 Hello, welcome to Toffee TV. We were going to have a chat about what's going on off the pitch. We've had one about a young pitch stuff, but we need to have one about what's going on off the pitch and still reeling, I guess, from a point of deduction and a possible second point of deduction. Maybe even a third one next year, you believe that city fella? No, he's a clan. How can he predict what's happening next year, Stefan? Is the fella who city chased the city at 115 charges for not doing things right? Yep. He's got himself a nice little gift there. There's a handful of people out there who are being perceived by legacy media as experts simply because they get on a list and they keep talking to them, right? Fair play to them. But you know, we have got, there's a couple of big things. I mean, a points deduction day, we, us three have done it to death, so we're not going to be speaking about it but you. I mean, what have you made of the first one and then obviously the second? Stinking. No team should be supplies to forest, you know, lester under investigation, Bernley, Wolves, Chelsea, whoever. There shouldn't be any points deductions and they've said that in the, in the white paper or the independent regulator. Shouldn't be getting points deductions, particularly for the stadium. Yeah. You know, you can't like you suddenly overlap, never seen a stadium, not in the back post. Yeah. But you know, okay, there is a punishment. What that punishment is needs to be worked out with the relevant authorities. Unfortunately, the dealing with an authority were incompetent and obsessed with money and it's only got them to a point now where the game is, if not a sort of, it's not already broken. Then it's certainly a breaking point, particularly with the news this week about them not signing off the AFL. So, and it's the unknown, isn't it with the second point? Obviously the Premier League is struggling for a legal bandwidth because if it was me, I would have just wrapped it up with the appeal. If I'm Everton, and I know we talked about this earlier in terms of what you would have done when that charge hit, I would have gone straight to Cass. And just, I think it would have all been sorted by now. I think it's absolutely, it's just stinking, isn't it? You know, we're culpable. Yes, I'm not saying we haven't done anything wrong course, we have, you know, with creative accountancy and whatever else. And we've been run poorly, which is why we've protested. But to be hit with a points deduction and then the second one looks like incoming where there's no, not written down analogy used on this channel is the speed in one, isn't it? Yeah. And you're really relying on poorest, poorest. It's contagious. You started it to get a point deduction greater than ours, which can only be if they're saying it's not going to be more than nine, then it has to be eight. If it's anything less than eight, I think we're going to kick up a stink, but I think by then it's too late, which is why I said we should have gone to the highest court possible to just get rid of it, particularly with the regulator. They're just creating, you know, having a watching brief, aren't they? See what's going on? All of a sudden, one of the members goes out to a court to challenge them. And I think we've tried to work with them in good faith and that was part of it, wasn't it? Yeah. Once you've done all that and now contract you like this, you know, there's a mediation process dispute resolution, but I think you've gone past that. Once they've gone above board and said, well, we're going to charge you, for me, all better off. I would have gone straight to cast and think this would have been sorted because in the city example it was sorted in five months. I think there's wealth. There's a couple of legal people saying that actually they're not laws. The Premier League thinks not law, so therefore everything forest less than anyone can take them to a court. There's this thing that you can't, it can't go any further, of course it can. It's affecting you as a business, it's out in the public. But everyone must have said we're going to the highest court, not accepting your decision. It's in the appeal, isn't it, that we mentioned it, the high court judgement or whatever it was, forget the word. And when it comes back to review, we have that review period, it's in there. It's referenced, then, like who's saying you can't go. My issue with it is, again, I've said it a lot of times, pointers and nonsense for me. Because you're affecting, this thing over here, you're taking these results away which makes you league, pathetic really, makes you league in non-entity, to COVID season, far as I'm concerned. It's not real. Disasterics is everywhere. It's all a note of nonsense and you're affecting the results of that being played. Everything has to be in black and white. I don't agree with points of directions, but if that's what you think is necessary, again I don't know why any club would vote for it, but anyhow, when the rules are there to stop your club going under, simply there's nothing to do. It says in the thing, it's got nothing to do with sport and a band, there's nothing. And the rules aren't there to balance the sport, they're not there. Because if they were really bothered about the competition and integrity of the competition, then everyone would be allowed to spend the same amount of money. No one would be allowed to run away with it. One team wouldn't be on television more than anyone else, getting the handouts every time they're on. There's that kind of thing. So they don't care about the balance of the sport, but the rules are there to stop you going under and if you've got back in, and people guarantee in it. In Edithon's case, a forest, let's use forest in that case. If they're on it, it goes, I will underwrite anything, keep this club afloat if not come after me. It's got nothing to do with the club and I know John said a lot of times, we'll make them put the money there then, that's almost in. There's the pot of money and if it's needed to be used. So I just find it all a little bit math, but as well as that going on, where are you with the takeover thing and the lent, and I'll bring obviously John and Peddan in a second, but the lent it's taking for this takeover thing to be resolved because... Well, spoke about this theory, didn't we? Again, this is another thing that doesn't seem to have written down anywhere that's only been quoted by the athletic. It should be 12 weeks. And then you two guys ironically put me right over. Guy who's took over at Manulai, they keep forgetting his name. Jim Rackliff. Jim Rackliff. That I thought that was done on a shorter time period than Everton, but it wasn't he when in June or July. June or July. So again... The new castle was 18 months. And this comes down to the legal bandwidth of them. Just either chase them or say, right, you're in. I'm not pro or against 777. I don't know. If you're depending on what cognitive bias you want to reflect in your own judgement. Plenty of stuff on search engines that you can go out to go one way or the other. There's got to be soft water there. There's got to be delisport. Did one about Genoa. Positive one. Positive one. But there's loads of negative ones. You can go and find it yourself. But they're venture capitalists who are here to make a quick book. There's no one waiting in the wings. I'm waiting to win the Euro million so I can pay right to media funding off. So we can have some bandwidth. There's no one there because they're looking to make money, aren't they? But I just want a decision because the club needs structure. Needs governance. It needs a lot of people getting rid of. We've just been jobs for the boys for years. It just needs a complete reset. Moving to the stadium should be that reset. But we need them people in place to make them executive decisions. Even just coming back to the manager situation. If you want him gone now into 11 games then there's no one there to make that decision. He's done it well. He's fronting up a lot of them questions. He's the only one. Because he's the only one, aren't he? So it needs resolving one way or another. Pro or not. You can't have a process that's gone for 24 weeks. It's longer now, isn't it? It is becoming a bit of a nonsense. Do you like to see a thing where you've got to satisfy this process by 12 weeks or 14 weeks? If you can't, you've rejected it for now. You said it doesn't mean you can't come back. The only should be on the people who are talking about football clubs, shouldn't it? The rules should be set out if you can't produce. But it should be transparent as well because we've had this loads of times. I can sit there and say, 777, haven't provided the documentation. John can say, well, I've received it. So we need someone to say, they've given it. They've got rid of it or whatever. They take them home, it's a T-set, she said. So how can you... I think that's reflected in the appeal process as well because it's another appeal board. Who knows? So you as Ped 777 could have sent it to John. But someone's ranged up me and said, no, I haven't received anything. Because of that stress on the legal ban, it just seems that they're not... And it's elongating the process, it doesn't need to be. John, we are where we are right now. I just want them to make a decision. If 777 haven't satisfied them, send them away to show off your pop. You're not taking over the football club. Do you think there should be something in black and white that says... If you were selling some... I know Premier League aren't selling anything. Say you were selling a house for argument. And I'm trying to buy it. You say to me, I want to complete this in three months because I've got me eye on doing something else. And I keep not providing you with the stuff. Surely you would say after a period of time, like, go away. And if this is still up for sale, you're entitled to put a different offer in at a different time when you've got the stuff. Because like Ped said, I had no idea whether... They're saying they give the Premier League everything. We had Richard Masters saying they were still waiting for something. Then they had a head-to-head meeting, a face-to-face meeting where we thought we were going to hear anyway. If this entity hasn't provided everything or doesn't seem good enough, why hasn't it just been, like, kyboshed? Or if they are good enough, why haven't they been giving the green? Like, what's going on because we're suffering as a football club? I don't know. OK, there you go. You say you always want short hands. Well, just a little bit longer than that one. In all seriousness, there's always two things, right? I like people who use the phrase cognitive bias because I think to myself, I don't see no Andy McGregor, right? Because he's the ultimate source of that phrase, right? The PIF. I find it fascinating personally, right? Ped said, you know, I might say that 777 haven't provided all that. I didn't say it like that. That's how you talk. You did, right. I might say that they haven't provided all the information. John might say, yes, they have. I'm not bloody clue whether they have or they haven't. You always say ped don't listen. The point is, and this is the question, right? Is an answer or a version of an answer, right? You don't know, I don't know. You call it cognitive bias, which is, if you choose to listen to the people to the left of me, it's all 777's fault. If you choose to listen to the people to the right of me, it's all the Premier League's fault, right? And you distill it down to a very simple question, right? Some people are quite fond of saying, well, how could Masherry could stop this tomorrow? So could the Premier League, right? So we all end up second guessing going, hang on a minute, whatever Tony is like, we'll count down whatever, right? We go, you have to prove to the Premier League that you're a soundbody of mine and all that rubbish, but that you've got the funds to buy the shares of Fahad Masherry. This is you. That you've got the funds or the backing, whatever you want to call it, to run this business for three years, right? And obviously your individuals themselves can't be murderers and they can't be people who've committed for all that stuff, right? Fit and proper owner part of it, right? Once you've done that, we'll let you buy this football club. But the regulator, in this case the Premier League, and at the end of 12 weeks, when we want to make the decision 12 weeks later, and you're right, there's no time limit on it, part of the Premier League's problem is things get done when they get done. They never do today. They should have done yesterday. They'd rather do it tomorrow, right? So the Premier League has just said publicly they haven't provided the information therefore they've been disbarred or stopped the process. They can come back when they've got the goddamn information. I think they should have done that. They could have done that at any time, right? The thing is, why is it all playing out in public anyway? You know my view, and I was told about it on the desk over there, in other industries you would have a pre-qualification process where you personally could rock up to the Premier League and say, right, what do I need to do to prove I'm a fit and proper owner of a football club? I'm thinking about it. I haven't picked one yet, and I don't know which one I can afford, but can I pass your test? So at least when I go and speak to Farhad Mishiri or I go and speak to the glazes I can say, I've already passed the fit and proper owners test. Oh yeah, well these other guys are interested. Yeah, but they haven't passed the fit and proper owners test in my app. But that's all bog standard in other industries. I think the root of all evil here is that the Premier League's processes are crap across the piece. We've seen it played out with PSR. They're going to change it, right? They changed it a matter of months ago to do a fast track process to get stuff done in this season, right? And now they're going to change it again. Richard Masters said it was select committee. No, no, no, no, the PSR is going to stay there for at least a year, maybe two. Now we hear Sky, whether briefed or not, saying it could be changed as soon as the summer. They're going with knock-up, but now it's getting changed in the summer. Have the Premier League said that? Yeah, Premier League have said it. Well, they're fools, complete and utter fools, because you don't replace a dysfunctional process that doesn't work, hasn't passed stress testing and all that sort of stuff in other words, when you try and use it, it doesn't work, and then rush through a new answer, right? So devil's always in the detail, right? If the Premier League says we're going to change this before the start of next season, right? Then right now, as we speak, lawyers from Everton, lawyers from Nottingham Forest and lawyers from the Premier League must be talking to each other because at least one of those clubs should say, we are going to take you to an independent court outside of your jurisdiction and we're going to sue your ass because it looks to me like you've known for a while that this process was not fitting proper. Forget the owner's test, your own processes are not fitting proper and you've tried to make them work. You've already made legal mistakes, as the appeal board said, and the appeal board is trying to operate within the rules but laid down a foundation to say, come on guys, get a grip, right? Now the thing is, and this is the fun, right? They haven't changed in the last 48 hours of the Premier League and said that they know exactly what the new rules are going to look like. People are assuming that because it's based on the squad ratio thing that UEFA have had for a while now, while in Premier League terms, right? Because that doesn't do points deductions per se, it's all financial penalties that people are going, oh, because it's based on a squad ratio, there won't be points deductions? Well, no, the bit based on the squad ratio is, it's not 105 million, it's a 70% turnover. That's the same as squad ratio. Now what it clearly does, the new rule, if they're basing it like UEFA, is say it's actually about constraints of excessive spending on footballers, not excessive spending full stop, right? Just on footballers, so hence it's a luxury tax if you like that phrase or it's a salary cap if you choose to do it that way. And they're saying the money you spend on players, be it wages, agents fees, and obviously the transfer fees themselves, you are constrained by your turnover on how much you can spend. Which means the haps, as per my MTAG article, stay the haps. The have nots like us, ever in small turnover will end up with less spend on players and so on and so forth, right? You wait for doing a transition process, right? So over two or three seasons, they're going to get to where they want to get, we don't know what the Premier League are going to do, we just know they're under severe pressure, that PSR doesn't work, so they're saying something better is coming along. What those other 18 clubs I think at their board meeting are spooked by, they're not spooked by the 105, because they've all come within that, they're spooked by the sanctions, which are big points deductions. So unless they announce anytime soon, by the way, and they'd be foolish to do this, wouldn't they, if you think of Nottingham Forest and Everton, by the way, we're not going to have points deductions anymore, then Everton and Forest don't get points deductions now, because it's not fair if they do. And if they don't get points now, what the heck are they going to do with the 0.7 I've already had? You cannot not give Forest points deductions because you know it's wrong when you've already given them to Everton. Probably after just being there in the summer. If 0.7 or any other entity, by Everton, if 0.7 are giving the green, then you'll have the big spam. Touch on that a minute, because one thing that seems to be overlooked is they've already got two approvals, haven't they? Which was a Christmas. Now, what's dramatically different in the FA1 and the Premier League one, is that they're an affiliate of the FA, as such. It is the Football Association Premier League, exactly. They've got the FCA one, which is the big one. Surely that's proven with points. By the way, predominantly about the women's teams, that's what it's doing. I just want to get for this, because we're going to finish in a minute. If they're giving the green light, or if it's another group, for you, what should be like the first steps? They take to improve where we are, because we seemingly have been without a plan for a long time, without real. With a plan, I mean, we don't seem to have followed any path. Certainly since Farad Mishiri took over. So, for you, what do we need? Structure and governance. They're the first two things. We need people in the right positions, not Colin trying to do seven jobs, not Richard Kenyon trying to do 12 jobs or whatever. Get rid of him, definitely. If we need to improve our commercial performance, then get someone who's got a reputable distinction in the industry. Track record. We're going out and chasing, because it's going to come down to revenue. So, we need better commercial performance. You can't be having poker pies and people in from town coming in to just sponsor you for your quid. We've got the bargain basements, although it's a lot of money, in terms of sponsors. We need to boost that, and the stadium will help. But you need, as well, destruction in terms of the plan. Okay, Kevin fell well, you're going to have this budget. Get on with it. Your job. If you fail, then you fall on your sword. That's how it should be. Then everyone's judged by their department. We don't put out media. Why have we got so many media people? The commercial part, I keep touching on it, but it's terrible. I couldn't get a home shit on the first day of the season. Couldn't get a kit for me, little girl. It's a joke. And then just having them and communicate we've done well in the last couple of months. Better communication from the fell well and how dice that have fronted up a lot of press conferences. But it's not really about that, he shouldn't be fronting up off the field issue. He's just managing coach. We need the figureheads. Not people just at a loose end or doing the stadium tours that were then promoted. Can't have jobs for the boys and that's what it being. That's what held us back for years. I know ticket prices have gone up again. But it's got a fall in line with where the club wants to go on it. Football is massively too expensive as it is. It's going to go up and that's just what it is. It's just part for the course, isn't it? But just to assemble into a plan will be nice. For you, whoever it is you take over. What's the first step that you want to see? We keep saying it's like we're stuck in one season. That's lasted three years so far. I've been a road down. Now like days ago I'd get rid of the culture that's within the club. You have to get rid of people sadly. It's just life, isn't it? There's a culture within this club that as a mentality that I can't get behind. We've seen it recently. That means you have to probably and John would be better at this install somebody to put that culture into the club. He's not just a figurehead he's actually somebody who you know. Do you want to see that straight away? I've heard that for quite a few years and I know maybe financers have hampered this but getting a CEO is actually a really good CEO. Not like somebody who gets it by default because they work with charity. Literally that is the culture of Everton Football Club. We have to move away from that and got to go and get the best of the best of whoever. I mean obviously it's all to do with affordability and creating a new culture of are we just watching Liverpool chasing what they used to have to come in and run the football operations. He's going to be the CEO of football. To me it sells you everything about the two different clubs. They're trying to get multi club. Exactly, but they've gone that back and they haven't took no for an answer. When they were struggling they went and got Peter Moore who was the best fella not only because he was red but they believed and he hadn't worked in football as in football club and knew all the partnerships knew all all of them and got everyone and said we're going to do this and do that and you knew all the people in the room buying mewn ago to people from Adidas because they know all they go and get the best people who mightn't be to do with the actual 100 football club but they've got all the connections and they've done big deals John Blaine is the obvious answer isn't he but you know what I mean I've tapped into the NFL and now there's been it was NFL London now they've got Jamie and it doesn't have to be a football person so on this similar to what we've said about the players you want someone you can have John Roberts or Robert Robertes from Ren for a million or you can have Neil Mopey because he's played in the Premier League he's comparable isn't he because he's probably well better he's well better but he's got no Premier League well what does that mean in terms of life doesn't mean anything to me I remember Tops Frank being asked about Premier League experience and he was like you can play in the Premier League John I'll leave the last way to you then whoever's rubber stamped whether it's 777 whether it's Billy Fred and John we've got money from somewhere I look like they're getting they're acting together a little bit and changing that and like Peds said how would you change the culture if it was dead easy then with the commitments you would have thought it would have happened already I think the culture as Peds says is completely wrong and that's a product of many many years and it's quite clear that there will be people in the organisation who are not capable of changing so ends the sound bite of the people but I think part of the challenge is that as a football club they've been stuck in this doldrum for so long you actually I think it's a bit excessive to say burn it down but it's a good graphic way of describing what needs to be done we all know what the problems are you need better commercial income you need more matchday income you need that you need the other but saying what's needed and doing it is what the football club fundamentally needs in my mind is it needs the ability to be decisive in decision making and it needs to be able to effectively communicate with its key stakeholders one which for far too long it's frankly insulted with its relationship which is the fan base and I think that's started to get fixed over the last couple of years communications is still in my view piss poor but above the parapet every three months might be better than not doing it at all but a bit like the footballing side lowering our expectations of what best practice is isn't the answer and Conte said it didn't he he said it in Italy or whatever it might have been really when they're doing the media after it it's the sporting director isn't it all that right so don't lower expectation and then make something which is barely average can I pause you there if you haven't got an opportunity then whoever it is to come in to set a new where you're doing stuff then just because eight other clubs don't do it like this could we go in and go like you said if Peds the sporting director Peds speaks to the media once a week or once a month whatever it may be could we should we be doing that and taking it on look we haven't got billions to spend but look how good we do this there are huge opportunities I think me and Peds have talked about that in the past for football clubs Premier League football clubs to be the first to do stuff which is actually box standard in older industries and therefore not quite letting the media crawl all over your training ground all the time but get far closer than anyone could imagine and the culture you get into change the culture what kind of culture do you want have a challenger culture that feels that their views are going to be listened to have a very objective performance based culture which frankly I often say about my past day jobs back in the day 20 years ago when I was in the pomp doing what I did for a living I earned lots of money or I got the sack one or the other and I was cool with that because guess what I kept earning lots of money and I just think there isn't anybody at the football club right now capable of reshaping organisation from what it is to what it needs to be nobody nobody at all so whomever it is say it's a 777 just because they're the guys on the step at the moment I don't think they have the slightest idea what they're walking into but if they can make an announcement on day one and this is the chief exec and day one this is the chief engagement officer I like that phrase but the guy who's going to do all that comp stuff and clearly a very strong and experienced finance director and none of those perhaps with the acceptance of the chief engagement officer needs any prior footballing experience in my view they just know how to run businesses they know how to turn businesses around they know how to stimulate changes in behaviour and cultures and they actually are proper leaders that people are prepared to follow they do that first 30 days will do then I think we would all lift we would all lift up we'd all be more prepared to buy stuff from the club we'd all be prepared to suffer increased ticket prices because that's inevitable because the people who are long since have built a too small stadium and so on but the culture has to be we are everton we're going up if you don't believe that the doors over there and lots of people will self select there's going to be a huge shock for lots of people at the football club that if you like they're going to have to work for a living but a positive shock probably for almost the same number of things Alla you, Lluia I can now use all my skills use all my experience and see it making a difference so the only winners and losers in the culture change thing are the people who are not prepared to change everyone else will have a ball go on one of the things you just like you'll be close to this to me just business basics was the last time we had an AGM I can't even remember when the best thing that's come out of the club communication wise has been Julia's series and it's brilliant I genuinely build a new building a Finch farm a trusted media building every single day there's a press conference with a different person absolutely right because you chain out stories every day you chain out that are positive or you speak to Leighton Baines every day or you speak to someone else every day next minute all every creator every influencer every journalist is satisfied there's enough content out there get rid of all the noise that gets fills in all the space but you can't do any photo shops but when Roberto was here I'm all used with him and all the fan group and Alan Myers was there and now we've got plenty of people make use of all of it make use of all those people who's presenting the pregame for everything you get Julia and you get all those people and every day you get an invite every day one o'clock you can come down to Leighton Baines tomorrow which is the captain of the women's team the next day it's going to be Seamus Coleman the next day it's the manager and every single day it's half an hour with somebody the content would go through the roof and evidence name and brand will be everywhere and the key there is the brands that we have deals with they're all on screen more often they're all getting more bang for the buck the price goes up Seamus Coleman had actually physically came out in front of people and gone this is my brand new shirt I'm going to go on to show you Seamus that's your very own shirt oh my god flood of tears this is on sale right now all that stuff this is all the stuff that we should be doing just because nobody else is doing it doesn't mean it's wrong but the sponsors could have each day as well so you could go tomorrow is James Vaughan because he's in and it's brought to you by Christopher Vaughan so we go in and written people and whatever and it's all like we were at the Christopher Vaughan sponsored and the sponsors are getting there now Imagine a world where our football club perceptions can be changed a lot faster than truth in reality right went from being we talk ourselves down so we talk ourselves up let's have toffee fest every year you pick a period of time be it in the bloody what to call this week the MNS arena whatever and you end up with this city flooded with 25, 30,000 Evertonians spending money like it's Billy O and everyone immediately goes nah that's never going to happen what happens if we don't sell all the tickets Pedsview would be give me the stadium I'll fill it for a legends game rather than worrying about whether there's going to be empty seats we don't look good on telly you've got to have a positive outcome Jane Form is a perfect example got a new job this week what's your job and what are you going to do how did you get a 2D statement with a picture no that would just give you the story one online thing pay for how's that fair on the rest of us how's that fair on everybody else how's that fair on somebody who works for the echo you know who will get it I'm not saying but you know who will get it I'm just saying how's that fair on the fellow who works for the echo but imagine because you're right because we're on a roll now aren't we if you want tickets for the Bournemouth game you have to have 67 credits that's like your evidence that you've been following Everton for at least 3 years home and away and no one can argue therefore you should get the ticket if you're doing what he says which is you have an effectively media event every single day, morning and afternoon in the media centre at Finch Farm bla bla bla you suddenly get to the end of a period and you go times have been six times the echo have been 187 times softy cv have been 497 times who's actually committed to this football club who always turns up now make it like the west wing we'll just stay there we've seen it a couple of weeks ago with the thing at Everton too didn't we and they changed the time on the day his own goals and there's no we've talked about 777 but there's no shortage of companies who want to throw money at the Premier League for documentaries and specials and even on YouTube I watch a lot of American stuff and it's all paid promotion but you get on there and it's free in association with whatever so there's lots of relaying you play in the Premier League you've managed in the Premier League you normally have to pay for advertising but if you do an Amazon documentary they pay you to advertise your company to everyone in the world take all of them ideas let us know what you think we've got loads more whoever takes over great potential what we'll convince you that things are trying to move in the right direction if you think in the comment section below subscribe if you haven't see you later