking out of turn, but I do that a lot. I guess my question for the councilman would be is that even something that he thinks is worth spending our time on right now like Aaron gave us some of his opinions in the past but maybe that would be worth talking about but I guess I'm curious how much legs does a new, a new recreation facility even have in the next year, just as a concept because I know it's years before it even be built. If you don't advance the conversation, it will have no legs. So page and I've talked about this. I would encourage you to be to become as it is clear as you can possibly be about what your priorities are what you think the city's priorities out to be and I've encouraged page to lean in and I would encourage all of you to lean in on on the council and with the council to get an answer to the question what where do we what does that fall as a priority for this city council. And, and, you know, we've got a couple of other big things in the queue like a follow on to a feasibility study for performing arts and conference center. We're anticipating a library feasibility study that is now months overdue. I think it would be a mistake for us to get far into those discussions without recreation facilities in the in the mix. So, I will promise you, I'll make that a priority for me that will be in the conversation if you guys are ready to have it. And, well, then I think we should talk about it a lot on this committee because it has been something that I feel like for years, this is my third year on this committee. We've all wanted to move in that direction. I feel like we all have I should for everyone. That was my question earlier and thank you for restating what you said last meeting Councilman waters. You brought up this good point that we need to be ready and be clear and be prepared to voice our opinion or, you know, the city's opinion if we can gather some of that info that that's an important thing and not miss the chance to we discussed it last time, you know, if there's a big bond issue, then we should be part of that like it. That's how we got the rec center bill 20 odd years ago was being part of a big plan, you know, instead of one thing that anybody could vote against. And maybe let's do this let's make the city better by doing XY and Z or whatever it is. So I am totally in your camp on this one. Last night during the council meeting, if anybody watched. And if you did, you want to go get a real life. So we have something to do on Tuesday nights other than what's counseling is but a topic of conversation. One of the topics was what kind of ballot questions we were talking about potential changes in the in the charter, specifically as as those changes would relate to the election process and in what we've learned through this last election cycle and some tweaks that we'd done but the but there was a corresponding or a parallel question about what other potential ballot questions might the staff bring to council to put on the ballot in November. And I just, as we get into those discussions there ought to be some sharp thinking about whether there's a ballot question in 2022 or not. And we're talking about what ballot questions generally to remind the council and the public that this is a real conversation. We, we, we haven't come back to it since 2018 and and the pool and ice proposal. But we need to reinvigorate that conversation and be clear on where it falls with the other questions that will consider whether it's 2022 or 2023. And if that conversation if I rotate off council, and I don't get it, I don't have a chance to be in that conversation I'm going to be disappointed. So I think we can continue some of this under the recreation facilities item. So let's, I don't want to stop the conversation but I do want to, if there's anything else we need to add or amend on the calendar before we approve that and move on. I'd love to hear that. Yeah, Paige, just as you know, setting up a tour is always quite the endeavor so the earlier the board can try to look at that and suggest some dates for counseling things get that dialed in. The more successful I think you'll, you'll be in trying to get something set up. Great. Appreciate that. Any other questions or proposed changes to the calendar. I think we should probably officially approve it. I'm looking at Jeff. Yes. Yes. Okay. If I could get a motion to approve the calendar is included in the packet. Jeff, are you moving. I'd be happy to make a motion to approve the calendar from the packet. And I need a second. And thank you. All those in favor. You pose. Great. We have a calendar. Thanks everyone. So our next item of business, we've already been kind of making our way into was just to. Again, revisit this idea of. New recreation facilities, what the status of that is in terms of conversations with the council conversations with staff. You know, what is the best next step that we as a board could take, I think in order to. Encourage the city to be moving on at least gathering information that could form the basis for a future. Solid initiative. And I don't know. I noted that. I think, or maybe you just said that there was going to be information gathering in conjunction with the master planning, but would we. Would we need to do something different in order to revisit public opinion in a robust way around recreation facilities. So, I think there's two parts to that question. I think there's a lot of feedback on the master plan. Again, as it relates to the impact COVID has had on recreation, or if there even is an impact. So I think we'd start that first. And have some of that information help us with the, the, the new rec facility. My belief is that when we did our last contact with the public, which was in January of 2020, which would have been right after the bond election that we did for pool and ice. The public was very supportive and I still believe, and I don't. This is just me talking I don't have anything that says, this is why I think it, but my belief is that for 10 years prior to COVID. People were, were routinely saying that we needed a new rec center, because the current rec center is too busy. I think as mass come off on Friday at five. I hope our world changes and that people continue to come come back. I think we're averaging surround 580 people a week right now, prior to COVID that number was 1200 a day. So that the impact of masking and social distancing has been very large. And, and so I continue to meet with the city manager with Karen Roney, the director of the community services department. I have given them a proposal to consider also hiring a consultant to help us with a design to review the financial side of that, as well as to help us evaluate the location. In an effort to be prepared to present that to council. And, and I think along the way we'll have some initial check ins with council to verify that, you know, at least a majority of them want us to move forward with that and, you know, any support that Tim can provide to us will be excellent. So I'm, and then the other thing is, I think it would be important for the board if that's what you choose to do is to make some type of motion that you feel that a new rec facility is is a priority and we would encourage the city to try to move forward with that. I don't remember when we discussed this last but I feel like in one of the most last few meetings that I attended at least there was a conversation about doing another survey of the public to find out more and about what they would want in the rec center like getting away from competitive pool and ice to like what do we actually want and I guess I'm wondering, I felt like we never even got to the point where we fully understood how that process would even happen I know that it costs money to do a survey. But it wasn't clear to me, if we needed to do it and be if we wanted to do it, was that the correct next step and then see, how would we get the money to have a survey process happen so I mean I, I'm all for like making a motion and saying, I'd be happy to make a motion that says the board is in favor of moving towards a rec center but I guess I'm wondering what are the tangible steps, and how do we actually take steps instead of just talking about it like what's the step we can make like tonight to move the ball forward. So the question is that step, and then I would ask for your patience with me as I, as I work with the city administration. I believe that we have a funding source to fund it, but until you know city manager and Karen are on board with that I think it would be premature for me to say a whole lot about that. I think that when when we built the Longmont rec center, we would look at doing that same type of process with a consultant where we would go through a request for proposals, and that work would include public meetings that would get their input. One of the, one of the best meetings I remember in my 23 years of being with the city of Longmont was the design charrette that we did at the senior center. And we did what we called a car game and we had about 120 people there that night, and they were able to design their rec center that they wanted in each of these groups, based on having a $8 million budget, and that we had on the cards. This much to build a swimming pool, it costs this much to build a gymnasium. And what was very unique in what I would say, there's probably 12 groups that virtually every one of the groups designed exactly the same rec center. And it's the one that we have on quail now. It was a pretty cool process. Except for the part where people were yelling at kids that they don't get to vote because they don't pay taxes. Well, that wasn't very fun. Now, but the overall process was good, and would really hope that we could do something along that line. Again, and, and part of what Paige and I and David wanted to talk about is this evening is to get some of your input on what you think that process should look like in engaging with the public, maybe getting some feedback from you all of what you think should be included in, in that next facility. I was at that meeting Jeff and I remember that too that was fun. And I think we must go that way again, specifically to counter the word competitive that was in the last budget proposal. What was the, in my opinion, and I think some of the feedback we got was the problem, and the folks we talked to were all on the same page that we wanted a 50 meter pool for our girls and boys to go racing, and that's not what the general public voting wanted to hear. I think that's a great even if only 100 people come, you know, 10,000 people will hear about it and realize, Oh, we're designing the rec center. So I think, I mean, almost building another rec center like we have is probably what a lot of folks would like only in a different part of town. We could spread it out or spread the wealth and spread the crowd, but we should get direct feedback to that effect by having a meeting where you get to design one, or, you know, you get to pick a place, you know, under these constraints, etc. Your buy in early will help get anything past later. I mean, maybe this is all obvious, but it's clearly a lesson we need to have learned from three years ago. Yeah, I would agree. And I think we would also have meetings with stakeholders whether those are swim groups or, you know, basketball players or you know we would reach out to pick up all people to get as much feedback as possible so that we're not only talking to the general public, but specific user groups as well. So one thing I was wondering about as we were talking about this, you know, we you also have the notion of a potential second outdoor pool facility and you know there's, we don't know exactly the future of Centennial and how that might fit and so part of the wording on the calendar items is sort of recreation facilities. I mean it might be a facility or facilities and I just wonder if it makes sense to as at least part of the scoping to look at, you know, how we might maximize the opportunity and expanding, you know, new recreation infrastructure for the city. And we do you think it makes sense as we're talking to the to the public, not just about, you know, another indoor recreation building but could we think about things like, and you know the out then new another outdoor pool as part of the scoping. I think we could or other other things. Yeah, yeah, and, you know, the rec center next month will be 20 years old. And, and there may be a reinvestment that we need to do there also to kind of polish it up a little bit if you will. I don't think that we should limit ourselves just to a conversation about a new rec center I think that's probably all of our priorities, but what are we going to do a Centennial and in the master plan. It talks about converting that from a swimming pool facility into more of a community center where the area where the pool is is exactly the same size as to full court basketball courts. And, you know, there's the possibly the renovation of sunset, the addition of another large outdoor pool I think we should not narrow our conversation too much that maybe it can all happen at once but that we talk about the full need of what our community is interested in. Yeah, I guess the question is, is anybody on the board believe that there isn't a need for more recreational facilities in the city. Before we put together a motion for which I think it's our next step, but I'd like to hear somebody if somebody believes that we have more than enough doesn't seem to be this way from being on the board but I think we're contrarian that there's a contrarian on it on the board first. And it's okay to have that opinion we, we would like everybody to to share what they think their thoughts are that that's a great point Scott. I'm raising my hand to say that we don't need I'm raising my hand to add to what you're all saying, but I think we do need more. Can I chime in, I didn't seem like anyone had a dissenting vote towards increasing rec centers is that a right page. Hold on that thing that Scott just said I mean, I guess all I wanted to know and this is maybe directed to Jeff is like sunset for example if a bill if a or or quail, if a facility just needs to be updated. There's some form of prism budget or things like that that that are incremental like repairs and things like that as opposed to taking Centennial and converting it to a basketball court that would be a, a shift of what the facility is meant for like, there must be a budget for both quail and sunset to keep it running right or is that not true. It's a budget but I think that part of what I'm talking about is at the rec center, not only paint, but one of the things we'd like to do in the pool area is replace the water slides. We'd like to add a new larger water feature for the younger kids, the smaller slide. So, updating the climbing wall, all of those things that are beyond what we have in our operating budget to do. So are you suggesting there's some sort of, I mean this is not a full master plan but some sort of like proposal for the whole portfolio of rec centers that would be like change Centennial and update sunset to do X and change quail to do this and also, just this amazing new facility and you're suggesting that's one proposal. Yeah, and certainly it doesn't mean that we would go forward with all of them we have all the information. I think we want the city administration and council to have the full picture for them to be able to make the decision on what does or doesn't go on a ballot question. So do you imagine, I'm sorry, having this conversation but I do imagine that for quail for example, you listed some ideas. Do you feel like it's this board's place to, to brainstorm on our own ideas that we think we should add or is that feel like something that staff already has and it would be more of a you presenting these are the things that we'd like to include in a upgrade to quail, is that more of the direction you would imagine it would go. So it could be either way, I certainly would be interested in hearing the board's feedback. I think the parameter I would say is it's got to be within the envelope we have of a building it wouldn't be adding on, you know, another gym or anything like that. Any other comments or questions from the board minnows. We already exercised few times and passed the motion to go into that direction. I don't think any one of them was against or any point was made against it so I think we are going into that direction. I would say sometimes soon I'm going to have to help my daughter go to bed so I would like to preemptively vote in favor of whatever motions we make. There are enough of you that you don't need my vote. I vote yes towards whatever we come up with as a group towards this. And I'll be back as soon as I can I'm not leaving yet, but I will have to leave in a few minutes. Well I think it would be I do have some proposed language if you want to hear it, but I don't want to cut off discussion. I think it's appropriate more appropriate that Jeff is with us if we're going to entertain a motion. I can tell you when I need to go and we can decide if we're at a point and I won't be gone for more than six minutes. Your daughter is better than my son then because he would never go to sleep that fast. Wow. I'm just doing the. I love you goodnight part. It's okay. Okay. Nicholas is there anything you want to add before we consider any motion language. No, I'm excited that we're revisiting it now it feels like a more appropriate time to dive into this. So one thing that I put in there in the next is certainly we want to, when we have these conversations about designing the rec center certainly want to make sure that it's meeting the public's needs, and is going to appeal to a wider group of folks. And make sure that we're, we're thinking about the sustainability of it from a perspective of, will it cover itself in terms of the revenue we're generating from it, or the cover and the expenses of the maintaining the facility, and that will might help us. And at the, the valid side as well because I think it will make it a more compelling offer. So, one other thought I wanted to add to the mix. Great. Is that it. So, can I respond to that page. Yeah. So, I think it depends on where you draw the line of what we're going to recover or not. I think the general operation of the facility will be recovered at 100% or greater. That doesn't include large replacement. So just a couple of years ago we had to replace a HVAC unit at the rec center. That replacement was paid for out of the facility maintenance budget so it would not cover those kind of things but the cost of staff, the cost of, you know, general maintenance it would cover that utilities. But big items, it would not cover cover those. And what I would say we would propose is that if we believe there's going to be a shortcoming on the amount of money to maintain it. There would be some type of operational support we'd need to ask for, because it wouldn't make sense to, to build this brand new beautiful building and then we can't afford to maintain it so it would, it would have to have a possibility of an additional or yeah additional tax to help pay for that. So, I've just been trying to draft something we might quickly consider. So let me just read it and we can discuss the language. So the parks and recreation advisory board urges the Longmont City Council to prioritize near term action on the public scoping financial analysis and conceptual design needed to pursue expanded recreation facilities for the city. Further we respectfully request a reply from the council regarding the status of this discussion. We can keep or not keep the last sentence but just hoping to hear back. My thought is that they will get back to us I don't think we need that. Tim, if you could give your opinion about that. I can tell you, first of all understand I understand the reason for the sentence. Not everybody feels like we always get back to them but yeah if you if you advance that motion or you approve that motion. And Jeff or David will get it through the channels and it'll show up before the council. I have no doubt we'll get back and I would, I would commit to you that I would, I'll do everything I can to make certain that that loop gets closed. So, any, I was just trying to. I really think one of the first key steps is going to be that public scoping so that any, you know, design and analysis and things can be focused on at least a better understanding of what the public need is now what the public wants now. So I tried to put those key elements in there but I'm open to any and all amendments to that language. Is there a way to share your screen so we can read it because I, I would. Yeah, sure. I just see it myself. You didn't memorize it while I was saying it. Yeah, let me move it back over here. Thank you. I find that very well done brief and to the point and if I add anything else it'll just be repeating phrases over again, which feels a little bit insulting. So I think you're good the way it is, you know, it leaves us a lot of open room. And I think the staff for that matter Jeff and David about how to proceed, you know, getting public opinion, etc, etc, where and it shows I think that crab as a board is excited and ready to get going. I feel like that's that's where I'm at all those things and I feel like hearing the discussion. Most of us are all that way to so nicely done is my summary. That and then nickel. My only my only question is, can we, I mean, is it appropriate to add or should we add that that the members of Prab already believe that the need exists. Right. So, we're urging city council to scope the, you know, do the public scoping for what, what the actual building will look like but I really like to, I'd like to convey. We've heard from the public over and over again kind of like what Jeff was saying earlier, like two or three years ago and to now we constantly hear the public wants this. What it looks like and what shape it takes or whatever seems to be the detail in the process but I'd like to that helps with urgency. Council making a decision or helping to advance it at all. That would be my two sounds. I don't want to cut this off but I need to leave for a few minutes so I'm happy to let you all talk and I can come back and join the conversation I don't know is it a rush to vote right now why don't. The group talk a little more and I'll be back in five minutes and then that way we can all be in a minute is that seem better. Sorry. Is that okay. I'll be back. We'll wait for you. The weather. I mean I'm trying to maybe incorporate that because I do think it is. Yeah, I think that looks great. I think something on that would be great. I think the hard members can chime in whether you think that's too heavy handed but or it's already assumed in the original. Any detail we request instead of we request. Yeah. I hate typo. So thank you. It's fun watching you work this is great. Anything that gives anyone any concern. Thank you. I mean, you just nitpicky but I just think that the word believes is kind of a soft. Soft way to do it it should be more like in our opinion is kind of a weak way to say it as opposed to we urgently, you know, request this right, just more like a tone kind of thing. That's just my my two cents on that. I'm trying to think how to. I think you're in concise message, especially the, the how it, the last sentence. I think urgently is the tone we are sitting there urgently need maybe offset the softness of the belief. Yeah. Oh, you're back Jeff, that was fast. I've been told there may be one more. Goodbye. Good night in a moment, but I'm staying here. Okay. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, you're going to, you'll do what you want to do with this. In that first part of the, of the paragraph to is I think this is an accurate statement based on what you've heard, or the input you've received from the community or from the public. You've concluded that this should be an urgent consideration or urgently considered what you know you'll work out the language. But I do think it's meaningful, especially based on what Scott, how he reflected on the all the input you've had and I have no doubt that's true. Since the, the disappointment with the ballot question a couple of years ago three years ago. If you can ground your recommendation in, in public input or what you've heard from the public, I think it strengthens the recommendation. You could switch believes now to concludes. Yeah, rather than a belief it's a conclusion based on the input that that's the point. I agree. Good feedback. Should I change it to conclude looking for a nodding. Yeah, I like concludes, but the based in is a soft is a soft entry as well. So, in large part, just based on public feedback, not. All right, you know, like my qualifier. Yeah, let's go for the gusto. The last part of our board purpose was, we are public and we know folks who are public so this is what we do. And so then did you have another comment already just have your hands still raised. Now I just don't know when to pull my hand down sorry. If this looks okay, I would accept a motion to in this regard, Dan. I move that the proud board accepts this. I guess the letter to the city council or whatever statement to the city council that we approve this and present it to city council. Second. Are you second day. Absolutely second that whole hardly, and I'm excited. All right, all those in favor. Any opposed. The motion passes. You're our delivery vehicle. Yes, could you send that to David and I. That statement. Yes. Yeah. Thank you everybody. Happy to. Great. I look forward to many more conversations about this. One or two and then one or two conversations of passes were done. Come on. Yeah, it's only. Okay. Any other discussion before we move to items from the packet. Okay. Anyone have questions or items they'd like clarification from from what was included in the packet. Seeing none items from staff. So you had made the suggestion about a retreat is that something we should add on the agenda for next month. Or do you want to talk about that at all this evening if there's even any interest in that. I was going to bring that up under my items from board. I don't mind whenever. Okay. I don't have anything else. Any items from staff. David. Kathy. Anything. Nothing here. Thank you. Great. Okay. Items from the board. Yeah. I like the item you just mentioned, and I was going to chime in on that one. Do you want to say your idea or does it. Does it count that you already said it. About the retreat. Yeah, I have an idea for retreat. I guess I'll just, I'll just say it. Like. This is the reason I wanted to be on the board. What we just talked about. And rather than visiting a. An outdoor facility like we'd or a variety of outdoor resources. Like we did last time. We could say, well, let's visit one of long months. Recreation facilities. But my idea is what if we visited. Other local recreation facilities that are not part of long month. Like, for example, the apex center down in Arvada, that's amazing. Or I don't know of all of them, but like, maybe that would be a great opportunity to do some fact finding. I'm jumping the gun. I'm like, oh, we're doing this. So now let's start focusing on what we want to see this rec center be, but. That's just an idea. And we don't need to do that. I'm just saying it because I thought of it just now. And that's kind of what I do. I like it. I might put it in more in the field. Category though. I got confused. I, I confused field trip with retreat. Sorry. But I mean, we could have a retreat where we, we do some design thinking or something fun like that. Related to what we envision the rec center. We could each bring ideas. Kind of similar to the game that Jeff would describe it with the cards. That would be a fun retreat also. Sorry. I confused the field trip with the retreat. Yeah. Yeah. Now quickly, it just, I put the retreat idea out there just because I personally would really like the opportunity to just learn more about some of the topics, but. I'm before us and we don't necessarily have time to dig into them. And I know. Council, for example, has. Study sessions, you know, where they can get together and have presentations or learn about topics. Without. I mean, we would still have to have it as a public meeting, but not having the formality of like voting, voting, and, you know, like a business agenda and things like that. So I was thinking it would be a good opportunity for us to invite in staff or speakers or, you know, just to learn about some of the topics. So I'd love to hear if anyone else thinks that's a good idea, because if not, we can just push it to the side. I do like your field tour idea though, Jeff. Yeah. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I know I was just chiming in that saying that I'm all for that. I love learning more about. Different aspects that we're talking about because a lot of times we just kind of mentioned them. So. Any other thoughts. On the retreat idea. Should we flush that out a little bit more and. Bring it up next time. Yeah, David and David and I can talk about it and. You know, I think we're going to be able to, you know, talk about it and present next month more. More specifics of types of things or topics that we could talk about that would. I think help the conversation. And that would just add page that I think. That you guys have a pretty engaged staff you're dealing with. And so we can probably talk for. A lot of time about each of our individual niches within this. Department. It could go on for a couple of days. And then we could get a conference room. That sort of thing. But, but yeah, no, I think whatever you guys want to hear about. We would be pretty entertained to try to stretch that out for as long as you want to hear about it. So. David. I was just going to say what Steve basically did. I think staff is fully willing to open up and have longer conversations. Thanks. Sometimes when we get a question from staff in this forum, I almost feel like we just cut them off with the short because of the time piece of we could dig a little deeper. I think staff would appreciate that. I mean, I mean, you know, if we feel like we do a better job of explaining it, and then we could even leave some homework at that point. So I just, you know, staff is, I think, we're very supportive of that idea. Really appreciate that. And we do feel lucky to have great staff that work with our board. Any other items from the board. You guys got all your conversation out about the rec center. Dan. Well, I hope this is the right forum. But I'm reading David's update. And then right after it was Dan's update. And what I noticed was that in David's, the same six or similar six. Park and trail development items are there. It looks like it's Kathy, Kathy, Steve, Steve, Steve. Kathy. And I know that you guys are busy as heck. You've told us that before Steve, but then I noticed on the next page, I got to hire two new people. And I wonder, is that something we should be involved in? As a board, you know, encouraging the city to get you guys more resources, or is this out of our purview? I'll use this as kind of a, I'll jump right in, I think. So I've. I think it's a great opportunity to be a part of this board. And I think it's a great opportunity. To be. Tentative and trying to use this board to try to get certain things for the staff. But I think this board and being with it now five years. And knowing that it's pretty obvious as you look at our work plans and what you think it needs to move us forward. I think having those conversations are important pieces. I think there's no way that I could sit here and talk to this board and say that we have a work plan that we know we're behind on. So I think we should be more honest with this board and say the work plan probably needs to reflect what we really can get done. So. I guess what I'm going to say with that is this board is I think smart enough and aware enough and has the information laid out there to try to say, if we'd like to move things forward, there are certain resources that we could probably use. And I'm happy to have those conversations. And I think just reading through this packet, you get that, you get that information. And I think that's beneficial. And I think that's really important. And I think one of the things that we need to be aware of is that in Dan's world and open space, you're not really competing with the general fund. So that's the piece to this. You look at. Ken Houston, my water resources group, Dan in the open space. We have a fund that, you know, our community has dedicated funds to say, we think these are important areas and we need to have dedicated funds to make sure we can purchase, maintain and manage those. Doesn't the same thing with our parks program. But again, we're going as Steve said earlier, more of a community. Who you're working on. And I think, you know, we're really, we're going to give you some information and we're going to see we can get a little bit of investment in police. And other general fund items out there. So it really. Can have your voice sort of silenced, as you kind of just muted as you did those bigger conversations. So I think any chance we get for the community to weigh in on how they think moving forward with these projects is important. Is an opportunity for our community to kind of help us. Move those forward. So. That's what I'm trying not to do either, so. I want to help is the bottom line and how can I help, right? And I think I just wanted to add, I think David had a good segue into what I was thinking. I recall working with the board when we did the parks recreation and trails master plan back in 2013-ish. But one really great educational exercise that the board asked was they wanted to really understand all of the funding sources in the city's budget, especially related to parks, open space recreation and trails and just understand kind of what David walked you through, the whys of why can we fund this and why can't we fund that and kind of the history of that. So that might be something educational that you might be interested in. I thought it was really beneficial when we worked with the board on that. There's an appendix in the current master plan that kind of has it all lined out if you're interested. I will also note that on our calendar for March in conjunction with the capital improvement project, there's a little bullet that says capacity and staffing needs in recreation, parks and open space. So I'm hoping that you guys will share with us sort of any capacity gaps that you see that we might want to consider in whatever way is appropriate. Thank you. I missed that page, thank you. Any other items from the board? If there's nothing else, I think we're ready to adjourn. I need a motion to adjourn the meeting. I would gladly make a motion to adjourn this meeting. Thank you. I'll second. Dan. That got me already. All those in favor? Great. The motion passes and the meeting is adjourned.