 Hey, all right. So yeah, welcome to the Invisible Residence. We're doing this over on the Breeders Syndicate podcast right now, just to give you guys a preview of what's to come from the Invisible Residence. This is gonna be our fourth episode. I'm doing a second piece, part two, on the Dottleston Messages and my partner over here, Nick Coffin-Calis from the Invisible Night School. I'm going to, Dexter Michigan, I'm gonna tell the whole story again because I went through the whole bit and found out it wasn't live. Yeah, yeah. So we've been basically, we've got, we're a good 18 minutes in on performing this until we realized, oh, we're not live. So which is good because we don't want to swear in the first minute and I did, so. So did I. I promise. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we're good this time, we're ready to rock. So, dude, let's kick it off. We started off. Kick it off, roll my film that'll get us up to speed with what we're talking about. All right, here we go. Roll it. In 1966. A wave of sightings were being reported in southeast Michigan, primarily surrounding Washtenaw County that began as early as March 14th. Nearly a week later, Frank Manor was returning home with one of his dogs when he noticed a strange light in the sky. Initially, he dismissed it and went inside for dinner. But as he describes. Well, first beginning, we were watching television and we have six dogs here and they started raising a fuss in which they never do much. So I went outside and gave a yell at them as I turned around to come back on the porch. I looked to the north of me and there were, looked like a falling star meter. It was red and kind of coming down on about a 45. And so then I watched it and I was gonna see if it landed and then maybe go down and see what it was. And when it got to the top of the trees, it stopped in a blue and a white light come on it. And I looked at it and I thought I was seeing things. While Frank's wife called the Washtenaw Sheriff's Department, Frank and his son, Ron, had towards the woods to investigate. As soon as they stepped out of the house, they could see the object above them, closer now and descending. They're just above tree level where it stopped and hovered motionless. As Frank and Ron continued toward the swamp where they could see the object hovering, two Washtenaw County deputies, Stanley McFadden and David Fitzpatrick parked their car adjacent to the swamp and proceed on foot. The following is from their report. Well, in the woods area, a brilliant light was observed from the far edge of the woods and upon our approaching, the light dimmed in brilliance. The brilliant light then again appeared and then disappeared. A continued search of the area was conducted through swamp and high grass with negative results. Upon returning to the patrol vehicle, the underside officers were informed that one of the objects had been hovering directly over the area where our flashlight beams had been seen and then departed in a west direction of flight at high rate of speed. Meanwhile, on the other end of the swamp, Frank and Ron had gotten much closer to the object. They described the area where they stood as being entirely lit up, like being caught in a searchlight while fog rolled out of the bottom that reflected the red and green glow emanating from the edges of the craft. Then abruptly, the lights blinked out like flipping a switch and the object instantly appeared an estimated 1500 feet away. It continued its erratic movements until the two deputies' flashlights became visible after they had come over a small hill. The object, seemingly in response, took off in an amazing speed directly over the officer's heads. Despite these corroborating accounts, the residents of Dexter lashed out at Frank Manor and his family, ridiculing, stalking, and harassing him. Well, you're gonna look at here, look, beer bottles thrown. Look at my windshield. What would you think if some of your swung beer bottles to your house stand out in the middle of a road screaming, you'd not be a fanatic and all that? What would you think? Are you sorry now that you did tell people what you saw? Yes, I am. I'm sorry because it's not the truth, but it's just the reaction of the people. They think you're a nut to tell you the truth. That's just what they figure you are. And I'm not gonna take it no more. I don't want nobody down in here. I just leave me alone. And if the thing lands right there and right there by that pump, I'd never say a word. Then you got out and talked to me. I wouldn't tell nobody. That's just the way I feel. I'm bitter and disgusted and the whole map. And if people's gonna act like that, I hope one lands right in the middle or Detroit. There we go. Mac. So while this flap, a UFO flap for the non-UFO people is kind of a concentrated time period and location of sightings. It's also called a wave. This wave in Southeast Michigan had been going on for at least a couple of weeks prior to this case, but this was kind of like the peak. It was all building towards this because on the very next night, about 70 miles northwest is Hillsdale College, where in the new women's dorm about 80 witnesses, 80 girls in this dorm, all witnessed a very similar sighting to what Frank Nanna described. Now there are dorm mom, which I believe is an RA. We talked about this last time. I think it's an RA. She was a former newspaper writer. So when she caught wind of all these girls screaming and looking out the window and pointing, she's like, everybody write down everything you see, every detail you can think of, all compiled all these notes. Now at this point, the papers were starting to pick up with this big time. Like I said, this was the peak of this flap in 66 in Michigan. And these papers are becoming national. So the Air Force catches wind of this. This is 1966. So it's project bluebook time. Right now run by Major Hector Quintanilla, who is kind of reluctant to have this post at bluebook. So he sends Heineck down to Michigan to interview people. As he's sending him, he calls up the Detroit Press Club and says, hey, I got my guy coming. This is a Wednesday. Set him up for Friday. Make sure all the papers are there. We'll be giving our explanation. So Heineck on this way, I've read some places that he was, he had a broken jaw at the time too. So interesting. This is kind of like last minute. Yeah. He went down there. He talks to a couple of people. Not really many of the Hillsdale girls. He talks to the Manor family on the farm. He talks to the civil defense director, Mr. Van Horn, who the girls in Hillsdale called and he came during the signing and caught the tail end of it. He talks to him and he stays over with some professor colleagues from U of M. They start suggesting that maybe some of the sightings were caused by marsh gas. Now that might sound sort of familiar even to the non familiar UFO enthusiasts. So Heineck shows up for this press conference and he says that some of the sightings, some of the hundreds of sightings reported in this time may have been caused by marsh gas. It's methane built up under swamps and stored under ice and snow during the winter that's ignited and catches on fire essentially. And he says that like a sequence of them could have gone off to simulate movement. Now this is common around Michigan or these exist. I have visited Dexter and there are a lot of swamps there. So it is possible. I think that igniting swamp gas is pretty rare. However, he does specifically say that he doesn't think that that explanation fits the Dexter or the Hillsdale sightings. However, the press picks that up and runs with swamp gas which I'm sure most people see even in the chat weather balloons and swamp gas. This is the origin of that excuse. Now it's something that he didn't say necessarily but the press ran with it. So now the Air Force is calling UFOs swamp gas. So not only is it kind of, it's like proto viral at this point among citizens of the U.S. that the Air Force is duty with UFOs is to come up and debunk them. So this is riling people up. All these newspapers are running with the swamp gas thing which reaches the Michigan Senator at the time, Gerald Ford prior to him being president. He's furious at the swamp gas allegations and demands congressional hearings on UFOs. He wants to see what blue book is correct or collected. He wants to see all their evidence which eventually gets turned into an academic study which gets shipped off and bitted around taken up by the University of Colorado which eventually became the Condon report which no fellow people will be familiar with the scientific study of identified flying objects. It's a fat book that got a rocky start. One of the people who was pitching it to the board of the University of Colorado, his name was Rob Lowe and he wrote a memo that some ufologists ended up finding somehow, I'm not exactly sure how he found that in which he was essentially pitching it to the board by just saying like, look, we don't have to buy into this, we can pretend it's upfront and scientific and stuff as long as we get our check. Yeah. Which is dubious. It's us for sure. For sure. For sure. The work's all in here. They go over a lot of cases in here and there are some unknowns left over. I think the important thing to remember though is unknown is not an alien that's still a stretch and that's still a case you have to make with evidence. But as I was talking, where'd I go? I don't know, where a camera went out. I think we're cursed tonight. I think that, yeah. There you are. That is the wrong camera though. Sorry, man. This is not good. This is F'd. I'm not costing the night. There we go. There you go. So I think kind of the method in which the lazy at the time press picked up and ran with that is really similar to how I see a lot of UFO community acting towards prominent skeptics. Now you have people like Stephen Greenstreet, Mick West saying that like this video is a seagull. It's not a UFO or this is a drone and you see a lot of the responses coming back saying like, oh, Mick West says everything's a seagull. You see prominent figures like Dr. Gary Nolan making seagull jokes to Mick West when this all originated from that stigma that they all whine about. I think it's the irony is palpable. And I think they should take a look back into history. Yeah, they should. So, and while I think that swamp guests might explain a case here or there or other mundane things likely do explain cases here and there, I think that in particular the Dexter and the Hillsdale cases are interesting and not explained yet and worth more people looking at, more scrutiny and more crowdsource investigation. Yeah, I mean, that's my piece. How often do you see quilted skinned? Oh, yeah, did I say that? Like, did I say it last time? Yeah, the manors described this object. I mentioned that it was mostly silent in the video. The one sound it did make is when it took off it made the sound of a ricocheting bullet and they described the outside of the craft as it was essentially football shaped with lights on the end and something on top. The whole skin of it had a brown quilted structure to it, which is really unique. I haven't seen that in any other UFO sighting. It's really strange. Is that a common occurrence of swamp gas to be quilted? Quilted? I don't think so. No, I don't think it makes ricocheting noises. And I didn't give any explanation, do we know? Not for that one. They went out, they looked for trace evidence. Van Horn, the civil defense guy found a circle out in the field, a perfect circle. Now, was this related to the sighting? We don't know. He brought out his little Geiger crown or this guy was a turbo nerd. Yeah. He didn't find any like- Got a pocket geiger. ...next generation or anything like that. But he seemed into it. One account that I read actually stated that he was the first one to suggest a Heineck the swamp gas idea. Despite the fact, he witnessed it and didn't think it was swamp gas. He threw that out there though. This guy was a nerd, like I keep saying. Yeah, so the girls- I bet he regrets that. Yeah, the girls at the Hillsdale dorm, they call up the civil defense guy. They get his wife, he's off running around and she's like, oh, did you guys hear about all the cases in Lansing too? Freaking out, everyone who called her, they're calling up the civil defense director, they get his wife. She's saying, oh, he's not here right now, but they're seeing him in Lansing too. These ladies were panicked. He eventually comes home, gets a message, rushes over there and catches the tail into the sighting. What they saw, their descriptions actually match the police officers from the night before of how it kind of reacts to the presence and flashlights of people. It would dim and go away when it saw flashlights coming and when they moved out of the area, they would come back in. Yeah. It's kind of interesting. You actually see similar descriptions from the Hudson Valley case in the 80s. Another case I've researched heavily and I do think that was a mundane explanation. That was a group of pilots that flew out in every Tuesday or Thursday night. I wrote an article about it. People can go read that. Where would they read the article at? That's theinvisiblenightschool.com. It's the first post. Very cool. How the media reacted to the Hudson Valley flap. But yeah, that was a series of planes. However, I am clearly a skeptic, but I have everything I'm saying. However, I do think a good number of people, what they experience isn't necessarily that mundane thing. Like I know, for instance, the Hudson Valley sightings was a series of planes. However, there's a good amount of witnesses from that. They had a much more personal and exaggerated experience. And I do believe them. And I think part of the mystery of these cases is why they had that experience when they were looking at planes. There's a lot of facets to each case and each case is its own mystery. Yeah. I mean, everybody's brain chemistry is different as I've learned with cannabis. And just in that alone, experiences are so subjective. Yeah, exactly. But I still think that's an interesting facet of each case is why and what people experienced, even when they're experiencing something as simple as a plane or something as rare as ball lightning. Maybe Jacques Valais would say it's the trickster. Sure, yeah. Where they write on the back of something mundane and trick a few people that are watching this mundane thing and give them the experience. I should mention, I mentioned it last time, Jacques Valais, since he brought him up, he co-authored a book with Heineken 76 called Edge of Reality in which he called all the ladies at Hillsdale stupid. Oh, ouch. Yeah, we got these prominent figures dismissing witness claims, which is interesting. Yeah, it's very interesting. People have with contemporary skeptics. And you know what's weird is a lot of the experiences are like putting them on shirts and stuff like that, holding them in high regard. But I know a lot of people that go back and look at, that may have admired Heineken early on in their studies, go back and look at a lot of what he did. And there's a lot of questions about his motives, whether he was working for the intelligence community even back then to help push disinformation and misinformation. And in some cases, we have really good evidence for it. Well, he was part of that Invisible College, which my site takes is a play on that name, which is still going on. I mean, there's still people involved in that. It's that same crew that you see behind, like all the modern UFO stuff that you're seeing. It's that same group of Scientologists, essentially. Yeah, I mean, I've still never understood if the Invisible College was the same thing as the Aviary, or if it was- Oh, right, yeah, the Aviary. Who knows? It's a bunch of nerds. Yeah, LARPing nerds. It's a bunch of LARPing nerds that people take too seriously. But that's not to say, like, all of this stuff. I'm not a believer in, like, Lua Elizondo, for example, but that doesn't mean I dismiss every UFO case. I like to look at each one that at least seems compelling, at least from the start, which is how I came across the Lake Michigan case of 94, which we did an episode or two ago. It's how I found the Dexter case. It's how I found Hudson Valley. That one was, like, my top case for the longest time until I actually kind of looked into it and realized that the newspapers and the police at the time had solved that case before the ufologists had even gotten there. Oh, wow. Yeah. But it's still a fun story, and it's fun seeing how rivalries and arguments and discourse, even in between the UFO enthusiasts was flying back and forth even back then. It was just the proto UFO Twitter of the time writing in respect of journals at each other, basically hit pieces. Yeah. I love collecting those old journals for that reason because you can see a lot of these old interactions, like even private communications done publicly, but kind of with, like, undercurrents of throwing shade. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, what was going on between Dick Roll and Philip and Brogno at the time, and Brogno was really pushing the mystery in the Hudson Valley case, like, really hard, and he wouldn't let it go. Even when Dick Roll staked out the airport and caught all the pilots and even gave a tail number to one of the planes, he was still fighting that. And then he eventually got into dealing with the channelers, essentially. And then he turned out to be a fraud. He was making up his entire education background and possibly his military background. Yeah, if you go out and read Night Siege, because you want to learn about Hudson Valley, just take it with a lump of salt and understand that it's written by a fraud. And of course, it had Heineck's name attached to it. This last thing he worked on before he died, and I think that gave a little bit of a credibility boost to Brogno, unfortunately. Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure. Yeah, that's the story of Hillsdale and Dexter and how it led into the Condon Report and the government stopping their investigation of UFOs officially, even to this day. You know, as you talk about the end of that, it kind of brings me to my case this week. And some of the frustrations that I found around this case. So when I first started listening to this case, I first encountered it on, I actually wrote their names now because I did not want to forget them this time, Nostalgia Nerd podcast, the Sonishing Legends podcast did a great job with it too. And Y-Files did it as recently as six months ago. Now, looking at their coverage of it, it seemed like only a few of them actually read the book all the way through. And only one of them, I would say, really, really gave a good idea of what was going on. But still, I think, had I had known, I may not have even spent the time reading all this as much as I have. Well, you know, it's a good thing you did because we can finally cover this now. Yeah. Because no one's really done their due diligence in covering this case, it sounds like to me. I'm not familiar with all of the sources you listed, but I mean, I get the impression that we're going to be delving into a little bit new territory here. Yeah, I think so. So I'm going to go ahead and kick this up. Yes. I think last time I actually left the cut in here. So we knew exactly where he left off. I think it was like slide 40 or something. Let's see. Hopefully it'll catch up. And there we go. Yeah. All right. So here we are. We start with, we start at, we have a guy from the Middle Ages, just as a quick recap. We have a male from the Middle Ages, identifying himself as LW, later to be found as Lucas. I can't remember the last name, Lucas is what he mostly goes by. He says he's from the Middle Ages and he's pretending, acting or actually experiencing people from another reality in our current time as we understand it. And they are talking to him on a BBC microcomputer. And it just so happens that one of the days they open the file, this random file named with their, the first letter of each of their first names, they open it up and this communication starts with this character that seems to be coming from the Middle Ages. So as it goes on, we're still seeing more poltergeist stuff happen. We're seeing more milk carton stacked, the cat food stacked, August is still going on. Ken Webster, who wrote the book, The Vertical Plane, I believe it's called. He's the one who wrote the main book that I spent most of my time reading. After listening to the podcast of stuff, I enjoyed it, but I wanted to see from Ken Webster's point of view if there's anything I could add to it. Sure. So as we go back and we look at where we're at, there were the discrepancies with the punctuation and the spelling and phrasing words. Depending on who you talk to, what are the people involved? I'll run over who's involved actually. So we have a quick recap of that too. We have Debbie, she's 19, and we have Ken Webster who is either 29 or 49, depending on where you look in the book. We have Nick the writer who was originally why they brought the computer home. And Nick Nicole or Nicola, I believe, lives with them on and off randomly throughout this story. We have Peter who works with Ken Webster at his school as a teacher, and Peter is an English teacher. And despite all the grammar errors, it really seems like Peter was the one who was pushing the story that this is unique phrasing, that it really is legit despite the punctuation, the weird things they were getting wrong. Peter felt like and repeatedly said throughout the book it would take someone as smart as himself to hope this. So if this is a hope, he'd love to meet the hope, so he can tell you that. Yeah, yeah. Not only was there weird grammatical and spelling errors, but I think once they got to communicating back and forth, I think they asked who was the king and they got the age wrong too. Yes, they were asking who was King Henry Mary too at that time, because that's really easy to date, like which wife he was married to, at which time he was alive. And I believe they said Catherine Parr, he was married to at that time. It's interesting because that guy who says, you'd have to be as smart as me to pull off this hoax. I don't believe that that guy in particular would have made these errors, right? Because this was kind of- I don't think so. He was kind of a middle ages buff, right? Yeah, yeah. He was a middle ages. In order to recognize any of those things. He's a middle ages literary buff and he was recognizing the errors, but still it's just one of those things with that cognitive bias where- Sure. And a lot of people suspected him at the time too, because he was so convinced and he was capable of writing this. A red herring. Yeah, so over the next several weeks, we start moving forward. Computers were borrowed. Here's some slides of the house, just so for people that are watching the video can get an idea of roughly what the house looks like where all this is going on. So here's an example of Peter, the English professor. He said it would be unwise to correct Lucas on his errors about the college. The idea was to make us seem still gullible. But on a day like this, I looked forward wholeheartedly to the next communication. Last time it had come with Deb in the house, so I went out to the car. Debbie sat in the living room very quietly with the door to the kitchen closed and everywhere locked up. A message was not long and coming. Debbie had heard nothing. It was surprised that the kitchen door opened the kitchen door and to see the following. And that's an excerpt from The Vertical Plane by Ken Webster. And I wanted to show this because I felt it illustrates one of those many examples in the book where it's Debbie alone with the unit when this text is produced. Ken is out sitting in the car. According to this, Debbie is the one that's inside the house. It's really interesting how he doesn't give any context. He's just like, so I went out to the car. Yeah, yeah, just of course he did. Of course he left Debbie in there by herself, because it always popped up when Debbie was there, so she's obviously the conduit, as it were. Is that the word? Yeah, I guess that would be the word, right? Well, let me say this, that's not unprecedented. If you go back into parapsychological research, what is it, random spontaneous psychokinesis was kind of their concept of what poltergeists were. While this case is displaying classic poltergeist activity, the stacking of objects and moving on things, and this activity centering around a young girl. That's very common throughout parapsychological history. Yeah. Tungtide today. It's terrible words. But yeah, there's some precedent to that of her actually being a conduit. It's not as, well, maybe it is as silly as it sounds. But for the time, the people and the theories, the books they were reading, like we talked about last time, they were reading the poltergeist book. This was, at first, it sounded like Ken Webster was trying to keep himself, and the way I read it, it looks like it was written with a lot of hindsight in mind, and not really what he was thinking at the time. Because in this book, he constantly refers to it as thinking it was a hoax the whole time. Yet his actions that he partook in during this time don't really make me think that it was a hoax, that he thought it was a hoax. Right. I mean, why would he look forward to it wholeheartedly? Exactly. Things like that. But it's written with so much hindsight that he constantly slips in there while I think it was a hoax. It could have been a hoax. And this is what we thought at the time. But their actions don't look like at the time they thought it was a hoax. I mean, he was having to check these computers out all the time, and it doesn't really say I couldn't find anywhere where it says if it was always the same computer being checked out. One, I think that's important. Two, during that era, there was modem telephony, but it was not in use with these BBC micros so there's no one that could have been hacking this. Sure. Yeah, it's essentially a word processor. A few people are old enough to recall those. Yes. The electronic typewriters. I want to make one other observation. The first file that they found, the first communication, it was titled with the first letter of each member's initials. Yes, it was. I seem to recall that first message though, asking like, who are ye in my house? Yes, it was. Hmm. Yeah. Very interesting, right? Very suspicious. Very suspicious. Go on though. Go on. The plot thickens. The plot thickens. So yeah, the next several weeks become games of cat and mouse, testing each other to see if each was legit. So like, they were asking each other questions to see if the other could answer them correctly. Debbie, and actually it was Ken doing most of the typing. It was mostly Ken doing it. And later on it kind of switched up. But Ken was doing most of the typing and he would ask him like, what is above, or what are the names written on this XYZ in Oxford? Sure. Because it was written back during that time and he wants to see if this person really is in Oxford, able to catch this stuff. And the person would come back with all the names correct, but they'd write that it was in the wrong section. And without Ken telling them, ha, we got you, we got you. This is the wrong section. He would write back the next time like, oh, my apologies. I got the section wrong. It was actually, and so he correct himself without even being directed to be corrected, if that makes sense. Which was really interesting. So it's almost like, like maybe he was in that there times, limited time space where he could hear, see, touch, interact with objects. Because remember there was a picture that he touched that caught on fire or burned the edges. Oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot. They were exchanging physical items. And at one point, and it's coming up here shortly, you'll see, let's see where is it. Lucas actually writes on the wall in chalk like this. This is what it looked like. And he writes on the wall in chalk. And this is shortly thereafter or right before. I can't recall. Debbie has a dream of Lucas. Oh, interesting. Debbie has a dream of Lucas, and he's like a fleeting figure in her dream, dressed in old garb and whatnot. And oddly enough, the next day, a message appears. Low and behold. Low and behold, a message appears on the screen. And Debbie, it had a lot of words for Debbie about how beautiful she was and how much of a lady she was. And now a little bit before this, he was also going through writing her, calling her a tomboy, telling her she needed to be more of a woman for her man. Oh. Which is really interesting advice. You know what I mean, like? Yeah. It was very interesting advice. I'm really confused about this Lucas figure who seems to be at once kind of like omniscient, but also very confused and not in a very accurate writer. Doesn't know his facts. You know, it's really strange to me. Like, is he present? Does he see them all the time? It's, they're all trying to figure it out. It's what I'm getting. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like Ken is trying to figure this out the best way he knows how. And at the same time, he's trusting Debbie implicitly. He doesn't believe it's her. Sometimes, you know, like there was heirs of it and she would get really mad and say, it's not fucking me, you know, all mad. But here we go. The first message was received that night while Debbie was asleep downstairs. It appeared that we didn't have to go out at all. Debbie was worried that if she didn't go out, people would think it was her. I told her not to be so childish. And another row followed. To get out of the way, I took the message to Peter for his views on it. Peter was just so enthusiastic that at times it was embarrassing. And that's referring to the English professor. Again, that sees these errors, but constantly gets excited every time there's a new message. And here, again, we have Debbie by herself with it, you know. Once again. See, there's some more words of wisdom. I'm trying to figure out where I am in the story here. Sorry. So here's an example of Peter obviously seeing something happen in physically seeing Peter, who was the English professor. Somehow Lucas was able to see him there. He said, Lucas Weynman had evidently seen Peter at the cottage. Peter was about 50 years old. Lucas too, it would seem. There was one difference about this message compared with the other recent ones. The file name was a little odd. I had used PTR as a name, but it had been changed to TRP during my sleep. Funny, I didn't hear anything. In moving from one file to another, the disk drive makes a whoring noise. Changing the file name would mean using the disk drive. And the computer makes a beep noise if one makes a mistake. So he's trying to find reasons why it couldn't possibly be anything but paranormal there. Sure. Yeah. Let's see. A love poem to a beautiful girl. So this is the love poem that was written after Debbie saw him in the dream. Sure. And I would read it, but it makes no sense. Right, yeah. It is written kind of strange. I will say, if you are legitimately experiencing this, having a dream about it isn't so far fetched. I will say that. Sure. However, this is one person's story now it seems like. It seems like that's where it keeps going. Yeah. And at one point Lucas gets knocked off a horse and is injured. And another person has to come to his, whatever it is that he's speaking into at this point, they haven't really said, but basically he's speaking into, can't remember what he calls it, it's something stupid. But it's basically the light box that he speaks into. He speaks and it types for him. So his friend apparently was in on this and knew how to use it and wrote the letter form that he had fallen off a horse and that Lucas, Wayne Munn's true name is not Lucas. Oh. Which is the first time that they're kind of told that this is what it is. It says, my good man, I have heard of your Griffin's lines and wondrous possessions. And it is too fantastic to understand your people are unnatural, although I have no dread. You're a phantasm of great powers. Is my theory that you are in the future. So you can tell when the king ends his reign and who is take the crown. How do you cure the people of your time? Is the computer yours pray? So he's even using words like computer, whereas when Lucas was typing, he would call them commuters. Oh. So his friend knows computer, but Lucas didn't, which is real interesting, you know. The fashion of our time is such that I will not give my own name nor Lucas's true description in name. So that's the first time they have an idea that Lucas's name might not be his real name. So if it's not Lucas, who was it? What were the controls used to make sure there was no human interference? And here's where we have the controls. So here's how they, this is here where they really tried to dial it down. So they talk about meeting up with Mr. John Stiles. Mr. John Stiles is from the PSR. The, or I'm sorry, the SPR, the Society for Psychological Research in England. Famous for working with the Enfield Poltergeist case, all the other cases around England. Yeah, they go back to the 1800s in the spiritual movement. They were kind of big on debunking mediums at the time. I was talking about them in my ghost episode on the other channel a little while back. Yeah, and of course, they were big names involved. And to be honest, the Society for Psychological Research, even though they did get a little bit involved, they didn't believe any of it. They thought it was a hoax. They thought it was a genuine hoax. So it says here, later that week, of Mr. John Stiles rang me at my home. He was, he said, the research liaison officer for the Society of Psychological Research. He had a very academic, very correct manner, yet he seemed relaxed and at ease with himself. I was trying hard not to sound silly or a crackpot. It is difficult to talk to strangers. I filled them in on the background and he moved quickly on these three theories. Firstly, the hoax. The usual schedule of culprits emerged, Debbie and myself top of the list. Secondly, he thought one of us might be causing it unconsciously. This was something which deserved the serious consideration. Although the apparent authenticity of Lucas's language militated against it somewhat. However, John Stiles didn't see much of interest in the language. This irked me, but he had only a snippet or two to go on and can seem quite inauthentic on casual inspection. Thirdly, he introduced the notion of mental interference with computers, although this usually resulted in nonsense or merely screen failure or equipment failure. There was, he said, only something, something. He gave no further clues. And the Society for Psychological Research ended up saying that it was probably someone using radio frequency to hack them. Which isn't really the best explanation looking back at the time and the technology we know that wasn't really something that could have been done. Not possible, but an interesting idea. And nonetheless, they knew that it was probably not a ghost, you know. I do like that the RSPK kind of came on me. I didn't say it like that, but essentially it's you creating it with your mind or creating a poltergeist with your mind, which is I think something they still maintain. I think that's still kind of their MO at the SPR. Yeah, it is. And it says, to interest the SPR, we would need to eliminate the first two possibilities. John Stiles suggested putting locks on all the relevant doors and windows, depositing the keys with the bank while the computer was left on and waiting. I didn't take up this suggestion, I'm afraid. I said we could not afford to be without access to the kitchen during building work, nor did I want to risk not being able to respond to Lucas during the sealed period. He might think us gone and stop his communication. Far better, I thought we could keep it all going and accumulate material. If there was a hoax, it would show eventually, so. Okay, I'm developing a theory of my own now, but do go on. It's getting interesting. So here's one of the main arguments of it not being Debbie. In the book, it says Debbie finally got around to inviting her mother and brother down, which although hardly scientific would be a useful start, the conditions were to be as close as usual or to the usual successful pattern as possible. The computer sat on a table by the refrigerator in the kitchen. A short greeting or message from us would be put on the screen. Normally this was all there would be on this particular file we were using. The computer would be left alone. The door to the kitchen would be closed. If Deb was staying in the cottage, she would sit in front of the fire very quietly. Perhaps she would fall asleep. Anything from a half an hour to a couple of hours later, she would open the door and check beneath the message by scrolling the screen with the cursor keys. If the computer made an infuriating beep, the file was not opened beyond the particular, something indicated. So it was Debbie checking on it. Deb is checking on it. It says in the middle of the night. It looks for any new file names which might indicate new communication. Lastly, the existing files would have to be checked for additions. Lucas had been known to use existing files and tag something on further down or indeed wherever. On this particular occasion, I left a message asking Lucas for some information on Thomas Moore. Then I went to Dave Lovell's house for the evening, deliberately keeping away. As I have said, the conditions weren't scientific, but I should like to quote some notes made by Debbie's mama. Oh, mommy? Here's what mommy said. My son and I arrived at Meadow Cottage approximately 7.45 PM on April 5th, 1985. A few minutes later, a friend of Mr. Webster called at the front door for something. After a few words were exchanged between my daughter and the caller, he left. We three, my daughter, Debbie, my son and myself went into the kitchen. We checked the windows and doors in the kitchen in the bathroom. The back door was locked with the chain on the inside. The windows were closed, including the skylights, though we did not have time to check if they were locked. We then gave our attention to the computer. All previous entries on the disk were inspected. Debbie typed a few lines on the screen and as far as we knew, there was nothing entered after that. And then at 8.03, they went to the living room, closed the door to the kitchen behind us. I knew the light had been left on inside the kitchen. We settled down quietly, reading or writing occasionally speaking. I was not listening intently for noises. This was unnecessary as we were very quiet ourselves, but I did hear one or two noises which appeared to come from the kitchen. The sort of a noise a mouse might make. I felt cold at times. At one stage was shivering. We all kept our coats on as there was no fire in the horror. And they go back in at nine. Debbie left to wait on one of the keys to scroll the screen because she needed to go to the bathroom and there did not appear to be anything entering the file since he left last. After a minute, we were startled by a high pitch noise coming from the computer. This indicated to Debbie, I believe, that something had been entered. Note it indicates the cursor has reached the bottom of the file. She simply came to the computer for rather the monitor. And we all saw a new entry displayed starting with the poem. We were short of time and I was unable to understand all that was entered at the time, but did manage to read and understand two lines when we left the cottage. And it's a text of the message doesn't really matter to me. Sure. And the story goes on. There are people from the future that call themselves 2109. We're not sure if that's a year or they're just from the future and that's their name. But none of that really matters to me either. No, it's more of the same, essentially. It's just with different window dressing. Yeah, it's more of the same. It's people promising and predictions or confirming, denying certain questions and they're kind of off, but just enough to where you can kind of make it fit yourself. I mean, it turns out his name is Thomas Hardin, which the school that they work at was Hardin School and his last name fits. There's all kinds of crazy attachments, but again, I got this far in and as I read how their stringent stuff was a stringent protocol here. Yeah, Debbie was left with stuff. It was her family we're trusting. Debbie's always there. It's writing love letters to Debbie. It admires Debbie. Debbie's 19. I start using some critical thinking here. Sure. Right, so like this, for example, these notes by Debbie's mom are a story of a story. Yes. You're reading by one of the principal witnesses. Yes. I mean, it's as good as made up, essentially. But as we were pointing out kind of as the story was going, there were a lot of weird little red flags. First of all, like I mentioned the initials. Yes. First message being like, who for art though? Yeah. Who is broken into my home? Yes. Yeah, that's what he said. And then the main witness going out to the car. Or totally leaving to a whole other house or going to a bar. Yeah. Yeah. So pretty strange, pretty strange stuff. Debbie's mom hears stuff in the kitchen but doesn't go look. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean. Sure. If that even happened. If mommy was even there. Yeah. And the kicker is, like I said earlier, Debbie is still the only one talking about this. And I was really, like before I made it to this section, I was really looking forward to joining that Facebook group and talking to her and interacting with her. Yeah. And frankly, I would probably rather interact with someone like Angela and probably get more out of it because this is really, really bad. Yeah. Really? I mean, that sounds pretty similar. Actually, my understanding of, is it Anjali? Is it Anjali? I think because there's an N.Y. over the N. Amen. I steered clear of her the entire time. This is an interesting story. And like you mentioned at the beginning, this was covered by astonishing legends, an assaultion nerd, the Y-Files and stuff like that. I don't, I've never heard this theory that it was solely Debbie. I don't think they touch on that. It's just it breaks my heart. Like no one stopped and we're like, wait a minute, wait a minute, instead of like carrying this on and making it, you know, ooh, maybe. No, there's no reason to do that. This is just shenanigans. Right. So shenanigans of a young lady. It makes me wonder about how many other mysterious stories we know that just have only been glanced over. Yeah. This reminds me of a story from my skeptical magazine days where we mostly engaged with ghost hunters and that kind of like pie slice of the paranormal. This was a group, I couldn't tell you where they're from. They had an acronym as is customary, much like taps. Yes. They were goners. Oh, nice. How'd they fit that one in? They had a good ring to it. This was earlier Facebook time. I want to say that this was probably 2012. They were making the rounds everywhere, posting the whole, they got their hands on the Holy Grail of ghost hunting, which is a photo or video of a full body apparition. I think you know that, the Holy Grail. But now they didn't catch this themselves. It was taken from, it was still from a CCTV of a restaurant, I think that they investigated. Now they started posting this long. Me and my buddies, Kenny Biddle, who writes for Skeptical Enquirer now, I believe, Bobby Nelson, we co-founded the Bent Spoon back at the time. Oh, and Jason Corbis. We saw this thing and recognized it immediately because it was a still from a CCTV of this restaurant, but superimposed over it was the Bachelor, the Madonna of Bachelor's Grove. If you Google top 10 ghost photos, it will be in there. It's one of the top 10, it's one of the ones, everyone knows the brown lady coming down the stairs or the other one where it's going up the stair railing and it looks like a fire in this one. Can you do that again? Yeah, it might even be top five. Very blatantly obvious and we called this out to them. I don't remember if it was Jason Corbis or Kenny Biddle who wrote the article about it and contacted them, but they're like, look man, like you guys are getting played. This is one of the most common ghost photos you can come up with. You guys are ghost hunters. This is your, if not hobby, but your passion. They said, well, we don't have time to sit around and read books and research. We're out there investigating, which I thought was... That is a beautiful answer. That's like... Fucking funny. Yeah, that's like a witness citizen type thing. That's the response I got from that dude. I see this so often and now in the UFO community, now that I'm more engaged with them, that they don't know the history. They don't know anything beyond surface level of this UFO stuff, but they're like, live and breathe and shit post on Twitter about UFOs all day, every day. Yes. What's occupying your time and your thoughts? When this is your passion and you don't look beyond the surface, you don't go beyond page two or you only look... I mean, they're not even looking at picture books apparently. Apparently not. I mean, you know the Madonna of Bachelor's Girls, right? Yes. Like the woman in profile sitting on a grave. Very famous one, yes. Yeah. That was just mind blowing to me. But I mean, we see this stuff now and we see current mystery hosts just shoveling these stories, these campfire stories, not the full version. They're not detailed in any way. Jeremy Corbell, George Knapp, Bob Lazarus. They're slinging the mystery, not what happened. So when people like us come along, we're like, oh, this one's really cool. I remember this from sightings back in the day and you look at it and man, it's just a pile of shit. Yeah, disappointing as hell. Sort of. I've come to a point where it used to make me mad and I think you were talking about being frustrated about it earlier. It's almost kind of satisfying to me now. You can just check that one off. That is what I mean. Like you know. I know. It's intellectually satisfying. People watching know now. Check that one off, there's a million more. Every day, people are encountering things that they don't understand and whether that's their own fault or because it's something novel, that's for us to find out if it's well observed and recorded. Yeah. But I don't know. I think even as a skeptic, I'm less cynical as I used to be. I still think there's plenty of room for weird crap. Yeah, oh yeah. And I think people do see weird crap and I think people are going to continue seeing weird things for all time and that just means more weird mysteries that we get to look at. So that's fine. And then when we solve them, we check them off and move on to the next one because there's a billion. I love being inspired by mysteries and I felt like this one, because I granted like, of course, I was thinking it was probably a frickin' hoax, but at the same time, I was like, wow, this isn't totally debunked like most of Marshall. Let's give it a try, but I'm rather disappointed in some of the people who came before me that never mentioned how bad the controls were on these trials. Well, there's a lot of interesting aspects to the case. Like I said, the kind of the proto RSPK poltergeist stuff gets brought up. Also, and I may have mentioned this in the last episode, but we got a different audience tonight. All of the kind of like innovation in both ghost hunting and parapsychology comes and rides on the tail of new technology. Yes. If you think about spiritualism and where ghost hunting and mediumship and seances where all that all started was with the Fox sisters back in the 1800s, cracking their joints, claiming that they were talking to a spirit named Mr. Splitfoot. However, if you kind of break that down and think about it just a couple of years prior, the public unveiling of the telegram happened and it was becoming a popular device. So people were talking over great distances through the ether as they understood at the time in Morse code. Yes. All these spirits began kind of communicating with us. We look at this case, computers are very new. We don't quite understand. Exactly, 85. Especially given by what the SPR's suggestion of radio is hacking into a computer. Yeah. I mean, most people, yeah, the telephone. Yes, Thomas Edison, that may have been a rumor and a myth and kind of exaggerated a little bit, but he did say if they produce an effect subtle enough that it can be read by interestments then we can communicate with them. So I think that's kind of the impetus of Thomas Edison working on a spirit phone. But yeah, all these new methods of speaking with the dead seem to ride the coattails of new emergent technology. And in this case, it's just another example of that happening. Same thing with like recording devices and we have EVPs and stuff like that. So I mean, like it checks a lot of interesting boxes even if this case is a hoax, which is like really what it sounds like. Yeah, yeah. I think probably perpetrated by Debbie and the guy who was 29 or 49. Yeah. When she was 49 when she was 19. I think it was a hoax perpetrated by the both of them. Yeah. Yes, by the sound of it. But maybe she wanted a little more attention. It's got a lot of interesting facets to it. And it's got that like a little bit of kind of early ghost hunter, ghostbusters, parapsychology kind of stuff going on, which I always love. Yeah, that's some of my favorite too. So I almost didn't even, after I got to that point, I didn't really want to continue. I was just like so mad at it. But hopefully in the next few weeks, someone posted, I believe, on your Twitter account about a new Zodiac suspect. Oh, yeah. I've really got to brush up on Zodiac. I mean, I've studied Zodiac since I was a kid and know it inside out. And to be honest, when I initially saw that post, I responded immediately. I was like, OK. There's been so many Zodiac aspects that just based on nothing at all. It's usually my daddy's Zodiac. And I actually delved in. I bought the books from this person. His name's Jarrett Kobach. And be reading them. And we're going to try to delve into this new suspect, because I think that there is definitely at least enough to merit reading into this. Because I've never had my interest be in the Zodiac suspect. And I'm really interested in this guy. I'm moderately familiar with the Zodiac case. I'll brush up in the time. I think we should do, yeah, we could dedicate a bunch of time to the Zodiac. And yeah, since we are speaking to kind of a different audience tonight, and this is our pseudo backdoor pilot. It's not always UFOs or ghosts and stuff. It's weird crap, true crime. Bought UFOs and ghosts for sure. Yeah. Anything freaking weird, like unsolved murders, unsolved mistresses. Disappearances. I almost did Granger-Taylor today. Then I kind of wanted to get that old stuff I'd cut together for Dexter out there. Well, I'll cover him sometime. Do you know who that is? No. Canadian fellow who's always like building and tinkering. He made this like UFO thing outside of his parents' house that he went and lived in. But then he eventually started becoming convinced that he was receiving messages from aliens, which is a very familiar thing to do all the time. And he wrote this note to his parents, saying like, I'm off to leave with the visitors. We're waiting for a rainy night, so it'll cloak the UFO. They get in and take off, take my possessions, read my will for further guidance, but I won't be needing them anymore. Goodbye. And the dude just vanished. There's a movie that came out recently. I can't remember the name, but it is that exact story. This chick like goes out with her brother in the desert and he's all crazy, saying he's gonna build a UFO or it's coming from a worm or whatever. And then they're filming it. It's like one of those hidden, not hidden video, but you know, film footage type things. But yeah, it's an amazing movie. It's absolutely amazing, but it's that same story. Really? Yeah. It is based on that. I won't get into that too much more because I might revisit that. It's a cool case. Yeah, sounds like it. But things like that too. Yes. So I hope that kind of sells it to bring some of you guys over to the other channel. I mean, we can obviously talk cannabis stuff on this show too. Yeah, I don't know too much. Yeah, no, but he does like it. I do like, yeah, I just smoke it all day every day, but I don't know what it is. I think it's some kind of plant. Some kind of plant that gets me. All good, yeah. But yeah, that kind of wraps up our thoughts on Dexter and Dodelston, Doodletown. Doodletown, I think that about covers it. So yeah, thank you everyone from the Breeders Syndicate crowd that stayed and watched today. Like I said, this is gonna be like a one-time thing. We wanted to come over here, let people get a taste of the invisible residence since there's like, it's a brand new channel and everything. We're gonna get everybody interested in it. If you're interested, follow the invisible residence on YouTube. We have our own thing. So go there, subscribe. Handle up there. And yeah, it's Tuesday nights at 6 p.m. Pacific, 9 p.m. Eastern, every Tuesday live. We usually go about an hour. We're coming up an hour an hour now. Yeah. And it's not always the same format. It's not always two stories, but it could be, I don't know. It's brand new, man. This is episode four, yeah, four. But that kind of thing, I do come from a kind of a paranormal and UFO background, which is actually how I met Matthew. But I've dealt into some of the crimes and disappearances and stuff like that, you know, a little bit. UFOs are obviously my forte right now, but I know a few good stories. Yeah, I think we'll be having fun with this. Yeah. All right. Let's wrap this shit up. Oh, wait, go ahead. Check out theInvisibleNightSchool.com and Google that, or search that on YouTube, because we got a channel where we do live streams, every once in a while, too. I think we might be doing one tomorrow night about atmospheric plasma. Oh, wow. Yeah, man, that's not my wheelhouse. Is learning gonna be there? Yeah, yeah, Moran fucking learner's gonna be there. I mean, to be perfectly frank and honest, I'm sure he'll be lurking in the chat, like he usually does, and I will smell him from a mile away like I always do. Yeah, almost do. But yeah, check that out. Go check out my article on Hudson Valley if you're interested. Another flap, as I put it, in the 80s over New York of a big boomerang craft that turned out to be a plane's information, light plane's sesamas. Jesus. Yeah, Jesus, UFO Jesus Christ. All right, man, I'll see you later. All right, thank you, everyone, and thank you, Nick, for showing up, and we're gonna rock it out like this.