 The recording is starting now. It says recording on my end. Yes, I just don't see the status. So, hi everyone. Welcome to the Jenkins governance meeting today is April 7th. As usual, we have a few topics in our agenda, including this guy's recent news and also have some topics here. And so, let's just get started. So the first thing we have in the list is the today's LCS release. To the 277.2 mark was the leader for this release. So Mark, would you like to summarize it? Sure. So it's a security release that resolves to open to open issues in security related to let's see valid data validation. Also the security advisory had two plugins in it. And not a lot other than that, a few additional fixes related to things that had regressed in to 277.1. We'll also be having a live stream tomorrow where I'll be talking with Darren Pope about it more. Thank you. So you're basically just a few bug fixes and some of them will. Yeah, not that many things. We should be back for that. And we have a few few proposed back ports for the next release that will be discussed. We'll be looking for a different release leader next time so that we rotate that assignment. Oh, and I haven't fixed the, I haven't fixed the that those tags or like thank you for reminding me I need to put that in the checklist. Yeah, I was just surprised. Right. And that was my mistake. I should have fixed those. Yeah. So, we have some reporting things on the table. I think I jumped at the moment. Okay. And I guess that's it. So in two weeks we will be selecting the new LCS baseline. So at the next governance thinking what actually will happen is in front of us in the mailing list. But I guess they will be interested in discussion. Okay. So the next one she could South Africa. Mark. Yeah, so she called Africa is a group organized in Africa to encourage women in Africa to participate in technology. And they have an ongoing event the month of April called the contributon. We've got five women from Africa who are being mentored by five different Jenkins developers. And they're doing work on improving the examples and documentation related to pipeline in plugins. I saw some in the docs, some questions asked in the docs channel this week too so. Right. And we're very grateful that they're, they're making progress asking good questions we've already seen the first pull request. We're also using a slack channel now provided by CDF and the communication seem to be moving quite rapidly. So it looks good. We will be back. We will meet. They asked for it. We were trying to just help them to give them what they asked for. Okay. Okay. So we did a, we'll do another mentoring session on Friday and then again one on Monday. Thanks a lot for running this program because it's great that we participate and it's also great that we already have a few pull requests related to pipeline documentation improvements. So looking forward to what we will get by the end of the summit. Sorry, but the contributon. Anything else. That's it for me. Quick, quick update. Yeah, we have a student application freeze open we've already got a number of proposal drafts around 10 or so. The deadline for applications is the next week. So hopefully we'll get more proposals and then the usual selection process will start. We will participate as a part of the contingency of the foundation me and Kara, our audience there, and it will be our responsibility to ensure that we apply for a right number of project slots and to also run Jenkins related proposals. So hopefully they will be also ranking up for Jenkins their proposals to versus other project proposals. It's a turning point up for us, but I hope that we won't experience any issues. So far in previous years, we were able to secure as many slots as we asked for more less. So hopefully we will get a lot of slots, not just the two slots which new organizations usually get. I think we should. I know we've been doing it, but we should blast out social media again for do you sock, because we have a communication issue where no one knows where to find information, especially attracting new contributors is better to over expose them to information than worry about just mailiness or just get a channel or just something. Yeah. So how it happens. We definitely expect all students to do some communications as a part of community bonding and the first coding phase so introducing their projects. Also during the community bonding expect all project teams to establish communication channels to figure out all the permissions of the infrastructure requirements. Today we had a classic question about the getting access to public clouds. So, yeah, all of that will be solved in May. It meant more sending out like a LinkedIn post reminding people that we are have openings for do you saw not so much as you saw students themselves. Yeah, makes sense. So, over past years we used to send this notices quite regularly. This year it's again kind of ventilation. Yeah, the be doing that. The, I mean, not quite related but the, I think we were all surprised how, how useful or how, how much feedback we got back when we posted about the events officer. I don't know if anything necessarily came about it but we got a lot more people talking about it that we thought would, you know, in LinkedIn so it's probably better to again post the LinkedIn because that's where a lot of students are spending their time. Yeah. That's right. I will definitely do that. Also, we did a Jenkins online meetup last week, one week before we did code for course meetup with more than two southern two views and more than 150 live participants. There was at least one follow up is a student from this meetup so let's see how it goes. Yeah, and we will definitely push some announcements. I guess tomorrow we will have a syncopes car to see does what but we are doing cluster. I mean marketing push anyway you may have seen these tweets about student and mentor experiences. If you go here you can find that we've had, for example, a tweet from Mark is Mark's recording calls a student recording videos and yeah, if anyone wants to share their experiences, just so could not please do so. So just a short video like 30 seconds, one minute and we will be happy to post it. Do we have a page or blog post or something with all these on it or is it just on Twitter? I have an action item for myself. I just didn't do that. But yeah, I have an action item. Some of these testimonials included in the gym can call for applications. This one so the post posted by car in April. So by this time we had four testimonials and you can find them here but now we have more. Yeah. So it may be worth just. Yeah, so I have this Google Doc, I can show it. So they basically aggregate all the JSOC related feedback we've got from previous years. So in form of videos, text messages, also travel reports we had before like Jenkins our blog posts etc. feedback from mentors, which is a good reminder that I should also record my video. And given if you want to record something about contributing to Jenkins, yeah, please do so. Same for others on the call. Okay. So anything else about JSOC? Okay. So the next week of the event was called for participation. So I posted an announcement in Twitter and LinkedIn we've got several follow ups. And I'm currently processing them. So most likely next week we will have an important meeting. I have six contributor leads. And let's see how it goes. Hopefully we will be able to increase our brand life. And we have upcoming events where it will be useful. Anything else. And, you know, in the way that marketing and everything else works in LinkedIn. We should probably post again multiple times before we call it closed. You mean posting multiple times in LinkedIn. Yeah, I wouldn't bother with Twitter. I don't know if anyone replied it on Twitter but the kind of thing you do in LinkedIn is, you know, once every two weeks or three weeks you post job postings again until you've filled up the slot so you can do that, but it may be worth doing. Might be though in LinkedIn it's a bit better in Twitter, because in Twitter, well, even with the current automated thing, which somehow shows you tweets and whatever order it defines. Yeah. You can basically get lost after several days. In the case of LinkedIn it's a bit better because these posts keep appearing because preferences, etc. So after you post something, you usually get traction for one month or so. Yeah, okay, so maybe another month. So, although I will say that it's very hard to get the view of posts for a specific quote company. You have to like click 18 times to get to the right section. The main feed is like Twitter though it just randomly shows you whatever it feels like showing you. Right. Well, that's right. So what we could do, we could basically post more quality content, increase number of followers. And I started making LinkedIn in April. So one year ago we had 3,000 followers. We have 52,000. Yeah. Modern in Twitter and the impression numbers are quite good, especially when we talk about technical content. For example, here's a recent blog post from, which basically reposted video from rather in pulp about the club multi branch. So, well, it's okay. You can scroll down. You can see that other events. Yeah, security blog posts also rent organizers. The board one gets a lot because I get tagged in it. Yeah. Yeah, so we can access this data. Basically, all LinkedIn means can access that. And if you want to be limited on being just let me know. Well, it kind of works. Definitely doesn't hurt to have implications there. They don't require much time. Either you should scale this approach to use the same publication method for Facebook and for Reddit. Maybe for something else. But yeah, we have talked about it multiple times. We haven't automated it yet. Yeah, the problem with automating it is it it'll actually probably reduce the impressions. Right. So that's why I mentioned LinkedIn Facebook and Reddit because all of them have more similar layout and taking format. Yeah. So it can work, but you cannot do the same for Twitter and LinkedIn. Yeah. So you can post something like that. It's basically like in Twitter. But if you talk about other things, so sometimes there are extended descriptions which helps with search with visibility and also it helps basically to post content directly in LinkedIn. So you don't have to click through to get basic information. Yeah. Well, like I said, I am still working on a POC to post blog posts to get the Gitter chat rooms. So once that's done, there's no reason we couldn't make it do it to other services as well. But it's not a priority for me. So. Also, there are GitHub actions for that if you want to have whatever social media is called. Well, we can do this in Jenkins somebody wants to hug. Yeah. But yeah, basically it's working progress. Okay. Moving on. So the next is for hosting team. So Alexa sent an announcement that he would be stepping down due to the lack of time. So first of all, thanks to Alexa for the contributions because he has been leading hosting process for the last three or four years. He has helped host, maybe three or 400 plugins. And also a lot of automation around it. Thanks to Alex team. So much appreciated. And right now we have a question on what we actually do because last year we tried to form the hosting team. We had two contributors who joined, but at the same time, Alex was the factor handed the most of the requests. So I also help to help to handle some requests featured by water helps, but definitely without Alex service process needs more money power to handle that. It's quite tedious. It also requires expertise and the Jenkins ecosystem so that you can suggest duplicates establish connections between plugin maintainers when reasonable. And we definitely need to onboard more contributors to this process. Do you have an idea how much time it takes per week to work on that. Well, we have pretty much full automation. So what we don't have automation for other reviews. Because usually, yes, there happens there's there's probably an average of one to two new plugin requests a week. And then Alex runs it to the automated checker which checks all the minute of the actual code stuff. Then he does a code review. So that one will take some time to pick on the size of the plugin. And, you know, going to the actual cycles through that so I'm thinking probably about three hours a week. And what kind of when and what kind of skills would you need to contribute on that. Except just reading PRs. Honestly Google just you know take a look at see what other plugins exist like so I've been helping out randomly I don't help very often. But you know, when a new plugin request comes in, you run the checker bot which is just one command it's easy to run. That does a lot of the work, then you do the code reviews the code review would be the only thing that actually requires any skill. And when we pointed out on our see it's it's you don't have to do the code reviews it's a nice thing to do it's nice to say hey, this will probably cause the security things you might want to look into it but if they don't do it. It's not the end of the world right so and then on top of that. It's just as Oleg says it's looking at existing plugins and seeing like do you want to extend this existing one do you want to merge with them do want to work with them. Most of the non automated stuff it's just nice to have useful things. We could essentially just run the body and prove everything and pass the body probably wouldn't be the end of the world. Well, there are some things to keep in mind. So firstly it's communication with maintainers when something goes wrong. Yeah, because when something is okay it's pretty straightforward. But sometimes you need to spend time referencing documentation, sometimes hand holding, for example here you open to the link it's not accessible. So I'm just going. So for the majority of the cases, a brand new, like a hacktoberfest or any sort of random person could come in, do the initial screening, you know take a look at the code see if they spot anything. And then someone with more experience could come in and answer any questions the reviewer has like they could be done that way and shave. I mean, Tim, Tim Jacobs myself and Alex Earl do hang out in the IRC channel answer a bunch of questions. We just don't have any other people reviewing. Right. Anyone else I mean Alex does everything. Yeah, good news that some requests can be reviewed by the security team. For example, yeah, when we host usually check for worst practices in terms of how you screw up Jenkins security like permission checks, missing required posts, etc. Make sure you use credentials instead of saving. Yeah, so basically, all these best practices. Daniel has started to automate some of them. And hopefully we will get this process in place as we discussed at the contributor summit. But yeah, it's not fully complete by now. Also, yeah. What's not automated is the duplication, because often we get hosting requests for function which is already available. Sometimes we get conflict in plugin hosting requests happening at the same time. Or not like in, for example, recently we had such a case for go long ways to seal eyes, we will go to post and request, which basically duplicate each other. It's just different projects and all of it requires special handling. So do you want me to draft up another LinkedIn post to get more people because so far we got one. I'm trying not to give all like more action items but I think it should be. No, I don't. Well, I used to run the hosting process before Alex took it over. Sorry, but yeah, I don't want to commit on that right now. I meant more. I'm trying not to throw out ideas that I'm not willing to do myself. So I think what I meant to say is I think we should broadcast a little broader about getting more people involved. So I will draft up a notice from LinkedIn and Twitter. Together help us contribute. Yeah, and put the documentation in place. So the next person who is interested to contribute to that can improve the documentation as well. Yeah, I spent some time on that during the previous iteration. So when we were introducing the hosting team one year ago. Okay, if you go to hosting, there is description of the team and there is description of how to contribute. And other things, obviously doesn't cover everything, but it's a starting point. And everybody's welcome to just send me the first and extended. Do you want to add a link to that to the doc as well. Sure. Yeah, actually wanted to have all the teams. So when I was working on that, I basically just added some teams which we had in place so security and trust actually hosting. I definitely want to put the release team here. But yeah, we have so many teams which are not that official so I'm not sure what to do with that. But yeah, we'll probably add them here at least as stakeholders. What's the difference between the team as a. That's a good question. So team as entity was introduced when we introduced officers. So if you use the Jenkins website terminology, we have a team leads, even hyperlink, because it's how it was on wiki. But basically it's officers. So from that we get five teams security infrastructure events release documentation in theory in practice it's not a case. And many sub projects and the six could be also considered as teams or as working groups. Though. Yeah. I mentioned a few times that I will like to start in line that maybe just merging six and sub projects working groups or something like that I don't have strong opinion as long as teams a great. But for me teams is mostly basically groups of contributors who work on. tasks, which are just mission critical to the project a second the time sensitive. Because you're going to drop the ball release on infrastructure and security, well you can but not for long. And for me teams may really sense in this area is because they we can use teams to share the workload. Yeah. So for example, I'm not sure whether there is a point in having a formal documentation team. So have documentation seek or working group, but definitely not. Or maybe copy editors team on Jenkins IO, which is probably a team but definitely not just documentation team. I hope you had enough contributors for it to be really a problem. But if you see any improvements and the documentation just feel free to submit a request. Okay. Do you want to add an action item for me to write up social media call. Yeah, you can probably copy paste some materials from this bridge, etc. Yeah. But if you do that it would be much appreciated. Okay. Then next thing CLA process updates. And so actually you can see the last updates in the mailing list. So, yeah, I contacted the Linux foundation. So the Linux foundation doesn't have strong opinion, whether we should use the CEO or CLA and how we use that. So taking the feedback, I suggest that we start from basically putting the current Jenkins approach to CLA. And then we talk about the legal stuff. So as I needed to request the Linux foundation in order to get easy CLA into it. I sent another message today just to remind about that. And I have a threat with maybe 10 people from Linux foundation with it. So hopefully you will get it established. And tomorrow if you're interested there is a easy CLA webinar. I think like 4pm UTC or 5pm UTC. So if you're interested you can join. So if I'm lucky and if I get access today I will set up it and then what more I will have some feedback. It's optimistic scenario. No other updates. Okay Jenkins contributor summit. So the first update that we have it confirmed. We confirmed that the region 25th. We confirmed how it will be announced. This continues the river foundation. And there is a coordination doc. So this coordination doc is basically more or less empty at the moment. So what you can do you can make suggestions about key topics you would like to discuss. So I put some wild ideas like Jenkins 3, Java 11, 17 support, Jenkins 7 collaboration, et cetera. So if you want to put something like that just make suggestions in the development list in this document. You still have two months to figure out everything. But yeah, I think that it would be nice to start planning the things. And then then, well basically that's it. So there is a lot of things to figure out like how do we use spark, et cetera, but the conference should be announced. So that is all also. That's why I don't want to like to do it on a personal way. So if you go to the contributor summit page yesterday I submitted a request which just it's very basic landing. You can see at all any UX designers as well come to the work that. But you just put some basic information, the registration button. So this registration button puts the silicone because we agree to use a CDF that we will use their registration form. So once it's ready, Jenkins will be one of the options. So you will be basically registering through Linux foundation system. And well, yeah, Jenkins contributor summit will also see once everything is in place, same as for Linux foundation events. So they have these sites for official events. And the Jenkins contributor summit will be also considered as official links foundation event. And it costs us zero dollars. So 15,000 less than it cost it two weeks ago. Yeah, speaking of the costs, you can see that some events have pages on events Linux foundation to talk. So if you want to be going to the same page for 1500. So, well, we can afford that. I don't see a particular need to do that, but if somebody has strong opinion, when we can get it posted. I mean, we never, I mean, we never really use that so I'm not sure that we have to pay for that. Yeah. So, well, except the fancy website and not the fancy content management project process if you want something to change. Basically just gets your landing on events Linux foundation talk. I'm not sure we really need that. If you want to this layout, I think we can create it on Jenkins or easily if needed. I think one of the question that we always hesitated in the past is, if the Jenkins contributor summit was targeting Jenkins users or contributor and then because sometimes we try to not promote too much the event. And so, if you look at the Linux foundation events, there are some contributed only events, there are some events focused on users. In the case of Jenkins, we can also have two types of plans. Right now, we are not really limited this promotion. Because before, when you're doing it during Jenkins fault, if you do too much promotion, you can get once other people coming to the event. It's a bit too much. For one event, we can host up to 500 participants if needed. It's definitely more than enough. And depending on how many registration as we get we can scale. So I wouldn't be too concerned. But yeah. So again, the agenda is subject for the discussion. When I was proposing this event, I was thinking about contributor summit, though having some sessions with user feedback would be nice. So for example, writing several key users to do a talk about what they would like to see in Jenkins or something like that. But yeah, I didn't think about it as a user event. So if you have six or seven jinx late talks during the CD con, so probably it's enough as a tons of your comment, Olivia. Yeah, if you have any ideas just drop them in this talk or in the mailing list. You have plenty of time to adjust. So should we move on then. To your contributor summit I hope we will have it announced this week. Well, the ball is on the CDF site right now, because we prepared everything on our side, we just need them to post the event energy will start from ocean. And as you have seen other events like spinnaker summit github summit that are being promoted already. So. Okay. So, then I have a few topics which I haven't submitted to the mailing list. So, right now definitely no decision, but maybe some initial discussion. The next topic is about Jenkins treasury. So our current stated that we have more than thinking on the SPI account, it includes JSOC budget includes a general purpose Jenkins budget, approximately 5050. And we have more than 3000 on the Linux foundation crowdfunding. So my question is whether you want to do something about that, or whether we just want to keep the current money on the SPI account and he will be spend them. Oh, my understanding. Yeah, sorry. Go ahead, Mark. So for, we can still actually request reimbursement for something from SPI even though they no longer hold the copyright for Jenkins. But they would be processing hosting requests. But the Jenkins is no longer a project of SPI. The SPI guidance board met, believe in February, if I recall correctly, they actually voted on excluding Jenkins, which is totally fine and taking our transition status and well they held a lot and they keep helping needed. And I keep our treasury there for a while. But yeah, so we are not pressed to leave. But at the same time, yeah, it might be better from the duration standpoint. So for SPI, the main problem is quite tedious process in terms of the handling because SPI is driven by volunteers and sometimes it takes one to months to deliver the payment. I keep this issue a few times when you're processing payments for JSOC students. For JSOC, at some point our recommendation was that it's better that if a mentor pays and then we reimburse the mentor. But yeah, otherwise it works pretty fine. And for Jenkins Foundation crowdfunding, it also works pretty fine. And to add other government support members to the SPI because the next foundation crowdfunding it has a front-end, which you can show, but the expense report handling is a bit complicated there. So just a second. So if you go to the need, there is a need to finally fix that. Okay, so, and we also need to fix that because it's no longer community preach, it's LFX crowdfunding. But after that, if you finally get there, you can see that there is Jenkins budget with some things. Yeah, basically that's it. So you can donate the things there, you can manage some things there. And when you manage expenses, it's Expensify. And there basically on the month we can at Benefit shares, then this Benefit shares can submit expense reports using standard Expensify tools including basically phone applications that they want. And then Jenkins Foundation accounting in handles the payments. We cannot use them copying accelerates or whatever, but you can use it opening statements and reimbursing contributors for whatever you need. Stickers, infrastructure costs, domain costs, whatever, whatever. Do you have a list of do you have a list of things that we can you add that you can that we you where we usually spend money. So for instance from an infrastructure point of view I know that we've been using the SPI to pay the same grid account but it's only $15 a month. But obviously if we want to use that need to pay the Azure account then everything will be done in one month. So if we talk about Asia account, it's a completely different story right now, we are not ready for that. Thanks to the continuous labor foundation for sponsoring. But they, if you really need to pay a 10 seven months, then we will need to really work on crowdfunding. I'm mentioning that maybe we could have lists about how we use that money. Yeah, that was it. I worked at last year when I was setting it up because before that we had all the documentation which was in conflict is how we used to actually spend money. So it's facilitating whatever key initiatives including outreach programs, work, etc, operating infrastructure expenses, organizing meetups gifts for reporting security vulnerabilities funding travel grants. And yeah, basically it's what we had historically. So if you see anything missing there is feel free to suggest the change. Yeah, one of you is revealing that this is to seem to be covering all the actual needs. So, yeah. I know that's not the right season for that but personally I would prefer to do sponsor maybe some GSOC student if they want to travel to talk about Jenkins or whatever. Yeah. So for that, we have Jason budget. So there is Jeff, which is not mentioned is Jeff paid, which specifically covers how we spend the GSOC budgeting and the agreement in this job that basically all JSOC money remain designated for JSOC. Historically we have spent this money for travel grants. For example, in Tucson at 19 we were able to sponsor for students to travel to Jenkins world, the Vox world. And yeah, obviously last year, we didn't sponsor any student because there was no travel, but we still keep this money and this potential that we sponsored them in the coming years in this situation normalizes. I mean, I don't want, I mean, not JSOC directly but do we want to sponsor any other open source stuff that we use. So, um, the Archive program. The what I was, so I mean I sponsor bunch of the JavaScript build tools and JavaScript libraries that I use personally quite a bit. I think that Jenkins uses a few JavaScript ones but a lot of Java ones and might be worth, because someone was donating to Jenkins. I don't know if they would necessarily donate to things that Jenkins uses. Yeah, I would agree with it. But if you wanted, I would rather suggest a different approach, because we can definitely highlight opportunities for donation. And we can help, for example, by submitting contributions to upstream etc. I wouldn't spend Jenkins budget on sponsoring other projects, unless there is just fighting it for the Jenkins project. For example, if you want to improve, let's say, maybe in the release plugin to help Jenkins releases, it's definitely something we can sponsor from the Jenkins budget. Yeah. So, right now, I basically brought up this question just to get feedback from somebody. If nobody sees any strict need to move out from SPA and no evidence. I just have confirmation from the Linux Foundation that we can move the funds without additional fee from the Linux Foundation. But yeah, there is no emergency need to the transition. Anything else on budgeting and other things. I think a reminder for me that we actually need to publish the budget report for the previous year. We actually expected to publish the budget report every six months as a governance board, if I recall correctly, it was written some way in the governance doc. But yeah, I didn't think that it was a case before. A reminder for myself because that was going through this budget things anyway. Okay. More fun topic. So actually we missed the event. So in February, it was 10 years since Hudson renewing to Jenkins. So yeah, we missed it, but maybe we still want to somehow do some marketing related stuff around this one. For example, just having a blog post is some testimonials from finding fathers like Kiki, Tyler, Andrew, maybe somebody else. And yeah, if you have other ideas in mind, we can definitely do that. Maybe also a special sticker. Yeah, I'm not sure whether we have an advice to do that. And personally, I would find it weird since we promote a lot of 15 years of Jenkins. That's a long ago. So I would find it weird to not talk about the 10 years of Jenkins. Well, even the 15 years was a bit weird because the promo, so the 15 years promotion happened on the CDF, but not on Jenkins. The two reasons I can fully comprehend except lack of and white, the community side. So I would definitely do some promotion. So yeah, blog post. Well, I guess it's something we can definitely do. We have too many blog posts every day on Jenkins. So regarding stickers. Well, for contributors and whatever. Yeah, I'm not sure. Because it's basically production and logistics costs. So we know how to spend the money. Yeah, send them from Canada to Europe. Yeah, and then I also know who the people that have mechanical keyboards. Well, actually it's not the worst idea. So it's definitely a good thing to do. Also, some people start running out of t-shirts, I guess. But yeah. So the main problem for us is production because currently the official way we can use is to open the pinnacle. It's vendor of the Linux foundation and to get to work on the Linux foundation store. So we build our bundles like we did for JSOC, UIX, Hackfest last year. But yeah, from what we discovered the delivering Shwak from the cost select. And yeah, right now I'm trying to figure it out. Because there are other requests for Shwak including she quotes Africa, JSOC, JSOD applicants. And yeah, right now I'm doing have answer. And if somebody knows a friendly company would deliver these things and produce Shwak bundles like stickers, t-shirts, etc. We definitely talk to them. For example, Daniel Beck currently uses Redbubble for security gifts. All of these things are quite expensive actually. The usual ocean uses that same one Jenkins uses so I don't have anything. Yes, well Jenkins currently uses only pinnacle. I just couldn't remember that I know you just said it but I couldn't remember the name so. It's a relatively small company but yeah they serve the entire Linux foundation. So, I guess all of us on the call got a few boxes from them for the past year. The boxes are really cool but yeah the delivery cost is not cool. So, yeah. And we don't really need FedEx I guess. I think in general shipping international is expensive. Yeah right, but yeah I can just share some numbers. So for example, if I want to send 250 grams from Switzerland to the United States or to India, it costs nine francs. That's basically it. If I want to do the same with pinnacle it costs eight times more. So, yeah we need to figure out these numbers. But we are right now here with rather standard from Switzerland. So, yeah one of you had to do something with 19 Martin Benjoo did a heroic effort, sending everything from from Canada, and dollars. But it's, it's totally possible it's just a huge time investment to do. If you do it without the logistics system. I think a lot of people start paying attention also to their carbon, their carbon footprint and I think it would be cool if we could brag about you know, carrying for the environment and and not like sending stuff to the other side of the world. But maybe spending time on finding a local vendor that can I don't know print stickers in India or something like that. Or we can send PDFs and whatever NFC tokens. I understand it's it's probably a travel song but I personally get very irritated when if you go to sense sense as something that I didn't ask for and I definitely agree with you but for the challenge there is it depends if you have a local events. I mean, then you can prepare everything locally and that's fine. That's what I've been doing for for instance for first time I print everything in Belgium and I mean most of the things are producing Belgium. But when you have like events where people can contribute from everywhere in the world that's quite challenging to have local vendors. I understand it's not always possible but if we if we if we can manage to step it like a bit like one step further, that's something that's, that's, you know, maybe maybe have a list of vendor per continent or per countries or something like that. I think we should do like hacktoberfest and just offer to not send swag be like hey, you know you want to recognize your contribution, you want to plant a tree instead. You know, and then Jenkins can review that will plant a tree and settle was in the 14 to Twitter. Yeah, and then we'll plant the plant trees in the shape of the butler to. Well, actually it makes sense, though, also makes sense to some extent. But yeah, I don't think that we can go calm. So, I did, I did it in chat but I saw it and it's one of the ones I learned about recently is ecology.com. So essentially it'll let you gift with an eye so ecology. Yeah, so essentially you can gift trees to people so you can set it up and I think they have an API as well. So this would be another option to. Oh yeah, there is actually the same program on. So, basically, when you participate in October first, there is also a vendor and they put actually planted the trees. I would likely. One of, so digital shouldn't runs October first and one of the digital shouldn't customers wrote a tool that you can log in with your digital account and it'll look at all the servers are running and then click you click a button and you donate that many trees to counteract the number of servers are running. So that's how I heard about this. Yeah, I told me that they actually don't teach it from October first, but at the same time I found it to 23 years. Well, I guess. Yeah, and like a physical swag is it means a lot to many people and there are still some things that I like so I'm not saying like you know, let's let's go trees only or something like that but I think those are nice ideas and and and depending on the event or what's the occasion we can probably come up with with with some some solution that would appeal to most. I would definitely in favor of that because I mean when you look at the act of a face a lot of people choose to the trees option. That was quite popular. So I would definitely for that, that option as well. And if we can do a group by we could be like Jenkins tree plants 10,000 trees. So, next face to face computer science will be quite busy. Right. Yeah, we'll all bring a spade and serve planting them one at a time. Yeah, I'm in. I rather do it drones up because I think they're more fun. Okay. Anyway, it's a good idea to consider. Again, we could partner with whatever organization like ecology or something like that and to see how we could promote it, because it could be a more permanent call to action. Why not. Yeah. So, yeah. Anything else on what we were discussing actually. Yeah, it's liberating 10 years. I guess I have ended up responding to this. We're talking about produces swag for that event. Yeah, right. So, for this particular event, I don't think we have enough time to produce work. So, well, we can just do the post way for now. Yeah, if you have some band wife later, let's see how we could, what we could do. But I think that's a good idea to to have a little swag that we can produce for future events. So, yeah, that's right. So basically what I asked CDF is having a swag box. Basically, you can choose either Jenkins socks or Jenkins t-shirt, one of options sizes, etc. And also a pack of Jenkins and CDF stickers. So the cost of the box itself is totally reasonable. I mean, without really box, but having a package. So we can do it for $15 or so. Maybe 20. The real problem right now is delivery cost. Because $20 for Schwab kit is totally fine. But 100 for Schwab box and delivery doesn't seem to be so fine. So for 100 for the 10 year thing, we do something different and we, and it's weird to spend the money like that but like name a star or something like that name a star Jenkins CI or something. You know, as a big milestone. Yeah, there's there's programs out there that you know when they discover a new son or whatever you can you can name a star out there and registered. There's really just a name on paper but you know it's kind of something that's different and you know unique and you could throw it up there as a you know, you know, to celebrate 10 years we donated to this or we named this or you know, because I mean as regular contributors to Jenkins and everything else. There's a lot of swag that comes their way it's like I got a bunch when I was at Jenkins world I got a bunch when I went to conferences at work. I don't think any of the people on this call are probably the ones that are lacking in swag. I think the people who are lacking a swag or the new contributors, but I'm not sure the 10 year mark is a good idea to get swag to new contributors I think it's a good way to bring in new contributors. I think something unique and different would be a great way to bring in new contributors because if you will talk about it. Right. So yeah, regarding stars here you missed the first April because we could buy some property on the moon. Yeah, and on smoothing Jenkins service there. Olivia would be quite busy with it. We can put ipfs up there and just everyone can archive the artifacts to the moon. Anyway, so yeah some idea for the next year. Okay. So, yeah, let's keep discussing that. So I'm working on this swag kids, we have multiple programs. So it's not only she calls Africa, we had some open to be Jenkins fantastic and report issues. We also have a few other programs to keep in mind including each ones. Okay, once we have a swag kid on the city of store or elsewhere becomes quite automatic. To handle logistics for all of that. I'm realizing it how latest for you all because the three of you are yawning, like mad it's making me want to yawn. Chris is in. He hasn't started yawning yet. Okay, so speaking of that. What do we do with meeting times, because yeah, 8pm UTC seemed fine when it was 9pm in Europe now it's 10pm Europe. I'm good moving an hour early if you want. No sir, you're certainly great for me. Elena, Olivier Chris, any objections to you to moving it one hour earlier. I could do as far as two hours, I couldn't do any earlier than that. Two hours is fine for me as well. I think Uli's our purpose in moving it to, to only to the current time was so that Uli could have a chance to put kids to bed. And, and still be able to attend the meeting after kids were in bed. So, for me moving two hours earlier risks that will be right into his kids bedtime. No, I agree. That's just my window. This is my perfect. This is the same situation 9pm for me it's easier because I'm sure that the kids are sleeping. Okay, so let's talk at 9pm. Oh, thank God. I mean, it's, that's noon for me so it doesn't bother me at all. I still have an open question of whether you want to adjust meeting schedule if you want to have some meetings in the region and Pacific time zone. But yeah, I know there was no interest contributors. Rick, I guess we'll start joining if you had meetings in this time zone. But the government's governance one or just meetings in general. I mean, we have a few meetings in the apartheid times on all of them like jcask and change the localization seat. I know I can't do European mornings it's it's like 3am for me. Yeah, I can do but not European. Well, we still need to do the most of this type of synchronously. So these meetings should be rather just rather stumping whatever decisions and maybe having some discussions. Well, it's great to have a long discussion like this one about being free, etc. That's why we could have such sessions in the morning as well. Well in my morning sometimes so that other contributors also get involved. But it's great to speak and not about governance. So, yeah, I think we agreed about the meeting times anything else for today. No, I want to pick Mark and Olivia's brain briefly afterwards but I'm good. So like I'm going to go ahead and stop the recording and