 Elizabeth Zapampe with DAV, and I'm joined today by a very special guest. Retired Army Lieutenant Colonel Hal Fritz is a DAV life member and recipient of the Medal of Honor for his actions in Vietnam on January 11th, 1969. His 27-year military career also included peacetime service in the United States, Germany, and Korea. After retiring in June 1993, Colonel Fritz dedicated his career to his fellow veterans, serving as a counselor for the Illinois Veterans Leadership Program as Deputy Director of Programs and Services for the Illinois Department of Veterans Affairs and with the Federal Department of Veterans Affairs at the Peoria VA Outpatient Clinic. Colonel Fritz, thank you for your service and thank you so much for joining us today. Well, thank you for having me. I think it's important to be here. And that's why I said no hesitation, full speed ahead. Great, we'd love to hear it. So with Medal of Honor Day being tomorrow, Saturday, March 25th, I want to start by asking you about the day that you earned yours. Can you tell us a bit about the events of that day? Well, what happened is, we'll start in Charlotte and at Charlotte, that's where we'll get involved with the Citizens Honors Program where we present awards to citizens that have done something very valorous or noteworthy and upon the completion of that program, then they'll fly to Washington, DC where they'll participate in the laying of the wreath at the tomb of the unknown soldiers and then they'll come back and I'll get together with the Citizens Honors people and have a dinner and then they'll be the end of the day. And can you talk to us about January 11th, 1969 and what happened that day? That was a day full of challenges. On that particular day, I was the executive officer of Alba Troop, first squadron of the Living's Army Cavalry Troop, a Cavalry Regiment, but the platoon and the mission that we had, we were off of Highway 13, which ran between Leike and Kwon Loi. And Highway 13 was the main supply route up from Saigon through Leike to Kwon Loi in terms of supplies that were required by the troops that included fuel for the vehicles, gasoline fuel for the helicopters. It also included the beans and the bullets for the troops to clothing. So that was their main supply route. That was normally a convoy of about, maybe a hundred trucks, sometimes a hundred trucks that would go up their weekly basis with those supplies to come back with any returns. And our mission was alongside Highway 13, about halfway up was to provide escort to the truck convoy at Leike with one of my platoons. Said another platoon north to sweep the road, which was not asphalt, but it was a gravel dirt road about 20, about 21 meters wide, sweep up to Kwon Loi, make sure there was no ambush there. That refuel come back down Highway 13 and logger or get in a position off of Highway 13 as a reactionary force in case the platoon that was with the convoy or the convoy and platoon were ambushed on their way on its main supply route. So that's what was occurring. I normally would have the platoon leader take the platoon, but he had been evacuated due to wounds. And we had a new troop commander command at West. So I told Art, I said, Captain, I was the first lieutenant, I'll take that platoon north because I know the route and it should be better at all that we can get the resupply route run safely. And so I jumped on board and took the platoon north and we didn't run into any problems. Then we got to Kwon Loi refueled. And after we passed an area, the North Vietnamese company reinforced company moved in but the intent from Cambodia with the intent to ambush the truck convoy. But we didn't know that because we passed the route and they moved in very quickly. So then as we refueled and started back down, I was trying to select a place to go off the road to get into position as reserve force or reactionary force. And the spot I wanted to go to was one where occasionally the vehicles going up and down that road would get a sniper shot from somebody with a rifle. And I figured it was probably just the VC that we'd got an AK-47 for Christmas and was trying to zero it in. And maybe we could capture that little fellow and get some intel from him at the same time. So as we slowed down in that area that happened to be the kill zone, the primary killing zone set up by the North Vietnamese for this ambush. So when we started slowing down, I would have pulled off the road but in doing so that would have compromised their position. They would have realized that we realized they were there. So they opened fire and initiated the ambush against the vehicles. I had a seven vehicles with 28 people ahead with me. And they were in a very effective crossfire because on one side of the road, they were firing directly across through our vehicles. On the other side of the road, they were in a ditch so they were firing up at us. So they weren't effectively engaging their own forces but they were catching us on a very effective crossfire. And as they did that, they had two leadership vehicles which are designated with dual antennas and mine and platoon sergeants. So we had to record with rifle fire and RPG fire and machine gun fires. And so initially when my vehicle got hit, both my gunners got killed but I was throwing off the vehicle. I thought we hit a mine. We hit a mine, throwing off the vehicle and then came back to the top of the vehicle. I realized when I saw the sides and the vehicles heavily engaged, that we were in an ambush situation rather than in a situation. And then I got back in the vehicle and both my gunners were killed. And I went to reach the radio. The part chopper kept the microphone just pulled off my hand. So the radio, and so that was a matter of trying to get the troops together. So we had vehicles that were on fire to organize a defensive perimeter on the road. Of course, we were around the road so we didn't have much to work with. So that's what I worked with, is trying to get everybody together and get the people to take care of. And that was just didn't give us a lot of maneuver space. And we had a lot of heavy fire coming in from both sides of the road, almost from both sides of the road that we kind of overrun our position. And we were basically fighting off our vehicles because the vehicles were destroyed later. They were on fire or we couldn't, or we couldn't go over the weather and in fact, fire at the enemy who was right outside the road. We had one vehicle, a look at it, it was an experimental vehicle with us. And that particular vehicle was reducing, it was a four meter gun, but again, it couldn't get it close enough to the ground. So I was spraying the air. Very pretty good. It was in terms of causing some of that. The NBA wondered whether or not they should be there. So my concern was getting the word to the platoon and the converse proceed because if they proceeded a highway 13, they would run right into the ambush in the middle of it. And there would be no way they could escape and turn around. So they would be, they would be on these to Sam Boy site. So we were trying to get a radio call out to them. The radio's were patched up and we did get one call out to them, which stopped them. But then I couldn't because I couldn't get calling for artillery fire or I couldn't get, I couldn't get aircraft to cover us with radio contact. So what we had was hand and arm signals. But what I did there, the tank platoon that we had with us, you know, a troop at our defensive military had monitored to call it, we were ambushed and they should stop the convoy. Russell left their five tanks to run a lot of the road to come to our rescue and get, meanwhile we were kind of fighting hand to hand and trying to fight off the people what we're trying to get into the, we were on the road so we didn't have a perimeter. And that was kind of a challenging situation. A lot of the 28 men most were wounded, two were killed, and someone asked that. So we didn't have the freedom of maneuver that you normally would have in a surgical mounted. And as the tanks came up, it stopped about a hundred dollars from us to ascertain what was going on. Because keep in mind we had no radio contact. We were trying to figure out where we were in relation to the bad guys and the good guys, even though we had the NVA amongst us that we were fighting. And we were all covered with this red dust. So from somebody that was looking at us from a distance, it was hard to tell the good guys and the one in the field that was firing a machine gun off a vehicle and the Vulcan was going on, but the rest of it. So my only choice was to go down to that lead tank and the tank was to run down the road to it. So that's what I started doing. I went to my sergeant. That's the only way I can get it. So I proceeded to skin you down on that road as quick as my little leg was curing but I was holding it down from the back of the ambush site. And as I got closer to the tank that there was an RPG team rocket from the field for the NVA team that had wooden anti-tank rockets. And so as I looked up, the tank turned its main gun down to business end with a 90 millimeter cannon on this tank when it let loose the round. That's me and got the RPG team but it also blew me into the bushes. So I came off my wing and I got to the lead vehicle and pointed out where we were back into action. So this began and then we got the tanks involved. This began to turn and we were able to relocate the tanks to a place where they were defensive. And we were able to take over the situation even though we were in pretty bad shape. That's how it ended up. I mean, we just got the reinforcements in and we get another reinforcements in the forest. And we were able to cause the enemy to draw back. When they came out, they lost about 160 people. They pulled back into Cambodia. So their attempt to ambush Convoy was designed to be a morale factor for the NVA unit to say they've got a truck Convoy, kill all the Americans, steal what they could and move back to Cambodia because they didn't expect us to survive that initial 30 seconds when you look at an ambush where the first 30 seconds or half a minute is gonna make a difference between success or fail and defeat. And we were able to maintain. So that's, and then we got the troops evacuated and I was one of the last ones once you get evacuated and collected. Yeah. And how, sorry, there's a little bit of a delay. So apologies if there's a long pause or if I talk over you. You know, that day obviously lives in your memory and still very vivid. I know that you were seriously wounded during that initial ambush. Can you tell us about the injuries that you sustained and how those affected you throughout your life? We got evacuated, I got hit in the chest and I got in the back of the head. I don't think they missed many parts of me. There was a lot of bleeding. So a lot of like, I finally just got a collapse due to blood loss. So that's how I ended up getting evacuated. But I managed to wait for the evacuated before they put me on that job. Yeah. What kept you going through, I mean, was this, how long did this ambush ultimately last? And what kept you motivated in going through all that, especially considering that you were injured yourself? Well, the contact or initiation of the ambush was, excuse me, about 10 30. And I don't feel at least that it was pretty close to noon. And so it was, but at the same time, it was pretty intense. And looking at that, I said, you know, just got to keep going. I mean, you can't stop. There were two new people that were dependent upon that spot to worry about myself at that point in time. So you're an adrenaline kick, adrenaline kicks in. It kind of takes the rest of your systems that it puts them in a tight knot. You're still able to maintain the presence of iron and strength to continue on. I couldn't leave my people there. I couldn't let them be killed by the NBA. So we had a truck convoy coming up. We couldn't get that ambush. So there was a lot going on that was instantaneous that caused me to continue. Yeah. And so I understand you were still in the Army when you received the Medal of Honor from President Nixon. What did that recognition mean to you? What did it do for me? Yeah, what did it mean to you to get that kind of recognition for your service and for that day? Well, it's just, you know, I was at first of all when I found out that they called me and they said he had been proved for the Medal of Honor a brave troops out there that that day that did a tremendous job in terms of valor and sacrifice. I lost two of my gunners. I had one fellow that was paying that pretty badly. I found out that you're going to be, you know, recognized you're paying for the Medal of Honor. That's, it's kind of a hard thing. Yeah. So you went on to serve for 27 years. What kept you in that long? I came back and after that battle I was in several other battles. I thought of me to be able to pass on out of the lessons and learn both the officers, the NCOs and the folks that would be committed to combat. To give them something in terms of my experiences and what I did have to be able to be more effective on the battlefield than survive on the battlefield. I stayed in and I went on to be an instructor at the Infantry School in Fort Knox, Kentucky. I was an instructor in Fort Knox, Kentucky. And so I felt that I owed America, owed that to America sons and daughters to pass on a kind of a lesson and hope that it would help them in their deployments because it's a terrible animal. It's chaos. It's a wall of death and you'll lose friends. You've got to be able to keep a clear head because you're trying to save the lives of your buddies. You're trying to be effective on the battles. You're trying to defeat the enemy. Those are the things that go with your mind. So that's the reason I stayed out for 27 years. Can you talk a little bit about how and why you became a member of DAV? How I did or why? Yeah, you. Me? Well, I was notified by the DAV that I did because I felt that the disabled American veteran organization out there in the military had performed an anti-ambulance test. They were looking out for veterans and trying to extend the helping hand for veterans. But the disabled American veteran station seems to take the extra steps to help the veterans. To notify the veterans that they are there to help. The extra steps necessary to apply that have helped the veterans that are going through some of this trauma of combat and it's trauma of PTSD, it's trauma of suicide. So the DAV is of the organization in my opinion that in fact is to help the young men and women that have served and are serving. It gives them hope that when they get out of the service there's going to be an organization that will sacrifice cares about their dedication and will stand there with a helping hand on their shoulder to pat them on the back and to help them find whatever they need. Well, thank you, Helen. And certainly members like you or what make DAV great and make DAVs work possible. You mentioned the trauma of combat. Can you share a little bit about how that combat impacted you and your mental health and how you overcame those challenges? Well, just when you face situations that are life and death, you see friends that die because of that. It has a detrimental effect on you. You just got to look at, you know, and go to fight those demons. What are you going to do so you don't miss or you can never climb on them? And so that's the key. And if you're going to help you, whether it's, you know, right now we're going through a terrible time with the great. We're going through a terrible time with people dealing with trauma and PTSD so we can't stop our efforts to look at ways of our sufferings through that. In my case, I finally took the step that's just last year. Well, I'm going to go and talk to mental health. I just, you know, I always, because to assist, if you're in a leadership position and you don't want to be on the show, what you consider to be a leader, you said, well, you know, I've got some problems with trauma. Is that a weakness? I didn't want that to show. I felt it would have affected my leadership. I felt it would have affected my influence. So I finally said, you know, so I went and talked to the mental health people and said, you know, here's the thoughts that I lost some people and friends and, you know, I saw a lot of trauma and combat and I'm dealing with it, okay, all right. I'm going the right direction. I'm able to walk the walk and talk to talk about the jurors that I'm on the project that I work like that. So I talked to the mental health professionals and finally I said, you know, I've reached the pinnacle where I think I'm hoping I can get out here and I think I can help people and I think I'm ready to go. So they said, you know, what it does, it makes it, and I had the resources available but some of the people know where to go. It's a minefield. They come back and it's confused. It causes a divorce of use. It causes addiction and a lot of that we can help diffuse that and cut that amount down. And that's where I think DEAV stepped out and said, hey, we know what you guys and gals go through and we want to be able to help and some of the things that recreational opportunities that make a person feel that and I've been down to several of those organizations that hold hog or are designed to help disabled veterans and you see veterans that come in and their legs and when they leave when they leave after the event and they talk to the same thing, they feel much better about themselves. They feel much better about being able to do what they wanted to do. They could do it before they lost their site or they lost their button. Now we're able to do it because they feel they feel that there's a way to do it. And it's just when you see that once and they were taking a group picture to say if a one veteran had lost both his legs and was in a wheelchair but it was kind of lost a little gravel path to the worst standing by the helicopter and he said disabled veterans standing or some that were missing arms and some that had a site problem and some that had no problem and with that he jumped he pulled himself out of that wheelchair and he rode to rain about 25 feet and joined the group. And it felt that there was camaraderie there was brotherhood there was others that had the same problem and there's a way that if you work together if you fight as a team and this recreational opportunity that did part of that so I've been to two of those fantastic so I think the recreational approach is perhaps an answer whether it be with Ames or whether it be hogs hunting for helicopters or shooting bulls in arrows or wheelchairs just getting out there and making an individual feel that even though they as one of the individuals model is it's not the disability it's the yeah and to that point of recreation and kind of the healing power of recreation and camaraderie we have our national disabled veterans when our sports clinic coming up in this next week and there are a lot of people who can attest to that and again to your point I think that camaraderie can be very healing so thank you for sharing that can you tell me a little bit about what you're doing in Wisconsin and why you're there Mike Berger he said we'd like you to come here we'd like you to be in this camp and I was due to go because we have a lot of recipients to watch in DC for a lot of day to lay the reason that the two to honor some of the veterans there and I thought about that but to me we have 25 as recipients we're our rivets as message out to everyone that we see that it's important to support those in the military it's important for us to be seen that we're just ordinary people we're not some super humans that landed on this bank saucer and we're just ordinary people like a couple of ordinary families and we have to make the decision to make that decision and so that's why we're here so what Mike asked me I call him he's an Afghanistanian veteran that law and recipient of harmony throwing a grenade back at the enemy and I said Leroy I've been here I've done that and I think there's a greater need and a greater cause for Wisconsin there's a program called Cabin Fever 3 DAV because we need to get out we need to get out where the grass roots people are this is America and we got to go we go to the vets where you wear a tuxedo black tie and we see people with fancy gowns but I think it's more important to get out where the blue collar people are where the real people are and say hey we appreciate some prisoners today at the jail and I said these are probably veterans they overstepped the line they made a mistake that they're here now you can't fix that but look at the pride of being a veteran so I will continue to to do that reign the focus out of communities that are involved in helping veterans that really are patriotic in care and they're doing it not for personal money but for the personal satisfaction of knowing that there's 40 veterans that protect the country and that's why it's so important to be at these events I will continue to do that but I'm still able to walk and talk I say so that's what I'm going to do that's what I'm going to continue to do with my wife you did that you've done that since you got back from Vietnam you've done that when you got to continue that until they probably bury you and I said no that's not going to bury me cremation that'll be good I understand too that you speak to a lot of younger veterans I know you were at the University of Wisconsin today speaking tickets there what kind of message do you try to get across specifically to that younger generation of service members and veterans well we had to be Vietnam war situations with the exception of a popular war being your face you're going to face a situation where they're going to be facing somebody and they've got to be ready to face that you can try diplomacy and hopefully that works but if diplomacy doesn't work and if that doesn't work you've got to be a force ready to go to war and win and that's the Maro TC group this morning and that was a message you're going to be in the leadership of people you're going to have the lives of America's sons because they're going to be in your command and they're going to look to you and you're going to have experience and combat but they're going to look at you because you were the bar or you were the stripes what are we doing now they're looking for you they're looking for your advice they're looking for that's going to happen what's going to happen with the new leadership they're going to face the same leadership challenges in Vietnam I mean it's just the same type of situation, combat situation and something that we cannot deny because it's going to happen yeah well how thank you again for your service to this country for being here today and for your continued service to your fellow veterans we certainly believe here that sharing your story can help and empower others and it sounds like you are very aware of that tool and using it well so thank you so much we're honored as DAV we're honored to have you in our ranks thank you all for tuning in you can learn more about the excellent work DAV and our members do thank you again