 Fon hwn di, nwerth eto i chi gyd. When I spoke to you on Friday, I said I would report back with the outcome of the discussions we held over the weekend about the new set of national measures which will be put in place here in Wales when the fire break comes to an end a week from today next Monday. Ministers have been meeting throughout the weekend to consider the final details of these measures. Our plans and our discussions have had to adapt to the unexpected announcement by the Prime Minister that England will start a month-long lockdown on Thursday. I want to be absolutely clear that our fire break will end as planned and as promised on Monday, November 9. But we do now have to consider the impact the English lockdown will have on the next steps we take in Wales. We need to do this because we share a long and porous border between Wales and England. Every day, on a non-lockdown day, almost 150,000 people crisscross this border to work, to visit family, shop, do business, and to travel. And every day, a huge volume of goods and services flow through Wales to England and vice versa. The English lockdown inevitably has an impact on people who live in Wales but work in England, on companies operating in both England and Wales and on businesses trading along the border. We will be coming out of our fire break just as England begins its month-long lockdown. And it is really important that, as we open up, Wales doesn't become an escape for people seeking to circumvent the new tighter restrictions imposed by the Prime Minister. We want to keep Wales safe and we want to keep the United Kingdom safe as well. Now, when the fire break ends next Monday, there will be a new set of national measures which will replace the previous local restrictions. But more important than any rules, guidance or regulations, which we put in place, will be the part which each one of us plays in responding to the ongoing public health emergency we face in Wales. We can introduce new laws but these will only be successful if we all do everything we can to reduce our exposure to the virus by keeping the contacts we have with other people to a minimum at home, in work and when we go out. We need to do the minimum, not the maximum which the rules allow or real strength lies as it has been throughout the pandemic in the choices we make and the actions which we take together. Now, when we came out of lockdown in the spring, we took a cautious approach, relaxing restrictions gradually to make sure that we did not lose all the gains we had worked so hard to achieve. We will once again take that approach. For the first two weeks after the fire break ends, the national measures will be designed to maximise the impact of everything that we have done together during the fire break period to control the spread of the virus and we will review the situation in the fortnight's time to see whether we can make any further changes. I turn out to what all this means in practice. During the fire break, it has only been possible to see the people you live with within your own home. Now, as a result of the fire break and all we have done, we can do more. We all want our homes to be welcoming places, but we also want them to be safe places. One of the most common misconceptions about coronavirus is that we catch it from people we don't know. In fact, we are more likely to catch it from and pass it on to the people we are in closest contact with every day. These are our families, our loved ones and the people we live with. As from Monday 9 November, two households in Wales will be able to join together to form a bubble or extended household. To help keep everybody as safe as possible at home, only people from your own household or that extended household will be able to meet in your own home. The rules around meeting people are perhaps the most difficult that we have to consider and that is why we ask people to think about what they should do rather than simply what they can do. We know that changing the rules to allow two households to join together and to meet at home, which will be very valuable for many, many households in Wales, doesn't reflect the family dynamics of many people and it doesn't enable friends and young people to meet. Beyond November 9, there will be new arrangements to meet indoors in other settings such as pubs, bars, cafes and restaurants, but because all these places will now be closed in England, we are having to think further about how the hospitality sector in Wales can operate in these new circumstances and that consideration will continue into this afternoon. In relation to organised activity, up to 15 people will be able to meet together to take part in an indoors activity and up to 30 in outdoors activities provided of course, as ever, that all social distancing, hand hygiene and other Covid safety measures are followed. As from the 9th of November, schools will reopen in full. Working from home will become even more important and all business premises, which have been shut since the 23rd of October, will be able to reopen again on Monday of next week. Local authority services will resume reflecting local circumstances and places of worship will be able to reopen. There will be no travel restrictions inside Wales, but during the month-long lockdown in England, travel will not be permitted outside Wales without a reasonable excuse. Now as I explained on Friday, we continue to see large numbers of people falling ill with coronavirus in Wales. We have over a thousand hospital beds occupied by people with coronavirus-related conditions. Very sadly, again over this weekend, we had to report more families losing loved ones to this awful virus. We still have a week left of the firebreak period. A week to make a real difference to the course of this virus, to prevent our NHS from being overwhelmed and to save lives. As ever, I wanted to thank everyone for everything that you have done so far. Together, we continue to keep Wales safe. Diolch yn fawr i chi gyd. As I turn to take questions from journalists, all the answers, as you know, will be broadcast live on our own social media challenges. First today, over to Dan Davies of BBC Wales. Thanks First Minister, and be really grateful if you could answer these in English and in Welsh please. You said this morning that people should only do what is genuinely necessary, but you're permitting people to do all sorts of things that may not be genuinely necessary after the firebreak to go to the pub or go out for a meal. Aren't you in effect saying that if people should only leave their homes when it's genuinely necessary, then society is basically being asked to impose its own lockdown? Dan, what I'm saying to people in Wales is this, that we will have this new simple set of national rules beyond the firebreak period, but that if people approach that period by asking themselves what is the maximum that I can do, how many things can I now take part in in Wales, how many people can I meet, how far can I travel, that that will simply lead us all back into the difficulties that we have faced in this autumn. So what we have to have is a set of national rules together with the ongoing determination of people in Wales to do the right thing for every one of us to ask ourselves that question. What contribution can we make to keeping ourselves and others safe? And that doesn't mean trying to stretch the rules to do even more. It means taking that responsibility in our own lives to do the things that keep us all safe. That's the message I was trying to convey this morning and I want to convey it again now. People in Wales have made the most enormous effort. When the firebreak is over, I do not want that to be a signal to people that those efforts can come to an end. If we're ready to get the benefits of the firebreak period, we all need to behave in the weeks that follow by asking us not what can I do, but what should I do. And in that way, we will go on together helping to bring the coronavirus under control and to give us a pathway through to Christmas and beyond. So anegais pwy sydd gais i ddan i hefyd i bobl angymru eiwyr, o'r cyfnod, o'r toriad tan. Y cwestiwn i'w nid beth alla i wneud ond beth dylai i wneud. Beth i'w y cyfraniad alla i wneud i warchodd fe hwnna'n a pobl eirall? A beth wyddim yn ysiau weld ar ôl y cyfnod o'r toriad tan i'w bobl just feddwl beth alla i wneud an o'r dda'u, a rheola dda'u gennyd leithol a asymlach. Ffaint o bobl alla i gwrdd da, ble o ble alla i deithio. Dyda hwnna ddim yn mynd i lwydo i helpu ni i gyd i ddeliw gyda'r lydain adcoron y virus. A ffordd gorau i wneud e, i wneud gyd cariwm lan gyda popeth i wneud i wneud a gilydd. I, cael gwared arcaron y virus amma angymru trwy, wneud pethau mewn ffordd sy'n cymryd cyfrifol debau sy'n dany i gyd ac amddwyn mewn ffordd sy'n gallu helpu ni i warchod pobol sy'n agos un i ac cymryd gyfan. Fy hi eich yma, y Y Uned o'r Uned Oedzydd y Llywodraeth peida? Fydwodd i gweithio why cymuned yma sy'n gyfeilio gyda'i gwybod a'r rhan o'r pethon yn gweithio'r Llywodraeth? Fy bo i fod yn gallu bod y maen i'n gweithio hyd yn fwrdd. A dyna sy'n gweithio'n ffaith i amser o ymchwil o',r bobl. Fy oherwydd mae Uned o'r Llywodraeth. Well, Dan, if we were not part of the United Kingdom, we would not be having a discussion about furrow at all, and the millions and millions of pounds that have been spent in supporting people who are unable to work during coronavirus would not be here for us to use. So, of course, I think it strikes me and it will strike people in Wales as unfair that when we asked for flexibility, we were told that none was possible, and when the UK government decided to move for England, suddenly that flexibility was found. The Treasury is the Treasury for the whole of the United Kingdom, not just one part of it. But without the UK Treasury and without being part of that great insurance policy, we wouldn't be debating whether or not we were getting furrow on fair terms because we wouldn't be getting help with furrow at all. And where independence is concerned, we have already an independent Senate here able to make decisions that are right for Wales. Throughout the coronavirus period, I have used independently the powers that we have as a Welsh government to make decisions that are right for Wales. So, I sometimes think the debate, the polarising debate between independence and what we've got misses the point, really. We have independent scope to act and use it all the time, but we do it under the umbrella that the United Kingdom provides to us, and one which we have drawn on the strength of that throughout this crisis. Dan Dychfawr, over to Adrian Masters of ITV Wales. Thank you, First Minister. You said that discussions continue this afternoon about the hospitality sector. You had promised all sectors that they would get a week's notice to be able to prepare. Can you tell them that they will get that decision today? And also, can you confirm what sort of things you're looking at? Is it keeping pubs and restaurants closed altogether or different rules in border areas? Adrian, I don't want to keep those places closed. I want to see them reopen in Wales. But the Prime Minister's decision over the weekend does inevitably create a different context. If pubs are closed along the border in England, then there is bound to be a risk that people will try to break the law, because the law in England will say to them that they should not travel into Wales, because pubs here will be open and serving alcohol. So, I don't want our police forces to be diverted into having to police the border because we have a situation that we hadn't anticipated and we haven't had a chance to think through. Had that not happened, I would simply have been announcing today that everything would reopen on the same terms as they would have operated on 22 October. But the context has changed. It's important we talk to the sector, that we get a set of arrangements that work for them and that prevent unintended consequences from causing us difficulties beyond that sector. And I want to get those decisions as quickly as possible, but more than getting them quickly, I want to get them right. And that means being prepared to talk to people, hear their views and then to come to the decisions that we will need to make. Thank you. And could you also tell me what you're thinking is on visits to care homes? That's something that's important for the mental well-being of residents as well as families. Will visits be allowed to take place? Well, care homes are a constant cause of concern to us all, because once a virus gets into a care home, we know how fast it can spread amongst a very vulnerable population and we know the devastation that can follow. And we've tried our best to learn the lessons from the earlier part of the year. Our care home visits are still happening in Wales. And while I don't want to say this in the sense of offering false hope to people, one of the things that we do have some optimism that things will develop over the weeks ahead is that a new generation of tests may become available where people will be able to administer themselves and they'll be able to get the answers very quickly within, let us say, half an hour. So I have asked our officials here to work with the care home sector to see as those tests become available, where the use for care home visiting would be a priority, one of the top things that we would use those tests for as they become available to us in Wales. Because if that were the case, someone could come to a care home, administer the test themselves while they were waiting in the car, and within half an hour they would know that they had a test that was positive or negative. And if it was positive, of course, you couldn't visit, but if it was negative, the visit could go ahead. And I think that does offer us a different path through this very difficult dilemma where we want to protect people who live in care homes, but of course we want people to be able to have the comfort of knowing that they can be seen by their loved ones as well. And if those tests do come on stream and there is some optimism that they will, then care home visiting is at the top of the list of things that we would want to explore for putting them to work here in Wales. Adrian, thank you. Over to Andy Davies, a Channel 4. Thank you. First Minister, you said there will be no travel permitted outside Wales without a reasonable excuse. What does that mean in terms of people visiting Wales from England? Will the Welsh regulations prohibit that, regardless of what the English regulations say? No, it will be the same broad system on both sides of the border. People who live in Wales but work in England will have a reasonable reason for travelling to work, and people who live in England and work in Wales will equally have a reasonable excuse for coming across the border to work here. But it will be a restricted list of essential purposes rather than the normal toing and froing across the border that you would have seen in less fraught and difficult times. And what would your message be to those people in England who might be considering coming to Wales to visit a pub or a restaurant during the lockdown period in England? Well, my message to them is that they must obey the law in England, and the law in England will not allow that to happen. And it will not allow that to happen for very good reasons, that the measures that have been put in place in England are designed to turn back the scale of challenge that coronavirus is now causing to our friends and our neighbours across the border. Those rules will have been put in place by the Prime Minister for very good reasons, and people in England need to follow them, just as I always ask people in Wales to follow the rules that we put in place for people here. Andy, thank you to Will Hayward at Wales Online. Thank you, First Minister. England is seeing more cases and deaths than their reasonable worst case scenario model predicted. Is Wales also above its projections? And does that mean there is likely to be more deaths than the 6,300 that were previously feared? Can you just talk us through the most up-to-date reasonable worst case scenario modelling for Wales, please? Yeah, well, thank you. So before we took the decision to institute a firebrick here in Wales, we were tracking a reasonable worst case scenario. We weren't exceeding it, but we were going along the pathway that the Swansea modelling suggested would be the worst case, and that's why we instituted the firebrick. Now we've asked Swansea to do the modelling again for us to take into account the impact of a firebrick period, and we'll have the results of that, I'm sure, shortly. But we weren't exceeding it, as they have reported in England, but we were tracking it, and that was a strong signal to us of the need to act and to act early here in Wales. Thank you. Can you also talk us through the plan for local lockdowns now? If there is a local outbreak, will you follow a similar model as before with the figure of 50 cases per 100,000 as the benchmark? And will the restrictions imposed be the same as before? And could I just ask for a confirmation? Can you confirm that people in Wales are now able to book holidays in Wales, such as in Bluestone, after the firebrick? Yes, on the final point, I can confirm that. People will be able to travel within Wales. They won't be confined to their local authority area, as was the case during the local lockdowns, and tourism will be able to reopen. So the answer is yes on that. In relation to how we will deal with local flare-ups beyond the 9th of November, well, first of all, let me just say we're bound to face those local flare-ups, and we will need to take local action. We will be discussing later this week, because it's not a decision we had to make for today, and there have been an awful lot of decisions we've had to get in place for today. We will be discussing later in the week with our colleagues in local government, with the local outbreak management teams, how those decisions should be allocated at the moment. The decisions essentially lie with Welsh Ministers on the advice of local IMTs. We want to see whether it might make better sense for there to be a greater level of local flexibility, autonomy and responsibility, so that those who are closest to those local outbreaks can institute for themselves more local measures. But that is an open question, and one that we will work on with those local partners as this week goes on. Well, thank you, Dr Othory, Adam Hale and P.A. On that, please, Nidog, you said this morning that you wouldn't consider extending Wales's current lockdown to end when England's will, because you shook a bargain with the Welsh public to end it on November 9. If the science tells you that a longer lockdown would fit the population, and put us in a better position to weather the storm, why does that not take priority over any political embarrassment that could be caused by performing a U-turn on the end date? Well, Adam, I want to be clear with people that decisions in Wales cannot and will not be driven by decisions that other people take in different circumstances. Last week I was being asked a lot of questions about why we had a firebreak at all when in England they were dealing with it by a tiered system and why hadn't we done that? At the end of the weekend the Prime Minister changes his mind and then now I'm asked why I don't follow the latest twist in the English story and simply we will not be driven by things that happen in that way. The advice we had from our chief medical officer and our scientists was that if we acted early and if we had a 17-day period which was short but sharp and we've really asked an extraordinary amount of people in Wales over these 17 days that the science told us that that would be what we needed to help us to turn back the tide of coronavirus in Wales. That's the decision that we took, it was based on the science and exactly the way that you've suggested and we will stick to that because we think that that is the best result for people here in Wales in the circumstances we face. Thank you and you've already mentioned a new generation of tests made me becoming available over here. What work has the government been doing completed or near completion during this firebreak period in order to improve the country's defences against the virus? There were calls obviously when they were before from opposition members about improving the test and trace system for example. So we've been using the two weeks as we said we would to strengthen a number of parts of the system in Wales. We've been working with all local health boards to make sure that they can bring forward if necessary their plans to open part of our extended capacity in the health service, the field hospitals and we have been recruiting hard to our TTP teams. We are establishing a new central team that we can deploy to strengthen the local teams when there are particular outbreaks in different parts of Wales and testing is part of all of this as well and as I say and I don't want to pretend that there are any magic bullets in any of this but one of the more promising developments is that we may have a different generation of tests at the moment as you know you've got to take yourself somewhere the test itself is going to be taken to a laboratory there's an inevitable period before the test comes back. There are new tests which we are piloting in some parts of Wales already and have been involved our clinicians have been involved in developing which as I say will be a different sort of test more like a pregnancy test that people will be familiar with where you administer it yourself and you get the result very quickly. Now if that is the case and if that sort of testing becomes available on a significant scale then that will alter the way in which we are able to plan pathways ahead for us in Wales while we go on living with the virus. I've given an indication this morning already of some of the priorities that we would have if such tests became available and working on all of that that also has been very much part of what we have been doing over these two weeks. Adam Dychefawr over to Dan Bevan at LBC. Thank you First Minister good afternoon from what I gather you're sort of saying two things here one that people in Wales can have most of their freedoms back but also that we can't leave Wales without a reasonable excuse so sort of two things on this the you said that the tourism industry can open up in Wales does that mean that people can't leave Wales through Cardiff airport which remains open and will people be fined if they leave Wales without a reasonable excuse? Dan international travel will not be allowed up until the beginning of December because international travel is not going to be allowed to people in England and we've decided it just doesn't make sense to leave that possibility open to people in Wales when only Cardiff airport would be available to them and leaving Cardiff airport open would be a magnet we know to draw people from other parts of the United Kingdom into Wales at a point where we don't want that to happen so that is something that has changed as a result of the Prime Minister's statement on Saturday and we've decided that that is the simplest and safest way to to prevent the risk of people traveling inside the United Kingdom in a way that wouldn't be sensible and you know they will be a penalty regime it's inevitable it's not our first resort you know I say this every time in Wales penalties are the last resort when we've run out of our ability to explain to inform to educate to persuade when people knowingly deliberately flout the rules that are there to protect us all it is inevitable that there have to be consequences thank you and first time around coming out of the march lockdown we had the stay local laws the five mile rule or guidance as you called it and I wonder why you haven't gone for that approach once again and also is that an admission that it didn't work to protect the smaller more rural communities oh well back in the earlier part of this year it certainly did work was a very important part of our ability to put those parts of Wales where tourism is such an important part of the local economy in a position where we were able to reopen that part of the economy in those parts of Wales it was a very important part of our defence now we've looked very carefully at the position in Wales we've looked very carefully at the advice we get from behavioural scientists that say the simpler the rules are the clearer they are the easier they are for people to follow there's only one part of Wales today that is below the 50 per 100,000 threshold everywhere else is above it and the rationale of protecting some low incidence areas from high incidence areas doesn't really apply in Wales at the moment I said earlier in my opening statement that we will review all of this in two weeks time if the impact of the lockdown of the firebreak period is that we see a reemergence of a pattern where there are high incidence and low incidence parts of Wales then we will have to think again about travel arrangements in Wales but as of today it doesn't protect many places at all to stop people from travelling freely in Wales and a simple national rule that says you can travel inside Wales please only do it if it's necessary please don't think that from the 9th of November the fact that you can travel is somehow an instruction to travel it's absolutely not but while we are in the position we are then it makes sense to allow people to do so we'll review it in two weeks time and see whether it is still the right answer for Wales Dan thank you very much over to Rupert Evelyn at ITN thank you first minister can I just confirm on your your ban on international travel to leave are people from other countries still allowed to visit Wales Rupert I'm afraid the line wasn't wasn't great and I missed quite a lot of the question I heard the the very end bit of it where people are able to travel into the United Kingdom then they will be able to travel into Wales but they will be faced with the same quarantine arrangements that they have been up until now and can I just ask is this the hardest the border has frankly ever been between Wales and England I think that may well be the case for several centuries at least you know when we introduced our arrangements which asked people not to travel into Wales from high incidence areas elsewhere we were pretty heavily criticised by some political parties for doing so now that it has been found necessary to do that in England I think that people can at least understand that we were never doing it in Wales just for the sake of the border what we were trying to do always was to stop travel from high incidence areas to low incidence areas wherever they may be and others are now finding it necessary to do the same thing thank you over to Rob Taylor at rexham.com the newly published Welsh Government survey of public views indicates that perhaps only 57% of people stuck to only leaving home for essential trips during the first week of firebreak with the focus now on personal responsibility why do you think the remaining people who didn't follow that rule will now listen well there's a variety of information about what happened to travel during the first week of the firebreak and actually there's quite good evidence of travel has reduced very significantly they will be people who will be travelling for reasonable reasons you know people who have to go to work can travel people who have to attend medical appointments can travel people who are going to school can travel to do so so it was never the case that travel would be eliminated in Wales and I think there is good evidence that most people in Wales have understood the message and are abiding by those firebreak restrictions what we have to do is to persuade everybody to do that that's why we put so much emphasis on Friday and today on saying to people that the rules by themselves will never be enough to get us to where we need to be the rules have to be accompanied by a determination by every one of us to do the right thing and to ask ourselves the question about whether or not our actions are actions that are consistent with protecting ourselves and one another and that is a very important message to get out alongside the fact that there will be this new national set of rules the other side of the 9th of November thank you and what happens in Manchester and Liverpool the world and even Chester appears to impact north east wales going off tack documents and previous comments from our Government with areas of greatest concern in england being in the north west of england and the prospect of a lockdown there in a more open society in Wales is there anything specific being put in place to protect north east oils well first of all I agree with what you said Rob obviously where there are areas adjacent to the border that does have an impact on Wales the virus doesn't respect the border what is being put in place is a set of legal obligations in england to prevent people from coming across the border unless they have a good reason for doing so our police forces but also police forces on the other side of the border will have to play their part in making sure that that is enforced but in england as in wales the real way to persuade people to do the right thing is not to rely on enforcement and the rules alone but to appeal to enlightened self-interest the reason we're asking people to do this is because it protects you it protects your family it protects your community if you're not prepared to play your part you don't simply put yourself at risk but you create risk for all those other people who in any other circumstances would be your top priority and that is a message that I know colleagues in england will be giving and we will be continuing to reinforce it wherever we have the chance here thanks rob to tom moody at the south Wales argas thank you first minister so you've spoken about how there might be how there will be a slight delay on the new rules coming in for the hospitality sector is will the health and fitness industry be impacted by that same sort of delay or are they going to be able to reopen as they were from monday 9th they will be the gyms and the other things that were closed on the 23rd of october they will be able to reopen on the same terms as they previously traded on the 9th of november hey brilliant and um yeah we've we've seen some of the comments that you've made about the the lockdown in england have sort of been lost in translation as it were in sort of the national press um are you doing anything extra um now to make sure the messaging is clear um two people in england so that they should not be travelling to Wales over the next month well we've been making an effort over recent weeks we've been trying to place articles in local newspapers i've done some interviews for local media along the border and so on to try to explain why we were asking people not to visit Wales if they were coming from a high incidence area and making it clear that it wasn't to do with the border it was to do with the difference between where the virus is circulating very fast and where it's been in it's been less rising less quickly now at least that will be reinforced by the messages that the government in the united kingdom in its english responsibilities will be conveying to people in england and that won't just be in relation to visiting Wales it'll be the same at the border with scotland as well so the efforts we have been making will now be reinforced by everything that people are being told within england itself and i'm sure that that will help to reinforce that message tom thank you to steve bagnell at the daily post thank you first minister um you've previously said we won't see what the effects of the fire break will be on hold in the spread of the virus until afterwards but what are the figures telling us about those areas of Wales including north Wales rexham flincia dimsham conway that entered tight restrictions weeks before has this had an effect on bringing the race down and if so by how much uh what it has had the effect of steve is arresting the speed at which those figures were rising so i'm afraid this has been the pattern across wales we haven't succeeded by those huge local efforts in reducing coronavirus in many places but what we have been able to do is to stop it rising as fast as it otherwise would have done that's why we have some confidence that the fire break period coming on top of that will be sufficient to bring the virus back under control so those efforts have been really important they've been really important in north west wales we've had falling figures there again today but right across north wales the efforts that people have made have made a real and positive difference we will be in a much more difficult position today if it wasn't for all those efforts and our fire break would have had to have been longer and more severe than it has needed to be if we hadn't been able to harness the commitment of local people in the way that we have been able to over recent weeks thank you first minister and with news more pupils have been told so self-isolate recently um can you indicate whether exams will go ahead next year in wales or is the wales government looking at other alternatives now uh well thank you steve so uh some people listening and watching will know that we received two reports uh last week one from qualifications wales which suggested one way of dealing with examinations this year and a separate interim report from the group chaired by louise casella the director of the open university in wales who we've asked to look back over this year's experience and to give us advice uh the education minister will now consider both of those reports she was very keen not to make an announcement not to make an announcement and school schools were back this week so we could discuss those reports with head teachers with teacher unions she will make a statement to the senate on tuesday of next week the 10th of november so that we give students their parents and schools as much time as we can to prepare for whatever system of examination or assessment or awarding of grades that we can put in place here in wales for next year uh to naethan shusmith of the speaker thank you first minister good afternoon can you clarify what is defined as an organised activity under the new restrictions i does this include sports local community yarns et cetera and how do the rules differ for what is classified as a non-organised activity well uh naethan the essential way that we define an organised activity is if there is a body responsible for taking charge of what the regulations require which is that all reasonable measures have been taken to limit the risk of coronavirus in that setting now in sports that's often a governing body in a community centre uh that can be the local management committee of that community centre but it is organised because there is an individual or an organisation who can be held to account for complying with the law and that's why we will allow uh during this winter in community centres groups of up to 15 people to meet for organised indoor activities we thought very hard about that i've agreed to it because during the four months from now until the end of febru we know it'll be harder for people to meet outdoors and we need to provide more indoor opportunities but they've got to be organised activities they've got to be held under the control of an individual or an organisation who takes all the steps that the law requires in wells to make sure that that activity is run or that setting is organised in a way that minimizes the risk organized activities that take place outside the rules will very likely be in breach of the rules uh in wells thank you for clarifying that um you mentioned how you described the lockdown in england as a surprise um how has communication been with down in street had you been told anything or was it through uh elites uh that you found out about the lockdown and has it hindered your ability in any way to finalize the restrictions perhaps as quick because you would like to well it was a surprise to us because the prime minister uh even in the second half of last week was describing a national lockdown of a sort that's been introduced as a national disaster so it was a surprise to find a sudden change uh of uh tack not that i am criticising anybody for making those difficult decisions in their own circumstances uh we found out originally as many others did by hearing newspaper reports uh of this uh since then we have had more contact directly with the uk government i took part in a meeting with the other first ministers chaired by michael gove on saturday officials met with uk government officials yesterday there's been a further meeting chaired by mr gove that i took part in and von gethin took part in this morning there's a suggestion that there'll be a further meeting between us before the end of this week now if that is true i welcome it because that will give us something that we have been calling for throughout the last six months a regular and reliable pattern of engagement in which we share information understand each other's contexts and lead to better decision making so i'm uh i am hopeful that we have finally arrived at a point where all of that will now happen thank you Nathan thank you and finally today to tom magna at carers world thank you first minister you referred earlier on to a two household bubble i believe in post firebreak circumstances it it goes to a question that our viewers have raised if you have an unpaid carer living with the person they care for forming a household bubble it can obviously be very lonely so the question goes can another person from a different household visit not for reasons of physical caring but for the purposes of helping the mental health of the carer and the person they care for i'm guessing the answer may be yes if it is are the limits on that possible extended mental health bubble if so what are they and for example what happens if the mental health support person lives in england well on your final point i think that during the period that england is in its four week lockdown there will be some additional constraints on the ability of people to travel into wales on your more general point tom right back at the beginning of the first lockdown period we amended our guidance in wales to make it clear that it was within the rules it was a reasonable excuse to leave your home to visit another person where it was their mental health and well-being that was at stake that it wasn't just a matter of doing shopping or looking after someone's physical welfare that people's mental well-being was a reasonable excuse for leaving home and making such a visit and we will want to continue to allow that to happen beyond the ninth of november i make the general point again every visit we make every contact we have brings risks with it and nobody should do that likely but where there is a genuine reason and people are making a visit because there is a mental welfare issue at stake that will be allowable under the rules of wales thank you very much for that clarification and now a wider issue and looking perhaps more to the future um our views have drawn our attention to a senate note stating that 96% of annual care is provided by unpaid unpaid carers in wales our views would like to know when it comes to a vaccine eventually being in that situation will unpaid carers be prioritized when it comes to that well thank you there's a very good question we have a higher percentage of people in wales who provide informal care than other parts of the united kingdom so that sector is enormously important to us we've been drawing up plans inside the Welsh government for how we would distribute vaccine when it becomes available and it will involve priority groups and i'll certainly make sure that in those discussions that the needs of informal and unpaid carers are properly taken into account in that planning so thank you very much for raising that on their behalf this afternoon thank you all very much indeed diolch yn fawr